| Scooby South | 08-23-2004 12:21 PM |
Are you Legal???? Things that can help you...
�
�
lets see...Protestable items in STX/STS/STU/SM:
Some common Things to look for on your nearest competiter to give you the advantage for nationals: ;)
*ECU's...Hmmmmmmmm...don't want to know... Been there done that...20 times now...
*Brakes....It is legel to have the H6 rears???? WIthout doing anything to your Shields.....
*Fender Liners and assiociated clips...
*Seats
*Airbags
*lightwieght bumper beams.....
*Camberplates/Crashbolts/Adjustable trailing arms
*ALK's
*Steering Ratios/ Rack Bushings
*difference ebetween dressup and performance enhancer
*tire width
*rim width
*NO trunk Monkey
*Any 02 Blu WRX with Attacks on it....
*Any 02 Blu WRX with a 03 5spd in it...
*ANY WRX with Poki Man tailights
Feel free to add your own....I am making my list right now...;)
Bill
Some common Things to look for on your nearest competiter to give you the advantage for nationals: ;)
*ECU's...Hmmmmmmmm...don't want to know... Been there done that...20 times now...
*Brakes....It is legel to have the H6 rears???? WIthout doing anything to your Shields.....
*Fender Liners and assiociated clips...
*Seats
*Airbags
*lightwieght bumper beams.....
*Camberplates/Crashbolts/Adjustable trailing arms
*ALK's
*Steering Ratios/ Rack Bushings
*difference ebetween dressup and performance enhancer
*tire width
*rim width
*NO trunk Monkey
*Any 02 Blu WRX with Attacks on it....
*Any 02 Blu WRX with a 03 5spd in it...
*ANY WRX with Poki Man tailights
Feel free to add your own....I am making my list right now...;)
Bill
| Scooby South | 08-23-2004 12:22 PM |
oh yeah...Bond Money...thats important too...:D
Bill
Bill
| KC | 08-23-2004 12:30 PM |
Wow, you like stirring the pot, huh? :lol:
| Scooby South | 08-23-2004 12:34 PM |
Lets see....
*Harness bars that have 4 pt mounting....or triangulates the bar..;)
*Harness bars that have 4 pt mounting....or triangulates the bar..;)
| Scooby South | 08-23-2004 12:36 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]Wow, you like stirring the pot, huh? :lol:[/QUOTE]
Yeah I figured that everyone should be on equal footing....that way..."I didn't know that was illegal" phrase should never come up....and...I like stirring the pot as I thought you did as well...;)
Bill
Yeah I figured that everyone should be on equal footing....that way..."I didn't know that was illegal" phrase should never come up....and...I like stirring the pot as I thought you did as well...;)
Bill
| DrBiggly | 08-23-2004 12:43 PM |
Bill,
You forgot Tein coilovers. :p
You forgot Tein coilovers. :p
| Scooby South | 08-23-2004 01:06 PM |
oh...heres a question....Can someone from a different class protest a different class????
Like I am in SM...and I protest the AS Porcshe Boxster for an illegal XXXX....
If I know it illegal???
Bill
Like I am in SM...and I protest the AS Porcshe Boxster for an illegal XXXX....
If I know it illegal???
Bill
| KC | 08-23-2004 01:06 PM |
:lol: Teins are legal, just as are Cars with Attacks.
But I do agree.... No trunkmonkey = Protest!!!!
But I do agree.... No trunkmonkey = Protest!!!!
| trhoppe | 08-23-2004 01:07 PM |
ooo I got one!
* Replacing cross members to add in a new engine! ;)
-Tom
* Replacing cross members to add in a new engine! ;)
-Tom
| KC | 08-23-2004 01:07 PM |
You would need someone else in that class to protest it... or one of the chiefs. But it's up to the competitors in that class to do so.
--kC
--kC
| Scooby South | 08-23-2004 01:08 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]ooo I got one!
* Replacing cross members to add in a new engine!
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Prove it....I bashed my stocker with a sledge...;)..even gots the Sledge marks on it for good measure...:lol:
Bill
* Replacing cross members to add in a new engine!
