| artkevin | 10-04-2007 07:37 AM |
[B]Webber blames Hamilton for crash[/B]
04 October 2007
According to Red Bull driver Mark Webber it wasn't Toro Rosso driver Sebastien Vettel who was to blame for the duo to crash into each other at the Japanese Grand Prix. Webber believes that when Lewis Hamilton wouldn't have done what he did nothing would have happened.
Click here
When Alonso crashed out of Sunday's Japanese Grand Prix the safety car came out. All of a sudden fans saw Sebastien Vettel crash into the back of Mark Webber while everyone was supposed to drive slow and careful when the safety car is out. Mark Webber blames Lewis Hamilton for his crash as, according to Webber, the Briton went extremely slow on purpose.
"He did a **** job really behind the safety car," Webber said in Shanghai on Thursday. "During the drivers briefing before the race we even talked about such situations and Lewis promised he would keep the same speed at all time behind the safety car. But during the race he never did."
A Japanese fan posted a video online of the situation behind the safety car. Watch the video.
I still don't see how on earth that crash was LH's fault even after watching the video again. Vettel ran into the back of Webber so VETTEL is at fault.
04 October 2007
According to Red Bull driver Mark Webber it wasn't Toro Rosso driver Sebastien Vettel who was to blame for the duo to crash into each other at the Japanese Grand Prix. Webber believes that when Lewis Hamilton wouldn't have done what he did nothing would have happened.
Click here
When Alonso crashed out of Sunday's Japanese Grand Prix the safety car came out. All of a sudden fans saw Sebastien Vettel crash into the back of Mark Webber while everyone was supposed to drive slow and careful when the safety car is out. Mark Webber blames Lewis Hamilton for his crash as, according to Webber, the Briton went extremely slow on purpose.
"He did a **** job really behind the safety car," Webber said in Shanghai on Thursday. "During the drivers briefing before the race we even talked about such situations and Lewis promised he would keep the same speed at all time behind the safety car. But during the race he never did."
A Japanese fan posted a video online of the situation behind the safety car. Watch the video.
I still don't see how on earth that crash was LH's fault even after watching the video again. Vettel ran into the back of Webber so VETTEL is at fault.
| chkltcow | 10-04-2007 07:46 AM |
[QUOTE=artkevin;19585210]
I still don't see how on earth that crash was LH's fault even after watching the video again. Vettel ran into the back of Webber so VETTEL is at fault.[/QUOTE]
This is the first year I've really gotten into F1, and I've already learned something...
[B]EVERYTHING[/B] is Lewis Hamilton's fault, in some way or another. The crash, that was Lewis' fault. Getting run off the road in Spa... Lewis' fault, shouldn't have taken that line. The pits in Hungary, Lewis' fault. The crusades.. the inquisition... the sins of the Church.... all Lewis' fault. Hell, even the meteor that killed the dinosaurs.... THAT's his fault too!
At least that's the idea I get from reading the Speed boards, home of the most viciously biased fans I've ever seen anywhere.
I still don't see how on earth that crash was LH's fault even after watching the video again. Vettel ran into the back of Webber so VETTEL is at fault.[/QUOTE]
This is the first year I've really gotten into F1, and I've already learned something...
[B]EVERYTHING[/B] is Lewis Hamilton's fault, in some way or another. The crash, that was Lewis' fault. Getting run off the road in Spa... Lewis' fault, shouldn't have taken that line. The pits in Hungary, Lewis' fault. The crusades.. the inquisition... the sins of the Church.... all Lewis' fault. Hell, even the meteor that killed the dinosaurs.... THAT's his fault too!
At least that's the idea I get from reading the Speed boards, home of the most viciously biased fans I've ever seen anywhere.
| Dogbert2 | 10-04-2007 09:43 AM |
Don't forget high gas prices! I blame Hamilton for that too!
| TimStevens | 10-04-2007 09:44 AM |
Anyone got a link to the video? I found a few copies of it in YouTube but they've all been removed ...
| chkltcow | 10-04-2007 10:39 AM |
Wait... what?
How the **** can Formula One Management order a DMCA takedown on a video that THEY DID NOT SHOOT and therefore [B]DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM![/B]
I had posted it in the other thread. It was an amateur video shot from the stands of the incident. Bernie's nazis nor Max's fascists should have any claim to the copyright of that video, and cannot order a takedown of it, am I right?
Edit: Found one.
[url]http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c291/milospin/?action=view¤t=WebVetHam.flv[/url]
How the **** can Formula One Management order a DMCA takedown on a video that THEY DID NOT SHOOT and therefore [B]DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM![/B]
I had posted it in the other thread. It was an amateur video shot from the stands of the incident. Bernie's nazis nor Max's fascists should have any claim to the copyright of that video, and cannot order a takedown of it, am I right?
Edit: Found one.
[url]http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c291/milospin/?action=view¤t=WebVetHam.flv[/url]
| Bottom Feeder | 10-04-2007 10:57 AM |
Damn. I don't know if the angle the video was shot makes it seem worse that it was, but that clip makes Hamilton look really bad. WTF was he doing way out there?
| Snowphun | 10-04-2007 11:46 AM |
[QUOTE=Bottom Feeder;19586761]WTF was he doing way out there?[/QUOTE]
Why can't he be out there? He's on track. He sped up, almost overtook the pace car then got hard on the brakes; how is any of this behavior unusual or new for F1 safety car laps? Webber could have gone past him if he needed to, it happens.
You would think after the MS/JPM incident in Monacco they would have cleared up the rules on this. But you have to expect drivers to try and keep tires and brakes up to temp.
