| Got Pink? | 03-24-2005 09:50 PM |
Which Coilovers for STU/ESP 05 STi?
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Hey,
I am looking to purchase a nice set of double adjustable coilovers for my 05 STi primarily to run in STU this season and probably ESP next season am having trouble finding anything currently available. The car is currently daily driven but I also have a miata and will most likely drive it most of the summer and probably swap my autox setup off in late fall so I can enjoy winter in the STi. I do plan on driving to events but as a mountain biker I can handle a rough ride on the street.
So far I have looked at:
KW V3 -has an 04 STI specific kit but 'has not tested 05 fitment' yet
Moton Clubsport- coming out for WRX/04STi soon and eventually 05STi though very expensive
Advance Design- have shipped a couple sets but 'still in development' when i called them today.
others available but not going to be quick to get most likely and also $$$$
Leda
Penske
Koni
Any ideas or potential other options? I really wanted to get something soon that I could test and tune and run locally to be ready for my first national tour in July in Mass. But since nothing is available and since I can co drive an Elise in SS, I guess I can wait for the best option and give up getting an early start on car development.
I am looking to purchase a nice set of double adjustable coilovers for my 05 STi primarily to run in STU this season and probably ESP next season am having trouble finding anything currently available. The car is currently daily driven but I also have a miata and will most likely drive it most of the summer and probably swap my autox setup off in late fall so I can enjoy winter in the STi. I do plan on driving to events but as a mountain biker I can handle a rough ride on the street.
So far I have looked at:
KW V3 -has an 04 STI specific kit but 'has not tested 05 fitment' yet
Moton Clubsport- coming out for WRX/04STi soon and eventually 05STi though very expensive
Advance Design- have shipped a couple sets but 'still in development' when i called them today.
others available but not going to be quick to get most likely and also $$$$
Leda
Penske
Koni
Any ideas or potential other options? I really wanted to get something soon that I could test and tune and run locally to be ready for my first national tour in July in Mass. But since nothing is available and since I can co drive an Elise in SS, I guess I can wait for the best option and give up getting an early start on car development.
| rautox | 03-25-2005 08:08 AM |
Lots of info via search. But, you might take a look at what tein has to offer. Various flavors have won nationals over the last few years. So, they work ok ;)
| Scoobie Doogie | 03-25-2005 08:58 AM |
Koni doesn't have anything yet. Out of all the dampers the Moton's are #1 or #2 in control and adjustability. Talk to Lee Piccone about the Motons, he has them on his BSP BMW M3. Penske's are great but VERY expensive.
As far as something right now...You'd have to get a set of Teins or KW's and take them to a machine shop and have the lower arm brackets widened to fit the 05 STi's hub. You should also contact 944 Turbo Guy at Race Comp Engineering and see what he can find for you. Have the vendors hunt something down for you. That's what they do!
Dave M.
As far as something right now...You'd have to get a set of Teins or KW's and take them to a machine shop and have the lower arm brackets widened to fit the 05 STi's hub. You should also contact 944 Turbo Guy at Race Comp Engineering and see what he can find for you. Have the vendors hunt something down for you. That's what they do!
Dave M.
| Draken | 03-25-2005 09:13 AM |
I think it is quite funny how the Motons are now the greatest shock in the world for an STi/WRX because their picture have been posted all over motorsports and suspension forum. Yet, not one person has actually used them in this application.
Dig up an old copy of GRM and review the shock test they did on the D-stock 330 BMW with Bob Tunell driving. High $ does not equal best performance, neccessarily.
As far as most experience, talk with Joel about his experience with Advanced Design. Hoppe also had a set, but Miranda confiscated them so we won't have any useful data on those unfortunately.
Good luck!
Chris H.
'04 with revalved Tein Flex
Dig up an old copy of GRM and review the shock test they did on the D-stock 330 BMW with Bob Tunell driving. High $ does not equal best performance, neccessarily.
As far as most experience, talk with Joel about his experience with Advanced Design. Hoppe also had a set, but Miranda confiscated them so we won't have any useful data on those unfortunately.
Good luck!
Chris H.
'04 with revalved Tein Flex
| TheWRX | 03-25-2005 09:33 AM |
[QUOTE=Scoobie Doogie]Penske's are great but VERY expensive.[/QUOTE]
From what I remember, double adjustables are around $750/corner. Motons are more expensive.
I don't think the Tein double adjustable coilovers (RS) are available for the STi. Or even the WRX.
From what I remember, double adjustables are around $750/corner. Motons are more expensive.
I don't think the Tein double adjustable coilovers (RS) are available for the STi. Or even the WRX.
| omahasubaru | 03-25-2005 09:57 AM |
[url=http://www.zzyzxmotorsports.com]Zzyzx Motorsports[/url]
| AUTOwrXER | 03-25-2005 10:01 AM |
Tom and I are the two that have been involved in the "development" of the Advanced Design product. They are getting much closer to being great out of the box than when I first put them on the car. The fitment is no longer an issue, and now we are working on fine tuning (i.e. droop travel, noise, etc.). I have worked with Jay Morris and Ali mostly, and they have been very helpful despite the massive workload they are trying to handle. I have every confidence that they will eventually have a very good product for competition use, though they may be a bit loud for the everyday driver (who doesn't need double-adjustable shocks anyway).
For the money, I don't think you'll find a better shock than AD. IMO, the Moton, Penske, JRZ, and Ohlins shocks are incrementally better, but they are too much money. If you are willing to spend more, than those may be good options for you, but for me there is always more time left in my driving performance than between the $4500 shocks and the $2500 set. If you are willing to drop the cash, don't do it at the expense of fresh tires, as that is much more important.
If you were willing to spend $4000+ on the coilovers, my first call would be to JRZ to see what they are up to. Now that the car is in T2, I imagine there are some race teams out there asking the same questions...
For the money, I don't think you'll find a better shock than AD. IMO, the Moton, Penske, JRZ, and Ohlins shocks are incrementally better, but they are too much money. If you are willing to spend more, than those may be good options for you, but for me there is always more time left in my driving performance than between the $4500 shocks and the $2500 set. If you are willing to drop the cash, don't do it at the expense of fresh tires, as that is much more important.
If you were willing to spend $4000+ on the coilovers, my first call would be to JRZ to see what they are up to. Now that the car is in T2, I imagine there are some race teams out there asking the same questions...
| Scoobie Doogie | 03-25-2005 10:29 AM |
Nobody said the Motons were the best app for the STi, you're making a generalization. I'm not a newbie autocrosser Chris. I do understand your reaction though, we do have a tendency to band-wagon the new stuff. I apologise if I came across the wrong way. My interest in the Motons comes from talking with drivers who actually run them on other cars and what I read on the SCCA forums and other sites. Plus I am interested in them myself for my 04 wagon.
I have read the copy of the GRM article on the damper testing on the BMW and that was for a stock suspension. You are correct that expensive does not always = the best. With heavier springs the more adjustable Moton damper will make more of a difference. That said, Koni's are absolutely the best bang for the buck on a stock suspension. Just like the article mentioned. Another option is Koni's with Ground controls. Very good but still pricey once you have them made into DA's.
