| shemoves | 07-11-2005 06:41 PM |
Why is Subaru not doing too well in WRC this year?
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Or maybe the better question is why is Citroen doing so well? I don't follow it much, I just looked at the standings on Scoob's global site.
| WRXedUSA | 07-11-2005 06:46 PM |
Michelin is making good rubber nowdays. Some overlooked reliablity problems and tyre choice leading up to the rally have been hampering effects too.
| shemoves | 07-11-2005 06:57 PM |
what tires does sub/citroen use?
| Butt Dyno | 07-11-2005 06:58 PM |
Could it just be that Sebastien is a good driver?
| makofoto | 07-11-2005 07:06 PM |
? and Solberg isn't ?
| Butt Dyno | 07-11-2005 07:11 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]? and Solberg isn't ?[/QUOTE]
Sure he is. But head to head, Solberg has only beaten Loeb once this year (in an event where they both finished) and Solberg has DNF'd three times as opposed to only once for Seb.
[url]http://www.wrc.com/page/DriverStandings/0,,10111~2005,00.html[/url]
Sure he is. But head to head, Solberg has only beaten Loeb once this year (in an event where they both finished) and Solberg has DNF'd three times as opposed to only once for Seb.
[url]http://www.wrc.com/page/DriverStandings/0,,10111~2005,00.html[/url]
| RedBean | 07-11-2005 08:05 PM |
[QUOTE=ButtDyno]Sure he is. But head to head, Solberg has only beaten Loeb once this year (in an event where they both finished) and Solberg has DNF'd three times as opposed to only once for Seb.
[url="http://www.wrc.com/page/DriverStandings/0,,10111~2005,00.html"]http://www.wrc.com/page/DriverStandings/0,,10111~2005,00.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Not to mention that in 2003 Seb was still challenging Petter till the end and had Citroen let Seb challenge Petter at Rally GB, Petter might not have won the Driver's Championship that year. Whereas Seb sealed the championship last year with several rallies left in the season and it looks like he will do the same again this year. Seb's driving combined with the Xsara's reliability makes for a difficult combo to beat.
I guess it's good news for Subaru that Citroen and Peugot are leaving at the end of the season. It will most likely give Subaru a big advantage in the Driver's Championship since Seb and Marcus will probably take some time to get adjusted to whichever team they go to. The Manufacturer's Championship will probably be taken by Ford, judging by past performance.
[url="http://www.wrc.com/page/DriverStandings/0,,10111~2005,00.html"]http://www.wrc.com/page/DriverStandings/0,,10111~2005,00.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Not to mention that in 2003 Seb was still challenging Petter till the end and had Citroen let Seb challenge Petter at Rally GB, Petter might not have won the Driver's Championship that year. Whereas Seb sealed the championship last year with several rallies left in the season and it looks like he will do the same again this year. Seb's driving combined with the Xsara's reliability makes for a difficult combo to beat.
I guess it's good news for Subaru that Citroen and Peugot are leaving at the end of the season. It will most likely give Subaru a big advantage in the Driver's Championship since Seb and Marcus will probably take some time to get adjusted to whichever team they go to. The Manufacturer's Championship will probably be taken by Ford, judging by past performance.
| RB5 Clone | 07-11-2005 08:09 PM |
[QUOTE=shemoves]Or maybe the better question is why is Citroen doing so well? [/QUOTE]
Petter is not having a Subaru problem, it's a Loeb problem
Loeb would be leading WRC even if he was driving a school bus.
Petter is super good, Loeb just a bit more consistent. Their cars are essentially equal over course of 16 rallies in highly varied conditions.
Dave G
Petter is not having a Subaru problem, it's a Loeb problem
Loeb would be leading WRC even if he was driving a school bus.
Petter is super good, Loeb just a bit more consistent. Their cars are essentially equal over course of 16 rallies in highly varied conditions.
