| Durmiente | 01-25-2007 11:14 AM |
Should I track my auto-x set of Azenis?
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Well i just bought some Falken Azenis RT615s 235/40/17 on 17x8 and they are pretty much brand new. I have ~70-100 miles on them from daily driving, then I took them off, planning to reserve them for auto-x.
This weekend there is a track event for $40 that will probably give me 3-4 runs of 10-15 laps each. It translates to about 60 miles of tracking. How do the RT615s hold up? I am very hesitant to track a brand new tire... don't wanna wear it too badly as I much rather prefer auto-x over track and want the set to last a whole season at the very least. What do you guys think?
the weather is slated to be ~52 degrees and sunny.
How much of a toll would this be on the stock brakes and engine? I also don't want my car to break, as it is a DD as well.
This weekend there is a track event for $40 that will probably give me 3-4 runs of 10-15 laps each. It translates to about 60 miles of tracking. How do the RT615s hold up? I am very hesitant to track a brand new tire... don't wanna wear it too badly as I much rather prefer auto-x over track and want the set to last a whole season at the very least. What do you guys think?
the weather is slated to be ~52 degrees and sunny.
How much of a toll would this be on the stock brakes and engine? I also don't want my car to break, as it is a DD as well.
| 555ideways | 01-25-2007 11:24 AM |
that's a crazy deal on a track day. $40 for 3-4 sessions! The azenis will be great - i would def run them. What's the other option for tires? Just don't slide everywhere like a madman the first time out.
Your motor won't even flinch at 60 track miles. Your brakes might be a little tired and overworked depending on how hard you're going to be driving.
Your motor won't even flinch at 60 track miles. Your brakes might be a little tired and overworked depending on how hard you're going to be driving.
| 555ideways | 01-25-2007 11:26 AM |
Hoosiers wear quickly. Full depth street tires do not.
| REX8 | 01-25-2007 11:28 AM |
It will work full depth Azenis pretty good if you don't take care of them. They already don't do so well with heat.
Drive them carefully, don't push them when they get hot, and you shouldn't melt them up too badly. They won't be as fast for autox, but, I doubt that makes a big difference to you anyway...
WHy 235s and not 245's btw?
Have fun! GREAT deal on the track day.
Drive them carefully, don't push them when they get hot, and you shouldn't melt them up too badly. They won't be as fast for autox, but, I doubt that makes a big difference to you anyway...
WHy 235s and not 245's btw?
Have fun! GREAT deal on the track day.
| REX8 | 01-25-2007 11:29 AM |
[QUOTE=555ideways;16804702]Hoosiers wear quickly. Full depth street tires do not.[/QUOTE]
No, full depth street tires create too much heat. You can smear the tread right off full depth summers rather quickly if you overdrive them when they get hot. Happens a lot actually.
And if he wants to keep them fresh for autox, well, thats a factor as well.
To the op: You should EASILY still get a full season of autox out of them after a short track day, no problem there at all.
When they get hot, and you'll know it, just back off them and you'll be 100% fine.
And for gods sakes, heat cycle them BEFORE you get on the track! :lol:
No, full depth street tires create too much heat. You can smear the tread right off full depth summers rather quickly if you overdrive them when they get hot. Happens a lot actually.
And if he wants to keep them fresh for autox, well, thats a factor as well.
To the op: You should EASILY still get a full season of autox out of them after a short track day, no problem there at all.
When they get hot, and you'll know it, just back off them and you'll be 100% fine.
And for gods sakes, heat cycle them BEFORE you get on the track! :lol:
| 555ideways | 01-25-2007 11:45 AM |
If you overdrive them they will chunk and tear apart. Agreed. But they won't wear as quickly as 60 treadwear r comps if driven with care.
| sirfrankwilliams | 01-25-2007 11:45 AM |
[quote=Durmiente;16804503]This weekend there is a track event for $40 that will probably give me 3-4 runs of 10-15 laps each. [/quote]
Wow, that's a great deal. What track is this at?
Wow, that's a great deal. What track is this at?
| dowroa | 01-25-2007 12:09 PM |
[QUOTE=REX8;16804747]It will work full depth Azenis pretty good if you don't take care of them. They already don't do so well with heat.
