| Ferg | 12-22-2006 10:49 AM |
More on the "customer car" issue...
[QUOTE]Theissen: customer car row may go to court
By Jonathan Noble Friday, December 22nd 2006, 10:49 GMT
The customer car row surrounding Super Aguri and Scuderia Toro Rosso is probably heading for the courts, claims BMW Motorsport Director Mario Theissen.
As autosport.com revealed earlier this week, a number of leading teams have already indicated their support for Spyker's stance that teams must design and build their own cars in 2007.
BMW-Sauber are one of the teams that have not yet responded officially to Spyker's request to confirm their position regarding customer cars.
But speaking to autosport.com about the situation, Theissen has said that the conflicting views between some teams and Super Aguri and Toro Rosso make it likely that the only way to resolve the situation is through legal action.
Both Super Aguri and Toro Rosso insist that they are building their own cars for 2007, but other teams maintain that their plans to run development versions of other cars is a breach of F1's rules.
Theissen said: "Both teams say they are within the regulations, and I don't know more than that.
"I know there is some argument between these two teams and at least one other independent team. Let's wait and see what the outcome will be, but it could well be that there is a legal case."
Spyker boss Colin Kolles told Autosport magazine recently that the team would not rule out arbitration if no compromise solution could be found to the situation.
"There are other teams that see the situation the same as we do," he said. "In 2008 it's a different matter, but in 2007 you have clear regulations. We are ready to go to arbitration."[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Theissen: customer car row may go to court
By Jonathan Noble Friday, December 22nd 2006, 10:49 GMT
The customer car row surrounding Super Aguri and Scuderia Toro Rosso is probably heading for the courts, claims BMW Motorsport Director Mario Theissen.
As autosport.com revealed earlier this week, a number of leading teams have already indicated their support for Spyker's stance that teams must design and build their own cars in 2007.
BMW-Sauber are one of the teams that have not yet responded officially to Spyker's request to confirm their position regarding customer cars.
But speaking to autosport.com about the situation, Theissen has said that the conflicting views between some teams and Super Aguri and Toro Rosso make it likely that the only way to resolve the situation is through legal action.
Both Super Aguri and Toro Rosso insist that they are building their own cars for 2007, but other teams maintain that their plans to run development versions of other cars is a breach of F1's rules.
Theissen said: "Both teams say they are within the regulations, and I don't know more than that.
"I know there is some argument between these two teams and at least one other independent team. Let's wait and see what the outcome will be, but it could well be that there is a legal case."
Spyker boss Colin Kolles told Autosport magazine recently that the team would not rule out arbitration if no compromise solution could be found to the situation.
"There are other teams that see the situation the same as we do," he said. "In 2008 it's a different matter, but in 2007 you have clear regulations. We are ready to go to arbitration."[/QUOTE]
| StuBeck | 12-22-2006 02:28 PM |
[QUOTE=TimStevens;16413409]IMHO the pinnacle of motorsports is also the pinnacle of technology, and spec ECU doesn't equal that.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that definition keeps F1 out of the pinnacle of motorsports. No ABS, no turbo's, there are a ton of stuff they could have but they don't. Getting a spec ECU isn't going to change stuff, its not like the teams are making their own, everything is outsourced. What the spec ECU will do is mean the FIA will completely understand the ECU and be able to keep stuff like tc and other things which aren't allowed actually out of the series.
The problem is that definition keeps F1 out of the pinnacle of motorsports. No ABS, no turbo's, there are a ton of stuff they could have but they don't. Getting a spec ECU isn't going to change stuff, its not like the teams are making their own, everything is outsourced. What the spec ECU will do is mean the FIA will completely understand the ECU and be able to keep stuff like tc and other things which aren't allowed actually out of the series.
| TimStevens | 12-22-2006 02:33 PM |
Well, FWIW I was never in support of banning ABS or traction control or any of that stuff. The races back in the early-mid 90's with fully tricked out cars were far, far more exciting than the ones we've seen of late, and with modern safety advances those cars could be just as safe as the current cars.
So, to me, this is another step in the wrong direction.
So, to me, this is another step in the wrong direction.
| Ferg | 12-22-2006 02:44 PM |
I guess we have to decide why we watch F1 in the first place, is it for the technology or the skill of the drivers.
IMHO any technology that blurs the line between the good and the truly great has no place in F1.
Traction control is bad enough, but the FIA wants to allow stability control as well...at that point who cares who's driving the car? It won't matter if you have an Ide or an Alonso any longer... Call them F1 operators because they won't be drivers as we know them.
IMHO any technology that blurs the line between the good and the truly great has no place in F1.
Traction control is bad enough, but the FIA wants to allow stability control as well...at that point who cares who's driving the car? It won't matter if you have an Ide or an Alonso any longer... Call them F1 operators because they won't be drivers as we know them.
| TimStevens | 12-22-2006 02:58 PM |
IIRC when there was traction control, stability control, even 4WD and all sorts of other cool goodies it was still perfectly clear who had the skills and who did not. Maybe ya'll weren't watching in those years.
But, this is a somewhat off-topic discussion for this thread. :)
But, this is a somewhat off-topic discussion for this thread. :)
| StuBeck | 12-22-2006 02:59 PM |
I don't believe they're going to allow stability control. The main reason they're going to spec ECU's is so they can ban stuff like TC and know its gone.
