| RALLYT-WRX | 09-13-2007 12:01 PM |
[QUOTE=JoD;19360307]Man - I could give two craps about Alonso.... but I feel so bad for Lewis.
I love him as much as I love Kimi. And this is not how I wanted to see Kimi win a WDC.
It is a truly sad day for F1.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
But when you think about it, it's really simple. You cheat, you lose.
Plus we dont know if it affects the WDC or not. We will have to wait and see.
I love him as much as I love Kimi. And this is not how I wanted to see Kimi win a WDC.
It is a truly sad day for F1.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
But when you think about it, it's really simple. You cheat, you lose.
Plus we dont know if it affects the WDC or not. We will have to wait and see.
| Gundoo | 09-13-2007 12:01 PM |
[QUOTE=JoD;19360307]Man - I could give two craps about Alonso.... but I feel so bad for Lewis.
I love him as much as I love Kimi. And this is not how I wanted to see Kimi win a WDC.
It is a truly sad day for F1.[/QUOTE]
that planet f1 link doesnt specify between WDC and constructors championships. are we to assume mclaren is out of both championships?
in any case, i feel the same way. not how i wanted to see kimi win (or massa i guess, if thats how it goes)
I love him as much as I love Kimi. And this is not how I wanted to see Kimi win a WDC.
It is a truly sad day for F1.[/QUOTE]
that planet f1 link doesnt specify between WDC and constructors championships. are we to assume mclaren is out of both championships?
in any case, i feel the same way. not how i wanted to see kimi win (or massa i guess, if thats how it goes)
| mac35 | 09-13-2007 12:09 PM |
[QUOTE=RALLYT-WRX;19360332]I agree.
But when you think about it, it's really simple. You cheat, you lose.
Plus we dont know if it affects the WDC or not. We will have to wait and see.[/QUOTE]
Actually it's hardly that simple. There are degrees of everything so to possibly penalize the entire team (contructors and drivers) for the actions of who knows how many may not necessarily be fair. We'll need to see what the evidence was then make a decision of if the punishment was fair, but to say what you said is completely inaccurate.
But when you think about it, it's really simple. You cheat, you lose.
Plus we dont know if it affects the WDC or not. We will have to wait and see.[/QUOTE]
Actually it's hardly that simple. There are degrees of everything so to possibly penalize the entire team (contructors and drivers) for the actions of who knows how many may not necessarily be fair. We'll need to see what the evidence was then make a decision of if the punishment was fair, but to say what you said is completely inaccurate.
| rupertberr | 09-13-2007 12:09 PM |
[QUOTE=RALLYT-WRX;19360332]You cheat, you lose.
[/QUOTE]
Except Ferrari cheated with a movable floor and nothing happened to them. They were just asked to remove it after they won with it.
Wonder if McLaren changes its name to ProDrive tomorrow morning?
We need details!!!
[/QUOTE]
Except Ferrari cheated with a movable floor and nothing happened to them. They were just asked to remove it after they won with it.
Wonder if McLaren changes its name to ProDrive tomorrow morning?
We need details!!!
| Schumacher | 09-13-2007 12:17 PM |
[QUOTE]
According to reports on the BBC, the FIA's World Motor Sport Council has proposed that McLaren are excluded from the 2007 and 2008 World Championships.
However, the corporation claims that the exact nature of the punishment which will be meted out is still being discussed.
As such, Lewis Hamilton's World Championship bid may yet be rekindled, with McLaren expelled from the Constructors' Championship but both Alonso and Hamilton to compete for the Drivers' title.
[/QUOTE]
Not sure just yet...
According to reports on the BBC, the FIA's World Motor Sport Council has proposed that McLaren are excluded from the 2007 and 2008 World Championships.
However, the corporation claims that the exact nature of the punishment which will be meted out is still being discussed.
As such, Lewis Hamilton's World Championship bid may yet be rekindled, with McLaren expelled from the Constructors' Championship but both Alonso and Hamilton to compete for the Drivers' title.
[/QUOTE]
Not sure just yet...
| RALLYT-WRX | 09-13-2007 12:17 PM |
[QUOTE=mac35;19360424]Actually it's hardly that simple. There are degrees of everything so to possibly penalize the entire team (contructors and drivers) for the actions of who knows how many may not necessarily be fair. We'll need to see what the evidence was then make a decision of if the punishment was fair, but to say what you said is completely inaccurate.[/QUOTE]
How is it inaccurate? And since when is it up to us the fans to make a decision on what the punishement should be? I thought that was the WMSC job.
If they were found guilty by a board of officials from mutiple countries. It's not like they were found guilty in an Italian court. So it's pretty obvious that they were cheating to some degree, and judging by the ruling, a lot.
How is it inaccurate? And since when is it up to us the fans to make a decision on what the punishement should be? I thought that was the WMSC job.
If they were found guilty by a board of officials from mutiple countries. It's not like they were found guilty in an Italian court. So it's pretty obvious that they were cheating to some degree, and judging by the ruling, a lot.
| rupertberr | 09-13-2007 12:17 PM |
[B]HOLD THE PRESSES!!!![/B]
Clarification: WMSC yet to decide on verdict
By Steve Cooper Thursday, September 13th 2007, 15:09 GMT
The World Motor Sport Council has yet to agree on a final verdict, despite our earlier newsflash suggesting otherwise.
Sources have told autosport.com one of the options currently reviewed is to exclude McLaren from both the 2007 and 2008 championship - in line with the World Motor Sport Council's decision in July.
However the FIA said no decision has yet been made, although a verdict is expected imminently.
Clarification: WMSC yet to decide on verdict
By Steve Cooper Thursday, September 13th 2007, 15:09 GMT
The World Motor Sport Council has yet to agree on a final verdict, despite our earlier newsflash suggesting otherwise.
Sources have told autosport.com one of the options currently reviewed is to exclude McLaren from both the 2007 and 2008 championship - in line with the World Motor Sport Council's decision in July.
However the FIA said no decision has yet been made, although a verdict is expected imminently.
| RALLYT-WRX | 09-13-2007 12:19 PM |
[QUOTE=rupertberr;19360527][B]HOLD THE PRESSES!!!![/B]
Clarification: WMSC yet to decide on verdict
By Steve Cooper Thursday, September 13th 2007, 15:09 GMT
The World Motor Sport Council has yet to agree on a final verdict, despite our earlier newsflash suggesting otherwise.
Sources have told autosport.com one of the options currently reviewed is to exclude McLaren from both the 2007 and 2008 championship - in line with the World Motor Sport Council's decision in July.