Drive them carefully, don't push them when they get hot, and you shouldn't melt them up too badly. They won't be as fast for autox, but, I doubt that makes a big difference to you anyway...
WHy 235s and not 245's btw?
Have fun! GREAT deal on the track day.[/QUOTE]
#1 -- The will be fine for non-National events
#2 -- 235s gearing >> 245s. You are not losing much here, and it is much more advantageous.
Have fun on the track day. I would put some heat into those tires a few times before tracking them. My experience with my 245s 615s is that they were just as greasy new as the 215s. I would get a few heat cycles into them, and then take them to the track.
Have fun, and I would do it.
- dow
Drive them carefully, don't push them when they get hot, and you shouldn't melt them up too badly. They won't be as fast for autox, but, I doubt that makes a big difference to you anyway...
WHy 235s and not 245's btw?
Have fun! GREAT deal on the track day.[/QUOTE]
#1 -- The will be fine for non-National events
#2 -- 235s gearing >> 245s. You are not losing much here, and it is much more advantageous.
Have fun on the track day. I would put some heat into those tires a few times before tracking them. My experience with my 245s 615s is that they were just as greasy new as the 215s. I would get a few heat cycles into them, and then take them to the track.
Have fun, and I would do it.
- dow
| Durmiente | 01-25-2007 03:06 PM |
well, what does it take to heat cycle them? i did a few circles in a parking lot once to test them but I wasn't pushing them too hard... wasn't even squeeling them, but I did hear that very very slight scrubbing sound of the tires gripping the pavement.
The track is Sandia Motorsports Raceway out here in Albuquerque, NM. I know its a pretty good deal, but this happens every month or so... was just thinking it would be better to do it in the winter rather than in the summer when it can be ~100* outside.
I'm also really nervous about racing with others. It will be about 10 people on the track at once, but the opportunity does arise to pass. I'm afraid of people who might drive a bit too aggressively... don't want anyone bumping into me.
The only other tires I have are stock wheels with stock tires at 7/32" tread. I figure track would eat them up pretty bad. They are my DD set so I'd like them to last at least a year. But maybe I should just use them? How do they hold up at the track?
Looking forward to hearing more about how to heat cycle my azenis (if it is even possible to do that before Saturday).
The track is Sandia Motorsports Raceway out here in Albuquerque, NM. I know its a pretty good deal, but this happens every month or so... was just thinking it would be better to do it in the winter rather than in the summer when it can be ~100* outside.
I'm also really nervous about racing with others. It will be about 10 people on the track at once, but the opportunity does arise to pass. I'm afraid of people who might drive a bit too aggressively... don't want anyone bumping into me.
The only other tires I have are stock wheels with stock tires at 7/32" tread. I figure track would eat them up pretty bad. They are my DD set so I'd like them to last at least a year. But maybe I should just use them? How do they hold up at the track?
Looking forward to hearing more about how to heat cycle my azenis (if it is even possible to do that before Saturday).
| sirfrankwilliams | 01-25-2007 04:07 PM |
[quote=Durmiente;16808209]I'm also really nervous about racing with others. It will be about 10 people on the track at once, but the opportunity does arise to pass. I'm afraid of people who might drive a bit too aggressively... don't want anyone bumping into me.[/quote]
I'm not sure how they run things at there, but the run groups should be broken into different skill levels. In NASA 'HPDE', there are groups 1-4 with 1 being novice and 4 the most advanced. In group 1, there are instructors riding along, usually at all times and there is passing only along designated straights. Group 2 don't need instructors riding along, but run in the same group and have the same passing rules. Group 3 runs in thier own session with more passing sections and more are opened up as the weekend progresses. Group 4 also now has thier own session (used to run with Time Trials) and can pass anywhere at anytime.
Any decently organized track day will have saftey paramount and will organize thier event as such, but being nervous is probably healthy as this can still be dangerous. :)
I'm not sure how they run things at there, but the run groups should be broken into different skill levels. In NASA 'HPDE', there are groups 1-4 with 1 being novice and 4 the most advanced. In group 1, there are instructors riding along, usually at all times and there is passing only along designated straights. Group 2 don't need instructors riding along, but run in the same group and have the same passing rules. Group 3 runs in thier own session with more passing sections and more are opened up as the weekend progresses. Group 4 also now has thier own session (used to run with Time Trials) and can pass anywhere at anytime.
