| OnTheGas | 08-04-2007 06:25 PM |
The reaction to Ferrari's "...cold light of day..." letter
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OK, so Ferrari sent that letter on Friday, July 27. Then on Monday, July 30, [URL="http://www.csai.aci.it/csai/DettaglioNews.do?id=1341"]Italy's automobile federation president[/URL] sent the following letter to Max Mosely.[quote]Rome, 30th July 2007
Mr. Max Mosely
President FIA
8, Place de la Concorde
75008 Paris
Dear President,
We have been informed about the outcome of the most recent meeting of the World Motor Sport Council held on July 26, 2007 in Paris. We have also exchanged views with our license holder, Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro (owned by Ferrari SpA).
We must confess that we find it quite difficult to justify how a team has not been penalised while it has been found in breach of clause 151c of the International Sporting Code. Indeed, this is probably the most fundamental provision of our sport.
In the present case the infringement is very serious since it has been assessed that the team Vodafone McLaren Mercedes has repeatedly breached such provision, over several months, through several top team representatives, to the detriment of its most direct competitor and therefore to its direct or indirect advantage and knowing that such infringement would still be ongoing would it had not been fortuitously discovered.
The very fact that the breach of clause 151c has been assessed by the World Motor Sport Council means that all conditions of such breach were fulfilled. We cannot see why additional conditions would have to be demonstrated in order for a penalty to be inflicted.
The recent history of Formula One offers several examples of cases in which a party was inflicted a severe penalty because of a breach of clause 151c, without the subject matter of such breach having been used by a team or having had any effect on the outcome of the competition.
We fear that the decision of the World Motor Sport Council could create a precedent which, at this level of the sport and stage of the competition, would be highly inappropriate and detrimental for the sport.
In any event, in view of the aforesaid, we respectfully suggest that you, in your capacity as President of the FIA, in accordance with the powers granted to you by clause 23 paragraph 1 of the FIA Statutes and article 1 of the CIA rules, submit the matter to the International Court of Appeal of the FIA.
This would also enable our license holder, Ferrari, on behalf of which we would take part to the proceedings, and perhaps other teams as well, to fully submit their position and protect their rights. In effect, Ferrari - as at least two other teams - attended the World Motor Sport Council in Paris as observers and not as a party.
Accordingly, they did not have a full right of audience. As, however, Ferrari in any event had been seriously and directly affected by McLaren's behaviour, we deem it appropriate that Ferrari (directly or through ourselves) enjoys full rights of due process which would be the case in accordance with the rules applicable in front of the International Court of Appeal.
Yours respectfully,
The President of ACI - CSAI
Luigi Macaluso[/quote]
Mr. Max Mosely
President FIA
8, Place de la Concorde
75008 Paris
Dear President,
We have been informed about the outcome of the most recent meeting of the World Motor Sport Council held on July 26, 2007 in Paris. We have also exchanged views with our license holder, Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro (owned by Ferrari SpA).
We must confess that we find it quite difficult to justify how a team has not been penalised while it has been found in breach of clause 151c of the International Sporting Code. Indeed, this is probably the most fundamental provision of our sport.
In the present case the infringement is very serious since it has been assessed that the team Vodafone McLaren Mercedes has repeatedly breached such provision, over several months, through several top team representatives, to the detriment of its most direct competitor and therefore to its direct or indirect advantage and knowing that such infringement would still be ongoing would it had not been fortuitously discovered.
The very fact that the breach of clause 151c has been assessed by the World Motor Sport Council means that all conditions of such breach were fulfilled. We cannot see why additional conditions would have to be demonstrated in order for a penalty to be inflicted.
The recent history of Formula One offers several examples of cases in which a party was inflicted a severe penalty because of a breach of clause 151c, without the subject matter of such breach having been used by a team or having had any effect on the outcome of the competition.
We fear that the decision of the World Motor Sport Council could create a precedent which, at this level of the sport and stage of the competition, would be highly inappropriate and detrimental for the sport.
In any event, in view of the aforesaid, we respectfully suggest that you, in your capacity as President of the FIA, in accordance with the powers granted to you by clause 23 paragraph 1 of the FIA Statutes and article 1 of the CIA rules, submit the matter to the International Court of Appeal of the FIA.
This would also enable our license holder, Ferrari, on behalf of which we would take part to the proceedings, and perhaps other teams as well, to fully submit their position and protect their rights. In effect, Ferrari - as at least two other teams - attended the World Motor Sport Council in Paris as observers and not as a party.
Accordingly, they did not have a full right of audience. As, however, Ferrari in any event had been seriously and directly affected by McLaren's behaviour, we deem it appropriate that Ferrari (directly or through ourselves) enjoys full rights of due process which would be the case in accordance with the rules applicable in front of the International Court of Appeal.
Yours respectfully,
The President of ACI - CSAI
Luigi Macaluso[/quote]
| OnTheGas | 08-04-2007 06:32 PM |
Mosely responds to Macaluso
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So then the following day, Tuesday, July 31, Mosely responds to Italy's automobile federation president w/the following:[quote]Mr. Luigi Macaluso
The President of ACI-CSAI
Via Solferino, 32
00185 Roma
Italie
31 July 2007
Dear Mr Macaluso
Thank you for your letter of 30 July
If, as you suggest, it were clear that several of McLaren's top team representatives were aware of the Ferrari information over a period of several months, the situation would indeed be very serious.
Apart from using Ferrari's technical knowledge to give the McLaren cars an illegitimate advantage over the entire field, detailed knowledge of Ferrari's technical strategies would give McLaren significant and unfair advantages over Ferrari at every race.
However McLaren's case was that, except for a tip-off in March and a drawing shown briefly to a colleague as a historical curiosity, no one at McLaren knew of or had access to any of that information.
According to McLaren, it was acquired privately by a disgruntled employee who intended to leave. They inferred he never used Ferrari's information to help McLaren because it was part of his private database as technical director for another team.
There are a number of suspicious elements, all of which the World Motor Sport Council took into account when reaching its decision.
For example: the claim that the tip-off was the only information that passed in March; the failure to inform Ferrari of a spy when negotiating an agreement based on mutual trust; the installation of a "firewall" at McLaren to stop Stepney communicating, with no attempt at a similar block on Coughlan's private computers; McLaren's agreement to Coughlan travelling to Barcelona "to ask Stepney to stop communicating" rather than simply phone him; the fact that, far from ceasing communication, Coughlan returned from Barcelona with a vast quantity of Ferrari data; the failure to make clear what Coughlan was working on at McLaren while in possession of the data; Jonathan Neale's advice to Coughlan to destroy the documents, without knowing or wanting to know what they were and so on.
However, these suspicions did not amount to proof to the standard the Council felt was necessary in order to reject the evidence of McLaren's Team Principal and Managing Director and convict the team of an offence so grave as in all probability to warrant the exclusion from the Championship.
In the absence of unambiguous evidence that McLaren as a team had received and used the Ferrari information, the Council was left with McLaren's responsibility for its employee. Exclusion or withdrawal of points did not seem appropriate if it was really just a case of a rogue employee illegitimately acquiring information for his own purposes.
