| rockt104 | 03-29-2004 08:49 AM |
Help Discouraged Autocrosser
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I did not perform well yesterday during the actual competition...then during fun runs I ran faster than my comp runs in a friends wrx wagon, with only exhaust and Azenis Sports....no wagon powaa comments :-)
My setup consists of:
Cusco Zero2Rs
(7kg/mm F set on 3 of 5 / 7kg/mm R set on 5 of 5)
2.5 degrees front camber, 1/4 toe out
.8 degrees rear camber, 0 toe
Whiteline 22-24 mm rear bar, set full stiff
MRT Drop Links
Stock front bar
Rota Subzero's with 225 Azenis Sports
The car weighs 2990 lbs, and is within 12 lbs after corner balancing. It is also low, not sure of the drop, but the wheels are basically a cm or two from being tucked.
His wagon felt like a completely different car. The front was just planted and there no "hopping" that my car seems to do in the slower sharper corners. There was obviously more body roll, but it evidently didnt matter. It felt faster throught the corners than my car.
In hindsight, the front of my car felt oversprung through the slower/sharper corners. It felt like the tire would load through the corner correctly, but not settle out like a well balanced strut/spring....then "hop" instead of the usual pushing or rolling. I had thought that this felt like crap before and was going to ask Tom Hoppe to drive my car at the Subaru Challenge in Richmond, just to get his input if this was normal behavior for a coilover. I am a noob, with one year of autocross experience, but have been dedicated to learning and driving everything I can get my hands on. but yesterday was just plain discouraging. I am definitely going to try increasing the front dampening at our test and tune Saturday (I played with this when i first got the coilovers but didnt notice much difference...so I just dealt with it). I guess I wanted to ask you guys for any other theories or ideas about what could be going on. I was thinking a front bar could be the way to go to supplement the spring when cornering, but i think that still gets back to controlling that spring force during steady cornering. I also thought that maybe i was too low, and the altered geometry was not letting the suspension function effectively?? Thanks for any suggestions.
Kevin
My setup consists of:
Cusco Zero2Rs
(7kg/mm F set on 3 of 5 / 7kg/mm R set on 5 of 5)
2.5 degrees front camber, 1/4 toe out
.8 degrees rear camber, 0 toe
Whiteline 22-24 mm rear bar, set full stiff
MRT Drop Links
Stock front bar
Rota Subzero's with 225 Azenis Sports
The car weighs 2990 lbs, and is within 12 lbs after corner balancing. It is also low, not sure of the drop, but the wheels are basically a cm or two from being tucked.
His wagon felt like a completely different car. The front was just planted and there no "hopping" that my car seems to do in the slower sharper corners. There was obviously more body roll, but it evidently didnt matter. It felt faster throught the corners than my car.
In hindsight, the front of my car felt oversprung through the slower/sharper corners. It felt like the tire would load through the corner correctly, but not settle out like a well balanced strut/spring....then "hop" instead of the usual pushing or rolling. I had thought that this felt like crap before and was going to ask Tom Hoppe to drive my car at the Subaru Challenge in Richmond, just to get his input if this was normal behavior for a coilover. I am a noob, with one year of autocross experience, but have been dedicated to learning and driving everything I can get my hands on. but yesterday was just plain discouraging. I am definitely going to try increasing the front dampening at our test and tune Saturday (I played with this when i first got the coilovers but didnt notice much difference...so I just dealt with it). I guess I wanted to ask you guys for any other theories or ideas about what could be going on. I was thinking a front bar could be the way to go to supplement the spring when cornering, but i think that still gets back to controlling that spring force during steady cornering. I also thought that maybe i was too low, and the altered geometry was not letting the suspension function effectively?? Thanks for any suggestions.
Kevin
| KC | 03-29-2004 09:27 AM |
Wagons are faster. :D (Had to, sorry. :p)
Set your front on 4 or 5 and your rear on 3 or 4. The Stock wagon struts are softer in the rear, and depending on your driving style or how deep you go into a corner, that might help the car settle a little better. I don't know much about the Cuscos, but maybe the rebound is more matched to the spring if it's turned up? Without actually seeing a shock dyno graph of them... it's hard to tell why they are 'hopping'. Your alignment looks good, as well as your bar settings. Maybe back that down to the middle too during your test n tune?
Your test n tune will definitely help get the car set-up to where you like to drive.
