| Scoobie Doogie | 12-17-2001 12:06 PM |
New Auto-X class, STX
Did any of you hear about the new Auto-X class that the SCCA is establishing? All rules are like STS only they allow up to a 2.0l turbo engine and AWD. NA is allowable up to 5.1l. Stock sized brakes but you can do just about anything with the suspension. Exhausts are allowed as long as they are street legal ( cats on ). Headers, intakes, ......
Sounds like a WRX class to me. I personally believe that the SCCA is creating this class for the EVO VII and the STi. Had to allow large displacement NA to help diversify the class and have some American cars too.
Dave
Sounds like a WRX class to me. I personally believe that the SCCA is creating this class for the EVO VII and the STi. Had to allow large displacement NA to help diversify the class and have some American cars too.
Dave
| Strepto | 12-17-2001 12:17 PM |
official realeas [url]http://www.scca.org/news/fastrack/02-02.pdf[/url] (pg 13 of 24)
actually, brakes are unrestricted. They just have to use the factory mounting points :)
actually, brakes are unrestricted. They just have to use the factory mounting points :)
| Jeff 2.5RS | 12-17-2001 01:23 PM |
But boost mods are illegal so you would have to keep the factory boost controller on, but overall it does look like a good class for the wrx.
| 10th Warrior | 12-17-2001 01:32 PM |
are you sure that this isn't just SM2?
| dwx | 12-17-2001 02:32 PM |
If you read the PDF it specifically says that it uses the same rules as STS only allows up to 2.0L turbo or 5.1lL NA engines. Isn't this basically just SP class or am I missing something? I guess SP might allow for more room for non bolt-on mods but I figure the classes will be very similar... And yes it does sound like a class invented for the WRX/STi/EVO.
Phil
Phil
| Strepto | 12-17-2001 02:55 PM |
SP goes much further than this class. In SP you don't have to have cats; full stand alone engine management is allowed; intakes are less restricted; you're allowed to run r-compound tires; along with a bunch of other things.
This class is just like ST originally was. It's for the average enthusiast that wants more performance out of their vehicle but doesn't have the money to be extremely competetive in their given SP class or in SM. Now they're openning up the turbo allowances, but I'm sure they'll keep their exclusion list of DSMs, Audi Quattros and similar forced induction vehicles.
This class is just like ST originally was. It's for the average enthusiast that wants more performance out of their vehicle but doesn't have the money to be extremely competetive in their given SP class or in SM. Now they're openning up the turbo allowances, but I'm sure they'll keep their exclusion list of DSMs, Audi Quattros and similar forced induction vehicles.
| zzyzx | 12-17-2001 03:11 PM |
Rules
The rules, as outlined for the new SCCA Solo2 STX class:
1. All allowances in STS would carry over, including street tires, rim restrictions, etc.
2. All restrictions regarding body type carry over.
3. Engine size allowance: up to 5.1, normally aspirated and 2.0, forced induction (single turbo or supercharger).
4. Only factory limited slip differentials (LSD) are allowed on AWD vehicles, as defined in Section 12.4. For 2WD vehicles and AWD vehicles that did not come with any type of limited slip differential (including center differential or transfer case) a single aftermarket LSD may be added.
5. High flow catalytic convertors are allowed but must attach within six inches of the original unit.
6. Alternate motor mounts and/or engine locators (bobble struts) sold by the vehicle's manufacturer or their Motorsports subsidiary or their affiliate (Chrylser/Mopa, Toyots/TRD, Honda/Mugen, etc.) are allowed.
7. Alternate driver and front passenger seats are allowed, but they cannot be constructed of a solid outer shell and must have a suspended bottom cushion and be fully upholstered.
8. Brake rotors and calipers are unrestricted, but must attach to the original attachment points.
9. Additionally excluded cars: BMW M3 (E36 and E46), BMW M5 (all).
- Steve
1. All allowances in STS would carry over, including street tires, rim restrictions, etc.
2. All restrictions regarding body type carry over.
3. Engine size allowance: up to 5.1, normally aspirated and 2.0, forced induction (single turbo or supercharger).
4. Only factory limited slip differentials (LSD) are allowed on AWD vehicles, as defined in Section 12.4. For 2WD vehicles and AWD vehicles that did not come with any type of limited slip differential (including center differential or transfer case) a single aftermarket LSD may be added.
5. High flow catalytic convertors are allowed but must attach within six inches of the original unit.
6. Alternate motor mounts and/or engine locators (bobble struts) sold by the vehicle's manufacturer or their Motorsports subsidiary or their affiliate (Chrylser/Mopa, Toyots/TRD, Honda/Mugen, etc.) are allowed.
7. Alternate driver and front passenger seats are allowed, but they cannot be constructed of a solid outer shell and must have a suspended bottom cushion and be fully upholstered.
