| Timber wolf | 11-14-2005 04:05 PM |
06 STI at the autocross (observations)
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Firstly, I am not that avid an autocrosser, so my times were merely decent... I can say that I was consistent running 57s. With some more comfort and time, 55s where achievable. I did not get enough runs in to achieve comfort with the course... In fact, I ended up spending more time concentrating on not going off course, that I never get around to prepping for specific turns. I just muslced through the course which eats precious time. Auto Xing is clearly an art form, and different from road racing. This is a humbling experience. :confused:
I can say that the Evo MR guys were significantly faster than me, running 53s. Granted most of the drivers have spent more time at these types of events, but I would still say the Evo is questionably a better car for tight courses.
Positives: Great acceleration and controlability. The car is just easy to drive!
I could easily enduce oversteer via throttle control. The tires did their job, and screamed when they were at their limit. I played with the DCCD, and noticed little difference so just kept her in Auto.
At the limits of adhesion, the car was easy to drift through long sweepers... This was actually more fun than getting through quickly.
Negatives: The course was a 2nd gear course, but I ended up bouncing off the limiter due to shortness of gearing. I needed another 1000 rpms. And 3rd gear only slowed me down.
Brakes did not have enough bite for this application. I expect way more from Brembos. My M3 and Mcoupe had more bite it seemed.
I did encounter understeer going too hot into corners (when the brakes didn't slow me enough), but this never got out of hand.
Launching this car well on a consistent basis can be tricky...
The front end needs more bite somehow.
Conclusion: This car is awesome for this type of application, but would really thrive on a road course.(next season)
I think that some Hawk or Potterfield R4 pads, a beefier front sway bar and 245s all around would really make this car a serious threat, as it is already. :)
I can't wait for another go at it!
I can say that the Evo MR guys were significantly faster than me, running 53s. Granted most of the drivers have spent more time at these types of events, but I would still say the Evo is questionably a better car for tight courses.
Positives: Great acceleration and controlability. The car is just easy to drive!
I could easily enduce oversteer via throttle control. The tires did their job, and screamed when they were at their limit. I played with the DCCD, and noticed little difference so just kept her in Auto.
At the limits of adhesion, the car was easy to drift through long sweepers... This was actually more fun than getting through quickly.
Negatives: The course was a 2nd gear course, but I ended up bouncing off the limiter due to shortness of gearing. I needed another 1000 rpms. And 3rd gear only slowed me down.
Brakes did not have enough bite for this application. I expect way more from Brembos. My M3 and Mcoupe had more bite it seemed.
I did encounter understeer going too hot into corners (when the brakes didn't slow me enough), but this never got out of hand.
Launching this car well on a consistent basis can be tricky...
The front end needs more bite somehow.
Conclusion: This car is awesome for this type of application, but would really thrive on a road course.(next season)
I think that some Hawk or Potterfield R4 pads, a beefier front sway bar and 245s all around would really make this car a serious threat, as it is already. :)
I can't wait for another go at it!
| jmott | 11-14-2005 04:40 PM |
What road racing have you done and how do you typically place?
[QUOTE=Timber wolf]Firstly, I am not that avid an autocrosser, so my times were merely decent... I can say that I was consistent running 57s. With some more comfort and time, 55s where achievable. I did not get enough runs in to achieve comfort with the course... In fact, I ended up spending more time concentrating on not going off course, that I never get around to prepping for specific turns. I just muslced through the course which eats precious time. Auto Xing is clearly an art form, and different from road racing. This is a humbling experience. :confused:
I can say that the Evo MR guys were significantly faster than me, running 53s. Granted most of the drivers have spent more time at these types of events, but I would still say the Evo is questionably a better car for tight courses.
Positives: Great acceleration and controlability. The car is just easy to drive!
I could easily enduce oversteer via throttle control. The tires did their job, and screamed when they were at their limit. I played with the DCCD, and noticed little difference so just kept her in Auto.
At the limits of adhesion, the car was easy to drift through long sweepers... This was actually more fun than getting through quickly.
Negatives: The course was a 2nd gear course, but I ended up bouncing off the limiter due to shortness of gearing. I needed another 1000 rpms. And 3rd gear only slowed me down.
Brakes did not have enough bite for this application. I expect way more from Brembos. My M3 and Mcoupe had more bite it seemed.
I did encounter understeer going too hot into corners (when the brakes didn't slow me enough), but this never got out of hand.
Launching this car well on a consistent basis can be tricky...
The front end needs more bite somehow.
Conclusion: This car is awesome for this type of application, but would really thrive on a road course.(next season)
I think that some Hawk or Potterfield R4 pads, a beefier front sway bar and 245s all around would really make this car a serious threat, as it is already. :)
I can't wait to for another go at it![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Timber wolf]Firstly, I am not that avid an autocrosser, so my times were merely decent... I can say that I was consistent running 57s. With some more comfort and time, 55s where achievable. I did not get enough runs in to achieve comfort with the course... In fact, I ended up spending more time concentrating on not going off course, that I never get around to prepping for specific turns. I just muslced through the course which eats precious time. Auto Xing is clearly an art form, and different from road racing. This is a humbling experience. :confused:
I can say that the Evo MR guys were significantly faster than me, running 53s. Granted most of the drivers have spent more time at these types of events, but I would still say the Evo is questionably a better car for tight courses.
Positives: Great acceleration and controlability. The car is just easy to drive!
I could easily enduce oversteer via throttle control. The tires did their job, and screamed when they were at their limit. I played with the DCCD, and noticed little difference so just kept her in Auto.
At the limits of adhesion, the car was easy to drift through long sweepers... This was actually more fun than getting through quickly.
Negatives: The course was a 2nd gear course, but I ended up bouncing off the limiter due to shortness of gearing. I needed another 1000 rpms. And 3rd gear only slowed me down.
Brakes did not have enough bite for this application. I expect way more from Brembos. My M3 and Mcoupe had more bite it seemed.
I did encounter understeer going too hot into corners (when the brakes didn't slow me enough), but this never got out of hand.
Launching this car well on a consistent basis can be tricky...
The front end needs more bite somehow.