Why can't he be out there? He's on track. He sped up, almost overtook the pace car then got hard on the brakes; how is any of this behavior unusual or new for F1 safety car laps? Webber could have gone past him if he needed to, it happens.
You would think after the MS/JPM incident in Monacco they would have cleared up the rules on this. But you have to expect drivers to try and keep tires and brakes up to temp.
| ptclaus98 | 10-04-2007 12:01 PM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck;19584645]I don't agree. You can't be nose to tail through Eau Rouge and he would have lost time, he did the best he could in the split second he had the chance.
[/QUOTE]
You sure as hell can't go side by side through it either, but he didn't care.
[/QUOTE]
You sure as hell can't go side by side through it either, but he didn't care.
| waktasz | 10-04-2007 12:04 PM |
I don't see anything wrong with that video. It's not as if Hamilton brake checked the car behind him...Webber didn't need to slow down that harshly and Vettle wasn't paying attention.
| KevinD | 10-04-2007 01:48 PM |
Article 40.10 of the F1 Sporting Regulations states: "The safety car shall be used at least until the leader is behind it and all remaining cars are lined up behind him. Once behind the safety car, the race leader must keep within 5 car lengths of it."
if that is true, then absolutely Hamilton broke the rules. if you look at the video, there is clearly >5 car lengths between him and the pace car. if you check the frames at 10seconds you can see hamiltons car on the far right of the picture, and the pace car is off the screen on the left. with both vittel and webber between them and plenty of space for 4 more cars.
if that is true, then absolutely Hamilton broke the rules. if you look at the video, there is clearly >5 car lengths between him and the pace car. if you check the frames at 10seconds you can see hamiltons car on the far right of the picture, and the pace car is off the screen on the left. with both vittel and webber between them and plenty of space for 4 more cars.
| waktasz | 10-04-2007 01:56 PM |
You're right, maybe he realized he got too close and decided to back off a little. Webber was closer than 5 cars to the safety car as well.
| TimStevens | 10-04-2007 02:19 PM |
It's possible he got out there and hydroplaned, but who knows.
I don't see how you can say he caused the crash, but yes, he should have been following closer.
I don't see how you can say he caused the crash, but yes, he should have been following closer.
| chkltcow | 10-04-2007 02:52 PM |
[QUOTE=TimStevens;19589572]It's possible he got out there and hydroplaned, but who knows.
[B]I don't see how you can say he caused the crash[/B], but yes, he should have been following closer.[/QUOTE]
See post 2582 for explanation.
[B]I don't see how you can say he caused the crash[/B], but yes, he should have been following closer.[/QUOTE]
See post 2582 for explanation.
| TimStevens | 10-04-2007 03:23 PM |
Damnit, I knew he was behind my male pattern baldness ...
| Draken | 10-04-2007 04:07 PM |
I don't think Lewis was at fault, but he sure as hell was driving stupid behind the pace car, even during the first dozen laps, and helped to contrinute to it. There were numerous times where he would fall way behind the pace car, then speed up on it's tail, then slow way down. This kept generating the usual accordian effent behind him. Early in the race, Alonso nearly passed him while following the pace car because Lweis kept doing this.
What was funny, was the day before, Friday, we had an event at Thunderhill. The lead Corvette driver was acting as pace car, and did a terrible job. So much so, our first start got waved off. On the second pace lap, he just hauled off at WOT from turn 6 to 10, and then slowed between 13 and 14. So dramatically, that a Mustang and two other cars, who were hauling ass to catch up, had to drive off line on the grass to avoid a cluster as the field went from 80mph to a stand still at the crest of the last straight under the wlak path. And this is in a low-key race event with vintage rules, with perfect visibility in 75 degree sunny conditions!
Luckily, I was far enough back to avoid the mishap. But it made me realize how screwed up a pack of 20 cars can get when the lead driver is being a douche. Now, make the problem even worse by taking away say 50% of your vision due to crappy whether, and something like this is sure to happen.
Chris H.
What was funny, was the day before, Friday, we had an event at Thunderhill. The lead Corvette driver was acting as pace car, and did a terrible job. So much so, our first start got waved off. On the second pace lap, he just hauled off at WOT from turn 6 to 10, and then slowed between 13 and 14. So dramatically, that a Mustang and two other cars, who were hauling ass to catch up, had to drive off line on the grass to avoid a cluster as the field went from 80mph to a stand still at the crest of the last straight under the wlak path. And this is in a low-key race event with vintage rules, with perfect visibility in 75 degree sunny conditions!
Luckily, I was far enough back to avoid the mishap. But it made me realize how screwed up a pack of 20 cars can get when the lead driver is being a douche. Now, make the problem even worse by taking away say 50% of your vision due to crappy whether, and something like this is sure to happen.
Chris H.
| KAX | 10-04-2007 04:24 PM |
[QUOTE=chkltcow;19586552]Wait... what?
How the **** can Formula One Management order a DMCA takedown on a video that THEY DID NOT SHOOT and therefore [B]DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM![/B]
I had posted it in the other thread. It was an amateur video shot from the stands of the incident. Bernie's nazis nor Max's fascists should have any claim to the copyright of that video, and cannot order a takedown of it, am I right?
Edit: Found one.
[url]http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c291/milospin/?action=view¤t=WebVetHam.flv[/url][/QUOTE]
because its a video of F1 and whoever shot the video does not have the rights to broadcast F1 footage. Try videotaping an NFL event and playing it online. NFL would do the same thing.