However the FIA said no decision has yet been made, although a verdict is expected imminently.[/QUOTE]
Interesting. Gotta love it.
Clarification: WMSC yet to decide on verdict
By Steve Cooper Thursday, September 13th 2007, 15:09 GMT
The World Motor Sport Council has yet to agree on a final verdict, despite our earlier newsflash suggesting otherwise.
Sources have told autosport.com one of the options currently reviewed is to exclude McLaren from both the 2007 and 2008 championship - in line with the World Motor Sport Council's decision in July.
However the FIA said no decision has yet been made, although a verdict is expected imminently.[/QUOTE]
Interesting. Gotta love it.
| Schumacher | 09-13-2007 12:22 PM |
Rupertberr, beat ya to it. :p
If they are thrown out, can't see how the drivers won't be?
If they are thrown out, can't see how the drivers won't be?
| RALLYT-WRX | 09-13-2007 12:24 PM |
[QUOTE=Schumacher;19360574]Rupertberr, beat ya to it. :p
If they are thrown out, can't see how the drivers won't be?[/QUOTE]
I agree. If they are winning a WDC with stolen technology how can it be truly fair.
If they are thrown out, can't see how the drivers won't be?[/QUOTE]
I agree. If they are winning a WDC with stolen technology how can it be truly fair.
| Gundoo | 09-13-2007 12:26 PM |
[QUOTE=rupertberr;19360527][B]HOLD THE PRESSES!!!![/B]
Clarification: WMSC yet to decide on verdict
By Steve Cooper Thursday, September 13th 2007, 15:09 GMT
The World Motor Sport Council has yet to agree on a final verdict, despite our earlier newsflash suggesting otherwise.
Sources have told autosport.com one of the options currently reviewed is to exclude McLaren from both the 2007 and 2008 championship - in line with the World Motor Sport Council's decision in July.
However the FIA said no decision has yet been made, although a verdict is expected imminently.[/QUOTE]
those jackasses. just tell us or dont print anything. jeez.
Clarification: WMSC yet to decide on verdict
By Steve Cooper Thursday, September 13th 2007, 15:09 GMT
The World Motor Sport Council has yet to agree on a final verdict, despite our earlier newsflash suggesting otherwise.
Sources have told autosport.com one of the options currently reviewed is to exclude McLaren from both the 2007 and 2008 championship - in line with the World Motor Sport Council's decision in July.
However the FIA said no decision has yet been made, although a verdict is expected imminently.[/QUOTE]
those jackasses. just tell us or dont print anything. jeez.
| rupertberr | 09-13-2007 12:26 PM |
[QUOTE=Schumacher;19360574]Rupertberr, beat ya to it. :p
If they are thrown out, can't see how the drivers won't be?[/QUOTE]
Yea, I need a life!:p
If they are thrown out, can't see how the drivers won't be?[/QUOTE]
Yea, I need a life!:p
| mac35 | 09-13-2007 12:29 PM |
[QUOTE=RALLYT-WRX;19360518]How is it inaccurate? And since when is it up to us the fans to make a decision on what the punishement should be? I thought that was the WMSC job.
If they were found guilty by a board of officials from mutiple countries. It's not like they were found guilty in an Italian court. So it's pretty obvious that they were cheating to some degree, and judging by the ruling, a lot.[/QUOTE]
Um..rupert's example of the movable floor is perfect. Ferarri was definately cheating and what exactly was their loss? I'm confused as to your second point, while fans clearly don't make an official decision on punishment do you expect us to just go along with whatever the council decides just because they decided it? Based on what I've seen of their decision THIS year there have been numerous suspect rulings so my natural inclination now is to distrust them.
If they were found guilty by a board of officials from mutiple countries. It's not like they were found guilty in an Italian court. So it's pretty obvious that they were cheating to some degree, and judging by the ruling, a lot.[/QUOTE]
Um..rupert's example of the movable floor is perfect. Ferarri was definately cheating and what exactly was their loss? I'm confused as to your second point, while fans clearly don't make an official decision on punishment do you expect us to just go along with whatever the council decides just because they decided it? Based on what I've seen of their decision THIS year there have been numerous suspect rulings so my natural inclination now is to distrust them.
| artkevin | 09-13-2007 12:37 PM |
It's speculation. Lets wait to see the offcial results
[B]FIA propose McLaren`s expulsion[/B]
Thursday 13th September 2007
According to reports on the BBC, the FIA's World Motor Sport Council has [B]proposed [/B]that McLaren are excluded from the 2007 and 2008 World Championships.
However, the corporation claims that the exact nature of the punishment which will be meted out is still being discussed.
As such, Lewis Hamilton's World Championship bid may yet be rekindled, with McLaren expelled from the Constructors' Championship but both Alonso and Hamilton permitted to compete for the Drivers' title.
The FIA has confirmed that a definitive verdict is now imminent.
[B]FIA propose McLaren`s expulsion[/B]
Thursday 13th September 2007
According to reports on the BBC, the FIA's World Motor Sport Council has [B]proposed [/B]that McLaren are excluded from the 2007 and 2008 World Championships.
However, the corporation claims that the exact nature of the punishment which will be meted out is still being discussed.
As such, Lewis Hamilton's World Championship bid may yet be rekindled, with McLaren expelled from the Constructors' Championship but both Alonso and Hamilton permitted to compete for the Drivers' title.
The FIA has confirmed that a definitive verdict is now imminent.
| RALLYT-WRX | 09-13-2007 12:38 PM |
The movable floor thing is a weird situation. And I am not over-looking it as I am simply not sure on the exact rules when it comes to things like that. If it was illegal and it was removed for the rest of the season, fine. Punish them for the one race that they won using that set-up and move on. But again that decision is not up to me.
I think what makes the McLaren thing more serious is it jeopardizes the entire season, not just one race. Now if Ferrari used the illegal floor for the entire season and then was caught after the fact, then yes I think they should be stripped of all awards. Period.
And as far as the WMSC meeting goes, it doesn't matter if we trust them or not. They are going to make thier own decision. I am not saying that we should agree with them, but does it really matter if we disagree with them? Do you really think they care?
I think what makes the McLaren thing more serious is it jeopardizes the entire season, not just one race. Now if Ferrari used the illegal floor for the entire season and then was caught after the fact, then yes I think they should be stripped of all awards. Period.
And as far as the WMSC meeting goes, it doesn't matter if we trust them or not. They are going to make thier own decision. I am not saying that we should agree with them, but does it really matter if we disagree with them? Do you really think they care?
| parker/slc/gc8fan | 09-13-2007 12:53 PM |
Might as well be steroids.
