Sti and group N part 1

recce02

10-30-2003 05:05 PM

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Sti and group N
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Does the American version of the STI fall in the GroupN catagory in Rallying?

Peace out Marvin
Gravel Crew Rally Team USA

WRXMaster

10-30-2003 05:58 PM

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negative .............motor too big :devil:

AlanO

10-30-2003 06:56 PM

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Not homologated, either.

recce02

10-30-2003 07:13 PM

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ok thanks, because of the 2.5L engine? Oh well I guess I have to plan for a different GroupN car or go open class with it, pr maybe stick with Production GT he he he. Thank you for the answers

dwx	10-30-2003 07:57 PM

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There are a couple guys that have sold 2.5L engines on here with like 10 miles on them due to the fact they were building the 04 STI for open or GroupN. They were swapping them for V7 or V8 JDM motors.

recce02

10-30-2003 08:04 PM

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hmmmm that is another option, thanks

WRXMaster

10-30-2003 09:20 PM

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I would stick with pgt................then upgrade to open:devil:

AlanO

10-30-2003 09:58 PM

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IIRC if you want to run PGT, you can't change the brakes, so you would have to run 17" wheels and tires. And I think the 2.5 Turbo engine may have to run with a smaller restrictor.

It would be a good idea to check the rules though.

Might be better off starting with a different car altogether.

ANZAC_1915

10-30-2003 11:27 PM

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Yes, read the PGT rules....

[edit]
you'd need to run a restrictor and you'd be stuck with the Brembos. Found any 17" rally tires lately?

Chaste Automotive

10-31-2003 02:02 AM

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STi is not group n legal, The only group n homologated chassis code at this time is GDB. You cannot convert any american GD series chassis to be legal in Group N it must have a GDB on the vin so JDM shell only. This is regardless of what anyone in the SCCA says or Mark Utecht, not trying to be mean but this is the facts. mark may have gotten away with the local homologation thing last year but this year peopel will protest Group N legality more here. There is a lot of money at stake and it is unfair to those of us that take the time to build a homologated car to have to compete on a playing field that is not level. Marvin if you would like to look at the N9(Current 04 GDB) of GC8 homologation papers just drop me a call. Next year it is all going to change since Subaru is going to homologate a hydraulic handbrake and ditch the cable one. This will open up a lot of possibilities with the brakes (currently only Brembos and STi 4/2 pot configuration is legal). As a note only homologated cages are legal in Group N which means for the GD chassis only the safety devies or prodrive cage are currently homologated for this chassis. you cannot build a Group N legal cage at this time yourself for. A lot of things to consider, I have an MP# also of the scrutineer from the UK that came over to Snowdrift and basicaly said that almost every Group N car in the US is illegal.

Jeff
Chaste Automotive
323-365-2358

Chaste Automotive

10-31-2003 02:04 AM

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DWX that was us that sold the 2.5 but we later had to find another and sell the car complete because we needed a JDM Chassis which we have purchased. Group N regulations are very very clear clear, people just do not want to go to the trouble of building a legal car.

recce02

10-31-2003 04:07 PM

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awesome, thank you very much for the advice, I currently am running a WRX in Production GT. I am just looking around for the next step up from the class. I would like to build a Group N car as my next rally car and would like to stay away from open class because I lack the experience and funding to run a faster class like open. I also am looking to run a Group N car because in the future I would like to do some rallies in Canada or maybe even Mexico. That is why I am leaning towards building a Group N car.
Thanks

Subie Gal

10-31-2003 07:30 PM

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if you lack funding...
do NOT go into Group N

i have yet to see a "legal" gp n car in the usa.
namely cuz they're just too damn expensive to build.

seriously...
investigate the costs of homologated group n cars...
you think open is expensive.... :rolleyes:

good luck
Jamie

recce02

10-31-2003 08:00 PM

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really? ok i am still open to what kind of car I want to build next. It will still be a few more years down the road, but I try to get a game plan going before I take my first step. It took until Subaru brought the WRX over for me to build my current car. I am a very patient person, so taking my time to do the research won't be that hard at all. Again, thank you all for your help and advice and I will consider what everyone has said.