Any decently organized track day will have saftey paramount and will organize thier event as such, but being nervous is probably healthy as this can still be dangerous. :)
| Crash477 | 01-25-2007 08:17 PM |
Ive tracked my 615s, and they did well. They get a little greasy after 3-4 hot laps.
| REX8 | 01-25-2007 08:36 PM |
[QUOTE=Durmiente;16808209]well, what does it take to heat cycle them? i did a few circles in a parking lot once to test them but I wasn't pushing them too hard... wasn't even squeeling them, but I did hear that very very slight scrubbing sound of the tires gripping the pavement.
The track is Sandia Motorsports Raceway out here in Albuquerque, NM. I know its a pretty good deal, but this happens every month or so... was just thinking it would be better to do it in the winter rather than in the summer when it can be ~100* outside.
I'm also really nervous about racing with others. It will be about 10 people on the track at once, but the opportunity does arise to pass. I'm afraid of people who might drive a bit too aggressively... don't want anyone bumping into me.
The only other tires I have are stock wheels with stock tires at 7/32" tread. I figure track would eat them up pretty bad. They are my DD set so I'd like them to last at least a year. But maybe I should just use them? How do they hold up at the track?
Looking forward to hearing more about how to heat cycle my azenis (if it is even possible to do that before Saturday).[/QUOTE]
Basically, you need to get them up to temp, then let them cool slowly. Take them down the freeway, maybe a brisk off-ramp or two.
Definately run the Azenis. Just be mindful when they get hot at such a high tread depth.
The track is Sandia Motorsports Raceway out here in Albuquerque, NM. I know its a pretty good deal, but this happens every month or so... was just thinking it would be better to do it in the winter rather than in the summer when it can be ~100* outside.
I'm also really nervous about racing with others. It will be about 10 people on the track at once, but the opportunity does arise to pass. I'm afraid of people who might drive a bit too aggressively... don't want anyone bumping into me.
The only other tires I have are stock wheels with stock tires at 7/32" tread. I figure track would eat them up pretty bad. They are my DD set so I'd like them to last at least a year. But maybe I should just use them? How do they hold up at the track?
Looking forward to hearing more about how to heat cycle my azenis (if it is even possible to do that before Saturday).[/QUOTE]
Basically, you need to get them up to temp, then let them cool slowly. Take them down the freeway, maybe a brisk off-ramp or two.
Definately run the Azenis. Just be mindful when they get hot at such a high tread depth.
| Durmiente | 01-26-2007 03:11 AM |
you think the circling I did in the parking lot was enough then? basically i started out slow and kept giving it more gas (in 1st gear) till I was getting some good g-forces into the side of my seat. I did it in both directions, basically just experimenting with the grip levels (and seeing if it would rub or not).
| Mykl | 01-26-2007 08:52 AM |
I would. But I would be careful not to overdrive the car into corners though. Slow in fast out.
| Mykl | 01-26-2007 08:54 AM |
[QUOTE=Durmiente;16816858]you think the circling I did in the parking lot was enough then? basically i started out slow and kept giving it more gas (in 1st gear) till I was getting some good g-forces into the side of my seat. I did it in both directions, basically just experimenting with the grip levels (and seeing if it would rub or not).[/QUOTE]
I bought a set of Azenis in Atlanta the day before a track day. I drove them home from Atlanta to Montgomery, Alabama, then the next morning to Birmingham, Alabama. The tires did fine and lasted just as long as any other Azenis I've owned.
I bought a set of Azenis in Atlanta the day before a track day. I drove them home from Atlanta to Montgomery, Alabama, then the next morning to Birmingham, Alabama. The tires did fine and lasted just as long as any other Azenis I've owned.
| Impala SS AutoXer | 01-26-2007 01:50 PM |
My experience is from the 215s, not the 615s, but....
Had a fairly new set of 215s. Stuck like glue for autocross.
Ran ONE track day on them in about 80 deg ambient temps. If I remember right, about 80 miles total of on-track miles at Buttonwillow Raceway.
After that, they definitely lost "something" as far as stickiness. Surely not down to "OMG RE92s are gonna cause me to spin off the road!!1!!!1!1" state :), but they did lose some of their grip. That set never did work "right" as an autocross set after that.
