| topshop | 12-05-2005 08:32 PM |
who would like to see CF door inserts made??
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Hey everyone We are thinking about making some new products for the Wrx's. We were thinking about doing CF replacement door inserts. How many people would be interesed in them? And are the 02-06 wrx's door inserts the same inserts? and are they the same as the wagons.
Tony
Tony
| Handsdown | 12-05-2005 09:37 PM |
if they can be made for an overlay that would go over the fabric portion for an easy installation, and would be two things-
inexpensive- 50 bucks for the set
quality parts- not be hanging off the doors but actually look like they belonged
i'm sure you could make a lot of money.
now i know that carbon fiber is expensive, but considering you can get sheets of it for about 25 bucks retail, i'm sure you could find some sort of wholesale deal that would bring the price down.
the reality is, only people with showcars actually want to spend more than $100 on door cards, so don't even bother if you can't do it for less.
inexpensive- 50 bucks for the set
quality parts- not be hanging off the doors but actually look like they belonged
i'm sure you could make a lot of money.
now i know that carbon fiber is expensive, but considering you can get sheets of it for about 25 bucks retail, i'm sure you could find some sort of wholesale deal that would bring the price down.
the reality is, only people with showcars actually want to spend more than $100 on door cards, so don't even bother if you can't do it for less.
| Dreammaster2.5RS | 12-05-2005 10:01 PM |
Well said/\/\/\/\
| BLACK02WAGON | 12-05-2005 10:05 PM |
I disagree entirely. I want a part that is of the highest quality and I don't mind paying a reasonable sum for it. I would prefer a dooe card that replaced all the plastic of the stock and removed the map drawer while keeping the alcantra inserts and arm rests.
| rukkie | 12-05-2005 11:09 PM |
I absolutely disagree with Handsdown. For all these people who spend hundreds of dollars on non-wideband gauges that only serves 1 other purpose that's For Show, a couple hundred bucks wouldn't even be much to spend to dramatically make their cars MUCH hotter. What about those who upgrade from stock seats to STi seats, WRX door inserts to blue inserts, entire interior upgrade, CF style HVAC sets, you think they won't pay for real CF inserts that make it look SO much better?
I for one would seriously consider swaping out my entire subaru cf look hvac set for real CF ones if they're available. You may not be one of those who wouldn't shell out a few bucks for looks, but don't deny the existance of those peeps.
I for one would seriously consider swaping out my entire subaru cf look hvac set for real CF ones if they're available. You may not be one of those who wouldn't shell out a few bucks for looks, but don't deny the existance of those peeps.
| Handsdown | 12-05-2005 11:34 PM |
[QUOTE=Handsdown]only people with showcars actually want to spend more than $100 on door cards, so don't even bother if you can't do it for less.[/QUOTE]
you and i must have different definitions of showcars :lol:
i don't think this guy is offering handlaid dry carbon.
if he is, then yeah maybe some people would pay lots for something that is lighter than stock cards... but i highly doubt this is for anything but looks and if you spend lots of money on the looks of your car, it's for show- [i]show[/i]car.
i'm saying he'll make more money if he can offer a sensible, easy to install insert that sells for less than 100 for all four- that every other ricer with a wrx will want, rather than a high quality piece that only a hanfull of people are going to have the funding and taste for. if the pieces were respected enough to win shows, they might be worth it. but for less than a pound of weight savings, i don't think you'll find too many people that want it for anything more than the bling factor.
you and i must have different definitions of showcars :lol:
i don't think this guy is offering handlaid dry carbon.
if he is, then yeah maybe some people would pay lots for something that is lighter than stock cards... but i highly doubt this is for anything but looks and if you spend lots of money on the looks of your car, it's for show- [i]show[/i]car.
i'm saying he'll make more money if he can offer a sensible, easy to install insert that sells for less than 100 for all four- that every other ricer with a wrx will want, rather than a high quality piece that only a hanfull of people are going to have the funding and taste for. if the pieces were respected enough to win shows, they might be worth it. but for less than a pound of weight savings, i don't think you'll find too many people that want it for anything more than the bling factor.
| offset | 12-06-2005 09:56 AM |
[QUOTE=BLACK02WAGON]I disagree entirely. I want a part that is of the highest quality and I don't mind paying a reasonable sum for it. I would prefer a dooe card that replaced all the plastic of the stock and removed the map drawer while keeping the alcantra inserts and arm rests.[/QUOTE]
What you and rukkie are asking about is a custom setup and not really something anyone could sell in bulk. If that is what you want, it isn't hard to come by (if you really are willing to spend the cash). As for the question posed by Tony, I would say that Handsdown is pretty close; but if they look quality enough I would say people would be willing to spend a little more than $50 (but maybe keep it under $100 still).
offset
What you and rukkie are asking about is a custom setup and not really something anyone could sell in bulk. If that is what you want, it isn't hard to come by (if you really are willing to spend the cash). As for the question posed by Tony, I would say that Handsdown is pretty close; but if they look quality enough I would say people would be willing to spend a little more than $50 (but maybe keep it under $100 still).
offset
| rukkie | 12-06-2005 12:01 PM |
Again I'll have to disagree again... I actually looked into the possibility to produce something that replaces the stock plastic pieces in bulk, and if I do find the right people with the right price I would certainly invest in doing so. If you're talking about headliners, it might be a nitch market almost only for show cars; however, we're only talking about door inserts (which ppl buy STi takeoffs to upgrade), Door sills (some manufacturers make it a stock option, although not CF), shifter console (you see people buying STi shifter trim or shift boot all the time). I don't see why there won't be a demand high enough to drive the price high enough to make it to the average CF parts level and still manage to make a good seller.