You never said how much faster you were in your friends wagon vs your car. If it was about a 1/2 second or less, it could just be attributed to course familiarity.
Set your front on 4 or 5 and your rear on 3 or 4. The Stock wagon struts are softer in the rear, and depending on your driving style or how deep you go into a corner, that might help the car settle a little better. I don't know much about the Cuscos, but maybe the rebound is more matched to the spring if it's turned up? Without actually seeing a shock dyno graph of them... it's hard to tell why they are 'hopping'. Your alignment looks good, as well as your bar settings. Maybe back that down to the middle too during your test n tune?
Your test n tune will definitely help get the car set-up to where you like to drive.
You never said how much faster you were in your friends wagon vs your car. If it was about a 1/2 second or less, it could just be attributed to course familiarity.
| trhoppe | 03-29-2004 10:03 AM |
If youre a "cm" from being "tucked" then holy hell youre low. Measure from fenders to the center of the hub and get back to us. We're all running from 13.5" to 13.75".
If youre hopping though a bumpy turn, then it does seem that the shocks are underdampened for your springs. Try turning up the fronts a little higher and see what happens.
I would
a) Raise the car a tad
b) Turn the front shocks up
See what happens there.
At the TNT go through your shock settings and see what happens. You can learn quite a bit by taking a run at full soft all around. Next run fronts up all the way. Next run rears all the way. Next run turn the fronts all the way soft and the leave the rears full stiff. See how the car behaves with the different shock settings.
-Tom
edit: Unfortunately, wagon's are faster dammit. I hate KC :lol: :p
If youre hopping though a bumpy turn, then it does seem that the shocks are underdampened for your springs. Try turning up the fronts a little higher and see what happens.
I would
a) Raise the car a tad
b) Turn the front shocks up
See what happens there.
At the TNT go through your shock settings and see what happens. You can learn quite a bit by taking a run at full soft all around. Next run fronts up all the way. Next run rears all the way. Next run turn the fronts all the way soft and the leave the rears full stiff. See how the car behaves with the different shock settings.
-Tom
edit: Unfortunately, wagon's are faster dammit. I hate KC :lol: :p
| DrBiggly | 03-29-2004 10:50 AM |
Is it possible that you have the car so low that it's out of the shock's usable range (of travel) and therefore can't dampen the spring correctly regardless of setting?
| KC | 03-29-2004 10:52 AM |
"a CM or two"
A finger is about 1cm high... so 1.5-2 fingers would be just about right.
A finger is about 1cm high... so 1.5-2 fingers would be just about right.
| Corey | 03-29-2004 10:54 AM |
Kevin,
What was the lot surface like? Was it smooth or was it bumpy... a lot of local events that I go to bounce me around like a pogo-stick... Of course a stock car is going to feel more planted on REALLY bumpy lots. If you are seeing it on a smooth lot, then try the suggestions of KC and Tom.
Oh, and if your car is at the same height it was last year, it didn't look abnormally low.
I will be at Hershey next Sunday, maybe I could get a ride in your car? That lot is like glass so you can eliminate one factor there.
Corey #89 STS
What was the lot surface like? Was it smooth or was it bumpy... a lot of local events that I go to bounce me around like a pogo-stick... Of course a stock car is going to feel more planted on REALLY bumpy lots. If you are seeing it on a smooth lot, then try the suggestions of KC and Tom.
Oh, and if your car is at the same height it was last year, it didn't look abnormally low.
I will be at Hershey next Sunday, maybe I could get a ride in your car? That lot is like glass so you can eliminate one factor there.
Corey #89 STS
| rockt104 | 03-29-2004 11:01 AM |
You two are exactly who I hoped to hear from...
I will get a measurement on the height and strongly consider raising it. It is nice be able to align and balance the car for $50. when i put the coilovers back in, i took the MNBiker (I think) approach to height setting "lower it till you rub, then raise it a little"....sounded good at the time:p
IIRC I was about 4/10 faster, and I understand what your saying KC about course familiarity...but that was probably my 20-25th run that day, so I already had my line down. And that time was so statistically out of my normal times that I felt it must be car related. Basically, his car just felt better, and it really made me think how much faster I should be with the suspension modification I have IF I was not bouncing through the corners.
Thanks for the response.