Dave G
| Chaste Automotive | 07-12-2005 05:55 AM |
Sebastien can smoke petter on tarmac and they are now nearly even on gravel so that is problem one. IF subaru used Michelins the season would be very different at this point. Just like PEtter benefitted from a year with Tommi I think tha Seb benefitted a lot from having Carlos for two years. Carlos is also know for being a testing maniac the guy goes through tons of setups. That combined with some poor luck and that somes up the year.
| silver04rs | 07-12-2005 06:42 AM |
[QUOTE=Chaste Automotive]Sebastien can smoke petter on tarmac and they are now nearly even on gravel so that is problem one. IF subaru used Michelins the season would be very different at this point. Just like PEtter benefitted from a year with Tommi I think tha Seb benefitted a lot from having Carlos for two years. Carlos is also know for being a testing maniac the guy goes through tons of setups. That combined with some poor luck and that somes up the year.[/QUOTE]
nicley put :)
i cant wait till next year when Seb Loeb needs a ride and Subaru signs him, then it will be a driver test since they will both be in the same set up
(i didnt read this anywhere, just thought it up)
nicley put :)
i cant wait till next year when Seb Loeb needs a ride and Subaru signs him, then it will be a driver test since they will both be in the same set up
(i didnt read this anywhere, just thought it up)
| WRXedUSA | 07-12-2005 09:32 AM |
[QUOTE=Chaste Automotive]Sebastien can smoke petter on tarmac and they are now nearly even on gravel so that is problem one. IF subaru used Michelins the season would be very different at this point. Just like PEtter benefitted from a year with Tommi I think tha Seb benefitted a lot from having Carlos for two years. Carlos is also know for being a testing maniac the guy goes through tons of setups. That combined with some poor luck and that somes up the year.[/QUOTE]
Carlos was a victim of active differentials and the move away from traditional rally driving. He admitted this himself. If Seb benifitted from anything, it was Carlos' patience and guidance.
Carlos was a victim of active differentials and the move away from traditional rally driving. He admitted this himself. If Seb benifitted from anything, it was Carlos' patience and guidance.
| forced4 | 07-12-2005 02:30 PM |
Petter hit the wall at Monte Carlo and has had poor tire choices on several rallies. Loeb is just damn good and has a dependable car.
Atkinson and Sarrazin crash too much.
Atkinson and Sarrazin crash too much.
| artkevin | 07-12-2005 03:00 PM |
[QUOTE=forced4]Petter hit the wall at Monte Carlo and has had poor tire choices on several rallies. Loeb is just damn good and has a dependable car.
Atkinson and Sarrazin crash too much.[/QUOTE]
+1
Petter is proving to be one of the best drivers in the world. Too bad THE best in WRC is on form right now. Petter seems to be the only one that can even keep Loeb honest right now.
Atkinson and Sarrazin crash too much.[/QUOTE]
+1
Petter is proving to be one of the best drivers in the world. Too bad THE best in WRC is on form right now. Petter seems to be the only one that can even keep Loeb honest right now.
| FaastLegacy | 07-12-2005 04:35 PM |
[QUOTE=Chaste Automotive]Sebastien can smoke petter on tarmac and they are now nearly even on gravel so that is problem one. IF subaru used Michelins the season would be very different at this point. Just like PEtter benefitted from a year with Tommi I think tha Seb benefitted a lot from having Carlos for two years. Carlos is also know for being a testing maniac the guy goes through tons of setups. That combined with some poor luck and that somes up the year.[/QUOTE]
IMHO, I don't the tires would make that much of a difference. It's too easy to blame it on the tires. Loeb has finished every rally, and Petter hasn't, that's hard to blame solely on the Pirellis.
[quote]i cant wait till next year when Seb Loeb needs a ride and Subaru signs him, then it will be a driver test since they will both be in the same set up[/quote]
I don't think SWRT/Prodrive has the money for two thoroughbreds, unless Loeb wants to take a huge pay cut, which I doubt. I could definitely see Loeb at Mitsubishi next year. Or Ford for that matter.
IMHO, I don't the tires would make that much of a difference. It's too easy to blame it on the tires. Loeb has finished every rally, and Petter hasn't, that's hard to blame solely on the Pirellis.