Conclusion: This car is awesome for this type of application, but would really thrive on a road course.(next season)
I think that some Hawk or Potterfield R4 pads, a beefier front sway bar and 245s all around would really make this car a serious threat, as it is already. :)
I can't wait to for another go at it![/QUOTE]
| Timber wolf | 11-14-2005 04:42 PM |
Have not done any racing. Just open track days with the BMW club.
| jmott | 11-14-2005 04:45 PM |
[QUOTE=Timber wolf]Have not done any racing. Just open track days with the BMW club.[/QUOTE]
Aha, I suspected that.
Autocross is not all that different of an art than road racing.
It simply is more likely to expose a lack of skills since
1. There is actual timed competition
2. Horsepower won't make up much time for you
I suspect if you stick with autocrossing until you are competitive, you will find yourself much more comfortable and faster on the big tracks as well. Its hard to get a feel for the limit at a track day when a mistake might kill you and or ruin your car.
Aha, I suspected that.
Autocross is not all that different of an art than road racing.
It simply is more likely to expose a lack of skills since
1. There is actual timed competition
2. Horsepower won't make up much time for you
I suspect if you stick with autocrossing until you are competitive, you will find yourself much more comfortable and faster on the big tracks as well. Its hard to get a feel for the limit at a track day when a mistake might kill you and or ruin your car.
| Timber wolf | 11-14-2005 05:06 PM |
[QUOTE=jmott]Aha, I suspected that.
Autocross is not all that different of an art than road racing.
It simply is more likely to expose a lack of skills since
1. There is actual timed competition
2. Horsepower won't make up much time for you
I suspect if you stick with autocrossing until you are competitive, you will find yourself much more comfortable and faster on the big tracks as well. Its hard to get a feel for the limit at a track day when a mistake might kill you and or ruin your car.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the insight dad. :rolleyes:
Interestingly enough, I was right with a few prepped cars who's drivers have done at least 10 TRACK events this season, but were challenged with the technicals of the course. Please don't try to belittle me.
Autocross is not all that different of an art than road racing.
It simply is more likely to expose a lack of skills since
1. There is actual timed competition
2. Horsepower won't make up much time for you
I suspect if you stick with autocrossing until you are competitive, you will find yourself much more comfortable and faster on the big tracks as well. Its hard to get a feel for the limit at a track day when a mistake might kill you and or ruin your car.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the insight dad. :rolleyes:
Interestingly enough, I was right with a few prepped cars who's drivers have done at least 10 TRACK events this season, but were challenged with the technicals of the course. Please don't try to belittle me.
| jmott | 11-14-2005 05:32 PM |
[QUOTE=Timber wolf]Thanks for the insight dad. :rolleyes:
Interestingly enough, I was right with a few prepped cars who's drivers have done at least 10 TRACK events this season, but were challenged with the technicals of the course. Please don't try to belittle me.[/QUOTE]
I don't really mean to belittle you, it sounds like you sucked a lot less at your first event than most people do, no doubt thanks to your track day experience.
I'm just saying that people with successful competitive road racing experience tend to do extremely well at autocrossing too, and trying to point out that *possibly* you might have some things to learn about driving and that the skills will cross over from big track to autocross and vice versa.
I know I still have *lots* to learn and I'm not 2 seconds slower than cars in my class =)
but hell I only speak from experience so I dunno what thats worth.
Interestingly enough, I was right with a few prepped cars who's drivers have done at least 10 TRACK events this season, but were challenged with the technicals of the course. Please don't try to belittle me.[/QUOTE]
I don't really mean to belittle you, it sounds like you sucked a lot less at your first event than most people do, no doubt thanks to your track day experience.
I'm just saying that people with successful competitive road racing experience tend to do extremely well at autocrossing too, and trying to point out that *possibly* you might have some things to learn about driving and that the skills will cross over from big track to autocross and vice versa.
I know I still have *lots* to learn and I'm not 2 seconds slower than cars in my class =)
but hell I only speak from experience so I dunno what thats worth.
| KC | 11-14-2005 05:33 PM |
[QUOTE=Timber wolf]Thanks for the insight dad. :rolleyes:
Interestingly enough, I was right with a few prepped cars who's drivers have done at least 10 TRACK events this season, but were challenged with the technicals of the course. Please don't try to belittle me.[/QUOTE]
Somebody pee in your cheerios this morning or is it that time of month for you?
Auto-x isn't easy. There's a saying that goes something like this:
"If autocross were any easier, they'd call it road racing."
jmott only brushed on a few 'finer' points of auto-x. That, and you don't know the car... yet. Auto-x WILL help you become a better driver on the roadcourses. Just the way it is, and has been, for generations. If you want to go and think you were lectured, you got some learning still to do about 1) the sport of auto-x and 2) this forum.
He was not belittling you....
[Sarcasm]
Your reaction to jmott was way off base... junior. ;) Now apologize to him, or go to your room with no desert tonight!
If that's how you think you were treated, then you'll do what I told you becuase you obviously don't know any better.
[/Sarcasm]
Now... THAT is belittling. :)
Interestingly enough, I was right with a few prepped cars who's drivers have done at least 10 TRACK events this season, but were challenged with the technicals of the course. Please don't try to belittle me.[/QUOTE]
Somebody pee in your cheerios this morning or is it that time of month for you?
Auto-x isn't easy. There's a saying that goes something like this:
"If autocross were any easier, they'd call it road racing."
jmott only brushed on a few 'finer' points of auto-x. That, and you don't know the car... yet. Auto-x WILL help you become a better driver on the roadcourses. Just the way it is, and has been, for generations. If you want to go and think you were lectured, you got some learning still to do about 1) the sport of auto-x and 2) this forum.
He was not belittling you....
[Sarcasm]
Your reaction to jmott was way off base... junior. ;) Now apologize to him, or go to your room with no desert tonight!
If that's how you think you were treated, then you'll do what I told you becuase you obviously don't know any better.
[/Sarcasm]
Now... THAT is belittling. :)
| PKer | 11-14-2005 05:39 PM |
[QUOTE=Timber wolf]Thanks for the insight dad. :rolleyes:
Interestingly enough, I was right with a few prepped cars who's drivers have done at least 10 TRACK events this season, but were challenged with the technicals of the course. Please don't try to belittle me.[/QUOTE]
Well here I was typing away when I scroll down to review and I see KC's response.