I would like to see some info on the Advance Designs as well. Have they been setup a a shock dyno yet and posted in the suspension forum?
The WRX-
I thought the Penske's were over a grand a corner. My bad if I am wrong. Have your run the Elise in competition yet? Drool.... I want one.
Dave
I have read the copy of the GRM article on the damper testing on the BMW and that was for a stock suspension. You are correct that expensive does not always = the best. With heavier springs the more adjustable Moton damper will make more of a difference. That said, Koni's are absolutely the best bang for the buck on a stock suspension. Just like the article mentioned. Another option is Koni's with Ground controls. Very good but still pricey once you have them made into DA's.
I would like to see some info on the Advance Designs as well. Have they been setup a a shock dyno yet and posted in the suspension forum?
The WRX-
I thought the Penske's were over a grand a corner. My bad if I am wrong. Have your run the Elise in competition yet? Drool.... I want one.
Dave
| ChrisW | 03-25-2005 10:49 AM |
careful on what you buy.
You have a daily driver. The uber expensive penske, moton, and AD designs are primarily a racing strut. This does not imply that these struts won't have a nice ride, they probably will, but the maintenance schedule will be intolerable for a daily driver.
I would look into Ohlins Road & track struts. I have them on my EVO right now, Navid (ESP winner in SD) ran them for the pro-solo and national tour and really liked them to the point where he is questioning his moton purchase... Just a little food for thought.
I also discovered that these Ohlins are not made in Japan, they are made in North Carolina by the same Ohlin division that built the shocks for the Nascar teams before they changed the shock rules.
Other coilovers I would recommend would be the DMS 50 tarmac (street length)
good luck!
You have a daily driver. The uber expensive penske, moton, and AD designs are primarily a racing strut. This does not imply that these struts won't have a nice ride, they probably will, but the maintenance schedule will be intolerable for a daily driver.
I would look into Ohlins Road & track struts. I have them on my EVO right now, Navid (ESP winner in SD) ran them for the pro-solo and national tour and really liked them to the point where he is questioning his moton purchase... Just a little food for thought.
I also discovered that these Ohlins are not made in Japan, they are made in North Carolina by the same Ohlin division that built the shocks for the Nascar teams before they changed the shock rules.
Other coilovers I would recommend would be the DMS 50 tarmac (street length)
good luck!
| Draken | 03-25-2005 10:50 AM |
Dave---
I'm sorry. You're right, my statement was a generalization. Absoultely not directed towards you personally. My appologies.
IMO...there is no shock/strut that is "the must have" for a STU/ESP STi yet. There simply isn't enough development on them. Just because Penske. JRZ, Moton etc. make an application, does not mean it has been developed for STU/ESP autocross application. I agree...having a broad range of adjustment is very helpful, and can make it easier to find the sweet spot. I found my Teins to be very close, and after lots of thinking about my setup, what i intended to do in the future, I had to make a few small valving changes, because i did not have a higher dollar double adjustable unit. If i end up revalving a bunch of times, then i'll eventually spend as much money as the Advanced design setup. But a year or so ago, I didn't have that option, and knew I did not have the time to develop a set of new shocks like Joel and Hoppe have. As it stood, I barely had three runs on the car before nationals.
I'm going for more of a "road race play day" avenue this year, instead of national level autocross. So I won't be able to add any value, but really look forward to seeing what Joel/Hoppe etc., develop. I've already benefited from some of the thinking that Joel has mentoned on other threads (confirming some of my own thoughts) and really like my new huge front bar. Can't wait to get out on track to test n tune.
Chris H.
I'm sorry. You're right, my statement was a generalization. Absoultely not directed towards you personally. My appologies.
IMO...there is no shock/strut that is "the must have" for a STU/ESP STi yet. There simply isn't enough development on them. Just because Penske. JRZ, Moton etc. make an application, does not mean it has been developed for STU/ESP autocross application. I agree...having a broad range of adjustment is very helpful, and can make it easier to find the sweet spot. I found my Teins to be very close, and after lots of thinking about my setup, what i intended to do in the future, I had to make a few small valving changes, because i did not have a higher dollar double adjustable unit. If i end up revalving a bunch of times, then i'll eventually spend as much money as the Advanced design setup. But a year or so ago, I didn't have that option, and knew I did not have the time to develop a set of new shocks like Joel and Hoppe have. As it stood, I barely had three runs on the car before nationals.
I'm going for more of a "road race play day" avenue this year, instead of national level autocross. So I won't be able to add any value, but really look forward to seeing what Joel/Hoppe etc., develop. I've already benefited from some of the thinking that Joel has mentoned on other threads (confirming some of my own thoughts) and really like my new huge front bar. Can't wait to get out on track to test n tune.
Chris H.
| Got Pink? | 03-25-2005 12:09 PM |
Thanks for all the information so far guys!
I do NOT want to spend over 2500 but was just listing all the options available in case the most expensive ones were really that much better.
Originally I was going to get the KW V3's but since they do not have an 05 STi application yet and I want dampers now, I started looking for others. The KW's are supposed to be very streetable with a wide range of both adjustments. So basically its between waiting for the KW's or Advance Designs. Joel by loud for street use what do you mean? Is most of the noise from running all metal camber plates front and rear? I think Tom was posting about putting a polyurethane layer between them and the car to help with that. I really am looking for the ultimate setup that will be competitive and streetable as the same time but realize that there are compromises involved. How harsh is the ride? Supposedly good dampers are not harsh even with stiff springs they are firm but not harsh. How often do the Advance Designs need to be rebuilt? Supposedly they are self rebuildable/revalvable but I don't know how involved that is but I have rebuilt mountain bike shocks before many times. When I called Ground Control they seemed hesistant to sell me the setup now so I guess I will need to find out how long it will be for them to be ready to sell them to me and others. The cars primary focus is autox but I enjoy driving it daily too much to stop.
The advance designs do seem like a good deal at only 400/damper plus 120/housing. But does that mean I also need to add 400 for the springs/perches or is that included in the 120/housing?
Joel did you get the new top mount gc camber plates and how do you like them? If i go with ground control/advance design i will likely get them also.
The zzyzx coilovers are just a housing/spring perch setup that require AD or Koni dampers so what advantage do they have over the housings that ground control sells for the advance designs? Better geometry or tire clearance? Do they have an 05 STi fitment yet?
Finally have to got to test the new huge front bar with your setup and what did you think of it? I am waiting until I decide on coilovers to get the right bars to match them but if you have tested it and it works I will order it right now.
Thanks for all the advice so far,
Nate
I do NOT want to spend over 2500 but was just listing all the options available in case the most expensive ones were really that much better.