Your letter suggests that the outcome may have been different if the Council had given Ferrari further opportunities to be heard beyond those that were in fact offered.
Because of this and the importance of public confidence in the outcome, I will send this matter to the FIA Court of Appeal under article 23.1 of the FIA Statutes with a request that the Court hear both Ferrari and McLaren and any other Championship competitor who so requests and determine whether the decision of the WMSC was appropriate and, if not, substitute such other decision as may be just.
Yours sincerely,
Max Mosley.
CC: Mr Ron Dennis
Mr Jean Todt[/quote]
The President of ACI-CSAI
Via Solferino, 32
00185 Roma
Italie
31 July 2007
Dear Mr Macaluso
Thank you for your letter of 30 July
If, as you suggest, it were clear that several of McLaren's top team representatives were aware of the Ferrari information over a period of several months, the situation would indeed be very serious.
Apart from using Ferrari's technical knowledge to give the McLaren cars an illegitimate advantage over the entire field, detailed knowledge of Ferrari's technical strategies would give McLaren significant and unfair advantages over Ferrari at every race.
However McLaren's case was that, except for a tip-off in March and a drawing shown briefly to a colleague as a historical curiosity, no one at McLaren knew of or had access to any of that information.
According to McLaren, it was acquired privately by a disgruntled employee who intended to leave. They inferred he never used Ferrari's information to help McLaren because it was part of his private database as technical director for another team.
There are a number of suspicious elements, all of which the World Motor Sport Council took into account when reaching its decision.
For example: the claim that the tip-off was the only information that passed in March; the failure to inform Ferrari of a spy when negotiating an agreement based on mutual trust; the installation of a "firewall" at McLaren to stop Stepney communicating, with no attempt at a similar block on Coughlan's private computers; McLaren's agreement to Coughlan travelling to Barcelona "to ask Stepney to stop communicating" rather than simply phone him; the fact that, far from ceasing communication, Coughlan returned from Barcelona with a vast quantity of Ferrari data; the failure to make clear what Coughlan was working on at McLaren while in possession of the data; Jonathan Neale's advice to Coughlan to destroy the documents, without knowing or wanting to know what they were and so on.
However, these suspicions did not amount to proof to the standard the Council felt was necessary in order to reject the evidence of McLaren's Team Principal and Managing Director and convict the team of an offence so grave as in all probability to warrant the exclusion from the Championship.
In the absence of unambiguous evidence that McLaren as a team had received and used the Ferrari information, the Council was left with McLaren's responsibility for its employee. Exclusion or withdrawal of points did not seem appropriate if it was really just a case of a rogue employee illegitimately acquiring information for his own purposes.
Your letter suggests that the outcome may have been different if the Council had given Ferrari further opportunities to be heard beyond those that were in fact offered.
Because of this and the importance of public confidence in the outcome, I will send this matter to the FIA Court of Appeal under article 23.1 of the FIA Statutes with a request that the Court hear both Ferrari and McLaren and any other Championship competitor who so requests and determine whether the decision of the WMSC was appropriate and, if not, substitute such other decision as may be just.
Yours sincerely,
Max Mosley.
CC: Mr Ron Dennis
Mr Jean Todt[/quote]
| OnTheGas | 08-04-2007 06:40 PM |
McLaren Responds Publicly - Aug 1
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Then the next day, Wednesday, August 1, [URL="http://www.mclaren.co.uk/latestnews/pdf/Letter%20from%20Ron%20Dennis%20to%20Luigi%20Macaluso.pdf"]McLaren responded w/the long letter[/URL] that artkevin shared with us here previously,([URL="http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18907413&postcount=2201"]part 1[/URL], and [URL="http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18907415&postcount=2202"]part 2[/URL]). Thanks again, Kevin, for posting that.
| rupertberr | 08-05-2007 11:27 PM |
Have you ever noticed you never see Lord Voldemort and Bernie Eccelstone together at the same time? Makes you wonder...
[IMG]http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/gallery/1163672/photo_52.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://images.motortrend.com/features/consumer/112_0602_49z_the_power_list_2006_bernie_ecclestone.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/gallery/1163672/photo_52.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://images.motortrend.com/features/consumer/112_0602_49z_the_power_list_2006_bernie_ecclestone.jpg[/IMG]
| StuBeck | 08-06-2007 07:45 AM |
[quote=Autosport]Alonso's future at McLaren in doubt
By Biranit Goren and Mark Glendenning Monday, August 6th 2007, 06:10 GMT
Fernando Alonso during the post-qualifying press conference at HungaryMcLaren CEO Ron Dennis hopes world champion Fernando Alonso will complete his multi-year contract with McLaren, amid growing speculations that the Spaniard is looking to leave the team at the end of this season.
Alonso is signed with McLaren until the end of 2008, but his relationship with the team has been visibly strained in recent weeks, the Spaniard hesitating when asked at Hungary yesterday if he would see out his contract with the Woking-based outfit.
Recent rumours suggest Renault want Alonso back, while other teams are likely to be interested in signing the Spaniard should he be freed by McLaren.
Renault have yet to confirm their 2008 line-up and team boss Flavio Briatore made clear at the weekend that he was in no hurry to do so.
"I know nothing about that. We have never had any discussions about that," Briatore said on Sunday when asked about the rumours.
"This is a McLaren problem, not mine."
But Dennis dismissed these rumours as inevitable, and said his team intend to respect the contracts they have with both Alonso and Lewis Hamilton.
"There is an inevitability that these things are rumoured and discussed in other teams," Dennis said on Sunday in Budapest.
"We have two drivers who are contracted for several years into the future. We will respect our part of that bargain and that part of the situation - we hope that the drivers respect theirs, because that's what a contract is about."
According to sources, Alonso appears disillusioned by McLaren's treatment of both drivers, believing he should have had more support from the team due to his status as a double world champion.
A Spanish flag in the crowd on Sunday summed up the feelings of many Spanish fans about their hero's position - "McLaren=Traidor (Traitor)".
But Dennis was adamant that his team would not change their long-held belief of treating both drivers equally.
"That is our position," Dennis stated. "It is a challenging situation to manage, and I fully recognise that. But that goes with my job.
"I have to take any decisions that are in the interests of the team. But at the moment, we are most definitely going to maintain a very firm commitment to our principle of equality.
"We appreciate the pressure and the difficulties and the level of competitiveness that the drivers have to each other. We understand that there are always moments of indecision and a feeling of trust being stretched to the limit.
"But our team principles were not compromised; we make every effort as a team to generate equality.
"We will continue to function as a Grand Prix team with specific values, and if anybody does not want to be part of those values - irrespective of where they sit in the organisation - ultimately they all have a choice. But we will not deviate away from our values." [/quote]
[url]http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61422[/url]
Not completely surprised this could be happening.
By Biranit Goren and Mark Glendenning Monday, August 6th 2007, 06:10 GMT
Fernando Alonso during the post-qualifying press conference at HungaryMcLaren CEO Ron Dennis hopes world champion Fernando Alonso will complete his multi-year contract with McLaren, amid growing speculations that the Spaniard is looking to leave the team at the end of this season.
