| ptclaus98 | 05-01-2007 04:02 PM |
Atta baby, Kovi! Stickin' to it!
| bitterWRX | 05-02-2007 02:26 AM |
[QUOTE] Ferrari debut new sidepods in Spain
Written by Administrator
Tuesday, 01 May 2007
May 1 (GMM) The media on Monday fixated on McLaren's visually obvious new front wing, but arguably the biggest change to a formula one car at the Barcelona test emerged from the Ferrari garage. The Italian sports daily La Gazzetta dello Sport said the updated sidepods of the F2007 steered by Kimi Raikkonen was a "more significant" update than the bridge-like element on the McLaren wing. It is understood that the reshaped and smaller sidepods veil part of a novel cooling system that engineers at Maranello have been working on for several months. At the wheel of the updated car on Monday, 27-year-old Raikkonen collected not only the quickest time, but also the five next-best laps of the day. Test driver Luca Badoer had shaken down the heavily revised F2007, also featuring new front and rear wings and an updated diffuser, at the Vairano circuit last Wednesday and Thursday. La Gazzetta dello Sport cited a Ferrari source as confirming that the new package had "worked well".[/QUOTE]
Anyone got pics of this? This sounds interesting.
Written by Administrator
Tuesday, 01 May 2007
May 1 (GMM) The media on Monday fixated on McLaren's visually obvious new front wing, but arguably the biggest change to a formula one car at the Barcelona test emerged from the Ferrari garage. The Italian sports daily La Gazzetta dello Sport said the updated sidepods of the F2007 steered by Kimi Raikkonen was a "more significant" update than the bridge-like element on the McLaren wing. It is understood that the reshaped and smaller sidepods veil part of a novel cooling system that engineers at Maranello have been working on for several months. At the wheel of the updated car on Monday, 27-year-old Raikkonen collected not only the quickest time, but also the five next-best laps of the day. Test driver Luca Badoer had shaken down the heavily revised F2007, also featuring new front and rear wings and an updated diffuser, at the Vairano circuit last Wednesday and Thursday. La Gazzetta dello Sport cited a Ferrari source as confirming that the new package had "worked well".[/QUOTE]
Anyone got pics of this? This sounds interesting.
| artkevin | 05-02-2007 09:57 AM |
[QUOTE=bitterWRX;17929821]Anyone got pics of this? This sounds interesting.[/QUOTE]
The airbox is a lot more different then the sidepods IMHO.
[IMG]http://www.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2007/tests86/diapo_187.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2007/tests88/diapo_191.jpg[/IMG]
The airbox is a lot more different then the sidepods IMHO.
[IMG]http://www.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2007/tests86/diapo_187.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2007/tests88/diapo_191.jpg[/IMG]
| RALLYT-WRX | 05-02-2007 11:06 AM |
[QUOTE=artkevin;17931634]The airbox is a lot more different then the sidepods IMHO.
[IMG]http://www.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2007/tests86/diapo_187.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2007/tests88/diapo_191.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Interesting. Makes it look kind of like a shark's dorsal fin. :cool:
I'd be curious to see what a head-on shot looks like.
[IMG]http://www.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2007/tests86/diapo_187.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2007/tests88/diapo_191.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Interesting. Makes it look kind of like a shark's dorsal fin. :cool:
I'd be curious to see what a head-on shot looks like.
| RALLYT-WRX | 05-02-2007 11:08 AM |
Nico has an off.... Williams goes back to the "Garage"
�
�
It has been a tough few days of testing so far for the Williams Toyota team at Circuit de Catalunya in Spain. On Monday test driver and Toyota prot�g� Kazuki Nakajima went off in the afternoon session damaging the sole FW29 available.
This morning Nico Rosberg suffered a heavy shunt in the repaired chassis which may well end the day for the team.
While Rosberg was seemingly unharmed the right front of the Williams took a heavy impact and the team will now be working flat out to get the car back on track either later today or for Thursday�s final day of testing ahead of the Spanish Grand Prix.
The FW29 also suffered rear, right rear and frontal damage from the impact. Additional pictures are also available in page nine of our Barcelona test image gallery.
Earl ALEXANDER
� CAPSIS International
________________________________________________________________
Williams Toyota has abandoned the remainder of the Barcelona test after Nico Rosberg destroyed the sole FW29 chassis on Wednesday.
Most teams will continue running at the Catalan circuit also on Thursday, after the session was hit with bad weather on Tuesday, but Rosberg's shunt made morsels out of the Grove based team's revised bodywork package.
Scarce spare parts had already been flown out to Spain following test driver Kazuki Nakajima's crash on Monday at turn nine.
Rosberg's sizeable impact was at turn ten, and while he emerged unscathed, the car was badly damaged at the front and the right side, and the rear wing was also knocked off.
It is understood that the cause of the accident was driver error after the German got too high on the kerbs, and photographs show team personnel and marshals at the scene collecting broken pieces of the Toyota-powered single seater after it spun through 180-degrees and connected with the tyre barrier.
Source GMM
CAPSIS International
This morning Nico Rosberg suffered a heavy shunt in the repaired chassis which may well end the day for the team.
While Rosberg was seemingly unharmed the right front of the Williams took a heavy impact and the team will now be working flat out to get the car back on track either later today or for Thursday�s final day of testing ahead of the Spanish Grand Prix.
The FW29 also suffered rear, right rear and frontal damage from the impact. Additional pictures are also available in page nine of our Barcelona test image gallery.
Earl ALEXANDER
� CAPSIS International
________________________________________________________________
Williams Toyota has abandoned the remainder of the Barcelona test after Nico Rosberg destroyed the sole FW29 chassis on Wednesday.
Most teams will continue running at the Catalan circuit also on Thursday, after the session was hit with bad weather on Tuesday, but Rosberg's shunt made morsels out of the Grove based team's revised bodywork package.
Scarce spare parts had already been flown out to Spain following test driver Kazuki Nakajima's crash on Monday at turn nine.
Rosberg's sizeable impact was at turn ten, and while he emerged unscathed, the car was badly damaged at the front and the right side, and the rear wing was also knocked off.
It is understood that the cause of the accident was driver error after the German got too high on the kerbs, and photographs show team personnel and marshals at the scene collecting broken pieces of the Toyota-powered single seater after it spun through 180-degrees and connected with the tyre barrier.
Source GMM
CAPSIS International
| Ferg | 05-02-2007 11:12 AM |
[QUOTE=artkevin;17931634]The airbox is a lot more different then the sidepods IMHO.[IMG]http://www.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2007/tests86/diapo_187.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]
Very McLaren-esque don't you think?
[/QUOTE]
Very McLaren-esque don't you think?
| Ferg | 05-02-2007 12:15 PM |
Barcelona, Day Three...
[QUOTE][B]Massa keeps Ferrari on top in Barcelona
[/B]
By Pablo Elizalde Wednesday, May 2nd 2007, 16:10 GMT
The Ferrari team continued to show their strong form by topping the times for the third consecutive day in testing at the Barcelona circuit.
While Kimi Raikkonen was quickest on the first two days, his teammate Felipe Massa replaced him both behind the wheel of the F2007 and on top of the times after another good session for the Italian squad.
Massa, who covered over 100 laps as Ferrari continued to work on new aerodynamic components, was three tenths of a second quicker than Red Bull's Mark Webber, second quickest in the RB3.