Originally I was going to get the KW V3's but since they do not have an 05 STi application yet and I want dampers now, I started looking for others. The KW's are supposed to be very streetable with a wide range of both adjustments. So basically its between waiting for the KW's or Advance Designs. Joel by loud for street use what do you mean? Is most of the noise from running all metal camber plates front and rear? I think Tom was posting about putting a polyurethane layer between them and the car to help with that. I really am looking for the ultimate setup that will be competitive and streetable as the same time but realize that there are compromises involved. How harsh is the ride? Supposedly good dampers are not harsh even with stiff springs they are firm but not harsh. How often do the Advance Designs need to be rebuilt? Supposedly they are self rebuildable/revalvable but I don't know how involved that is but I have rebuilt mountain bike shocks before many times. When I called Ground Control they seemed hesistant to sell me the setup now so I guess I will need to find out how long it will be for them to be ready to sell them to me and others. The cars primary focus is autox but I enjoy driving it daily too much to stop.
The advance designs do seem like a good deal at only 400/damper plus 120/housing. But does that mean I also need to add 400 for the springs/perches or is that included in the 120/housing?
Joel did you get the new top mount gc camber plates and how do you like them? If i go with ground control/advance design i will likely get them also.
The zzyzx coilovers are just a housing/spring perch setup that require AD or Koni dampers so what advantage do they have over the housings that ground control sells for the advance designs? Better geometry or tire clearance? Do they have an 05 STi fitment yet?
Finally have to got to test the new huge front bar with your setup and what did you think of it? I am waiting until I decide on coilovers to get the right bars to match them but if you have tested it and it works I will order it right now.
Thanks for all the advice so far,
Nate
| AUTOwrXER | 03-25-2005 02:45 PM |
[QUOTE=Scoobie Doogie]I have read the copy of the GRM article on the damper testing on the BMW and that was for a stock suspension. You are correct that expensive does not always = the best. With heavier springs the more adjustable Moton damper will make more of a difference.
Dave[/QUOTE]
Actually, IMO the shocks make a bigger difference in stock classes were your ability to change things is very limited. The biggest "X" factor in the GRM test is that the valving of the Motons was completely off. Tunnel mentioned that in the article, and it skewed the results. Bob does appreciate the difference that the Motons make, and he has built a number of cars (some of which are his own) using them. Granted, those folks are spending more than I am to build their cars, but Bob's actions (IMO) are more relevant than the GRM test with incorrectly valved Motons.
Dave[/QUOTE]
Actually, IMO the shocks make a bigger difference in stock classes were your ability to change things is very limited. The biggest "X" factor in the GRM test is that the valving of the Motons was completely off. Tunnel mentioned that in the article, and it skewed the results. Bob does appreciate the difference that the Motons make, and he has built a number of cars (some of which are his own) using them. Granted, those folks are spending more than I am to build their cars, but Bob's actions (IMO) are more relevant than the GRM test with incorrectly valved Motons.
| AUTOwrXER | 03-25-2005 03:09 PM |
[QUOTE=Got Pink?]Thanks for all the information so far guys!
I do NOT want to spend over 2500 but was just listing all the options available in case the most expensive ones were really that much better.
Originally I was going to get the KW V3's but since they do not have an 05 STi application yet and I want dampers now, I started looking for others. The KW's are supposed to be very streetable with a wide range of both adjustments. So basically its between waiting for the KW's or Advance Designs. Joel by loud for street use what do you mean? Is most of the noise from running all metal camber plates front and rear? I think Tom was posting about putting a polyurethane layer between them and the car to help with that. I really am looking for the ultimate setup that will be competitive and streetable as the same time but realize that there are compromises involved. How harsh is the ride? Supposedly good dampers are not harsh even with stiff springs they are firm but not harsh. How often do the Advance Designs need to be rebuilt? Supposedly they are self rebuildable/revalvable but I don't know how involved that is but I have rebuilt mountain bike shocks before many times. When I called Ground Control they seemed hesistant to sell me the setup now so I guess I will need to find out how long it will be for them to be ready to sell them to me and others. The cars primary focus is autox but I enjoy driving it daily too much to stop.
The advance designs do seem like a good deal at only 400/damper plus 120/housing. But does that mean I also need to add 400 for the springs/perches or is that included in the 120/housing?
Joel did you get the new top mount gc camber plates and how do you like them? If i go with ground control/advance design i will likely get them also.
The zzyzx coilovers are just a housing/spring perch setup that require AD or Koni dampers so what advantage do they have over the housings that ground control sells for the advance designs? Better geometry or tire clearance? Do they have an 05 STi fitment yet?
Finally have to got to test the new huge front bar with your setup and what did you think of it? I am waiting until I decide on coilovers to get the right bars to match them but if you have tested it and it works I will order it right now.
Thanks for all the advice so far,
Nate[/QUOTE]
Wow. Lots of questions. I'll try to answer them in order:
1) Noise: I'm not sure where it all comes from, but they do make a lot of clanging. More than I would want in an everyday driver (which is not the case with my car, hence the AC removal, stereo removal, etc.). We cut down some of the noise with a redesigned spring perch. I'm not sure where Tom was planning to use the urethane, but reducing noise was it's intent. Some of the noise will come from the fact that everything is metal-to-metal contact, and the camber plates are an open design (particularly important in the rear, which is in the passenger compartment).
2) Harshness: This is a very subjective question, as different people like different things. Apparently when you turn old you like the softly sprung and nearly undamped characteristics of a Buick. To most people, shocks with firm compresion valving fell "harsh". Luckily, a well setup autocross car does not need much compression valving, but should be heavier than normal in rebound. The Advanced Designs are not developed to the point where there is a stock damping curve. Mine have been valved specifically for the spring rates that I am running, and they work very well for autocross. Regardless, with the spring rates I am using the car does not exactly absorb bumps in the road. That is beyond the shock characteristics.
3) Durability: I am hoping to get 2 years out of these Advance Designs before rebuild. That is twice as long as what I would expect from a DA Koni. I did need to have them rebuilt after last season, which was due to 2 faulty seals (which hopefully does not become a trend). Keep in mind that I will likely put less than 1000 street miles on the shocks in 2 years, but the car will see approximately 50 autocross events. AD does sell kits to rebuild their shocks, but I don't know enough about shocks to try this, so I would go to AD for the work or a third party.
4) Perch: I would ask for clarification on that. When I bought mine it was a single price for the shocks, housings, springs, and top plates. I'm sure they would quote you on everything if you asked, and I'm 99% sure that the housing includes the spring perch based on their design.
5) Top plates: I was the first 05 they did, and at the time they were trying some things for the top plates. By next week I will have the new design, which works much better than the original style I have on the car now (which are actually bending). I think you will need their top plates as they use a longer strut and a top-mounted plate design to gain extra travel.
6) zzyzx: I'll let Steve answer the questions about his housing (which may be a better solution than what I'm trying to gain rear droop).
7) FSB: The next prototype should go on next week if I get it in time. It's not available for order yet, but should be soon. We are resolving some fitment issues before testing. If all goes weel, I will put it through the ringer during the Evolution Dial-in school in Atlanta on 4/14 and give a full review afterwards. Chris - out of curiosity, which FSB did you put on?
Joel
I do NOT want to spend over 2500 but was just listing all the options available in case the most expensive ones were really that much better.