Alonso is signed with McLaren until the end of 2008, but his relationship with the team has been visibly strained in recent weeks, the Spaniard hesitating when asked at Hungary yesterday if he would see out his contract with the Woking-based outfit.
Recent rumours suggest Renault want Alonso back, while other teams are likely to be interested in signing the Spaniard should he be freed by McLaren.
Renault have yet to confirm their 2008 line-up and team boss Flavio Briatore made clear at the weekend that he was in no hurry to do so.
"I know nothing about that. We have never had any discussions about that," Briatore said on Sunday when asked about the rumours.
"This is a McLaren problem, not mine."
But Dennis dismissed these rumours as inevitable, and said his team intend to respect the contracts they have with both Alonso and Lewis Hamilton.
"There is an inevitability that these things are rumoured and discussed in other teams," Dennis said on Sunday in Budapest.
"We have two drivers who are contracted for several years into the future. We will respect our part of that bargain and that part of the situation - we hope that the drivers respect theirs, because that's what a contract is about."
According to sources, Alonso appears disillusioned by McLaren's treatment of both drivers, believing he should have had more support from the team due to his status as a double world champion.
A Spanish flag in the crowd on Sunday summed up the feelings of many Spanish fans about their hero's position - "McLaren=Traidor (Traitor)".
But Dennis was adamant that his team would not change their long-held belief of treating both drivers equally.
"That is our position," Dennis stated. "It is a challenging situation to manage, and I fully recognise that. But that goes with my job.
"I have to take any decisions that are in the interests of the team. But at the moment, we are most definitely going to maintain a very firm commitment to our principle of equality.
"We appreciate the pressure and the difficulties and the level of competitiveness that the drivers have to each other. We understand that there are always moments of indecision and a feeling of trust being stretched to the limit.
"But our team principles were not compromised; we make every effort as a team to generate equality.
"We will continue to function as a Grand Prix team with specific values, and if anybody does not want to be part of those values - irrespective of where they sit in the organisation - ultimately they all have a choice. But we will not deviate away from our values." [/quote]
[url]http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61422[/url]
Not completely surprised this could be happening.
| NYEJ25 | 08-06-2007 08:31 AM |
Big surprise! Cry baby Alonso is not the center of attention anymore so he wants out. What a scumbag! I hate him so much.
| tdm74 | 08-06-2007 09:45 AM |
[QUOTE=NYEJ25;18952121]Big surprise! Cry baby Alonso is not the center of attention anymore so he wants out. What a scumbag! I hate him so much.[/QUOTE]
I just do not understand when people say they hate a driver. Life is just so short, who gives a ****?
I just do not understand when people say they hate a driver. Life is just so short, who gives a ****?
| NYEJ25 | 08-06-2007 10:05 AM |
[QUOTE=tdm74;18952583]I just do not understand when people say they hate a driver. Life is just so short, who gives a ****?[/QUOTE]
That is the nature of liking any sport. There are "heros" and "villains". Everyone tunes in for different reasons, be it to watch your favorite driver win or to watch you favorite villain lose. I dislike Alonso very much and enjoy watching him lose. I could go on for days about him..
That is the nature of liking any sport. There are "heros" and "villains". Everyone tunes in for different reasons, be it to watch your favorite driver win or to watch you favorite villain lose. I dislike Alonso very much and enjoy watching him lose. I could go on for days about him..
| StuBeck | 08-06-2007 10:06 AM |
[QUOTE=tdm74;18952583]I just do not understand when people say they hate a driver. Life is just so short, who gives a ****?[/QUOTE]
He doesn't hate him, he just dislikes him.
And your comments echo what I think about people thinking yesterdays race being boring :)
He doesn't hate him, he just dislikes him.
And your comments echo what I think about people thinking yesterdays race being boring :)
| tdm74 | 08-06-2007 10:13 AM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck;18952778]He doesn't hate him, he just dislikes him.
And your comments echo what I think about people thinking yesterdays race being boring :)[/QUOTE]
got it, bring on turkey!!!!
And your comments echo what I think about people thinking yesterdays race being boring :)[/QUOTE]
got it, bring on turkey!!!!
| ingko | 08-06-2007 11:22 AM |
Wouldn't awesome if a frustrated/angry Alonso pulled a Montoya and joins him in Nascar in Chip Ganassi's team. The dudes won two championships, what more can he want? The F1 people would shoot themselves in the head!!
| parker/slc/gc8fan | 08-07-2007 01:27 AM |
Fernando wants to be #1 he can't be that in Nascar.
I think he didn't understand what the teams policy of equality really meant.
I don't like him, but he is a great driver. (mistakes in hand).
What an interesting season, Heres hoping this page is empty of stepney gate.
I think he didn't understand what the teams policy of equality really meant.
I don't like him, but he is a great driver. (mistakes in hand).
What an interesting season, Heres hoping this page is empty of stepney gate.
| Dogbert2 | 08-07-2007 04:47 PM |
Toro Rosso to confirm Bourdais
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[QUOTE]Toro Rosso will officially complete its 2008 driver line-up on Wednesday, according to a specialist report on Tuesday.
Multiple Champ Car title winner Sebastien Bourdais has now reached a deal with the Faenza based team to replace Tonio Liuzzi from 2008, the Swiss publication Motorsport Aktuell claimed.
28-year-old Bourdais will join the already-confirmed German rookie Sebastian Vettel in the team, and plans to relocate from Florida to Europe with his wife Claire and their baby daughter Emma.
The publication reported that Bourdais was tying up loose ends with his American employer Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing so that an official announcement could theoretically be made on Wednesday.
[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070807164334.shtml"]http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070807164334.shtml[/URL]
:D This should be interesting!
Multiple Champ Car title winner Sebastien Bourdais has now reached a deal with the Faenza based team to replace Tonio Liuzzi from 2008, the Swiss publication Motorsport Aktuell claimed.
28-year-old Bourdais will join the already-confirmed German rookie Sebastian Vettel in the team, and plans to relocate from Florida to Europe with his wife Claire and their baby daughter Emma.
The publication reported that Bourdais was tying up loose ends with his American employer Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing so that an official announcement could theoretically be made on Wednesday.
[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070807164334.shtml"]http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070807164334.shtml[/URL]
:D This should be interesting!
| artkevin | 08-07-2007 05:40 PM |
Everyday that passes makes me wonder more and more why Bourdais would go to STR. As JoD mentioned to me, they have the Toyota mould of old where they blame the drivers 1st. Its not a good car (yet) and he will have next to no chance of scoring even a point.
He is one of my favorite drivers in any league but I just hope he has thought it all the way through if he leaves.
NYEJ25, I would be interested in having you PM some of the things that piss you off about Alonso. I am a fan of his, save for this weekend, but have never understood all of the strong dislike for him. To each his own but I'm just curious.
He is one of my favorite drivers in any league but I just hope he has thought it all the way through if he leaves.
NYEJ25, I would be interested in having you PM some of the things that piss you off about Alonso. I am a fan of his, save for this weekend, but have never understood all of the strong dislike for him. To each his own but I'm just curious.
| StuBeck | 08-07-2007 07:10 PM |
Yeah, I brought up the same idea Kevin, they're just blaming the drivers and not seeing that no one is doing well in their car. I think for SB its worth it just to get a year in F1 and see if he can move up, but he should have an option back at newman/haas.
| sirfrankwilliams | 08-07-2007 09:06 PM |
I wonder what Bourdais is thinking as well. :confused:
Maybe he's just burnt out on winning.