I wonder if Ferrari has ever used another teams info to benefit.
I wonder if Ferrari has ever used another teams info to benefit.
| artkevin | 09-13-2007 01:03 PM |
[QUOTE=RALLYT-WRX;19360775]The movable floor thing is a weird situation. And I am not over-looking it as I am simply not sure on the exact rules when it comes to things like that. If it was illegal and it was removed for the rest of the season, fine. Punish them for the one race that they won using that set-up and move on. But again that decision is not up to me.
I think what makes the McLaren thing more serious is it jeopardizes the entire season, not just one race. Now if Ferrari used the illegal floor for the entire season and then was caught after the fact, then yes I think they should be stripped of all awards. Period.
And as far as the WMSC meeting goes, it doesn't matter if we trust them or not. They are going to make thier own decision. I am not saying that we should agree with them, but does it really matter if we disagree with them? Do you really think they care?[/QUOTE]
There is still zero information about what McLaren even could have gained. All that it looks like is they might have found out Ferrari's setup. Not even that they found some part that gave them a second or something that Ferrari was doing that was questionable and they called them on it.
I think what makes the McLaren thing more serious is it jeopardizes the entire season, not just one race. Now if Ferrari used the illegal floor for the entire season and then was caught after the fact, then yes I think they should be stripped of all awards. Period.
And as far as the WMSC meeting goes, it doesn't matter if we trust them or not. They are going to make thier own decision. I am not saying that we should agree with them, but does it really matter if we disagree with them? Do you really think they care?[/QUOTE]
There is still zero information about what McLaren even could have gained. All that it looks like is they might have found out Ferrari's setup. Not even that they found some part that gave them a second or something that Ferrari was doing that was questionable and they called them on it.
| Ferg | 09-13-2007 01:09 PM |
Sigh...what a crappy way to end a season.
| parker/slc/gc8fan | 09-13-2007 01:13 PM |
Really crappy.
I thought Indy 2005 was a load of dung.
I thought Indy 2005 was a load of dung.
| rupertberr | 09-13-2007 01:26 PM |
[QUOTE=RALLYT-WRX;19360775]The movable floor thing is a weird situation. And I am not over-looking it as I am simply not sure on the exact rules when it comes to things like that. If it was illegal and it was removed for the rest of the season, fine. Punish them for the one race that they won using that set-up and move on. But again that decision is not up to me.
[/QUOTE]
Movable aero devices were banned back in the late 60's and the point is Ferrari broke the rules helping them win a race decisively and they were not punished. What you suggested should have happened but it didn't. If McLaren broke the rules they should be punished as well and more so because it effected more races. However it is not fair and sporting to punish one and not the other.
We also have to remember the Mosely said the drivers would not be punished if they cooperated. How the FIA can pull that off if they ban McLaren I don't know.
[/QUOTE]
Movable aero devices were banned back in the late 60's and the point is Ferrari broke the rules helping them win a race decisively and they were not punished. What you suggested should have happened but it didn't. If McLaren broke the rules they should be punished as well and more so because it effected more races. However it is not fair and sporting to punish one and not the other.
We also have to remember the Mosely said the drivers would not be punished if they cooperated. How the FIA can pull that off if they ban McLaren I don't know.
| RALLYT-WRX | 09-13-2007 01:32 PM |
[QUOTE=rupertberr;19361436]Movable aero devices were banned back in the late 60's and the point is Ferrari broke the rules helping them win a race decisively and they were not punished. What you suggested should have happened but it didn't. If McLaren broke the rules they should be punished as well and more so because it effected more races. However it is not fair and sporting to punish one and not the other.
We also have to remember the Mosely said the drivers would not be punished if they cooperated. How the FIA can pull that off if they ban McLaren I don't know.[/QUOTE]
I see.
Wouldn't the movable front wing on the McLaren also be considered a movale aero device?
Yes, I am also curious as to how they are going to keep the WDC and the WMC seperate seing how they are connected in more ways than one.
We also have to remember the Mosely said the drivers would not be punished if they cooperated. How the FIA can pull that off if they ban McLaren I don't know.[/QUOTE]
I see.
Wouldn't the movable front wing on the McLaren also be considered a movale aero device?
Yes, I am also curious as to how they are going to keep the WDC and the WMC seperate seing how they are connected in more ways than one.
| Arioch | 09-13-2007 01:33 PM |
[quote] McLaren Chucked Out Of Constructors' Title, Drivers Free To Fight For Title
Breaking news from Paris: McLaren have been thrown out of the Constructors' Championship but both Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton will be allowed to compete for the Drivers' Championship. In addition, McLaren have been fined a record-breaking $100m..[/quote]
From PlanetF1
Breaking news from Paris: McLaren have been thrown out of the Constructors' Championship but both Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton will be allowed to compete for the Drivers' Championship. In addition, McLaren have been fined a record-breaking $100m..[/quote]
From PlanetF1
| RALLYT-WRX | 09-13-2007 01:34 PM |
BREAKING NEWS:
McLaren Chucked Out Of Constructors' Title, Drivers Free To Fight For Title
Breaking news from Paris: McLaren have been thrown out of the Constructors' Championship but both Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton will be allowed to compete for the Drivers' Championship. In addition, McLaren have been fined a record-breaking $100m.
Nevermind ;)
McLaren Chucked Out Of Constructors' Title, Drivers Free To Fight For Title
Breaking news from Paris: McLaren have been thrown out of the Constructors' Championship but both Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton will be allowed to compete for the Drivers' Championship. In addition, McLaren have been fined a record-breaking $100m.
Nevermind ;)
| shemoves | 09-13-2007 01:36 PM |
[QUOTE=rupertberr;19361436]
We also have to remember the Mosely said the drivers would not be punished if they cooperated. How the FIA can pull that off if they ban McLaren I don't know.[/QUOTE]
Everything operates as 'normal,' except when it comes to putting points in the books, McLaren doesn't exist.
We also have to remember the Mosely said the drivers would not be punished if they cooperated. How the FIA can pull that off if they ban McLaren I don't know.[/QUOTE]
Everything operates as 'normal,' except when it comes to putting points in the books, McLaren doesn't exist.
| RALLYT-WRX | 09-13-2007 01:40 PM |
McLaren out of Constructors, but drivers safe
Thursday 13th September 2007
Play Jenson's SEIKO Challenge
Take part and you could win a superb SEIKO watch. ENTER NOW!
