| bpwatts | 05-09-2006 05:20 PM |
'04 STi in SM?
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So as it turns out, deleting the default STi trunk and wing and adding a CF deck lid basically means you're in SM for life. Is it worth it to put the car into SM? We shall soon find out. My STi was basically stock aside from the steering rack bushings, TBE, and some shifter bushings. I still managed to stay only 4 -5 seconds behind the true SM STi's at a recent event.
Besides R Compounds, harness, and interior removal....I guess the sky is the limit as far as mods go? I shouldn't need too much as from what I've learned thus far, its all driver. Car matters little (aside from tires).
I'd welcome any discussion on making an SM competitive (regional only, not crazy enough for divisionals or nationals yet) 04 STi!
Besides R Compounds, harness, and interior removal....I guess the sky is the limit as far as mods go? I shouldn't need too much as from what I've learned thus far, its all driver. Car matters little (aside from tires).
I'd welcome any discussion on making an SM competitive (regional only, not crazy enough for divisionals or nationals yet) 04 STi!
| alltracin | 05-09-2006 05:32 PM |
"besides" those things?
You can have harnesses
You can have R-comps
You can not remove interior
Essentially you can't change suspension mounting locations or weld things in. Get some coils, R-comps, and tune that thing and have fun :devil:
You can have harnesses
You can have R-comps
You can not remove interior
Essentially you can't change suspension mounting locations or weld things in. Get some coils, R-comps, and tune that thing and have fun :devil:
| bpwatts | 05-09-2006 05:51 PM |
[QUOTE=alltracin]"besides" those things?
You can have harnesses
You can have R-comps
You can not remove interior
Essentially you can't change suspension mounting locations or weld things in. Get some coils, R-comps, and tune that thing and have fun :devil:[/QUOTE]
The car is in SM, you can remove interior in SM I thought...I was looking for a laundry list of other things I haven't looked for yet.
You can have harnesses
You can have R-comps
You can not remove interior
Essentially you can't change suspension mounting locations or weld things in. Get some coils, R-comps, and tune that thing and have fun :devil:[/QUOTE]
The car is in SM, you can remove interior in SM I thought...I was looking for a laundry list of other things I haven't looked for yet.
| Patrick L | 05-09-2006 06:10 PM |
You can remove the back seat and that about it for inside.
look at the rules at scca.org
We could give you a LOOOOONNNNGGGG list of stuff you can do. For example, check out the new SM Cobb STI
[url]http://www.cobbtuning.com/project_cars.html[/url]
look at the rules at scca.org
We could give you a LOOOOONNNNGGGG list of stuff you can do. For example, check out the new SM Cobb STI
[url]http://www.cobbtuning.com/project_cars.html[/url]
| bpwatts | 05-09-2006 06:14 PM |
[QUOTE=Top_Dog]You can remove the back seat and that about it for inside.
look at the rules at scca.org
We could give you a LOOOOONNNNGGGG list of stuff you can do. For example, check out the new SM Cobb STI
[url]http://www.cobbtuning.com/project_cars.html[/url][/QUOTE]
I was 5.4 seconds behind that Cobb STi. It was at the TMS event last weekend. That 5.4 seconds was me running in a stock STi with only TBE, steering rack bushings, shifter bushings, street tires, and the carbon fiber deck lid.
I timed in with a 57.7, I think the Cobb finished with a 53.3. Not too shabby. Reading that page is just a wishlist of Cobb parts. I mean, more power obviously isn't the answer. Is there a concensus on sway bar manufacturers? Widely used harnesses? Lightweight rims?
look at the rules at scca.org
We could give you a LOOOOONNNNGGGG list of stuff you can do. For example, check out the new SM Cobb STI
[url]http://www.cobbtuning.com/project_cars.html[/url][/QUOTE]
I was 5.4 seconds behind that Cobb STi. It was at the TMS event last weekend. That 5.4 seconds was me running in a stock STi with only TBE, steering rack bushings, shifter bushings, street tires, and the carbon fiber deck lid.
I timed in with a 57.7, I think the Cobb finished with a 53.3. Not too shabby. Reading that page is just a wishlist of Cobb parts. I mean, more power obviously isn't the answer. Is there a concensus on sway bar manufacturers? Widely used harnesses? Lightweight rims?
| stil2stock | 05-09-2006 06:14 PM |
[QUOTE=bpwatts] I still managed to stay only 4 -5 seconds behind the true SM STi's at a recent event. [/QUOTE]
ONLY??!?!!! 4 - 5 seconds is an eternity for autoX unless your comparing a C mod car to someone's daily driver.
you definately CAN remove SOME interior bits in SM. I know for a fact you can remove the "Rear passenger seats, including restraints and associated hardware". - directly from rule book. If you want the laundry list, see the rule book at SCCA.org.
ONLY??!?!!! 4 - 5 seconds is an eternity for autoX unless your comparing a C mod car to someone's daily driver.
you definately CAN remove SOME interior bits in SM. I know for a fact you can remove the "Rear passenger seats, including restraints and associated hardware". - directly from rule book. If you want the laundry list, see the rule book at SCCA.org.
| bpwatts | 05-09-2006 06:25 PM |
[QUOTE=stil2stock]ONLY??!?!!! 4 - 5 seconds is an eternity for autoX unless your comparing a C mod car to someone's daily driver.
you definately CAN remove SOME interior bits in SM. I know for a fact you can remove the "Rear passenger seats, including restraints and associated hardware". - directly from rule book. If you want the laundry list, see the rule book at SCCA.org.[/QUOTE]
For the record, I'm comparing a car in AS against a fully race prepped SM car. Does anyone read previous posts anymore? So....