Thanks Dad! ;)
One thing to add: car setup is completely different for autocross, an autocross car would probably be so loose on a road course that you find it scary.
IBmakospic
Interestingly enough, I was right with a few prepped cars who's drivers have done at least 10 TRACK events this season, but were challenged with the technicals of the course. Please don't try to belittle me.[/QUOTE]
Well here I was typing away when I scroll down to review and I see KC's response.
Thanks Dad! ;)
One thing to add: car setup is completely different for autocross, an autocross car would probably be so loose on a road course that you find it scary.
IBmakospic
| PKer | 11-14-2005 05:43 PM |
[QUOTE=KC] desert [/QUOTE]
[OT][size=7]DESSERT[size=2][/OT][/size][/size]
Remember, you only want to go to the DESERT once, but you want seconds of DESSERT.:lol:
[OT][size=7]DESSERT[size=2][/OT][/size][/size]
Remember, you only want to go to the DESERT once, but you want seconds of DESSERT.:lol:
| KC | 11-14-2005 06:39 PM |
my ss key ssometimes ticks and ometimess doesn't work at all. :devil:
It's a [B]mute[/B] point. :lol:
It's a [B]mute[/B] point. :lol:
| LOLSTi | 11-14-2005 06:49 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]
It's a [B]mute[/B] point. :lol:[/QUOTE]
huh? i couldn't hear you. :lol:
It's a [B]mute[/B] point. :lol:[/QUOTE]
huh? i couldn't hear you. :lol:
| theicewall | 11-14-2005 06:57 PM |
Well... I agree that AutoX and road racing are both very challenging, but AutoX also involves an element not really present in road racing and that is reacting very very quickly but at a slow smooth pace, whereas in road racing there is generally 4-5x the amount of time between corners allowing you much more time to focus on each individual corner and set the car up just the way you like it. In autoX your mind has to be lightening quick, your body must be very swift, but you must be smoother than butter or you do end up goin too hot into corners, trying desperately to stay on course, and of course muscle'ing the car through the turns instead of having clean turn ins.
Drifting is almost always slower than slowing down a half a mile an hour more and getting better turn in, and getting back on throttle sooner. Though there are certain times when early power on power slides in a minor way can help you build boost and get out of a corner more quickly.
In autoX, sometimes the car that looks the slowest wins.. that's because just as important as it is to go fast, there are parts of the course like a hairpin, etc. when you have to know when and how much to go slow.
You didn't fair that badly, a lot of people absolutely blow their first attempt at autoX, stick with it, GO FOR RIDE ALONGS>>> LEMME REPEAT... TAKE EVERY RIDE ALONG YOU CAN proided the driver is more experienced or at the same level at you. You will learn more from others! Practice, practice, practice, and dont give up, EVER!
Drifting is almost always slower than slowing down a half a mile an hour more and getting better turn in, and getting back on throttle sooner. Though there are certain times when early power on power slides in a minor way can help you build boost and get out of a corner more quickly.
In autoX, sometimes the car that looks the slowest wins.. that's because just as important as it is to go fast, there are parts of the course like a hairpin, etc. when you have to know when and how much to go slow.
You didn't fair that badly, a lot of people absolutely blow their first attempt at autoX, stick with it, GO FOR RIDE ALONGS>>> LEMME REPEAT... TAKE EVERY RIDE ALONG YOU CAN proided the driver is more experienced or at the same level at you. You will learn more from others! Practice, practice, practice, and dont give up, EVER!
| theicewall | 11-14-2005 07:00 PM |
Also, just as important as being fast is consistency. For your first run just try and get down a good time at 4/5 what you think you can do. Be consistent and know that you can always turn it up a notch next run. You don't want to be the guy who gets a nice score, then a terrible score, then a decent score, then an offcourse, and then one competitive score. You need to build both speed and consistency equally.
PS- if you havent hit a cone yet, you arent going fast enough... through the fast sections that is.
Good luck cone basher!
PS- if you havent hit a cone yet, you arent going fast enough... through the fast sections that is.
Good luck cone basher!
| Timber wolf | 11-14-2005 07:10 PM |
This is far from my being my first Autox... My first in the STI yes!
I have enjoyed being quicker than many higher hp cars with only my 325is in autox events here in NY. I just don't get many chances to get out there and practice.
If I misunderstood comments above, my apologies. (just noticed lots of flaming here vs porsche, bmw and corvette forums)
I have enjoyed being quicker than many higher hp cars with only my 325is in autox events here in NY. I just don't get many chances to get out there and practice.
If I misunderstood comments above, my apologies. (just noticed lots of flaming here vs porsche, bmw and corvette forums)
| Timber wolf | 11-14-2005 07:12 PM |
[QUOTE=theicewall]
Good luck cone basher![/QUOTE]
Didn't even bash one... :disco:
Good luck cone basher![/QUOTE]
Didn't even bash one... :disco:
| tuskenraider | 11-14-2005 07:50 PM |
[QUOTE](just noticed lots of flaming here vs porsche, bmw and corvette forums)[/QUOTE] Yeah, you'll find that here...........most children can't afford the above mentioned cars.
[QUOTE]Didn't even bash one...[/QUOTE] Cause you didn't drive hard enough! ;)
[QUOTE]Didn't even bash one...[/QUOTE] Cause you didn't drive hard enough! ;)
| Timber wolf | 11-14-2005 08:19 PM |
[QUOTE=tuskenraider]Yeah, you'll find that here...........most children can't afford the above mentioned cars.;[/QUOTE]
I guess that happens to us 30 somethings when we buy something geared towards a younger demographic. :D
[QUOTE=tuskenraider]Cause you didn't drive hard enough! ;)[/QUOTE]
The STI is not that sexy... :lol:
I guess that happens to us 30 somethings when we buy something geared towards a younger demographic. :D
[QUOTE=tuskenraider]Cause you didn't drive hard enough! ;)[/QUOTE]
The STI is not that sexy... :lol:
| makofoto | 11-14-2005 08:29 PM |
I did some instructional runs with some fairly new AX'ers and their STI's this weekend. They all under used their brakes ... and/or broke too late ... and thus set-up massive understeer. Their problems were not related to the brakes nor the handling of the car ... but instead to the nut behind the wheel. I also took a ride with one of our better drivers and even though I'm no slouch ... I was impressed how well he used his (BMW) brakes. My first race run on Sunday found me locking them all up and sliding past the hairpin. Can happen to all of us ... I didn't blame the brakes.