[quote]i cant wait till next year when Seb Loeb needs a ride and Subaru signs him, then it will be a driver test since they will both be in the same set up[/quote]
I don't think SWRT/Prodrive has the money for two thoroughbreds, unless Loeb wants to take a huge pay cut, which I doubt. I could definitely see Loeb at Mitsubishi next year. Or Ford for that matter.
| shemoves | 07-12-2005 04:46 PM |
Mitsu would need something like that (signing Loeb) after what happened.
| Student Driver | 07-12-2005 05:35 PM |
Petter reminds me of Tiger Woods. When he's on, he is smoking, but when he's off it's a huge failure. Much like Tiger, Petter is known for aggressive come-back runs. But, if you didn't screw up to begin with (like Loeb), then there wouldn't need to be a come-back attempt.
The other issue can just be luck. Look at Loeb in Mexico, where he not only got a fresh engine (large fine, but no time penalty) but had a wheel come off. Now, in most countries when a cop sees you driving down the road, with someone hanging out a window so you roll on the three remaining wheels you will be told to tow it home. However, Loeb gets a police escort back to service and eventually makes it to 4th place and 5 driver's points.
The other issue can just be luck. Look at Loeb in Mexico, where he not only got a fresh engine (large fine, but no time penalty) but had a wheel come off. Now, in most countries when a cop sees you driving down the road, with someone hanging out a window so you roll on the three remaining wheels you will be told to tow it home. However, Loeb gets a police escort back to service and eventually makes it to 4th place and 5 driver's points.
| WRXinWhite | 07-12-2005 11:28 PM |
This is just helping Petter to find another excuse.
I believe he is more like Colin, either on or completely off, there is nothing in between. Fun to watch; unfortunately Loeb does not seem to be affected by any adversities; he handles them almost emotionless and cruises to another win, sort of like MS did in another formula...
I believe he is more like Colin, either on or completely off, there is nothing in between. Fun to watch; unfortunately Loeb does not seem to be affected by any adversities; he handles them almost emotionless and cruises to another win, sort of like MS did in another formula...
| Chaste Automotive | 07-13-2005 03:18 AM |
Faastlegacy if you do not think that tires make that much of a difference then look at how Sarazin did in a subaru on michelins last year, look at stage times between him and Petter and you will see how much the tires can change. Frankly a lot of Sarazins pace was flattered by michelin tires.
| KLeigh | 07-13-2005 03:38 AM |
Next year should be interesting depending on where Loeb goes. It would be entertaining, but unlikely he would wind up at Subaru...
Last I heard he was considering contesting as a Privateer for a year since Citroen may be back in after a year off. No idea if that's still looking likely or not, but I think the handicap it would put on him would be fun to watch. We might actually see a privateer entry compete for the championship.
I am curious if you seperated him from the Citroens how he would fare since he hasn't really driven anything else.
Petter is suffering at least in part from bad strategy I think. He held back at the beginning of the season thinking he could beat Seb with consistency (I don't know who told him that would work, but they should be smacked around). Now he seems kind of at a loss to get it together... though admittedly he is somewhat known for having a bad first half of the season. Hard to tell what the rest of the year will hold but my money stays on Seb.
Last I heard he was considering contesting as a Privateer for a year since Citroen may be back in after a year off. No idea if that's still looking likely or not, but I think the handicap it would put on him would be fun to watch. We might actually see a privateer entry compete for the championship.
I am curious if you seperated him from the Citroens how he would fare since he hasn't really driven anything else.
Petter is suffering at least in part from bad strategy I think. He held back at the beginning of the season thinking he could beat Seb with consistency (I don't know who told him that would work, but they should be smacked around). Now he seems kind of at a loss to get it together... though admittedly he is somewhat known for having a bad first half of the season. Hard to tell what the rest of the year will hold but my money stays on Seb.
| MattNJ2.8 | 07-13-2005 08:09 AM |
Loeb should sign with Skoda.