4-5 seconds isn't an eternity. The Cobb STi was running full slicks, 550whp, properly tuned and harnessed. My car was stock (save the TBE). Hell, Heist was 1.3 seconds off and he's in the RS STi beast. I'm not looking for a critique of my supposed driving skill or lack thereof. Thanks.
you definately CAN remove SOME interior bits in SM. I know for a fact you can remove the "Rear passenger seats, including restraints and associated hardware". - directly from rule book. If you want the laundry list, see the rule book at SCCA.org.[/QUOTE]
For the record, I'm comparing a car in AS against a fully race prepped SM car. Does anyone read previous posts anymore? So....
4-5 seconds isn't an eternity. The Cobb STi was running full slicks, 550whp, properly tuned and harnessed. My car was stock (save the TBE). Hell, Heist was 1.3 seconds off and he's in the RS STi beast. I'm not looking for a critique of my supposed driving skill or lack thereof. Thanks.
| alltracin | 05-09-2006 06:37 PM |
Basically, the rules are too long for us to list them for you. By the way, full slicks are not allowed in SM. They are R-compounds. Just because they don't have tread doesn't make them slicks :p
ps you keep mentioning harnesses. They make the least difference of anything you'll do IMO...
ps you keep mentioning harnesses. They make the least difference of anything you'll do IMO...
| zzyzx | 05-09-2006 06:57 PM |
[QUOTE=bpwatts]I timed in with a 57.7, I think the Cobb finished with a 53.3. Not too shabby. Reading that page is just a wishlist of Cobb parts. I mean, more power obviously isn't the answer. Is there a concensus on sway bar manufacturers? Widely used harnesses? Lightweight rims?[/QUOTE]
57.7 in AS with a PAX of 0.831, index time of 47.949
53.3 in SM with a PAX of 0.845, index time of 45.039
47.949 - 45.039 = 2.951
Now, you said you're still on street tires, so that's not exactly a fair comparison, but with an indexed deficit of 2.951 seconds, tires won't make up for that deficit.
I think you're money is best spent at this point in time on an Evolution school.
57.7 in AS with a PAX of 0.831, index time of 47.949
53.3 in SM with a PAX of 0.845, index time of 45.039
47.949 - 45.039 = 2.951
Now, you said you're still on street tires, so that's not exactly a fair comparison, but with an indexed deficit of 2.951 seconds, tires won't make up for that deficit.
I think you're money is best spent at this point in time on an Evolution school.
| leecea | 05-09-2006 07:35 PM |
I think it is hard to use PAX to compare cars that are underdogs in their classes. You are really comparing an AS Corvette/S2000 with an SM M3.
Also, he did say just locally competitive and the Cobb car seems more like a Div/Natl preped car.
I think a set of 710s and a well sorted suspension could get him 2-3 secs raw time. The rest will be hard work!
Also, he did say just locally competitive and the Cobb car seems more like a Div/Natl preped car.
I think a set of 710s and a well sorted suspension could get him 2-3 secs raw time. The rest will be hard work!
| bpwatts | 05-09-2006 08:40 PM |
[QUOTE=zzyzx]57.7 in AS with a PAX of 0.831, index time of 47.949
53.3 in SM with a PAX of 0.845, index time of 45.039
47.949 - 45.039 = 2.951
Now, you said you're still on street tires, so that's not exactly a fair comparison, but with an indexed deficit of 2.951 seconds, tires won't make up for that deficit.
I think you're money is best spent at this point in time on an Evolution school.[/QUOTE]
Yeesh, you people are so horribly nice in the Motorsports forum. Thanks for showing me how basic math works. I've had my STi for 3 weeks. I'm sorry I'm 2.951 indexed seconds behind a 550whp professionally driven fully prepped SM car. I brought up the Cobb STi as a comparison in car setup, NOT to say I'm interested in beating the vehicle in all aspects.
I was merely looking for recommendations as far as suspension and driver config goes. leecea seems to be the only person who "got it"...
53.3 in SM with a PAX of 0.845, index time of 45.039
47.949 - 45.039 = 2.951
Now, you said you're still on street tires, so that's not exactly a fair comparison, but with an indexed deficit of 2.951 seconds, tires won't make up for that deficit.
I think you're money is best spent at this point in time on an Evolution school.[/QUOTE]
Yeesh, you people are so horribly nice in the Motorsports forum. Thanks for showing me how basic math works. I've had my STi for 3 weeks. I'm sorry I'm 2.951 indexed seconds behind a 550whp professionally driven fully prepped SM car. I brought up the Cobb STi as a comparison in car setup, NOT to say I'm interested in beating the vehicle in all aspects.
I was merely looking for recommendations as far as suspension and driver config goes. leecea seems to be the only person who "got it"...
| adhowe70 | 05-09-2006 08:47 PM |
[QUOTE=bpwatts]So as it turns out, deleting the default STi trunk and wing and adding a CF deck lid basically means you're in SM for life.[/QUOTE]
Unless the SM rules have changed since I last looked, a CF deck lid is not SM legal.
Unless the SM rules have changed since I last looked, a CF deck lid is not SM legal.
| squirrelgripper | 05-09-2006 10:14 PM |
[QUOTE=adhowe70]Unless the SM rules have changed since I last looked, a CF deck lid is not SM legal.[/QUOTE]
x2
This would move you to a Prepared class, IIRC.
In terms of body panels you can replace the hood, bumpers, front and rear fascia and front quarter panels.
Also, your time wasn't that fast, but with more practice the sky is the limit.
Aside from seat time, the best mod is race tires.
x2
This would move you to a Prepared class, IIRC.
In terms of body panels you can replace the hood, bumpers, front and rear fascia and front quarter panels.
Also, your time wasn't that fast, but with more practice the sky is the limit.
Aside from seat time, the best mod is race tires.
| bpwatts | 05-09-2006 10:20 PM |
[QUOTE=squirrelgripper]x2
This would move you to a Prepared class, IIRC.