Can I go out on a limb here and predict that its not going to end well?
[SIZE=1]its not going to end well[/SIZE]
Maybe he's just burnt out on winning.
Can I go out on a limb here and predict that its not going to end well?
[SIZE=1]its not going to end well[/SIZE]
| TimStevens | 08-07-2007 09:13 PM |
Well, he's not getting any younger and while an STR drive isn't exactly golden, it IS F1, and you can't blame the guy for wanting in.
Personally I wouldn't be surprised if they gave him some sort of typically F1 unofficial official verbal non-committal commitment to give him first dibbs on DC's race seat after Red Bull sends him out to pasture after next season, which seems pretty durned inevitable.
Personally I wouldn't be surprised if they gave him some sort of typically F1 unofficial official verbal non-committal commitment to give him first dibbs on DC's race seat after Red Bull sends him out to pasture after next season, which seems pretty durned inevitable.
| bitterWRX | 08-07-2007 10:06 PM |
[QUOTE=TimStevens;18973166]Well, he's not getting any younger and while an STR drive isn't exactly golden, it IS F1, and you can't blame the guy for wanting in.
Personally I wouldn't be surprised if they gave him some sort of typically F1 unofficial official verbal non-committal commitment to give him first dibbs on DC's race seat after Red Bull sends him out to pasture after next season, which seems pretty durned inevitable.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. It was no surprise that Bourdais end goal was to make it to the F1 arena. We all know he is the master of CCWS but you have to know that it gets old for him. I think he's so desperate right now for that F1 challenge that he's willing to take any drive available. Hopefully, Berger and Tost treat him "decently" and don't make a joke out of him.
Personally I wouldn't be surprised if they gave him some sort of typically F1 unofficial official verbal non-committal commitment to give him first dibbs on DC's race seat after Red Bull sends him out to pasture after next season, which seems pretty durned inevitable.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. It was no surprise that Bourdais end goal was to make it to the F1 arena. We all know he is the master of CCWS but you have to know that it gets old for him. I think he's so desperate right now for that F1 challenge that he's willing to take any drive available. Hopefully, Berger and Tost treat him "decently" and don't make a joke out of him.
| Impreza88 | 08-07-2007 10:22 PM |
^^
Exactly, you have to start somewhere. Dont you think the other teams know that the STR cars are trash? If he still performs remotely well they'll pick up on it. It's a gateway to bigger and better things, and as the other guy said, IT IS F1.
Exactly, you have to start somewhere. Dont you think the other teams know that the STR cars are trash? If he still performs remotely well they'll pick up on it. It's a gateway to bigger and better things, and as the other guy said, IT IS F1.
| sirfrankwilliams | 08-07-2007 10:35 PM |
[quote=bitterWRX;18973678]Hopefully, Berger and Tost treat him "decently" and don't make a joke out of him.[/quote]
I hope so too
I hope so too
| cooleyjb | 08-07-2007 10:49 PM |
If Bourdais goes to STR, he will be cementing his future in sedan and endurance racing in Europe starting in about 2 years.
| artkevin | 08-07-2007 11:01 PM |
[QUOTE=Impreza88;18973841]^^
Exactly, you have to start somewhere. Dont you think the other teams know that the STR cars are trash? If he still performs remotely well they'll pick up on it. It's a gateway to bigger and better things, and as the other guy said, IT IS F1.[/QUOTE]
One can hope. But the Euro GP proved that the two them can trash a drivers name in a heart beat. Vit's race, while it looked like he just screwed up, was really a mech. failure, not driver error. Speed was part of the parking lot and was blamed for it but there was no mention that the 1st seven cars to go into turn 1 ALL went off including Hamilton and Rosberg.
So blaming the drivers was what the higher ups at STR felt was the best way to go rather then helping/protecting them as I feel they should have.
Exactly, you have to start somewhere. Dont you think the other teams know that the STR cars are trash? If he still performs remotely well they'll pick up on it. It's a gateway to bigger and better things, and as the other guy said, IT IS F1.[/QUOTE]
One can hope. But the Euro GP proved that the two them can trash a drivers name in a heart beat. Vit's race, while it looked like he just screwed up, was really a mech. failure, not driver error. Speed was part of the parking lot and was blamed for it but there was no mention that the 1st seven cars to go into turn 1 ALL went off including Hamilton and Rosberg.
So blaming the drivers was what the higher ups at STR felt was the best way to go rather then helping/protecting them as I feel they should have.
| Impreza88 | 08-07-2007 11:35 PM |
True...I think there was just some anti american feelings..that may be ignorant thinking on my part but I've always felt that a little bit about him.
| StuBeck | 08-08-2007 07:28 AM |
Did anyone hear Frank Tost's comments either before the race or on the news after the race? Windsor asked him point blank why they dropped him, he mentioned his performance, then Windsor said that he was better than Liuzzi, and Tost went into a "buh buh buh, umm, it wasn't...err, it was performance" speech. Its obvious they just didn't like him.
| RALLYT-WRX | 08-08-2007 07:52 AM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck;18976749]Did anyone hear Frank Tost's comments either before the race or on the news after the race? Windsor asked him point blank why they dropped him, he mentioned his performance, then Windsor said that he was better than Liuzzi, and Tost went into a "buh buh buh, umm, it wasn't...err, it was performance" speech. Its obvious they just didn't like him.[/QUOTE]
Just another classic case of a Europe based team snubbing their noses at an american driver. :rolleyes:
Just another classic case of a Europe based team snubbing their noses at an american driver. :rolleyes:
| wvallwheeldrive | 08-08-2007 08:46 AM |
Speed still may have a chance Prodrive hasn't said or even mentioned who was going to be in there cars. i know it won't get him far but it could be better then STRs cars.
| StuBeck | 08-08-2007 09:38 AM |
[QUOTE=RALLYT-WRX;18976831]Just another classic case of a Europe based team snubbing their noses at an american driver. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
I don't agree. I think they just disliked him as a person, being American didn't have anything to do with it. What are some other examples?
I don't agree. I think they just disliked him as a person, being American didn't have anything to do with it. What are some other examples?
| NYEJ25 | 08-08-2007 10:36 AM |
[QUOTE=artkevin;18970933]
NYEJ25, I would be interested in having you PM some of the things that piss you off about Alonso. I am a fan of his, save for this weekend, but have never understood all of the strong dislike for him. To each his own but I'm just curious.[/QUOTE]
My main reason for disliking him comes from his sense of entitlement. He is constantly waving his little fist in the air for no reason. He acts as if everyone should drop to one knee when they see him on the track and allow him to pass with a 40 foot buffer in all directions.
I hate the way he has handled this situation with Hamilton. Nobody expected Hamilton to be this good, this fast. But he has shown no class in dealing with a faster, younger teammate. The stunt he pulled last week illustrates this point perfectly.
I also hate the stupid little dances that he does when he wins a race. I don't know what they are all about, or why, but it really pisses me off.