Jarno Trulli was third fastest for Toyota, with Renault's Heikki Kovalainen in fourth after a massive 121 laps with the R27 car.
World champion Fernando Alonso, who on Tuesday completed just one lap to the disappointment of his fans, had a more productive session, working with McLaren's new, three-plane front wing, tested on track for the first time on Monday.
Alonso posted the fifth quickest time after 73 laps.
Williams were forced to call an end to their test a day early after Nico Rosberg wrecked his car in a high-speed crash early in the morning. The German driver was unhurt but was taken to hospital as a precaution.
"Nico went off on his first run and had a crash that resulted in heavy chassis damage," said technical director Sam Michael after the crash. "Nico's fine, however the damage cannot be repaired at the circuit so the test team is now returning to the factory."
The Spyker team also finished their day early after Christijan Albers was hit by mechanical problems in the afternoon. Like Williams, the Dutch squad will not be testing tomorrow.
"We started out quite well this morning. We were working on some race set ups and I was quite happy as we improved the car's handling," said Albers. "I did a lot of laps and I tried to push really hard before trying some new tyres in the afternoon, but then unfortunately we had a failure.
"It's a shame as it took our afternoon away, but I think we can be pleased with today - overall it was a good day's work."
The session took place under clear skies, although a heavy wind in the afternoon complicated matters for the drivers.
Today's times:
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:21.506 103
2. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:21.804 95
3. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:22.309 107
4. Kovalainen Renault (B) 1:22.378 121
5. Alonso McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:22.579 73
6. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) 1:22.653 83
7. Button Honda (B) 1:22.765 114
8. Davidson Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:23.027 112
9. Speed Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:23.713 96
10. Albers Spyker-Ferrari (B) 1:24.870 63
11. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) no time 2
All Timing Unofficial[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][B]Massa keeps Ferrari on top in Barcelona
[/B]
By Pablo Elizalde Wednesday, May 2nd 2007, 16:10 GMT
The Ferrari team continued to show their strong form by topping the times for the third consecutive day in testing at the Barcelona circuit.
While Kimi Raikkonen was quickest on the first two days, his teammate Felipe Massa replaced him both behind the wheel of the F2007 and on top of the times after another good session for the Italian squad.
Massa, who covered over 100 laps as Ferrari continued to work on new aerodynamic components, was three tenths of a second quicker than Red Bull's Mark Webber, second quickest in the RB3.
Jarno Trulli was third fastest for Toyota, with Renault's Heikki Kovalainen in fourth after a massive 121 laps with the R27 car.
World champion Fernando Alonso, who on Tuesday completed just one lap to the disappointment of his fans, had a more productive session, working with McLaren's new, three-plane front wing, tested on track for the first time on Monday.
Alonso posted the fifth quickest time after 73 laps.
Williams were forced to call an end to their test a day early after Nico Rosberg wrecked his car in a high-speed crash early in the morning. The German driver was unhurt but was taken to hospital as a precaution.
"Nico went off on his first run and had a crash that resulted in heavy chassis damage," said technical director Sam Michael after the crash. "Nico's fine, however the damage cannot be repaired at the circuit so the test team is now returning to the factory."
The Spyker team also finished their day early after Christijan Albers was hit by mechanical problems in the afternoon. Like Williams, the Dutch squad will not be testing tomorrow.
"We started out quite well this morning. We were working on some race set ups and I was quite happy as we improved the car's handling," said Albers. "I did a lot of laps and I tried to push really hard before trying some new tyres in the afternoon, but then unfortunately we had a failure.
"It's a shame as it took our afternoon away, but I think we can be pleased with today - overall it was a good day's work."
The session took place under clear skies, although a heavy wind in the afternoon complicated matters for the drivers.
Today's times:
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:21.506 103
2. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:21.804 95
3. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:22.309 107
4. Kovalainen Renault (B) 1:22.378 121
5. Alonso McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:22.579 73
6. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) 1:22.653 83
7. Button Honda (B) 1:22.765 114
8. Davidson Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:23.027 112
9. Speed Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:23.713 96
10. Albers Spyker-Ferrari (B) 1:24.870 63
11. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) no time 2
All Timing Unofficial[/QUOTE]
| artkevin | 05-02-2007 12:31 PM |
[QUOTE=RALLYT-WRX;17932578]Interesting. Makes it look kind of like a shark's dorsal fin. :cool:
I'd be curious to see what a head-on shot looks like.[/QUOTE]
The new airbox makes the whole car look stubby.
[IMG]http://www.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2007/tests86/diapo_117.jpg[/IMG]
Reminds me of the BMW too
[IMG]http://images.gpupdate.net/large/71232.jpg[/IMG]
I'd be curious to see what a head-on shot looks like.[/QUOTE]
The new airbox makes the whole car look stubby.
[IMG]http://www.f1-live.com/f1/photos/2007/tests86/diapo_117.jpg[/IMG]
Reminds me of the BMW too
[IMG]http://images.gpupdate.net/large/71232.jpg[/IMG]
| StuBeck | 05-02-2007 12:44 PM |
The airbox is awkwardly large, but I wonder why more don't take this approach.
Looks like Red Bull may finally be up there if the new gearbox can stick together. It makes sense that they would be slower if everyone else is running seamless and they aren't.
Looks like Red Bull may finally be up there if the new gearbox can stick together. It makes sense that they would be slower if everyone else is running seamless and they aren't.
| wvallwheeldrive | 05-02-2007 12:54 PM |
Is it just me or does the front wing look differant also?
| artkevin | 05-02-2007 01:14 PM |
I think a lot of teams don't use the larger airbox box because of cross winds. Seems like you'd want the smallest profile you could get. The rules require at least a certain amount visable for sponsor space.
The front wing is different. Much deeper dips in it.
The front wing is different. Much deeper dips in it.
| StuBeck | 05-02-2007 01:34 PM |
They seem to almost have gone for what McLaren is running too for the front wing.
| Ferg | 05-02-2007 09:05 PM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck;17934107]Looks like Red Bull may finally be up there if the new gearbox can stick together. It makes sense that they would be slower if everyone else is running seamless and they aren't.[/QUOTE]
I would expect such an aero heavy car like the RB3 to do well at Barcelona, a track that rewards well balanced aerodynamics.
I hope they can keep the momentum for the 13th :D
I would expect such an aero heavy car like the RB3 to do well at Barcelona, a track that rewards well balanced aerodynamics.
I hope they can keep the momentum for the 13th :D
| RALLYT-WRX | 05-03-2007 10:09 AM |
No New Wing for Mclaren?
�
�
McLaren is unlikely to fit its unique 'bridge' front wing design at the Spanish Grand Prix next week.
The Woking based team publicly debuted the innovation at the pre-race test at Circuit de Catalunya on Monday, and on Wednesday World Champion Fernando Alonso got his first taste of the unique bodywork.
But the Spanish newspaper Diario As reports that Alonso did not offer promising feedback after using the wing - now painted red after originally appearing in carbon-fibre black - on the Barcelona layout.
"The extravagant and revolutionary front innovation did not work as the team had expected," the report added.
Alonso was fifth quickest in the MP4-22 on Wednesday; a full second off the pace of the dominant Ferrari steered by Felipe Massa.
Pedro de la Rosa will conclude McLaren's test today.
E.A.