8. Brake rotors and calipers are unrestricted, but must attach to the original attachment points.
9. Additionally excluded cars: BMW M3 (E36 and E46), BMW M5 (all).
- Steve
| TimStevens | 12-17-2001 03:40 PM |
Oooh... now the dillemma... stay in G-stock and lose to the guys with slicks, or move to STX and lose to the guys with engine mods :)
-tim
-tim
| OldManWRX | 12-17-2001 03:48 PM |
Actually, the WRX is moving to DS for 2002, so we'll be competing (?) with RSX's...
| TimStevens | 12-17-2001 03:52 PM |
Oops... that's what I meant to say. I'll get used to saying D instead of G eventually...
-tim
-tim
| kgb | 12-17-2001 04:22 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TimStevens [/i]
[B]Oooh... now the dillemma... stay in G-stock and lose to the guys with slicks, or move to STX and lose to the guys with engine mods :)
-tim [/B][/QUOTE]
Up north here, we have less classes, and with my RS, I have the same dilema about moding. You either stay stock with good tires, or you have to go all out on moding to beat out the lighter cars in DSS/DSP.
[B]Oooh... now the dillemma... stay in G-stock and lose to the guys with slicks, or move to STX and lose to the guys with engine mods :)
-tim [/B][/QUOTE]
Up north here, we have less classes, and with my RS, I have the same dilema about moding. You either stay stock with good tires, or you have to go all out on moding to beat out the lighter cars in DSS/DSP.
| Orion | 12-17-2001 05:04 PM |
ok, explain this boost issue again??? i'm a bit confused. if a piggyback ECU is allowed then boost can obviously be altered, can't it?
| 10th Warrior | 12-17-2001 05:09 PM |
i have a Q about the diffs (PDF and POS modem are not a good combo). are they limited to viscous types, or are they unlimited, so mechanical/electrical ones are allowed (i.e. EVO/STi drivetrains)
| jmott | 12-17-2001 06:22 PM |
let the M3 in.
I am not afraid!
I am not afraid!
| dwx | 12-17-2001 07:32 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 10th Warrior [/i]
[B]i have a Q about the diffs (PDF and POS modem are not a good combo). are they limited to viscous types, or are they unlimited, so mechanical/electrical ones are allowed (i.e. EVO/STi drivetrains) [/B][/QUOTE]
zyzzx pasted pretty much everything from that section and that was all they said about the diffs. I believe section 12.4 has to do with the definition of factory parts, so if it came on the car then it's legal. If you have an EVO that came with an electronic diff then I guess that's fine.
[B]i have a Q about the diffs (PDF and POS modem are not a good combo). are they limited to viscous types, or are they unlimited, so mechanical/electrical ones are allowed (i.e. EVO/STi drivetrains) [/B][/QUOTE]
zyzzx pasted pretty much everything from that section and that was all they said about the diffs. I believe section 12.4 has to do with the definition of factory parts, so if it came on the car then it's legal. If you have an EVO that came with an electronic diff then I guess that's fine.
| Orion | 12-18-2001 07:38 AM |
When will the 2002 rule books be avaialable and does anyone think they'll have this class' rules ready in time for the publication of it?
| McGuyver | 12-18-2001 08:10 AM |
2002 SCCA Solo 2 Rule Book Availability
At the CENDIV Roundtable last month, Howard Duncan said that they were trying to make the rule books for next year available by Christmas. With all the other stuff going on at the National HQ that was probably an aggressive goal but I bet they'll be ready by at least the first of the year. Given the fact that the STX class was just approved I'm not sure if the class rules will be in the book but they will be available either in Fastrack next month or on the SCCA website.
Chris
Indy Region Solo Chairman
Soon to be Subaru driver - just can't decide between the RS and the WRX
Chris
Indy Region Solo Chairman
Soon to be Subaru driver - just can't decide between the RS and the WRX
| Strepto | 12-18-2001 10:36 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MikeWRX [/i]
[B]This sounds like a great class. The only thing I would like more info on is the boost controller/Chip issue.[/b][/quote]
I'm not snipping directly from the rules, but because ST is based on SP and beyond controll beyond stock controll systems is right out. In the Fast Track I linked to above there's a nice reminder under SP that boost controll must stay stock in SP.
[quote][b]My 2000 rule book still states only NA cars for STS and I don't know which issue they had the change for the VW/Audi turbo cars being allowed in STS. Any help?? [/B][/QUOTE]
The small displacement forced induction cars were added in the 2001 rule book. Issues of Fast Track continued to add or exclude cars there after.
[B]This sounds like a great class. The only thing I would like more info on is the boost controller/Chip issue.[/b][/quote]
I'm not snipping directly from the rules, but because ST is based on SP and beyond controll beyond stock controll systems is right out. In the Fast Track I linked to above there's a nice reminder under SP that boost controll must stay stock in SP.
[quote][b]My 2000 rule book still states only NA cars for STS and I don't know which issue they had the change for the VW/Audi turbo cars being allowed in STS. Any help?? [/B][/QUOTE]
The small displacement forced induction cars were added in the 2001 rule book. Issues of Fast Track continued to add or exclude cars there after.
| CivicSiRacer | 12-18-2001 12:05 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by OldManWRX [/i]
[B]Actually, the WRX is moving to DS for 2002, so we'll be competing (?) with RSX's... [/B][/QUOTE]
RSX Type S and the Integra Type R. The base model RSX is going to G stock along with the 99-00 Civic Si.