Timber ... I know National Champ AX drivers that use stock brakes and pads. They don't blame their brakes. :D
Timber ... I know National Champ AX drivers that use stock brakes and pads. They don't blame their brakes. :D
| Scoobie Doogie | 11-14-2005 08:35 PM |
[QUOTE=tuskenraider]Yeah, you'll find that here...........most children can't afford the above mentioned cars.
Cause you didn't drive hard enough! ;)[/QUOTE]
It wasn't flaming. Nobody called you stupid or called you a bad name or said you were a this or that. This Motorsports forum is.....direct and to the point. Not much sugar coating here. Thicken up your skin a bit and you'll learn a lot from some of the crumudgens here. Keep in mind; I am not saying KC is crumudgeny :devil:
DMac
Cause you didn't drive hard enough! ;)[/QUOTE]
It wasn't flaming. Nobody called you stupid or called you a bad name or said you were a this or that. This Motorsports forum is.....direct and to the point. Not much sugar coating here. Thicken up your skin a bit and you'll learn a lot from some of the crumudgens here. Keep in mind; I am not saying KC is crumudgeny :devil:
DMac
| Timber wolf | 11-14-2005 08:41 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]I did some instructional runs with some fairly new AX'ers and their STI's this weekend. They all under used their brakes ... and/or broke too late ... and thus set-up massive understeer. Their problems were not related to the brakes nor the handling of the car ... but instead to the nut behind the wheel. I also took a ride with one of our better drivers and even though I'm no slouch ... I was impressed how well he used his (BMW) brakes. My first race run on Sunday found me locking them all up and sliding past the hairpin. Can happen to all of us ... I didn't blame the brakes.
Timber ... I know National Champ AX drivers that use stock brakes and pads. They don't blame their brakes. :D[/QUOTE]
OK this has gotten out of hand. I'm out..
Timber ... I know National Champ AX drivers that use stock brakes and pads. They don't blame their brakes. :D[/QUOTE]
OK this has gotten out of hand. I'm out..
| trhoppe | 11-14-2005 08:42 PM |
We just tell you how it is instead of kissing your ass like people do at open BMW or Porsche track days. There is a reason I would catch and pass people in their GT2s and 911TTs like they were my bitches while driving a 3200lb 140hp NA Porsche 944. You sucked at your first autox, take it, learn more, get over it.
-Tom
-Tom
| trhoppe | 11-14-2005 08:43 PM |
[QUOTE=Timber wolf]OK this has gotten out of hand. I'm out..[/QUOTE]
More room for us! :banana:
-Tom
More room for us! :banana:
-Tom
| AndrewSS | 11-14-2005 08:52 PM |
wow... i thought this was good constructive critizism... i didnt see much rude replies, oh well :(
| BlkWRXWag | 11-14-2005 09:04 PM |
OMG - Mako, perhaps one of the friendliest people on the forum, made someone leave due to his "harsh" criticism... too funny!
| KC | 11-14-2005 09:11 PM |
I guess he like the rudeness more than the constructive critisism... but then again... he said he doesn't like the flaming... I'm confused.
Let's see...I'll start with my background in auto-x...4 time Solo-II trophy winner at Nats. 2003 STX National Champ for both Solo-II and ProSolo. 4th in BS this year. Auto-xing for 8 years now.
I would be the 1st to call someone out for giving bad advice on auto-xing on the net (not mods... just how to auto-x).
I haven't seen anything of that sort in this thread.
Like Tom said... we don't kiss ass and hand out 'attaboys' for medochre results.
EVERYONE including myself, can always learn to drive better in auto-x. Even the Daddios and Aros of the world still say they are constantly learning. You can only learn through constructive critisism.
[QUOTE]I guess that happens to us 30 somethings when we buy something geared towards a younger demographic. [/QUOTE]
:lol: And what the hell does that mean? I'm 36 and Mako.... I'm not even gonna GUESS!
If you want to really further your skills: [url="http://www.autocross.com/evolution"]http://www.autocross.com/evolution[/url]
Go there... find a school/date near you and learn from the best.
Let's see...I'll start with my background in auto-x...4 time Solo-II trophy winner at Nats. 2003 STX National Champ for both Solo-II and ProSolo. 4th in BS this year. Auto-xing for 8 years now.
I would be the 1st to call someone out for giving bad advice on auto-xing on the net (not mods... just how to auto-x).
I haven't seen anything of that sort in this thread.
Like Tom said... we don't kiss ass and hand out 'attaboys' for medochre results.
EVERYONE including myself, can always learn to drive better in auto-x. Even the Daddios and Aros of the world still say they are constantly learning. You can only learn through constructive critisism.
[QUOTE]I guess that happens to us 30 somethings when we buy something geared towards a younger demographic. [/QUOTE]
:lol: And what the hell does that mean? I'm 36 and Mako.... I'm not even gonna GUESS!
If you want to really further your skills: [url="http://www.autocross.com/evolution"]http://www.autocross.com/evolution[/url]
Go there... find a school/date near you and learn from the best.
| trhoppe | 11-14-2005 09:22 PM |
Someone is older then KC? I didn't think that was possible
-Tom
-Tom
| BlkWRXWag | 11-14-2005 09:25 PM |
40 here, but Mako's got me beat:D
| theicewall | 11-14-2005 09:56 PM |
And he will continue to be slow because he wont take any of the advice we just gave him. I have only been in AutoX for 2 seasons, and I try to be a sponge. I'll try or evaluate any advice I can get from a trusted source.
| ghostshadow | 11-14-2005 10:45 PM |
hey timberwolf-
i was at this event also (one of the two AS white STI's). were you in the crystal grey 06? orchard beach is an amazing lot that we sadly lose for good it seems. however, wscc puts on a great event and hopefully monticello works out for next year.