Source GMM
The Woking based team publicly debuted the innovation at the pre-race test at Circuit de Catalunya on Monday, and on Wednesday World Champion Fernando Alonso got his first taste of the unique bodywork.
But the Spanish newspaper Diario As reports that Alonso did not offer promising feedback after using the wing - now painted red after originally appearing in carbon-fibre black - on the Barcelona layout.
"The extravagant and revolutionary front innovation did not work as the team had expected," the report added.
Alonso was fifth quickest in the MP4-22 on Wednesday; a full second off the pace of the dominant Ferrari steered by Felipe Massa.
Pedro de la Rosa will conclude McLaren's test today.
E.A.
Source GMM
| Androoos | 05-03-2007 11:21 AM |
When I first saw the RB3 after its unveiling, I thought it would be competitive with Newey behind it, of course. Well...they still have a ways to go, but I'm pleased. I bet we'll see RBR competitive before we see Toyota competitive. Spain will be an interesting race...one of my favorite tracks.
| tdm74 | 05-03-2007 11:22 AM |
Honda F1 introduces elephant ears
[url]http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/05/03/honda_f1_introduces_elephant_ears/[/url]
[IMG]http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/tdm74/73173.jpg[/IMG]
:huh:
[url]http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/05/03/honda_f1_introduces_elephant_ears/[/url]
[IMG]http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/tdm74/73173.jpg[/IMG]
:huh:
| Ferg | 05-03-2007 11:28 AM |
Oh my...
| Androoos | 05-03-2007 11:29 AM |
Honda really will try anything won't they. I am not sure they should be referring to any part of their car as "Elephant-whatever" judging by their performance to this point this season. An elephant may be able to outrun them the way they've started off. Jens needs to get out of there ASAP.
| RALLYT-WRX | 05-03-2007 11:31 AM |
[QUOTE=tdm74;17946839]Honda F1 introduces elephant ears
[url]http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/05/03/honda_f1_introduces_elephant_ears/[/url]
[IMG]http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/tdm74/73173.jpg[/IMG]
:huh:[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/RALLYT-WRX/tremors2.jpg[/IMG]
:huh:
[url]http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/05/03/honda_f1_introduces_elephant_ears/[/url]
[IMG]http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/tdm74/73173.jpg[/IMG]
:huh:[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/RALLYT-WRX/tremors2.jpg[/IMG]
:huh:
| Ferg | 05-03-2007 11:33 AM |
DC tops the times, Barcelona, Day Four.
[QUOTE]Coulthard fastest at rain-hit Barcelona
By Jonathan Noble Thursday, May 3rd 2007, 15:21 GMT
David Coulthard made the most of a low-fuel qualifying simulation run to set a new record fastest time on a rain-hit final day of testing at Barcelona on Thursday.
With teammate Mark Webber having shown similar swift speed on Wednesday, Coulthard's morning effort indicated that Red Bull Racing are likely to step up in form from what they have shown so far this year when the season resumes at the Spanish track next week.
Even though Coulthard's run was a qualifying simulation, rival teams estimate that a fuel corrected time would put the team close to BMW Sauber's race pace and lift them ahead of the tight midfield pack that they have been locked in so far this campaign.
Coulthard's place at the top of the timesheets, with a time that was a new record for the reconfigured Barcelona track, was sealed when the rain that has dogged this week's test returned just after lunchtime.
That meant Coulthard ended the day two tenths of a second ahead of McLaren's Pedro de la Rosa, whose best lap also came on a single lap run.
Despite stopping on track at 11:30am with a software problem, the Spaniard continued the team's evaluation of their new front wing, which they are considering introducing for the Spanish Grand Prix alongside other developments.
Felipe Massa was unable to seal Ferrari's complete domination of the test with the third fastest time, and his morning was blighted by an hydraulic pump failure at 9:30am.
Renault continued working on developments and overcoming the problems that have marred their start to the season as Giancarlo Fisichella set the fifth quickest time. The Italian had a spin in the wet in the afternoon, causing the third red flag of the day.
[B]Seventh quickest Christian Klien caused a few raised eyebrows in the morning when he tried out extra nose wings, nicknamed 'Dumbo Wings', on his Honda Racing RA107.
The extra devices did not prove a success, however, with team sources suggesting that the idea was scrapped when it became clear very quickly it did not provide any benefit to the problems the team are suffering.[/B]
The bad weather, and the fact that teams are limited on testing mileage over the course of the year, meant everybody packed up one hour early.
Today's times:
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:21.066 59
2. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:21.267 58
3. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:21.483 38
4. Fisichella Renault (B) 1:21.876 63
5. Kubica BMW-Sauber (B) 1:22.098 55
6. R.Schumacher Toyota (B) 1:22.359 49
7. Klien Honda (B) 1:22.807 80
All Timing Unofficial[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Coulthard fastest at rain-hit Barcelona
By Jonathan Noble Thursday, May 3rd 2007, 15:21 GMT
David Coulthard made the most of a low-fuel qualifying simulation run to set a new record fastest time on a rain-hit final day of testing at Barcelona on Thursday.
With teammate Mark Webber having shown similar swift speed on Wednesday, Coulthard's morning effort indicated that Red Bull Racing are likely to step up in form from what they have shown so far this year when the season resumes at the Spanish track next week.
Even though Coulthard's run was a qualifying simulation, rival teams estimate that a fuel corrected time would put the team close to BMW Sauber's race pace and lift them ahead of the tight midfield pack that they have been locked in so far this campaign.
Coulthard's place at the top of the timesheets, with a time that was a new record for the reconfigured Barcelona track, was sealed when the rain that has dogged this week's test returned just after lunchtime.
That meant Coulthard ended the day two tenths of a second ahead of McLaren's Pedro de la Rosa, whose best lap also came on a single lap run.
Despite stopping on track at 11:30am with a software problem, the Spaniard continued the team's evaluation of their new front wing, which they are considering introducing for the Spanish Grand Prix alongside other developments.
Felipe Massa was unable to seal Ferrari's complete domination of the test with the third fastest time, and his morning was blighted by an hydraulic pump failure at 9:30am.
Renault continued working on developments and overcoming the problems that have marred their start to the season as Giancarlo Fisichella set the fifth quickest time. The Italian had a spin in the wet in the afternoon, causing the third red flag of the day.
[B]Seventh quickest Christian Klien caused a few raised eyebrows in the morning when he tried out extra nose wings, nicknamed 'Dumbo Wings', on his Honda Racing RA107.
The extra devices did not prove a success, however, with team sources suggesting that the idea was scrapped when it became clear very quickly it did not provide any benefit to the problems the team are suffering.[/B]
The bad weather, and the fact that teams are limited on testing mileage over the course of the year, meant everybody packed up one hour early.
Today's times:
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:21.066 59
2. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:21.267 58
3. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:21.483 38
4. Fisichella Renault (B) 1:21.876 63
5. Kubica BMW-Sauber (B) 1:22.098 55
6. R.Schumacher Toyota (B) 1:22.359 49
7. Klien Honda (B) 1:22.807 80
All Timing Unofficial[/QUOTE]
| tdm74 | 05-03-2007 11:35 AM |
I am kinda glad they did not work to well on the Honda, just because they are hideous. I would have hated to see all the other teams putting these atrocities on the nose of all the cars.
| StuBeck | 05-03-2007 11:56 AM |
They would have been banned if it worked, the FIA is against things like that which look ugly.