Originally I was going to get the KW V3's but since they do not have an 05 STi application yet and I want dampers now, I started looking for others. The KW's are supposed to be very streetable with a wide range of both adjustments. So basically its between waiting for the KW's or Advance Designs. Joel by loud for street use what do you mean? Is most of the noise from running all metal camber plates front and rear? I think Tom was posting about putting a polyurethane layer between them and the car to help with that. I really am looking for the ultimate setup that will be competitive and streetable as the same time but realize that there are compromises involved. How harsh is the ride? Supposedly good dampers are not harsh even with stiff springs they are firm but not harsh. How often do the Advance Designs need to be rebuilt? Supposedly they are self rebuildable/revalvable but I don't know how involved that is but I have rebuilt mountain bike shocks before many times. When I called Ground Control they seemed hesistant to sell me the setup now so I guess I will need to find out how long it will be for them to be ready to sell them to me and others. The cars primary focus is autox but I enjoy driving it daily too much to stop.
The advance designs do seem like a good deal at only 400/damper plus 120/housing. But does that mean I also need to add 400 for the springs/perches or is that included in the 120/housing?
Joel did you get the new top mount gc camber plates and how do you like them? If i go with ground control/advance design i will likely get them also.
The zzyzx coilovers are just a housing/spring perch setup that require AD or Koni dampers so what advantage do they have over the housings that ground control sells for the advance designs? Better geometry or tire clearance? Do they have an 05 STi fitment yet?
Finally have to got to test the new huge front bar with your setup and what did you think of it? I am waiting until I decide on coilovers to get the right bars to match them but if you have tested it and it works I will order it right now.
Thanks for all the advice so far,
Nate[/QUOTE]
Wow. Lots of questions. I'll try to answer them in order:
1) Noise: I'm not sure where it all comes from, but they do make a lot of clanging. More than I would want in an everyday driver (which is not the case with my car, hence the AC removal, stereo removal, etc.). We cut down some of the noise with a redesigned spring perch. I'm not sure where Tom was planning to use the urethane, but reducing noise was it's intent. Some of the noise will come from the fact that everything is metal-to-metal contact, and the camber plates are an open design (particularly important in the rear, which is in the passenger compartment).
2) Harshness: This is a very subjective question, as different people like different things. Apparently when you turn old you like the softly sprung and nearly undamped characteristics of a Buick. To most people, shocks with firm compresion valving fell "harsh". Luckily, a well setup autocross car does not need much compression valving, but should be heavier than normal in rebound. The Advanced Designs are not developed to the point where there is a stock damping curve. Mine have been valved specifically for the spring rates that I am running, and they work very well for autocross. Regardless, with the spring rates I am using the car does not exactly absorb bumps in the road. That is beyond the shock characteristics.
3) Durability: I am hoping to get 2 years out of these Advance Designs before rebuild. That is twice as long as what I would expect from a DA Koni. I did need to have them rebuilt after last season, which was due to 2 faulty seals (which hopefully does not become a trend). Keep in mind that I will likely put less than 1000 street miles on the shocks in 2 years, but the car will see approximately 50 autocross events. AD does sell kits to rebuild their shocks, but I don't know enough about shocks to try this, so I would go to AD for the work or a third party.
4) Perch: I would ask for clarification on that. When I bought mine it was a single price for the shocks, housings, springs, and top plates. I'm sure they would quote you on everything if you asked, and I'm 99% sure that the housing includes the spring perch based on their design.
5) Top plates: I was the first 05 they did, and at the time they were trying some things for the top plates. By next week I will have the new design, which works much better than the original style I have on the car now (which are actually bending). I think you will need their top plates as they use a longer strut and a top-mounted plate design to gain extra travel.
6) zzyzx: I'll let Steve answer the questions about his housing (which may be a better solution than what I'm trying to gain rear droop).
7) FSB: The next prototype should go on next week if I get it in time. It's not available for order yet, but should be soon. We are resolving some fitment issues before testing. If all goes weel, I will put it through the ringer during the Evolution Dial-in school in Atlanta on 4/14 and give a full review afterwards. Chris - out of curiosity, which FSB did you put on?
Joel
| Draken | 03-25-2005 03:58 PM |
The whiteline 26-28mm one. Seems to fit fine, but rubs the control arms a little here and there. I'm not quite as extreme on my spring rates are you're running, so I'm not sure i'll need the hollow 32mm bar. But if i do, I'll give Sam a call :)
Chris H.
Chris H.
| zzyzx | 03-25-2005 04:01 PM |
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]
1) Noise:
[/quote]
I'm pretty sure the noise originates from the GC camber plates. I use/recommend MRT plates and there is no noise at all. It sounds and feels very firm/solid. omahasubaru can attest to this as we just put a set on his WRX wagon last Saturday and sorted it out Sunday at an autox.
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]
2) Harshness:
[/quote]
The Koni DA shocks are very good at damping and keeping things agreeable on the street. If you run spring rates of 700 lbs or greater, any significant bump will certainly be felt, however.
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]
3) Durability: I am hoping to get 2 years out of these Advance Designs before rebuild.
[/quote]
I've heard good/bad stories about both the Konis and AD units. YMMV.
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]
6) zzyzx: I'll let Steve answer the questions about his housing (which may be a better solution than what I'm trying to gain rear droop).
[/quote]
I've addressed all the issues that the GC housing have and corrected them in my design. I'm sure that the input of Joel and Tom they're better now than before. One thing I think that my design still has as an advantage is that the rear ears are extended for much greater strut/tire clearance. As to the issue of droop travel, this has been addressed as well:
[img]http://zzyzxmotorsports.com/pics/coilovers/rear-droop-travel.jpg[/img]
Now all that said, I'm in the middle of a complete re-design of the housings. Whereas now they're similar to the GC housings, the future design will be totally different and offer more flexibility than you'd ever need. :)
- Steve
[url="http://zzyzxmotorsports.com"]Zzyzx Motorsports[/url]
1) Noise:
[/quote]
I'm pretty sure the noise originates from the GC camber plates. I use/recommend MRT plates and there is no noise at all. It sounds and feels very firm/solid. omahasubaru can attest to this as we just put a set on his WRX wagon last Saturday and sorted it out Sunday at an autox.
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]
2) Harshness:
[/quote]
The Koni DA shocks are very good at damping and keeping things agreeable on the street. If you run spring rates of 700 lbs or greater, any significant bump will certainly be felt, however.
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]
3) Durability: I am hoping to get 2 years out of these Advance Designs before rebuild.
[/quote]
I've heard good/bad stories about both the Konis and AD units. YMMV.
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]
6) zzyzx: I'll let Steve answer the questions about his housing (which may be a better solution than what I'm trying to gain rear droop).