[QUOTE=Timber wolf]I can say that the Evo MR guys were significantly faster than me, running 53s. Granted most of the drivers have spent more time at these types of events, but I would still say the Evo is questionably a better car for tight courses. [/QUOTE]
don't discount the STI that quickly.. yes evo's are quick but i'm a strong believer than an STI can be just as fast. especially when it comes to putting down the power out of corners. look at AS results when they come up.. chris c. hauls ass in his sti. plus there are some fast suby dudes that replied to your post!
[QUOTE=Timber wolf]Brakes did not have enough bite for this application. I expect way more from Brembos.[/QUOTE]
we're super fortunate to have daddio run with us at our events.. mark runs stock pads in his ~350whp evo.. he said he prefers 'em b/c they're less abrubt. the alien always has good advice! and don't be afraid to ask mark or any of the other super quick guys we have around to hop in the car.. salerno, perry aidlebaum, gj dixon, etc.. you'll be surprised how many national champs we have access to, and they're all real friendly.
keep at it and see you out there next year!
-dan
i was at this event also (one of the two AS white STI's). were you in the crystal grey 06? orchard beach is an amazing lot that we sadly lose for good it seems. however, wscc puts on a great event and hopefully monticello works out for next year.
[QUOTE=Timber wolf]I can say that the Evo MR guys were significantly faster than me, running 53s. Granted most of the drivers have spent more time at these types of events, but I would still say the Evo is questionably a better car for tight courses. [/QUOTE]
don't discount the STI that quickly.. yes evo's are quick but i'm a strong believer than an STI can be just as fast. especially when it comes to putting down the power out of corners. look at AS results when they come up.. chris c. hauls ass in his sti. plus there are some fast suby dudes that replied to your post!
[QUOTE=Timber wolf]Brakes did not have enough bite for this application. I expect way more from Brembos.[/QUOTE]
we're super fortunate to have daddio run with us at our events.. mark runs stock pads in his ~350whp evo.. he said he prefers 'em b/c they're less abrubt. the alien always has good advice! and don't be afraid to ask mark or any of the other super quick guys we have around to hop in the car.. salerno, perry aidlebaum, gj dixon, etc.. you'll be surprised how many national champs we have access to, and they're all real friendly.
keep at it and see you out there next year!
-dan
| trhoppe | 11-14-2005 11:20 PM |
Wow, a n00b that says "I'm out" and doesn't come back. Amazing. :lol:
-Tom
-Tom
| gc822 | 11-14-2005 11:24 PM |
[QUOTE=Timber wolf]OK this has gotten out of hand. I'm out..[/QUOTE]
:lol:
wow..... I really don't even know what to say to that one....
I guess the guy will just take longer to achieve a higher level of skill b/c he's too bull headed to want to listen to anyone
[JOKE] hi, my name is timberwolf, and I bought a car biased towards the younger demographic to test the bling factor and to make me feel young again. Can I drive? Of course I can stupid! I've had 11tybillion+ track days with my M3! What you can't afford an M3?? Well I guess you're a ****ty driver then........ stupid!! [/JOKE]
:lol:
wow..... I really don't even know what to say to that one....
I guess the guy will just take longer to achieve a higher level of skill b/c he's too bull headed to want to listen to anyone
[JOKE] hi, my name is timberwolf, and I bought a car biased towards the younger demographic to test the bling factor and to make me feel young again. Can I drive? Of course I can stupid! I've had 11tybillion+ track days with my M3! What you can't afford an M3?? Well I guess you're a ****ty driver then........ stupid!! [/JOKE]
| WRXedUSA | 11-14-2005 11:49 PM |
Wow guys! We had a softy!
tom, KC <highfive>
I was going to reply, but you covered it all!
tom, KC <highfive>
I was going to reply, but you covered it all!
| KC | 11-15-2005 07:39 AM |
[QUOTE=ghostshadow]we're super fortunate to have daddio run with us at our events.. mark runs stock pads in his ~350whp evo.. he said he prefers 'em b/c they're less abrubt. the alien always has good advice! and don't be afraid to ask mark or any of the other super quick guys we have around to hop in the car.. salerno, perry aidlebaum, gj dixon, etc.. you'll be surprised how many national champs we have access to, and they're all real friendly.
keep at it and see you out there next year!
-dan[/QUOTE]There was an orchard beach event last weekend? Damn... I should have gone... just didn't know about it. *sigh* (Yes, I would have made the trek from MA for one last auto-x of the season.) :)
Don't let us discourage you. If you shut yourself off from not only the help that's available in person at the site, but between the events on the forums, you're most likely not going to last long with auto-x and you'll find it more frustrating than ever.
I apologize for the 'prodding fun' at you. Shouldn't have done it, I know better, but I've been here for over 6 years and I've seen your type come and go... people of all ages thinking they know better than the next.
--kC
keep at it and see you out there next year!
-dan[/QUOTE]There was an orchard beach event last weekend? Damn... I should have gone... just didn't know about it. *sigh* (Yes, I would have made the trek from MA for one last auto-x of the season.) :)
Don't let us discourage you. If you shut yourself off from not only the help that's available in person at the site, but between the events on the forums, you're most likely not going to last long with auto-x and you'll find it more frustrating than ever.
I apologize for the 'prodding fun' at you. Shouldn't have done it, I know better, but I've been here for over 6 years and I've seen your type come and go... people of all ages thinking they know better than the next.
--kC
| ghostshadow | 11-15-2005 09:45 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]There was an orchard beach event last weekend? Damn... I should have gone... just didn't know about it. *sigh* (Yes, I would have made the trek from MA for one last auto-x of the season.) :)
[/QUOTE]
hey kc, met you at the com nhis event- i'm ryanc's buddy even though he's a ***.
yeah not many people knew about orchard- they kept it low key because orchard wasn't a secured site yet.. and it looks like they didn't get approval to keep running there. you guys are lucky to have devens!
-dan
[/QUOTE]
hey kc, met you at the com nhis event- i'm ryanc's buddy even though he's a ***.
yeah not many people knew about orchard- they kept it low key because orchard wasn't a secured site yet.. and it looks like they didn't get approval to keep running there. you guys are lucky to have devens!