I personally like the racing they have now, 93 was cool and all, but the cars were so advanced that outside of Williams and McLaren the other teams would usually be 2 or 3 seconds off, with the slowest teams being 6 or 7 seconds off the top teams.
And no, I didn't see when they had 4wd, I wasn't born till 83, and the ony real 4WD car in F1 was in the late 60's, but that never raced.
I personally like the racing they have now, 93 was cool and all, but the cars were so advanced that outside of Williams and McLaren the other teams would usually be 2 or 3 seconds off, with the slowest teams being 6 or 7 seconds off the top teams.
And no, I didn't see when they had 4wd, I wasn't born till 83, and the ony real 4WD car in F1 was in the late 60's, but that never raced.
| TimStevens | 12-22-2006 03:10 PM |
I must say I'm a little off on the 4WD thing. I absolutely would have sworn that in 1993 Benetton was playing with a 4WD system that they used on the last race or two, but I can't find a lick of info about it anywhere...so I guess I must have imagined it :)
| Ferg | 12-22-2006 03:16 PM |
Reread the porposed rule changes a page or so back, they're definately talking about allowing stability control into F1 by 2011.
[QUOTE]- greater emphasis on cornering performance and handling by means of chassis, suspension, and brake management
- possibly also free up driver-aid electronics[/QUOTE]
Mark Hughes summed it up very nicely in the Nov 23rd issue of Autosport.
[QUOTE]What we appear to be talking about here is stability control, or some variation of it-the technology that already saves many road car drivers from themselves by comparing the car's speed, steering angle and slip angle and ensuring a corner is taken at a safe speed. Re-applied to F1 it will ensure the corner is taken at optimum speed. It will mean that all the driver has to do is brake late, get the turn-in approximately right and the systems will do the rest. There will ne no difference between a good and a great driver. The ability to use weight shift to aid turn-in, take maximum momemtum into a corner so oas not to triger the traction control or to smoothly trade off braking force for cornering will count for nothing-because the sytems will do it better.
If you thought traction control was bad, you aint seen nothing yet. Traction control aids drivers in the easiest part of the cornering process-the exit. Stability control will aid them on the hardest part-the entry. From a sporting perspective, it's evil.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]- greater emphasis on cornering performance and handling by means of chassis, suspension, and brake management
- possibly also free up driver-aid electronics[/QUOTE]
Mark Hughes summed it up very nicely in the Nov 23rd issue of Autosport.
[QUOTE]What we appear to be talking about here is stability control, or some variation of it-the technology that already saves many road car drivers from themselves by comparing the car's speed, steering angle and slip angle and ensuring a corner is taken at a safe speed. Re-applied to F1 it will ensure the corner is taken at optimum speed. It will mean that all the driver has to do is brake late, get the turn-in approximately right and the systems will do the rest. There will ne no difference between a good and a great driver. The ability to use weight shift to aid turn-in, take maximum momemtum into a corner so oas not to triger the traction control or to smoothly trade off braking force for cornering will count for nothing-because the sytems will do it better.
If you thought traction control was bad, you aint seen nothing yet. Traction control aids drivers in the easiest part of the cornering process-the exit. Stability control will aid them on the hardest part-the entry. From a sporting perspective, it's evil.[/QUOTE]
| Ferg | 12-22-2006 03:25 PM |
[QUOTE=TimStevens;16416865]IIRC when there was traction control, stability control, even 4WD and all sorts of other cool goodies it was still perfectly clear who had the skills and who did not. Maybe ya'll weren't watching in those years.
But, this is a somewhat off-topic discussion for this thread. :)[/QUOTE]
I think it helps pass the time until March :D
I remember Patrese holding off Senna, lap after lap after lap at Hungary in 1992 because his Williams had a more advanced driver aid package....
The four wheel drive car was a development of the Lotus 56, powered by a gas turbine and designed for Indy. After USAC banned it in America, Lotus tried it out in GP racing. It ran a couple of races at Brands Hatch and Monza in 1971 IIRC and didn't make much of an impression, even with Emmo doing the driving. Before that I seem to remember someone trying a Ferguson (yah!) four wheel drive system back in the 50s or 60s without much success.
But, this is a somewhat off-topic discussion for this thread. :)[/QUOTE]
I think it helps pass the time until March :D
I remember Patrese holding off Senna, lap after lap after lap at Hungary in 1992 because his Williams had a more advanced driver aid package....
The four wheel drive car was a development of the Lotus 56, powered by a gas turbine and designed for Indy. After USAC banned it in America, Lotus tried it out in GP racing. It ran a couple of races at Brands Hatch and Monza in 1971 IIRC and didn't make much of an impression, even with Emmo doing the driving. Before that I seem to remember someone trying a Ferguson (yah!) four wheel drive system back in the 50s or 60s without much success.
| KAX | 12-22-2006 04:10 PM |
so what is FIAs reasoning for wanting stability control?
| StuBeck | 12-22-2006 04:11 PM |
The type 59 or 61 never raced, it was supposed to be the next car after the 49 (the 49 was only supposed to race for 67...but it was deciptively awesome) but Hill never liked it, and it was always about a second off of the 49.
I know what the FIA has said, but I think thats not going to happen. The whole reason to go to the spec ECU is so they could take away the driver aids and know they were gone. Why take it out but then three years later put it back in? I just don't think it makes sense. The main reason I watch rallying is because the cars look like they're out of control all the time. F1 is the same way...but they just don't look like it because of all the driver aids they have.