He might be enough to make them competitive. Gronholm is also talking with Ford for a ride for next year ([url]www.wrc.com[/url]).
I would love to see another half dozen manufacturers compete. Having so few is boring :rolleyes:
How about whoever else markets AWD systems (or just sporty cars) and has a truly international presence? : Audi/VW/SEAT, Toyota, Honda, Fiat, Mazda(Ford), Mercedes, BMW..etc..bring 'em all to a big party.
He might be enough to make them competitive. Gronholm is also talking with Ford for a ride for next year ([url]www.wrc.com[/url]).
I would love to see another half dozen manufacturers compete. Having so few is boring :rolleyes:
How about whoever else markets AWD systems (or just sporty cars) and has a truly international presence? : Audi/VW/SEAT, Toyota, Honda, Fiat, Mazda(Ford), Mercedes, BMW..etc..bring 'em all to a big party.
| FaastLegacy | 07-13-2005 09:30 AM |
[QUOTE=Chaste Automotive]Faastlegacy if you do not think that tires make that much of a difference then look at how Sarazin did in a subaru on michelins last year, look at stage times between him and Petter and you will see how much the tires can change. Frankly a lot of Sarazins pace was flattered by michelin tires.[/QUOTE]
Well, there could be any number of reasons why Sarrazin is not performing as he did last year. To say the tires determine the championship is fallacious IMO. As I said previously, it's consistency. Loeb is consistent, Petter as others have pointed out, is not. Petter is either on top or he's out. Loeb may not win every race(though he has lately) but he's always in the top three.
Tires do make a difference, but I don't believe they have the significance you're suggesting. But again, that's all my opinion.
Well, there could be any number of reasons why Sarrazin is not performing as he did last year. To say the tires determine the championship is fallacious IMO. As I said previously, it's consistency. Loeb is consistent, Petter as others have pointed out, is not. Petter is either on top or he's out. Loeb may not win every race(though he has lately) but he's always in the top three.
Tires do make a difference, but I don't believe they have the significance you're suggesting. But again, that's all my opinion.
| DGoReck | 07-15-2005 12:39 PM |
Tire choice, and brand can mean a lot. Why does Speed then have little segemnts time to time about the differences between the Pirellis and the Michelins? Look at F1 and Bruidgestone/Michelin. You cannot tell me that the tire company does not make a difference.
As for consistancy. Consistancy does not make you a star rally driver. You need to be at it 120% all the time. You need to be going at it like crazy, pulling the fastest stage times possible if you want to make it. Why? The team can make you more consistant. Its easier for them to do that, then to get them to make you push yourself to and over the limit in a car.
Both Leob and Solberg are fairly young still. They are still developing, I think there will be great competion between the two. They are getting faster and faster with each season.
As for consistancy. Consistancy does not make you a star rally driver. You need to be at it 120% all the time. You need to be going at it like crazy, pulling the fastest stage times possible if you want to make it. Why? The team can make you more consistant. Its easier for them to do that, then to get them to make you push yourself to and over the limit in a car.
Both Leob and Solberg are fairly young still. They are still developing, I think there will be great competion between the two. They are getting faster and faster with each season.
| Styley1 | 07-15-2005 02:25 PM |
[QUOTE=DGoReck]Tire choice, and brand can mean a lot. Why does Speed then have little segemnts time to time about the differences between the Pirellis and the Michelins? Look at F1 and Bruidgestone/Michelin. You cannot tell me that the tire company does not make a difference.
As for consistancy. Consistancy does not make you a star rally driver. You need to be at it 120% all the time. You need to be going at it like crazy, pulling the fastest stage times possible if you want to make it. Why? The team can make you more consistant. Its easier for them to do that, then to get them to make you push yourself to and over the limit in a car.
Both Leob and Solberg are fairly young still. They are still developing, I think there will be great competion between the two. They are getting faster and faster with each season.[/QUOTE]
I agree with your tire and youth comments spot on. As for your consistency comments: you are right about the 120% at all times... but isn't running well at 120% at all times = consistency? What we are talking about here is running at best speed with the best line and avoiding as much damage to the car as possible. To me, that's consistency. Vs. ripping the rear trunk off your car during the morning stages on the first day. I suppose you could call it luck... I call it consistency.