[/quote]
I've addressed all the issues that the GC housing have and corrected them in my design. I'm sure that the input of Joel and Tom they're better now than before. One thing I think that my design still has as an advantage is that the rear ears are extended for much greater strut/tire clearance. As to the issue of droop travel, this has been addressed as well:
[img]http://zzyzxmotorsports.com/pics/coilovers/rear-droop-travel.jpg[/img]
Now all that said, I'm in the middle of a complete re-design of the housings. Whereas now they're similar to the GC housings, the future design will be totally different and offer more flexibility than you'd ever need. :)
- Steve
[url="http://zzyzxmotorsports.com"]Zzyzx Motorsports[/url]
| zzyzx | 03-25-2005 04:04 PM |
Oh and just to clear something up, Penske does not offer a shock for a strut based car at all, so those discussions are moot. :)
- Steve
- Steve
| Draken | 03-25-2005 04:14 PM |
Joe Geoke ran Penskes on his G-stock Audi A4 V6 in 2003. Saw them with my own four eyes. I remember quite a bit of talk discussing them on the NW autocross forums back when i lived in Oregon. Pretty sure these are a "strut."
[img]http://www.audiworld.com/news/99/99_5pix/a402_low.jpg[/img]
Chris H.
[img]http://www.audiworld.com/news/99/99_5pix/a402_low.jpg[/img]
Chris H.
| zzyzx | 03-25-2005 04:23 PM |
[QUOTE=Draken]Joe Geoke ran Penskes on his G-stock Audi A4 V6 in 2003. Saw them with my own four eyes. I remember quite a bit of talk discussing them on the NW autocross forums back when i lived in Oregon. Pretty sure these are a "strut."
[img]http://www.audiworld.com/news/99/99_5pix/a402_low.jpg[/img]
Chris H.[/QUOTE]
Actually, that's not a MacPherson strut. I'll let others explain.
FWIW, I just talked to Penske last week about this and unless the guy I was talking to was clueless, no they don't do struts. Feel free to look through their [url="http://www.penskeshocks.com/Adjustable%20Tech%20Manual.pdf"]technical product manual[/url] to see if you can find a shock with appropriate dimensions for our application.
- Steve
[img]http://www.audiworld.com/news/99/99_5pix/a402_low.jpg[/img]
Chris H.[/QUOTE]
Actually, that's not a MacPherson strut. I'll let others explain.
FWIW, I just talked to Penske last week about this and unless the guy I was talking to was clueless, no they don't do struts. Feel free to look through their [url="http://www.penskeshocks.com/Adjustable%20Tech%20Manual.pdf"]technical product manual[/url] to see if you can find a shock with appropriate dimensions for our application.
- Steve
| WRXIN | 03-25-2005 04:40 PM |
Not to disrupt this high $$$ conversation, but here's a little food for thought: I just won the San Diego nationals in STU with a set of JDM STI pink springs on stock dampers, Cusco sway bars, and camber plates. ;) (Thanks Myles at Race Comp Engineering)
Unless I come into some unexpected money in the near future, I'll be running this setup in Atwater in about a month and most likely in Topeka later in the year.
Just another suggestion.
-Mark
Unless I come into some unexpected money in the near future, I'll be running this setup in Atwater in about a month and most likely in Topeka later in the year.
Just another suggestion.
-Mark
| dwx | 03-25-2005 04:59 PM |
The guy who won STU at nationals last year also just had springs and a catback exhaust and that was it. Not to take anything away from Dave who is a friend of mine, but the level of competition and the cars there just weren't anywhere near what's doable in the class. He was also on stock tires. He ran about .1 slower than the top STS car.
My Ground Control/AD stuff never made any noise from the front or rear. However I was using GrpN rear hats and not something metal. I was using GC plates in the front however.
Steve, respond to my PM. :)
My Ground Control/AD stuff never made any noise from the front or rear. However I was using GrpN rear hats and not something metal. I was using GC plates in the front however.
Steve, respond to my PM. :)
| cooleyjb | 03-25-2005 04:59 PM |
[QUOTE=WRXIN]Not to disrupt this high $$$ conversation, but here's a little food for thought: I just won the San Diego nationals in STU with a set of JDM STI pink springs on stock dampers, Cusco sway bars, and camber plates. ;) (Thanks Myles at Race Comp Engineering)
Unless I come into some unexpected money in the near future, I'll be running this setup in Atwater in about a month and most likely in Topeka later in the year.
Just another suggestion.
-Mark[/QUOTE]
Congrats on the good runs at SD
So people don't have to run around looking at times on the SCCA site
ESP--Navid--Evo 98.093
STX--Josh--WRX 105.797
STU--Mark--STi--105.045
Unless I come into some unexpected money in the near future, I'll be running this setup in Atwater in about a month and most likely in Topeka later in the year.
Just another suggestion.
-Mark[/QUOTE]
Congrats on the good runs at SD
So people don't have to run around looking at times on the SCCA site
ESP--Navid--Evo 98.093
STX--Josh--WRX 105.797
STU--Mark--STi--105.045
| WRXIN | 03-25-2005 05:08 PM |
Yeah... the ESP cars were very prepped. I'd never run ESP with my setup... I responded with my thoughts really just to make sure people don't get stuck throwing high dollars at their car to try and get faster without first working on their own skills. Not that I'm suggesting that Got Pink? is doing that, just that many people do. I'm still getting better with my budget setup.
Additionally, the STi is still a very unknown entity. No-one really knows what setup is best. I'm just now finally driving the car instead of it driving me. They are finally just now showing up as being competitive after all the initial fears about EVOs and BMWs in STU. I run against an EVO in local events here in Southern California and he's very good. We regularly swap 1st and 2nd position. I did beat him at the nationals. :) But... he's got a nice set of coilovers and is now experimenting with other coilovers.
Additionally, the STi is still a very unknown entity. No-one really knows what setup is best. I'm just now finally driving the car instead of it driving me. They are finally just now showing up as being competitive after all the initial fears about EVOs and BMWs in STU. I run against an EVO in local events here in Southern California and he's very good. We regularly swap 1st and 2nd position. I did beat him at the nationals. :) But... he's got a nice set of coilovers and is now experimenting with other coilovers.
| Draken | 03-25-2005 05:45 PM |
My STi was STU legal at nats, but i threw some hoosiers on it and ran ESP. I think Kikoo's car was run in STU last year until just before nats if I'm not mistaken.
Chris H.
Chris H.
| Got Pink? | 03-25-2005 05:49 PM |
WRXIN: Congrats on the win at SD Tour!
I have been on the stock setup since I bought the car in August and went to lots of events like that. I am not a pro driver nor a novice and am rapidly getting better. I have not been to a big event but locally in the philly region I do very well. I don't like the body roll that the stock setup with stock springs has and really don't want to get springs only to need coilovers later. I am of the opinion do it once and right. Also I had a miata before this with koni yellows and hate how I cannot change much with the STi and stock struts. I think that some people are using coilovers without much knowledge of what they are doing and end up not faster because they are not optimally setup. I will have some very experienced autoxers to help setup my car and take runs to make sure it works well and some test and tunes if I can get coilovers soon.