McLaren have been booted out of this year's Constructors' Championship, however, their drivers are free to race for the World title.
That was the verdict handed down by the FIA's World Motor Sport Council following today's Stepneygate hearing in Paris.
McLaren were called to appear before the WMSC for the second time after new evidence came to light, suggesting that McLaren had made use of the Ferrari documents they were previously found guilty of being in possession of.
After hours of deliberation, the WMSC ruled that McLaren were to be stripped off their 2007 Constructors' Championship points as well as fined $100m - a record amount in F1.
The final part of the ruling is that the team's 2008 cars will be subject to examinations before racing next season.
However, on the upside, Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso will face no points-penalties and will be allowed to fight for this year's Drivers' Championship title.
Hamilton is leading the battle on 92 points, three ahead of Alonso.
Thursday 13th September 2007
Play Jenson's SEIKO Challenge
Take part and you could win a superb SEIKO watch. ENTER NOW!
McLaren have been booted out of this year's Constructors' Championship, however, their drivers are free to race for the World title.
That was the verdict handed down by the FIA's World Motor Sport Council following today's Stepneygate hearing in Paris.
McLaren were called to appear before the WMSC for the second time after new evidence came to light, suggesting that McLaren had made use of the Ferrari documents they were previously found guilty of being in possession of.
After hours of deliberation, the WMSC ruled that McLaren were to be stripped off their 2007 Constructors' Championship points as well as fined $100m - a record amount in F1.
The final part of the ruling is that the team's 2008 cars will be subject to examinations before racing next season.
However, on the upside, Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso will face no points-penalties and will be allowed to fight for this year's Drivers' Championship title.
Hamilton is leading the battle on 92 points, three ahead of Alonso.
| rupertberr | 09-13-2007 01:41 PM |
[QUOTE=shemoves;19361591]Everything operates as 'normal,' except when it comes to putting points in the books, McLaren doesn't exist.[/QUOTE]
That's about the only way they could do it.
Wait a second, is that dollars or Euros? Big difference...
[QUOTE]Wouldn't the movable front wing on the McLaren also be considered a movale aero device?[/QUOTE]
FIA checked the wing out and said it was normal flex for a wing.
That's about the only way they could do it.
Wait a second, is that dollars or Euros? Big difference...
[QUOTE]Wouldn't the movable front wing on the McLaren also be considered a movale aero device?[/QUOTE]
FIA checked the wing out and said it was normal flex for a wing.
| JoD | 09-13-2007 01:43 PM |
:whew:
I suppose this is a bit of a relief. I really didn't want to see Lewis's fight this year thrown out.
Maybe I'll get lucky and McLaren will toss out Alonso after this year in order to counter that $100 million they have to pay. :p
I suppose this is a bit of a relief. I really didn't want to see Lewis's fight this year thrown out.
Maybe I'll get lucky and McLaren will toss out Alonso after this year in order to counter that $100 million they have to pay. :p
| Arioch | 09-13-2007 01:46 PM |
[QUOTE=JoD;19361718]Maybe I'll get lucky and McLaren will toss out Alonso after this year in order to counter that $100 million they have to pay. :p[/QUOTE]
That would make me happy. I can't stand that guy.
That would make me happy. I can't stand that guy.
| NYEJ25 | 09-13-2007 01:47 PM |
Good, serves them right. To bad it's only for one season!
| rupertberr | 09-13-2007 01:50 PM |
Ron Dennis to speak at 2:15 PM Eastern on BBC:
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/mainframe.shtml?http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/fivelive.shtml[/url]
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/mainframe.shtml?http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/fivelive.shtml[/url]
| RALLYT-WRX | 09-13-2007 01:52 PM |
[QUOTE=rupertberr;19361682]That's about the only way they could do it.
Wait a second, is that dollars or Euros? Big difference...
FIA checked the wing out and said it was normal flex for a wing.[/QUOTE]
Or was it the FIA's way of saying sorry about the flexible floor, you can run your wing, even though everybody in the world can see it moving under braking and acceleration. ;)
And I believe that it's in dollars (according to F1 Planet).
Wait a second, is that dollars or Euros? Big difference...
FIA checked the wing out and said it was normal flex for a wing.[/QUOTE]
Or was it the FIA's way of saying sorry about the flexible floor, you can run your wing, even though everybody in the world can see it moving under braking and acceleration. ;)
And I believe that it's in dollars (according to F1 Planet).
| rupertberr | 09-13-2007 01:54 PM |
[QUOTE=RALLYT-WRX;19361863]
And I believe that it's in dollars (according to F1 Planet).[/QUOTE]
Ah hell, that's nothing. Dollars a worthless these days.:lol:
And I believe that it's in dollars (according to F1 Planet).[/QUOTE]
Ah hell, that's nothing. Dollars a worthless these days.:lol:
| RALLYT-WRX | 09-13-2007 02:00 PM |
I also wonder what the morale will be like in the McLaren camp. Do you think it will have any affect on their performance this weekend?
| RALLYT-WRX | 09-13-2007 02:01 PM |
McLaren stripped of constructors' points
$100 million fine imposed following WMSC hearing
13/09/07 19:47
Photo F1-Live.com
Zoom
McLaren hit with points loss and massive fine
The McLaren Mercedes team has been docked all of their points in the constructors' championship for their role in the spying affair on rivals Ferrari, the FIA announced today.
The news means that Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso are still leading the drivers' championship from their Ferrari rivals.
However, the team has also been hit with a [B][COLOR="Red"]100 million (US) dollar fine[/COLOR][/B] and will have their 2008 challenger, the MP4-23, under observation ahead of next season to ensure that intellectual property rights belonging to Ferrari are not implemented.
McLaren Mercedes led the constructors' championship with 166 points, 23 ahead of Ferrari prior to the announcement. The loss of points will also bring a financial penalty to the team in the longer-term.
Source AFP
CAPSIS International
$100 million fine imposed following WMSC hearing
13/09/07 19:47
Photo F1-Live.com
Zoom
McLaren hit with points loss and massive fine
The McLaren Mercedes team has been docked all of their points in the constructors' championship for their role in the spying affair on rivals Ferrari, the FIA announced today.
The news means that Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso are still leading the drivers' championship from their Ferrari rivals.
However, the team has also been hit with a [B][COLOR="Red"]100 million (US) dollar fine[/COLOR][/B] and will have their 2008 challenger, the MP4-23, under observation ahead of next season to ensure that intellectual property rights belonging to Ferrari are not implemented.