I don't care if it was rain, but Coulthard being fastest is awesome.
I don't care if it was rain, but Coulthard being fastest is awesome.
| wvallwheeldrive | 05-03-2007 12:11 PM |
We all know the RB3 is a fast car. IT has been quick at all the races so far but DC driving and some mechanical troubles have kept them from finishing well.
| Ferg | 05-03-2007 12:12 PM |
Aside from the aborted attempt to mate with Wurz's FW29 in Australia I think DC has been driving very well...his qualifying on the other hand. Ugh.
| StuBeck | 05-03-2007 12:26 PM |
Yeah, they need to figure out qualifying, and Webber needs to figure out the race. I think if you combined the drivers they would make an awesome driver.
| artkevin | 05-03-2007 12:29 PM |
[QUOTE=tdm74;17946839]Honda F1 introduces elephant ears
[url]http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/05/03/honda_f1_introduces_elephant_ears/[/url]
[IMG]http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/tdm74/73173.jpg[/IMG]
:huh:[/QUOTE]
Holly hell thats hideous.
Did they have to add land mass to the globe to use those crap fins?
[url]http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/05/03/honda_f1_introduces_elephant_ears/[/url]
[IMG]http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/tdm74/73173.jpg[/IMG]
:huh:[/QUOTE]
Holly hell thats hideous.
Did they have to add land mass to the globe to use those crap fins?
| Wr4wrX | 05-03-2007 12:58 PM |
Dumbo Ears
�
�
This may be terribly cynical of me, but the McLaren bridge wing and the Honda Dumbo ears have got me thinking. Does anybody think some teams might run radical aerodynamic parts just to get a little publicity? I wouldn't expect that kind of move from a top team. However, I could see reason for a backmarker to attach missile launchers on the sidepods or some such nonsense just to get a little press. It'd be an awful waste of precious testing time, but if your team is going nowhere fast, why not run something wacky for half a day?
| artkevin | 05-03-2007 01:08 PM |
Not really th case because it's Monaco but here is an example of crazy
[IMG]http://www.grandprix.com/jpeg/phc/pmon01/verstappen2-lg.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.grandprix.com/jpeg/phc/pmon01/verstappen2-lg.jpg[/IMG]
| tdm74 | 05-03-2007 01:42 PM |
[QUOTE=artkevin;17948192]Not really th case because it's Monaco but here is an example of crazy
[IMG]http://www.grandprix.com/jpeg/phc/pmon01/verstappen2-lg.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I remember that, Jos the BOSS!!!!
[IMG]http://www.grandprix.com/jpeg/phc/pmon01/verstappen2-lg.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I remember that, Jos the BOSS!!!!
| StuBeck | 05-03-2007 03:16 PM |
[QUOTE=Wr4wrX;17948048]This may be terribly cynical of me, but the McLaren bridge wing and the Honda Dumbo ears have got me thinking. Does anybody think some teams might run radical aerodynamic parts just to get a little publicity? I wouldn't expect that kind of move from a top team. However, I could see reason for a backmarker to attach missile launchers on the sidepods or some such nonsense just to get a little press. It'd be an awful waste of precious testing time, but if your team is going nowhere fast, why not run something wacky for half a day?[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't go past the teams to do it. But they would have to have some sponsors. No one is really getting anything from Honda being wacky.
[QUOTE=artkevin;17948192]Not really th case because it's Monaco but here is an example of crazy
[IMG]http://www.grandprix.com/jpeg/phc/pmon01/verstappen2-lg.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
The thing is, that actually worked, they had it crash tested, but then the FIA said no to it. Jordan tried something somewhat similar too. That is what I liked about Arrows, they tried a ton of stuff with their cars. Too bad Walkinsha made some ridiculous statements to his sponsors.
I wouldn't go past the teams to do it. But they would have to have some sponsors. No one is really getting anything from Honda being wacky.
[QUOTE=artkevin;17948192]Not really th case because it's Monaco but here is an example of crazy
[IMG]http://www.grandprix.com/jpeg/phc/pmon01/verstappen2-lg.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
The thing is, that actually worked, they had it crash tested, but then the FIA said no to it. Jordan tried something somewhat similar too. That is what I liked about Arrows, they tried a ton of stuff with their cars. Too bad Walkinsha made some ridiculous statements to his sponsors.
| Indocti Discant | 05-03-2007 03:57 PM |
[quote=StuBeck;17949902]
The thing is, that actually worked, they had it crash tested, but then the FIA said no to it. [/quote]
impaired visibility. oh and it look wicked ugly.
The thing is, that actually worked, they had it crash tested, but then the FIA said no to it. [/quote]
impaired visibility. oh and it look wicked ugly.
| artkevin | 05-03-2007 04:05 PM |
The Jordan with T wing
[IMG]http://www.grandprix.com/jpeg/phc/pmon01/trulli2-lg.jpg[/IMG]
Wing Cwazy
[IMG]http://www.schlegelmilch.com/images/0028/97mc-b085-1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.grandprix.com/jpeg/phc/pmon01/trulli2-lg.jpg[/IMG]
Wing Cwazy
[IMG]http://www.schlegelmilch.com/images/0028/97mc-b085-1.jpg[/IMG]
| nKoan | 05-03-2007 04:10 PM |
Don't forget BMW-Sauber's nose thingies from last year.
Banned after one race for being ugly (or a visibility hazard or something IIRC)
[img]http://www.neurosybir.net/nkoan/images/bmw_nose.jpg[/img]
Banned after one race for being ugly (or a visibility hazard or something IIRC)
[img]http://www.neurosybir.net/nkoan/images/bmw_nose.jpg[/img]
| StuBeck | 05-03-2007 04:27 PM |
[QUOTE=owace;17950468]impaired visibility. oh and it look wicked ugly.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it hurt visibility at all. The mirrors hurt visibility more.
Ferrari copied the Tyrell wings, although it was banned after a few races.
I don't think it hurt visibility at all. The mirrors hurt visibility more.
Ferrari copied the Tyrell wings, although it was banned after a few races.
| sirfrankwilliams | 05-03-2007 04:37 PM |
[B][SIZE=3]Hooray for all the goofy wing pict4rs![/SIZE][/B] :lol:
It is interesting to see all the creativity that goes into aerodynamics.
It is interesting to see all the creativity that goes into aerodynamics.
| Ferg | 05-03-2007 09:03 PM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck;17947663]Yeah, they need to figure out qualifying, and Webber needs to figure out the race. I think if you combined the drivers they would make an awesome driver.[/QUOTE]
I think Newey would have a nervous breakdown trying to work out the aero impact of their combined chins..
I think Newey would have a nervous breakdown trying to work out the aero impact of their combined chins..
| Ferg | 05-03-2007 10:57 PM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck;17949902]No one is really getting anything from Honda being wacky.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about you but I'm getting plenty out of it. Thanks Honda! :lol:
I don't know about you but I'm getting plenty out of it. Thanks Honda! :lol:
| StuBeck | 05-04-2007 12:00 AM |
[QUOTE=Ferg;17953754]I think Newey would have a nervous breakdown trying to work out the aero impact of their combined chins..[/QUOTE]
Why do you think he made Webber change his helmet? :p
[QUOTE=Ferg;17954950]I don't know about you but I'm getting plenty out of it. Thanks Honda! :lol:[/QUOTE]
Haha, touche.