In terms of body panels you can replace the hood, bumpers, front and rear fascia and front quarter panels.
Also, your time wasn't that fast, but with more practice the sky is the limit.
Aside from seat time, the best mod is race tires.[/QUOTE]
Hmm...you both may be correct, but I'm not planning on running divisionals or nationals (i.e. whatever class i tell them is what class i'm in). It seems kinda silly that adding CF bumps me to prepared. Is it the weight reduction? What if I run with an equivalent amount of dead weight in the trunk? Could I be back in AS/BSP?
I wanted that wing gone purely for visibility, not performance. Texas isn't known for its terrific drivers.
I find it amazing "your times aren't great" when I'm 5 seconds behind a 550whp car and 4 seconds from an RS STi swap...both cars on R Compounds and fully race prepped. You guys are like the dad that's never content with anything but complete domination. I invite you all to TMS on June 18th so I can laugh at you when you don't beat the BM and DM cars in your stock STi's. :lol:
This would move you to a Prepared class, IIRC.
In terms of body panels you can replace the hood, bumpers, front and rear fascia and front quarter panels.
Also, your time wasn't that fast, but with more practice the sky is the limit.
Aside from seat time, the best mod is race tires.[/QUOTE]
Hmm...you both may be correct, but I'm not planning on running divisionals or nationals (i.e. whatever class i tell them is what class i'm in). It seems kinda silly that adding CF bumps me to prepared. Is it the weight reduction? What if I run with an equivalent amount of dead weight in the trunk? Could I be back in AS/BSP?
I wanted that wing gone purely for visibility, not performance. Texas isn't known for its terrific drivers.
I find it amazing "your times aren't great" when I'm 5 seconds behind a 550whp car and 4 seconds from an RS STi swap...both cars on R Compounds and fully race prepped. You guys are like the dad that's never content with anything but complete domination. I invite you all to TMS on June 18th so I can laugh at you when you don't beat the BM and DM cars in your stock STi's. :lol:
| skuttledude | 05-09-2006 10:22 PM |
best mod......
get as much seat time as you can, get an evo school and sit shotgun in as many cars (of any kind) as you can. Have fun
I spent over a year in stock class. Many times I wish I was still in that class to get to know my car even more.
Don't worry about what class you are in, or what you need to be in X class. Just get the seat time. AutoX every month (more if you can). You'll get better every time and be much happier.
get as much seat time as you can, get an evo school and sit shotgun in as many cars (of any kind) as you can. Have fun
I spent over a year in stock class. Many times I wish I was still in that class to get to know my car even more.
Don't worry about what class you are in, or what you need to be in X class. Just get the seat time. AutoX every month (more if you can). You'll get better every time and be much happier.
| bpwatts | 05-09-2006 10:27 PM |
Seat time not withstanding, I fully get that I need to get to more schools. That wasn't my original question, but I appreciate the input. I'm smart enough to know that me with 2 years experience and other drivers with 17 may have me beat by a bit. Thanks for the stunning insight. Could we possibly get to......
......I was purely looking for recommendations on suspension setups (sways, towers, wheels, tires, springs, struts) and driver configuration options (harnesses, seats).
......I was purely looking for recommendations on suspension setups (sways, towers, wheels, tires, springs, struts) and driver configuration options (harnesses, seats).
| skuttledude | 05-09-2006 10:50 PM |
I have a pretty good regional-level SM car. Coilovers, EM, sway bars, and other mods. However I'm afraid that sharing my "stunning insight" into my setup or recommendations might not be what you are looking for.
| bpwatts | 05-09-2006 10:57 PM |
[QUOTE=Davis K Powers]I have a pretty good regional-level SM car. Coilovers, EM, sway bars, and other mods. However I'm afraid that sharing my "stunning insight" into my setup or recommendations might not be what you are looking for.[/QUOTE]
That's EXACTLY what I'm looking for. :lol:
[QUOTE=me damnit]
......I was purely looking for recommendations on suspension setups (sways, towers, wheels, tires, springs, struts) and driver configuration options (harnesses, seats).
[/QUOTE]
That's EXACTLY what I'm looking for. :lol:
[QUOTE=me damnit]
......I was purely looking for recommendations on suspension setups (sways, towers, wheels, tires, springs, struts) and driver configuration options (harnesses, seats).
[/QUOTE]
| mykrrrr | 05-09-2006 11:09 PM |
AFAIRemember, you can remove interior from the B pillar back (seats, trim, carpet)
EMS, R comps, suspension and big wide rims will help out too...
EMS, R comps, suspension and big wide rims will help out too...
| adhowe70 | 05-09-2006 11:43 PM |
[QUOTE=mykrrrr]AFAIRemember, you can remove interior from the B pillar back (seats, trim, carpet) [/QUOTE]
Not in SM... rear seats and seat belts only. The rest of the interior trim must be intact, including trunk trim.
Not in SM... rear seats and seat belts only. The rest of the interior trim must be intact, including trunk trim.
| wm07 | 05-09-2006 11:58 PM |
so you are looking for a list? someone already posted it for you earlier! you must have missed it! :lol:
Oh, on the carbon trunk, it's a no no for SM too. So you might as well prep for a Prepared/Mod class.
[QUOTE=Top_Dog]You can remove the back seat and that about it for inside.
look at the rules at scca.org
We could give you a LOOOOONNNNGGGG list of stuff you can do. For example, check out the new SM Cobb STI
[url]http://www.cobbtuning.com/project_cars.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Oh, on the carbon trunk, it's a no no for SM too. So you might as well prep for a Prepared/Mod class.