Peace out Marvin
Gravel Crew Rally Team USA

Geek Guy

10-31-2003 09:06 PM

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Running in open doesn't have to be that expensive. Granted, you won't WIN your class against the likes of the factory teams, but you'll sure have a LOT of fun. That's what we do... our old car was a 94L AWD with a 1.8 motor, then went to a 2.5 and raced in open. Now we race a 98RS with a 95 WRX driveline in open. Won't win, but we're out to spoil the results for people who regularly place high in the points! ;)

recce02

10-31-2003 11:03 PM

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right on Geek Guy!!!!! It does sound like fun. I personally don't go to every rally in hopes to win. I do though, try and finish every rally that I enter. Luckily so far this year I have done that. It kind of helps me out when I force myself to drive my car to the races and have to drive back. It really helps me focus more on driving and not trying to haul arse and wad it up. I have done so much work and my crew has helped me out so much that, if I go out and try to post fast stage times and wad it up it would just rip them and myself apart. I just feel, in a couple of years I will be able to step it up to a faster class and have the seat time to be very competitive. Or maybe I will be racing a car that isn't mine. Well it soesn't hurt to dream now does it?

mykrrrr

10-31-2003 11:12 PM

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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by recce02 [/i]
[B]It kind of helps me out when I force myself to drive my car to the races and have to drive back. [/B][/QUOTE]

Man, that takes some bollocks to drive it to and from the rallies.

Good luck in your rallying. I hope to be in the navvie seat w/my friend this winter @ Sno*Drift. I just gotta get my ish together and get a suit and all the gear. :rolleyes:

-mykr.

recce02

10-31-2003 11:31 PM

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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mykrrrr [/i]
[B]Man, that takes some bollocks to drive it to and from the rallies.
-mykr. [/B][/QUOTE]

I think you are the one with the bollocks.:lol: :lol: I can't co-drive, I get car sick, and plus I wouldn't be able to trust anyone behind the wheel at speed. Anyways good luck to you and remember, Rally On

Peace out Marvin
Gravel Crew Rally Team USA

mykrrrr

11-01-2003 02:24 PM

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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by recce02 [/i]
[B]I think you are the one with the bollocks.:lol: :lol: I can't co-drive, I get car sick, and plus I wouldn't be able to trust anyone behind the wheel at speed. Anyways good luck to you and remember, Rally On

Peace out Marvin
Gravel Crew Rally Team USA [/B][/QUOTE]

:lol: Hopefully I won't get sick. :rolleyes: We won't be going that fast anyway...it's just a lowly Golf GTi. :p

-mykr.

Chaste Automotive

11-02-2003 01:55 AM

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Jamie I have to disagree with you on one point and that is that building a legal group N car is too expensive. Though I will agree that there are not very many legal Group N cars out there. Millner's car was legal and Shane Mitchell's was questionable and no matter what the scrutineer said when they called him from Wild West Mark Utecht's car is totally illegal. marvin give me a call I can break it down to you. The bigest problem is that we do not have very many homologated bodyshells. Here is the cheapest scenario:

Group N cage: 1700
Installation:1000
Chassis with drivetrain (JDM): 12000
Suspension (DMS since it is the least $$) 2500
Fuel Cell: 1200
Skid Plates: 1000
Seats: 1000
Harnesses: 300
Shell repair: 1000
Assuming you are not going to Seam Weld and that you already have rally computer, and suits.
Total:$20,700
Seam Welding add another 3000
You can still build an STi for Group N for under 25000. You have to know where to spend the dollars and not get caught up in the little things. I only know this because we are bulding two group n cars right now and they are both going to cost us around 25000 to build. Marvin if you wanted to build a GDB you could buy a banged-up version 8 for 12-15k and then go from there. Seriously drop me a line I will go over it with you, you just have to keep your eyes open for good deals. We just sold 40 gravel rims (speed lines, compomotives, and OZ) for 100 bucks apiece( that is dirt). Karl Scheible sold skid plates and pukka Proflex for 2500 (normall 4500), overseas you can get good deals also. IF you want I will let you take a look at some homologation papers next time you are in LA from Temecula. Good luck.