McLaren Mercedes led the constructors' championship with 166 points, 23 ahead of Ferrari prior to the announcement. The loss of points will also bring a financial penalty to the team in the longer-term.
Source AFP
CAPSIS International
| rupertberr | 09-13-2007 02:06 PM |
[QUOTE=rupertberr;19361838]Ron Dennis to speak at 2:15 PM Eastern on BBC:
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/mainframe.shtml?http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/fivelive.shtml[/url][/QUOTE]
It's on now.
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/mainframe.shtml?http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/fivelive.shtml[/url][/QUOTE]
It's on now.
| RALLYT-WRX | 09-13-2007 02:08 PM |
Yep Sir Jackie is on.
| brianmcd | 09-13-2007 02:11 PM |
Thanks for the link rupert. Listening now.
| RALLYT-WRX | 09-13-2007 02:17 PM |
Let the Figure pointing begin......
�
�
Alleged McLaren/Renault 'spy' named
Austrian publication makes claims...
13/09/07 17:42
Alleged Renault issues not a factor in the current
meeting of the WMSC in Paris
More detail about the possible new espionage scandal involving Renault has now emerged.
It was earlier reported that McLaren, facing the World Motor Sport Council on Thursday accused of using confidential Ferrari information, might be in possession of evidence that could incriminate Renault of a separate spying offence.
The FIA even confirmed that lawyers for the Woking based team had tried to draw Renault into the affair by recently raising �certain matters regarding Renault F1�.
The Swiss newspaper Blick said the case centred around the departure of an engineer to Renault, who allegedly took with him three disks of detailed information about McLaren's cooling and electronic systems.
Salzburger Nachrichten has now named the defector as former McLaren design engineer Phil Mackereth.
"We do not have any comment to make on this matter,� the team told F1-Live.com this afternoon. �Everything we had to say, was said to the FIA.
[B][COLOR="Red"]The Austrian newspaper also said Ron Dennis obtained in Monza from Flavio Briatore �a written confession� that this year's Renault R27 incorporates unauthorised intellectual property belonging to McLaren.[/COLOR][/B]
It is not known why Briatore would sign such a document, but it is believed that Dennis wanted to present it as evidence at the World Council meeting on Thursday but was prevented from doing so.
The rumour would, however, explain Briatore's visits to the McLaren motorhome at Monza a week ago, and possibly also his subsequent 60-minute meeting with F1 Chief Executive Bernie Ecclestone.
E.A.
Source GMM
Austrian publication makes claims...
13/09/07 17:42
Alleged Renault issues not a factor in the current
meeting of the WMSC in Paris
More detail about the possible new espionage scandal involving Renault has now emerged.
It was earlier reported that McLaren, facing the World Motor Sport Council on Thursday accused of using confidential Ferrari information, might be in possession of evidence that could incriminate Renault of a separate spying offence.
The FIA even confirmed that lawyers for the Woking based team had tried to draw Renault into the affair by recently raising �certain matters regarding Renault F1�.
The Swiss newspaper Blick said the case centred around the departure of an engineer to Renault, who allegedly took with him three disks of detailed information about McLaren's cooling and electronic systems.
Salzburger Nachrichten has now named the defector as former McLaren design engineer Phil Mackereth.
"We do not have any comment to make on this matter,� the team told F1-Live.com this afternoon. �Everything we had to say, was said to the FIA.
[B][COLOR="Red"]The Austrian newspaper also said Ron Dennis obtained in Monza from Flavio Briatore �a written confession� that this year's Renault R27 incorporates unauthorised intellectual property belonging to McLaren.[/COLOR][/B]
It is not known why Briatore would sign such a document, but it is believed that Dennis wanted to present it as evidence at the World Council meeting on Thursday but was prevented from doing so.
The rumour would, however, explain Briatore's visits to the McLaren motorhome at Monza a week ago, and possibly also his subsequent 60-minute meeting with F1 Chief Executive Bernie Ecclestone.
E.A.
Source GMM
| rupertberr | 09-13-2007 02:26 PM |
From Autosport:
[QUOTE]The full statement by the FIA
In an extraordinary meeting of the World Motor Sport Council was held in Paris on the 12th of September 2007, The following decision was taken:
"The WMSC has stripped Vodafone McLaren Mercedes of all constructors' points in the 2007 FIA Formula One World Championshiop an the team can score no point for the remainder of the season *.
"Furthermore, the team will pay a fine equal to 100 million dollar, less the FOM income lost as a result of the points deduction.
"However, due to the exceptional circumstances in which the FIA gave the team's drivers an immunity in return for providing evidence, there is no penalty in regards to drivers' points **.
"The WMSC will receive a full technical report on the 2008 McLaren car and will take a decision at its December 2007 meeting as to what sanction, if any, will be imposed on the team for the 2008 season."
The full reasons for this decision will be issued on the 14th September 2007.
* Points gained by other teams so far this season will not be affected.
** No McLaren representative will be allowed on the podium should a McLaren driver win in any of the remaining races of the 2007 season.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]The full statement by the FIA
In an extraordinary meeting of the World Motor Sport Council was held in Paris on the 12th of September 2007, The following decision was taken:
"The WMSC has stripped Vodafone McLaren Mercedes of all constructors' points in the 2007 FIA Formula One World Championshiop an the team can score no point for the remainder of the season *.
"Furthermore, the team will pay a fine equal to 100 million dollar, less the FOM income lost as a result of the points deduction.
"However, due to the exceptional circumstances in which the FIA gave the team's drivers an immunity in return for providing evidence, there is no penalty in regards to drivers' points **.
"The WMSC will receive a full technical report on the 2008 McLaren car and will take a decision at its December 2007 meeting as to what sanction, if any, will be imposed on the team for the 2008 season."
The full reasons for this decision will be issued on the 14th September 2007.
* Points gained by other teams so far this season will not be affected.
** No McLaren representative will be allowed on the podium should a McLaren driver win in any of the remaining races of the 2007 season.[/QUOTE]
| RALLYT-WRX | 09-13-2007 02:28 PM |
So if they lose $100m dollars from the points drop the fine is 0?
| rupertberr | 09-13-2007 02:31 PM |
[QUOTE=RALLYT-WRX;19362356]So if they lose $100m dollars from the points drop the fine is 0?[/QUOTE]
Don't think they make that much from points. Think it is closer to $40m if you win the championship. Either way they are out $100m.
Don't think they make that much from points. Think it is closer to $40m if you win the championship. Either way they are out $100m.
| RALLYT-WRX | 09-13-2007 02:33 PM |
Oh. I see.