Kevin
I will get a measurement on the height and strongly consider raising it. It is nice be able to align and balance the car for $50. when i put the coilovers back in, i took the MNBiker (I think) approach to height setting "lower it till you rub, then raise it a little"....sounded good at the time:p
IIRC I was about 4/10 faster, and I understand what your saying KC about course familiarity...but that was probably my 20-25th run that day, so I already had my line down. And that time was so statistically out of my normal times that I felt it must be car related. Basically, his car just felt better, and it really made me think how much faster I should be with the suspension modification I have IF I was not bouncing through the corners.
Thanks for the response.
Kevin
| rockt104 | 03-29-2004 11:09 AM |
Corey,
It was the Penn National lot...I consider it a pretty smooth lot but I guess Maple Grove is my only comparison:rolleyes:
I think my car is about the same height as last year...I tried to keep the same settings when I disassembled and clean the coilovers this winter.
I would definitely give you a ride, or maybe just let you drive it...but I am always a little timid about that. especially after Dave took my car out yesterday, sideswiped a cone and put 4 or 5 20" scratches on the passenger side rear door:(
Kevin
It was the Penn National lot...I consider it a pretty smooth lot but I guess Maple Grove is my only comparison:rolleyes:
I think my car is about the same height as last year...I tried to keep the same settings when I disassembled and clean the coilovers this winter.
I would definitely give you a ride, or maybe just let you drive it...but I am always a little timid about that. especially after Dave took my car out yesterday, sideswiped a cone and put 4 or 5 20" scratches on the passenger side rear door:(
Kevin
| rockt104 | 03-29-2004 11:13 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DrBiggly [/i]
[B]Is it possible that you have the car so low that it's out of the shock's usable range (of travel) and therefore can't dampen the spring correctly regardless of setting? [/B][/QUOTE]
No, that I am pretty sure that is not the problem because the height adjustment is seperate from the actual travel of the shock. So the shock travel with a gap of .25" or 6" would be the same.
Kevin
[B]Is it possible that you have the car so low that it's out of the shock's usable range (of travel) and therefore can't dampen the spring correctly regardless of setting? [/B][/QUOTE]
No, that I am pretty sure that is not the problem because the height adjustment is seperate from the actual travel of the shock. So the shock travel with a gap of .25" or 6" would be the same.
Kevin
| DrBiggly | 03-29-2004 11:49 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rockt104[/i]
[B] No, that I am pretty sure that is not the problem because the height adjustment is seperate from the actual travel of the shock. So the shock travel with a gap of .25" or 6" would be the same.
Kevin [/B][/QUOTE]
Good to know! Not all coilover sets are the same. :)
[B] No, that I am pretty sure that is not the problem because the height adjustment is seperate from the actual travel of the shock. So the shock travel with a gap of .25" or 6" would be the same.
Kevin [/B][/QUOTE]
Good to know! Not all coilover sets are the same. :)
| rockt104 | 03-29-2004 12:24 PM |
My heights are...
13.5" Rear
13.0" Front
I have a horrible clunking while i turn in my rearend, so I am gonna raise my car while I am trying to find the problem...since I am gonna lose all my alignment settings anyway!
Kevin
13.5" Rear
13.0" Front
I have a horrible clunking while i turn in my rearend, so I am gonna raise my car while I am trying to find the problem...since I am gonna lose all my alignment settings anyway!
Kevin
| trhoppe | 03-29-2004 12:28 PM |
I would say 13.0" in the front is too low. IMHO of course :p
Tein recommeds no lower then 13.2" which I thought was too low as well....Try 13.5" all around.
-Tom
Tein recommeds no lower then 13.2" which I thought was too low as well....Try 13.5" all around.
-Tom
| spidey02wrx | 03-29-2004 12:32 PM |
I would definately start by turning up the fronts, I don't think its a problem with the car being too low although its hard to tell without seeing it. If this is the NNJR test and tune, I'll be there (silver WRX, black wheels and a rollbar) and we can play games with our shocks.:D I was also at the subaru challenge in Richmond, we might have met.
mark
mark
| MNbiker | 03-29-2004 12:33 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rockt104 [/i]
[B]My heights are...
13.5" Rear
13.0" Front
I have a horrible clunking while i turn in my rearend, so I am gonna raise my car while I am trying to find the problem...since I am gonna lose all my alignment settings anyway!
Kevin [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm with Tom, this sounds a bit too low. I'd also back off the rear damper settings - full stiff with most any damper will be too stiff.