He also seems to blame the team when things go wrong, but take all the credit when things go right. How many times as he said things about the car being bad when he does not win? But when he does win, it's all "I" and "Me", not "us" or "we".
Those are just some of the reasons off of the top of my head.
See what I mean:
[IMG]http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i311/sqc049/fernando-alonso-karate-kid-1.jpg[/IMG]
NYEJ25, I would be interested in having you PM some of the things that piss you off about Alonso. I am a fan of his, save for this weekend, but have never understood all of the strong dislike for him. To each his own but I'm just curious.[/QUOTE]
My main reason for disliking him comes from his sense of entitlement. He is constantly waving his little fist in the air for no reason. He acts as if everyone should drop to one knee when they see him on the track and allow him to pass with a 40 foot buffer in all directions.
I hate the way he has handled this situation with Hamilton. Nobody expected Hamilton to be this good, this fast. But he has shown no class in dealing with a faster, younger teammate. The stunt he pulled last week illustrates this point perfectly.
I also hate the stupid little dances that he does when he wins a race. I don't know what they are all about, or why, but it really pisses me off.
He also seems to blame the team when things go wrong, but take all the credit when things go right. How many times as he said things about the car being bad when he does not win? But when he does win, it's all "I" and "Me", not "us" or "we".
Those are just some of the reasons off of the top of my head.
See what I mean:
[IMG]http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i311/sqc049/fernando-alonso-karate-kid-1.jpg[/IMG]
| StuBeck | 08-08-2007 10:46 AM |
The dances started as a bet by a friend, and its continued to everytime he wins.
I had forgotten how nice looking the Renault was.
I had forgotten how nice looking the Renault was.
| artkevin | 08-08-2007 11:13 AM |
Thanks for the points NYEJ25.
As not to start an argument I will say I see what you mean but disagree. :)
As not to start an argument I will say I see what you mean but disagree. :)
| NYEJ25 | 08-08-2007 11:16 AM |
[QUOTE=artkevin;18978487]Thanks for the points NYEJ25.
As not to start an argument I will say I see what you mean but disagree. :)[/QUOTE]
I figured we would agree to disagree on this. He is just one of those guys that rubs me the wrong way. Don't worry, I still love your art work!:p
As not to start an argument I will say I see what you mean but disagree. :)[/QUOTE]
I figured we would agree to disagree on this. He is just one of those guys that rubs me the wrong way. Don't worry, I still love your art work!:p
| artkevin | 08-08-2007 11:33 AM |
And that is all that counts!:devil:
This is the type of stuff that makes the board so good IMHO
This is the type of stuff that makes the board so good IMHO
| Ferg | 08-08-2007 11:36 AM |
Someone remind me how long it took Good 'Ol Nige to bag that World Driver's title...and just how dominant the FW14B was when he finally did. At least Jenson, when saddled with an absolutely pig-monster of a car doesn't whine endlessly. Can you even imagine the noises Mansell would be making if he had to cope with this year's Honda? :lol:
[QUOTE][B]Button's time is up, says Mansell[/B]
By Pablo Elizalde Wednesday, August 8th 2007, 09:07 GMT
Jenson Button's opportunities to succeed in Formula One are now gone, according to former world champion Nigel Mansell.
"Jenson should have won more races, he has under-performed and that is down to him," Mansell told the BBC.
"He had the opportunity and he didn't take it; there won't be any more," the 1992 world champion added.
Button scored his maiden Grand Prix in last year's Hungarian Grand Prix, after 115 races, but has struggled in this year's championship with an uncompetitive Honda.
This season Button has scored just one point in 11 races and has failed to qualify in the top 16 in the last three Grands Prix.
Mansell believes Button's best days are now behind him.
"Jenson is a great talent," Mansell said. "But he was far better years ago than he is now because he was hungry then. He's got a great reputation for partying and that's taken the edge off it. He's a typical example of too much, too soon.
"He'll have a great lifestyle but he's had his opportunities and it hasn't happened for him." [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][B]Button's time is up, says Mansell[/B]
By Pablo Elizalde Wednesday, August 8th 2007, 09:07 GMT
Jenson Button's opportunities to succeed in Formula One are now gone, according to former world champion Nigel Mansell.
"Jenson should have won more races, he has under-performed and that is down to him," Mansell told the BBC.
"He had the opportunity and he didn't take it; there won't be any more," the 1992 world champion added.
Button scored his maiden Grand Prix in last year's Hungarian Grand Prix, after 115 races, but has struggled in this year's championship with an uncompetitive Honda.
This season Button has scored just one point in 11 races and has failed to qualify in the top 16 in the last three Grands Prix.
Mansell believes Button's best days are now behind him.
"Jenson is a great talent," Mansell said. "But he was far better years ago than he is now because he was hungry then. He's got a great reputation for partying and that's taken the edge off it. He's a typical example of too much, too soon.
"He'll have a great lifestyle but he's had his opportunities and it hasn't happened for him." [/QUOTE]
| RALLYT-WRX | 08-08-2007 11:36 AM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck;18977503]I don't agree. I think they just disliked him as a person, being American didn't have anything to do with it. What are some other examples?[/QUOTE]
I can't say I have any specific examples in regards to that team, but I can tell you from first hand experience that most european race teams I have come in contact with here in the states, in europe, and the general european "car guys" all seem to have this general attitude that all americans are Bud drinking, Skoal Chewing, Redneck NASCAR type fans and can't handle anything but turning left all day long. I even had a friend of mine whom works for a race team and is from England make jokes about the ALMS Corvette Team, saying "You Americans are such bad race drivers that you can't even find anyone to drive your own cars". (There is only one american driver on Corvette Racing's team). And I can always use the Phil Hill / Mario Andretti argument but that usually doesn't end well. :rolleyes:
I guess you could call it stereotyping on Speeds case but I am just speaking from my past experiences. And afterall we have to remember that Speed won the Red Bull Drivers challenge, that teams main sponsor. So you have to wonder how much the sponsor had to do with the decision to let Speed race.
I really wonder if any other team would picked up Speed if Red Bull had nothing to do with his career?
Of course this is all based on pure speculation on our parts as we really don't know what was actually going on behind closed doors with Speed and his team, but it sure makes for a fun conversation. :)
I can't say I have any specific examples in regards to that team, but I can tell you from first hand experience that most european race teams I have come in contact with here in the states, in europe, and the general european "car guys" all seem to have this general attitude that all americans are Bud drinking, Skoal Chewing, Redneck NASCAR type fans and can't handle anything but turning left all day long. I even had a friend of mine whom works for a race team and is from England make jokes about the ALMS Corvette Team, saying "You Americans are such bad race drivers that you can't even find anyone to drive your own cars". (There is only one american driver on Corvette Racing's team). And I can always use the Phil Hill / Mario Andretti argument but that usually doesn't end well. :rolleyes:
I guess you could call it stereotyping on Speeds case but I am just speaking from my past experiences. And afterall we have to remember that Speed won the Red Bull Drivers challenge, that teams main sponsor. So you have to wonder how much the sponsor had to do with the decision to let Speed race.
I really wonder if any other team would picked up Speed if Red Bull had nothing to do with his career?
