| MattSTi | 11-06-2006 02:02 AM |
SCCA Club Racing Driver's School Advice
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If all goes as planned, my spec miata will be ready for the track by the end of the year. Right now, I've got my sights set on the february double driver's school at Roebling Road. I was hoping that anyone who has completed an SCCA driver's school could pass on any nuggets of wisdom they might have. One thing I've done already is pick up a really cheap set of slightly victoracers to get me through the weekend without burning up a good set of RA-1's.
One major question I have is what cosmetic shape does a car need to be in for a driver's school? I'm sure I will get some funny responses on this one, but I want to be absolutely certain that I don't need to do my exterior sprucing-up before having my logbook issued and complete the school. I'm planning on replacing my front bumper skin (it's not horrible, but has a considerable amount of warping), doing some minor bodywork, and painting it after the driver's school. Other than these exterior items the car will be complete (all safety gear, full fire system, suspension, brakes, etc.)
Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Matt
One major question I have is what cosmetic shape does a car need to be in for a driver's school? I'm sure I will get some funny responses on this one, but I want to be absolutely certain that I don't need to do my exterior sprucing-up before having my logbook issued and complete the school. I'm planning on replacing my front bumper skin (it's not horrible, but has a considerable amount of warping), doing some minor bodywork, and painting it after the driver's school. Other than these exterior items the car will be complete (all safety gear, full fire system, suspension, brakes, etc.)
Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Matt
| spazegun2213 | 11-06-2006 08:09 AM |
matt,
I know nasa, pca and other bodies have the 50/50 rule for cars. It must look defect free from 50ft away at 50mph. I would use that and see what needs repaired. The "easy" way to hide dents and stuff are with stickers ;) My car has several dents in it, but you would never know at 50/50 :D
Do you burn though a set of RA-1's a weekend? I think i have 4 weekends on my set now and Odds are I'll use them for the first race next year (I'm doing the nasa school in feb at VIR).
One thing I can tell you from a scca flagger buddy, is remember, you are at school, its NOT a race, so don't get caught up in racing and miss the flags, or other things.
thats my .02 of wisdom :) good luck at the school and by the end of next year i hope to make it out to a scca ITS race :)
-Ross
I know nasa, pca and other bodies have the 50/50 rule for cars. It must look defect free from 50ft away at 50mph. I would use that and see what needs repaired. The "easy" way to hide dents and stuff are with stickers ;) My car has several dents in it, but you would never know at 50/50 :D
Do you burn though a set of RA-1's a weekend? I think i have 4 weekends on my set now and Odds are I'll use them for the first race next year (I'm doing the nasa school in feb at VIR).
One thing I can tell you from a scca flagger buddy, is remember, you are at school, its NOT a race, so don't get caught up in racing and miss the flags, or other things.
thats my .02 of wisdom :) good luck at the school and by the end of next year i hope to make it out to a scca ITS race :)
-Ross
| trhoppe | 11-06-2006 08:48 AM |
No one, not a single person, will care what your car looks like. No one cares about dents, etc etc. Just make sure none of the body panels are going to fall off by themselves.
Victos or the RA1s will both be good for the school. Either of them should last through a weekend. spazegun - its not a regular "weekend". There is 6 hours of on track time at a double school.
Go out there, have fun, stay clean, FOLLOW FLAGS, and have fun (listed twice ;) ). Pay attention to all the officials and don't get noticed. The whole idea is for them NOT to know who you are when they are signing your certificate. No one gives a damn how you do in your drivers school races. The person in last place also gets the exact same certificate as the person in 1st place. They will throw flags at you guys to surprise and catch you. When they throw the red, watch your mirrors and slow down slowly.
Have FUN!
-Tom
Victos or the RA1s will both be good for the school. Either of them should last through a weekend. spazegun - its not a regular "weekend". There is 6 hours of on track time at a double school.
Go out there, have fun, stay clean, FOLLOW FLAGS, and have fun (listed twice ;) ). Pay attention to all the officials and don't get noticed. The whole idea is for them NOT to know who you are when they are signing your certificate. No one gives a damn how you do in your drivers school races. The person in last place also gets the exact same certificate as the person in 1st place. They will throw flags at you guys to surprise and catch you. When they throw the red, watch your mirrors and slow down slowly.