That said I am considering waiting for the KW's and just getting camber plates and bars for now but don't want to buy ones that would not work later with the coilovers I get. So which camber plates will work with stock struts and KW's/ADs? Noltec/MRT, PDE, GC? The noltecs are less money but I don't like the lack of repeatability of adjustment but I guess that can be solved with a magic marker. Which has the best range and how do they all affect ride height and travel.
Basically I just wanted to buy a competitive setup all at once that works well together.
So what does everybody think of these:
[url]http://www.kwsuspensions.com/coilovers.htm[/url]
I am down to deciding between the KW V3's and AD's with either their housings or zzyzx's if they are available.
zzyzx: I would like to hear more info on your new housings and how much they would cost roughly?
Joel: thanks for all the advise thus far and I wish I was closer to atlanta so I could check out your car and see what an ESP STi can do? Any plans to come up here for a Subaru Challenge Event if they have some here like last year. Are you going the national tour in mass in july?
Thanks and the discussion going,
Nate
I have been on the stock setup since I bought the car in August and went to lots of events like that. I am not a pro driver nor a novice and am rapidly getting better. I have not been to a big event but locally in the philly region I do very well. I don't like the body roll that the stock setup with stock springs has and really don't want to get springs only to need coilovers later. I am of the opinion do it once and right. Also I had a miata before this with koni yellows and hate how I cannot change much with the STi and stock struts. I think that some people are using coilovers without much knowledge of what they are doing and end up not faster because they are not optimally setup. I will have some very experienced autoxers to help setup my car and take runs to make sure it works well and some test and tunes if I can get coilovers soon.
That said I am considering waiting for the KW's and just getting camber plates and bars for now but don't want to buy ones that would not work later with the coilovers I get. So which camber plates will work with stock struts and KW's/ADs? Noltec/MRT, PDE, GC? The noltecs are less money but I don't like the lack of repeatability of adjustment but I guess that can be solved with a magic marker. Which has the best range and how do they all affect ride height and travel.
Basically I just wanted to buy a competitive setup all at once that works well together.
So what does everybody think of these:
[url]http://www.kwsuspensions.com/coilovers.htm[/url]
I am down to deciding between the KW V3's and AD's with either their housings or zzyzx's if they are available.
zzyzx: I would like to hear more info on your new housings and how much they would cost roughly?
Joel: thanks for all the advise thus far and I wish I was closer to atlanta so I could check out your car and see what an ESP STi can do? Any plans to come up here for a Subaru Challenge Event if they have some here like last year. Are you going the national tour in mass in july?
Thanks and the discussion going,
Nate
| cooleyjb | 03-25-2005 05:50 PM |
My intent in the post was to show that you were very competitve with a relatively cheap setup and also that there was room to for STU prepped STi's to grow.
joe
joe
| RaceComp Engineering | 03-26-2005 06:38 AM |
[QUOTE=WRXIN]Not to disrupt this high $$$ conversation, but here's a little food for thought: I just won the San Diego nationals in STU with a set of JDM STI pink springs on stock dampers, Cusco sway bars, and camber plates. ;) (Thanks Myles at Race Comp Engineering)
Unless I come into some unexpected money in the near future, I'll be running this setup in Atwater in about a month and most likely in Topeka later in the year.
Just another suggestion.
-Mark[/QUOTE]
THANKS MARK-....yeah alot of people forget driver input !! We can talk all day about this and that, I have learned MOST cant drive and are too technical and hung up on overanalizing this sport. The fast guys are fast regardless. That said, yes knowing whats going on under the car is a big help, but alot of people focus 80% on that and 20 on driving, and looking deep inside themselves to go faster, as I feel its a state of mind. I know when things on the car fail and go away, there aint nothin you do about it, so you have to find a place to go in your head and mind OTHER than the technical side, to find it in your self to make it happen, and thats what the great drivers do.
On the technical side (without posting a crap load of pictures of ZEALS, and MOTONS ( I would hate to have people complain about that :rolleyes: )
We have aLOT of people who converted from pinks to ZEALS who are autocrossing this year, so its going to be interesting to get that feedback. We also have 2 EVOs running Motons already and my car gets the first set of MOTON CLUBSPORTS for the WRX in about a month. We are woking directly with MOTON in the Netherlands to get a clubsport version done and in competition here soon.
Keep up the good work MARK !!!
If anyone wants info on the Motons or ZEALS let me know. If anyone wants me to post the pictures, let me know, and I will do so, othereise I dont want any MODS breathing down my back.
Myles Williams
[url]www.racecompengineering.com[/url]
[email][email�protected][/email]
Racecomp Engineering LLC.
9123 Old Annapolis Rd Suite 103w
Columbia, Maryland 21044
410-730-RACE
410-730-5503 FAX
410-707-0108 mobile
Unless I come into some unexpected money in the near future, I'll be running this setup in Atwater in about a month and most likely in Topeka later in the year.
Just another suggestion.
-Mark[/QUOTE]
THANKS MARK-....yeah alot of people forget driver input !! We can talk all day about this and that, I have learned MOST cant drive and are too technical and hung up on overanalizing this sport. The fast guys are fast regardless. That said, yes knowing whats going on under the car is a big help, but alot of people focus 80% on that and 20 on driving, and looking deep inside themselves to go faster, as I feel its a state of mind. I know when things on the car fail and go away, there aint nothin you do about it, so you have to find a place to go in your head and mind OTHER than the technical side, to find it in your self to make it happen, and thats what the great drivers do.
On the technical side (without posting a crap load of pictures of ZEALS, and MOTONS ( I would hate to have people complain about that :rolleyes: )
We have aLOT of people who converted from pinks to ZEALS who are autocrossing this year, so its going to be interesting to get that feedback. We also have 2 EVOs running Motons already and my car gets the first set of MOTON CLUBSPORTS for the WRX in about a month. We are woking directly with MOTON in the Netherlands to get a clubsport version done and in competition here soon.
Keep up the good work MARK !!!
If anyone wants info on the Motons or ZEALS let me know. If anyone wants me to post the pictures, let me know, and I will do so, othereise I dont want any MODS breathing down my back.
Myles Williams
[url]www.racecompengineering.com[/url]
[email][email�protected][/email]
Racecomp Engineering LLC.
9123 Old Annapolis Rd Suite 103w
Columbia, Maryland 21044
410-730-RACE
410-730-5503 FAX
410-707-0108 mobile
| trhoppe | 03-26-2005 08:37 AM |
Damn I almost posted IBMylespimpsmotonsandzealsandpostspictures
If you are trying to win Nationals, prepared to test and spend big $$. Otherwise, pick up a set of Tein Flex's and reverse the springsrates. Bam, done.
-Tom
If you are trying to win Nationals, prepared to test and spend big $$. Otherwise, pick up a set of Tein Flex's and reverse the springsrates. Bam, done.
-Tom
| AUTOwrXER | 03-26-2005 08:44 AM |
[QUOTE=Got Pink?]Joel: thanks for all the advise thus far and I wish I was closer to atlanta so I could check out your car and see what an ESP STi can do? Any plans to come up here for a Subaru Challenge Event if they have some here like last year. Are you going the national tour in mass in july?