How the **** can Formula One Management order a DMCA takedown on a video that THEY DID NOT SHOOT and therefore [B]DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM![/B]
I had posted it in the other thread. It was an amateur video shot from the stands of the incident. Bernie's nazis nor Max's fascists should have any claim to the copyright of that video, and cannot order a takedown of it, am I right?
Edit: Found one.
[url]http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c291/milospin/?action=view¤t=WebVetHam.flv[/url][/QUOTE]
because its a video of F1 and whoever shot the video does not have the rights to broadcast F1 footage. Try videotaping an NFL event and playing it online. NFL would do the same thing.
| chkltcow | 10-04-2007 04:33 PM |
[QUOTE=KAX;19591327]because its a video of F1 and whoever shot the video does not have the rights to broadcast F1 footage. Try videotaping an NFL event and playing it online. NFL would do the same thing.[/QUOTE]
So our very own StuBeck is a pirate for posting his personal pictures from Spa and Indy on his site? YARRRRRR!!
If you don't want cameras, stop them at the gate. Don't try to say that video/photos I shot belong to you because they were at your even though.
So our very own StuBeck is a pirate for posting his personal pictures from Spa and Indy on his site? YARRRRRR!!
If you don't want cameras, stop them at the gate. Don't try to say that video/photos I shot belong to you because they were at your even though.
| bastich | 10-04-2007 09:25 PM |
[QUOTE=chkltcow;19591421]So our very own StuBeck is a pirate for posting his personal pictures from Spa and Indy on his site? YARRRRRR!!
If you don't want cameras, stop them at the gate. Don't try to say that video/photos I shot belong to you because they were at your even though.[/QUOTE]
You Tube videos get shut down all the time. Have your lawyer call their lawyers and see if they can work something out.
If you don't want cameras, stop them at the gate. Don't try to say that video/photos I shot belong to you because they were at your even though.[/QUOTE]
You Tube videos get shut down all the time. Have your lawyer call their lawyers and see if they can work something out.
| chkltcow | 10-04-2007 10:40 PM |
[QUOTE=bastich;19594747]You Tube videos get shut down all the time. Have your lawyer call their lawyers and see if they can work something out.[/QUOTE]
It wasn't my video, so I can't file a DMCA counter-claim or anything.
I just think it's ridiculous that FOM can claim copyright on works they didn't create. It's not like the guy sold the video for personal gain.. it was just posted on the internet for free.
Personally, I think the FIA/FOM just likes to try to sweep everything under the rug. Any videos of "controversial" F1 events are removed in a ****ing heartbeat. Yet you can go to YouTube, search for "F1" and find a ton of stuff that hasn't been taken down. The Monza move... gone.... Spa... gone... this... gone. "Highlights"... still up. And these are official FOM things from Speed/ITV/etc... not amateur video.
It wasn't my video, so I can't file a DMCA counter-claim or anything.
I just think it's ridiculous that FOM can claim copyright on works they didn't create. It's not like the guy sold the video for personal gain.. it was just posted on the internet for free.
Personally, I think the FIA/FOM just likes to try to sweep everything under the rug. Any videos of "controversial" F1 events are removed in a ****ing heartbeat. Yet you can go to YouTube, search for "F1" and find a ton of stuff that hasn't been taken down. The Monza move... gone.... Spa... gone... this... gone. "Highlights"... still up. And these are official FOM things from Speed/ITV/etc... not amateur video.
| parker/slc/gc8fan | 10-04-2007 11:28 PM |
No kidding.
I tried to find the video of Kimi Drinking and chilling out in the Monaco harbor after he crashed out.
GONE.
Isn't it amazing how much F1 has become a business. what happened to the racing enthusiasm? Oh wait, it declined appeal. ;)
I tried to find the video of Kimi Drinking and chilling out in the Monaco harbor after he crashed out.
GONE.
Isn't it amazing how much F1 has become a business. what happened to the racing enthusiasm? Oh wait, it declined appeal. ;)
| TheRipler | 10-04-2007 11:37 PM |
So, where is the Chinese GP thread? Are we boycotting because of their foreign policy? :confused:
| bastich | 10-04-2007 11:52 PM |
Going back to Spa..
watching this video makes me wonder what all the fuss was about...
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx6KWtbZlOs&mode=related&search=[/url]
if you watch massa and raikonnen you notice that their cars were side by side going into that first curve also, somehow there was a lot less drama though because the guy that didnt have position backed off instead of trying to force his way through.
watching this video makes me wonder what all the fuss was about...
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx6KWtbZlOs&mode=related&search=[/url]
if you watch massa and raikonnen you notice that their cars were side by side going into that first curve also, somehow there was a lot less drama though because the guy that didnt have position backed off instead of trying to force his way through.
| artkevin | 10-05-2007 12:31 AM |
Man I LOVE the way Alonso warms his tires. So agressive and fluid.
| KAX | 10-05-2007 02:10 AM |
[QUOTE=chkltcow;19591421]So our very own StuBeck is a pirate for posting his personal pictures from Spa and Indy on his site? YARRRRRR!!
If you don't want cameras, stop them at the gate. Don't try to say that video/photos I shot belong to you because they were at your even though.[/QUOTE]
pretty much, yeh. They dont stop the cameras at the gate because its ok for personal use. But when publicly broadcasted, FOM has the right to take it down. Of course they get rid of anything the taints their name and leave anything that makes it look good, its all publicity and bad publicity gets swept under the rug and good publicity is left out for everyone to see.