From a consumer's point of view, of course I want cheap and quality parts, and of course you'll sell loads of them if you price it low like that... but then again, even a used WRX shifter console plastic piece costs like $50-60 shipped these days, I think u guys are really pricing carbon fiber parts way too low.
From a consumer's point of view, of course I want cheap and quality parts, and of course you'll sell loads of them if you price it low like that... but then again, even a used WRX shifter console plastic piece costs like $50-60 shipped these days, I think u guys are really pricing carbon fiber parts way too low.
| WRX8XB | 12-06-2005 12:22 PM |
I think we need more explanation of exactly this guy is thinking of making.
I would love to get a set of Full Carbon Door Cards that allowed extra Roll Cage clearance and were lighter.
Replace the little plastic pieces around my switches...not my thing.
Which is this guy talking about?
and Handsdown, "Handlaid Dry Carbon" I was unaware that Dry Carbon was Handlaid. I could be way off base though.
I would love to get a set of Full Carbon Door Cards that allowed extra Roll Cage clearance and were lighter.
Replace the little plastic pieces around my switches...not my thing.
Which is this guy talking about?
and Handsdown, "Handlaid Dry Carbon" I was unaware that Dry Carbon was Handlaid. I could be way off base though.
| Handsdown | 12-06-2005 12:25 PM |
i was pretty sure dry refers to the process in which it's hardened.
handlaid just refers to how it's formed. i'm pretty sure that it's two words for seperate parts of the process. i might be wrong though, dry carbon might be formed around something and then heated, i'm not sure. i just know that wet carbon is a little heavier and not as strong. not that strength is an issue for doorcards, just that weight would be if you wanted more than just bling.
handlaid just refers to how it's formed. i'm pretty sure that it's two words for seperate parts of the process. i might be wrong though, dry carbon might be formed around something and then heated, i'm not sure. i just know that wet carbon is a little heavier and not as strong. not that strength is an issue for doorcards, just that weight would be if you wanted more than just bling.
| WRX8XB | 12-06-2005 12:27 PM |
Wet carbon is "Handlaid" in to a mold then coverd with resin.
Dry carbon is "Autoclaved" in to a Mold which apparently allows it to be stronger.
I need to do more research but I like Dry Carbon better :D
Dry carbon is "Autoclaved" in to a Mold which apparently allows it to be stronger.
I need to do more research but I like Dry Carbon better :D
| rukkie | 12-06-2005 12:49 PM |
bump for more info... I wanna learn how CF is made :)
| WRX8XB | 12-06-2005 12:51 PM |
Google it.
or Ask Jeeves.
or Ask Jeeves.
| Kevex | 12-06-2005 12:59 PM |
wet carbon is when you lay the cloth down, and apply resin on it, and they can be dried in ambient pressure and temperature.
dry carbon has resin built into the weaves during manufacturing, and it has to be stored in regrigirator. The process of making dry carbon part is laying the cloth in, and have it baked in a oven with high pressure and temperature.
I think the main difference is weight, since the amount of resin can be dramatically reduced in the dry form.
for 50 bucks a set??? maybe in your dreams......
dry carbon has resin built into the weaves during manufacturing, and it has to be stored in regrigirator. The process of making dry carbon part is laying the cloth in, and have it baked in a oven with high pressure and temperature.
I think the main difference is weight, since the amount of resin can be dramatically reduced in the dry form.
for 50 bucks a set??? maybe in your dreams......
| rukkie | 12-06-2005 01:02 PM |
that's what i'm saying... i'd be happy with $50 a piece
| bigworm | 12-06-2005 01:03 PM |
^ me too
| veightkiller | 12-06-2005 01:06 PM |
50 bucks a piece sounds good to me..show us your prototype 1st and will see how it look's
| shemoves | 12-06-2005 01:11 PM |
[QUOTE=BLACK02WAGON]I disagree entirely. I want a part that is of the highest quality and I don't mind paying a reasonable sum for it. I would prefer a dooe card that replaced all the plastic of the stock and removed the map drawer while keeping the alcantra inserts and arm rests.[/QUOTE]
I like this idea...keeping the color portions of the door. If it were overlays, I would not buy it. Since you'd be making custom door panels, perhaps you could design it with aftermarket audio in mind...perhaps better positioning of the speakers and possibly alleviate some of the 'lack of space' problems.