-Steve
Wagonz are most defintely FASTER - Just ask Mike King!;)
[B]My heights are...
13.5" Rear
13.0" Front
I have a horrible clunking while i turn in my rearend, so I am gonna raise my car while I am trying to find the problem...since I am gonna lose all my alignment settings anyway!
Kevin [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm with Tom, this sounds a bit too low. I'd also back off the rear damper settings - full stiff with most any damper will be too stiff.
-Steve
Wagonz are most defintely FASTER - Just ask Mike King!;)
| rockt104 | 03-29-2004 12:40 PM |
Thanks guys...I appreciate the response. I am gonna take the advice and raise it up, probably to 13.5 all the way around. Then i will beat the hell out of it this weekend with every dampening combination i can imagine:)
Spidey,
The TNT i am going to is at Giants Center in Hershey PA...I think I remember you, the fast SM car...FTD that day right?
Kevin
Spidey,
The TNT i am going to is at Giants Center in Hershey PA...I think I remember you, the fast SM car...FTD that day right?
Kevin
| BSLICKOH | 03-29-2004 12:52 PM |
You've heard the phrase "nothing parties like a rental?"
Same basic idea. At one event last year, I put my wheels on another guy's wagon, and beat him by almost a full second in his own car. He and I have similar amounts of autocross experience.
Azenis alone did wonderful things for my ability to be competitive. KONI's added a little bit, but not as much as I was hoping.
If you're a noob, then I'd strongly suggest that you attend an Evolution school. That will do more for improving your times than most if not all of your mods. I could have attended it three or four times for the cost of my KONI's, and in hindsight would have preferred to do so.
Same basic idea. At one event last year, I put my wheels on another guy's wagon, and beat him by almost a full second in his own car. He and I have similar amounts of autocross experience.
Azenis alone did wonderful things for my ability to be competitive. KONI's added a little bit, but not as much as I was hoping.
If you're a noob, then I'd strongly suggest that you attend an Evolution school. That will do more for improving your times than most if not all of your mods. I could have attended it three or four times for the cost of my KONI's, and in hindsight would have preferred to do so.
| rockt104 | 03-29-2004 01:56 PM |
I am number one on the cancelation list at the WDC Evo school this Saturday.;)
....allegedly.
....allegedly.
| spidey02wrx | 03-29-2004 02:59 PM |
Not going to the same test n' tune :( , but there will be plenty of people to help you out there I'm sure. I was not FTD that day, just a little off. FTD was set by an almost identical car from the NNJR region.
| afpdl | 03-29-2004 04:42 PM |
At 13 in the front how are you not rubbing? I have a friend with azenis 9k springs in front a bit higher then yours and he ate away his inner fender liner.
| leecea | 03-29-2004 05:16 PM |
Hi rockt104,
I was working over by the box when you ran and you looked pretty good.
I guess your point is that you ran 4/10ths faster in a less prep'ed wagon, so you have a concern about your car setup, but it's not like your time was awful. I ran DS and had a similar time and there were only a few faster stock and STS/X cars. I thought the course was hard because it had very slow turns before each fast section, so I was always off boost just when I needed power. The ITRs and a 2004 SRT-4 (which I heard makes peak torque at 2200 rpm) were much faster in DS. Plus, they both had very experienced drivers.
I'm probably less experienced than you, so maybe I'm not the best one to give advice, but don't get too down!
Andy.
I was working over by the box when you ran and you looked pretty good.
I guess your point is that you ran 4/10ths faster in a less prep'ed wagon, so you have a concern about your car setup, but it's not like your time was awful. I ran DS and had a similar time and there were only a few faster stock and STS/X cars. I thought the course was hard because it had very slow turns before each fast section, so I was always off boost just when I needed power. The ITRs and a 2004 SRT-4 (which I heard makes peak torque at 2200 rpm) were much faster in DS. Plus, they both had very experienced drivers.
I'm probably less experienced than you, so maybe I'm not the best one to give advice, but don't get too down!
Andy.
| Scoobie Doogie | 03-30-2004 03:21 AM |
I would definitely give you a ride, or maybe just let you drive it...but I am always a little timid about that. especially after Dave took my car out yesterday, sideswiped a cone and put 4 or 5 20" scratches on the passenger side rear door:(
Kevin [/B][/QUOTE]
Hey man they weren't all mine! I give you some Maguires Scratch-X to help ease the pain bro. I'm just not used to cars without grip after driving the CRX with the 235's on it.