So when is the press conference? So far its only soccer and rugby talk.
So when is the press conference? So far its only soccer and rugby talk.
| rupertberr | 09-13-2007 02:36 PM |
[QUOTE=RALLYT-WRX;19362441]Oh. I see.
So when is the press conference? So far its only soccer and rugby talk.[/QUOTE]
Not sure. Ron is probably getting his story straight with his lawyers before he goes public.
Like what Jackie Stewart has been saying. Others have done the same before with no penalty. Why now and so much?
So when is the press conference? So far its only soccer and rugby talk.[/QUOTE]
Not sure. Ron is probably getting his story straight with his lawyers before he goes public.
Like what Jackie Stewart has been saying. Others have done the same before with no penalty. Why now and so much?
| RALLYT-WRX | 09-13-2007 02:37 PM |
Am I the only one that loves to listen to the news/traffic girl? :)
| rupertberr | 09-13-2007 02:46 PM |
From Racer: F1: WMSC Decision a "Shock," Says Mercedes' Haug
[QUOTE]
Mercedes-Benz motorsport director Norbert Haug was the first of McLaren�s top echelon to state his reaction regarding today�s decision by the World Motor Sport Council, which has excluded McLaren-Mercedes from the 2007 Formula 1 constructor�s championship in the wake of the �Stepneygate� spy scandal � and also applied a $100m fine to the team, and determined that its �08 car comes under scrutiny before racing next year to make sure it doesn�t benefit from Ferrari intellectual property.
�This judgment comes as an extreme shock for all team members and, as demonstrated by the reactions of large parts of the public, the media and Formula
1 viewers, is a shock for large segments of the public as well,� Haug said.
�We will now fight with all our resolve in order to give a proper response on the circuit, as we last did in Monza, and to get justice before the court.�
McLaren can still contest the decision in the FIA�s International Court of Appeal.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
Mercedes-Benz motorsport director Norbert Haug was the first of McLaren�s top echelon to state his reaction regarding today�s decision by the World Motor Sport Council, which has excluded McLaren-Mercedes from the 2007 Formula 1 constructor�s championship in the wake of the �Stepneygate� spy scandal � and also applied a $100m fine to the team, and determined that its �08 car comes under scrutiny before racing next year to make sure it doesn�t benefit from Ferrari intellectual property.
�This judgment comes as an extreme shock for all team members and, as demonstrated by the reactions of large parts of the public, the media and Formula
1 viewers, is a shock for large segments of the public as well,� Haug said.
�We will now fight with all our resolve in order to give a proper response on the circuit, as we last did in Monza, and to get justice before the court.�
McLaren can still contest the decision in the FIA�s International Court of Appeal.[/QUOTE]
| rupertberr | 09-13-2007 02:51 PM |
Paraphrasing:
Ron Dennis doesn't except ruling. McLaren never used information from another team to build car. Team in shock. Will fight this weekend and appeal court findings.
Ron Dennis doesn't except ruling. McLaren never used information from another team to build car. Team in shock. Will fight this weekend and appeal court findings.
| JoD | 09-13-2007 02:53 PM |
From ITV:
Ferrari satisfied truth is out
Monday, 01, January, 0001, 00:00
Ferrari says it is 'satisfied' that the full story behind the spying controversy emerged in today's World Motor Sport Council hearing in Paris.
The FIA stripped McLaren-Mercedes of all its 2007 constructors' championship points, fined the team $100 million, and demanded that its 2008 design is presented for inspection before the start of next season.
"Ferrari acknowledges the decision of the FIA to sanction Vodafone McLaren Mercedes for its breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code," said a team statement.
"In light of new evidence, facts and behaviour of an extremely serious nature and grossly prejudicial to the interest of the sport have been further demonstrated.
"Ferrari is satisfied that the truth has now emerged."
The FIA has said that it will release more details of the evidence at the centre of the case tomorrow.
McLaren is due to respond to the outcome of the hearing in a press conference this evening.
Wow - Ferrari is excited about the "truth" coming out.
Someone please note the date and time, as the ultimate level of hypocrisy has just been reached.
Ferrari satisfied truth is out
Monday, 01, January, 0001, 00:00
Ferrari says it is 'satisfied' that the full story behind the spying controversy emerged in today's World Motor Sport Council hearing in Paris.
The FIA stripped McLaren-Mercedes of all its 2007 constructors' championship points, fined the team $100 million, and demanded that its 2008 design is presented for inspection before the start of next season.
"Ferrari acknowledges the decision of the FIA to sanction Vodafone McLaren Mercedes for its breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code," said a team statement.
"In light of new evidence, facts and behaviour of an extremely serious nature and grossly prejudicial to the interest of the sport have been further demonstrated.
"Ferrari is satisfied that the truth has now emerged."
The FIA has said that it will release more details of the evidence at the centre of the case tomorrow.
McLaren is due to respond to the outcome of the hearing in a press conference this evening.
Wow - Ferrari is excited about the "truth" coming out.
Someone please note the date and time, as the ultimate level of hypocrisy has just been reached.
| RALLYT-WRX | 09-13-2007 02:57 PM |
[QUOTE=rupertberr;19362716]Paraphrasing:
Ron Dennis doesn't except ruling. McLaren never used information from another team to build car. Team in shock. Will fight this weekend and appeal court findings.[/QUOTE]
We did you hear the conference? I have been listening to 5 live and I have yet to hear it.
Ron Dennis doesn't except ruling. McLaren never used information from another team to build car. Team in shock. Will fight this weekend and appeal court findings.[/QUOTE]
We did you hear the conference? I have been listening to 5 live and I have yet to hear it.
| rupertberr | 09-13-2007 03:08 PM |
[QUOTE=RALLYT-WRX;19362807]We did you hear the conference? I have been listening to 5 live and I have yet to hear it.[/QUOTE]
They were talking to their guy in Paris and he was going over what Ron said. Sounds like they will broadcast part of the conference tape delayed later in the show.