If you don't want cameras, stop them at the gate. Don't try to say that video/photos I shot belong to you because they were at your even though.[/QUOTE]
pretty much, yeh. They dont stop the cameras at the gate because its ok for personal use. But when publicly broadcasted, FOM has the right to take it down. Of course they get rid of anything the taints their name and leave anything that makes it look good, its all publicity and bad publicity gets swept under the rug and good publicity is left out for everyone to see.
| StuBeck | 10-05-2007 06:31 AM |
[QUOTE=ptclaus98;19587562]You sure as hell can't go side by side through it either, but he didn't care.[/QUOTE]
How did he not care? He pulled back so he didn't go side by side through it.
How did he not care? He pulled back so he didn't go side by side through it.
| StuBeck | 10-05-2007 11:53 AM |
[quote=Autosport]Speed to race in ARCA in 2008
By Glenn Freeman Friday, October 5th 2007, 08:49 GMT
Red Bull have confirmed that Scott Speed will race in the ARCA RE/MAX Series in 2008 with Eddie Sharp Racing.
The American driver, who will make his ARCA race debut this weekend at Talladega, could also make occasional appearances in NASCAR's more prominent championships during the year.
"I'm really excited to race ARCA because it's an opportunity to learn a completely new animal for me - stock car racing - without being put under a huge spotlight," said the 24-year-old.
"One of the great things about ARCA is that you have a whole field full of young guys like me just trying to make a name in this sport. It's hard to judge the level of competition I'll face next year, but that's just part of the fun."
Team Red Bull's competition vice president Gunther Steiner added that while Red Bull were happy for Speed to pursue a career in stock cars, they were keen to see him work his way through the ranks, rather than tackle the Nextel Cup immediately.
"Red Bull started investing in Scott's racing career a long time ago, so when he wanted the chance to drive stock cars, we wanted to help integrate him into the sport by earning his way up through the ranks," said Steiner.
"Scott's a very technical driver with a lot of raw talent. He'll be facing a lot of new challenges next year, but there's no doubt that he has the skills to someday make it to the highest level in NASCAR."
Speed qualified seventh at Talladega on Thursday night, just one place behind 2007 IndyCar Series champion Dario Franchitti, who will make his stock car debut in the same race.[/quote]
Looks like RB is doing the smart thing and not throwing him into nextel cup immediately like they did with AJ Almendinger. Hopefully he'll move up somewhat quickly so he can be in NNC in 09, but its a good move either way.
By Glenn Freeman Friday, October 5th 2007, 08:49 GMT
Red Bull have confirmed that Scott Speed will race in the ARCA RE/MAX Series in 2008 with Eddie Sharp Racing.
The American driver, who will make his ARCA race debut this weekend at Talladega, could also make occasional appearances in NASCAR's more prominent championships during the year.
"I'm really excited to race ARCA because it's an opportunity to learn a completely new animal for me - stock car racing - without being put under a huge spotlight," said the 24-year-old.
"One of the great things about ARCA is that you have a whole field full of young guys like me just trying to make a name in this sport. It's hard to judge the level of competition I'll face next year, but that's just part of the fun."
Team Red Bull's competition vice president Gunther Steiner added that while Red Bull were happy for Speed to pursue a career in stock cars, they were keen to see him work his way through the ranks, rather than tackle the Nextel Cup immediately.
"Red Bull started investing in Scott's racing career a long time ago, so when he wanted the chance to drive stock cars, we wanted to help integrate him into the sport by earning his way up through the ranks," said Steiner.
"Scott's a very technical driver with a lot of raw talent. He'll be facing a lot of new challenges next year, but there's no doubt that he has the skills to someday make it to the highest level in NASCAR."
Speed qualified seventh at Talladega on Thursday night, just one place behind 2007 IndyCar Series champion Dario Franchitti, who will make his stock car debut in the same race.[/quote]
Looks like RB is doing the smart thing and not throwing him into nextel cup immediately like they did with AJ Almendinger. Hopefully he'll move up somewhat quickly so he can be in NNC in 09, but its a good move either way.
| Patrick L | 10-05-2007 01:21 PM |
Looks like Hamilton will get off scott free.:mad: I think they should have given him a penalty to set an example. What he did was stupid and was made worse the fact that is was very wet. About the same stupid move Shumi made a while back at Monaco in the tunnel.
From F1-live
[quote]
Lewis Hamilton has escaped penalty after FIA stewards probed his alleged erratic driving whilst leading the field behind the safety car at Fuji Speedway a week ago.
After hours of deliberation, stewards finally ruled that the 22-year-old championship leader, who earlier on Friday issued a veiled threat to quit Formula One over the controversy, was not to blame for the collision between Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel.
In the light of amateur video footage that was posted on YouTube, the Briton had been facing a ten-position grid penalty for Sunday's Chinese Grand Prix, or even a points deduction.
Toro Rosso's Vettel, however, has had his ten-position penalty reduced to a formal reprimand, the stewards said.
Following that meeting, the stewards stated: "Having heard the explanation of all concerned and viewed both the original film of the incident which was available to stewards at Fuji as well as the new film, what has become apparent is the view clearly expressed by all drivers and team managers alike that the conditions at Fuji were exceptionally bad and worse than those experienced when the race starts behind the safety car."
"Because of those views, the stewards accept that it may be inappropriate to impose the penalty normally applied for an offence such as this."
"In the circumstances the stewards will reduce the penalty imposed on Vettel to a reprimand."
"The involvement of Lewis Hamilton in this incident has also been considered in the light of evidence given by him, his team manager and in particular all other parties present and no penalty is imposed upon him."[/quote]
From F1-live
[quote]
Lewis Hamilton has escaped penalty after FIA stewards probed his alleged erratic driving whilst leading the field behind the safety car at Fuji Speedway a week ago.