Dave
Kevin [/B][/QUOTE]
Hey man they weren't all mine! I give you some Maguires Scratch-X to help ease the pain bro. I'm just not used to cars without grip after driving the CRX with the 235's on it.
Dave
| rockt104 | 03-30-2004 08:27 AM |
Dave,
Its no big deal, and I hit my share of cones for sure...you just hit the wrong one at the wrong angle. I am supposed to be having it buffed out this week.
Afpdl,
Not sure, never heard or saw any evidence of rubbing?? But it def looks like it should rub being that low.
Kevin
Its no big deal, and I hit my share of cones for sure...you just hit the wrong one at the wrong angle. I am supposed to be having it buffed out this week.
Afpdl,
Not sure, never heard or saw any evidence of rubbing?? But it def looks like it should rub being that low.
Kevin
| afpdl | 03-30-2004 12:42 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rockt104[/i]
[B]
Afpdl,
Not sure, never heard or saw any evidence of rubbing?? But it def looks like it should rub being that low.
Kevin [/B][/QUOTE]
Take out one of your front tires and look up in the fender liner. If its rubbing there you wouldnt hear very much.
[B]
Afpdl,
Not sure, never heard or saw any evidence of rubbing?? But it def looks like it should rub being that low.
Kevin [/B][/QUOTE]
Take out one of your front tires and look up in the fender liner. If its rubbing there you wouldnt hear very much.
| rockt104 | 03-30-2004 02:34 PM |
I know my car does not rub...I just meant I dont know why your friend's car rubs. My springs ar 7Kg up front too?
Kevin
Kevin
| CivicSiRacer | 03-30-2004 11:46 PM |
Kevin - just looking at your car I think you might be too low in my opinion. I was having problems being a "po-go stick" when my car was so low the tops of the tires were in the fenderwells. I ran out of shock travel and just bounced off the bump stops.
I'm wondering if you can park your car on boards to see how much travel you have by sliding underneath the car.
Other thing is where are your Azenis at. After some thinking this weekend and last I think less tread you need more air because the Azenis blocks act like a reinforcement of the tire. Once the blocks start to disappear you have less blocks to help stabilize the tire.
For instance my last set (shaved but 1 year old) I used at Maple Grove and NEPA they had 1-2mm of tread left. I was up to 45psi front and 50-52psi rear on my 2500lbs car.
Now that I switched over to another set of Azenis (one year old not shaved) with 4mm of tread I was down to 37f and 43r pressures. I think if I had one more run I would have been down into 35f/42r and my times kept dropping everytime I dropped my pressures. Did you notice when I started dropping 1lb of pressure my times dropped .2-.3 seconds?
Hope that helps.
I'm wondering if you can park your car on boards to see how much travel you have by sliding underneath the car.
Other thing is where are your Azenis at. After some thinking this weekend and last I think less tread you need more air because the Azenis blocks act like a reinforcement of the tire. Once the blocks start to disappear you have less blocks to help stabilize the tire.
For instance my last set (shaved but 1 year old) I used at Maple Grove and NEPA they had 1-2mm of tread left. I was up to 45psi front and 50-52psi rear on my 2500lbs car.
Now that I switched over to another set of Azenis (one year old not shaved) with 4mm of tread I was down to 37f and 43r pressures. I think if I had one more run I would have been down into 35f/42r and my times kept dropping everytime I dropped my pressures. Did you notice when I started dropping 1lb of pressure my times dropped .2-.3 seconds?
Hope that helps.