-dan
| Rally_wgn | 11-15-2005 10:19 AM |
Must be some serious gladhanders on the BMW, Vette forums :shrug: As I intend to compete in both auto-x and rally-x next season I certainly appreciate the depth of knowledge here and the lack of subtlety (it confuses me).
| Timber wolf | 11-15-2005 10:24 AM |
[QUOTE=gc822]:lol:
wow..... I really don't even know what to say to that one....
I guess the guy will just take longer to achieve a higher level of skill b/c he's too bull headed to want to listen to anyone
[JOKE] hi, my name is timberwolf, and I bought a car biased towards the younger demographic to test the bling factor and to make me feel young again. Can I drive? Of course I can stupid! I've had 11tybillion+ track days with my M3! What you can't afford an M3?? Well I guess you're a ****ty driver then........ stupid!! [/JOKE][/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol: Yeahhh... Bling it is... Chrome rims on the way. Mid life crisis at 31... :rolleyes:
Meanwhile I'm just a guy who dabbles in track stuff and autocrosses, who came here to share my thoughts from a "street driver's" perspective for those who are curious about the 06 cars and who don't have time to be at EVERY autocross and gathering.
What I get in return is the "know it all" guys had to chime in to show their expertise and mock my comments. It's like a bunch of "track vultures" who wait for someone who's not a SOLO2 pro to chime in so that they can assault them with wisdom and years of pro racing.
I've read as much as I could source regarding autocrossing, and try to hitch a ride with the better drivers at least once per autocross. I respect the heck out of good drivers, and consider myself a perpetual student, and listen more than I speak at these events. I understand and know that seat time is the key but don't have the luxury of being able to attend these events religiously. As many others don't.
But what I don't need is some guy to say.. "yeah.. that's what I thought... You have no skills, you are not a ranked pro so your input is garbage. It's not all about Horse Power bla bla bla...."
I've been on forums for years and have never had issues with people before. You guys must drink alot of Red Bull or something... :alien:
wow..... I really don't even know what to say to that one....
I guess the guy will just take longer to achieve a higher level of skill b/c he's too bull headed to want to listen to anyone
[JOKE] hi, my name is timberwolf, and I bought a car biased towards the younger demographic to test the bling factor and to make me feel young again. Can I drive? Of course I can stupid! I've had 11tybillion+ track days with my M3! What you can't afford an M3?? Well I guess you're a ****ty driver then........ stupid!! [/JOKE][/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol: Yeahhh... Bling it is... Chrome rims on the way. Mid life crisis at 31... :rolleyes:
Meanwhile I'm just a guy who dabbles in track stuff and autocrosses, who came here to share my thoughts from a "street driver's" perspective for those who are curious about the 06 cars and who don't have time to be at EVERY autocross and gathering.
What I get in return is the "know it all" guys had to chime in to show their expertise and mock my comments. It's like a bunch of "track vultures" who wait for someone who's not a SOLO2 pro to chime in so that they can assault them with wisdom and years of pro racing.
I've read as much as I could source regarding autocrossing, and try to hitch a ride with the better drivers at least once per autocross. I respect the heck out of good drivers, and consider myself a perpetual student, and listen more than I speak at these events. I understand and know that seat time is the key but don't have the luxury of being able to attend these events religiously. As many others don't.
But what I don't need is some guy to say.. "yeah.. that's what I thought... You have no skills, you are not a ranked pro so your input is garbage. It's not all about Horse Power bla bla bla...."
I've been on forums for years and have never had issues with people before. You guys must drink alot of Red Bull or something... :alien:
| KC | 11-15-2005 10:44 AM |
It's great that you do all those thing to become a better driver.
It all started when you called someone 'dad' as if you were better. We didn't know your background. No one implied anything.. just nice helpful advice.
That's how it works... you offered advice on what you through about the car. Someone else offered advice about the sport that you partook in because our results with the car actually vary quite differently from your expereinces.
I'll call one item to the front....
[QUOTE]I can say that the Evo MR guys were significantly faster than me, running 53s. Granted most of the drivers have spent more time at these types of events, but I would still say the Evo is questionably a better car for tight courses. [/QUOTE]
Only after a little more info was:
[QUOTE]we're super fortunate to have daddio run with us at our events.. mark runs stock pads in his ~350whp evo.. he said he prefers 'em b/c they're less abrubt. the alien always has good advice! and don't be afraid to ask mark or any of the other super quick guys we have around to hop in the car.. salerno, perry aidlebaum, gj dixon, etc.. you'll be surprised how many national champs we have access to, and they're all real friendly.[/QUOTE]
Was Daddio one of the Evo drivers at the Orchard beach event you refer getting beat by? Here's the real deal: Daddio will hand almost anyone their ass in a lower prepped car, never mind a better prepped one.
In other words, to say the STi sucks because not only an EVO beat you (see 1st quote above) but to find out it was DADDIO in his EVO is absurd. It's apples and oranges because.. come to find out, you don't a) the same level of prep, nor b) the same skill set.
Thanks for your input on the STi. As you have found out, there's many here that disagree with your assesment... not because of your driving skills (sorry to hurt your ego) but becuase others, that DO take auto-x seriously have experienced better results in their STis than what you describe.
When your ego got hurt (re: thanks Dad)... is when the thread wint into the toilet... not the other way around. You only have yourself to blame for that.
Remember this for future posts here: Check your ego at the door. It has no business with atuo-x.. which is supposed to be a fun sport. Those that show ego in this forum are delt with appropriately. If you can't handle that, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
--kC
(Finally someone with a bigger ego than Hoppe posts... I guess I was wrong about Hoppe afterall) :lol:
It all started when you called someone 'dad' as if you were better. We didn't know your background. No one implied anything.. just nice helpful advice.
That's how it works... you offered advice on what you through about the car. Someone else offered advice about the sport that you partook in because our results with the car actually vary quite differently from your expereinces.
I'll call one item to the front....