Why do you think he made Webber change his helmet? :p
[QUOTE=Ferg;17954950]I don't know about you but I'm getting plenty out of it. Thanks Honda! :lol:[/QUOTE]
Haha, touche.
| StuBeck | 05-07-2007 03:06 PM |
[quote]Toro Rosso switch to paint for aero gains
By Jonathan Noble Monday, May 7th 2007, 15:05 GMT
Tonio Liuzzi in the Bahrain Grand Prix, his STR2 carrying stickersScuderia Toro Rosso have changed the way they paint their car's livery in a bid to improve its aerodynamic efficiency.
The Italian-based outfit had undertaken a detailed review at ways to improve their STR2, and they hope the fine-tuning programme will add extra speed alongside more traditional developments.
One of the key changes implemented is that the team will no longer use stickers on the bodywork - especially with the design of the large red bull on the engine cover.
Instead, the team will now paint the car - a move that chief engineer Laurent Mekies believes has both aerodynamic and weight benefits.
"We have worked hard on the quality of the surface of our aero parts to get more performance out of them and to this end, we have now removed all the stickers from the bodywork and replaced them with paint," said Mekies.
"This not only makes for a smoother, less resistant surface, it also brings with it a weight saving benefit. From an aesthetic point of view, the car also looks much nicer."
Alongside aerodynamic updates, which include a new rear wing and sidepod wings for this weekend, Mekies says that much effort has been made to improve quality control at the team.
"As everyone knows, we really had to rush simply to get parts ready for the first three races, and the price we paid for rushing was that the quality level was not up to the standard we wanted," he explained.
"Now, we have worked on the aero quality of the parts, which involves ensuring that there is a better fit between all the bodywork components. There are a large number of bodywork components and the quality of the fit between them can have a significant effect on their aero efficiency.
"We believe this pursuit of efficiency is just as important as getting something like new barge boards or wing endplates. We are paying attention to detail and going for a quality product, optimising what we have.
"This is an ongoing task in an area where you are constantly striving to improve. The result of our efforts is that we should be in better shape for Barcelona than we were at the first three races."
[/quote]
Wonder how long Honda will use the same excuse :lol:
[url]http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58607[/url]
By Jonathan Noble Monday, May 7th 2007, 15:05 GMT
Tonio Liuzzi in the Bahrain Grand Prix, his STR2 carrying stickersScuderia Toro Rosso have changed the way they paint their car's livery in a bid to improve its aerodynamic efficiency.
The Italian-based outfit had undertaken a detailed review at ways to improve their STR2, and they hope the fine-tuning programme will add extra speed alongside more traditional developments.
One of the key changes implemented is that the team will no longer use stickers on the bodywork - especially with the design of the large red bull on the engine cover.
Instead, the team will now paint the car - a move that chief engineer Laurent Mekies believes has both aerodynamic and weight benefits.
"We have worked hard on the quality of the surface of our aero parts to get more performance out of them and to this end, we have now removed all the stickers from the bodywork and replaced them with paint," said Mekies.
"This not only makes for a smoother, less resistant surface, it also brings with it a weight saving benefit. From an aesthetic point of view, the car also looks much nicer."
Alongside aerodynamic updates, which include a new rear wing and sidepod wings for this weekend, Mekies says that much effort has been made to improve quality control at the team.
"As everyone knows, we really had to rush simply to get parts ready for the first three races, and the price we paid for rushing was that the quality level was not up to the standard we wanted," he explained.
"Now, we have worked on the aero quality of the parts, which involves ensuring that there is a better fit between all the bodywork components. There are a large number of bodywork components and the quality of the fit between them can have a significant effect on their aero efficiency.
"We believe this pursuit of efficiency is just as important as getting something like new barge boards or wing endplates. We are paying attention to detail and going for a quality product, optimising what we have.
"This is an ongoing task in an area where you are constantly striving to improve. The result of our efforts is that we should be in better shape for Barcelona than we were at the first three races."
[/quote]
Wonder how long Honda will use the same excuse :lol:
[url]http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58607[/url]
| wvallwheeldrive | 05-07-2007 09:24 PM |
i know nascar teams paint thier cars for the restrictor plate race tracks because the decals edge causes turbulace above 180 mph don't know how much it helps but straight line speed hasn't been the teams problem, lack of good drivers are.
| StuBeck | 05-07-2007 11:25 PM |
Liuzzi won the championship in F3000, and Speed finished in third, so I don't think its just the drivers which are keeping them back.
| wvallwheeldrive | 05-08-2007 12:08 AM |
everyone that follows F1 knows F3000, GP2, or any other F1 feeder series is not a clear indacation of how they will run in F1. I love that there is an American in F1 but he could have used more time in a lower series before being moved up.
| artkevin | 05-08-2007 01:10 AM |
While I don't think Vit or Scott will win the WDC any time soon they are not the week link in the chain. I have a lot of respect for both of them. Vit probably has more out right speed but he has made more unforced errors.
When you are in a mid-to-back of the field team you need hard charging mistake free drives. Vit delivered that in Indy 2006 and Scott kinda did in Aussie in the same year. They are worth what they are getting paid IMHO.
When you are in a mid-to-back of the field team you need hard charging mistake free drives. Vit delivered that in Indy 2006 and Scott kinda did in Aussie in the same year. They are worth what they are getting paid IMHO.
| Ferg | 05-08-2007 10:29 AM |
Paffett in line for Prodrive um...drive.
[QUOTE]Paffett confident on chances with Prodrive
By Jonathan Noble and Glenn Freeman Tuesday, May 8th 2007, 10:58 GMT
Gary Paffett is confident that he is on course to make the step up to Formula One next season providing that Prodrive boss David Richards is successful in getting his hands on a customer McLaren deal.
Fresh from his victory in the second round of the DTM at Oschersleben last weekend, Paffett believes the next four weeks will be crucial in deciding whether he can finally move up to Grand Prix racing.
"It's difficult to say, but I'd like to say I'm quite confident," Paffett told autosport.com about his chances of stepping up to F1 in 2008.
"The situation with David Richards and McLaren seems to be getting closer, and if that happens and they become effectively a B-team for McLaren, then I would say I've got a very good chance of racing.
"If that doesn't happen then there's still a chance, but that seems to be the direction it's going in. McLaren and Mercedes want more cars with their engines.
"The team will be looking for three drivers, and out of the drivers from Mercedes, I'm one of the more experienced in F1, so I think I've got a pretty good chance. On that side it's looking better all the time. "
Richards hopes to announce his team, driver and sponsorship plans at July's British Grand Prix, and that clearly means Paffett will get an idea of his future plans in the not too distant future.
"I think the next month will be very important, regarding which direction Richards goes in. From now, hopefully it will get sorted out quite quickly. They need to sort it really, and I think it will come together soon."
Paffett, who has returned to the DTM this season after capturing the 2005 crown, believes his success in other categories and experience of F1 testing for McLaren increase his chances of landing the Prodrive seat.
"Hopefully, because of what I've done with McLaren, if it does go with them (Prodrive) then hopefully a decision will be made without needing to put me in the car," he said.
"You don't want to go and have a shootout, you just want it to happen. I've done a lot of work with McLaren over the last couple of years, and they know what I can do in a car.