[B]Actually, the WRX is moving to DS for 2002, so we'll be competing (?) with RSX's... [/B][/QUOTE]
RSX Type S and the Integra Type R. The base model RSX is going to G stock along with the 99-00 Civic Si.
| CivicSiRacer | 12-18-2001 12:07 PM |
I don't know how you guys are interpreting the rules, but on other boards some people say you are allowed to add a turbo or supercharger to a car that didn't come with it from factory while others say you can't.
With the way import people like myself - turbos are always next on the list of mods to our cars. And since STS was created for the import people in mind I would think STX would be the same. Since the rules allow a car without LSD to add I would think the same lines would go for turbos and Superchargers.
With the way import people like myself - turbos are always next on the list of mods to our cars. And since STS was created for the import people in mind I would think STX would be the same. Since the rules allow a car without LSD to add I would think the same lines would go for turbos and Superchargers.
| Strepto | 12-18-2001 12:27 PM |
a good way of interpreting rules to be safe is that if it doesn't explicetly say you can do something you can't. No where in the preliminary rulse does it say you can add forced induction to normaly asspirated vehicles. It list engine allowances just like the original ST rules did. Even SM has engine allowances, but there the rules to say you can change the induction of the motor.
| WRXhauls | 12-18-2001 05:44 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TimStevens [/i]
[B]Oooh... now the dillemma... stay in G-stock and lose to the guys with slicks, or move to STX and lose to the guys with engine mods :)
-tim [/B][/QUOTE]
Or in FLR...
Stay in DS and lose to slicks,
or move to STX and lose to upgraded suspensions,
or move to road tire and have a chance but no respect.
I was thinking about upgrading the rear bar on my wagon, maybe STX will be the way to go...
[B]Oooh... now the dillemma... stay in G-stock and lose to the guys with slicks, or move to STX and lose to the guys with engine mods :)
-tim [/B][/QUOTE]
Or in FLR...
Stay in DS and lose to slicks,
or move to STX and lose to upgraded suspensions,
or move to road tire and have a chance but no respect.
I was thinking about upgrading the rear bar on my wagon, maybe STX will be the way to go...
| Nutter | 12-18-2001 06:00 PM |
So if I stay completely stock (take off my mbc), I would end up in ST(DS) ? where as last year I was in ST(GS) correct ?
| zzyzx | 12-18-2001 06:10 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by CivicSiRacer [/i]
[B]I don't know how you guys are interpreting the rules, but on other boards some people say you are allowed to add a turbo or supercharger to a car that didn't come with it from factory while others say you can't.
[/b][/quote]
Incorrect. The rule is only stated because STS did not allow turbo charged cars. The exceptions, noted later, are the 1.8T Audi based low-pressure OEM models.
Aftermarket turbos are still the domain of S-Mod - where this belongs IMO.
Same goes with LSDs. OEM LSD type is unrestricted in STX, as opposed to STS which limited is to 'viscous-type' only. Hence, the Type R LSD, Honda ATTS, or Audi Quattro are allowed.
Aftermarket LSDs are not allowed on AWD vehicles, but any type of LSD can be added to a 2WD vehicle.
STX is essentially a step for an STS car to take towards a Street Prepared car. If you are pondering a mod not allowed in SP then it's not allowed in STX unless explicitly stated otherwise.
If you find youself using quite a bit of poetic license in interpreting the rules noted above in my other post, then chances are what you're pondering is not allowed under the rules. ;)
- Steve
[B]I don't know how you guys are interpreting the rules, but on other boards some people say you are allowed to add a turbo or supercharger to a car that didn't come with it from factory while others say you can't.
[/b][/quote]
Incorrect. The rule is only stated because STS did not allow turbo charged cars. The exceptions, noted later, are the 1.8T Audi based low-pressure OEM models.
Aftermarket turbos are still the domain of S-Mod - where this belongs IMO.
Same goes with LSDs. OEM LSD type is unrestricted in STX, as opposed to STS which limited is to 'viscous-type' only. Hence, the Type R LSD, Honda ATTS, or Audi Quattro are allowed.
Aftermarket LSDs are not allowed on AWD vehicles, but any type of LSD can be added to a 2WD vehicle.
STX is essentially a step for an STS car to take towards a Street Prepared car. If you are pondering a mod not allowed in SP then it's not allowed in STX unless explicitly stated otherwise.
If you find youself using quite a bit of poetic license in interpreting the rules noted above in my other post, then chances are what you're pondering is not allowed under the rules. ;)
- Steve
| dwx | 12-18-2001 06:14 PM |
Nutter, yeah that's correct. I actually have some stock-class adj struts coming in and was going to stay in stock, but I couldn't help myself. So the STX class is perfect for me since I'll have upgraded intake/exhaust/suspension/7" wheels... Around here the WRX ran last year in FWD Street Tire, this year I would have had a SP index or if I was running in other events just run in the correct SP class. I don't think we'll have enough people around here to make STX a worthwhile class, so I'll probably stick in the street tire class. I wonder how the indexes for an STX car would differ from SP...