Have FUN!
-Tom
| spazegun2213 | 11-06-2006 09:02 AM |
6 hours !?!?!?!? wow.. ok yea, then you need tires to burn.
| CamaroFS34 | 11-06-2006 09:02 AM |
Also, be prepared to be dog tired at the end of each day. Honestly, I was so tired after the first day of my school that I ended up just getting a ride home and leaving my car there. I wish I'd taken off from work on Monday. It's very draining, physically and mentally.
Good luck, and like teh hoppe says, [i]have fun[/i].
Karen
Good luck, and like teh hoppe says, [i]have fun[/i].
Karen
| trhoppe | 11-06-2006 09:43 AM |
Very good point. Camping at the track that weekend makes a great alternative to hotels. You can just pass out when the day is over if you are really tired, you can save some $$ and grill some food, etc, and lastly, you will NOT be late accidentally :)
-Tom
-Tom
| kfoote | 11-06-2006 10:17 AM |
Anywhere other than Roebling, I'd say one set of RA-1's would be fine, but Roebling is VERY abrasive and hard on tires.
As long as it's minor bodywork that has to be done, you should be fine. And keep hydrated. bring something to drink to EVERY classroom session, even if it's only 40 deg. out.
As long as it's minor bodywork that has to be done, you should be fine. And keep hydrated. bring something to drink to EVERY classroom session, even if it's only 40 deg. out.
| trhoppe | 11-06-2006 10:18 AM |
It got repaved :) Its not nearly as bad anymore.
You will still have to rotate as the left front will wear more, but not as much as before.
-Tom
You will still have to rotate as the left front will wear more, but not as much as before.
-Tom
| lukerussell | 11-06-2006 11:04 AM |
look at every flag stand on every lap. that's what the stewards will be concerned about (the guys that sign you off). i spun the car and nobody cared, but miss a flag and you'll be talking to the steward.
your instructor will be watching your race line, etc. drill your instructor about any real race questions you have. you'll probably get some funny stories.
and if your car looks crappy, it will probably still be the best looking car there. i know the rule book says "presentable", but many of the cars look like they just came off a dirt track race with heavy contact - and they have no problems with that - as long as it's safe. i was very surprised at how laid back the regional races and driver's schools are.
oh yea, have fresh brakes. i actually burned through a set of pads i thought would be sufficient. i had to swap right before the "race" and had to break them in during our practice pace laps and practice starts.
luke
your instructor will be watching your race line, etc. drill your instructor about any real race questions you have. you'll probably get some funny stories.
and if your car looks crappy, it will probably still be the best looking car there. i know the rule book says "presentable", but many of the cars look like they just came off a dirt track race with heavy contact - and they have no problems with that - as long as it's safe. i was very surprised at how laid back the regional races and driver's schools are.
oh yea, have fresh brakes. i actually burned through a set of pads i thought would be sufficient. i had to swap right before the "race" and had to break them in during our practice pace laps and practice starts.
luke
| DILLIGAF Racing | 11-06-2006 11:28 AM |
[QUOTE=spazegun2213;15882455]6 hours !?!?!?!? wow.. ok yea, then you need tires to burn.[/QUOTE]
not all 6 at speed though. Our schools usually spend a bit of time practicing the rolling starts. So they would have 1 lap with a pace car, 1 lap without, rinse wash repeat.
We generally take a car with a fresh set of Hoosiers, and maybe bring something as a spare, but rarely need the spares.
not all 6 at speed though. Our schools usually spend a bit of time practicing the rolling starts. So they would have 1 lap with a pace car, 1 lap without, rinse wash repeat.