"I know David Richards very well anyway, I have done for a long time, so he's got a good idea of what I can do anyway. With guidance from McLaren, hopefully they will realise that I can do a good job."
Paffett has also interestingly played down the prospect of Prodrive taking both himself and fellow McLaren tester Pedro de la Rosa.
"It's difficult to know whether they will just take McLaren or Mercedes drivers. There are three seats there, and you've got to think that at McLaren there are four drivers It is doubtful that they will want their two test drivers to go to another team essentially."
De la Rosa told Spanish newspaper AS today that he was not aware of any speculation linking him with a Prodrive race seat.
"I won't talk about that, I know nothing about those rumours," he said.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Paffett confident on chances with Prodrive
By Jonathan Noble and Glenn Freeman Tuesday, May 8th 2007, 10:58 GMT
Gary Paffett is confident that he is on course to make the step up to Formula One next season providing that Prodrive boss David Richards is successful in getting his hands on a customer McLaren deal.
Fresh from his victory in the second round of the DTM at Oschersleben last weekend, Paffett believes the next four weeks will be crucial in deciding whether he can finally move up to Grand Prix racing.
"It's difficult to say, but I'd like to say I'm quite confident," Paffett told autosport.com about his chances of stepping up to F1 in 2008.
"The situation with David Richards and McLaren seems to be getting closer, and if that happens and they become effectively a B-team for McLaren, then I would say I've got a very good chance of racing.
"If that doesn't happen then there's still a chance, but that seems to be the direction it's going in. McLaren and Mercedes want more cars with their engines.
"The team will be looking for three drivers, and out of the drivers from Mercedes, I'm one of the more experienced in F1, so I think I've got a pretty good chance. On that side it's looking better all the time. "
Richards hopes to announce his team, driver and sponsorship plans at July's British Grand Prix, and that clearly means Paffett will get an idea of his future plans in the not too distant future.
"I think the next month will be very important, regarding which direction Richards goes in. From now, hopefully it will get sorted out quite quickly. They need to sort it really, and I think it will come together soon."
Paffett, who has returned to the DTM this season after capturing the 2005 crown, believes his success in other categories and experience of F1 testing for McLaren increase his chances of landing the Prodrive seat.
"Hopefully, because of what I've done with McLaren, if it does go with them (Prodrive) then hopefully a decision will be made without needing to put me in the car," he said.
"You don't want to go and have a shootout, you just want it to happen. I've done a lot of work with McLaren over the last couple of years, and they know what I can do in a car.
"I know David Richards very well anyway, I have done for a long time, so he's got a good idea of what I can do anyway. With guidance from McLaren, hopefully they will realise that I can do a good job."
Paffett has also interestingly played down the prospect of Prodrive taking both himself and fellow McLaren tester Pedro de la Rosa.
"It's difficult to know whether they will just take McLaren or Mercedes drivers. There are three seats there, and you've got to think that at McLaren there are four drivers It is doubtful that they will want their two test drivers to go to another team essentially."
De la Rosa told Spanish newspaper AS today that he was not aware of any speculation linking him with a Prodrive race seat.
"I won't talk about that, I know nothing about those rumours," he said.[/QUOTE]
| StuBeck | 05-08-2007 10:32 AM |
[QUOTE=wvallwheeldrive;17994576]everyone that follows F1 knows F3000, GP2, or any other F1 feeder series is not a clear indacation of how they will run in F1. I love that there is an American in F1 but he could have used more time in a lower series before being moved up.[/QUOTE]
How so? Its rare to see a driver who sucked in those series do well in F1. Most drivers who do well in the feeder series though tend to do fine in F1. That is why Kimi wasn't given a full license in 01, because he hadn't run through the feeder series.
If you win the F3k or GP2 championship, its not an immediate indication of being an F1 champ, but Hamilton has been doing pretty well this year.
How so? Its rare to see a driver who sucked in those series do well in F1. Most drivers who do well in the feeder series though tend to do fine in F1. That is why Kimi wasn't given a full license in 01, because he hadn't run through the feeder series.
If you win the F3k or GP2 championship, its not an immediate indication of being an F1 champ, but Hamilton has been doing pretty well this year.
| Jonathan | 05-08-2007 10:59 PM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck;17997859]How so? Its rare to see a driver who sucked in those series do well in F1. [b]Most drivers who do well in the feeder series though tend to do fine in F1.[/b] That is why Kimi wasn't given a full license in 01, because he hadn't run through the feeder series.
If you win the F3k or GP2 championship, its not an immediate indication of being an F1 champ, but Hamilton has been doing pretty well this year.[/QUOTE]
Ron Dennis has worked closely with Lewis Hamilton ever since his early karting days. Because of this, it has always been a question of when, not if, Ron would be bringing Lewis into Formula One. Having done well in a lessor "feeder" series is not much of an indication of how well one will perform in Formula One. Having a loyal sponsour, and a top team taking an interest in you are perhaps far more important factors then your previous performance(s).
Frank Williams' interest in Jenson Button gave the young driver an opportunity to perform well (which he certainly did, at first, some 5-6 years ago), However his years wasted with Benneton / Renault and later the Dave Richards managed BAR team havent been especially succesfull, and while he finally was lucky enough to win his first race last year, it is doubtfull at this point that he will ever be regarded as one of the "top-tier" drivers.
While there are many good drivers, who if given a good car can perform very well (Kimi, Montoya, Jenson and even Jacques Villenueve), there are fairly few drivers who can make a bad car look good. Senna was awesome in his early days with the Toleman-Hart and Lotus-Renault & Honda, as was Schumacher in the Benneton-Ford and even Fernado gave an acceptable performance while driving for Minardi.
Kimi and Lewis and even to some extent Jenson Button were spotted early and are still expected to eventually prove their capabilities, although at this point time is certainly running out on Jenson...
Nelson Piquet, in spite of having achieved the World Driving Champion title three times in Formula One, is now thought of as perhaps being more "Lucky" than as being an especially good driver largely because when he replaced Ayrton at Lotus he was so bloody awefull.
Having the support of a top-tier team, and good chemistry between yourself as a driver, and the important team managers and engineers are very big factors in making yourself a success in Formula One. What ever you have done in the past is still only in the past and means nothing in Formula One.
[quote=StuBeck;17997859]Most drivers who do well in the feeder series though tend to do fine in F1.[/quote] I do not agree with that statement at all.
If you win the F3k or GP2 championship, its not an immediate indication of being an F1 champ, but Hamilton has been doing pretty well this year.[/QUOTE]
Ron Dennis has worked closely with Lewis Hamilton ever since his early karting days. Because of this, it has always been a question of when, not if, Ron would be bringing Lewis into Formula One. Having done well in a lessor "feeder" series is not much of an indication of how well one will perform in Formula One. Having a loyal sponsour, and a top team taking an interest in you are perhaps far more important factors then your previous performance(s).
Frank Williams' interest in Jenson Button gave the young driver an opportunity to perform well (which he certainly did, at first, some 5-6 years ago), However his years wasted with Benneton / Renault and later the Dave Richards managed BAR team havent been especially succesfull, and while he finally was lucky enough to win his first race last year, it is doubtfull at this point that he will ever be regarded as one of the "top-tier" drivers.