Of course this is all based on pure speculation on our parts as we really don't know what was actually going on behind closed doors with Speed and his team, but it sure makes for a fun conversation. :)
| RALLYT-WRX | 08-08-2007 11:40 AM |
[SIZE="5"][B]Liuzzi expecting little from Toro Rosso[/B][/SIZE]
Admits to atmosphere within the team
08/08/07 09:21
"I'm negotiating with other teams"
Italian driver Tonio Liuzzi has admitted the possibility of being officially frozen out of Toro Rosso's 2008 line-up with an announcement on Wednesday.
Swiss reports late on Tuesday said confirmation of multiple Champ Car title winner Sebastien Bourdais' move to the team and formula one is now imminent.
The Frenchman would for 2008 join at the Faenza based team the already-confirmed Sebastian Vettel, who recently replaced Liuzzi's former team-mate Scott Speed.
Asked by the Italian website f1grandprix.it if the Motorsport Aktuell report was true, Liuzzi said: "I don't know. Anyway, I knew this possibility and I'm negotiating with other teams, so it's not a big change for me."
Liuzzi said it was 'quite clear' even before the start of the season that both he and Speed had fallen out of favour with team bosses Franz Tost and Gerhard Berger.
He added: "That's why I decided to look elsewhere and Scott did the same. Now we are at this point.
"The atmosphere inside the team wasn't the best one, because many times the drivers were accused unfairly to hide the problems of the car.
"
Liuzzi, who turned 25 on Monday, would not reveal the identity of his alternate employers but f1grandprix.it said Williams was one possibility.
It is also believed that Sir Frank Williams' Toyota-powered outfit is strongly pursuing Renault test driver Nelson Piquet Jr as a potential new team-mate for Nico Rosberg next year.
Liuzzi, meanwhile, dismissed German 20-year-old Vettel's debut alongside him at Toro Rosso in Hungary as "nothing special".
Referring to his bosses, he added: "Maybe they thought they will put him in the car and he would be half a second faster than me.
"Instead it was quite clear it was the contrary."
Source GMM
CAPSIS International
Admits to atmosphere within the team
08/08/07 09:21
"I'm negotiating with other teams"
Italian driver Tonio Liuzzi has admitted the possibility of being officially frozen out of Toro Rosso's 2008 line-up with an announcement on Wednesday.
Swiss reports late on Tuesday said confirmation of multiple Champ Car title winner Sebastien Bourdais' move to the team and formula one is now imminent.
The Frenchman would for 2008 join at the Faenza based team the already-confirmed Sebastian Vettel, who recently replaced Liuzzi's former team-mate Scott Speed.
Asked by the Italian website f1grandprix.it if the Motorsport Aktuell report was true, Liuzzi said: "I don't know. Anyway, I knew this possibility and I'm negotiating with other teams, so it's not a big change for me."
Liuzzi said it was 'quite clear' even before the start of the season that both he and Speed had fallen out of favour with team bosses Franz Tost and Gerhard Berger.
He added: "That's why I decided to look elsewhere and Scott did the same. Now we are at this point.
"The atmosphere inside the team wasn't the best one, because many times the drivers were accused unfairly to hide the problems of the car.
"
Liuzzi, who turned 25 on Monday, would not reveal the identity of his alternate employers but f1grandprix.it said Williams was one possibility.
It is also believed that Sir Frank Williams' Toyota-powered outfit is strongly pursuing Renault test driver Nelson Piquet Jr as a potential new team-mate for Nico Rosberg next year.
Liuzzi, meanwhile, dismissed German 20-year-old Vettel's debut alongside him at Toro Rosso in Hungary as "nothing special".
Referring to his bosses, he added: "Maybe they thought they will put him in the car and he would be half a second faster than me.
"Instead it was quite clear it was the contrary."
Source GMM
CAPSIS International
| StuBeck | 08-08-2007 12:02 PM |
[QUOTE=Ferg;18978768]Someone remind me how long it took Good 'Ol Nige to bag that World Driver's title...and just how dominant the FW14B was when he finally did. At least Jenson, when saddled with an absolutely pig-monster of a car doesn't whine endlessly. Can you even imagine the noises Mansell would be making if he had to cope with this year's Honda? :lol:[/QUOTE]
:lol: And at least Button's career won't be ended because he can't fit into the car because he's [I]too fat.[/I] Mansell is a whiner and annoying.
:lol: And at least Button's career won't be ended because he can't fit into the car because he's [I]too fat.[/I] Mansell is a whiner and annoying.
| Ferg | 08-08-2007 12:09 PM |
:lol:
Mansell to Ron, "Hey thanks for the wonderful buffet, and for making me that extra-wide MP4-10, but yeah, I'm packing it on, I mean in."
By the way, nice of Nigel to think positive thoughts on his birthday...I suspect he didn't get enough cake :lol:
Happy Birthday you whiner!
Mansell to Ron, "Hey thanks for the wonderful buffet, and for making me that extra-wide MP4-10, but yeah, I'm packing it on, I mean in."
By the way, nice of Nigel to think positive thoughts on his birthday...I suspect he didn't get enough cake :lol:
Happy Birthday you whiner!
| artkevin | 08-08-2007 12:23 PM |
[QUOTE=RALLYT-WRX;18978769]
I really wonder if any other team would picked up Speed if Red Bull had nothing to do with his career?
[/QUOTE]
Zero!
But that is nothing new. Alonso and many others have said that they are not ness. the best drivers but sometimes the luckiest and have had the most doors opened for them.
I really wonder if any other team would picked up Speed if Red Bull had nothing to do with his career?
[/QUOTE]
Zero!
But that is nothing new. Alonso and many others have said that they are not ness. the best drivers but sometimes the luckiest and have had the most doors opened for them.
| mac35 | 08-08-2007 01:15 PM |
[QUOTE=RALLYT-WRX;18978826]
Liuzzi, meanwhile, dismissed German 20-year-old Vettel's debut alongside him at Toro Rosso in Hungary as "nothing special".
Referring to his bosses, he added: "Maybe they thought they will put him in the car and he would be half a second faster than me.
"Instead it was quite clear it was the contrary."
Source GMM
CAPSIS International[/QUOTE]
Haha, to true. I love seeing drivers swing back at their moronic bosses/teams.
Liuzzi, meanwhile, dismissed German 20-year-old Vettel's debut alongside him at Toro Rosso in Hungary as "nothing special".
Referring to his bosses, he added: "Maybe they thought they will put him in the car and he would be half a second faster than me.
"Instead it was quite clear it was the contrary."
Source GMM
CAPSIS International[/QUOTE]
Haha, to true. I love seeing drivers swing back at their moronic bosses/teams.
| KAX | 08-08-2007 03:52 PM |
well obviously hes going to be slower for his first race in the car. give it a few more races and i bet Vettel will be a good bit faster. Speed was already faster, so i dont think itll be hard to beat liuzzi
| ptclaus98 | 08-08-2007 04:28 PM |
[QUOTE=wvallwheeldrive;18977108]Speed still may have a chance Prodrive hasn't said or even mentioned who was going to be in there cars. i know it won't get him far but it could be better then STRs cars.[/QUOTE]
Well, at this point it's kinda hard to see them on the grid for next year. We don't know much about what they'll have. I hope they pick up Speed. He didn't deserve to get dropped like that.