After hours of deliberation, stewards finally ruled that the 22-year-old championship leader, who earlier on Friday issued a veiled threat to quit Formula One over the controversy, was not to blame for the collision between Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel.
In the light of amateur video footage that was posted on YouTube, the Briton had been facing a ten-position grid penalty for Sunday's Chinese Grand Prix, or even a points deduction.
Toro Rosso's Vettel, however, has had his ten-position penalty reduced to a formal reprimand, the stewards said.
Following that meeting, the stewards stated: "Having heard the explanation of all concerned and viewed both the original film of the incident which was available to stewards at Fuji as well as the new film, what has become apparent is the view clearly expressed by all drivers and team managers alike that the conditions at Fuji were exceptionally bad and worse than those experienced when the race starts behind the safety car."
"Because of those views, the stewards accept that it may be inappropriate to impose the penalty normally applied for an offence such as this."
"In the circumstances the stewards will reduce the penalty imposed on Vettel to a reprimand."
"The involvement of Lewis Hamilton in this incident has also been considered in the light of evidence given by him, his team manager and in particular all other parties present and no penalty is imposed upon him."[/quote]
| TimStevens | 10-05-2007 01:36 PM |
Can you conclusively say he didn't hydroplane, causing him to run wide and slow?
| artkevin | 10-05-2007 02:00 PM |
[QUOTE=Patrick L;19601224]Looks like Hamilton will get off scott free.:mad: I think they should have given him a penalty to set an example. What he did was stupid and was made worse the fact that is was very wet. About the same stupid move Shumi made a while back at Monaco in the tunnel.
From F1-live[/QUOTE]
I couldn't disagree with you more. The wreck was Vettel's fault, not Hamilton's. Warming your tires and brakes behind the safety car is common practice.
What type of penalty would you advise?
From F1-live[/QUOTE]
I couldn't disagree with you more. The wreck was Vettel's fault, not Hamilton's. Warming your tires and brakes behind the safety car is common practice.
What type of penalty would you advise?
| chkltcow | 10-05-2007 02:02 PM |
Jesus, I think they should just penalize everyone and cancel the 2008 season.
Seriously, as someone not used to F1, I have to ask..... is EVERY year mired in political bull**** like this one?
Seriously, as someone not used to F1, I have to ask..... is EVERY year mired in political bull**** like this one?
| Counterfit | 10-05-2007 02:08 PM |
Pretty much.
| TimStevens | 10-05-2007 02:18 PM |
[QUOTE=chkltcow;19601741]Jesus, I think they should just penalize everyone and cancel the 2008 season.
Seriously, as someone not used to F1, I have to ask..... is EVERY year mired in political bull**** like this one?[/QUOTE]
I'd disagree. Yes, there's been BS in years before, but I don't remember it being nearly as bad in the early-mid even late 90's as it is today. It really seems like the FIA is meddling a lot more than I remember it back in "the day."
But, that could just be me remembering things as better than they were ...
Seriously, as someone not used to F1, I have to ask..... is EVERY year mired in political bull**** like this one?[/QUOTE]
I'd disagree. Yes, there's been BS in years before, but I don't remember it being nearly as bad in the early-mid even late 90's as it is today. It really seems like the FIA is meddling a lot more than I remember it back in "the day."
But, that could just be me remembering things as better than they were ...
| StuBeck | 10-05-2007 02:45 PM |
What I am really annoyed with with the Hamilton thing is they didn't penalize him at the last race and then tried to penalize him at a completly different race meeting. If you're going to do something about an incident, it has to be at least started at that race meeting.
And Schumi's attempted crash into Montoya in Monaco was completely different, that was in the dry and Schumi spun it off on his own (he had a tendancy to do this without getting penalized.) Hamilton's move was in the extreme wet and everyone was caught off guard, not just one driver being an ass, and there were so many different ways for there to not be an accident if Vettel hadn't been right behind Webber.
And Schumi's attempted crash into Montoya in Monaco was completely different, that was in the dry and Schumi spun it off on his own (he had a tendancy to do this without getting penalized.) Hamilton's move was in the extreme wet and everyone was caught off guard, not just one driver being an ass, and there were so many different ways for there to not be an accident if Vettel hadn't been right behind Webber.
| Patrick L | 10-05-2007 07:09 PM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck;19602278]
And Schumi's attempted crash into Montoya in Monaco was completely different, that was in the dry and Schumi spun it off on his own (he had a tendancy to do this without getting penalized.) Hamilton's move was in the extreme wet and everyone was caught off guard, not just one driver being an ass, and there were so many different ways for there to not be an accident if Vettel hadn't been right behind Webber.[/QUOTE]
I think you are mistaken on what I was talking about. Schumi slammed on his brakes in the tunnel and locking up his left front right in front of Montoya. Juan moved to the right too avoid hitting him. Then Schumi move to the right and contacted Juan.
[url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=a5wEx-PYCe4[/url]
My point was that Hamilton kept doing these blasts, then slowing way down. Not something you should be doing in those horrible wet conditions
Heck he about got into the back of the pacecar and had to move too the right. Webber seeing this had to slow way down so not too pass Hamilton of the left. You know the rest.
I guess the FIA lets **** like that fly in F1 if your their pride and joy of F1.
And Schumi's attempted crash into Montoya in Monaco was completely different, that was in the dry and Schumi spun it off on his own (he had a tendancy to do this without getting penalized.) Hamilton's move was in the extreme wet and everyone was caught off guard, not just one driver being an ass, and there were so many different ways for there to not be an accident if Vettel hadn't been right behind Webber.[/QUOTE]
I think you are mistaken on what I was talking about. Schumi slammed on his brakes in the tunnel and locking up his left front right in front of Montoya. Juan moved to the right too avoid hitting him. Then Schumi move to the right and contacted Juan.