They were talking to their guy in Paris and he was going over what Ron said. Sounds like they will broadcast part of the conference tape delayed later in the show.
| rupertberr | 09-13-2007 03:11 PM |
McLaren Statement from [url]www.mclaren.co.uk[/url]
[QUOTE]PRESS INFORMATION - STATEMENT FROM RON - 13 March 2007
Paris, France, Thursday 13th September 2007
�The most important thing is that we will be going motor racing this weekend, the rest of the season and every season. This means that our drivers can continue to compete for the World Championship. However having been at the hearing today I do not accept that we deserved to be penalised in this way.�
�Today�s evidence given to the FIA by our drivers, engineers and staff clearly demonstrated that we did not use any leaked information to gain a competitive advantage.�
�Much has been made in the press and at the hearing today of emails and text messages to and from our drivers. The World Motorsport Council received statements from Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton and Pedro de la Rosa stating categorically that no Ferrari information had been used by McLaren and that they had not passed any confidential data to the team.�
�The entire engineering team in excess of 140 people provided statements to the FIA affirming that they had never received or used the Ferrari information.�
�We have never denied that the information from Ferrari was in the personal possession of one of our employees at his home. The issue is: was this information used by McLaren? This is not the case and has not been proven today.�
�We are also continually asked if McLaren didn�t use the information, what was the reason for Stepney and Coughlan collecting all this data about Ferrari? We can only speculate as neither Coughlan nor Stepney gave evidence at today�s hearing, but we do know that they were both seeking employment with other teams, as already confirmed by both Honda and Toyota.�
�There will be no issue for the 2008 season as we have not at any stage used any intellectual property of any other team.�
�We have got the best drivers and the best car and we intend to win the World Championship.�
- ENDS -
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]PRESS INFORMATION - STATEMENT FROM RON - 13 March 2007
Paris, France, Thursday 13th September 2007
�The most important thing is that we will be going motor racing this weekend, the rest of the season and every season. This means that our drivers can continue to compete for the World Championship. However having been at the hearing today I do not accept that we deserved to be penalised in this way.�
�Today�s evidence given to the FIA by our drivers, engineers and staff clearly demonstrated that we did not use any leaked information to gain a competitive advantage.�
�Much has been made in the press and at the hearing today of emails and text messages to and from our drivers. The World Motorsport Council received statements from Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton and Pedro de la Rosa stating categorically that no Ferrari information had been used by McLaren and that they had not passed any confidential data to the team.�
�The entire engineering team in excess of 140 people provided statements to the FIA affirming that they had never received or used the Ferrari information.�
�We have never denied that the information from Ferrari was in the personal possession of one of our employees at his home. The issue is: was this information used by McLaren? This is not the case and has not been proven today.�
�We are also continually asked if McLaren didn�t use the information, what was the reason for Stepney and Coughlan collecting all this data about Ferrari? We can only speculate as neither Coughlan nor Stepney gave evidence at today�s hearing, but we do know that they were both seeking employment with other teams, as already confirmed by both Honda and Toyota.�
�There will be no issue for the 2008 season as we have not at any stage used any intellectual property of any other team.�
�We have got the best drivers and the best car and we intend to win the World Championship.�
- ENDS -
[/QUOTE]
| themarxist | 09-13-2007 04:33 PM |
[quote=JoD;19362738]From ITV:
Ferrari satisfied truth is out
Monday, 01, January, 0001, 00:00
Ferrari says it is 'satisfied' that the full story behind the spying controversy emerged in today's World Motor Sport Council hearing in Paris.
The FIA stripped McLaren-Mercedes of all its 2007 constructors' championship points, fined the team $100 million, and demanded that its 2008 design is presented for inspection before the start of next season.
"Ferrari acknowledges the decision of the FIA to sanction Vodafone McLaren Mercedes for its breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code," said a team statement.
"In light of new evidence, facts and behaviour of an extremely serious nature and grossly prejudicial to the interest of the sport have been further demonstrated.
"Ferrari is satisfied that the truth has now emerged."
The FIA has said that it will release more details of the evidence at the centre of the case tomorrow.
McLaren is due to respond to the outcome of the hearing in a press conference this evening.
Wow - Ferrari is excited about the "truth" coming out.
Someone please note the date and time, as the ultimate level of hypocrisy has just been reached.[/quote]
I [I]bet [/I]they're friggin satisfied. Bastiges.
Ferrari satisfied truth is out
Monday, 01, January, 0001, 00:00
Ferrari says it is 'satisfied' that the full story behind the spying controversy emerged in today's World Motor Sport Council hearing in Paris.
The FIA stripped McLaren-Mercedes of all its 2007 constructors' championship points, fined the team $100 million, and demanded that its 2008 design is presented for inspection before the start of next season.
"Ferrari acknowledges the decision of the FIA to sanction Vodafone McLaren Mercedes for its breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code," said a team statement.
"In light of new evidence, facts and behaviour of an extremely serious nature and grossly prejudicial to the interest of the sport have been further demonstrated.
"Ferrari is satisfied that the truth has now emerged."
The FIA has said that it will release more details of the evidence at the centre of the case tomorrow.
McLaren is due to respond to the outcome of the hearing in a press conference this evening.
Wow - Ferrari is excited about the "truth" coming out.
Someone please note the date and time, as the ultimate level of hypocrisy has just been reached.[/quote]
I [I]bet [/I]they're friggin satisfied. Bastiges.
| Scooby-Doode | 09-13-2007 05:04 PM |
I want to see this evidence. I would also like to know where that 100Million is going? To Ferrari? To FOM? To Max Mosley's bank account?
| rupertberr | 09-13-2007 05:57 PM |
Autosport
[QUOTE]Q & A with Dennis and Whitmarsh
By Steve Cooper Thursday, September 13th 2007, 19:39 GMT
Q: Do you feel you're the only team in Formula One who deserve to be punished for this sort of incident?
Martin Whitmarsh: "The starting point is, we do not believe that we should have been punished in this way. And I think today we should just concentrate on this situation, not what's happening to other teams."
Q: Do you think FIA president Max Mosley's attitude has changed from the last World Motor Sport Council meeting (in July)?
Ron Dennis: "I have no comment on that."
Q: What was the new evidence submitted in today's hearing?
Dennis: "The evidence today was primarily email traffic between our drivers. And in one instance - Mike Coughlan."
Whitmarsh: "As we've said earlier, these were a few emails, and the drivers have stated categorically that no information was passed to the team."
Dennis: "And of course the team had no knowledge of this email traffic at any stage."
Q: How damaging financially is the punishment to McLaren?
Dennis: "Firstly, effectively, we will still have as an offset the revenue from the points earned to date. That will effectively half the size of the cheque we have to sign, if we ultimately accept this fine.
"But as you can see if you read our accounts, we turn over roughly $450-500 million USD a year, and we are debt-free, so obviously we are a very strong company with phenomenal growth.
"I jokingly asked [Mercedes motorsport director] Norbert [Haug] if he was going to chip in half, but we haven't really come to a conclusion on that negotiation."