We generally take a car with a fresh set of Hoosiers, and maybe bring something as a spare, but rarely need the spares.
| racerjon1 | 11-06-2006 11:52 AM |
It is probably 4 hours at speed. The first couple of sessions are under yellow flags, and station wagon (track touring with the instructor) tours are also counted as time on track. And as stated, Roebling is freshly paved, so it is easir on tires. Also - it's a school weekend, no reason to abuse tires anyway. Buy something that will be consistant, (not like what I did to Hoppe when he rented my Neon) and make them survive.
1) Make sure your car is running well. Problems that cause you to miss sessions, or take away your focus on the driving are 99% of the reason that people don't pass schools.
2) Bring the car home in one piece. SCCA drivers schools are more about learning to survive and be safe than learning how to go fast and race. Some instructors are better than others on the latter part, but surviving is what gets you the license.
3) Have fun, stay relaxed - even if it means driving slower than you think you can - there are going to be tricks and new situations, so the more relaxed you are, and the more within your limits you are the less of a chance you have of screwing something up.
4) Enjoy it. Drivers School is like camp or something. It is the most relaxed a racing weekend you may ever have. Look around, take in everything you can.
Jon K
(who hopes to be instructing at the double school in February, but that will depend on the class schedule)
1) Make sure your car is running well. Problems that cause you to miss sessions, or take away your focus on the driving are 99% of the reason that people don't pass schools.
2) Bring the car home in one piece. SCCA drivers schools are more about learning to survive and be safe than learning how to go fast and race. Some instructors are better than others on the latter part, but surviving is what gets you the license.
3) Have fun, stay relaxed - even if it means driving slower than you think you can - there are going to be tricks and new situations, so the more relaxed you are, and the more within your limits you are the less of a chance you have of screwing something up.
4) Enjoy it. Drivers School is like camp or something. It is the most relaxed a racing weekend you may ever have. Look around, take in everything you can.
Jon K
(who hopes to be instructing at the double school in February, but that will depend on the class schedule)
| MattSTi | 11-06-2006 12:14 PM |
Thanks for the all the great advice guys!
I've gathered that the school is all about safety (as it should be) and not speed. I'm sure everyone who attends a school realizes this, but with all of the excitement of the weekend I can imagine how people forget that they are at a school, not a race. I'm going to focus on preparing myself mentally for this aspect of the school over the next few months, ie., making flag stations and line predictability my main focus.
Jon K. - please let me know if you will be instructing, maybe we can meet up.
As for the tires, it's not that the RA-1's won't last, but I'd rather use up a $100 set of victoracers than put any wear on a brand new set of shaved RA-1's.
Luckily, I will be catching a ride/tow down to Roebling with the team I crew for, they will be fielding a few rentals for the school. I will bring the limited spares that I have, but will have access to spares and a lot of expertise should anything break.
-Matt
I've gathered that the school is all about safety (as it should be) and not speed. I'm sure everyone who attends a school realizes this, but with all of the excitement of the weekend I can imagine how people forget that they are at a school, not a race. I'm going to focus on preparing myself mentally for this aspect of the school over the next few months, ie., making flag stations and line predictability my main focus.
Jon K. - please let me know if you will be instructing, maybe we can meet up.
As for the tires, it's not that the RA-1's won't last, but I'd rather use up a $100 set of victoracers than put any wear on a brand new set of shaved RA-1's.
Luckily, I will be catching a ride/tow down to Roebling with the team I crew for, they will be fielding a few rentals for the school. I will bring the limited spares that I have, but will have access to spares and a lot of expertise should anything break.
-Matt
| zzyzx | 11-06-2006 12:30 PM |
[QUOTE=MattSTi;15884648]I've gathered that the school is all about safety (as it should be) and not speed. I'm sure everyone who attends a school realizes this, but with all of the excitement of the weekend I can imagine how people forget that they are at a school, not a race.[/QUOTE]
This is your best chance to learn defensive driving, IMO. Not everybody there will have their head on straight. Some there may even think they're there to try-out for F1. At the practice race, I suggest you intentionally put yourself at the back of the pack. If you end up stuck between some newbs that are after the tremendous press coverage they can get from an SCCA drivers school, you might have a problem. Be alert, watch how others are driving and anticipate problem areas/drivers and avoid them.