So I'd vote "no" on running them on the track unless you're willing to "sacrifice" the set to being local autocross event only, and always frustrating because you're loosing that last few tenths over what the tires WOULD grip if you hadn't tracked them. I know I sure wish I hadn't tracked them....
Had a fairly new set of 215s. Stuck like glue for autocross.
Ran ONE track day on them in about 80 deg ambient temps. If I remember right, about 80 miles total of on-track miles at Buttonwillow Raceway.
After that, they definitely lost "something" as far as stickiness. Surely not down to "OMG RE92s are gonna cause me to spin off the road!!1!!!1!1" state :), but they did lose some of their grip. That set never did work "right" as an autocross set after that.
So I'd vote "no" on running them on the track unless you're willing to "sacrifice" the set to being local autocross event only, and always frustrating because you're loosing that last few tenths over what the tires WOULD grip if you hadn't tracked them. I know I sure wish I hadn't tracked them....
| silver arrow | 01-26-2007 04:16 PM |
^^^^^^^^^^agreed
| Fastcracka | 01-26-2007 05:14 PM |
The 615 don't like as much heat as some other tires(i.e. RS2s, RE01s), you will get greasy on them. Just take it easy once you start sliding and you should be fine. Have a great time.
| Durmiente | 01-26-2007 06:22 PM |
[QUOTE=Impala SS AutoXer;16821674]My experience is from the 215s, not the 615s, but....
Had a fairly new set of 215s. Stuck like glue for autocross.
Ran ONE track day on them in about 80 deg ambient temps. If I remember right, about 80 miles total of on-track miles at Buttonwillow Raceway.
After that, they definitely lost "something" as far as stickiness. Surely not down to "OMG RE92s are gonna cause me to spin off the road!!1!!!1!1" state :), but they did lose some of their grip. That set never did work "right" as an autocross set after that.
So I'd vote "no" on running them on the track unless you're willing to "sacrifice" the set to being local autocross event only, and always frustrating because you're loosing that last few tenths over what the tires WOULD grip if you hadn't tracked them. I know I sure wish I hadn't tracked them....[/QUOTE]
so i was thinking of doing it, till I read this.
I really don't want to damage them... so I am thinking now I will just sit this one out. I bought these for auto-x only and don't want them to get jacked up.
How do the RE-92s hold up at the track? if they are tolerable I might just run them just for the hell of it.... but maybe that isn't a good idea safety wise. I got a big sway bar on the front and back so the car might react weirdly with crappy tires... never really pushed the car on these tires with this suspension setup before.
Had a fairly new set of 215s. Stuck like glue for autocross.
Ran ONE track day on them in about 80 deg ambient temps. If I remember right, about 80 miles total of on-track miles at Buttonwillow Raceway.
After that, they definitely lost "something" as far as stickiness. Surely not down to "OMG RE92s are gonna cause me to spin off the road!!1!!!1!1" state :), but they did lose some of their grip. That set never did work "right" as an autocross set after that.
So I'd vote "no" on running them on the track unless you're willing to "sacrifice" the set to being local autocross event only, and always frustrating because you're loosing that last few tenths over what the tires WOULD grip if you hadn't tracked them. I know I sure wish I hadn't tracked them....[/QUOTE]
so i was thinking of doing it, till I read this.
I really don't want to damage them... so I am thinking now I will just sit this one out. I bought these for auto-x only and don't want them to get jacked up.
How do the RE-92s hold up at the track? if they are tolerable I might just run them just for the hell of it.... but maybe that isn't a good idea safety wise. I got a big sway bar on the front and back so the car might react weirdly with crappy tires... never really pushed the car on these tires with this suspension setup before.
| silver arrow | 01-26-2007 06:44 PM |
See if you can find some take off RE070's with a at least 50% tread. Should be able to get them cheap, you will feel like you increase spring rate 100lbs and the are very easy to drive fast.
| sirfrankwilliams | 01-26-2007 06:44 PM |
One track day I was at had a guy in a modded WRX wagon with RE92s and he was smokin fast. So much so that I didn't want to try keeping up with him on my RA-1s. :( I was feeling bad about how slow I was in comparison until I came around up to find him spun into the tire wall with the whole side of his car dented up.