Nate[/QUOTE]
I'm planning to run the Tours at Peru and Toledo this year. Mass is a little far for me. I haven't seen the Subaru Challenge schedule, but I don't think I'll be doing any of those as I'm already planning 26 events this season...
Nate[/QUOTE]
I'm planning to run the Tours at Peru and Toledo this year. Mass is a little far for me. I haven't seen the Subaru Challenge schedule, but I don't think I'll be doing any of those as I'm already planning 26 events this season...
| AUTOwrXER | 03-26-2005 08:46 AM |
Post those pics, Myles.
| RaceComp Engineering | 03-26-2005 04:27 PM |
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]Post those pics, Myles.[/QUOTE]
If one more person would say for me to post them ,.I will. That way if a Mod says people got mad and complained, I wouldnt get in trouble. I swear there are balck helicoptors outside my house..... ;)
Myles
If one more person would say for me to post them ,.I will. That way if a Mod says people got mad and complained, I wouldnt get in trouble. I swear there are balck helicoptors outside my house..... ;)
Myles
| cooleyjb | 03-26-2005 05:42 PM |
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]Post those pics, Myles.[/QUOTE]
ummm.............. yeah what he said
ummm.............. yeah what he said
| TopSpeed | 03-26-2005 07:42 PM |
Oops, logged in as TopSpeed......
-Tom
-Tom
| trhoppe | 03-26-2005 07:43 PM |
Just post a link to the thread with the pics ;)
-Tom
-Tom
| RaceComp Engineering | 03-26-2005 10:03 PM |
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]Post those pics, Myles.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Moton%201/Labeled/DSCN0397a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Moton%201/Labeled/DSCN0398a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Moton%201/Labeled/DSCN0399a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Moton%201/Labeled/DSCN0400a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Moton%201/Labeled/DSCN0401a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Moton%201/Labeled/DSCN0402a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Moton%201/Labeled/DSCN0403a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Moton%201/Labeled/DSCN0404a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Moton%201/Labeled/DSCN0405a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Moton%201/Labeled/DSCN0397a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Moton%201/Labeled/DSCN0398a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Moton%201/Labeled/DSCN0399a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Moton%201/Labeled/DSCN0400a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Moton%201/Labeled/DSCN0401a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Moton%201/Labeled/DSCN0402a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Moton%201/Labeled/DSCN0403a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Moton%201/Labeled/DSCN0404a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Moton%201/Labeled/DSCN0405a.jpg[/IMG]
| patr | 03-27-2005 02:15 AM |
I know of many guys using the DMS tarmac rally struts for road race / auto-x / gymkhana with good success (not just in North America)
I've used various setups on tarmac rallies (i.e. corsica, germany, belgium, uk, france, etc.) and the DMS NT (tarmac spec) setup is very good value for the price.
patr
[url="http://www.rocketrally.com"]www.rocketrally.com[/url]
I've used various setups on tarmac rallies (i.e. corsica, germany, belgium, uk, france, etc.) and the DMS NT (tarmac spec) setup is very good value for the price.
patr
[url="http://www.rocketrally.com"]www.rocketrally.com[/url]
| Got Pink? | 03-28-2005 12:46 AM |
Tom,
I don't plan on going to nationals this year but I want to next year and don't want to have to switch to different coilovers next year so I want to get something really good now and learn how they work and how to adjust them effectively this season so by next year I am ready to go and will be able to do more tours not have to change the car much. I also like to tinker with stuff and I understand the basics of what to do coming from mountain biking where tinkering is required so i will not be overwhelmed by double adjustables at all. The goal is to get the most competitive setup that is tolerable on the street.
Myles: I like the motons but don't know if they are worth over a grand more than other options but I am still considering them thanks for the pics!
Pat: I searched here and there are lots of complaits about DMS struts on street cars and lots of people complaining of durability and customer service but those are not that recent posts. I will consider them but would like to know if any of these issues have been resolved since then.
Thanks for the help guys,
I will make sure to post any more information I find out to help others and a full review once I finally get something and test.
Nate
I don't plan on going to nationals this year but I want to next year and don't want to have to switch to different coilovers next year so I want to get something really good now and learn how they work and how to adjust them effectively this season so by next year I am ready to go and will be able to do more tours not have to change the car much. I also like to tinker with stuff and I understand the basics of what to do coming from mountain biking where tinkering is required so i will not be overwhelmed by double adjustables at all. The goal is to get the most competitive setup that is tolerable on the street.
Myles: I like the motons but don't know if they are worth over a grand more than other options but I am still considering them thanks for the pics!
Pat: I searched here and there are lots of complaits about DMS struts on street cars and lots of people complaining of durability and customer service but those are not that recent posts. I will consider them but would like to know if any of these issues have been resolved since then.
Thanks for the help guys,
I will make sure to post any more information I find out to help others and a full review once I finally get something and test.
Nate
| jrerin | 03-28-2005 01:28 AM |
DMS ALL THE WAY
I won the NASA TT series on DMS 40's Mark is always available for imput.... Street ride is great..... I am going to the 50's this year and I will give up some comfort on the street for that last little bit of performance. Also listen to Pat's post...... he is the SHI% when it comes to getting a rally car around the track on dirt or pavement..... I beleive 40's retail for around 2400 USD
Russ
:)
I won the NASA TT series on DMS 40's Mark is always available for imput.... Street ride is great..... I am going to the 50's this year and I will give up some comfort on the street for that last little bit of performance. Also listen to Pat's post...... he is the SHI% when it comes to getting a rally car around the track on dirt or pavement..... I beleive 40's retail for around 2400 USD
Russ
:)
| jrerin | 03-28-2005 01:32 AM |
PS
Now that Mark is the only DMS agent in North America there will be no more issues..... also the noise issue was taken care of partly due to other importers doing things wrong..... MARK and DMS will stand behind the product without a doubt. Localy here in LA RRENG has had a bunch of Evo guys switch over to DMS and they are loving it..... as long as they stay behind my STI I will be happy too :banana: :banana:
Now that Mark is the only DMS agent in North America there will be no more issues..... also the noise issue was taken care of partly due to other importers doing things wrong..... MARK and DMS will stand behind the product without a doubt. Localy here in LA RRENG has had a bunch of Evo guys switch over to DMS and they are loving it..... as long as they stay behind my STI I will be happy too :banana: :banana:
| omahasubaru | 03-28-2005 09:05 AM |
[QUOTE=zzyzx]I'm pretty sure the noise originates from the GC camber plates. I use/recommend MRT plates and there is no noise at all. It sounds and feels very firm/solid. omahasubaru can attest to this as we just put a set on his WRX wagon last Saturday and sorted it out Sunday at an autox.
The Koni DA shocks are very good at damping and keeping things agreeable on the street. If you run spring rates of 700 lbs or greater, any significant bump will certainly be felt, however.
I've heard good/bad stories about both the Konis and AD units. YMMV.