[url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=a5wEx-PYCe4[/url]
My point was that Hamilton kept doing these blasts, then slowing way down. Not something you should be doing in those horrible wet conditions
Heck he about got into the back of the pacecar and had to move too the right. Webber seeing this had to slow way down so not too pass Hamilton of the left. You know the rest.
I guess the FIA lets **** like that fly in F1 if your their pride and joy of F1.
| cdvma | 10-05-2007 07:19 PM |
[QUOTE=chkltcow;19586552]Wait... what?
How the **** can Formula One Management order a DMCA takedown on a video that THEY DID NOT SHOOT and therefore [B]DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM![/B][/QUOTE]
The DMCA makes it illegal for anyone to bypass a technology used to protect distribution of copyrighted material. The video did not violate the DMCA, it simply was a copyright problem. Copyright is age-old and the video should have been taken down. Not in my opinion but thats the way it goes :/
How the **** can Formula One Management order a DMCA takedown on a video that THEY DID NOT SHOOT and therefore [B]DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM![/B][/QUOTE]
The DMCA makes it illegal for anyone to bypass a technology used to protect distribution of copyrighted material. The video did not violate the DMCA, it simply was a copyright problem. Copyright is age-old and the video should have been taken down. Not in my opinion but thats the way it goes :/
| chkltcow | 10-05-2007 07:29 PM |
[url]http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/answer.py?answer=58127&query=dmca&topic=&type=[/url]
It's called a "DMCA Takedown Notice". Call it what you want... I call it bull****.
It's called a "DMCA Takedown Notice". Call it what you want... I call it bull****.
| StuBeck | 10-05-2007 08:26 PM |
[QUOTE=Patrick L;19605137]I think you are mistaken on what I was talking about. Schumi slammed on his brakes in the tunnel and locking up his left front right in front of Montoya. Juan moved to the right too avoid hitting him. Then Schumi move to the right and contacted Juan.
[url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=a5wEx-PYCe4[/url]
My point was that Hamilton kept doing these blasts, then slowing way down. Not something you should be doing in those horrible wet conditions
Heck he about got into the back of the pacecar and had to move too the right. Webber seeing this had to slow way down so not too pass Hamilton of the left. You know the rest.
I guess the FIA lets **** like that fly in F1 if your their pride and joy of F1.[/QUOTE]
I don't see how thats very different. I remember the incident.
Everyone was doing those blasts, it happens all the time, which is why you don't get too close to people, especially if the conditions are bad. Because its not a pace car as well, the safety car can mess up and have to slow down unexpectedly.
[url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=a5wEx-PYCe4[/url]
My point was that Hamilton kept doing these blasts, then slowing way down. Not something you should be doing in those horrible wet conditions
Heck he about got into the back of the pacecar and had to move too the right. Webber seeing this had to slow way down so not too pass Hamilton of the left. You know the rest.
I guess the FIA lets **** like that fly in F1 if your their pride and joy of F1.[/QUOTE]
I don't see how thats very different. I remember the incident.
Everyone was doing those blasts, it happens all the time, which is why you don't get too close to people, especially if the conditions are bad. Because its not a pace car as well, the safety car can mess up and have to slow down unexpectedly.
| artkevin | 10-06-2007 01:16 PM |
I might agree with you Patrick [I]if[/I] Webber had hit Hamilton. But when the 3rd place guy hits the 2nd because he is watching the 1st has NOTHING to do with it. Again, Vettel's fault, not Hamilton's.
| KAX | 10-06-2007 04:42 PM |
[QUOTE=artkevin;19609625]I might agree with you Patrick [I]if[/I] Webber had hit Hamilton. But when the 3rd place guy hits the 2nd because he is watching the 1st has NOTHING to do with it. Again, Vettel's fault, not Hamilton's.[/QUOTE]
i dont see how that scenario is any different. if webber hit hamilton it would be because webber wasnt paying attention and hamilton did something out of the ordinary.
well the same thing happened, but webber was paying attention, had time to react and then it was Vettel that got caught out when hamilton was doing something out of the ordinary.
its the exact same either way, so saying one way is hamiltons fault and the other isnt, is wrong.
i dont see how that scenario is any different. if webber hit hamilton it would be because webber wasnt paying attention and hamilton did something out of the ordinary.
well the same thing happened, but webber was paying attention, had time to react and then it was Vettel that got caught out when hamilton was doing something out of the ordinary.
its the exact same either way, so saying one way is hamiltons fault and the other isnt, is wrong.
| artkevin | 10-06-2007 06:39 PM |
Again, you are responsible for keeping y our distance from the guy directly in front of you. There was no reason for Vettel to watch Hamilton.
Vettel admitted blame, Webber assigned blame to Vettel (changed his story after some time but take a look at his interview directly after the race done by Peter Windsor) so I don't see how this is even in question really. But I guess that why the board exists, to exchange ideas and views.
Vettel admitted blame, Webber assigned blame to Vettel (changed his story after some time but take a look at his interview directly after the race done by Peter Windsor) so I don't see how this is even in question really. But I guess that why the board exists, to exchange ideas and views.
| Hotrodguru | 10-07-2007 03:07 AM |
Hell Yeah!!!
Championship will go down to last race.
Championship will go down to last race.
| jal723 | 10-07-2007 03:08 AM |
Hamilton is out of the Chinese Grand Prix!
| Hotrodguru | 10-07-2007 11:39 AM |
Looks like Brasil is going to be fun. Kimi or Alonso can now win the championship, but they're pretty much going to have to win the race. The current points are...