Phil
Phil
| KC | 12-18-2001 10:17 PM |
[QUOTE]So the STX class is perfect for me since I'll have upgraded intake/exhaust/suspension/7" wheels... [/QUOTE]
WRX has 6.5" wheels standard. Can't change them in STX.
WRX has 6.5" wheels standard. Can't change them in STX.
| CivicSiRacer | 12-18-2001 10:26 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]
WRX has 6.5" wheels standard. Can't change them in STX. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes you can the STS rule of: up to 7.5" wide wheels and 225 wide tires applies.
[B]
WRX has 6.5" wheels standard. Can't change them in STX. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes you can the STS rule of: up to 7.5" wide wheels and 225 wide tires applies.
| KC | 12-18-2001 10:36 PM |
I'm just saying everything wrong here tonihgt, and everywhere.
Maybe I should think before I post? Sheesh.
Why was I thinking of STOCK RULES when I posted that.
I'm a dork.
--kC
Maybe I should think before I post? Sheesh.
Why was I thinking of STOCK RULES when I posted that.
I'm a dork.
--kC
| CivicSiRacer | 12-19-2001 07:26 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]I'm just saying everything wrong here tonihgt, and everywhere.
Maybe I should think before I post? Sheesh.
Why was I thinking of STOCK RULES when I posted that.
I'm a dork.
--kC [/B][/QUOTE]
Nah don't worry about it. That's why all of us are here to help one another. I know I have posted some blurbs here and there :)
[B]I'm just saying everything wrong here tonihgt, and everywhere.
Maybe I should think before I post? Sheesh.
Why was I thinking of STOCK RULES when I posted that.
I'm a dork.
--kC [/B][/QUOTE]
Nah don't worry about it. That's why all of us are here to help one another. I know I have posted some blurbs here and there :)
| AWMIII | 12-19-2001 09:20 AM |
The fine print on boost is important. A unichip uses the factory boost controller, but runs a higher boost level. right?
How about the cat rules. Do we need to maintain all 3 cats or can we go to one high flow cat located within 6 inches of the last cat? I am going to stx if it looks like it will gain support (which it does). I am looking forward to not changing tires twice every Sunday. My wife is not looking forward to all the money I am going to spend on coil-overs, camber plates, and a new exhaust system.
How about the cat rules. Do we need to maintain all 3 cats or can we go to one high flow cat located within 6 inches of the last cat? I am going to stx if it looks like it will gain support (which it does). I am looking forward to not changing tires twice every Sunday. My wife is not looking forward to all the money I am going to spend on coil-overs, camber plates, and a new exhaust system.
| CivicSiRacer | 12-19-2001 09:57 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AWMIII [/i]
[B]The fine print on boost is important. A unichip uses the factory boost controller, but runs a higher boost level. right?
How about the cat rules. Do we need to maintain all 3 cats or can we go to one high flow cat located within 6 inches of the last cat? I am going to stx if it looks like it will gain support (which it does). I am looking forward to not changing tires twice every Sunday. My wife is not looking forward to all the money I am going to spend on coil-overs, camber plates, and a new exhaust system. [/B][/QUOTE]
That's why you let the wives spend a little money on their hobbies and usually comes out fine :) At least that's what I do :) She is allowed to buy Longerberger baskets and Pampered Chef things I can buy shocks, coilovers and wheels :)
[B]The fine print on boost is important. A unichip uses the factory boost controller, but runs a higher boost level. right?
How about the cat rules. Do we need to maintain all 3 cats or can we go to one high flow cat located within 6 inches of the last cat? I am going to stx if it looks like it will gain support (which it does). I am looking forward to not changing tires twice every Sunday. My wife is not looking forward to all the money I am going to spend on coil-overs, camber plates, and a new exhaust system. [/B][/QUOTE]
That's why you let the wives spend a little money on their hobbies and usually comes out fine :) At least that's what I do :) She is allowed to buy Longerberger baskets and Pampered Chef things I can buy shocks, coilovers and wheels :)
| Jaxx | 12-19-2001 11:20 AM |
this is very cool and all
but has any one seen the pax value for this class yet? i would really like to compair it to SM ESP and GS
but has any one seen the pax value for this class yet? i would really like to compair it to SM ESP and GS
| CivicSiRacer | 12-19-2001 11:31 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jaxx [/i]
[B]this is very cool and all
but has any one seen the pax value for this class yet? i would really like to compair it to SM ESP and GS [/B][/QUOTE]
I haven't yet but you can go to [url]http://www.egroups.com/streetoruing[/url]
Some people are guessing that it will be (of course) faster than STS but slower than SM (of course). They figured it to be around .801
[B]this is very cool and all
but has any one seen the pax value for this class yet? i would really like to compair it to SM ESP and GS [/B][/QUOTE]
I haven't yet but you can go to [url]http://www.egroups.com/streetoruing[/url]
Some people are guessing that it will be (of course) faster than STS but slower than SM (of course). They figured it to be around .801
| 10th Warrior | 12-19-2001 03:10 PM |
GS has always had a really good PAX score. i suspect b/c of this, it might stay the same despite the faster cars getting the boot. but you never know. btw-GS is a faster class then STS and i suspect STX as well, though that will be tougher. you can have your $3k worth of suspension and engine mods, but its no match for $500 worth or R-compound :D
| Tony | 12-24-2001 10:00 AM |
[quote]I haven't yet but you can go to [url]http://www.egroups.com/streetoruing[/url][/quote]
Your spelling sucks ;) but if you'd had it right it just redirects you to yahoo since they bought out egroups a while back. The new addy for the Street Touring group is:
[url]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/streettouring/[/url]
Tony
Your spelling sucks ;) but if you'd had it right it just redirects you to yahoo since they bought out egroups a while back. The new addy for the Street Touring group is:
[url]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/streettouring/[/url]
Tony
| Storm | 12-24-2001 11:36 AM |
huh?