| Scoobie Doogie | 03-31-2004 01:04 AM |
Kev,
When I drive your car I did think it was under dampened up front. Just like I said at the event on Sunday. Take what Tom and KC and Mike say and tune that puppy up. You have come a long way in a short time. Get that car tweaked and some more seat time and you'll be hanging with Tom and maybe KC in Topeka! (cuz I know KC's wagon is fastar)
Dave
When I drive your car I did think it was under dampened up front. Just like I said at the event on Sunday. Take what Tom and KC and Mike say and tune that puppy up. You have come a long way in a short time. Get that car tweaked and some more seat time and you'll be hanging with Tom and maybe KC in Topeka! (cuz I know KC's wagon is fastar)
Dave
| rockt104 | 03-31-2004 09:12 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Scoobie Doogie [/i]
[B]Get that car tweaked and some more seat time and you'll be hanging with Tom and maybe KC in Topeka! (cuz I know KC's wagon is fastar)[/B][/QUOTE]
:lol:
I agree with you, if your measuring "seat time" in years :p
[B]Get that car tweaked and some more seat time and you'll be hanging with Tom and maybe KC in Topeka! (cuz I know KC's wagon is fastar)[/B][/QUOTE]
:lol:
I agree with you, if your measuring "seat time" in years :p
| KC | 03-31-2004 09:26 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rockt104[/i]
[B] :lol:
I agree with you, if your measuring "seat time" in years :p [/B][/QUOTE]
This is year number 7 I think for me. Seat time helps. :)
[B] :lol:
I agree with you, if your measuring "seat time" in years :p [/B][/QUOTE]
This is year number 7 I think for me. Seat time helps. :)
| trhoppe | 03-31-2004 10:02 AM |
KC = old man with a wagon....
trhoppe = n00b
-Tom
trhoppe = n00b
-Tom
| DrBiggly | 03-31-2004 10:22 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] KC = old man with a wagon....
trhoppe = n00b
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Who says n00bs can't be fast too? ;)
[B] KC = old man with a wagon....
trhoppe = n00b
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Who says n00bs can't be fast too? ;)
| rockt104 | 04-02-2004 08:30 AM |
Got a call yesterday...I got into the evo school saturday in WDC Region. So having all that talent and experience in my car should provide me with some good feedback...plus, I might actually learn something about driving:lol:
Thanks again for the advice:banana:
Kevin
Thanks again for the advice:banana:
Kevin
| CivicSiRacer | 04-02-2004 11:18 AM |
And you are going to be killer on Sunday then. :)
| jmott | 04-02-2004 11:22 AM |
it could just be the friends wagon had better tire pressure settings or maybe fresher azenis
tires have huge dramatic effects on laptimes
stiff suspensions have pretty subtle effects (relatively speaking)
tires have huge dramatic effects on laptimes
stiff suspensions have pretty subtle effects (relatively speaking)
| rockt104 | 04-02-2004 12:40 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jmott [/i]
[B]it could just be the friends wagon had better tire pressure settings or maybe fresher azenis
tires have huge dramatic effects on laptimes
stiff suspensions have pretty subtle effects (relatively speaking) [/B][/QUOTE]
I definitely agree...but I pretty much eliminated those as variables cuz we both bought the tires new this winter. And he is a real n00b, so I told him what pressures to set them at. So we essentially had exact rubber and pressures. That would eliminate any major effect that tire could have on the time diff.
Kevin
[B]it could just be the friends wagon had better tire pressure settings or maybe fresher azenis
tires have huge dramatic effects on laptimes
stiff suspensions have pretty subtle effects (relatively speaking) [/B][/QUOTE]
I definitely agree...but I pretty much eliminated those as variables cuz we both bought the tires new this winter. And he is a real n00b, so I told him what pressures to set them at. So we essentially had exact rubber and pressures. That would eliminate any major effect that tire could have on the time diff.
Kevin
| rockt104 | 04-02-2004 12:41 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by CivicSiRacer [/i]
[B]And you are going to be killer on Sunday then. :) [/B][/QUOTE]
I hope so, but I would settle for just being as quick as I finished the season last year:)
[B]And you are going to be killer on Sunday then. :) [/B][/QUOTE]
I hope so, but I would settle for just being as quick as I finished the season last year:)
| CivicSiRacer | 04-02-2004 01:27 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rockt104 [/i]
[B]I hope so, but I would settle for just being as quick as I finished the season last year:) [/B][/QUOTE]
Hrm. Wondering how many miles do you have on your Azenis right now? What were you fuel tanks at at the event on Sunday. And also what are the differences in your alignments. What's yours and what is Rob's?
[B]I hope so, but I would settle for just being as quick as I finished the season last year:) [/B][/QUOTE]
Hrm. Wondering how many miles do you have on your Azenis right now? What were you fuel tanks at at the event on Sunday. And also what are the differences in your alignments. What's yours and what is Rob's?
| rockt104 | 04-02-2004 01:46 PM |
Bob limped to the gas station after fun runs...I crawled:lol:
He had stock, or close, settings for alignment...IIRC -.25 camber front and around -1.25 in the rear...little of no toe front or rear. God knows how much his setting have drifted over time though.