While there are many good drivers, who if given a good car can perform very well (Kimi, Montoya, Jenson and even Jacques Villenueve), there are fairly few drivers who can make a bad car look good. Senna was awesome in his early days with the Toleman-Hart and Lotus-Renault & Honda, as was Schumacher in the Benneton-Ford and even Fernado gave an acceptable performance while driving for Minardi.
Kimi and Lewis and even to some extent Jenson Button were spotted early and are still expected to eventually prove their capabilities, although at this point time is certainly running out on Jenson...
Nelson Piquet, in spite of having achieved the World Driving Champion title three times in Formula One, is now thought of as perhaps being more "Lucky" than as being an especially good driver largely because when he replaced Ayrton at Lotus he was so bloody awefull.
Having the support of a top-tier team, and good chemistry between yourself as a driver, and the important team managers and engineers are very big factors in making yourself a success in Formula One. What ever you have done in the past is still only in the past and means nothing in Formula One.
[quote=StuBeck;17997859]Most drivers who do well in the feeder series though tend to do fine in F1.[/quote] I do not agree with that statement at all.
| wvallwheeldrive | 05-08-2007 11:17 PM |
its more important to have a good car in the right team then being a great driver, Button, Heidfield, and Rosburg where all good in feeder series and haven't really been great in F1. How many race wins do the three of them have combined? and how well do you think Hamilton would be doing if he was in a Honda or Toyota this year?
| rupertberr | 05-08-2007 11:25 PM |
[QUOTE=Jonathan;18007830]
Nelson Piquet, in spite of having achieved the World Driving Champion title three times in Formula One, is now thought of as perhaps being more "Lucky" than as being an especially good driver largely because when he replaced Ayrton at Lotus he was so bloody awefull.
[/QUOTE]
You might be lucky to win one World Championship, not three. If Piquet had any luck he would have won 5. Lost one in 80 when his engine blew while leading the race. Jones inherited the win and the championship. Lost another one in 86 when he was leading the Australian GP and the team forced him to pit because they wanted to check his tires after his team mate had a blow out. Still set course record chasing down Prost. One more lap and he would have caught him.
When Piquet went to Lotus the team was falling apart. Colin Champan had died, they had a new designer, the car was crap. He revitalized his career at Benetton. Finished third in the championship.
Back in 1980 the F1 drivers raced a spec BMW M1 series on Saturdays. F1 Drivers in equal cars, pretty cool. Nelson Piquet was champion.
Just remembered, 25 years ago today, rest in peace Gilles...:(
Nelson Piquet, in spite of having achieved the World Driving Champion title three times in Formula One, is now thought of as perhaps being more "Lucky" than as being an especially good driver largely because when he replaced Ayrton at Lotus he was so bloody awefull.
[/QUOTE]
You might be lucky to win one World Championship, not three. If Piquet had any luck he would have won 5. Lost one in 80 when his engine blew while leading the race. Jones inherited the win and the championship. Lost another one in 86 when he was leading the Australian GP and the team forced him to pit because they wanted to check his tires after his team mate had a blow out. Still set course record chasing down Prost. One more lap and he would have caught him.
When Piquet went to Lotus the team was falling apart. Colin Champan had died, they had a new designer, the car was crap. He revitalized his career at Benetton. Finished third in the championship.
Back in 1980 the F1 drivers raced a spec BMW M1 series on Saturdays. F1 Drivers in equal cars, pretty cool. Nelson Piquet was champion.
Just remembered, 25 years ago today, rest in peace Gilles...:(
| StuBeck | 05-08-2007 11:40 PM |
[QUOTE=Jonathan;18007830]Ron Dennis has worked closely with Lewis Hamilton ever since his early karting days. Because of this, it has always been a question of when, not if, Ron would be bringing Lewis into Formula One. Having done well in a lessor "feeder" series is not much of an indication of how well one will perform in Formula One. Having a loyal sponsour, and a top team taking an interest in you are perhaps far more important factors then your previous performance(s).
Frank Williams' interest in Jenson Button gave the young driver an opportunity to perform well (which he certainly did, at first, some 5-6 years ago), However his years wasted with Benneton / Renault and later the Dave Richards managed BAR team havent been especially succesfull, and while he finally was lucky enough to win his first race last year, it is doubtfull at this point that he will ever be regarded as one of the "top-tier" drivers.
While there are many good drivers, who if given a good car can perform very well (Kimi, Montoya, Jenson and even Jacques Villenueve), there are fairly few drivers who can make a bad car look good. Senna was awesome in his early days with the Toleman-Hart and Lotus-Renault & Honda, as was Schumacher in the Benneton-Ford and even Fernado gave an acceptable performance while driving for Minardi.
Kimi and Lewis and even to some extent Jenson Button were spotted early and are still expected to eventually prove their capabilities, although at this point time is certainly running out on Jenson...
Nelson Piquet, in spite of having achieved the World Driving Champion title three times in Formula One, is now thought of as perhaps being more "Lucky" than as being an especially good driver largely because when he replaced Ayrton at Lotus he was so bloody awefull.
Having the support of a top-tier team, and good chemistry between yourself as a driver, and the important team managers and engineers are very big factors in making yourself a success in Formula One. What ever you have done in the past is still only in the past and means nothing in Formula One.
I do not agree with that statement at all.[/QUOTE]
Most of what you talked about had nothing to do with feeder series! I don't really understand where you're coming from. While winning GP2 or F3k is not an immediate "you're going to win the F1 championship," its rare to find a driver who finished in 8th in F3 and get a drive at a championship team.
I also don't agree that a sponsor is going to give a driver more skill, or his car faster. A top team won't help either. Andretti did nothing with McLaren and he had both. It still takes amazing skill and great devotion from a driver to succeed in F1.
The last few champions in F3000/GP2 have stayed in F1 for years, so I think that is a good indication of feeder series doing well in judging the ability of a driver to stay in F1.
Frank Williams' interest in Jenson Button gave the young driver an opportunity to perform well (which he certainly did, at first, some 5-6 years ago), However his years wasted with Benneton / Renault and later the Dave Richards managed BAR team havent been especially succesfull, and while he finally was lucky enough to win his first race last year, it is doubtfull at this point that he will ever be regarded as one of the "top-tier" drivers.
While there are many good drivers, who if given a good car can perform very well (Kimi, Montoya, Jenson and even Jacques Villenueve), there are fairly few drivers who can make a bad car look good. Senna was awesome in his early days with the Toleman-Hart and Lotus-Renault & Honda, as was Schumacher in the Benneton-Ford and even Fernado gave an acceptable performance while driving for Minardi.
Kimi and Lewis and even to some extent Jenson Button were spotted early and are still expected to eventually prove their capabilities, although at this point time is certainly running out on Jenson...
Nelson Piquet, in spite of having achieved the World Driving Champion title three times in Formula One, is now thought of as perhaps being more "Lucky" than as being an especially good driver largely because when he replaced Ayrton at Lotus he was so bloody awefull.
Having the support of a top-tier team, and good chemistry between yourself as a driver, and the important team managers and engineers are very big factors in making yourself a success in Formula One. What ever you have done in the past is still only in the past and means nothing in Formula One.
I do not agree with that statement at all.[/QUOTE]
Most of what you talked about had nothing to do with feeder series! I don't really understand where you're coming from. While winning GP2 or F3k is not an immediate "you're going to win the F1 championship," its rare to find a driver who finished in 8th in F3 and get a drive at a championship team.