Lewis Hamilton - 107 / 4 wins
Fernando Alonso - 103 / 4 wins
Kimi Raikkonen - 100 / 5 wins
[B]For Kimi[/B] to take it, he would need a win and for Hamilton to finish 6th place or worst.
[B]
For Alonso[/B] to get his 3rd title in a row he'll pretty much need to win the race and have Hamilton finish 3rd place or worst. This would give him the title via tiebreaker and more race wins. Well he could actually finish in 4th place but Hamilton would need to DNF the race or not score points at all.
[B]Now am I correct or wrong on assuming tie breakers are done via race wins?[/B] If so Kimi has more wins than Alonso and Hamilton.
[B][U]Points System[/U][/B]
1st place 10 points
2nd place 8 points
3rd place 6 points
4th place 5 points
5th place 4 points
6th place 3 points
7th place 2 points
8th place 1 point
Lewis Hamilton - 107 / 4 wins
Fernando Alonso - 103 / 4 wins
Kimi Raikkonen - 100 / 5 wins
[B]For Kimi[/B] to take it, he would need a win and for Hamilton to finish 6th place or worst.
[B]
For Alonso[/B] to get his 3rd title in a row he'll pretty much need to win the race and have Hamilton finish 3rd place or worst. This would give him the title via tiebreaker and more race wins. Well he could actually finish in 4th place but Hamilton would need to DNF the race or not score points at all.
[B]Now am I correct or wrong on assuming tie breakers are done via race wins?[/B] If so Kimi has more wins than Alonso and Hamilton.
[B][U]Points System[/U][/B]
1st place 10 points
2nd place 8 points
3rd place 6 points
4th place 5 points
5th place 4 points
6th place 3 points
7th place 2 points
8th place 1 point
| cdvma | 10-07-2007 12:05 PM |
I believe you are correct in that a tie goes to most race wins then most pole positions then most laps led ect ect.
| Daishi00 | 10-07-2007 12:11 PM |
Yup, race wins are the deciding factor in a tie.
As for the whole "who's to blame for Japan" it's Vettel plain and simple. All the drivers throughout the entire safety car laps would speed up and slam on the brakes to try and keep heat in the tires and brakes. Everyone was doing that and everyone was keeping proper distance for the majority of laps except Webber. I was consantly wondering what Webber was doing driving up Hammilton's ass with the weather the way it was. Plus, Hammilton had been doing that same thing throughout the entire race...it's not like he just decided to do it all of a sudden. Vettel was paying attention to the wrong person.
As for the whole "who's to blame for Japan" it's Vettel plain and simple. All the drivers throughout the entire safety car laps would speed up and slam on the brakes to try and keep heat in the tires and brakes. Everyone was doing that and everyone was keeping proper distance for the majority of laps except Webber. I was consantly wondering what Webber was doing driving up Hammilton's ass with the weather the way it was. Plus, Hammilton had been doing that same thing throughout the entire race...it's not like he just decided to do it all of a sudden. Vettel was paying attention to the wrong person.
| StuBeck | 10-07-2007 12:23 PM |
Alonso may be able to finish 5th if Hamilton goes out and Kimi gets 3rd, but I don't know how many second places each driver has.
| linbhunt | 10-07-2007 06:52 PM |
I'm already excited too.
| KAX | 10-08-2007 12:15 AM |
if kimi gets 3rd, hes out. he needs 7 points, which is not possible unless he gets 8 and hamilton gets 1, or kimi gets 10 and hamilton gets 3.
| StuBeck | 10-08-2007 04:36 AM |
I know, I was talkng about Alonso winning. If Kimi gets third he only gets six points where he needs 7.
| richde | 10-08-2007 08:12 AM |
[quote=artkevin;19611613]Again, you are responsible for keeping y our distance from the guy directly in front of you. There was no reason for Vettel to watch Hamilton.
Vettel admitted blame, Webber assigned blame to Vettel (changed his story after some time but take a look at his interview directly after the race done by Peter Windsor) so I don't see how this is even in question really. But I guess that why the board exists, to exchange ideas and views.[/quote]
According to Blundel on ITV, or it it Brundle...at any rate, it's one of those guys...it's the job of the leader during safety car periods to maintain a constant pace and stay behind the safety car. Hamilton failed at one of these, and almost failed at the second. Vettel was in Webber's spray at exactly the wrong moment, Hamilton went wide and braked hard to avoid passing the safety car. The way it happened, the timing, made it an unavoidable accident. Vettel couldn't see anything, Webber saw Hamilton go wide and slow suddenly, then Webber braked, where does that leave Vettel?
The way it turned out was best for all involved. A stern warning, and the next person that pulls that sort of shenanegans will most likely get a penalty. The FIA should have told Hamilton to stop doing that well before the incident, there was no reason to keep your tires and brakes up to temperature when there is no sign that the safety car will come in any time soon.
The ITV commentator also mentioned that the M-B safety car wasn't suitable to lead modern F1 cars....maybe the modern F1 cars aren't suitable to follow a safety car? You could maybe find something slightly faster that capable of carrying a driver plus doctor and equipment, but not much. The race cars need to be able to follow a safety car, the only other option is to red flag races and resume them later during periods that now just have the safety car.