Well, at this point it's kinda hard to see them on the grid for next year. We don't know much about what they'll have. I hope they pick up Speed. He didn't deserve to get dropped like that.
| StuBeck | 08-08-2007 05:49 PM |
Who? Prodrive? They are definitely on the grid next year.
| ptclaus98 | 08-08-2007 05:57 PM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck;18983582]Who? Prodrive? They are definitely on the grid next year.[/QUOTE]
Well they're taking forever to get their **** together.
Well they're taking forever to get their **** together.
| KAX | 08-08-2007 06:02 PM |
or you're just not hearing about it.
| Yotsuya | 08-08-2007 06:05 PM |
[QUOTE=ptclaus98;18983662]Well they're taking forever to get their **** together.[/QUOTE]
You couldn't tell from watching thier WRC program suffer... :p
You couldn't tell from watching thier WRC program suffer... :p
| StuBeck | 08-08-2007 06:38 PM |
[QUOTE=ptclaus98;18983662]Well they're taking forever to get their **** together.[/QUOTE]
They're going to use a customer chassis, so its not going to be a huge endeavor for them to get on the grid. They just haven't announced much too.
They're going to use a customer chassis, so its not going to be a huge endeavor for them to get on the grid. They just haven't announced much too.
| finnRex | 08-08-2007 08:57 PM |
[QUOTE=RALLYT-WRX;18978769]I can't say I have any specific examples in regards to that team, but I can tell you from first hand experience that most european race teams I have come in contact with here in the states, in europe, and the general european "car guys" all seem to have this general attitude that all americans are Bud drinking, Skoal Chewing, Redneck NASCAR type fans and can't handle anything but turning left all day long. I even had a friend of mine whom works for a race team and is from England make jokes about the ALMS Corvette Team, saying "You Americans are such bad race drivers that you can't even find anyone to drive your own cars". (There is only one american driver on Corvette Racing's team). And I can always use the Phil Hill / Mario Andretti argument but that usually doesn't end well. :rolleyes:
I guess you could call it stereotyping on Speeds case but I am just speaking from my past experiences. And afterall we have to remember that Speed won the Red Bull Drivers challenge, that teams main sponsor. So you have to wonder how much the sponsor had to do with the decision to let Speed race.
I really wonder if any other team would picked up Speed if Red Bull had nothing to do with his career?
Of course this is all based on pure speculation on our parts as we really don't know what was actually going on behind closed doors with Speed and his team, but it sure makes for a fun conversation. :)[/QUOTE]
This is all speculation on my part, but here it goes. Speed's attitude was pretty cocky. And I understand that drivers have to be cocky, but his arrogance really rubbed people the wrong way. As far as Europeans having their view of American racing, the only real racing they see coming from the U.S. is Nascar. Aside from that, there's 12 hours of Sebring. The last time there was a decent American driver in F1 was back in the early '80's. I say decent with regards to points. Speed got shafted with a crappy car, and I do feel that he got the shaft for not taking ish and for speaking the truth. He gained my respect for speaking how he felt, and letting things be known how they are.
Most Americans don't venture out of the border to race. Of course people are going to say, there's the Messican Nascar race and stuff like that, but that is primarily an American series. I think if an American based team would start a development program either in Europe or in Japan, and find American drivers, then something might happen. There's karting in the U.S., but that's about where it ends. F1 is worldwide, where as most Americans are viewed as sticking to their local events. Dunno if that makes sense or not, but that's just my take at things.
Mika
I guess you could call it stereotyping on Speeds case but I am just speaking from my past experiences. And afterall we have to remember that Speed won the Red Bull Drivers challenge, that teams main sponsor. So you have to wonder how much the sponsor had to do with the decision to let Speed race.
I really wonder if any other team would picked up Speed if Red Bull had nothing to do with his career?
Of course this is all based on pure speculation on our parts as we really don't know what was actually going on behind closed doors with Speed and his team, but it sure makes for a fun conversation. :)[/QUOTE]
This is all speculation on my part, but here it goes. Speed's attitude was pretty cocky. And I understand that drivers have to be cocky, but his arrogance really rubbed people the wrong way. As far as Europeans having their view of American racing, the only real racing they see coming from the U.S. is Nascar. Aside from that, there's 12 hours of Sebring. The last time there was a decent American driver in F1 was back in the early '80's. I say decent with regards to points. Speed got shafted with a crappy car, and I do feel that he got the shaft for not taking ish and for speaking the truth. He gained my respect for speaking how he felt, and letting things be known how they are.
Most Americans don't venture out of the border to race. Of course people are going to say, there's the Messican Nascar race and stuff like that, but that is primarily an American series. I think if an American based team would start a development program either in Europe or in Japan, and find American drivers, then something might happen. There's karting in the U.S., but that's about where it ends. F1 is worldwide, where as most Americans are viewed as sticking to their local events. Dunno if that makes sense or not, but that's just my take at things.
Mika
| sirfrankwilliams | 08-08-2007 09:20 PM |
[quote=Ferg;18978768]Someone remind me how long it took Good 'Ol Nige to bag that World Driver's title...and just how dominant the FW14B was when he finally did. At least Jenson, when saddled with an absolutely pig-monster of a car doesn't whine endlessly. Can you even imagine the noises Mansell would be making if he had to cope with this year's Honda? :lol:[/quote]
OH SO TRUE!
[quote=StuBeck;18979081]:lol: And at least Button's career won't be ended because he can't fit into the car because he's [I]too fat.[/I] Mansell is a whiner and annoying.[/quote]
Its funny 'cause its also true.
I like Button, but I [I]never[/I] saw him as a real contender for the world championship.
OH SO TRUE!
[quote=StuBeck;18979081]:lol: And at least Button's career won't be ended because he can't fit into the car because he's [I]too fat.[/I] Mansell is a whiner and annoying.[/quote]
Its funny 'cause its also true.
I like Button, but I [I]never[/I] saw him as a real contender for the world championship.
| Ferg | 08-08-2007 10:06 PM |
If the rumors are to be believed Prodrive will be on the '08 grid with customer McLaren's running Gary Paffett and Pedro DeLaRosa. They need to get a move on with thing though, my F1 plans are almost as far along as David Richard's...:huh:
| JoD | 08-08-2007 10:14 PM |
Okay, please forgive me if I misheard, or if this has been covered earlier, and I completely missed it....
Did anyone else recall hearing something during the race broadcast about Red Bull (yes, I think it was specifically Red Bull and not STR) making an announcement post race about Scott Speed's future?
Anyone?
Maybe I am just making things up.
And NYEJ25 - you and I are on the same page as far as the reasons for our dislike of Alonso.
Did anyone else recall hearing something during the race broadcast about Red Bull (yes, I think it was specifically Red Bull and not STR) making an announcement post race about Scott Speed's future?
Anyone?
Maybe I am just making things up.
And NYEJ25 - you and I are on the same page as far as the reasons for our dislike of Alonso.
| ptclaus98 | 08-08-2007 10:30 PM |
[QUOTE=JoD;18986271]Okay, please forgive me if I misheard, or if this has been covered earlier, and I completely missed it....