I also don't agree that a sponsor is going to give a driver more skill, or his car faster. A top team won't help either. Andretti did nothing with McLaren and he had both. It still takes amazing skill and great devotion from a driver to succeed in F1.
The last few champions in F3000/GP2 have stayed in F1 for years, so I think that is a good indication of feeder series doing well in judging the ability of a driver to stay in F1.
| KAX | 05-09-2007 02:48 AM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck;18008223]its rare to find a driver who finished in 8th in F3 and get a drive at a championship team.[/QUOTE]
what are you talking about? who said doing poor in GP2 means they will win in F1. If you do poorly in a feeder series, its obvious your going to do poor in F1. What the conversation at hand is about, is that just because you win in GP2 doesnt mean your going to do well in F1. No one ever said that being 8th in GP2 gives you the opportunity to do well in F1.
what are you talking about? who said doing poor in GP2 means they will win in F1. If you do poorly in a feeder series, its obvious your going to do poor in F1. What the conversation at hand is about, is that just because you win in GP2 doesnt mean your going to do well in F1. No one ever said that being 8th in GP2 gives you the opportunity to do well in F1.
| StuBeck | 05-09-2007 09:51 AM |
[QUOTE=KAX;18009699]what are you talking about? who said doing poor in GP2 means they will win in F1. If you do poorly in a feeder series, its obvious your going to do poor in F1. What the conversation at hand is about, is that just because you win in GP2 doesnt mean your going to do well in F1. No one ever said that being 8th in GP2 gives you the opportunity to do well in F1.[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about feeder series being an (general) indication of future success in F1. I honestly don't understand what the confusion is. I'm saying that if you do well in feeder series, there is a pretty good chance you'll do well in F1. People are disagreeing with that, which to me means if you do poorly in feeder series you still have a chance at F1.
I think the confusion is that people's belief of what "doing well" in F1 is. Heidfeld has done well in F1 after winning the F3000 championshipin 99. The same with Montoya. Doing well doesn't mean they had to have won 7 championships, it just means they had to have a drive for a fairly good team for a few years. Both have had this.
I also never said being 8th in GP2 gives you the opportunity to do well in F1. If you want to mock my reading comprehension, please do better yourself. I don't mean to ruffle any feathers, so I am sorry if my comments are pissing anyone off.
I'm talking about feeder series being an (general) indication of future success in F1. I honestly don't understand what the confusion is. I'm saying that if you do well in feeder series, there is a pretty good chance you'll do well in F1. People are disagreeing with that, which to me means if you do poorly in feeder series you still have a chance at F1.
I think the confusion is that people's belief of what "doing well" in F1 is. Heidfeld has done well in F1 after winning the F3000 championshipin 99. The same with Montoya. Doing well doesn't mean they had to have won 7 championships, it just means they had to have a drive for a fairly good team for a few years. Both have had this.
I also never said being 8th in GP2 gives you the opportunity to do well in F1. If you want to mock my reading comprehension, please do better yourself. I don't mean to ruffle any feathers, so I am sorry if my comments are pissing anyone off.
| KAX | 05-09-2007 11:40 AM |
Yes, but people are saying feeder series arent a [I]general[/I] indication of success, they are saying it isnt a black and white, 100% indication of success. Meaning there are other indications that can give you a much better idea of whether or not that driver will succeed.
When I say the feeder series arent a clear indication, Im talking only about succeeding. Its pretty obvious that if you do poorly in a lower series, youll do poorly in the pinnacle. That part should be understood.
When I say the feeder series arent a clear indication, Im talking only about succeeding. Its pretty obvious that if you do poorly in a lower series, youll do poorly in the pinnacle. That part should be understood.
| Ferg | 05-09-2007 11:49 AM |
All a driver's junior record provides is a certain level of expectation, nothing more.
Some manage to live up to it, even exceed, some never come close.
Grand Prix racing has always been this way, you need skill, luck, and timing, and sometimes even that's not enough.
Some manage to live up to it, even exceed, some never come close.
Grand Prix racing has always been this way, you need skill, luck, and timing, and sometimes even that's not enough.
| StuBeck | 05-09-2007 09:53 PM |
[QUOTE=KAX;18012746]Yes, but people are saying feeder series arent a [I]general[/I] indication of success, they are saying it isnt a black and white, 100% indication of success. Meaning there are other indications that can give you a much better idea of whether or not that driver will succeed.
When I say the feeder series arent a clear indication, Im talking only about succeeding. Its pretty obvious that if you do poorly in a lower series, youll do poorly in the pinnacle. That part should be understood.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying its black and white either.
When I say the feeder series arent a clear indication, Im talking only about succeeding. Its pretty obvious that if you do poorly in a lower series, youll do poorly in the pinnacle. That part should be understood.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying its black and white either.
| KAX | 05-10-2007 01:59 AM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck;18020721]I'm not saying its black and white either.[/QUOTE]
I know, im just saying we're arguing basically the same thing.
I know, im just saying we're arguing basically the same thing.
| StuBeck | 05-10-2007 08:07 AM |
Okay, :lol:
| Ferg | 05-10-2007 11:02 AM |
[QUOTE=KAX;18023152]I know, im just saying we're arguing basically the same thing.[/QUOTE]
That happens a lot in this thread :lol:
That happens a lot in this thread :lol:
| StuBeck | 05-10-2007 11:29 AM |
"You're stupid"
"No, you're stupid"
"Wait...I agree with you."
"No, you're stupid"
"Wait...I agree with you."
| KAX | 05-10-2007 01:46 PM |
lol :lol:
| Ferg | 05-13-2007 05:42 AM |
Bourdais back for Toro Rosso.
[QUOTE]Bourdais to test again for Toro Rosso
By Jonathan Noble Sunday, May 13th 2007, 09:07 GMT
Three times Champ Car champion Sebastien Bourdais will test for Scuderia Toro Rosso again next week, autosport.com can reveal, as speculation increases he will move to Formula One in 2008.
Bourdais tested for the Red Bull-owned team in Jerez last winter and team co-owner Gerhard Berger has made it clear that the French driver is in contention for one of his race seats next year.
The possibility of such a move has now increased with the team confirming that Bourdais will join them next Wednesday at Paul Ricard and in July's Belgian Grand Prix preparations at Spa-Francorchamps.
Berger has denied to autosport.com, however, that the new tests are any indication that a decision has been taken to recruit Bourdais for next season.
"We are still keeping an eye on him," said Berger. "But we will make no decision about our 2008 drivers before the middle of the season."[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Bourdais to test again for Toro Rosso
By Jonathan Noble Sunday, May 13th 2007, 09:07 GMT
Three times Champ Car champion Sebastien Bourdais will test for Scuderia Toro Rosso again next week, autosport.com can reveal, as speculation increases he will move to Formula One in 2008.
Bourdais tested for the Red Bull-owned team in Jerez last winter and team co-owner Gerhard Berger has made it clear that the French driver is in contention for one of his race seats next year.
The possibility of such a move has now increased with the team confirming that Bourdais will join them next Wednesday at Paul Ricard and in July's Belgian Grand Prix preparations at Spa-Francorchamps.
Berger has denied to autosport.com, however, that the new tests are any indication that a decision has been taken to recruit Bourdais for next season.
"We are still keeping an eye on him," said Berger. "But we will make no decision about our 2008 drivers before the middle of the season."[/QUOTE]
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