Vettel admitted blame, Webber assigned blame to Vettel (changed his story after some time but take a look at his interview directly after the race done by Peter Windsor) so I don't see how this is even in question really. But I guess that why the board exists, to exchange ideas and views.[/quote]
According to Blundel on ITV, or it it Brundle...at any rate, it's one of those guys...it's the job of the leader during safety car periods to maintain a constant pace and stay behind the safety car. Hamilton failed at one of these, and almost failed at the second. Vettel was in Webber's spray at exactly the wrong moment, Hamilton went wide and braked hard to avoid passing the safety car. The way it happened, the timing, made it an unavoidable accident. Vettel couldn't see anything, Webber saw Hamilton go wide and slow suddenly, then Webber braked, where does that leave Vettel?
The way it turned out was best for all involved. A stern warning, and the next person that pulls that sort of shenanegans will most likely get a penalty. The FIA should have told Hamilton to stop doing that well before the incident, there was no reason to keep your tires and brakes up to temperature when there is no sign that the safety car will come in any time soon.
The ITV commentator also mentioned that the M-B safety car wasn't suitable to lead modern F1 cars....maybe the modern F1 cars aren't suitable to follow a safety car? You could maybe find something slightly faster that capable of carrying a driver plus doctor and equipment, but not much. The race cars need to be able to follow a safety car, the only other option is to red flag races and resume them later during periods that now just have the safety car.
| artkevin | 10-08-2007 02:17 PM |
In normal conditions I think the SC is plenty fast. In the rain is a completely different story. The F1 cars just destroy it on any type of straight and even worse in the corners.
| KAX | 10-08-2007 02:57 PM |
its barely enough in normal conditions, they need a faster car. Maybe a Mclaren Merc SLR could do it. Something that has the technology of an F1 car.
| jmlmr2 | 10-08-2007 03:40 PM |
Audi R12 TDI would be my pace car of choice, though I'm guessing they'd want something with an enclosed cockpit for wet races...though I think part of the point of the safety car is to slow them down, right :)
| KAX | 10-08-2007 04:46 PM |
yes, but how slow is the question. plus its probably safer to have the safety car not driving at 100% of its potential. in case the safety car somehow goes off.
| chkltcow | 10-08-2007 05:01 PM |
There's no such thing as an Audi R12... and why does the Safety Car need to be so blazingly fast. I thought the point was to lead them around at a safe speed, not lead them around at race pace.
| bemani | 10-08-2007 05:59 PM |
[QUOTE=richde;19622679]According to Blundel on ITV, or it it Brundle...at any rate, it's one of those guys...it's the job of the leader during safety car periods to maintain a constant pace and stay behind the safety car. Hamilton failed at one of these, and almost failed at the second. Vettel was in Webber's spray at exactly the wrong moment, Hamilton went wide and braked hard to avoid passing the safety car. The way it happened, the timing, made it an unavoidable accident. Vettel couldn't see anything, Webber saw Hamilton go wide and slow suddenly, then Webber braked, where does that leave Vettel?
The way it turned out was best for all involved. A stern warning, and the next person that pulls that sort of shenanegans will most likely get a penalty. The FIA should have told Hamilton to stop doing that well before the incident, there was no reason to keep your tires and brakes up to temperature when there is no sign that the safety car will come in any time soon.
The ITV commentator also mentioned that the M-B safety car wasn't suitable to lead modern F1 cars....maybe the modern F1 cars aren't suitable to follow a safety car? You could maybe find something slightly faster that capable of carrying a driver plus doctor and equipment, but not much. The race cars need to be able to follow a safety car, the only other option is to red flag races and resume them later during periods that now just have the safety car.[/QUOTE]
:lol:
You really need to stop listening to Martin Brundle...
The way it turned out was best for all involved. A stern warning, and the next person that pulls that sort of shenanegans will most likely get a penalty. The FIA should have told Hamilton to stop doing that well before the incident, there was no reason to keep your tires and brakes up to temperature when there is no sign that the safety car will come in any time soon.
The ITV commentator also mentioned that the M-B safety car wasn't suitable to lead modern F1 cars....maybe the modern F1 cars aren't suitable to follow a safety car? You could maybe find something slightly faster that capable of carrying a driver plus doctor and equipment, but not much. The race cars need to be able to follow a safety car, the only other option is to red flag races and resume them later during periods that now just have the safety car.[/QUOTE]
:lol:
You really need to stop listening to Martin Brundle...
| wvallwheeldrive | 10-08-2007 05:59 PM |
It is a "safety" car not a "pace" there is a difference between the two. The main purpose of the car is to group the pack up to give track crew a "safe" amount of time to fix a problem on the track i.e. crash clean up, or fluids from the cars on the track. They need to setup a safe speed to run during heavy rain periods effectively a "pace" car period.
The safety car was only 10-20 seconds off of race pace in the rain, I don't think they need a better car but better regulations in the rain.
The safety car was only 10-20 seconds off of race pace in the rain, I don't think they need a better car but better regulations in the rain.
| ptclaus98 | 10-08-2007 06:44 PM |
[QUOTE=bemani;19629084]:lol:
You really need to stop listening to Martin Brundle...[/QUOTE]
Brundle is BY FAR the most sensible of the ITV crew. BY FAR.
You really need to stop listening to Martin Brundle...[/QUOTE]
Brundle is BY FAR the most sensible of the ITV crew. BY FAR.
| cdvma | 10-08-2007 07:00 PM |
[QUOTE=KAX;19626716]its barely enough in normal conditions, they need a faster car. Maybe a Mclaren Merc SLR could do it. Something that has the technology of an F1 car.[/QUOTE]
WRC :)
WRC :)
| StuBeck | 10-08-2007 07:01 PM |
[QUOTE=ptclaus98;19629647]Brundle is BY FAR the most sensible of the ITV crew. BY FAR.[/QUOTE]
Hes still horrible compared to the Speed guys.
Hes still horrible compared to the Speed guys.
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