Tim, I think you're thinking of 4 wheel [I]steering.[/I] Benneton ran it but the drivers did not like it, so it was disconnect most of the time.
I know what the FIA has said, but I think thats not going to happen. The whole reason to go to the spec ECU is so they could take away the driver aids and know they were gone. Why take it out but then three years later put it back in? I just don't think it makes sense. The main reason I watch rallying is because the cars look like they're out of control all the time. F1 is the same way...but they just don't look like it because of all the driver aids they have.
Tim, I think you're thinking of 4 wheel [I]steering.[/I] Benneton ran it but the drivers did not like it, so it was disconnect most of the time.
| ptclaus98 | 12-22-2006 04:12 PM |
What about adding weight penalties for having aids? That seems like a great idea.
| grippgoat | 12-22-2006 04:39 PM |
People said the same things about traction control before it came back... that the driver just has to mash the gas, but look at how wrong they were. I think the same is true of stability control. A driver who can get the car into the corner under braking faster, on a better line, and get the most optimally straight exit, will still be faster, I think. But I guess that all depends on exactly what the "stability control" is allowed to do. There's really only power, brakes, diffs, and steering. Only brakes and steering aren't under electronic control right now.
Also, I think if they can actually reduce aero to like 1/10th what it is today, but keep power similar and focus on mechanical grip... I think even with stability control, those cars would be plenty hard to drive.
There's also a lot of other aspects to racing in F1 that differentiate a good driver from a great one, like passing ability, strategy, car/tire management, etc.
-Mike
Also, I think if they can actually reduce aero to like 1/10th what it is today, but keep power similar and focus on mechanical grip... I think even with stability control, those cars would be plenty hard to drive.
There's also a lot of other aspects to racing in F1 that differentiate a good driver from a great one, like passing ability, strategy, car/tire management, etc.
-Mike
| grippgoat | 12-22-2006 04:43 PM |
[QUOTE=ptclaus98;16417598]What about adding weight penalties for having aids? That seems like a great idea.[/QUOTE]
I don't think adding weight for driver aids is a great idea, but I'd LOVE to see some rewards weight.
-Mike
I don't think adding weight for driver aids is a great idea, but I'd LOVE to see some rewards weight.
-Mike
| StuBeck | 12-22-2006 05:00 PM |
Yes, better drivers will take better lines and be faster, but the problem is how much the aids have leveled the playing field. All the drivers talk about how they now just hit the gas on exit and let the TC take over, and that they have to do this to be fast. This is making them both seem faster than they actually are, but also forcing them to drive worse.
I don't think people were wrong about TC, the only reason it was brought back was because the FIA couldn't police it, so they let everyone have it instead of only a few. This is also why they banned launch control, because they now have a much better idea of how it is used, and even the ban only covers the first 60 meters.
I don't think people were wrong about TC, the only reason it was brought back was because the FIA couldn't police it, so they let everyone have it instead of only a few. This is also why they banned launch control, because they now have a much better idea of how it is used, and even the ban only covers the first 60 meters.
| Smart_alek | 12-22-2006 06:10 PM |
Traction control actually burns more fuel when it is activated. The smoothest drivers, like Button, don't activate the traction control much when they drive. Plus, everyone has the same advantage, so the best should always rise to the top anyway.
| StuBeck | 12-22-2006 07:10 PM |
I don't think anyone is arguing that, but what I'm saying is TC allows the drivers to make more mistakes then they should be able to. Having the cars slide around more will make the cars look harder to drive and more entertaining.
| artkevin | 12-22-2006 07:24 PM |
[QUOTE=Smart_alek;16418829]Traction control actually burns more fuel when it is activated. The smoothest drivers, like Button, don't activate the traction control much when they drive. Plus, everyone has the same advantage, so the best should always rise to the top anyway.[/QUOTE]
I've heard Klien and Alonso talk about how they only use the TC on launches and at the end of a run or race. The majority of the time its not even there.
Not everyone has the same advantge though. In theory yes, they do, but in truth, Renault's will kick the crap out Super Augri's and the like.
I've heard Klien and Alonso talk about how they only use the TC on launches and at the end of a run or race. The majority of the time its not even there.
Not everyone has the same advantge though. In theory yes, they do, but in truth, Renault's will kick the crap out Super Augri's and the like.
| Ferg | 12-22-2006 08:22 PM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck;16419356]I don't think anyone is arguing that, but what I'm saying is TC allows the drivers to make more mistakes then they should be able to. Having the cars slide around more will make the cars look harder to drive and more entertaining.[/QUOTE]
Forget making them look harder to drive, how about making the actually harder to drive.
I still find it bizarre that a young driver coming through lower formulas has to master things like heel-toe, steering with one hand while shifting (sequential or not), and the delicate application of throttle...when they get to F1, no sweat Jr. the car does most of that for you.
Right now the only thing that really seperates drivers (if we're talking pure driving ability and leave out stuff like race craft and technical aptitude) is how they enter a corner...beyond that it's all the car and how effective it's electronics and aero are.
Throw in stability control and what exactly are we left with?
Brake-turn-mash.
Weeeeee!
Forget making them look harder to drive, how about making the actually harder to drive.
I still find it bizarre that a young driver coming through lower formulas has to master things like heel-toe, steering with one hand while shifting (sequential or not), and the delicate application of throttle...when they get to F1, no sweat Jr. the car does most of that for you.