[QUOTE=Top_Dog]You can remove the back seat and that about it for inside.
look at the rules at scca.org
We could give you a LOOOOONNNNGGGG list of stuff you can do. For example, check out the new SM Cobb STI
[url]http://www.cobbtuning.com/project_cars.html[/url][/QUOTE]
| zzyzx | 05-10-2006 01:24 AM |
[QUOTE=bpwatts]I was merely looking for recommendations as far as suspension and [b]driver config[/b] goes. leecea seems to be the only person who "got it"...[/QUOTE]
Yes, and I was commenting on "driver config". Focus on adjusting the loose nut behind the wheel and you'll probably close that gap of 2.9 indexed seconds. ;)
Yes, and I was commenting on "driver config". Focus on adjusting the loose nut behind the wheel and you'll probably close that gap of 2.9 indexed seconds. ;)
| Storm | 05-10-2006 02:01 AM |
[QUOTE=bpwatts]Seat time not withstanding, I fully get that I need to get to more schools. That wasn't my original question, but I appreciate the input. I'm smart enough to know that me with 2 years experience and other drivers with 17 may have me beat by a bit. Thanks for the stunning insight. Could we possibly get to......
......I was purely looking for recommendations on suspension setups (sways, towers, wheels, tires, springs, struts) and driver configuration options (harnesses, seats).[/QUOTE]All of this info has been listed many times in the past.
[QUOTE]Hmm...you both may be correct, but I'm not planning on running divisionals or nationals (i.e. whatever class i tell them is what class i'm in). It seems kinda silly that adding CF bumps me to prepared. Is it the weight reduction? What if I run with an equivalent amount of dead weight in the trunk? Could I be back in AS/BSP? [/QUOTE]We can't simply bend the rules to fit your visual tastes. If you're halfway serious about competing, you would prep for the class. If you don't care what class you get stuck in...it doesn't matter what the hot setup is, as long as you improve your own times from run to run.
[QUOTE]I wanted that wing gone purely for visibility, not performance. Texas isn't known for its terrific drivers.[/QUOTE]Texas has is fair share of national champions, maybe not in your region.
[QUOTE]I find it amazing "your times aren't great" when I'm 5 seconds behind a 550whp car and 4 seconds from an RS STi swap...both cars on R Compounds and fully race prepped. You guys are like the dad that's never content with anything but complete domination. I invite you all to TMS on June 18th so I can laugh at you when you don't beat the BM and DM cars in your stock STi's. :lol:[/QUOTE]There are RS's [b]without swaps[/b] that get closer to STis (and sometimes beat them outright) with more than twice the WHP.....Your times aren't that great and shouldn't be if you're still on street tires.
......I was purely looking for recommendations on suspension setups (sways, towers, wheels, tires, springs, struts) and driver configuration options (harnesses, seats).[/QUOTE]All of this info has been listed many times in the past.
[QUOTE]Hmm...you both may be correct, but I'm not planning on running divisionals or nationals (i.e. whatever class i tell them is what class i'm in). It seems kinda silly that adding CF bumps me to prepared. Is it the weight reduction? What if I run with an equivalent amount of dead weight in the trunk? Could I be back in AS/BSP? [/QUOTE]We can't simply bend the rules to fit your visual tastes. If you're halfway serious about competing, you would prep for the class. If you don't care what class you get stuck in...it doesn't matter what the hot setup is, as long as you improve your own times from run to run.
[QUOTE]I wanted that wing gone purely for visibility, not performance. Texas isn't known for its terrific drivers.[/QUOTE]Texas has is fair share of national champions, maybe not in your region.
[QUOTE]I find it amazing "your times aren't great" when I'm 5 seconds behind a 550whp car and 4 seconds from an RS STi swap...both cars on R Compounds and fully race prepped. You guys are like the dad that's never content with anything but complete domination. I invite you all to TMS on June 18th so I can laugh at you when you don't beat the BM and DM cars in your stock STi's. :lol:[/QUOTE]There are RS's [b]without swaps[/b] that get closer to STis (and sometimes beat them outright) with more than twice the WHP.....Your times aren't that great and shouldn't be if you're still on street tires.
| bpwatts | 05-10-2006 08:05 AM |
[QUOTE=wm07]so you are looking for a list? someone already posted it for you earlier! you must have missed it! :lol:
Oh, on the carbon trunk, it's a no no for SM too. So you might as well prep for a Prepared/Mod class.[/QUOTE]
I'll have to ask the local chapters if they'd be cool with me replacing the weight lost by the CF deck lid with dead weight in the trunk so I can still run in a useful class. This is a daily driver that I have no intention of moving to a prepared class. If it gets to that point, I'll go buy a stock subaru trunk and run with that on AX days. So far, Texas Region is happy with me being in SM and I think I could do enough to have fun in that class.
Oh, on the carbon trunk, it's a no no for SM too. So you might as well prep for a Prepared/Mod class.[/QUOTE]
I'll have to ask the local chapters if they'd be cool with me replacing the weight lost by the CF deck lid with dead weight in the trunk so I can still run in a useful class. This is a daily driver that I have no intention of moving to a prepared class. If it gets to that point, I'll go buy a stock subaru trunk and run with that on AX days. So far, Texas Region is happy with me being in SM and I think I could do enough to have fun in that class.
| gregr01 | 05-10-2006 09:44 AM |
[QUOTE=bpwatts] So far, Texas Region is happy with me being in SM and I think I could do enough to have fun in that class.[/QUOTE] As long as you aren't beating anyone who cares they'll be happy. As soon as you start intruding upon the event or series standings you'll be protested to your correct class (where you should already be running).
Since you're not legal for SM but run there anyway, why aren't you in BSP? Softer PAX, and you're jus as illegal there.
My '04 is "local SM competitive" (i.e. 1st or 2nd the last few events in SM) with EM, coilovers/sways & 245 V710s. It's BSP legal as well, but I'd be competing against myself so I go where the numbers are. It'd be a lot faster with a better driver. ;)
Since you're not legal for SM but run there anyway, why aren't you in BSP? Softer PAX, and you're jus as illegal there.