Chaste Automotive

11-02-2003 01:58 AM

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mykrrrr: Stay hydrated and get some scopolomine discs I know a lot of people use those with some success.

mykrrrr

11-02-2003 11:33 AM

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Thanks for the advice Chaste. :D

Please check your PMs while you're at it.

-mykr.

Subie Gal

11-02-2003 01:40 PM

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i didnt mean to offend anyone...
it was a generalization...

let's restate that to say...
- most Gp N cars are not near legal
- it can most definately be $$$$ to run group N

but rally, in general is expensive....


oh and fwiw?
i've only trailered my WRX to 2 events this entire season...
i even drove it to and from [i]RIM[/i] (1400 miles ea way)
i'm 1/2 mad tho :lol: :huh:

have fun and good luck
Jamie

Chaste Automotive

11-02-2003 04:12 PM

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Jamie, I did not take offense it is just that for some reason a lot of people get led astray on group N because there are a lot of opinions and no real scrutineer in the states to answer simple questions. This is a good Grop N championship beccause there is a pretty substantial contingency and you can use this Group N championship to get entries into some of the international event. I think that PGT is very very close to Group N and most people view that as the easiest way to go.

Aspect: Kevin AKA Gr8wheels is a stand up guy that can get anything. You are right that is a very good route to go. You will need to change the firewall and rack to LHD but you can get a LHD firewall from your dealer.

Mykrrr: responded to your PM let me know if you ever need anything.

AndyRoo

11-02-2003 04:43 PM

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so what exactly is considered expensive? how much do the open class privateer's cars cost?

edit: and jamie, wow, that must have been a fun drive!

Chaste Automotive

11-02-2003 07:50 PM

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Expensive is all relative, you could go rally in our Group 2 car that we have for sale and be competitive at the club level for 5000 and entries at your ifrst rally. you could spend 120k plus like CPD racing and their EVO. You could buy Chad Davies ST185 celica for 14k and have a ball and probably win a few club rallys in Open class. It really depends but racing is not cheap our weekend budget is around 5k and tha just barely gets us through an event. Cheapest way to go is to buy a car tha another person has already built. OUr Group 2 car probably cost us closer to 8-10k to build but weare selling for 6k-5k depending on options.You will usually pay 35-55 cents on the dollar for every odification on a used rally car that is why it is the best way to go. Purchasing cars from Europe can be an even better deal since they are usually not home built as many of the cars here are (not all just plenty). You just have to find the car, check your budget (running a car and owning a car are totally different) then move forward. If anyone wnats help getting a car from Europe I can help with that as well. Good luck and if anyone has any rally questions drop na email or PM always happy to help.

johnfelstead

11-02-2003 07:57 PM

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That drive certainly was fun when we hit WA state at some ungodly hour, cue the blue flashing lights followed by a rather confused state trooper trying to work out what the hell she was looking at when i flashed her my UK driving licence (old style big sheet of paper type), never mind why a rally car was being driven up the highway by a Brit.

First and only time i have been given a warning for speeding on a car defect slip. :D:lol:

Good job they dont arest you for laughing. :lol::o

recce02

11-02-2003 08:16 PM

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Chaste----thank you for the info so far. I really appreciate it. I will be in contact with you as soon as I find out what I want to build next. But it will be sometime before I am ready to build another car. As you know it is not easy to go rallying as a privateer, but I am doing what I can so that I can enjot the best sort I have ever been involved with. Thank you again and rest assure I will be in contact with you.

Peace out Marvin
Gravel Crew Rally Team USA

mykrrrr

11-03-2003 08:43 PM

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This is great discussion on the bestest form of motorsport. :D

John - I would have been better if Jamie's car was RHD so you would have been on the other side when the trooper came up to the LHS of the car. :lol:

I'm just letting my driver have the "honour" of owning the car and I'll just get him lost. :rolleyes: :p

-mykr.