I've addressed all the issues that the GC housing have and corrected them in my design. I'm sure that the input of Joel and Tom they're better now than before. One thing I think that my design still has as an advantage is that the rear ears are extended for much greater strut/tire clearance. As to the issue of droop travel, this has been addressed as well:
[img]http://zzyzxmotorsports.com/pics/coilovers/rear-droop-travel.jpg[/img]
Now all that said, I'm in the middle of a complete re-design of the housings. Whereas now they're similar to the GC housings, the future design will be totally different and offer more flexibility than you'd ever need. :)
- Steve
[url="http://zzyzxmotorsports.com"]Zzyzx Motorsports[/url][/QUOTE]
Steve is right. I'm still loving my coilovers. No noise at all. My Tein flexs were quiet, but occasionally would make noise, these are silent and even with having camber plates in the rear are quieter than my last set-up. The Koni dampers are quite nice too. I can get these stiffer spring rates to ride better on the medium to light stuff better than my Tein's ever would. They take the big stuff harsher, but that's because my springs rates are doubled in the front and more than double in the rear.
I'm very pleased. Keep the inside rear tire planted has really helped corner exit as well, the droop of these is what has really helped with that.
I'm going to be test fitting some SSR Comp 17x8.5 with 245/40-17 Kumho MX's coming up at our next solo II to see the rear strut & fender clearance. Since tire width varies so much... I'm going to take measurements from the rim lip edge to the strut for my two wheels (17x7.5" SSR Comps & 17x8" Rota Torques) & these 8.5" SSR's when I get a chance. I'll be sure to note the camber I'm running in the rear as well.
Either way I think the Zzyzx coilovers, especially with what I've seen of the new design concept will be even more superior than what i've got and should although they already are the best offering out there for a Subaru... They'll be top of the line with the redesign.
The Koni DA shocks are very good at damping and keeping things agreeable on the street. If you run spring rates of 700 lbs or greater, any significant bump will certainly be felt, however.
I've heard good/bad stories about both the Konis and AD units. YMMV.
I've addressed all the issues that the GC housing have and corrected them in my design. I'm sure that the input of Joel and Tom they're better now than before. One thing I think that my design still has as an advantage is that the rear ears are extended for much greater strut/tire clearance. As to the issue of droop travel, this has been addressed as well:
[img]http://zzyzxmotorsports.com/pics/coilovers/rear-droop-travel.jpg[/img]
Now all that said, I'm in the middle of a complete re-design of the housings. Whereas now they're similar to the GC housings, the future design will be totally different and offer more flexibility than you'd ever need. :)
- Steve
[url="http://zzyzxmotorsports.com"]Zzyzx Motorsports[/url][/QUOTE]
Steve is right. I'm still loving my coilovers. No noise at all. My Tein flexs were quiet, but occasionally would make noise, these are silent and even with having camber plates in the rear are quieter than my last set-up. The Koni dampers are quite nice too. I can get these stiffer spring rates to ride better on the medium to light stuff better than my Tein's ever would. They take the big stuff harsher, but that's because my springs rates are doubled in the front and more than double in the rear.
I'm very pleased. Keep the inside rear tire planted has really helped corner exit as well, the droop of these is what has really helped with that.
I'm going to be test fitting some SSR Comp 17x8.5 with 245/40-17 Kumho MX's coming up at our next solo II to see the rear strut & fender clearance. Since tire width varies so much... I'm going to take measurements from the rim lip edge to the strut for my two wheels (17x7.5" SSR Comps & 17x8" Rota Torques) & these 8.5" SSR's when I get a chance. I'll be sure to note the camber I'm running in the rear as well.
Either way I think the Zzyzx coilovers, especially with what I've seen of the new design concept will be even more superior than what i've got and should although they already are the best offering out there for a Subaru... They'll be top of the line with the redesign.
| patr | 03-28-2005 12:56 PM |
I agree that the 'older' generation of DMS 40s had some issues, but the distributorship was changed, and everyone that I know of with genuine issues from the 'older' generation of shocks that purchased them through authorized dealers had them replaced under warranty.
I have been using the DMS since before the 'old' distributor distrbuted them, through the changes, through the intorduction of their street units, etc. etc. through a tumultuous year where I used Regiers and back to them now. I like them. I like them so much, I asked to sell them in Western Canada / Northwest. If you have to pay for your shocks, they are the best bang for the buck in their price category.
You can't throw a motorsports product on a street car and leave it (i.e. not rebuild it or service it or clean it) for a few years. If that is your plan, you should steer clear of everything and just get some 'street' replacements
P.S. I have more experience driving with them on Subarus than anyone in North America (distributors included!). If you have any questions email me. I'm not going to give you any BS about what works and doesn't.
[url="http://www.rocketrally.com"]www.rocketrally.com[/url]
I have been using the DMS since before the 'old' distributor distrbuted them, through the changes, through the intorduction of their street units, etc. etc. through a tumultuous year where I used Regiers and back to them now. I like them. I like them so much, I asked to sell them in Western Canada / Northwest. If you have to pay for your shocks, they are the best bang for the buck in their price category.
You can't throw a motorsports product on a street car and leave it (i.e. not rebuild it or service it or clean it) for a few years. If that is your plan, you should steer clear of everything and just get some 'street' replacements
P.S. I have more experience driving with them on Subarus than anyone in North America (distributors included!). If you have any questions email me. I'm not going to give you any BS about what works and doesn't.
[url="http://www.rocketrally.com"]www.rocketrally.com[/url]
| Got Pink? | 03-28-2005 02:28 PM |
Pat,
Thanks for the advice I called them before reading this and received lots of useful advice. I understand that a motorsports product will not be maintenance free and I am more than capable of performing basic maintanence on things but also don't want to be taking them apart all the time. If the 40s were independently double adjustable I would have ordered them today and been done with it but I really want to get a double adjustable setup and decided that spending over 4k on the 50s is just too much. I can get the KW V3's when they come out for 05 STi's 2350 for a very good double adjustable kit with stainless steel housings and a lifetime warranty and they ride reasonably nice on the street. I wish their height range was greater but hopefully I can select camber plates that will raise my ride height enough for street use.
omahasubaru: I tried calling steve but got voicemail and don't have any idea what his setup costs can you give me a range at least?
Thanks for the advice I called them before reading this and received lots of useful advice. I understand that a motorsports product will not be maintenance free and I am more than capable of performing basic maintanence on things but also don't want to be taking them apart all the time. If the 40s were independently double adjustable I would have ordered them today and been done with it but I really want to get a double adjustable setup and decided that spending over 4k on the 50s is just too much. I can get the KW V3's when they come out for 05 STi's 2350 for a very good double adjustable kit with stainless steel housings and a lifetime warranty and they ride reasonably nice on the street. I wish their height range was greater but hopefully I can select camber plates that will raise my ride height enough for street use.
omahasubaru: I tried calling steve but got voicemail and don't have any idea what his setup costs can you give me a range at least?
| omahasubaru | 03-28-2005 02:30 PM |
Since he's in the midst of a redesign, you'll have to wait to talk to him. I'm sure the price will go up from what I have. Plus I got his set off of his RS used, so I got a great deal!