My '04 is "local SM competitive" (i.e. 1st or 2nd the last few events in SM) with EM, coilovers/sways & 245 V710s. It's BSP legal as well, but I'd be competing against myself so I go where the numbers are. It'd be a lot faster with a better driver. ;)
| SloRice | 05-10-2006 10:02 AM |
So you want to have a competative [b]CAR[/b] on a local level? That's easy to do. But then you have to make yourself a competative driver. If you do that, you should win every local event.
Here's my recommendations for car setup for local level competition. This is pretty close to the setup I ran last year and I won SM by at least a second every week. But I finished mid-pack amongst all the local national level drivers in PAX. Then I also finished mid-pack at the National Tour events I went to.
[u]Engine[/u]
-Turboback
-Engine Management with the boost turned up
[u]Suspension[/u]
-Coilovers - pick a set. From what I hear, the new Tein Flex coilovers are a pretty good choice for auto-x as long as you swap the front and rear springs.
-Swaybars - Strano Motorsports 32mm Front Sway Bar; No rear sway bar, stock RSB or a mildly larger RSB (Perrin)
- Front Camber: ~-3*; Rear Camber: ~-1.5*
- Front Caster: stock
- Front Toe: small amount of toe out - don't know the amount though; Rear Toe: 0
[u]Wheels and Tires[/u]
-Get a lightweight set of 17x8 or 17x9 wheels - not sure of any wheel manufacturers that fit over the Brembos. I personally ran the stock 7.5" wide BBS's with the 245/45/17 V710's without problems.
-For tires, go with the Kumho V710's in a 245/45/17
Here's my recommendations for car setup for local level competition. This is pretty close to the setup I ran last year and I won SM by at least a second every week. But I finished mid-pack amongst all the local national level drivers in PAX. Then I also finished mid-pack at the National Tour events I went to.
[u]Engine[/u]
-Turboback
-Engine Management with the boost turned up
[u]Suspension[/u]
-Coilovers - pick a set. From what I hear, the new Tein Flex coilovers are a pretty good choice for auto-x as long as you swap the front and rear springs.
-Swaybars - Strano Motorsports 32mm Front Sway Bar; No rear sway bar, stock RSB or a mildly larger RSB (Perrin)
- Front Camber: ~-3*; Rear Camber: ~-1.5*
- Front Caster: stock
- Front Toe: small amount of toe out - don't know the amount though; Rear Toe: 0
[u]Wheels and Tires[/u]
-Get a lightweight set of 17x8 or 17x9 wheels - not sure of any wheel manufacturers that fit over the Brembos. I personally ran the stock 7.5" wide BBS's with the 245/45/17 V710's without problems.
-For tires, go with the Kumho V710's in a 245/45/17
| bpwatts | 05-10-2006 10:16 AM |
[QUOTE=SloRice]So you want to have a competative [b]CAR[/b] on a local level? That's easy to do. But then you have to make yourself a competative driver. If you do that, you should win every local event.
Here's my recommendations for car setup for local level competition. This is pretty close to the setup I ran last year and I won SM by at least a second every week. But I finished mid-pack amongst all the local national level drivers in PAX. Then I also finished mid-pack at the National Tour events I went to.
[u]Engine[/u]
-Turboback
-Engine Management with the boost turned up
[u]Suspension[/u]
-Coilovers - pick a set. From what I hear, the new Tein Flex coilovers are a pretty good choice for auto-x as long as you swap the front and rear springs.
-Swaybars - Strano Motorsports 32mm Front Sway Bar; No rear sway bar, stock RSB or a mildly larger RSB (Perrin)
- Front Camber: ~-3*; Rear Camber: ~-1.5*
- Front Caster: stock
- Front Toe: small amount of toe out - don't know the amount though; Rear Toe: 0
[u]Wheels and Tires[/u]
-Get a lightweight set of 17x8 or 17x9 wheels - not sure of any wheel manufacturers that fit over the Brembos. I personally ran the stock 7.5" wide BBS's with the 245/45/17 V710's without problems.
-For tires, go with the Kumho V710's in a 245/45/17[/QUOTE]
Perfect. Let me throw some research into those and I'll get back to you. Have any of those old parts lying around I could buy off ya? :) I've been told to pick up Whiteline sways by two folks now, adjustables. As far as camber goes, I can only assume that I'll need to get a whole new suspension setup if I go that route.
If I'm just as illegal in SM as I am in BSP, then what class does this put me in? BM? AM?
Here's my recommendations for car setup for local level competition. This is pretty close to the setup I ran last year and I won SM by at least a second every week. But I finished mid-pack amongst all the local national level drivers in PAX. Then I also finished mid-pack at the National Tour events I went to.
[u]Engine[/u]
-Turboback
-Engine Management with the boost turned up
[u]Suspension[/u]
-Coilovers - pick a set. From what I hear, the new Tein Flex coilovers are a pretty good choice for auto-x as long as you swap the front and rear springs.
-Swaybars - Strano Motorsports 32mm Front Sway Bar; No rear sway bar, stock RSB or a mildly larger RSB (Perrin)
- Front Camber: ~-3*; Rear Camber: ~-1.5*
- Front Caster: stock
- Front Toe: small amount of toe out - don't know the amount though; Rear Toe: 0
[u]Wheels and Tires[/u]
-Get a lightweight set of 17x8 or 17x9 wheels - not sure of any wheel manufacturers that fit over the Brembos. I personally ran the stock 7.5" wide BBS's with the 245/45/17 V710's without problems.
-For tires, go with the Kumho V710's in a 245/45/17[/QUOTE]
Perfect. Let me throw some research into those and I'll get back to you. Have any of those old parts lying around I could buy off ya? :) I've been told to pick up Whiteline sways by two folks now, adjustables. As far as camber goes, I can only assume that I'll need to get a whole new suspension setup if I go that route.
If I'm just as illegal in SM as I am in BSP, then what class does this put me in? BM? AM?
| SloRice | 05-10-2006 10:32 AM |
I have the coilovers and the Perrin RSB for sale.
Camber adjustability is going to come from camber plates in the front and camber bolts in the rear.
I would think the CF trunklid would put you in a Prepared class as that's the next step after SM. Just don't know which one.
Camber adjustability is going to come from camber plates in the front and camber bolts in the rear.
I would think the CF trunklid would put you in a Prepared class as that's the next step after SM. Just don't know which one.
| adhowe70 | 05-10-2006 11:53 AM |
XP is the bump up from SM. Though the car may be legal for FP or whatever Prepared class the STi naturally goes into.
| AtomicRacer | 05-10-2006 12:35 PM |
[QUOTE=zzyzx]57.7 in AS with a PAX of 0.831, index time of 47.949
53.3 in SM with a PAX of 0.845, index time of 45.039
47.949 - 45.039 = 2.951
Now, you said you're still on street tires, so that's not exactly a fair comparison, but with an indexed deficit of 2.951 seconds, tires won't make up for that deficit.
I think you're money is best spent at this point in time on an Evolution school.[/QUOTE]
Now lets add the winning STU car.
43.6 with a PAX of 0.820, index time of 43.952
47.949 - 43.952 = 3.997
Now that car was on street tires. Kinda puts things in perspective doesn't it.
-Paul
53.3 in SM with a PAX of 0.845, index time of 45.039
47.949 - 45.039 = 2.951
Now, you said you're still on street tires, so that's not exactly a fair comparison, but with an indexed deficit of 2.951 seconds, tires won't make up for that deficit.
I think you're money is best spent at this point in time on an Evolution school.[/QUOTE]
Now lets add the winning STU car.
43.6 with a PAX of 0.820, index time of 43.952
47.949 - 43.952 = 3.997
Now that car was on street tires. Kinda puts things in perspective doesn't it.
-Paul
| Butt Dyno | 05-10-2006 12:41 PM |
[QUOTE=AtomicRacer]Now lets add the winning STU car.
43.6 with a PAX of 0.820, index time of 43.952
47.949 - 43.952 = 3.997
Now that car was on street tires. Kinda puts things in perspective doesn't it.
-Paul[/QUOTE]
So, the Cobb car was .3 sec faster around an autox course than an STU STi?
43.6 with a PAX of 0.820, index time of 43.952
47.949 - 43.952 = 3.997
Now that car was on street tires. Kinda puts things in perspective doesn't it.
-Paul[/QUOTE]
So, the Cobb car was .3 sec faster around an autox course than an STU STi?
| wm07 | 05-10-2006 01:05 PM |
wow! didn't know the Cobb car is a show car instead of a race car. :lol:
| zzyzx | 05-10-2006 01:45 PM |
[QUOTE=wm07]wow! didn't know the Cobb car is a show car instead of a race car. :lol:[/QUOTE]
Well, the original Conebasher was a show car, too! ;) :devil:
Well, the original Conebasher was a show car, too! ;) :devil:
| makofoto | 05-10-2006 02:14 PM |
We have a number of STI's running Tein Flex's out here ... the front/rear spring swap is only for WRX's ... you don't need to do that for the STI's, they rotate easily enough already. A Tein Flex shod STI was third at the San Diego National Tour in STU. Max Hayter's '06 STI that won the ProSolo last weekend is using Cusco coilovers.
A lot of people are using the Strano's 32 mm hollow front bar or the 27 mm solid Whiteline. 9" wheels are becoming popular on STU STI's ... need at least that for SM.
I ran a SM WRX last year, using springs in the 450 to 650 range, 245 R tires (710's in 245/45/17 and S-05's in 245/40/17), 8.5" Slipstreams, Hotchkis hollow 1" bars, Ecutek engine management, Poweflex bushings, RevLab steering rack, light flywheel. Destroyed 2nd gear at the 2nd to last event. You shouldn't have that problem with your 6 speed. I came in 4th locally, beat the Champ once, couple of 2nds, three 3rds, but also some 5th and 6th. Found out that I had a blown strut. Nice that you can have the Flex's rebuilt here for $100/per. Big deal to have the Cusco's rebuilt.
At the '05 San Diego National Tour, where I drove extra poorly, I was still 4 sec/lap slower then the National Champ, Vic Sias and his full street modifed M3.
Vic:
[IMG]http://images1.fotki.com/v290/photos/4/43793/836092/sias_finish-vi.jpg[/IMG]
Pete Loney Image
Me & my WRX :-)
[IMG]http://images9.fotki.com/v163/photos/4/43793/1961534/MakoSatNight-vi.jpg[/IMG]
A lot of people are using the Strano's 32 mm hollow front bar or the 27 mm solid Whiteline. 9" wheels are becoming popular on STU STI's ... need at least that for SM.
I ran a SM WRX last year, using springs in the 450 to 650 range, 245 R tires (710's in 245/45/17 and S-05's in 245/40/17), 8.5" Slipstreams, Hotchkis hollow 1" bars, Ecutek engine management, Poweflex bushings, RevLab steering rack, light flywheel. Destroyed 2nd gear at the 2nd to last event. You shouldn't have that problem with your 6 speed. I came in 4th locally, beat the Champ once, couple of 2nds, three 3rds, but also some 5th and 6th. Found out that I had a blown strut. Nice that you can have the Flex's rebuilt here for $100/per. Big deal to have the Cusco's rebuilt.
At the '05 San Diego National Tour, where I drove extra poorly, I was still 4 sec/lap slower then the National Champ, Vic Sias and his full street modifed M3.
Vic:
[IMG]http://images1.fotki.com/v290/photos/4/43793/836092/sias_finish-vi.jpg[/IMG]
Pete Loney Image
Me & my WRX :-)
[IMG]http://images9.fotki.com/v163/photos/4/43793/1961534/MakoSatNight-vi.jpg[/IMG]
| afpdl | 05-10-2006 03:13 PM |
[QUOTE=wm07]wow! didn't know the Cobb car is a show car instead of a race car. :lol:[/QUOTE]
Its not exactly incredibly quick. I dont run against the cobb car that often but In an STU car Ive been about a second back when I dont suck, a well driven AS STi is less than a second back, and at the national tour last month SM was won by a ESP car running in SM, second/third was a STU M3 with 710s and then the cobb car.
I am fairly certain that most well driven STU stis would be competive with the cobb car if they just added some 710s...it wouldnt look nearly as cool though!
Its not exactly incredibly quick. I dont run against the cobb car that often but In an STU car Ive been about a second back when I dont suck, a well driven AS STi is less than a second back, and at the national tour last month SM was won by a ESP car running in SM, second/third was a STU M3 with 710s and then the cobb car.
I am fairly certain that most well driven STU stis would be competive with the cobb car if they just added some 710s...it wouldnt look nearly as cool though!
| AtomicRacer | 05-11-2006 04:00 PM |
[QUOTE=ButtDyno]So, the Cobb car was .3 sec faster around an autox course than an STU STi?[/QUOTE]
No, it was .3 seconds faster around the autox course than a STU M3.
-Paul
No, it was .3 seconds faster around the autox course than a STU M3.
-Paul
| Butt Dyno | 05-11-2006 04:50 PM |
[QUOTE=AtomicRacer]No, it was .3 seconds faster around the autox course than a STU M3.
-Paul[/QUOTE]
Oh.
:lol:
-Paul[/QUOTE]
Oh.
:lol:
| WRX8XB | 05-11-2006 06:03 PM |
[QUOTE=adhowe70]Not in SM... rear seats and seat belts only. The rest of the interior trim must be intact, including trunk trim.[/QUOTE]
that little fake carpet crap?
haha :lol: damnit!
that little fake carpet crap?
haha :lol: damnit!
| boxerT | 05-11-2006 07:00 PM |
At McRee Subaru State Meet in Houston in March, the winning AS '04 STi on V710 race rubber was less than 0.8s off the COBB car in SM and ahead in PAX time.
| adhowe70 | 05-11-2006 09:51 PM |
[QUOTE=WRX8XB]that little fake carpet crap?
haha :lol: damnit![/QUOTE]
That fake carpet crap can go... even in stock class. But all of the side trim, etc. has to stay.
haha :lol: damnit![/QUOTE]
That fake carpet crap can go... even in stock class. But all of the side trim, etc. has to stay.
| Templar | 05-11-2006 10:00 PM |
If you are running at the same local events as the Cobb Conebastard II then it shouldn't matter that you have a non-SM legal trunk because the front bumper beam on it has either been replaced or had a substantial amount of it cut out to fit the FMIC. The intercooler is legal...but the modification to the bumper beam is not.
| zzyzx | 05-11-2006 11:02 PM |
[QUOTE=Templar]because the front bumper beam on it has either been replaced or had a substantial amount of it cut out to fit the FMIC. The intercooler is legal...but the modification to the bumper beam is not.[/QUOTE]
Oops. :eek:
Oops. :eek:
| WRX8XB | 05-11-2006 11:05 PM |
[QUOTE=adhowe70]That fake carpet crap can go... even in stock class. But all of the side trim, etc. has to stay.[/QUOTE]
that's what i was talking about :banana:
that's what i was talking about :banana:
| afpdl | 05-12-2006 01:28 AM |
[QUOTE=zzyzx]Oops. :eek:[/QUOTE]
I dont quite understand how modifying the rear door for fender flares is interpreted as a legal modification either.
I dont quite understand how modifying the rear door for fender flares is interpreted as a legal modification either.
| RumblingREX | 05-12-2006 08:26 AM |
I changed out my STi trunk for a non-wing lid. I was thinking of buying an old WRX wing, epoxy on magnets and straps! Hook the straps over the front of the trunk lid, and magnets keep it in place. Keeps me in STU, I hate to change trunks for every event. I still have my STi trunk lid
HomeDepot has some monster magnets!
J
HomeDepot has some monster magnets!
J
| SloRice | 05-12-2006 08:42 AM |
[QUOTE=Templar]If you are running at the same local events as the Cobb Conebastard II then it shouldn't matter that you have a non-SM legal trunk because the front bumper beam on it has either been replaced or had a substantial amount of it cut out to fit the FMIC. The intercooler is legal...but the modification to the bumper beam is not.[/QUOTE]
Worst rule evAr!!!! :furious:
Worst rule evAr!!!! :furious:
| WRX8XB | 05-12-2006 08:44 AM |
PE V mount :D
| SloRice | 05-12-2006 09:27 AM |
I don't think there is enough cooling capacity in the small intercooler included in the V-mount setups for a turbo like mine.
| WRX8XB | 05-12-2006 09:35 AM |
compared to, stock? or other small TMIC unit?
| SloRice | 05-12-2006 10:19 AM |
Well, here is the info I've found. The PE V-Mount dimesions came off their website but it was in Japanese, but the numbers seemed to fit based on how it looks.
Stock - can't find the dimensions right now
Perrin TMIC - 20x7.5x4 = 600 in^3
TurboXS TMIC - 19x8x4.5 = 684 in^3
PE V-Mount - 21.6x5.9x2.7 = 344 in^3
For the price, it doesn't seem like that much of a performance advantage. Seems more like a bling advantage. I might as well stick to the TMIC or take a sledge hammer to my bumper beam to get the FMIC to fit.
IMO the FMIC on a WRX or STI in SM is within "the spirit of the class" as its said in the rules. But until I start winning big races, I doubt anyone will care about me.
Stock - can't find the dimensions right now
Perrin TMIC - 20x7.5x4 = 600 in^3
TurboXS TMIC - 19x8x4.5 = 684 in^3
PE V-Mount - 21.6x5.9x2.7 = 344 in^3
For the price, it doesn't seem like that much of a performance advantage. Seems more like a bling advantage. I might as well stick to the TMIC or take a sledge hammer to my bumper beam to get the FMIC to fit.
IMO the FMIC on a WRX or STI in SM is within "the spirit of the class" as its said in the rules. But until I start winning big races, I doubt anyone will care about me.
| Templar | 05-12-2006 12:30 PM |
[QUOTE=SloRice] IMO the FMIC on a WRX or STI in SM is within "the spirit of the class" as its said in the rules. But until I start winning big races, I doubt anyone will care about me.[/QUOTE]
While it is true that the competitors won't care until you start winning, the "spirit of the class" bit is where racing starts running into problems.
You can make a front mount fit within the rules with a much larger core than stock. I did (19.5 x 9 x 4= 702 cu. in) with no heat soak. It cost me about $500 and 10 hours of my time. You have to lose the AC, but that is also legal within the rules.
While it is true that the competitors won't care until you start winning, the "spirit of the class" bit is where racing starts running into problems.
You can make a front mount fit within the rules with a much larger core than stock. I did (19.5 x 9 x 4= 702 cu. in) with no heat soak. It cost me about $500 and 10 hours of my time. You have to lose the AC, but that is also legal within the rules.
| Chris F | 05-12-2006 05:53 PM |
A little clarification for the nasioc crowd. I have been working on the white car's setup and my own driving in an attempt to get more competitive. The car makes 430whp, not 550whp, though neither # is a slouch! I have driven the car in competition twice, the Houston Tour and a Texas Region SCCA event last weekend. Sunday in Houston I was .912 behind Mark. In the time between I made a few tweeks to the setup. Last weekend I was .139 ahead of Mark, just over 1 second improvement, I'm happy with that. I plan on rubbing a bit more rust off and continue to improve. For the folks that say the car is illegal, it is not. I have consulted with Doug Gill @ SCCA Topeka on many items and the car got a clean bill of health. If you still think it is illegal, come to an event and protest me. The real guys to beat in SM drive BMW's! Driving a Subaru, no matter how crazy, still makes us underdogs....
Chris F
Chris F
| WRX8XB | 05-12-2006 06:10 PM |
how did you manage to retain the stock bumper beam and fit such a larger intercooler?
| makofoto | 05-12-2006 06:20 PM |
edited
| SloRice | 05-12-2006 06:25 PM |
[QUOTE=Templar]You can make a front mount fit within the rules with a much larger core than stock. I did (19.5 x 9 x 4= 702 cu. in) with no heat soak. It cost me about $500 and 10 hours of my time. You have to lose the AC, but that is also legal within the rules.[/QUOTE]
I would be interested in seeing pictures of your fmic setup. I was also contemplating making my own setup this past winter but I was never able to get everything done.
I would be interested in seeing pictures of your fmic setup. I was also contemplating making my own setup this past winter but I was never able to get everything done.
| Templar | 05-13-2006 08:48 AM |
[QUOTE=Chris F] For the folks that say the car is illegal, it is not. I have consulted with Doug Gill @ SCCA Topeka on many items and the car got a clean bill of health.F[/QUOTE]
Well, first off, Doug is not the be all, end all of the rules. Second, let's take a look at 16.1 O
[I]Any minor modification, intended to allow or facilitate any allowed
modification, is permitted as long as it does not provide
any intrinsic performance benefit in and of itself, [B]does not provide
a weight reduction of more than 1 lb[/B], and is not explicitly
prohibited elsewhere within these rules. This rule is intended to
allow minor notching, bending, clearancing, grinding; the drilling
of holes; affixing, relocating, or strengthening of brackets;
removal of small parts, and similar operations performed in
order to facilitate the installation of allowed parts or modifications.[/I]
If you have cut more than 1 lb off of the bumper beam, then it is illegal. The removal of the bumper beam is not explicitly allowed anywhere else within the rules, therefore, if you have replaced the front bumper beam, it is illegal.
[QUOTE=SloRice]I would be interested in seeing pictures of your fmic setup. I was also contemplating making my own setup this past winter but I was never able to get everything done.[/QUOTE]
I hope to have some pics of the completed car within the next two to three weeks.
Well, first off, Doug is not the be all, end all of the rules. Second, let's take a look at 16.1 O
[I]Any minor modification, intended to allow or facilitate any allowed
modification, is permitted as long as it does not provide
any intrinsic performance benefit in and of itself, [B]does not provide
a weight reduction of more than 1 lb[/B], and is not explicitly
prohibited elsewhere within these rules. This rule is intended to
allow minor notching, bending, clearancing, grinding; the drilling
of holes; affixing, relocating, or strengthening of brackets;
removal of small parts, and similar operations performed in
order to facilitate the installation of allowed parts or modifications.[/I]
If you have cut more than 1 lb off of the bumper beam, then it is illegal. The removal of the bumper beam is not explicitly allowed anywhere else within the rules, therefore, if you have replaced the front bumper beam, it is illegal.
[QUOTE=SloRice]I would be interested in seeing pictures of your fmic setup. I was also contemplating making my own setup this past winter but I was never able to get everything done.[/QUOTE]
I hope to have some pics of the completed car within the next two to three weeks.
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