Did anyone else recall hearing something during the race broadcast about Red Bull (yes, I think it was specifically Red Bull and not STR) making an announcement post race about Scott Speed's future?
Anyone?
Maybe I am just making things up.
And NYEJ25 - you and I are on the same page as far as the reasons for our dislike of Alonso.[/QUOTE]
They were hoping someone would pick him up. I hope he goes to Prodrive, he could be quicker than Paffett.
Did anyone else recall hearing something during the race broadcast about Red Bull (yes, I think it was specifically Red Bull and not STR) making an announcement post race about Scott Speed's future?
Anyone?
Maybe I am just making things up.
And NYEJ25 - you and I are on the same page as far as the reasons for our dislike of Alonso.[/QUOTE]
They were hoping someone would pick him up. I hope he goes to Prodrive, he could be quicker than Paffett.
| StuBeck | 08-08-2007 11:03 PM |
[QUOTE=JoD;18986271]Okay, please forgive me if I misheard, or if this has been covered earlier, and I completely missed it....
Did anyone else recall hearing something during the race broadcast about Red Bull (yes, I think it was specifically Red Bull and not STR) making an announcement post race about Scott Speed's future?
Anyone?
Maybe I am just making things up.
And NYEJ25 - you and I are on the same page as far as the reasons for our dislike of Alonso.[/QUOTE]
Speed is still an STR test driver. There are no concrete plans on his future, but he is still well liked by the owner of Red Bull (not going to disrespect him by not spelling it correctly.) The likelyhood is he'll go to ChampCar. And yes, they did mention this during the broadcast, you're not losing your mind :)
Did anyone else recall hearing something during the race broadcast about Red Bull (yes, I think it was specifically Red Bull and not STR) making an announcement post race about Scott Speed's future?
Anyone?
Maybe I am just making things up.
And NYEJ25 - you and I are on the same page as far as the reasons for our dislike of Alonso.[/QUOTE]
Speed is still an STR test driver. There are no concrete plans on his future, but he is still well liked by the owner of Red Bull (not going to disrespect him by not spelling it correctly.) The likelyhood is he'll go to ChampCar. And yes, they did mention this during the broadcast, you're not losing your mind :)
| StuBeck | 08-09-2007 09:34 AM |
I just bought the tickets for Spa, 265 Euro's with shipping for the two "green" zone tickets. Not the best seats, but its cheap.
| artkevin | 08-09-2007 10:46 AM |
Watch out for the police dogs Stu. I heard they have REALLY sharp teeth.
| StuBeck | 08-09-2007 02:34 PM |
Haha, I'll keep my eye out for them.
| StuBeck | 08-10-2007 07:31 AM |
[quote=Autosport]Toro Rosso confirm Bourdais for 2008
By Pablo Elizalde Friday, August 10th 2007, 09:02 GMT
Scuderia Toro Rosso have confirmed three-time Champ Car champion Sebastien Bourdais will race for the team in 2008.
The Frenchman will join German Sebastian Vettel at the Italian squad next season.
"It has been a long time coming, but here we are," said Bourdais. "I would like to thank everyone at Red Bull for believing in me and giving me this long-awaited opportunity to race in Formula One.
"I must also thank Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing for letting me pursue my dream and allowing me to test for Scuderia Toro Rosso a few times this year."
The 28-year-old Frenchman will be free to join the team after the final round of this year's Champ Car Series on 2 December.[/quote]
Hope for the best for him, I wonder if Liuzzi will last the season. And who knew the Champ Car schedule went to DECEMBER?!
By Pablo Elizalde Friday, August 10th 2007, 09:02 GMT
Scuderia Toro Rosso have confirmed three-time Champ Car champion Sebastien Bourdais will race for the team in 2008.
The Frenchman will join German Sebastian Vettel at the Italian squad next season.
"It has been a long time coming, but here we are," said Bourdais. "I would like to thank everyone at Red Bull for believing in me and giving me this long-awaited opportunity to race in Formula One.
"I must also thank Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing for letting me pursue my dream and allowing me to test for Scuderia Toro Rosso a few times this year."
The 28-year-old Frenchman will be free to join the team after the final round of this year's Champ Car Series on 2 December.[/quote]
Hope for the best for him, I wonder if Liuzzi will last the season. And who knew the Champ Car schedule went to DECEMBER?!
| OnTheGas | 08-10-2007 01:08 PM |
Prodrive doesn't have a chassis yet
�
�
[QUOTE=StuBeck;18983582]Who? Prodrive? They are definitely on the grid next year.[/QUOTE]I read a story, or two, over the Hungaroring weekend that Prodrive is short of money to do the deal w/McLaren. And McLaren needs Prodrive to pony up the cash quickly, so that McLaren can build the support systems (supplies, logistics, personnel, etc.) to supply Prodrive for 2008.
| Ferg | 08-10-2007 01:09 PM |
I'm surprised he won't be bringing any of those McDonald's dollars with him...come to think of it, I'm surprised McDonald's already hasn't slapped the arches on a Grand Prix car.
When was the last time Coke had anything on an F1 machine? 1980's?
When was the last time Coke had anything on an F1 machine? 1980's?
| bitterWRX | 08-10-2007 02:38 PM |
[QUOTE=Ferg;19005056]I'm surprised he won't be bringing any of those McDonald's dollars with him...come to think of it, I'm surprised McDonald's already hasn't slapped the arches on a Grand Prix car.
When was the last time Coke had anything on an F1 machine? 1980's?[/QUOTE]
I am no business major. But my guess is because of the overall international success, the investment in an F1 team is not as profitable as it could be as compared to say 1980s. I guess Coke and McD see the investment too high and return too little to justify the sponsorship. McDonalds investment in Champ Car probably isn't nearly as much as a title sponsor for an F1 team.
Just wondering.
When was the last time Coke had anything on an F1 machine? 1980's?[/QUOTE]
I am no business major. But my guess is because of the overall international success, the investment in an F1 team is not as profitable as it could be as compared to say 1980s. I guess Coke and McD see the investment too high and return too little to justify the sponsorship. McDonalds investment in Champ Car probably isn't nearly as much as a title sponsor for an F1 team.
Just wondering.
| artkevin | 08-10-2007 04:06 PM |
[QUOTE=Ferg;19005056]I'm surprised he won't be bringing any of those McDonald's dollars with him...come to think of it, I'm surprised McDonald's already hasn't slapped the arches on a Grand Prix car.
When was the last time Coke had anything on an F1 machine? 1980's?[/QUOTE]
Is 7up owned by Coke? If so, then it was on the Jordan's when Schumi was there.
I've been trying to find out the McDonald's thing myself. I couldn't tell if they were a Bourdais or a Newmann Haas sponsor or a combo of both.
When was the last time Coke had anything on an F1 machine? 1980's?[/QUOTE]
Is 7up owned by Coke? If so, then it was on the Jordan's when Schumi was there.
I've been trying to find out the McDonald's thing myself. I couldn't tell if they were a Bourdais or a Newmann Haas sponsor or a combo of both.
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