Right now the only thing that really seperates drivers (if we're talking pure driving ability and leave out stuff like race craft and technical aptitude) is how they enter a corner...beyond that it's all the car and how effective it's electronics and aero are.
Throw in stability control and what exactly are we left with?
Brake-turn-mash.
Weeeeee!
| sirfrankwilliams | 12-22-2006 09:20 PM |
[quote=Ferg;16419952]I still find it bizarre that a young driver coming through lower formulas has to master things like heel-toe, steering with one hand while shifting (sequential or not), and the delicate application of throttle...when they get to F1, no sweat Jr. the car does most of that for you.
[/quote]
Its sort of like writing checks at the super market opposed to swiping an ATM card, or loading reel to reel tapes opposed to a compact disc. In a few more years kids will be asking, "Heel and what?". If soccer moms have thier way, they'll be asking about "Parallel parking".
[/quote]
Its sort of like writing checks at the super market opposed to swiping an ATM card, or loading reel to reel tapes opposed to a compact disc. In a few more years kids will be asking, "Heel and what?". If soccer moms have thier way, they'll be asking about "Parallel parking".
| artkevin | 12-23-2006 10:51 AM |
[B]Toro Rosso tried to get Montoya[/B]
By Jonathan Noble Saturday, December 23rd 2006, 12:41 GMT
Juan Pablo MontoyaScuderia Toro Rosso sounded out Juan Pablo Montoya about returning to Formula One with them in the immediate aftermath of his defection to NASCAR, autosport.com has learned.
Montoya surprised the F1 world by turning his back on the sport and signing for Chip Ganassi Racing's NASCAR operation in June.
Sources have revealed that Toro Rosso chiefs were prompted to contact Montoya and enquire about whether he was interested in changing his mind and returning to Grand Prix racing with them in 2007.
It is understood that team principal Franz Tost persuaded team owner Gerhard Berger that Montoya was worth pursuing, although in the end the matter was quickly dropped when the Colombian made it clear to Tost that he was fully committed to NASCAR.
One source said: "Yes, he got a call from Toro Rosso, but at the moment he's like a kid in a candy store. Everything over here in NASCAR is centred around him and all they want him to do is drive."
By Jonathan Noble Saturday, December 23rd 2006, 12:41 GMT
Juan Pablo MontoyaScuderia Toro Rosso sounded out Juan Pablo Montoya about returning to Formula One with them in the immediate aftermath of his defection to NASCAR, autosport.com has learned.
Montoya surprised the F1 world by turning his back on the sport and signing for Chip Ganassi Racing's NASCAR operation in June.
Sources have revealed that Toro Rosso chiefs were prompted to contact Montoya and enquire about whether he was interested in changing his mind and returning to Grand Prix racing with them in 2007.
It is understood that team principal Franz Tost persuaded team owner Gerhard Berger that Montoya was worth pursuing, although in the end the matter was quickly dropped when the Colombian made it clear to Tost that he was fully committed to NASCAR.
One source said: "Yes, he got a call from Toro Rosso, but at the moment he's like a kid in a candy store. Everything over here in NASCAR is centred around him and all they want him to do is drive."
| StuBeck | 12-23-2006 11:02 AM |
[QUOTE=Ferg;16419952]Forget making them look harder to drive, how about making the actually harder to drive.
I still find it bizarre that a young driver coming through lower formulas has to master things like heel-toe, steering with one hand while shifting (sequential or not), and the delicate application of throttle...when they get to F1, no sweat Jr. the car does most of that for you.
Right now the only thing that really seperates drivers (if we're talking pure driving ability and leave out stuff like race craft and technical aptitude) is how they enter a corner...beyond that it's all the car and how effective it's electronics and aero are.
Throw in stability control and what exactly are we left with?
Brake-turn-mash.
Weeeeee![/QUOTE]
Yea, it is weird. The cars are too advanced to go back to manual shifts, but it does seem awkward how stuff like double clutching is required on every upshift and downshift in some of these series, but then in F1 all it require is a ton of revs to get going.
Midcorner still has a lot to do with the speed, but corner exit is completely worthless now. That is what made Montoya spin in 03 at Australia. The car simply didn't react the way it had every lap before that because they just lean on the TC on exit.
TC isn't as important this year because of the lack of horsepower, better tyres and same amount of downforce. Take away a lot of the grip (which is happening next year) and the TC is going to be hit a lot more, which is good. With TC out in 08 (I hope this is still the plan) I really don't see a reason to bring stability control in, at that point they should make two F1's. One with drivers and one without.
I also don't see how making them look harder to drive is different from making them harder to drive. Remove TC will make the cars harder to drive and make them look harder, with the cars slidding around and stuff.
I still find it bizarre that a young driver coming through lower formulas has to master things like heel-toe, steering with one hand while shifting (sequential or not), and the delicate application of throttle...when they get to F1, no sweat Jr. the car does most of that for you.
Right now the only thing that really seperates drivers (if we're talking pure driving ability and leave out stuff like race craft and technical aptitude) is how they enter a corner...beyond that it's all the car and how effective it's electronics and aero are.
Throw in stability control and what exactly are we left with?
Brake-turn-mash.
Weeeeee![/QUOTE]
Yea, it is weird. The cars are too advanced to go back to manual shifts, but it does seem awkward how stuff like double clutching is required on every upshift and downshift in some of these series, but then in F1 all it require is a ton of revs to get going.