I understand there are a lot of things that contribute to the overall feel of a car, but I am pretty sure that it is a suspension issue...not a weight or balance thing. I just bought used Hotchkis bars and endlinks in case I need a plan B.
I just wish I ran his car that day...I would have been 3rd in pax after that single run.:p
Kevin
Edit: Maybe 1000 miles and 2 Autox's.
He had stock, or close, settings for alignment...IIRC -.25 camber front and around -1.25 in the rear...little of no toe front or rear. God knows how much his setting have drifted over time though.
I understand there are a lot of things that contribute to the overall feel of a car, but I am pretty sure that it is a suspension issue...not a weight or balance thing. I just bought used Hotchkis bars and endlinks in case I need a plan B.
I just wish I ran his car that day...I would have been 3rd in pax after that single run.:p
Kevin
Edit: Maybe 1000 miles and 2 Autox's.
| Soontobe | 04-02-2004 01:49 PM |
Is it possible to "hop" from the rebound being OVER damped? As in not letting the spring rebound fast enough to settle for the next bump in hte surface.
Couple weeks ago I did my first auto-x after I got my suspension in (400# GC Coils with Koni inserts) and I just left it at full stiff all around. I didn't have any time to change anything as I just had got it all done the saturday before the event.
Anyways, on low speed tight corners I would "hop." Or atleast that is what I would call it. Kinda felt like bouncing, but not a springy bounce, but a skip almost. Think its cause I had it on full stiff? And the Koni's only adjust rebound, so that seems to make sense.
Anyone have some input on this?
Couple weeks ago I did my first auto-x after I got my suspension in (400# GC Coils with Koni inserts) and I just left it at full stiff all around. I didn't have any time to change anything as I just had got it all done the saturday before the event.
Anyways, on low speed tight corners I would "hop." Or atleast that is what I would call it. Kinda felt like bouncing, but not a springy bounce, but a skip almost. Think its cause I had it on full stiff? And the Koni's only adjust rebound, so that seems to make sense.
Anyone have some input on this?
| leecea | 04-02-2004 02:00 PM |
Rockt104,
I saw your comment about new bars and endlinks and it reminded me of this quote from another thread active in this forum...
"Mako has tons of money in his setup and I think he has too many different pieces that are all fighting with each other at this stage. A bigger rear sway bar to offset the big front one, camber plates to offset understeer, coilovers that don't seem to be doing the job, rear camber dialed up to offset oversteer, etc. He's lost in a myriad of fixes and nothing seems to be working together. Each part is fixing a problem that is perhaps caused by a previous part. Know what I mean?"
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm worried that you could get into a similar cycle of adding/changing stuff to counter something that went wrong during the last update.
If you were faster in a car with no suspension mods, maybe some un-modding is in order or some time going back to look at the possibility that your mods are conflicting with each other.
Hey, as I said, I know nothing about this stuff, but maybe a different perspective can help.
I saw your comment about new bars and endlinks and it reminded me of this quote from another thread active in this forum...
"Mako has tons of money in his setup and I think he has too many different pieces that are all fighting with each other at this stage. A bigger rear sway bar to offset the big front one, camber plates to offset understeer, coilovers that don't seem to be doing the job, rear camber dialed up to offset oversteer, etc. He's lost in a myriad of fixes and nothing seems to be working together. Each part is fixing a problem that is perhaps caused by a previous part. Know what I mean?"
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm worried that you could get into a similar cycle of adding/changing stuff to counter something that went wrong during the last update.
If you were faster in a car with no suspension mods, maybe some un-modding is in order or some time going back to look at the possibility that your mods are conflicting with each other.
Hey, as I said, I know nothing about this stuff, but maybe a different perspective can help.
| rockt104 | 04-02-2004 03:00 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by leecea [/i]
[B]
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm worried that you could get into a similar cycle of adding/changing stuff to counter something that went wrong during the last update.
If you were faster in a car with no suspension mods, maybe some un-modding is in order or some time going back to look at the possibility that your mods are conflicting with each other.[/B][/QUOTE]
Hey, dont worry about it...I think it is a valid point, and i will listen to anyone at least once:) my excuse is that I have had this basic setup for a year, and not changed a thing. Now, convinced there is a problem, I am going to try every procedural and set-up change I can this weekend to see if things can be corrected through settings and different driving. if and only if that does not work I will try the front bar, i am not gonna just start changing 5 things at once...that is when you get in trouble IMO. Thanks for the input.