As for consistancy. Consistancy does not make you a star rally driver. You need to be at it 120% all the time. You need to be going at it like crazy, pulling the fastest stage times possible if you want to make it. Why? The team can make you more consistant. Its easier for them to do that, then to get them to make you push yourself to and over the limit in a car.
Both Leob and Solberg are fairly young still. They are still developing, I think there will be great competion between the two. They are getting faster and faster with each season.[/QUOTE]
I agree with your tire and youth comments spot on. As for your consistency comments: you are right about the 120% at all times... but isn't running well at 120% at all times = consistency? What we are talking about here is running at best speed with the best line and avoiding as much damage to the car as possible. To me, that's consistency. Vs. ripping the rear trunk off your car during the morning stages on the first day. I suppose you could call it luck... I call it consistency.
| dbottles | 07-15-2005 03:16 PM |
I have gotten a huge lesson in tires over the last 12 months in my rally car. When I changed to Michilen tires from brand x I was instantly 3 seconds a mile faster.
Besides tire brand, getting the right compound and tread makes a massive differance. I recently used a too soft compound tire - good to start but lost about 30 seconds after the tire went off proir to the next service.
The more I learn and the faster I drive the more I see the importance of tires.
Derek
Besides tire brand, getting the right compound and tread makes a massive differance. I recently used a too soft compound tire - good to start but lost about 30 seconds after the tire went off proir to the next service.
The more I learn and the faster I drive the more I see the importance of tires.
Derek
| XT6Wagon | 07-15-2005 04:16 PM |
honestly the worse the surface the more the tire becomes important. So rally its very important unless the roads are very good.
When you start talking about pure track events even tires get less meaningful as the conditions improve. Basicly there is more room for drivers to get agressive on hardcompounds or less agressive on soft compounds and make it work. Get a horrible abrasive surface and well even driving like a pansy won't save soft compound tires.
When you start talking about pure track events even tires get less meaningful as the conditions improve. Basicly there is more room for drivers to get agressive on hardcompounds or less agressive on soft compounds and make it work. Get a horrible abrasive surface and well even driving like a pansy won't save soft compound tires.
| FaastLegacy | 07-16-2005 02:07 AM |
[QUOTE=DGoReck] You cannot tell me that the tire company does not make a difference.
[/QUOTE]
[quote=myself]Tires do make a difference, but I don't believe they have the significance you're suggesting.[/quote]
With all due respect, saying Loeb is winning the championship this year solely because he's running Michelins instead of Pirellis is ignorant.
[quote]As for consistancy. Consistancy does not make you a star rally driver. You need to be at it 120% all the time. You need to be going at it like crazy, pulling the fastest stage times possible if you want to make it. Why? The team can make you more consistant. Its easier for them to do that, then to get them to make you push yourself to and over the limit in a car.[/quote]
I'm going to respectfully disagree again. Loeb's style is pretty much the exact opposite of what you're saying. Loeb is clean, he is consistent, not always the quickest but always in the top three on stage times. Loeb wins because he doesn't get overexcited like Petter does. When was the last time Loeb dropped out because of a wreck or a mechanical(hint:it was last season). That is consistency my friend. Consistency wins you championships. Running balls to the wall at 120% and tearing your car up half the time doesn't win you championships.
[/QUOTE]
[quote=myself]Tires do make a difference, but I don't believe they have the significance you're suggesting.[/quote]
With all due respect, saying Loeb is winning the championship this year solely because he's running Michelins instead of Pirellis is ignorant.