My school wasn't as low key as I would have liked. I had some Schumacher wannabe in a Miata off in the grass on the outside of the turn manage to whip himself back on the course hell bent on taking me out or so it seemed. My last thought seeing him out there romping through the grass - I was on the FIA curbing on the inside of the turn at the time - was "why is his still in the throttle". Well, he succeeded, took out my rear 1/4 and sent me spinning like a top into the grass. Course workers reported that he never got off the throttle while in the grass.
Good luck and stay safe.
This is your best chance to learn defensive driving, IMO. Not everybody there will have their head on straight. Some there may even think they're there to try-out for F1. At the practice race, I suggest you intentionally put yourself at the back of the pack. If you end up stuck between some newbs that are after the tremendous press coverage they can get from an SCCA drivers school, you might have a problem. Be alert, watch how others are driving and anticipate problem areas/drivers and avoid them.
My school wasn't as low key as I would have liked. I had some Schumacher wannabe in a Miata off in the grass on the outside of the turn manage to whip himself back on the course hell bent on taking me out or so it seemed. My last thought seeing him out there romping through the grass - I was on the FIA curbing on the inside of the turn at the time - was "why is his still in the throttle". Well, he succeeded, took out my rear 1/4 and sent me spinning like a top into the grass. Course workers reported that he never got off the throttle while in the grass.
Good luck and stay safe.
| ChrisDP | 11-06-2006 01:12 PM |
Have a good crew person with you. Preferably one with some track/crewing experience so they take this stuff seriously. Make a list for them to check every session. My crew guy was awesome, he's an experienced track driver and has some previous crewing experience. He went over the car religiously between every session, and if push came to shove, I know he can swap pads+rotors on the car in 20 minutes by himself, no problem. I could count on him to make any adjustments I told him, have the car ready to run and in grid on time. I'd walk straight out of the classroom, have a brief instructor debrief then, and jump in the car. It was a HUGE help knowing the car was in good hands and all I had to do was drive. The instructor ridealongs were very helpful particularly for the simulated passing scenarios. Ask lots of questions, pump your instructor for info. They have a lot to offer.
As has been said before, keep your nose clean. There will be some people who either don't know, or look like they don't know what they're doing. Don't be one of them, and stay clear of them.
You may want to tape a checklist of pre-session stuff...ie helmet, suit, gloves, neck restraint, shoes, gloves, harness, mirrors, QR wheel attach in the order you need to do it. trying to get a helmet on with your glove already on eats time and makes you anxious if you're scrambling to get done with the 1 minute board up.
As has been said before, keep your nose clean. There will be some people who either don't know, or look like they don't know what they're doing. Don't be one of them, and stay clear of them.
You may want to tape a checklist of pre-session stuff...ie helmet, suit, gloves, neck restraint, shoes, gloves, harness, mirrors, QR wheel attach in the order you need to do it. trying to get a helmet on with your glove already on eats time and makes you anxious if you're scrambling to get done with the 1 minute board up.
| GarySheehan | 11-06-2006 01:33 PM |
They guys that have mentioned following the flags are right on. DO NOT miss a flag.
Also, they are looking to see that you won't be overwhelmed on the track with other drivers. The "race" is not a race. Drive it at 8/10ths, keep out of the way of the crazies, drive the right line when you're not side-by-side with anyone and don't make any mistakes (which shouldn't be hard at 8/10ths.)
Good luck and have fun.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url]
Also, they are looking to see that you won't be overwhelmed on the track with other drivers. The "race" is not a race. Drive it at 8/10ths, keep out of the way of the crazies, drive the right line when you're not side-by-side with anyone and don't make any mistakes (which shouldn't be hard at 8/10ths.)