Midcorner still has a lot to do with the speed, but corner exit is completely worthless now. That is what made Montoya spin in 03 at Australia. The car simply didn't react the way it had every lap before that because they just lean on the TC on exit.
TC isn't as important this year because of the lack of horsepower, better tyres and same amount of downforce. Take away a lot of the grip (which is happening next year) and the TC is going to be hit a lot more, which is good. With TC out in 08 (I hope this is still the plan) I really don't see a reason to bring stability control in, at that point they should make two F1's. One with drivers and one without.
I also don't see how making them look harder to drive is different from making them harder to drive. Remove TC will make the cars harder to drive and make them look harder, with the cars slidding around and stuff.
| StuBeck | 12-23-2006 11:03 AM |
This is what is making me nervous about Speed's drive for next year. Monterio is apparently going to make an annoucement soon, and its clear that STR doesn't really care about either of their drivers.
| Ferg | 12-23-2006 11:23 AM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck;16423611]I also don't see how making them look harder to drive is different from making them harder to drive.[/QUOTE]
I was just ribbing you a bit Stu (have you noticed that you're so used to typing "STi" that you sometimes type "STu"? Or is that just me?) and I hope your right about stability control not making it onto the cars, I really do.
:D
I'm not suprised Toro Rosso called Montoya, Berger has always been a fan IIRC. I bet they have to call every available driver, which honestly would take what, ten minutes...
"Hey Michael, sorry to bother you at home and all. Listen I know you're calling it quits but, and I just want to put this out there you know, have you considered what a challange it would be to say, oh I don't know, go back to your roots and drive for a team with absolutely no hope of ever winning a race? No? You sure? Ok then, just checking."
I was just ribbing you a bit Stu (have you noticed that you're so used to typing "STi" that you sometimes type "STu"? Or is that just me?) and I hope your right about stability control not making it onto the cars, I really do.
:D
I'm not suprised Toro Rosso called Montoya, Berger has always been a fan IIRC. I bet they have to call every available driver, which honestly would take what, ten minutes...
"Hey Michael, sorry to bother you at home and all. Listen I know you're calling it quits but, and I just want to put this out there you know, have you considered what a challange it would be to say, oh I don't know, go back to your roots and drive for a team with absolutely no hope of ever winning a race? No? You sure? Ok then, just checking."
| artkevin | 12-23-2006 12:54 PM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck;16423618]This is what is making me nervous about Speed's drive for next year. Monterio is apparently going to make an annoucement soon, and its clear that STR doesn't really care about either of their drivers.[/QUOTE]
Berger has said he is happy with both the drivers he has but he sure does seem to be shopping.
The strangest thing about RBR and STR is that Red Bull has a HUGE driver program but they keep going outside of it to get their drivers. DC and Webber had nothing to do with Red Bull. Bourdais and Tiago don't either but Vettel does and he drivers for a rival team.
Berger has said he is happy with both the drivers he has but he sure does seem to be shopping.
The strangest thing about RBR and STR is that Red Bull has a HUGE driver program but they keep going outside of it to get their drivers. DC and Webber had nothing to do with Red Bull. Bourdais and Tiago don't either but Vettel does and he drivers for a rival team.
| ptclaus98 | 12-23-2006 05:56 PM |
From UpdateF1:
[QUOTE]Dec.7 (GMM) Just as a fascinating new rumour hits the airwaves, McLaren has left the door open for retired double world champion Mika Hakkinen to test again for the Woking team.
In the wake of the 38-year-old's out-of-the-blue test at Barcelona last week, the newspaper 'Turun Sanomat' claimed this week that Gerhard Berger may have recently offered Hakkinen a seat at his Toro Rosso team in 2007.
Backing up the Finnish daily's assertion is the fact that neither 2006 STR pilot, Vitantonio Liuzzi or Scott Speed, were listed on the FIA's newly-published official entry list for 2007.
McLaren's Martin Whitmarsh told Reuters at Woking on Wednesday: "If Mika came and said 'Actually, I wouldn't mind every six months having another go (in the car)', I think we'd take it seriously."
The Mercedes-powered team's managing director admitted that, with Hakkinen yet to pen a new DTM contract, he is weighing up his options for the future.
Whitmarsh added: "I don't know, and I don't think today that Mika knows where he's going to go."[/QUOTE]
:huh:
[QUOTE]Dec.7 (GMM) Just as a fascinating new rumour hits the airwaves, McLaren has left the door open for retired double world champion Mika Hakkinen to test again for the Woking team.
In the wake of the 38-year-old's out-of-the-blue test at Barcelona last week, the newspaper 'Turun Sanomat' claimed this week that Gerhard Berger may have recently offered Hakkinen a seat at his Toro Rosso team in 2007.
Backing up the Finnish daily's assertion is the fact that neither 2006 STR pilot, Vitantonio Liuzzi or Scott Speed, were listed on the FIA's newly-published official entry list for 2007.
McLaren's Martin Whitmarsh told Reuters at Woking on Wednesday: "If Mika came and said 'Actually, I wouldn't mind every six months having another go (in the car)', I think we'd take it seriously."
The Mercedes-powered team's managing director admitted that, with Hakkinen yet to pen a new DTM contract, he is weighing up his options for the future.