[quote]As for consistancy. Consistancy does not make you a star rally driver. You need to be at it 120% all the time. You need to be going at it like crazy, pulling the fastest stage times possible if you want to make it. Why? The team can make you more consistant. Its easier for them to do that, then to get them to make you push yourself to and over the limit in a car.[/quote]
I'm going to respectfully disagree again. Loeb's style is pretty much the exact opposite of what you're saying. Loeb is clean, he is consistent, not always the quickest but always in the top three on stage times. Loeb wins because he doesn't get overexcited like Petter does. When was the last time Loeb dropped out because of a wreck or a mechanical(hint:it was last season). That is consistency my friend. Consistency wins you championships. Running balls to the wall at 120% and tearing your car up half the time doesn't win you championships.
| datageek | 07-16-2005 09:54 AM |
[QUOTE=FaastLegacy]With all due respect, saying Loeb is winning the championship this year solely because he's running Michelins instead of Pirellis is ignorant. [/QUOTE]
Yes, Loeb is winning the champsionship because he's an amazingly fast, precise driver. But so are Solberg and Gronholm. At the end of the day, if you get drivers in equal (or near) skill level, the one with the better equipment will always win. Right now, it's obvious that Loeb has the better equipment. Tires are part of that package. Hence, all the talk about tires.
Yes, Loeb is winning the champsionship because he's an amazingly fast, precise driver. But so are Solberg and Gronholm. At the end of the day, if you get drivers in equal (or near) skill level, the one with the better equipment will always win. Right now, it's obvious that Loeb has the better equipment. Tires are part of that package. Hence, all the talk about tires.
| artkevin | 07-16-2005 12:08 PM |
[QUOTE=datageek]Yes, Loeb is winning the champsionship because he's an amazingly fast, precise driver. But so are Solberg and Gronholm. At the end of the day, if you get drivers in equal (or near) skill level, the one with the better equipment will always win. Right now, it's obvious that Loeb has the better equipment. Tires are part of that package. Hence, all the talk about tires.[/QUOTE]
Petter and Marcus are both amazingly fast drivers but have not been consitent for a while now. Marcus a lot more then Petter. As someone said, when was the last time Loeb wrote off the car? Marucs does what seems like every other rally and Petter has broken his equipment a little too much for my likeing.
Part of the problem is that Loeb gets out to a good lead with in the 1st few stages and people end up having to push too hard to keep pace. Its got to be hard for Petter becuase he knows if he pushes just a little harder he can claw back some time but the risk goes up a lot too with a lettle extra push. I htink Petter is the only other driver that can keep pace right now.
Petter and Marcus are both amazingly fast drivers but have not been consitent for a while now. Marcus a lot more then Petter. As someone said, when was the last time Loeb wrote off the car? Marucs does what seems like every other rally and Petter has broken his equipment a little too much for my likeing.
Part of the problem is that Loeb gets out to a good lead with in the 1st few stages and people end up having to push too hard to keep pace. Its got to be hard for Petter becuase he knows if he pushes just a little harder he can claw back some time but the risk goes up a lot too with a lettle extra push. I htink Petter is the only other driver that can keep pace right now.
| amorton | 07-16-2005 02:02 PM |
Petter is a faster driver than Loeb, when Petter is on and running hard, NO one can come close. With that said the risk involved with Petter running that hard is high, and often results in a retirement from the rallye. I am sure tires play into the equation, but with better tires Petter would just push that much harder always on the edge. I think the result would be the same. Therefore I elect myself to fly out and kneecap Loeb!
| Predwolf | 07-16-2005 02:40 PM |
The only way I can really think of it is this:
Petter and Loeb are both amazing drivers, both with VERY high skill levels. Loeb seems to be more consistant, because he's never worrying about, or losing time due to his tires. Petter, on the other hand, will have his tires disentagrate on one stage, and lose maybe 5 seconds, then he'll push himself to make up that 5 seconds on the next stage, asking more of his tires, and probably sending him into that rock, tree or bridge..
Given the same car, and same tires, at the start of a rally, I wouldn't put money on either, It would be a VERY close race.