So, you can track with RE92s, but they definately have thier limits. This guy found them the hard way. From what I overheard, their 'grip' was consistant until they got too hot and gave way when he did his slow spin. It would have been harmless if this corner (turn 9 at ThunderHill) wasn't so close to tire wall.
[SIZE=1]buck up and get some race rubber? ;)[/SIZE]
So, you can track with RE92s, but they definately have thier limits. This guy found them the hard way. From what I overheard, their 'grip' was consistant until they got too hot and gave way when he did his slow spin. It would have been harmless if this corner (turn 9 at ThunderHill) wasn't so close to tire wall.
[SIZE=1]buck up and get some race rubber? ;)[/SIZE]
| Durmiente | 01-26-2007 11:04 PM |
heh, just spent ~$1300 on wheels and tires for auto-x. I have 3 stock wheels so might find another and get some stockish sized slicks.
I'm sitting out tomorrow. I think its the best thing.. Dont want to mess up my expensive auto-x tires, especially since I plan on going for the season's STX championship (locally) with them.
I'm sitting out tomorrow. I think its the best thing.. Dont want to mess up my expensive auto-x tires, especially since I plan on going for the season's STX championship (locally) with them.
| Durmiente | 01-30-2007 10:50 AM |
an update -
I didn't do the track day. I had a few friends do it, though.
They got 3 sessions each of 20 minutes. They put ~100 track miles on their cars.
One of my friends corded her practically brand new Toyo Praxes RA1 R-comps.... she just bought them used with ~75% left. Another corded his street tires (which were in pretty bad shape as it was).
I'm very happy I didnt go. 20 minute sessions would have eaten my tires alive! I think track is not good for the car until I have more money and perhaps a dedicated race car. Thanks for all the input. I'm glad I held myself back this time.
I didn't do the track day. I had a few friends do it, though.
They got 3 sessions each of 20 minutes. They put ~100 track miles on their cars.
One of my friends corded her practically brand new Toyo Praxes RA1 R-comps.... she just bought them used with ~75% left. Another corded his street tires (which were in pretty bad shape as it was).
I'm very happy I didnt go. 20 minute sessions would have eaten my tires alive! I think track is not good for the car until I have more money and perhaps a dedicated race car. Thanks for all the input. I'm glad I held myself back this time.
| sirfrankwilliams | 01-30-2007 12:16 PM |
:eek:
Wow, that sounds like a really abrasive track!
Prudence usually pays off even if its not the most fun. ;)
I don't think you need a dedicated track car yet (although thats what most of us dream of), but track tires and probably upgraded brakes should be standard track gear. The sad truth of it is that track days is 'esspensive- but they are also about 1,000% more fun than autoxing or rallyxing. I hope you make it out for a track day as soon as its possible for you.
edit; threads are more fun with pictures.
[img]http://sandiamotorsports.com/images/aerial_photo_sm.jpg[/img]
Wow, that sounds like a really abrasive track!
Prudence usually pays off even if its not the most fun. ;)
I don't think you need a dedicated track car yet (although thats what most of us dream of), but track tires and probably upgraded brakes should be standard track gear. The sad truth of it is that track days is 'esspensive- but they are also about 1,000% more fun than autoxing or rallyxing. I hope you make it out for a track day as soon as its possible for you.
edit; threads are more fun with pictures.
[img]http://sandiamotorsports.com/images/aerial_photo_sm.jpg[/img]
| Durmiente | 01-31-2007 01:32 AM |
yeah the track is apparently known as being pretty bad for tire wear, from what a few people were telling me. Looks like I will need another dedicated set if I want to do track! maybe in a year or two.... or maybe once my auto-x tires are dead.
The SCCA is actually doing an event at the track soon. I think I might do it, as it will be a fast event without the endurance required for a normal track day. Not a bad way to check out the track.
I've done this track a few times, just never with constant lapping.
The SCCA is actually doing an event at the track soon. I think I might do it, as it will be a fast event without the endurance required for a normal track day. Not a bad way to check out the track.
I've done this track a few times, just never with constant lapping.
| driftgear | 01-31-2007 02:28 AM |
god damn, rt's are so bang for the buck - freakin advans cost 300 bux each arghh
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