How do you figure THAT? :confused:
Sorry but that's just not possible unless you put a terribly inept driver in the car with a sorted suspension.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 10th Warrior [/i]
you can have your $3k worth of suspension and engine mods, but its no match for $500 worth or R-compound :D [/B][/QUOTE]
Sorry but that's just not possible unless you put a terribly inept driver in the car with a sorted suspension.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 10th Warrior [/i]
you can have your $3k worth of suspension and engine mods, but its no match for $500 worth or R-compound :D [/B][/QUOTE]
| BIGSKYWRX | 12-25-2001 06:54 PM |
Concerning piggyback/unichip ECU for STX, from fastrack News- Solo Events, Motion 3 STS(would apply to STX) engine magt system parameters D.
"engine mgt system parameters may be modified only via the methods listed below..... These allowances also aplly to forced induction cars EXCEPT that no changes to standard boost levels, intercoolers, or boost controls are permitted."
The standard boost level and no changes to intercooler are self explanatory, however do they mean no change to the boost controller, which still would allow ECU changes to say part throttle boost levels or absolutely no changes to boost whatsoever?
Either way I believe it would nix most piggyback systems developed at this time.
It did however say the item was returned to the SEBpending completion of the member comment process. Maybe there is hope yet.
Big Sky WRX
"engine mgt system parameters may be modified only via the methods listed below..... These allowances also aplly to forced induction cars EXCEPT that no changes to standard boost levels, intercoolers, or boost controls are permitted."
The standard boost level and no changes to intercooler are self explanatory, however do they mean no change to the boost controller, which still would allow ECU changes to say part throttle boost levels or absolutely no changes to boost whatsoever?
Either way I believe it would nix most piggyback systems developed at this time.
It did however say the item was returned to the SEBpending completion of the member comment process. Maybe there is hope yet.
Big Sky WRX
| BIGSKYWRX | 12-25-2001 07:36 PM |
Concerning piggyback/unichip ECU for STX, from fastrack News- Solo Events, Motion 3 STS(would apply to STX) engine magt system parameters D.
"engine mgt system parameters may be modified only via the methods listed below..... These allowances also aplly to forced induction cars EXCEPT that no changes to standard boost levels, intercoolers, or boost controls are permitted."
The standard boost level and no changes to intercooler are self explanatory, however do they mean no change to the boost controller, which still would allow ECU changes to say part throttle boost levels or absolutely no changes to boost whatsoever?
Either way I believe it would nix most piggyback systems developed at this time.
It did however say the item was returned to the SEBpending completion of the member comment process. Maybe there is hope yet.
Big Sky WRX
"engine mgt system parameters may be modified only via the methods listed below..... These allowances also aplly to forced induction cars EXCEPT that no changes to standard boost levels, intercoolers, or boost controls are permitted."
The standard boost level and no changes to intercooler are self explanatory, however do they mean no change to the boost controller, which still would allow ECU changes to say part throttle boost levels or absolutely no changes to boost whatsoever?
Either way I believe it would nix most piggyback systems developed at this time.
It did however say the item was returned to the SEBpending completion of the member comment process. Maybe there is hope yet.
Big Sky WRX
| z3coupe | 12-26-2001 12:41 AM |
3 questions about STX
1) would the aluminum control arms that comes with the optional STi suspension kit be allowed?
2) would a popoff valve be allowed, and what do those REALLY do other than being used as a "coolness" part for the street crowd?
3) would a pulley kit help any?
2) would a popoff valve be allowed, and what do those REALLY do other than being used as a "coolness" part for the street crowd?
3) would a pulley kit help any?
| SkToBe | 12-26-2001 01:55 AM |
I answered you on StreetTouring forum, but I am having second thoughts about the pop-off (better know as Blow-off?) valve.
1. Yes, this should be allowed as it is a Port Installed Option (pretty sure, but not positive)
2. A different blow-off [I]should[/I] be ok as it doesn't increase boost pressure, just regulates it better... (not sure on this one - going to need the help of some more experienced folk)
3. Pulley kit would have some benefit, but it must be of the same size. (Lightened, not underdrive)
=======
Start with tires. The RE-92s are crap. I think that the Falkens are the best bang for the buck.
1. Yes, this should be allowed as it is a Port Installed Option (pretty sure, but not positive)
2. A different blow-off [I]should[/I] be ok as it doesn't increase boost pressure, just regulates it better... (not sure on this one - going to need the help of some more experienced folk)
3. Pulley kit would have some benefit, but it must be of the same size. (Lightened, not underdrive)
=======
Start with tires. The RE-92s are crap. I think that the Falkens are the best bang for the buck.
| z3coupe | 12-26-2001 04:33 AM |
If I am not correct (cause the last turbo I had was an Audio A4 that really didn't have these at the time), do these sort of help keep the turbo spooled, so that it does not drop during shifts? Cause that WOULD help the WRX a lot from what I saw while doing a test drive. When going from 1st to 2nd, it drops off bad - but then I could also need to learn the car from what I have been driving :)
| ChrisW | 12-26-2001 11:57 AM |
Re: huh?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Storm [/i]
[B]How do you figure THAT? :confused:
Sorry but that's just not possible unless you put a terribly inept driver in the car with a sorted suspension.
[/B][/QUOTE][QUOTE]. you can have your $3k worth of suspension and engine mods, but its no match for $500 worth or R-compound [/QUOTE]
umm... I got 2nd place in ESP in a stock WRX on street tires!:eek:
You don't really need 3k of suspension mods to be fast in this car. It just needs minor tweaking. All those mods do is hide the capabilities of a bad driver, unless you know what your doing.
[B]How do you figure THAT? :confused:
Sorry but that's just not possible unless you put a terribly inept driver in the car with a sorted suspension.
[/B][/QUOTE][QUOTE]. you can have your $3k worth of suspension and engine mods, but its no match for $500 worth or R-compound [/QUOTE]
umm... I got 2nd place in ESP in a stock WRX on street tires!:eek:
You don't really need 3k of suspension mods to be fast in this car. It just needs minor tweaking. All those mods do is hide the capabilities of a bad driver, unless you know what your doing.
| ChrisW | 12-26-2001 12:01 PM |
Oh yeah, the only redeaming value I see for this class, it the brakes.
The limitations on the wheels, among other things does not do much for the WRX owners, your better off in ESP or SM.
SM2 was created for 2-seater cars with SM modifications that would otherwise put the 2 seater into OSP.
I see this class for those cars that have done that single mod that puts them out of SP, typically the brakes is what I see, in particular, slotted rotors, popular among R i c e r s.
The limitations on the wheels, among other things does not do much for the WRX owners, your better off in ESP or SM.
SM2 was created for 2-seater cars with SM modifications that would otherwise put the 2 seater into OSP.
I see this class for those cars that have done that single mod that puts them out of SP, typically the brakes is what I see, in particular, slotted rotors, popular among R i c e r s.
| z3coupe | 12-26-2001 01:38 PM |
What tweaking, pray tell kind sir??? :)
| ChrisW | 12-26-2001 02:18 PM |
With my target set for ESP, my current theory is going along these lines...
Suspension, in order of priority[list][*] better brake pads, I will probably go with what worked on my DSM, Axis metel masters.[*] More camber!!! Even on the street, my WRX need more negative camber. Propbaly camber plates on the front, crash bolts might be enough for the back.[*] Limited slip front diff. Very important.. When I was autoX'ing my WRX, I kept spinning the inside front wheel in tight corners[*] swaybars... preferable adjustable.[*] bigger rims... mmmmmmmm, yummy.... 255's on a WRX. :D :eek: :D It's been done, you can search that on your own...[/list]
Engine, in order of priority[list][*] STI intake hose replacement, or some type of solid (metel) intercooler pipe to prevent the hose from blowing apart or tearing.[*] exhaust.... take your pick[*] unichip without BCS for SP with BCS for SM[/list]
For me being on a poor mans budget, I might try crash bolts on the front to see if I can fix the camber problems. From my conversations with Shiv and Joel Gant(?? sorry if I butcher your name:confused:) the limited slip diff is a night and day difference in performance. You can research that more on your own.
Also, for air flow management through the engine, anything you can do to optimize the air flow through the engine will help too. This last issue is turning out to be a more tricky issue than I initially thought. With all the problem people are having with the MBC's, and Shiv's recommendation to use the stock air filter and air box(?? is this correct?:confused:) with the unichip, has caused me to re-evaluate how to properly optimize the airflow. It looks like it will turn out that that you need some type of ECU management to achieve the optimized airflow levels I desire... Don't know yet, sill looking at this problem.
Suspension, in order of priority[list][*] better brake pads, I will probably go with what worked on my DSM, Axis metel masters.[*] More camber!!! Even on the street, my WRX need more negative camber. Propbaly camber plates on the front, crash bolts might be enough for the back.[*] Limited slip front diff. Very important.. When I was autoX'ing my WRX, I kept spinning the inside front wheel in tight corners[*] swaybars... preferable adjustable.[*] bigger rims... mmmmmmmm, yummy.... 255's on a WRX. :D :eek: :D It's been done, you can search that on your own...[/list]
Engine, in order of priority[list][*] STI intake hose replacement, or some type of solid (metel) intercooler pipe to prevent the hose from blowing apart or tearing.[*] exhaust.... take your pick[*] unichip without BCS for SP with BCS for SM[/list]
For me being on a poor mans budget, I might try crash bolts on the front to see if I can fix the camber problems. From my conversations with Shiv and Joel Gant(?? sorry if I butcher your name:confused:) the limited slip diff is a night and day difference in performance. You can research that more on your own.
Also, for air flow management through the engine, anything you can do to optimize the air flow through the engine will help too. This last issue is turning out to be a more tricky issue than I initially thought. With all the problem people are having with the MBC's, and Shiv's recommendation to use the stock air filter and air box(?? is this correct?:confused:) with the unichip, has caused me to re-evaluate how to properly optimize the airflow. It looks like it will turn out that that you need some type of ECU management to achieve the optimized airflow levels I desire... Don't know yet, sill looking at this problem.
| BIGSKYWRX | 12-28-2001 12:28 PM |
A little more info on piggyback modules for SP or STX: Trey has responded to me that the unichip can be effectively tuned using timing and air/fuel only. He didn't want to guess at gains. There unichip comes w/ a boost control module, w/o it the factory system completely controls boost. Thus, by not running the boost module, just their unichip would be legal for both SP and STX. I have asked him if the control module could be added/ removed at will. This could potentially let us have our cake (unichip/ w/ module for everyday driving) and eat it (pull boost module for competition) as well.
If anyone would have interest in this, it might be worth posting in the factory forced induction forum- under unichip for SP/STX. I think this would encourage them to do so testing, etc.
Big Sky WRX
If anyone would have interest in this, it might be worth posting in the factory forced induction forum- under unichip for SP/STX. I think this would encourage them to do so testing, etc.
Big Sky WRX
| Rebellion | 12-28-2001 02:26 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SkToBe [/i]
[B]I answered you on StreetTouring forum, but I am having second thoughts about the pop-off (better know as Blow-off?) valve.
1. Yes, this should be allowed as it is a Port Installed Option (pretty sure, but not positive)
2. A different blow-off [I]should[/I] be ok as it doesn't increase boost pressure, just regulates it better... (not sure on this one - going to need the help of some more experienced folk)
3. Pulley kit would have some benefit, but it must be of the same size. (Lightened, not underdrive)
=======
The control arms are not port installed... not dealer installed either (tho some dealers will install them)
BOV is debatable... it'd probably be up to local chapters and/or asking other drivers if they mind, since for all intensive purposes a BOV does nothing but make noise.
ooh pulley kits are legal as long as they're the same size? hmmm
[B]I answered you on StreetTouring forum, but I am having second thoughts about the pop-off (better know as Blow-off?) valve.
1. Yes, this should be allowed as it is a Port Installed Option (pretty sure, but not positive)
2. A different blow-off [I]should[/I] be ok as it doesn't increase boost pressure, just regulates it better... (not sure on this one - going to need the help of some more experienced folk)
3. Pulley kit would have some benefit, but it must be of the same size. (Lightened, not underdrive)
=======
The control arms are not port installed... not dealer installed either (tho some dealers will install them)
BOV is debatable... it'd probably be up to local chapters and/or asking other drivers if they mind, since for all intensive purposes a BOV does nothing but make noise.
ooh pulley kits are legal as long as they're the same size? hmmm
| SkToBe | 12-28-2001 03:36 PM |
Ok, so the control arms (part of the suspension upgrade package) are not a port installed option and are not a dealer installed option either...
Do they give you the parts in a box for you to install yourself? :D
Do they give you the parts in a box for you to install yourself? :D
| Cliff Ditchhanger | 01-08-2002 08:12 PM |
Maybe i'm reading the release wrong, but does that mean the RS's CAN run in STX with upgraded brakes, like the 4-pots...?
| CivicSiRacer | 01-08-2002 09:25 PM |
No STX is like STS - so all the rules apply the same. Since you cannot upgrade the brakes either.
Only thing different about STX is the turbos and LSD are allowed in this class.
Only thing different about STX is the turbos and LSD are allowed in this class.
| ChrisW | 01-08-2002 09:26 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rebellion [/i]
[B][QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SkToBe [/i]
[B]I answered you on StreetTouring forum, but I am having second thoughts about the pop-off (better know as Blow-off?) valve.
....
2. A different blow-off [I]should[/I] be ok as it doesn't increase boost pressure, just regulates it better... (not sure on this one - going to need the help of some more experienced folk)
....
BOV is debatable... it'd probably be up to local chapters and/or asking other drivers if they mind, since for all intensive purposes a BOV does nothing but make noise.
[/B][/QUOTE]
well, after a WRX owner protested a 2nd Gen DSM with a 1st Gen [i]air bypass valve[/i] (the proper name for what's commonly refered to as the BOV), you cannot change the BOV. It has to remain as the stock unit, and changed as a unit with the update backdate rules. In other words, if you change the BOV you change the engine according to the established backdate rules.
This came about after the SCCA board over ruled Howard duncan's decision, which was that the BOV is part of the intercooler system and as such, un-restricted.
[url]http://www.scca.org/news/fastrack/02-02.pdf[/url]
Most of this pertains to the SP rules, but I think the STX class is also affected by this.
[B][QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SkToBe [/i]
[B]I answered you on StreetTouring forum, but I am having second thoughts about the pop-off (better know as Blow-off?) valve.
....
2. A different blow-off [I]should[/I] be ok as it doesn't increase boost pressure, just regulates it better... (not sure on this one - going to need the help of some more experienced folk)
....
BOV is debatable... it'd probably be up to local chapters and/or asking other drivers if they mind, since for all intensive purposes a BOV does nothing but make noise.
[/B][/QUOTE]
well, after a WRX owner protested a 2nd Gen DSM with a 1st Gen [i]air bypass valve[/i] (the proper name for what's commonly refered to as the BOV), you cannot change the BOV. It has to remain as the stock unit, and changed as a unit with the update backdate rules. In other words, if you change the BOV you change the engine according to the established backdate rules.
This came about after the SCCA board over ruled Howard duncan's decision, which was that the BOV is part of the intercooler system and as such, un-restricted.
[url]http://www.scca.org/news/fastrack/02-02.pdf[/url]
Most of this pertains to the SP rules, but I think the STX class is also affected by this.
| z3coupe | 01-08-2002 10:29 PM |
OUCH!!!!
But then, aren't these easy enough to replace back and forth before and after events, so that you could still get a spiffy one for street, then go back to stock for the race?
But then, aren't these easy enough to replace back and forth before and after events, so that you could still get a spiffy one for street, then go back to stock for the race?
| BIGSKYWRX | 01-08-2002 10:35 PM |
A few clarifications on STX. It is very similar to STS, but there are differences. One of the changes is any rotor or caliper is allowed (stock attachment point).
Another difference high flow cats are allowed (within 6"s of the original). Another concerns motor/tranny mounts, allows replacement if sold by factory or Motorsport subsidary ie STi.
They've definitely allowed some additional mods over STS.
I do have a question on pulleys however. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that lightened, but not underdrive, pulleys were allowed- stating they must be of the same size. Looking at Moutons site (waiting to purchase new rule book, especially w/ all the changes) its worded as the same "type", no mention of size. Does the official rule book mention size in relation to pulleys?
Thanks,
Big Sky WRX
Another difference high flow cats are allowed (within 6"s of the original). Another concerns motor/tranny mounts, allows replacement if sold by factory or Motorsport subsidary ie STi.
They've definitely allowed some additional mods over STS.
I do have a question on pulleys however. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that lightened, but not underdrive, pulleys were allowed- stating they must be of the same size. Looking at Moutons site (waiting to purchase new rule book, especially w/ all the changes) its worded as the same "type", no mention of size. Does the official rule book mention size in relation to pulleys?
Thanks,
Big Sky WRX
| ChrisW | 01-08-2002 11:46 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by z3coupe [/i]
[B]OUCH!!!!
But then, aren't these easy enough to replace back and forth before and after events, so that you could still get a spiffy one for street, then go back to stock for the race? [/B][/QUOTE]
I did that for a while with my hallman MBC... PIA to deal with. to many chances for a leak in the intercooling system.:mad:
[B]OUCH!!!!
But then, aren't these easy enough to replace back and forth before and after events, so that you could still get a spiffy one for street, then go back to stock for the race? [/B][/QUOTE]
I did that for a while with my hallman MBC... PIA to deal with. to many chances for a leak in the intercooling system.:mad:
| CivicSiRacer | 01-09-2002 08:59 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BIGSKYWRX [/i]
[B]I do have a question on pulleys however. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that lightened, but not underdrive, pulleys were allowed- stating they must be of the same size. Looking at Moutons site (waiting to purchase new rule book, especially w/ all the changes) its worded as the same "type", no mention of size. Does the official rule book mention size in relation to pulleys?
Thanks,
Big Sky WRX [/B][/QUOTE]
You can change alternator and steering pump pulleys. But you cannot add cam gears or any internal engine components. As far as I know aftermarket pulleys for STS and STX do not have ot be the same size as OEM.
[B]I do have a question on pulleys however. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that lightened, but not underdrive, pulleys were allowed- stating they must be of the same size. Looking at Moutons site (waiting to purchase new rule book, especially w/ all the changes) its worded as the same "type", no mention of size. Does the official rule book mention size in relation to pulleys?
Thanks,
Big Sky WRX [/B][/QUOTE]
You can change alternator and steering pump pulleys. But you cannot add cam gears or any internal engine components. As far as I know aftermarket pulleys for STS and STX do not have ot be the same size as OEM.
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