Petter and Loeb are both amazing drivers, both with VERY high skill levels. Loeb seems to be more consistant, because he's never worrying about, or losing time due to his tires. Petter, on the other hand, will have his tires disentagrate on one stage, and lose maybe 5 seconds, then he'll push himself to make up that 5 seconds on the next stage, asking more of his tires, and probably sending him into that rock, tree or bridge..
Given the same car, and same tires, at the start of a rally, I wouldn't put money on either, It would be a VERY close race.
| snoboardr4life | 07-17-2005 02:47 AM |
[QUOTE=MattNJ2.8]Loeb should sign with Skoda.
He might be enough to make them competitive. Gronholm is also talking with Ford for a ride for next year ([url]www.wrc.com[/url]).
I would love to see another half dozen manufacturers compete. Having so few is boring :rolleyes:
How about whoever else markets AWD systems (or just sporty cars) and has a truly international presence? : Audi/VW/SEAT, Toyota, Honda, Fiat, Mazda(Ford), Mercedes, BMW..etc..bring 'em all to a big party.[/QUOTE]
Skoda is VW. I would love to see VW put an r32 into the wrc of couse the motor would have to be changed, BUT thats what audi is for :banana: 2.0t from the new a4 :banana: Also audi making a comeback and toyota would be the ****
He might be enough to make them competitive. Gronholm is also talking with Ford for a ride for next year ([url]www.wrc.com[/url]).
I would love to see another half dozen manufacturers compete. Having so few is boring :rolleyes:
How about whoever else markets AWD systems (or just sporty cars) and has a truly international presence? : Audi/VW/SEAT, Toyota, Honda, Fiat, Mazda(Ford), Mercedes, BMW..etc..bring 'em all to a big party.[/QUOTE]
Skoda is VW. I would love to see VW put an r32 into the wrc of couse the motor would have to be changed, BUT thats what audi is for :banana: 2.0t from the new a4 :banana: Also audi making a comeback and toyota would be the ****
| bigcale | 07-17-2005 03:16 AM |
I read somewhere that toyota is thinking about getting back in the wrc and suzuki has been considering that as well
| HomerJay | 07-17-2005 12:39 PM |
Petter is a very fast driver, but Loeb is also very fast and doesn't make as many mistakes as well as his car not having as many mechanical problems. Also the Michelin gravel tires are much improved this year and Pirelli's tarmac tires stink.
| KAX | 07-17-2005 11:46 PM |
[QUOTE=FaastLegacy]With all due respect, saying Loeb is winning the championship this year solely because he's running Michelins instead of Pirellis is ignorant. [/QUOTE]
Subaru is in the same position Ferrari is in in F1. They are a great team, but by themselves on tires, or the only team that can compete (peugeot cant really compete very well in the pirellis as they dont know them very well, and the car sucks to begin with).
That being said, Pirelli doesnt have as much in the way in testing as michelin does, and they make a much better tire (especially with the restrictions on tires now). If you ever read the articles on WRC.com, youll see both pirelli and subaru know the biggest problem with the championship this year is the tires. Pirelli has been doing everything they can to give subaru a good tire (much like bridgestone is for ferrari), but it just hasnt been working out so far. And like someone else said, Loeb gets out front early, and petter is the only one who can keep up, however, marcus is doing better when his car works, and must work at his hardest.
Saying tires has little to do with subarus problems is ignorant
Subaru is in the same position Ferrari is in in F1. They are a great team, but by themselves on tires, or the only team that can compete (peugeot cant really compete very well in the pirellis as they dont know them very well, and the car sucks to begin with).
That being said, Pirelli doesnt have as much in the way in testing as michelin does, and they make a much better tire (especially with the restrictions on tires now). If you ever read the articles on WRC.com, youll see both pirelli and subaru know the biggest problem with the championship this year is the tires. Pirelli has been doing everything they can to give subaru a good tire (much like bridgestone is for ferrari), but it just hasnt been working out so far. And like someone else said, Loeb gets out front early, and petter is the only one who can keep up, however, marcus is doing better when his car works, and must work at his hardest.