I like this idea...keeping the color portions of the door. If it were overlays, I would not buy it. Since you'd be making custom door panels, perhaps you could design it with aftermarket audio in mind...perhaps better positioning of the speakers and possibly alleviate some of the 'lack of space' problems.
| WRX8XB | 12-06-2005 01:14 PM |
Or remove the speaker entirely and provide room for roll cage clearance
| todd_fuller | 12-06-2005 01:17 PM |
Dry carbon, wet carbon, all very confusing. There are lots of way to make carbon fiber composites. First, you could make a mould or buck, lay in the fabric, apply a resin and let it cure. That's the cheapest, easiest, least strong and heaviest. It's heavy because there's a lot of resin in there that doesn't need to be there. It's also not very strong because when you lay it up, you can't be 100% sure there are no voids (air pockets or spots where the resin didn't reach).
Second, you can do the above but then vacuum bag it. That is, you put your part in a big bag and pull a vacuum to suck out extra resin and compact the fabric to the mould. This is a very common way to make composites as it's only a little more expensive but creates much better parts both mechanically and cosmetically.
Third, you could use prepreg carbon and an autoclave. So called 'prepreg' is simply the fabric with a resin that cures at higher temperatures than room temp already impregnated into the fabric in the right proportions. These are typically vacuum bagged as well so the fabric is compacted into the mould. This is how many higher quality composites are made. They have good mechanical and cosmetic properties and since they use the least amount of resin needed to do the job, they'll weigh less than a wet layup component. That's not ALWAYS the case since you can do wet layup and get a very good part if you carefully control how much resin ends up in the final part. That's more difficult to do which is why prepreg is so popular.
You could do a pair of door cards for $50 a set easily. However, you'd need to sell an aweful lot of them to amortize the initial startup cost of the equipment as well as the time to create moulds and bucks. Parts cost isn't very high and in all reality, you could probably make it using fiberglass and have similar low weight. Keep in mind, you only rest you arm on it so it can be pretty flimsy. Adding all the other stuff is what adds cost. You want to be able to plug in some inserts, that's going to really up the cost because the mould now is more complicated and as it's used, it gets worn and needs to be discarded earlier otherwise parts don't fit right, etc. The simpler the better!
Second, you can do the above but then vacuum bag it. That is, you put your part in a big bag and pull a vacuum to suck out extra resin and compact the fabric to the mould. This is a very common way to make composites as it's only a little more expensive but creates much better parts both mechanically and cosmetically.
Third, you could use prepreg carbon and an autoclave. So called 'prepreg' is simply the fabric with a resin that cures at higher temperatures than room temp already impregnated into the fabric in the right proportions. These are typically vacuum bagged as well so the fabric is compacted into the mould. This is how many higher quality composites are made. They have good mechanical and cosmetic properties and since they use the least amount of resin needed to do the job, they'll weigh less than a wet layup component. That's not ALWAYS the case since you can do wet layup and get a very good part if you carefully control how much resin ends up in the final part. That's more difficult to do which is why prepreg is so popular.
You could do a pair of door cards for $50 a set easily. However, you'd need to sell an aweful lot of them to amortize the initial startup cost of the equipment as well as the time to create moulds and bucks. Parts cost isn't very high and in all reality, you could probably make it using fiberglass and have similar low weight. Keep in mind, you only rest you arm on it so it can be pretty flimsy. Adding all the other stuff is what adds cost. You want to be able to plug in some inserts, that's going to really up the cost because the mould now is more complicated and as it's used, it gets worn and needs to be discarded earlier otherwise parts don't fit right, etc. The simpler the better!
| KamiKaziBoarder | 12-06-2005 01:18 PM |
I would love it. Carbon Fiber interior replacement pieces would be nice as well.
| AlbaScoob | 12-06-2005 01:28 PM |
this is what I'd like to see in the US
[url]http://www.motordrive.com/acatalog/copy_of_copy_of_Impreza_2001_on_Body_Interior.html[/url]
thats about $1600 a set...
if you can half that price it'd be a bargain!
[url]http://www.motordrive.com/acatalog/copy_of_copy_of_Impreza_2001_on_Body_Interior.html[/url]
thats about $1600 a set...
if you can half that price it'd be a bargain!
| rukkie | 12-06-2005 01:38 PM |
that's kinda extreme.. :)
| azn2yunr | 12-06-2005 01:57 PM |
[QUOTE=AlbaScoob]this is what I'd like to see in the US
[url]http://www.motordrive.com/acatalog/copy_of_copy_of_Impreza_2001_on_Body_Interior.html[/url]
thats about $1600 a set...
if you can half that price it'd be a bargain![/QUOTE]
that is so baddass
[url]http://www.motordrive.com/acatalog/copy_of_copy_of_Impreza_2001_on_Body_Interior.html[/url]
thats about $1600 a set...
if you can half that price it'd be a bargain![/QUOTE]
that is so baddass
| STi-JDM | 12-06-2005 02:04 PM |
CF Rocks... :D
| topshop | 12-06-2005 04:04 PM |
We only do the best part we can offer to people. if it don't look good it will go to the garbage. i don't have prices yet. We are looking for some doner peice right now. If you guys would like to here how great our products are go to the newcelica.org and ask people about our products we have sold over 100 door insert over there. At the shop here we do hand laying and some vaccum injecting molding we the part get bag and resin gets injected into the part to make light weight and stong.
Tony
Tony
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