Kevin
[B]
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm worried that you could get into a similar cycle of adding/changing stuff to counter something that went wrong during the last update.
If you were faster in a car with no suspension mods, maybe some un-modding is in order or some time going back to look at the possibility that your mods are conflicting with each other.[/B][/QUOTE]
Hey, dont worry about it...I think it is a valid point, and i will listen to anyone at least once:) my excuse is that I have had this basic setup for a year, and not changed a thing. Now, convinced there is a problem, I am going to try every procedural and set-up change I can this weekend to see if things can be corrected through settings and different driving. if and only if that does not work I will try the front bar, i am not gonna just start changing 5 things at once...that is when you get in trouble IMO. Thanks for the input.
Kevin
| jmott | 04-02-2004 03:37 PM |
yep
same thing on my scion
stiffen up the rebound enough and it will hop.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Soontobe [/i]
[B]Is it possible to "hop" from the rebound being OVER damped? As in not letting the spring rebound fast enough to settle for the next bump in hte surface.
Couple weeks ago I did my first auto-x after I got my suspension in (400# GC Coils with Koni inserts) and I just left it at full stiff all around. I didn't have any time to change anything as I just had got it all done the saturday before the event.
Anyways, on low speed tight corners I would "hop." Or atleast that is what I would call it. Kinda felt like bouncing, but not a springy bounce, but a skip almost. Think its cause I had it on full stiff? And the Koni's only adjust rebound, so that seems to make sense.
Anyone have some input on this? [/B][/QUOTE]
same thing on my scion
stiffen up the rebound enough and it will hop.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Soontobe [/i]
[B]Is it possible to "hop" from the rebound being OVER damped? As in not letting the spring rebound fast enough to settle for the next bump in hte surface.
Couple weeks ago I did my first auto-x after I got my suspension in (400# GC Coils with Koni inserts) and I just left it at full stiff all around. I didn't have any time to change anything as I just had got it all done the saturday before the event.
Anyways, on low speed tight corners I would "hop." Or atleast that is what I would call it. Kinda felt like bouncing, but not a springy bounce, but a skip almost. Think its cause I had it on full stiff? And the Koni's only adjust rebound, so that seems to make sense.
Anyone have some input on this? [/B][/QUOTE]
| BriDrive | 04-02-2004 03:46 PM |
Hmmm...Scion XA...Z06....Scion XA....Z06....Scion XA....Z06...darn it ! I just can't decide ! :lol:
| CivicSiRacer | 04-02-2004 04:02 PM |
Well let me know tonight if you need to use Ken's alignment plates. I borrowed them today so I can fix my 1/2" toe OUT!
| jmott | 04-02-2004 05:01 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BriDrive [/i]
[B]Hmmm...Scion XA...Z06....Scion XA....Z06....Scion XA....Z06...darn it ! I just can't decide ! :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
scion wins
32mpg in stop and go
vs 12 for the z06
=)
im about to pick up a BMW 325i for a track whore
[B]Hmmm...Scion XA...Z06....Scion XA....Z06....Scion XA....Z06...darn it ! I just can't decide ! :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
scion wins
32mpg in stop and go
vs 12 for the z06
=)
im about to pick up a BMW 325i for a track whore
| afpdl | 04-04-2004 07:05 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jmott[/i]
[B]
im about to pick up a BMW 325i for a track whore [/B][/QUOTE]
:huh: You continue to baffel me :lol: Can I whore it out too?
[B]
im about to pick up a BMW 325i for a track whore [/B][/QUOTE]
:huh: You continue to baffel me :lol: Can I whore it out too?
| CivicSiRacer | 04-04-2004 08:49 PM |
Well Kevin I think you redeemed yourself today. You were WHOLY STINKIN fast! The Evo school did you some good :)
| sdecker | 04-05-2004 07:23 AM |
So, how about a writeup on the Evolution school? ;)
| BSLICKOH | 04-05-2004 08:05 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sdecker [/i]
[B]So, how about a writeup on the Evolution school? ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
[URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=525898]Clicky[/URL]
[B]So, how about a writeup on the Evolution school? ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
[URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=525898]Clicky[/URL]
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