Saying tires has little to do with subarus problems is ignorant
| SgWRX | 07-18-2005 12:31 AM |
it hasn't helped that petter slows to 1st gear everytime there's water - just watched the argentina rally.
| MtnGoat | 07-18-2005 12:33 AM |
A big factor is the Nationality of the drivers themselves, or at least where they have most of their exp.
Both Solberg and Gronholm, being Scandinavians, are gravel specialists where Loeb, French, is more of an tarmac specialst, though with more exp. over the past 2 years he is turning out to be one of the greatest overall drivers of all time in the sport of rally. Citroen has a very detrermined and hard working team this year and in the past they would only show up for tarmac events and dominate taking driver points away from the others who would compete the whole season.
As for tire issues, Pirelli has always had an advantage on gravel/mud and probs on tarmac. But they are always looking to improve. Other WRC teams have switched to Pirelli this year. More teams are rolling on Pirelli than they have in the past few years. They did show a comparison between Mich and Pirelli on one stage in Argentina and Solberg w/pirelli dominated off the start of the stage under wet muddy conditions on a harder compound than Loeb.
As for Solberg as a driver,... I think he has done very well so far though a few mistakes early on at the start of each rally has made him suffer. Losing his back end and loss of downforce made him lose a podium finish last rally and now with the rally of Argentina Subaru had issues with entry into the water splashes and he is a bit leary of entry into the splashes after last year when two Subaru's took in water forcing water into the engines with a result of retirement for Solberg. Though Subaru says they have resolved the issue, Solberg is still slower on entry. He did manage to take fastest time on El Condor stage.
I still am holding out for Subaru, But Loeb and Citroen just seems unstoppable. :(
Both Solberg and Gronholm, being Scandinavians, are gravel specialists where Loeb, French, is more of an tarmac specialst, though with more exp. over the past 2 years he is turning out to be one of the greatest overall drivers of all time in the sport of rally. Citroen has a very detrermined and hard working team this year and in the past they would only show up for tarmac events and dominate taking driver points away from the others who would compete the whole season.
As for tire issues, Pirelli has always had an advantage on gravel/mud and probs on tarmac. But they are always looking to improve. Other WRC teams have switched to Pirelli this year. More teams are rolling on Pirelli than they have in the past few years. They did show a comparison between Mich and Pirelli on one stage in Argentina and Solberg w/pirelli dominated off the start of the stage under wet muddy conditions on a harder compound than Loeb.
As for Solberg as a driver,... I think he has done very well so far though a few mistakes early on at the start of each rally has made him suffer. Losing his back end and loss of downforce made him lose a podium finish last rally and now with the rally of Argentina Subaru had issues with entry into the water splashes and he is a bit leary of entry into the splashes after last year when two Subaru's took in water forcing water into the engines with a result of retirement for Solberg. Though Subaru says they have resolved the issue, Solberg is still slower on entry. He did manage to take fastest time on El Condor stage.
I still am holding out for Subaru, But Loeb and Citroen just seems unstoppable. :(
| DirtDevil | 07-18-2005 10:31 AM |
Tires are what you ride on! they are the most important part of any car. With out tires you dont ride. until new tech comes out. put them all on the wheels no rubber and lets see how good any of them are!
| Styley1 | 07-18-2005 12:55 PM |
[QUOTE=SgWRX]it hasn't helped that petter slows to 1st gear everytime there's water - just watched the argentina rally.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure part of that is because of the water issues that Subaru had last year with the Argentina rally. Supposedly they fixed the front facia to prevent the same destruction and water injestion that happened last year... but perhaps Petter doesn't feel comfortable with that answer.
I'm sure part of that is because of the water issues that Subaru had last year with the Argentina rally. Supposedly they fixed the front facia to prevent the same destruction and water injestion that happened last year... but perhaps Petter doesn't feel comfortable with that answer.
| CirrusWRX | 07-18-2005 01:16 PM |
Caution:
[IMG]http://www.abulsme.com/trip/2003q3/p20030831210409.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.abulsme.com/trip/2003q3/p20030831210409.jpg[/IMG]
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