Whitmarsh added: "I don't know, and I don't think today that Mika knows where he's going to go."[/QUOTE]
:huh:
| artkevin | 12-23-2006 06:00 PM |
Holly crap. What did Scott and Vit do to piss off Berger so much that their seats are being offered to 8 different people?!?!
| KAX | 12-23-2006 06:47 PM |
most of which have retired or left the sport as well.
| StuBeck | 12-23-2006 06:51 PM |
[QUOTE=Ferg;16423738]I was just ribbing you a bit Stu (have you noticed that you're so used to typing "STi" that you sometimes type "STu"? Or is that just me?) and I hope your right about stability control not making it onto the cars, I really do.
:D
I'm not suprised Toro Rosso called Montoya, Berger has always been a fan IIRC. I bet they have to call every available driver, which honestly would take what, ten minutes...
"Hey Michael, sorry to bother you at home and all. Listen I know you're calling it quits but, and I just want to put this out there you know, have you considered what a challange it would be to say, oh I don't know, go back to your roots and drive for a team with absolutely no hope of ever winning a race? No? You sure? Ok then, just checking."[/QUOTE]
Haha, I don't think I've ever written STU, but I do want to run in the STU class in SCCA Solo II before I leave, even if my car has no mods to it.
:D
I'm not suprised Toro Rosso called Montoya, Berger has always been a fan IIRC. I bet they have to call every available driver, which honestly would take what, ten minutes...
"Hey Michael, sorry to bother you at home and all. Listen I know you're calling it quits but, and I just want to put this out there you know, have you considered what a challange it would be to say, oh I don't know, go back to your roots and drive for a team with absolutely no hope of ever winning a race? No? You sure? Ok then, just checking."[/QUOTE]
Haha, I don't think I've ever written STU, but I do want to run in the STU class in SCCA Solo II before I leave, even if my car has no mods to it.
| StuBeck | 12-23-2006 06:58 PM |
[QUOTE=artkevin;16424294]Berger has said he is happy with both the drivers he has but he sure does seem to be shopping.
The strangest thing about RBR and STR is that Red Bull has a HUGE driver program but they keep going outside of it to get their drivers. DC and Webber had nothing to do with Red Bull. Bourdais and Tiago don't either but Vettel does and he drivers for a rival team.[/QUOTE]
Yea, thats the thing which doesn't make sense. I know they need money, but at some point you need to **** or get off the pot. Red Bull doesn't seem to be very good with their drivers. The whole Liuzzi/Klien deal was poor planning, and this seems to be going just as well. If something doesn't happen by the end of the first week of January I'll have lost a lot of respect for them.
The strangest thing about RBR and STR is that Red Bull has a HUGE driver program but they keep going outside of it to get their drivers. DC and Webber had nothing to do with Red Bull. Bourdais and Tiago don't either but Vettel does and he drivers for a rival team.[/QUOTE]
Yea, thats the thing which doesn't make sense. I know they need money, but at some point you need to **** or get off the pot. Red Bull doesn't seem to be very good with their drivers. The whole Liuzzi/Klien deal was poor planning, and this seems to be going just as well. If something doesn't happen by the end of the first week of January I'll have lost a lot of respect for them.
| bitterWRX | 12-23-2006 07:19 PM |
As much as they need the money, I think what they want more are results. That's why I think they've been trying to hit up the big names in business. They want to be a force that people recognize and not just another grid filler.
| StuBeck | 12-23-2006 07:59 PM |
Bourdais and Montoya make sense, but Montiero? Not really. What Berger has said he's looking for is a driver as good as they have who has money.
| Ferg | 12-23-2006 08:06 PM |
Merry Xmas true believers
[IMG]http://www.pbase.com/image/72047604/original.jpg[/IMG]
:D
[IMG]http://www.pbase.com/image/72047604/original.jpg[/IMG]
:D
| KAX | 12-23-2006 08:09 PM |
lol, happy mid-season rule changes!
| bitterWRX | 12-23-2006 09:08 PM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck;16426965]Bourdais and Montoya make sense, but Montiero? Not really. What Berger has said he's looking for is a driver as good as they have who has money.[/QUOTE]
Maybe Montiero because he has 6 more championship points than the two STR drivers combined. :D
Maybe Montiero because he has 6 more championship points than the two STR drivers combined. :D
| StuBeck | 12-23-2006 09:23 PM |
HAha, well in Liuzzi and Speed's defense, 6 of those points were in Indy at the nonrace race.
| John__Gotti | 12-23-2006 10:48 PM |
Where does Montiero get all of his finacial backing from.
| Ferg | 12-24-2006 01:25 AM |
Checking his website he seems to have a pretty healthy list of sponsors, although honestly not that much more than any other F1 driver.
[URL=http://www.tiagoracing.com/default.aspx?l=2&go=31]Tiago's website...[/URL]
Maybe he's got Pedro Diniz money and secretly owns a small South American country.
[URL=http://www.tiagoracing.com/default.aspx?l=2&go=31]Tiago's website...[/URL]
Maybe he's got Pedro Diniz money and secretly owns a small South American country.
| nKoan | 12-24-2006 02:28 AM |
[QUOTE=John__Gotti;16427953]Where does Montiero get all of his finacial backing from.[/QUOTE]
Mainly Portuguese companies, but I've also heard some Brazilian companies have expressed interest in him since he speaks Portuguese.