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Prove it....I bashed my stocker with a sledge...;)..even gots the Sledge marks on it for good measure...:lol:
Bill
| KC | 08-23-2004 01:09 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South]Yeah I figured that everyone should be on equal footing....that way..."I didn't know that was illegal" phrase should never come up....and...I like stirring the pot as I thought you did as well...;)
Bill[/QUOTE]
I *never* stir the pot. I'm just misunderstood!!!!
Bill[/QUOTE]
I *never* stir the pot. I'm just misunderstood!!!!
| trhoppe | 08-23-2004 01:10 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South]Prove it....I bashed my stocker with a sledge...;)..even gots the Sledge marks on it for good measure...:lol:
Bill[/QUOTE]
-Tom
who loves his JDM front bumper beam/dressup item :)
Bill[/QUOTE]
-Tom
who loves his JDM front bumper beam/dressup item :)
| DrBiggly | 08-23-2004 01:18 PM |
I have lightweight trunk monkeys. 4 of them in fact. :D
Since lightweight bumper beams should rattle more easily, a simple "kick the car" test would work well for you Bill. Oh, be sure to use enough force to make sure it rattles correctly. :devil:
Since lightweight bumper beams should rattle more easily, a simple "kick the car" test would work well for you Bill. Oh, be sure to use enough force to make sure it rattles correctly. :devil:
| Scooby South | 08-23-2004 01:22 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]I *never* stir the pot. I'm just misunderstood!!!![/QUOTE]
hmmmmmm...wonder how true this is...:)
Bill
hmmmmmm...wonder how true this is...:)
Bill
| stxwrxracer | 08-23-2004 01:26 PM |
Hmmm, aftermarket clutches...and yeah, what's up with those damn bumper beams showing up all of a sudden...hmmm...
H6s...any thoughts...been holding back for clarification...heard anything yet, Tom?
-Mike
$2900 Paypal balance...great bond money..heheh.
H6s...any thoughts...been holding back for clarification...heard anything yet, Tom?
-Mike
$2900 Paypal balance...great bond money..heheh.
| KC | 08-23-2004 01:31 PM |
Better put that into a bank account... SCCA doesn't take PayPal and it takes a few days for it to be available.
| KC | 08-23-2004 01:31 PM |
[COLOR=silver]Just don't look for the naws hidden in my door panels.[/COLOR]
| Scooby South | 08-23-2004 01:34 PM |
hmmmm..glove box weight...and Center console weight????
Now its gets interesting...
Bill
Now its gets interesting...
Bill
| zzyzx | 08-23-2004 01:34 PM |
[COLOR=silver]I got you beat. My rollcage is pressurized.[/COLOR]
| Scooby South | 08-23-2004 01:35 PM |
What about the Weight on the Jack Plate in the front...
This is getting good...:devil:
This is getting good...:devil:
| KC | 08-23-2004 01:38 PM |
[COLOR=Silver]My tires are filled with helium[/Color]
| stxwrxracer | 08-23-2004 01:39 PM |
How about the allowance for the addition of a hole to accomodate adjustment of the rear struts...ala stock rules. Only way I see to adjust them is to nix the top portion of the rear seat...that works, right?
-MK
-MK
| jbrennen | 08-23-2004 01:39 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South]Can someone from a different class protest a different class????
Like I am in SM...and I protest the AS Porcshe Boxster for an illegal XXXX....
If I know it illegal???
[/QUOTE]
In a ProSolo you can, according to the current ProSolo supplementals.
Like I am in SM...and I protest the AS Porcshe Boxster for an illegal XXXX....
If I know it illegal???
[/QUOTE]
In a ProSolo you can, according to the current ProSolo supplementals.
| DrBiggly | 08-23-2004 01:43 PM |
I have 16ozs of plastic missing from my bumper.
| DrBiggly | 08-23-2004 01:44 PM |
[QUOTE=stxwrxracer]How about the allowance for the addition of a hole to accomodate adjustment of the rear struts...ala stock rules. Only way I see to adjust them is to nix the top portion of the rear seat...that works, right?
-MK[/QUOTE]
When you put the seat back in the car, just don't hook it on the sides. You can pull the corner away and not have to hack up your seat. :)
-MK[/QUOTE]
When you put the seat back in the car, just don't hook it on the sides. You can pull the corner away and not have to hack up your seat. :)
| trhoppe | 08-23-2004 01:50 PM |
I just removed the whole back seat. Makes for easy strut adjustements.
-Tom
-Tom
| wrx2.0 555 | 08-23-2004 01:58 PM |
[QUOTE=zzyzx][COLOR=silver]I got you beat. My rollcage is pressurized.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
With what, Helium?? :lol:
With what, Helium?? :lol:
| trhoppe | 08-23-2004 01:59 PM |
[QUOTE=wrx2.0 555]With what, Helium?? :lol:[/QUOTE]
What a sweeet idea!
-Tom
What a sweeet idea!
-Tom
| DrBiggly | 08-23-2004 02:01 PM |
While you're at it, why don't you pressurize the whole passenger compartment with Helium while you're running? Granted if you get out talking like a chipmunk in impound folks might suspect something. :lol:
| del105 | 08-23-2004 02:03 PM |
In all seriousness, do you think painted headlights would be protestable?
Also what if you don't have a shop manual for your car, will they not let you run at nationals?
Also what if you don't have a shop manual for your car, will they not let you run at nationals?
| KC | 08-23-2004 02:06 PM |
[QUOTE=del105]In all seriousness, do you think painted headlights would be protestable?
Also what if you don't have a shop manual for your car, will they not let you run at nationals?[/QUOTE]
You only need a shop manual in the case of a protest. That's a discussion going on right now in the costs associated these days in obtaining one. Years ago, they used to be about a hundred bucks.... if you could have even procured them.. and it was all contained in one volume.. you didn't need a CDL to haul them around.
BMW doesn't make the manuals avaialble to the public. What then?
--kC
Also what if you don't have a shop manual for your car, will they not let you run at nationals?[/QUOTE]
You only need a shop manual in the case of a protest. That's a discussion going on right now in the costs associated these days in obtaining one. Years ago, they used to be about a hundred bucks.... if you could have even procured them.. and it was all contained in one volume.. you didn't need a CDL to haul them around.
BMW doesn't make the manuals avaialble to the public. What then?
--kC
| DrBiggly | 08-23-2004 02:14 PM |
Painted headlights I say are comfort/convenience. I have the silly expensive European projector beams on mine and I doubt there would be an issue. Especially since I have an extra 10lbs of wiring and modules for that and the Hella FF1000 foglights. (Basically an RS-sized foglight on a WRX.) :)
| Butt Dyno | 08-23-2004 02:16 PM |
[QUOTE=del105]In all seriousness, do you think painted headlights would be protestable?
Also what if you don't have a shop manual for your car, will they not let you run at nationals?[/QUOTE]I am pretty sure Tom had some blacked-out stockers on his car when he was running in DS..
john
Also what if you don't have a shop manual for your car, will they not let you run at nationals?[/QUOTE]I am pretty sure Tom had some blacked-out stockers on his car when he was running in DS..
john
| trhoppe | 08-23-2004 02:24 PM |
Bling Bling
-Tom
who even has blacked out corner lights
-Tom
who even has blacked out corner lights
| trhoppe | 08-23-2004 02:27 PM |
[QUOTE=stxwrxracer]H6s...any thoughts...been holding back for clarification...heard anything yet, Tom?
[/QUOTE]
I didn't bother. My dust shields are IMHO not "modified" in any way other that any of our splash shields are "modified" to fit the stone racing header. I am not losing 1oz of weight off the car so you can't claim weight savings and am installing a 100% legal mod. Also, an SEB member has admitted that the dust shield modification not being in the rules was an "oversight".
Basically after weighing the different opinion for or against their legality. I decided to take my chances :)
-Tom
[/QUOTE]
I didn't bother. My dust shields are IMHO not "modified" in any way other that any of our splash shields are "modified" to fit the stone racing header. I am not losing 1oz of weight off the car so you can't claim weight savings and am installing a 100% legal mod. Also, an SEB member has admitted that the dust shield modification not being in the rules was an "oversight".
Basically after weighing the different opinion for or against their legality. I decided to take my chances :)
-Tom
| Scooby South | 08-23-2004 02:29 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]While you're at it, why don't you pressurize the whole passenger compartment with Helium while you're running? Granted if you get out talking like a chipmunk in impound folks might suspect something. :lol:[/QUOTE]
never mind...dumb comment...sometimes I wonder..;)
Bill
never mind...dumb comment...sometimes I wonder..;)
Bill
| Corey | 08-23-2004 02:56 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]I didn't bother. My dust shields are IMHO not "modified" in any way other that any of our splash shields are "modified" to fit the stone racing header. I am not losing 1oz of weight off the car so you can't claim weight savings and am installing a 100% legal mod. Also, an SEB member has admitted that the dust shield modification not being in the rules was an "oversight".
Basically after weighing the different opinion for or against their legality. I decided to take my chances :)
-Tom[/QUOTE]
You're going to get a chance to find out if they are legal or not... I can gaurantee that...
;)
Corey #177 STX
Basically after weighing the different opinion for or against their legality. I decided to take my chances :)
-Tom[/QUOTE]
You're going to get a chance to find out if they are legal or not... I can gaurantee that...
;)
Corey #177 STX
| DrBiggly | 08-23-2004 03:16 PM |
[QUOTE=ButtDyno]I am pretty sure Tom had some blacked-out stockers on his car when he was running in DS..
john[/QUOTE]
That he did and still does.
In fact I have a SportsCar issue at home with a '02 yellow WRX on the cover with blacked out headlights. :)
john[/QUOTE]
That he did and still does.
In fact I have a SportsCar issue at home with a '02 yellow WRX on the cover with blacked out headlights. :)
| del105 | 08-23-2004 03:46 PM |
Ok I have another question that is not directly related to the WRX. If you have a car in a stock class with different size wheels on the front and back, can you switch them around legally? I know its a stupid question but I just want to know what you all think.
| Scooby South | 08-23-2004 04:05 PM |
[QUOTE=del105]Ok I have another question that is not directly related to the WRX. If you have a car in a stock class with different size wheels on the front and back, can you switch them around legally? I know its a stupid question but I just want to know what you all think.[/QUOTE]
No...Stock size only...you can switch the wheels..but they have to have same size as they came with from the manufactor...IE: If a Honda S2000 has a 7 in wide wheel in the front..and 7.5 in wide wheel in the back...thats what you have to put back on it even tho you might upgrade the weight of the wheel to say a VOLK or SSR ....it would still have to be 7 in wide in the front and 7.5 wide in the rear...and it can't be upgraded in size...like again the S2000 came with 16 in rims..(00-03) 17in on the 04....so no upgrades in size
Bill
No...Stock size only...you can switch the wheels..but they have to have same size as they came with from the manufactor...IE: If a Honda S2000 has a 7 in wide wheel in the front..and 7.5 in wide wheel in the back...thats what you have to put back on it even tho you might upgrade the weight of the wheel to say a VOLK or SSR ....it would still have to be 7 in wide in the front and 7.5 wide in the rear...and it can't be upgraded in size...like again the S2000 came with 16 in rims..(00-03) 17in on the 04....so no upgrades in size
Bill
| del105 | 08-23-2004 04:16 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South]No...Stock size only...you can switch the wheels..but they have to have same size as they came with from the manufactor...IE: If a Honda S2000 has a 7 in wide wheel in the front..and 7.5 in wide wheel in the back...thats what you have to put back on it even tho you might upgrade the weight of the wheel to say a VOLK or SSR ....it would still have to be 7 in wide in the front and 7.5 wide in the rear...and it can't be upgraded in size...like again the S2000 came with 16 in rims..(00-03) 17in on the 04....so no upgrades in size
Bill[/QUOTE]
The reason ask is someone at the AR event this weekend had the same size tire front and rear but the rear wheel was .5 inch wider. He wanted to rotate because if tire wear. Ended it up he did not do it but I was wonder anyway.
Bill[/QUOTE]
The reason ask is someone at the AR event this weekend had the same size tire front and rear but the rear wheel was .5 inch wider. He wanted to rotate because if tire wear. Ended it up he did not do it but I was wonder anyway.
| dwx | 08-23-2004 04:19 PM |
The new Fastrack has an SM item that would make crossmembers/subframes/etc. "free", as long as it uses the same bolts to bolt back onto the unibody. Wouldn't go into effect until 2006 though, I'll be breaking out the big hammer this winter.
You don't need fender liners of any kind in SM anymore.
You don't need fender liners of any kind in SM anymore.
| Scooby South | 08-23-2004 04:27 PM |
[QUOTE=dwx]The new Fastrack has an SM item that would make crossmembers/subframes/etc. "free", as long as it uses the same bolts to bolt back onto the unibody. Wouldn't go into effect until 2006 though, I'll be breaking out the big hammer this winter.
You don't need fender liners of any kind in SM anymore.[/QUOTE]
ahemmmmmmmm...Thank you kind sir...:D....that Clears me :disco: :disco:
Next...
Bill
You don't need fender liners of any kind in SM anymore.[/QUOTE]
ahemmmmmmmm...Thank you kind sir...:D....that Clears me :disco: :disco:
Next...
Bill
| TheWRX | 08-23-2004 11:48 PM |
[QUOTE=wrx2.0 555]With what, Helium?? :lol:[/QUOTE]
Actually, you would make the car heavier by pressurizing it. Helium may be lighter than air, but it still has mass, so you make the car heavier by adding more. If you wanted the car to be as light as possible, you would have a vacuum inside your cage.
:alien:
What was this thread about? :)
Actually, you would make the car heavier by pressurizing it. Helium may be lighter than air, but it still has mass, so you make the car heavier by adding more. If you wanted the car to be as light as possible, you would have a vacuum inside your cage.
:alien:
What was this thread about? :)
| zzyzx | 08-24-2004 02:18 AM |
[COLOR=Silver]
"My tires are filled with helium"
Damn, that's not a bad idea. Lighter than O2 and no moisture. Hrm...
[/Color]
"My tires are filled with helium"
Damn, that's not a bad idea. Lighter than O2 and no moisture. Hrm...
[/Color]
| jbrennen | 08-24-2004 02:58 AM |
[QUOTE=zzyzx]
"My tires are filled with helium"
Damn, that's not a bad idea. Lighter than O2 and no moisture. Hrm...
[/QUOTE]
One potential problem with filling tires with helium is that they will lose pressure due to effusion (the slow "leakage" of a pressurized gas) about 3 times faster than either air or nitrogen filled tires.
Not a problem for autocrossing since we all check and maintain pressures zealously, but street use of helium filled tires by the average car owner could lead to tire failures or accidents. I've heard that the average tire loses about 1 psi per month due to effusion; with helium tires, that would go up to 3 psi per month -- a rate which would cause problems for most of the non-motorsports masses.
An example of an "average" car owner not checking pressures nearly often enough: My neighbor is a career military Special Ops guy (still active, he's been to Afghanistan and Iraq in recent years) who should be reasonably well educated about the importance of keeping one's equipment well maintained. But his wife was rolling around recently in a minivan which had visibly underinflated tires at all four corners. I offered to check and air up her tires -- all of them were around 10 psi below the recommended pressures for the vehicle. No punctures or anything -- they just probably hadn't gotten any air in 6 months to a year.
"My tires are filled with helium"
Damn, that's not a bad idea. Lighter than O2 and no moisture. Hrm...
[/QUOTE]
One potential problem with filling tires with helium is that they will lose pressure due to effusion (the slow "leakage" of a pressurized gas) about 3 times faster than either air or nitrogen filled tires.
Not a problem for autocrossing since we all check and maintain pressures zealously, but street use of helium filled tires by the average car owner could lead to tire failures or accidents. I've heard that the average tire loses about 1 psi per month due to effusion; with helium tires, that would go up to 3 psi per month -- a rate which would cause problems for most of the non-motorsports masses.
An example of an "average" car owner not checking pressures nearly often enough: My neighbor is a career military Special Ops guy (still active, he's been to Afghanistan and Iraq in recent years) who should be reasonably well educated about the importance of keeping one's equipment well maintained. But his wife was rolling around recently in a minivan which had visibly underinflated tires at all four corners. I offered to check and air up her tires -- all of them were around 10 psi below the recommended pressures for the vehicle. No punctures or anything -- they just probably hadn't gotten any air in 6 months to a year.
| wrx2.0 555 | 08-24-2004 06:57 AM |
[QUOTE=TheWRX]Actually, you would make the car heavier by pressurizing it. Helium may be lighter than air, but it still has mass, so you make the car heavier by adding more. If you wanted the car to be as light as possible, you would have a vacuum inside your cage.
:alien:
What was this thread about? :)[/QUOTE]
So why does the balloon float when its filled with helium?
It would seem to me that if you could get enough helium in the car, it would have the same effect.
[I]but then again, I have no idea what I am saying ;) [/I]
:alien:
What was this thread about? :)[/QUOTE]
So why does the balloon float when its filled with helium?
It would seem to me that if you could get enough helium in the car, it would have the same effect.
[I]but then again, I have no idea what I am saying ;) [/I]
| KC | 08-24-2004 07:43 AM |
[QUOTE=jbrennen]One potential problem with filling tires with helium is that they will lose pressure due to effusion (the slow "leakage" of a pressurized gas) about 3 times faster than either air or nitrogen filled tires.
Not a problem for autocrossing since we all check and maintain pressures zealously, but street use of helium filled tires by the average car owner could lead to tire failures or accidents. I've heard that the average tire loses about 1 psi per month due to effusion; with helium tires, that would go up to 3 psi per month -- a rate which would cause problems for most of the non-motorsports masses.
An example of an "average" car owner not checking pressures nearly often enough: My neighbor is a career military Special Ops guy (still active, he's been to Afghanistan and Iraq in recent years) who should be reasonably well educated about the importance of keeping one's equipment well maintained. But his wife was rolling around recently in a minivan which had visibly underinflated tires at all four corners. I offered to check and air up her tires -- all of them were around 10 psi below the recommended pressures for the vehicle. No punctures or anything -- they just probably hadn't gotten any air in 6 months to a year.[/QUOTE]
Too much text. Got cliff notes?
Not a problem for autocrossing since we all check and maintain pressures zealously, but street use of helium filled tires by the average car owner could lead to tire failures or accidents. I've heard that the average tire loses about 1 psi per month due to effusion; with helium tires, that would go up to 3 psi per month -- a rate which would cause problems for most of the non-motorsports masses.
An example of an "average" car owner not checking pressures nearly often enough: My neighbor is a career military Special Ops guy (still active, he's been to Afghanistan and Iraq in recent years) who should be reasonably well educated about the importance of keeping one's equipment well maintained. But his wife was rolling around recently in a minivan which had visibly underinflated tires at all four corners. I offered to check and air up her tires -- all of them were around 10 psi below the recommended pressures for the vehicle. No punctures or anything -- they just probably hadn't gotten any air in 6 months to a year.[/QUOTE]
Too much text. Got cliff notes?
| solo-x | 08-24-2004 08:26 AM |
well, the other problem with helium filled tires is that you didn't change the mass of the vehicle at all, just it's weight. since the mass is unchanged and vertical load on the tires has been reduced, you just killed grip.
also, at some point in time as you compress helium into a container you will start to increase the weight of the cylinder/gas. helium has mass too, it is just it's density is less then that of air. compress enough of it...
we could get cole to weigh in on this. i'm sure some friction-less rollers would REALLY clear things up.
now, back to your regurlarly scheduled pot stirring...
nate
also, at some point in time as you compress helium into a container you will start to increase the weight of the cylinder/gas. helium has mass too, it is just it's density is less then that of air. compress enough of it...
we could get cole to weigh in on this. i'm sure some friction-less rollers would REALLY clear things up.
now, back to your regurlarly scheduled pot stirring...
nate
| TheWRX | 08-24-2004 08:34 AM |
KC: Tires filled with helium loose pressure faster than tires filled with air.
Faaaaar off-topic:
[QUOTE=wrx2.0 555]So why does the balloon float when its filled with helium?
It would seem to me that if you could get enough helium in the car, it would have the same effect.[/QUOTE]
A balloon filled with helium floats because a give volume filled with helium is lighter than the same volume filled with air at the same pressure, and that weight difference is larger than the weight of the balloon hull. If you could add more helium without making the balloon bigger, it would float less well, and eventually sink. Of course you can't really do that because the balloon (unlike a cage ;) ), expands when you add helium. If, on the other hand, you could have a vacuum inside the balloon, it would float even better than a balloon filled with helium. Again, this obviously doesn't work, because the balloon will collapse when it's empty (unlike a cage ;) ).
Faaaaar off-topic:
[QUOTE=wrx2.0 555]So why does the balloon float when its filled with helium?
It would seem to me that if you could get enough helium in the car, it would have the same effect.[/QUOTE]
A balloon filled with helium floats because a give volume filled with helium is lighter than the same volume filled with air at the same pressure, and that weight difference is larger than the weight of the balloon hull. If you could add more helium without making the balloon bigger, it would float less well, and eventually sink. Of course you can't really do that because the balloon (unlike a cage ;) ), expands when you add helium. If, on the other hand, you could have a vacuum inside the balloon, it would float even better than a balloon filled with helium. Again, this obviously doesn't work, because the balloon will collapse when it's empty (unlike a cage ;) ).
| AustinTX | 08-24-2004 10:36 AM |
Test your theory. Weight a lightbulb, then break it and reweigh the pieces :)
| kwh29 | 08-24-2004 03:19 PM |
Random data point:
At least one F1 team was using Hydrogen (!) to fill their tires in 2002. I read it in Racecar Engineering magazine IIRC. I don't remember the team.
For a surprising reminder of just how heavy plain 'ol air is, weigh your air tank empty then weigh it again with 120psi or so in it. The difference should be easy to feel.
--Kevin H.
At least one F1 team was using Hydrogen (!) to fill their tires in 2002. I read it in Racecar Engineering magazine IIRC. I don't remember the team.
For a surprising reminder of just how heavy plain 'ol air is, weigh your air tank empty then weigh it again with 120psi or so in it. The difference should be easy to feel.
--Kevin H.
| wrx2.0 555 | 08-24-2004 03:24 PM |
[QUOTE=kwh29]Random data point:
For a surprising reminder of just how heavy plain 'mol air is, weigh your air tank empty then weigh it again with 120psi or so in it. The difference should be easy to feel.
--Kevin H.[/QUOTE]
I will try this tonight. I have two fireman breather tanks that hold 4000psi. One is full, one is close to empty. I've taken them to be filled before and cant say I noticed a difference once they were full and that's 4000 psi vs 120 in your example.
I'll be back............................
For a surprising reminder of just how heavy plain 'mol air is, weigh your air tank empty then weigh it again with 120psi or so in it. The difference should be easy to feel.
--Kevin H.[/QUOTE]
I will try this tonight. I have two fireman breather tanks that hold 4000psi. One is full, one is close to empty. I've taken them to be filled before and cant say I noticed a difference once they were full and that's 4000 psi vs 120 in your example.
I'll be back............................
| jbrennen | 08-24-2004 03:53 PM |
10 gallons of air pressurized to 120 psi weighs about 400 grams -- just under a pound.
| DrBiggly | 08-24-2004 03:55 PM |
[QUOTE=kwh29]Random data point:
At least one F1 team was using Hydrogen (!) to fill their tires in 2002. I read it in Racecar Engineering magazine IIRC. I don't remember the team.
For a surprising reminder of just how heavy plain 'ol air is, weigh your air tank empty then weigh it again with 120psi or so in it. The difference should be easy to feel.
--Kevin H.[/QUOTE]
I think the thing with the portable air tanks is the moisture that gets trapped causing the extra weight. (Also reduced air capacity.) :)
At least one F1 team was using Hydrogen (!) to fill their tires in 2002. I read it in Racecar Engineering magazine IIRC. I don't remember the team.
For a surprising reminder of just how heavy plain 'ol air is, weigh your air tank empty then weigh it again with 120psi or so in it. The difference should be easy to feel.
--Kevin H.[/QUOTE]
I think the thing with the portable air tanks is the moisture that gets trapped causing the extra weight. (Also reduced air capacity.) :)
| Templar | 08-26-2004 09:11 PM |
I thought I would bring this back up...and see if I can get the thread back on track...although I will point out that some of the modifications listed in the first page only apply to certain of the classes listed.
I thought I would re-compile the list, then if the mod is legal or variable I would post comments beside the mod.
lets see...Protestable items in STX/STS/STU/SM:
Some common Things to look for on your nearest competiter to give you the advantage for nationals:
*ECU's...Hmmmmmmmm...don't want to know... Been there done that...20 times now...(wide open in SM)
*Brakes....It is legel to have the H6 rears???? WIthout doing anything to your Shields.....(again, wide open in SM)
*Fender Liners and assiociated clips... (yet again...wide open in SM)
*Seats (fully upholstered and full sized in ESP, DSP, and SM, that is about it)
*Airbags (seat airbags can come out in any of the classes and steering wheel bags can come out in either SP and SM. Passenger side airbags must remain.)
*lightweight bumper beams.....(not legal in any class. Makes me wonder how conebasher used that front mount APS intercooler that came with it's own bumper beam)
*Camberplates/Crashbolts/Adjustable trailing arms (fully legal in SM and SP)
*ALK's (nope, clarified in the new rules)
*Steering Ratios/ Rack Bushings (legal in SM as of the January 04 fasttrack) I
*difference between dressup and performance enhancer (that should be obvious)
*tire width (225 STS, 245 for AWD in STX, unlimited in SP and SM)
*rim width (7.5 in STS, 8 in STX, unilimited in SP and SM)
I thought I would re-compile the list, then if the mod is legal or variable I would post comments beside the mod.
lets see...Protestable items in STX/STS/STU/SM:
Some common Things to look for on your nearest competiter to give you the advantage for nationals:
*ECU's...Hmmmmmmmm...don't want to know... Been there done that...20 times now...(wide open in SM)
*Brakes....It is legel to have the H6 rears???? WIthout doing anything to your Shields.....(again, wide open in SM)
*Fender Liners and assiociated clips... (yet again...wide open in SM)
*Seats (fully upholstered and full sized in ESP, DSP, and SM, that is about it)
*Airbags (seat airbags can come out in any of the classes and steering wheel bags can come out in either SP and SM. Passenger side airbags must remain.)
*lightweight bumper beams.....(not legal in any class. Makes me wonder how conebasher used that front mount APS intercooler that came with it's own bumper beam)
*Camberplates/Crashbolts/Adjustable trailing arms (fully legal in SM and SP)
*ALK's (nope, clarified in the new rules)
*Steering Ratios/ Rack Bushings (legal in SM as of the January 04 fasttrack) I
*difference between dressup and performance enhancer (that should be obvious)
*tire width (225 STS, 245 for AWD in STX, unlimited in SP and SM)
*rim width (7.5 in STS, 8 in STX, unilimited in SP and SM)
| wrx2.0 555 | 08-27-2004 06:57 AM |
Im a little confused as to why steering rack bushings are illegal for STX. Isnt there only real purpose to eliminate slop in the steering? They dont actually change anything do they? Or "performance enhance" anything do they?
| TheWRX | 08-27-2004 07:26 AM |
[QUOTE=wrx2.0 555]Or "performance enhance" anything do they?[/QUOTE]
Why would you be interested in installing them if they don't "performance enhance" anything? Less sloppy steering sounds like a performance enhancement to me, certainly much more significant than many of the other items discussed here. Clearly illegal for STX.
Why would you be interested in installing them if they don't "performance enhance" anything? Less sloppy steering sounds like a performance enhancement to me, certainly much more significant than many of the other items discussed here. Clearly illegal for STX.
| fliz | 08-27-2004 09:28 AM |
[QUOTE=Templar]*Camberplates/Crashbolts/Adjustable trailing arms (fully legal in SM and SP)
[/QUOTE]
I thought camberplates were legal in STX?
[/QUOTE]
I thought camberplates were legal in STX?
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