Good luck and have fun.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url]
| blue blurr | 11-06-2006 03:11 PM |
Awesome, my Spec Miata is just about done and I will be doing my drivers school in March :) I think that makes three Spec Miata's for NASIOC.
| GarySheehan | 11-06-2006 03:52 PM |
[QUOTE=blue blurr;15887248]Awesome, my Spec Miata is just about done and I will be doing my drivers school in March :) I think that makes three Spec Miata's for NASIOC.[/QUOTE]
I'm building one for fun, as well. About 75% done.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url]
I'm building one for fun, as well. About 75% done.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url]
| DILLIGAF Racing | 11-06-2006 08:33 PM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan;15887929]I'm building one for fun, as well. About 75% done.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url][/QUOTE]
I'm too damn tall for one, so thats one club I won't be joining.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url][/QUOTE]
I'm too damn tall for one, so thats one club I won't be joining.
| blue blurr | 11-06-2006 08:59 PM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan;15887929]I'm building one for fun, as well. About 75% done.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url][/QUOTE]
You had TC design do the cage right? I have there cage with a Sparco Evo seat, but I am getting a Circuit and they mentioned a customer who had that set up, I think that was you?
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url][/QUOTE]
You had TC design do the cage right? I have there cage with a Sparco Evo seat, but I am getting a Circuit and they mentioned a customer who had that set up, I think that was you?
| kfoote | 11-07-2006 10:25 AM |
[QUOTE=DILLIGAF Racing;15891859]I'm too damn tall for one, so thats one club I won't be joining.[/QUOTE]
How tall are you? With a properly designed seat and cage, you'd need to be taller than about 6'10" to not fit in a spec Miata.
I'm 6'1", and don't fit well in the stock seats, but with where my seat is on my car, I've had 3 peopel 6'4" or taller say they could drive it comfortably as is, and the seat could be moved back about another 4" if necessarry. It's not a spec, but it's a 99 SCCA SSB car, and they have the same amount of room in them. You do have to designe the cage a bit differently, but it can be done. 6'8" 330 lbs is the biggest person I've actually seen drive a Spec Miata.
How tall are you? With a properly designed seat and cage, you'd need to be taller than about 6'10" to not fit in a spec Miata.
I'm 6'1", and don't fit well in the stock seats, but with where my seat is on my car, I've had 3 peopel 6'4" or taller say they could drive it comfortably as is, and the seat could be moved back about another 4" if necessarry. It's not a spec, but it's a 99 SCCA SSB car, and they have the same amount of room in them. You do have to designe the cage a bit differently, but it can be done. 6'8" 330 lbs is the biggest person I've actually seen drive a Spec Miata.
| DILLIGAF Racing | 11-07-2006 10:57 AM |
[QUOTE=kfoote;15898003]How tall are you? With a properly designed seat and cage, you'd need to be taller than about 6'10" to not fit in a spec Miata.
I'm 6'1", and don't fit well in the stock seats, but with where my seat is on my car, I've had 3 peopel 6'4" or taller say they could drive it comfortably as is, and the seat could be moved back about another 4" if necessarry. It's not a spec, but it's a 99 SCCA SSB car, and they have the same amount of room in them. You do have to designe the cage a bit differently, but it can be done. 6'8" 330 lbs is the biggest person I've actually seen drive a Spec Miata.[/QUOTE]
I'm around 6'6". I've never attempted sitting in a built spec car, just a street car.
I'm 6'1", and don't fit well in the stock seats, but with where my seat is on my car, I've had 3 peopel 6'4" or taller say they could drive it comfortably as is, and the seat could be moved back about another 4" if necessarry. It's not a spec, but it's a 99 SCCA SSB car, and they have the same amount of room in them. You do have to designe the cage a bit differently, but it can be done. 6'8" 330 lbs is the biggest person I've actually seen drive a Spec Miata.[/QUOTE]
I'm around 6'6". I've never attempted sitting in a built spec car, just a street car.
| spazegun2213 | 11-07-2006 12:18 PM |
[QUOTE=DILLIGAF Racing;15898441]I'm around 6'6". I've never attempted sitting in a built spec car, just a street car.[/QUOTE]
if you bolt the seat to the tub, ALL the way back to the bulkhead you'll be fine. I know a few 6'4"+ guys that "fit". I'm 6'2" and fit just fine, it will take some time but you can make it work.
if you bolt the seat to the tub, ALL the way back to the bulkhead you'll be fine. I know a few 6'4"+ guys that "fit". I'm 6'2" and fit just fine, it will take some time but you can make it work.
| Rice & Gravy | 11-07-2006 02:24 PM |
Hi Matt and good luck. Did anyone mention pay attention to the flags?? :lol: Especially the "races" on day two :)
<--- SCCA Flagger
We had 2 SM guys miss black flags from 4 thru 10 at SP at the school this fall. They just kept racing one another alone on course too. Not good.
Steve
<--- SCCA Flagger
We had 2 SM guys miss black flags from 4 thru 10 at SP at the school this fall. They just kept racing one another alone on course too. Not good.
Steve
| GarySheehan | 11-07-2006 02:50 PM |
[QUOTE=blue blurr;15892173]You had TC design do the cage right? I have there cage with a Sparco Evo seat, but I am getting a Circuit and they mentioned a customer who had that set up, I think that was you?[/QUOTE]
Yes, Tony built the cage and I've got the Circuit in there. It's a pretty snug seat. Make sure you test your butt in there before you buy.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url]
Yes, Tony built the cage and I've got the Circuit in there. It's a pretty snug seat. Make sure you test your butt in there before you buy.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url]
| blue blurr | 11-07-2006 05:24 PM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan;15902197]Yes, Tony built the cage and I've got the Circuit in there. It's a pretty snug seat. Make sure you test your butt in there before you buy.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url][/QUOTE]
Do you remember if they had to do anything special for the seat to work? My cage and seat mount are built for/around a Sparco Evo, I'm hoping the circuit will fit because of the head protection.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url][/QUOTE]
Do you remember if they had to do anything special for the seat to work? My cage and seat mount are built for/around a Sparco Evo, I'm hoping the circuit will fit because of the head protection.
| MattSTi | 11-07-2006 11:21 PM |
[QUOTE=DILLIGAF Racing;15898441]I'm around 6'6". I've never attempted sitting in a built spec car, just a street car.[/QUOTE]
I was really suprised to see how much room these cars have when the interior is gutted and the seat is mounted to the floor. I'm 6'0" and have an ultrashield aluminum seat mounted directly to the floor. I have a very comfortable seating position withroom to move the seat back a few inches if I needed to. Even at my modest height, sitting in a full-interior miata was very cramped and uncomfortable.
Thanks for all of the advice guys!
-Matt
I was really suprised to see how much room these cars have when the interior is gutted and the seat is mounted to the floor. I'm 6'0" and have an ultrashield aluminum seat mounted directly to the floor. I have a very comfortable seating position withroom to move the seat back a few inches if I needed to. Even at my modest height, sitting in a full-interior miata was very cramped and uncomfortable.
Thanks for all of the advice guys!
-Matt
| GarySheehan | 11-08-2006 10:16 AM |
[QUOTE=blue blurr;15904721]Do you remember if they had to do anything special for the seat to work? My cage and seat mount are built for/around a Sparco Evo, I'm hoping the circuit will fit because of the head protection.[/QUOTE]
The head protection makes this seat a real PITA to mount in the car. Tony fabbed a seat mount specifically for this seat. The left head wing of the seat sticks out beyond the top tube of the cage, so it limits how far back the seat can go. It fits, but it's tricky.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url]
The head protection makes this seat a real PITA to mount in the car. Tony fabbed a seat mount specifically for this seat. The left head wing of the seat sticks out beyond the top tube of the cage, so it limits how far back the seat can go. It fits, but it's tricky.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url]
| blue blurr | 11-08-2006 10:25 AM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan;15912464]The head protection makes this seat a real PITA to mount in the car. Tony fabbed a seat mount specifically for this seat. The left head wing of the seat sticks out beyond the top tube of the cage, so it limits how far back the seat can go. It fits, but it's tricky.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url][/QUOTE]
eek I wonder if that means I will have to get another seat mount made :-/ :(
I'm 5'6 so the seat is pretty close
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.garysheehan.com[/url][/QUOTE]
eek I wonder if that means I will have to get another seat mount made :-/ :(
I'm 5'6 so the seat is pretty close
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