Mainly Portuguese companies, but I've also heard some Brazilian companies have expressed interest in him since he speaks Portuguese.
| Counterfit | 12-24-2006 04:00 AM |
[QUOTE=nKoan;16429190]since he speaks Portuguese.[/QUOTE]
This just in, Ralf Schumacher and Nick Heidfeld speak German! There also have been scattered reports of Kimi R�ikk�nen speaking Finnish. :rolleyes:
This just in, Ralf Schumacher and Nick Heidfeld speak German! There also have been scattered reports of Kimi R�ikk�nen speaking Finnish. :rolleyes:
| StuBeck | 12-24-2006 10:01 AM |
Why you gotta be a d bag?
| Ferg | 12-24-2006 11:42 AM |
Really...
This thread aint about that spanky.
This thread aint about that spanky.
| nKoan | 12-24-2006 02:22 PM |
[QUOTE=Counterfit;16429547]This just in, Ralf Schumacher and Nick Heidfeld speak German! There also have been scattered reports of Kimi R�ikk�nen speaking Finnish. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Very true, but that doesn't help advertisers in Brazil since they don't speak German or Finish there.
Very true, but that doesn't help advertisers in Brazil since they don't speak German or Finish there.
| ptclaus98 | 12-24-2006 02:24 PM |
[QUOTE=nKoan;16431308]Very true, but that doesn't help advertisers in Brazil since they don't speak German or Finish there.[/QUOTE]
YEE!!!
:lol:
YEE!!!
:lol:
| XenoWolf | 12-24-2006 02:44 PM |
So I have a good shot at getting American F1 sponsors now, since I speak English?
:banana:
:banana:
| nKoan | 12-24-2006 02:48 PM |
American ... F1 Sponsors?
Isn't that kind of an oxymoron?
Isn't that kind of an oxymoron?
| Counterfit | 12-24-2006 04:58 PM |
[QUOTE=nKoan;16431308]Very true, but that doesn't help advertisers in Brazil since they don't speak German or Finish there.[/QUOTE]
Burned. :o
[quote]American ... F1 Sponsors?
Isn't that kind of an oxymoron?[/quote]
*points at Intel, Budweiser, Acer, Shell, Marlboro, etc.*
Burned. :o
[quote]American ... F1 Sponsors?
Isn't that kind of an oxymoron?[/quote]
*points at Intel, Budweiser, Acer, Shell, Marlboro, etc.*
| ptclaus98 | 12-24-2006 05:40 PM |
[QUOTE=Counterfit;16432281]Burned. :o
*points at Intel, Budweiser, Acer, Shell, Marlboro, etc.*[/QUOTE]
Budweiser?
This ain't NASCAR bitch!
*points at Intel, Budweiser, Acer, Shell, Marlboro, etc.*[/QUOTE]
Budweiser?
This ain't NASCAR bitch!
| Ferg | 12-24-2006 06:16 PM |
Williams has been carrying Budweiser sponsorship on their airbox since about 2001.
On another note, Mr Counterfit should read through last year's F1 thread to see how we play in here. ;)
On another note, Mr Counterfit should read through last year's F1 thread to see how we play in here. ;)
| Ferg | 12-24-2006 06:27 PM |
Forix has the complete drivers list up and running for next season...
[QUOTE]
McLaren Mercedes
1 Fernando Alonso
2 Lewis Hamilton
T Pedro de la Rosa
T Gary Paffett
Renault
3 Giancarlo Fisichella
4 Heikki Kovalainen
T Ricardo Zonta
T Nelsinho Piquet
Ferrari
5 Felipe Massa
6 Kimi R�ikk�nen
T Luca Badoer
T Marc Gen�
Honda
7 Jenson Button
8 Rubens Barrichello
T Christian Klien
T James Rossiter
BMW Sauber
9 Nick Heidfeld
10 Robert Kubica
T Sebastian Vettel
T Timo Glock
Toyota
11 Ralf Schumacher
12 Jarno Trulli
T Franck Montagny
T Kohei Hirate
T Kamui Kobayashi
Red Bull Renault
14 David Coulthard
15 Mark Webber
T Robert Doornbos
Williams Toyota
16 Nico Rosberg
17 Alexander Wurz
T Kazuki Nakajima
T Narain Karthikeyan
Toro Rosso Ferrari
18 Vitantonio Liuzzi*
19 Scott Speed*
Spyker Ferrari
20 Christijan Albers
21 Adrian Sutil
Super Aguri Honda
22 Takuma Sato
23 Anthony Davidson
T Giedo van der Garde
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
McLaren Mercedes
1 Fernando Alonso
2 Lewis Hamilton
T Pedro de la Rosa
T Gary Paffett
Renault
3 Giancarlo Fisichella
4 Heikki Kovalainen
T Ricardo Zonta
T Nelsinho Piquet
Ferrari
5 Felipe Massa
6 Kimi R�ikk�nen
T Luca Badoer
T Marc Gen�
Honda
7 Jenson Button
8 Rubens Barrichello
T Christian Klien
T James Rossiter
BMW Sauber
9 Nick Heidfeld
10 Robert Kubica
T Sebastian Vettel
T Timo Glock
Toyota
11 Ralf Schumacher
12 Jarno Trulli
T Franck Montagny
T Kohei Hirate
T Kamui Kobayashi
Red Bull Renault
14 David Coulthard
15 Mark Webber
T Robert Doornbos
Williams Toyota
16 Nico Rosberg
17 Alexander Wurz
T Kazuki Nakajima
T Narain Karthikeyan
Toro Rosso Ferrari
18 Vitantonio Liuzzi*
19 Scott Speed*
Spyker Ferrari
20 Christijan Albers
21 Adrian Sutil
Super Aguri Honda
22 Takuma Sato
23 Anthony Davidson
T Giedo van der Garde
[/QUOTE]
| bitterWRX | 12-24-2006 08:29 PM |
Something I found interesting today. If you go to the Renault F1 website and go to the [url]http://champion.renaultf1.com[/url] url, and follow it to a synopsis of the "2006 season," they have a photojournal of Renault. But the interesting part is... all the Mild Seven/Team Spirit sponsorship logos have been censored from the car (with the exception of a few picture) and in some cases, the pit crew and Alonso's race suit.