Q: And does today's verdict make you consider your own future?
Dennis: "My personal future was never in question as far as I was concerned. I'm very committed to this company, I'm very passionate about motor racing, and I have absolutely no intention of retiring.
"I've made a firm commitment to Martin (Whitmarsh) to succeed me as CEO, and that decision - whenever it's taken - will not have any bearing on today's affair or any other issues this year."
Q: How is this going to affect the future of your drivers?
Dennis: "We have multi-year contracts with both of our drivers, and there has been no discussion about varying them.
"We have two of the best drivers in the world, and our commitment to winning races is undiminished. That's what we exist to do - to win races.
"And if there is any variation to those contracts, it will be by mutual agreements."
Q: Do you have a feeling that the FIA has held double standards in this decision?
Dennis: "I'm not going to make any comment as to the FIA's findings other than the fact that we are firmly of the opinion that we definitely do not concur with their findings.
"But until we have all the details from the FIA, it is impossible for me to have a position on it.
"They've issued [a statement about] the penalties but they haven't issued the actual findings, and it would be wholly inappropriate for me to make any comment until we have those findings."[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Q & A with Dennis and Whitmarsh
By Steve Cooper Thursday, September 13th 2007, 19:39 GMT
Q: Do you feel you're the only team in Formula One who deserve to be punished for this sort of incident?
Martin Whitmarsh: "The starting point is, we do not believe that we should have been punished in this way. And I think today we should just concentrate on this situation, not what's happening to other teams."
Q: Do you think FIA president Max Mosley's attitude has changed from the last World Motor Sport Council meeting (in July)?
Ron Dennis: "I have no comment on that."
Q: What was the new evidence submitted in today's hearing?
Dennis: "The evidence today was primarily email traffic between our drivers. And in one instance - Mike Coughlan."
Whitmarsh: "As we've said earlier, these were a few emails, and the drivers have stated categorically that no information was passed to the team."
Dennis: "And of course the team had no knowledge of this email traffic at any stage."
Q: How damaging financially is the punishment to McLaren?
Dennis: "Firstly, effectively, we will still have as an offset the revenue from the points earned to date. That will effectively half the size of the cheque we have to sign, if we ultimately accept this fine.
"But as you can see if you read our accounts, we turn over roughly $450-500 million USD a year, and we are debt-free, so obviously we are a very strong company with phenomenal growth.
"I jokingly asked [Mercedes motorsport director] Norbert [Haug] if he was going to chip in half, but we haven't really come to a conclusion on that negotiation."
Q: And does today's verdict make you consider your own future?
Dennis: "My personal future was never in question as far as I was concerned. I'm very committed to this company, I'm very passionate about motor racing, and I have absolutely no intention of retiring.
"I've made a firm commitment to Martin (Whitmarsh) to succeed me as CEO, and that decision - whenever it's taken - will not have any bearing on today's affair or any other issues this year."
Q: How is this going to affect the future of your drivers?
Dennis: "We have multi-year contracts with both of our drivers, and there has been no discussion about varying them.
"We have two of the best drivers in the world, and our commitment to winning races is undiminished. That's what we exist to do - to win races.
"And if there is any variation to those contracts, it will be by mutual agreements."
Q: Do you have a feeling that the FIA has held double standards in this decision?
Dennis: "I'm not going to make any comment as to the FIA's findings other than the fact that we are firmly of the opinion that we definitely do not concur with their findings.
"But until we have all the details from the FIA, it is impossible for me to have a position on it.
"They've issued [a statement about] the penalties but they haven't issued the actual findings, and it would be wholly inappropriate for me to make any comment until we have those findings."[/QUOTE]
| cdvma | 09-13-2007 09:14 PM |
I like how he left open the possibility of variations to the contracts instead of just saying for sure that they will enforce them...
| kwak | 09-13-2007 09:48 PM |
$100m for not using information about your competitor?
Don't forget that independent of the "motosprots council" there is also the investigation going on by the Italian legal system. Remember how many years they tried going after Williams' team members when Senna died in a Williams?
Don't forget that independent of the "motosprots council" there is also the investigation going on by the Italian legal system. Remember how many years they tried going after Williams' team members when Senna died in a Williams?
| Ferg | 09-13-2007 10:07 PM |
[QUOTE]We can only speculate as neither Coughlan nor Stepney gave evidence at today�s hearing...[/QUOTE]
Yeah because why ask the guys directly involved...
Yeah because why ask the guys directly involved...
| KAX | 09-13-2007 10:16 PM |
um, setup information is information. and they used it.
| artkevin | 09-14-2007 12:23 AM |
How does Ferrari's setup info help McLaren? The only thing those two cars have in common is the 4 Bridgestones. Setup is so dynamic I can't see how having info even from a month ago can help a rival team.
Someone else brought it up but how is it that Toyota has two men hired from Ferrari that are found guilty of industrial espionage and serve jail time but Toyota doesn't get fined a cent or lose a point?
Someone else brought it up but how is it that Toyota has two men hired from Ferrari that are found guilty of industrial espionage and serve jail time but Toyota doesn't get fined a cent or lose a point?
| BillT | 09-14-2007 01:02 AM |
[QUOTE=artkevin;19368422]How does Ferrari's setup info help McLaren? The only thing those two cars have in common is the 4 Bridgestones. Setup is so dynamic I can't see how having info even from a month ago can help a rival team.
[/QUOTE]
If that information is meaningless, then why do teams protect it? If that information is meaningless, why don't McLaren show us how meaningless it is by publishing all of their car diagrams, setup information, etc on the net just to prove their point?
[/QUOTE]
If that information is meaningless, then why do teams protect it? If that information is meaningless, why don't McLaren show us how meaningless it is by publishing all of their car diagrams, setup information, etc on the net just to prove their point?
| RALLYT-WRX | 09-14-2007 08:16 AM |
[QUOTE=BillT;19368701]If that information is meaningless, then why do teams protect it? If that information is meaningless, why don't McLaren show us how meaningless it is by publishing all of their car diagrams, setup information, etc on the net just to prove their point?[/QUOTE]
I believe set-up information is even more critical with the spec tires they are using this year. Especially with the experience that Ferrari has with the Bridgestones as opposed to the Michelins. A half a degree difference in the cars set-up can sometimes be the difference between first on the podium and last in the field.
I believe set-up information is even more critical with the spec tires they are using this year. Especially with the experience that Ferrari has with the Bridgestones as opposed to the Michelins. A half a degree difference in the cars set-up can sometimes be the difference between first on the podium and last in the field.
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