[QUOTE]I can say that the Evo MR guys were significantly faster than me, running 53s. Granted most of the drivers have spent more time at these types of events, but I would still say the Evo is questionably a better car for tight courses. [/QUOTE]
Only after a little more info was:
[QUOTE]we're super fortunate to have daddio run with us at our events.. mark runs stock pads in his ~350whp evo.. he said he prefers 'em b/c they're less abrubt. the alien always has good advice! and don't be afraid to ask mark or any of the other super quick guys we have around to hop in the car.. salerno, perry aidlebaum, gj dixon, etc.. you'll be surprised how many national champs we have access to, and they're all real friendly.[/QUOTE]
Was Daddio one of the Evo drivers at the Orchard beach event you refer getting beat by? Here's the real deal: Daddio will hand almost anyone their ass in a lower prepped car, never mind a better prepped one.
In other words, to say the STi sucks because not only an EVO beat you (see 1st quote above) but to find out it was DADDIO in his EVO is absurd. It's apples and oranges because.. come to find out, you don't a) the same level of prep, nor b) the same skill set.
Thanks for your input on the STi. As you have found out, there's many here that disagree with your assesment... not because of your driving skills (sorry to hurt your ego) but becuase others, that DO take auto-x seriously have experienced better results in their STis than what you describe.
When your ego got hurt (re: thanks Dad)... is when the thread wint into the toilet... not the other way around. You only have yourself to blame for that.
Remember this for future posts here: Check your ego at the door. It has no business with atuo-x.. which is supposed to be a fun sport. Those that show ego in this forum are delt with appropriately. If you can't handle that, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
--kC
(Finally someone with a bigger ego than Hoppe posts... I guess I was wrong about Hoppe afterall) :lol:
| Rally_wgn | 11-15-2005 10:44 AM |
timberwolf, I think you have this all wrong. You started the snide remarks with your "thanks dad" jab at what was fairly constructive advice based on what little background you gave the forum. Then to go on and, to use your words, belittle those trying to help by putting us down with your (using my snooty country club impression) porsche, bwm and vette forums comment hasnt helped.
Frankly we should be upset with you not the other way around. But were not, go figure.
Frankly we should be upset with you not the other way around. But were not, go figure.
| Rally_wgn | 11-15-2005 10:46 AM |
ahh.. got to love the simultaneous posting. Hope i didnt step on your toes Kc. :lol:
| KC | 11-15-2005 10:50 AM |
[QUOTE=Rally_wgn]ahh.. got to love the simultaneous posting. Hope i didnt step on your toes Kc. :lol:[/QUOTE]
Nope. No issue there. Hoppe has two left feet when we dance. :lol:
Nope. No issue there. Hoppe has two left feet when we dance. :lol:
| Rally_wgn | 11-15-2005 10:52 AM |
On a more constructive note. I have noticed in reading other threads here that driving a AWD car is significantly different than a RWD car, especially in the cornering dimension. Is this true or are they basically the same?
Specifically, threads regarding the new diff/ power distribution changes on the '06 many have pointed out that applying more throttle in the turns has produced better times in auto-x events then the traditional brake - apex- throttle sequence.
Now Im a noob when it comes to auto-x and dont have an Sti but I figured this does have some bearing on Tmberwolf's experience as he is used to the BMW in performance driving situations.
Specifically, threads regarding the new diff/ power distribution changes on the '06 many have pointed out that applying more throttle in the turns has produced better times in auto-x events then the traditional brake - apex- throttle sequence.
Now Im a noob when it comes to auto-x and dont have an Sti but I figured this does have some bearing on Tmberwolf's experience as he is used to the BMW in performance driving situations.
| WRXedUSA | 11-15-2005 11:12 AM |
Timberwolf,
Before [B]you [/B] start getting upset that [B]your[/B] new car isnt the autoX king that you thought it was at your first event, use this quick quide to level [B]your [/B] expectations and goals:
1. How familiar are [b]you [/b] with Solo2? Do [B]you[/B] know the tricks, the good drivers, keys to course desgin, etc?
2. Build your car to a class [B]you[/B] feel competitive in, and that [B]you[/B] will have fun in. I am staying AS myself, knowing I will get toasted by S2K's and C5's.
3. Tires. Do [B]you[/B] know that race tires chunk off 4 secs on a good open course? Again, adjust the expecations
4. Talk to [B]your [/B] friends, the locals at the track, people that have been around, Pick up on the tricks to tire pressure, run order, keeping tires/engine cool and saving weight.
5. Have fun. Solo2 is meant to be fun.
Before [B]you [/B] start getting upset that [B]your[/B] new car isnt the autoX king that you thought it was at your first event, use this quick quide to level [B]your [/B] expectations and goals:
1. How familiar are [b]you [/b] with Solo2? Do [B]you[/B] know the tricks, the good drivers, keys to course desgin, etc?
2. Build your car to a class [B]you[/B] feel competitive in, and that [B]you[/B] will have fun in. I am staying AS myself, knowing I will get toasted by S2K's and C5's.
3. Tires. Do [B]you[/B] know that race tires chunk off 4 secs on a good open course? Again, adjust the expecations
4. Talk to [B]your [/B] friends, the locals at the track, people that have been around, Pick up on the tricks to tire pressure, run order, keeping tires/engine cool and saving weight.
5. Have fun. Solo2 is meant to be fun.
| KC | 11-15-2005 11:13 AM |
Yes, it's true. AWD definitley requires a different driving style, and you can actually get away with a few things (pitching sideways before a turn to scrub speed, or making up for entering too hot) with a greater amt of predictability/repeatability compared to a RWD car. The RWD car will just come around if you lift/turn in after a fast straight where the AWD you can pretty much just power out of it.
RWD allows you to power out better than an AWD WRX where the front wheels want to 'pull' you straight while the rears push the car. Like my 8 for example... the front tries are just used for pointing.. the rears for 'steering'. ;)
The new 06 is a different animal compared to 04/05 from what I hear also. I have yet to drive one, but the reports have been very favorable to powering out of corners a but more with less understeer that was seen in the 04/05s.
--kC
RWD allows you to power out better than an AWD WRX where the front wheels want to 'pull' you straight while the rears push the car. Like my 8 for example... the front tries are just used for pointing.. the rears for 'steering'. ;)
The new 06 is a different animal compared to 04/05 from what I hear also. I have yet to drive one, but the reports have been very favorable to powering out of corners a but more with less understeer that was seen in the 04/05s.
--kC
| gc822 | 11-15-2005 11:26 AM |
[QUOTE=Rally_wgn]On a more constructive note. I have noticed in reading other threads here that driving a AWD car is significantly different than a RWD car, especially in the cornering dimension. Is this true or are they basically the same?
Specifically, threads regarding the new diff/ power distribution changes on the '06 many have pointed out that applying more throttle in the turns has produced better times in auto-x events then the traditional brake - apex- throttle sequence.
[/QUOTE]
As far as the 06 STI's changes applied to throttle control in corners I haven't heard much yet....
In my driving experience, I noticed that if I were to apply the same amount of throttle in the corners to say, for instance my friend's 240sx(RWD) as I do to my Impreza- I would spin out every time. My Impreza hooks up in the corners and pulls through them, whereas driving a RWD car I would use much less throttle due to less grip.
Almost the same goes for my Prelude. If I were to apply the same amount of throttle in this case, I would end up going of the track in a fit of understeering hell. Again one of the contributing factors being less grip.
Transitioning from driving a FWD to AWD car took a long time for me to get used to. I am still learning new stuff every day.
just my .02
Specifically, threads regarding the new diff/ power distribution changes on the '06 many have pointed out that applying more throttle in the turns has produced better times in auto-x events then the traditional brake - apex- throttle sequence.
[/QUOTE]
As far as the 06 STI's changes applied to throttle control in corners I haven't heard much yet....
In my driving experience, I noticed that if I were to apply the same amount of throttle in the corners to say, for instance my friend's 240sx(RWD) as I do to my Impreza- I would spin out every time. My Impreza hooks up in the corners and pulls through them, whereas driving a RWD car I would use much less throttle due to less grip.
Almost the same goes for my Prelude. If I were to apply the same amount of throttle in this case, I would end up going of the track in a fit of understeering hell. Again one of the contributing factors being less grip.
Transitioning from driving a FWD to AWD car took a long time for me to get used to. I am still learning new stuff every day.
just my .02
| Timber wolf | 11-15-2005 11:39 AM |
Well if you guys feel that I threw this post in the toilet by calling him "dad" then my apologies to all.
I just wanted to post my thoughts and comments in comparison to other cars I have owned and driven in autocrosses. I love cars and big power, but ended up doing best in AutoXing with my least powered car. (325is and Mcoupe)
92 325IS
95 M3
99 Mcoupe
00 Mroadster
90 Porsche Turbo (aftermarket kit)
01 Z06
06 STI
I am not posting to brag, cause none of the cars were much more $ than a new STi. Just all different at getting the job done. I love cars, and meeting new enthusiasts to discuss anything from HP to handling, to quarter mile etc...
I came here to share my experience campared to others stuff I've driven, not to insult the STI.
Just for the record. I think this is by far one of the finest cars I've owned, and does pretty much everything perfectly. My average times were mostly due to lack of seat time in the STI and course familiarity. I got all pumped in time for the season to be over... :(
Next year...
I just wanted to post my thoughts and comments in comparison to other cars I have owned and driven in autocrosses. I love cars and big power, but ended up doing best in AutoXing with my least powered car. (325is and Mcoupe)
92 325IS
95 M3
99 Mcoupe
00 Mroadster
90 Porsche Turbo (aftermarket kit)
01 Z06
06 STI
I am not posting to brag, cause none of the cars were much more $ than a new STi. Just all different at getting the job done. I love cars, and meeting new enthusiasts to discuss anything from HP to handling, to quarter mile etc...
I came here to share my experience campared to others stuff I've driven, not to insult the STI.
Just for the record. I think this is by far one of the finest cars I've owned, and does pretty much everything perfectly. My average times were mostly due to lack of seat time in the STI and course familiarity. I got all pumped in time for the season to be over... :(
Next year...
| Scoobie Doogie | 11-15-2005 12:02 PM |
Glad to have you back Timber wolf. I am sure you will find this motorsports forum a great place to learn and contribute.
Dave
Dave
| Rally_wgn | 11-15-2005 12:04 PM |
MMM... M Roadster! I sold three of these during my stint a CarMax and loved everyone of them. The exhaust sound on the M with the top down is absolutely intoxicating.
I cant wait to run my old girl on the Auto-x course. I attend my first Rally-x as a driver December 11 at Oakland Acres.
Timberwolf welcome to the Nabisco and good luck with the STi next season.
I cant wait to run my old girl on the Auto-x course. I attend my first Rally-x as a driver December 11 at Oakland Acres.
Timberwolf welcome to the Nabisco and good luck with the STi next season.
| Timber wolf | 11-15-2005 12:20 PM |
Thanks guys. I look forward to more chats.
Cheers,
Greg
Cheers,
Greg
| trhoppe | 11-15-2005 01:11 PM |
Chalk up another "I hate you guys I'm out" that comes back :lol: :lol:
| Draken | 11-15-2005 01:17 PM |
hoppe: you suck, and i'm never talking to you again.
chris h.
ps: pizza and beer tonight?
chris h.
ps: pizza and beer tonight?
| adhowe70 | 11-15-2005 07:46 PM |
[QUOTE=WRXedUSA]
2. Build your car to a class [B]you[/B] feel competitive in, and that [B]you[/B] will have fun in. I am staying AS myself, knowing I will get toasted by S2K's and C5's. [/QUOTE]
When did the non-Z06 C5 Vette's get moved into A Stock? The C4's live there, but I must have missed something if the C5's are there for '06.
2. Build your car to a class [B]you[/B] feel competitive in, and that [B]you[/B] will have fun in. I am staying AS myself, knowing I will get toasted by S2K's and C5's. [/QUOTE]
When did the non-Z06 C5 Vette's get moved into A Stock? The C4's live there, but I must have missed something if the C5's are there for '06.
| Timber wolf | 11-15-2005 07:57 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Chalk up another "I hate you guys I'm out" that comes back :lol: :lol:[/QUOTE]
An ex girlfriend showed me that trick... :D
An ex girlfriend showed me that trick... :D
| trhoppe | 11-15-2005 08:00 PM |
:lol: ok fine, you're welcome back with that comment
-Tom
-Tom
| KC | 11-15-2005 08:13 PM |
[QUOTE=Timber wolf]An ex girlfriend showed me that trick... :D[/QUOTE]
:lol:
:lol:
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