I know that Mild Seven has dropped their sponsorship, so I'm guessing this maybe at the request of the new sponsors (?). In any case, just thought I'd share with you guys.
I know that Mild Seven has dropped their sponsorship, so I'm guessing this maybe at the request of the new sponsors (?). In any case, just thought I'd share with you guys.
| Ferg | 12-24-2006 08:51 PM |
Does the EU's tobaco ban reach all the way to the internets? :confused:
| Cloaked | 12-25-2006 11:15 AM |
If things go according to plan I'll make Imola this season, I made it year before last and it was great. Nothing like seeing a race in person, If you haven't see an F1 race in person and get the chance do it, bring ear plugs. Lewis Hamilton should be fast and up front if his car staying together, anyway I'm sure he'd rather be running with Mecedes rather than Red Bull, or Torro Rosso.
| artkevin | 12-25-2006 12:52 PM |
I think nKoan's point was just fine.
Brazil and Portogal are about 3000 miles apart so a tie is not likely, given that not everyone knows that Brazilians speak Portuguese.
Brazil and Portogal are about 3000 miles apart so a tie is not likely, given that not everyone knows that Brazilians speak Portuguese.
| StuBeck | 12-25-2006 01:14 PM |
I think it was 2003 for Budweiser, but we're just splitting hairs at this point.
Its weird that Renault would do that, but I think it must more be a decision based on the sponsorship going away than anything, or just a "what, we were never sponsored by tobacco, see" deal.
Anyone else get any F1 stuff for xmas/other holiday? I got my usual F1 Racing magazine, the "last" schumi special issue.
Its weird that Renault would do that, but I think it must more be a decision based on the sponsorship going away than anything, or just a "what, we were never sponsored by tobacco, see" deal.
Anyone else get any F1 stuff for xmas/other holiday? I got my usual F1 Racing magazine, the "last" schumi special issue.
| StuBeck | 12-25-2006 02:04 PM |
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvvtxoCcj3w[/url]
Okay, what the hell is Schumacher doing to Massa here? I guess Massa really is the number two driver...if you get what I mean.
Okay, what the hell is Schumacher doing to Massa here? I guess Massa really is the number two driver...if you get what I mean.
| KAX | 12-25-2006 02:09 PM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck;16437771][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvvtxoCcj3w[/url]
Okay, what the hell is Schumacher doing to Massa here? I guess Massa really is the number two driver...if you get what I mean.[/QUOTE]
thats disturbing
no F1 presents for me this year :(
i usually buy that stuff myself, though.
Okay, what the hell is Schumacher doing to Massa here? I guess Massa really is the number two driver...if you get what I mean.[/QUOTE]
thats disturbing
no F1 presents for me this year :(
i usually buy that stuff myself, though.
| ptclaus98 | 12-25-2006 02:33 PM |
[QUOTE=KAX;16437801]thats disturbing
no F1 presents for me this year :(
i usually buy that stuff myself, though.[/QUOTE]
I am counting my Speedcats as that. I swear I'm gonna put some Bridgestone emblems on them and get some sponsor logos on 'em. I think that would be nice.
no F1 presents for me this year :(
i usually buy that stuff myself, though.[/QUOTE]
I am counting my Speedcats as that. I swear I'm gonna put some Bridgestone emblems on them and get some sponsor logos on 'em. I think that would be nice.
| artkevin | 12-25-2006 02:44 PM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck;16437771][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvvtxoCcj3w[/url]
Okay, what the hell is Schumacher doing to Massa here? I guess Massa really is the number two driver...if you get what I mean.[/QUOTE]
I've met Massa in person and he is the smallest-full grown-non-midget man I have ever seen. Schumi barely looks any bigger then him in the clip. Anyone know how tall Here Schumacher is?
Okay, what the hell is Schumacher doing to Massa here? I guess Massa really is the number two driver...if you get what I mean.[/QUOTE]
I've met Massa in person and he is the smallest-full grown-non-midget man I have ever seen. Schumi barely looks any bigger then him in the clip. Anyone know how tall Here Schumacher is?
| artkevin | 12-25-2006 02:45 PM |
[QUOTE=Ferg;16432840]Williams has been carrying Budweiser sponsorship on their airbox since about 2001.
On another note, Mr Counterfit should read through last year's F1 thread to see how we play in here. ;)[/QUOTE]
Thanks to JPM.
On another note, Mr Counterfit should read through last year's F1 thread to see how we play in here. ;)[/QUOTE]
Thanks to JPM.
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét