| MPME | 06-23-2006 11:44 AM |
Bernie: USA gives F1 nothing but hassle
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And a warm "F*ck You Too" Bernie. Good to know for any casual fans thinking of putting $ in his pocket this year.
F1's running and promotion of the USGP has been without any problem, eh Bernie? Upset TV and sponsors aren't clamoring to give you money after last year's event?...
[B]Bernie: USA gives F1 nothing but hassle [/B]
By Jonathan Noble Friday, June 23rd 2006, 07:31 GMT
Formula One supremo Bernie Ecclestone has reiterated his stance that he is not desperate for a round of the championship in the United States, further dismissing its commercial importance to the sport.
The contract with current US GP hosting venue, the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, is about to expire, with next weekend's event set to be the last at the famous speedway unless a new contract is agreed on.
And with speculation growing that IMS is no longer interested in hosting the event, Ecclestone has moved to downplay the possibility that Formula One will once again find itself with no US Grand Prix on the calendar.
"It does not matter to Formula One if there is no Grand Prix in the US," Ecclestone told The Times newspaper, echoing similar statements he made in the latest issue of F1 Racing.
"What do we get from America? Aggravation, that's about all. If you say 'good morning' over there and it's five past 12, you end up with a lawsuit.
"We have never got any sponsors out there. The television has never taken off; we have more viewers in Malta than over there.
"Why do we need to worry so much about America? It has never really taken to open-wheel racing. They talk about the big audiences for NASCAR, but we get as many viewers in Italy alone as they do for NASCAR in the States."
Ecclestone clarified, however, that he is not ruling out an extension of the contract with IMS - but said the event will not be subsidised by the sport, after suggestions that IMS may demand significant financial incentives to sign on.
Ecclestone said: "If they want to continue having a round of the Formula One World Championship over there, I am happy to talk to them, which is what I will do when I get there. But I am not prepared to subsidise a race in America.
"I have a very good relationship with the people in Indianapolis, and I am sure talks will go well."
F1's running and promotion of the USGP has been without any problem, eh Bernie? Upset TV and sponsors aren't clamoring to give you money after last year's event?...
[B]Bernie: USA gives F1 nothing but hassle [/B]
By Jonathan Noble Friday, June 23rd 2006, 07:31 GMT
Formula One supremo Bernie Ecclestone has reiterated his stance that he is not desperate for a round of the championship in the United States, further dismissing its commercial importance to the sport.
The contract with current US GP hosting venue, the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, is about to expire, with next weekend's event set to be the last at the famous speedway unless a new contract is agreed on.
And with speculation growing that IMS is no longer interested in hosting the event, Ecclestone has moved to downplay the possibility that Formula One will once again find itself with no US Grand Prix on the calendar.
"It does not matter to Formula One if there is no Grand Prix in the US," Ecclestone told The Times newspaper, echoing similar statements he made in the latest issue of F1 Racing.
"What do we get from America? Aggravation, that's about all. If you say 'good morning' over there and it's five past 12, you end up with a lawsuit.
"We have never got any sponsors out there. The television has never taken off; we have more viewers in Malta than over there.
"Why do we need to worry so much about America? It has never really taken to open-wheel racing. They talk about the big audiences for NASCAR, but we get as many viewers in Italy alone as they do for NASCAR in the States."
Ecclestone clarified, however, that he is not ruling out an extension of the contract with IMS - but said the event will not be subsidised by the sport, after suggestions that IMS may demand significant financial incentives to sign on.
Ecclestone said: "If they want to continue having a round of the Formula One World Championship over there, I am happy to talk to them, which is what I will do when I get there. But I am not prepared to subsidise a race in America.
"I have a very good relationship with the people in Indianapolis, and I am sure talks will go well."
| Yotsuya | 06-23-2006 11:52 AM |
For all his faults and scheaming, Bernie at least says what he thinks.
Full article: [URL=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5923-2238805,00.html]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5923-2238805,00.html[/URL]
Full article: [URL=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5923-2238805,00.html]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5923-2238805,00.html[/URL]
| MattDell | 06-23-2006 11:54 AM |
My interpretation: He's getting nowhere with other venues, and now he's trying to play hardball against Tony George.
-Mat
-Mat
| spazegun2213 | 06-23-2006 11:57 AM |
I donno, while being an a**hole about the situation, he has a good point. Most americans would rather sit on their RV's in lawn chairs drinking buds, and rooting for the newest DEI star, then even THINK about watching F1. Yes, after last year america is VERY dissapointed about F1 in the US.
I mean, F1 is hardly covered by any TV station. When i flip on speed 80% of the time I'm staring at some hill billy trying to tell me about the spring rates of a nascar (if I'm lucky!). I dont care about that, i want to see REAL racing, anything that is NOT run in the wet is NOT racing.
sorry i went on a rant there.
I think if america wants a USGP then we will have to pull in more attention for it. I mean look at the indy 500!! EVERY GP gets about that attention. Vs the USGP, its like "oh is there a race this weekend."
More needs to be done to support F1 in the states if its actually going to stay here.
thats my .02
I mean, F1 is hardly covered by any TV station. When i flip on speed 80% of the time I'm staring at some hill billy trying to tell me about the spring rates of a nascar (if I'm lucky!). I dont care about that, i want to see REAL racing, anything that is NOT run in the wet is NOT racing.
sorry i went on a rant there.
I think if america wants a USGP then we will have to pull in more attention for it. I mean look at the indy 500!! EVERY GP gets about that attention. Vs the USGP, its like "oh is there a race this weekend."
More needs to be done to support F1 in the states if its actually going to stay here.
thats my .02
| artkevin | 06-23-2006 11:58 AM |
I hate to say it but I kind of agree with him. We as a country don't really get behnid it in general. One of the biggest sporting events in the world comes to the Mid West and the only main stream media coverage it gets is when only 6 cars ran. ESPN said the "Alonso Trulli" won Monaco in 2004 on the ticker. There's got to be more energy behind it.
| MPME | 06-23-2006 12:21 PM |
The USGP started off with huge crowds, and has dwindled bit-by-bit each year. Iffy TV, poor marketing, and the Michelin debacle of '05 aren't the fault of American fans.
Like anything that's mostly unknown to the public, it takes proper TV, proper marketing, and a lack of scandal (ripping off the fans last year by holding a race with 6 cars---the F1 bosses held their rule book aloft, and showed that their rules were more important than the paying audience F1 comes to perform in front of) to grow one's audience.
Most people only need to have a bad concert, movie, or entertainment experience once before they write off spending any more money in that direction. F1 is no different.
Die hard fans ill always support what they enjoy, but that's not the key to F1 taking a proper hold in this country. It's the new fan, the unknowing fan that'd needed to be drawn in. F1 has failed to do that repeatedly for the last 30 years in the 'States.
NASCAR was a comical, 'Southern Region Only' racing series for the longest time. Even through most of the '80's, no one paid it any mind on a national level. They changed that by smart and aggressive marketing, not valuing their rules over their fans, pissing on fans through mindless interviews such as this one from Bernie, and avoiding scandal and stupidity that would risk their growth.
Any business, looking at the methods, practices, and directive applied by F1 to succeed in America, would fail if they adopted the same errant marketing and P.R. concepts. As a business, F1 has failed in their approach over here.
That's not our fault, or the fault of the casual or indifferent fan that could be drawn in to the sport.
Like anything that's mostly unknown to the public, it takes proper TV, proper marketing, and a lack of scandal (ripping off the fans last year by holding a race with 6 cars---the F1 bosses held their rule book aloft, and showed that their rules were more important than the paying audience F1 comes to perform in front of) to grow one's audience.
Most people only need to have a bad concert, movie, or entertainment experience once before they write off spending any more money in that direction. F1 is no different.
Die hard fans ill always support what they enjoy, but that's not the key to F1 taking a proper hold in this country. It's the new fan, the unknowing fan that'd needed to be drawn in. F1 has failed to do that repeatedly for the last 30 years in the 'States.
NASCAR was a comical, 'Southern Region Only' racing series for the longest time. Even through most of the '80's, no one paid it any mind on a national level. They changed that by smart and aggressive marketing, not valuing their rules over their fans, pissing on fans through mindless interviews such as this one from Bernie, and avoiding scandal and stupidity that would risk their growth.
Any business, looking at the methods, practices, and directive applied by F1 to succeed in America, would fail if they adopted the same errant marketing and P.R. concepts. As a business, F1 has failed in their approach over here.
That's not our fault, or the fault of the casual or indifferent fan that could be drawn in to the sport.
| bemani | 06-23-2006 12:40 PM |
Indy is a terrible track for an F1 race anyway.
| artkevin | 06-23-2006 12:43 PM |
^^^^
Agreed 100%
Agreed 100%
| steve_d | 06-23-2006 12:43 PM |
I wonder if CBS makes it's coverage DELIBERATELY that bad.
sjd
sjd
| WRXedUSA | 06-23-2006 01:07 PM |
Wow. What a tard.
Broad generalizations for the lose. It's hard to have success after the Michelin fiasco granted.
Broad generalizations for the lose. It's hard to have success after the Michelin fiasco granted.
| OBShahn | 06-23-2006 01:22 PM |
the USGP of the modern era went through cycles. Some years ticket sales and viewing numbers would improve, others they would drop. That only real trend was that the USGP was on the larget modern upswing durring last years debacle. There were more tickets sold for that race than many others of recent.
Here is to the USGP leaving and Formula 1 getting an effing clue. You can only take so big of a dump on fans in the name of sport before the fans will take a dump on you. The FIA and Ecclestone just keep piling it on to promoters, tracks, and fans, sooner or later people are going to stop being passionate and taking it.
The US doesn't have a commercial importance to F1 because F1 doesn't care about the US. Good riddens I say to that. We'll see just how much Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, Honda, and Ferrari like not having a USGP...
Ecclestone should take his billions and go be a mindless bitter twit on some island somewhere...
Here is to the USGP leaving and Formula 1 getting an effing clue. You can only take so big of a dump on fans in the name of sport before the fans will take a dump on you. The FIA and Ecclestone just keep piling it on to promoters, tracks, and fans, sooner or later people are going to stop being passionate and taking it.
The US doesn't have a commercial importance to F1 because F1 doesn't care about the US. Good riddens I say to that. We'll see just how much Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, Honda, and Ferrari like not having a USGP...
Ecclestone should take his billions and go be a mindless bitter twit on some island somewhere...
| skuttledude | 06-23-2006 02:02 PM |
He's still a boob.
I actually thought that INDY was a good venue. (was there for the first USGP at Indy) Some of the truth's hurt about US viewers and F1 but still believe that we need a race in the US.
I actually thought that INDY was a good venue. (was there for the first USGP at Indy) Some of the truth's hurt about US viewers and F1 but still believe that we need a race in the US.
| Homemade WRX | 06-23-2006 02:43 PM |
[QUOTE=bemani]Indy is a terrible track for an F1 race anyway.[/QUOTE]
amen to that!!
amen to that!!
| BriDrive | 06-23-2006 02:51 PM |
I would like to ask Bernie how many BMW's,Mercedes,Hondas,Toyotas are sold in Malta, in total.
See, all Bernie cares about is the media success/television rights and impact on his own "bank". What he indignantly sloughs off without the slightest thought, is that the teams (especially corporate manufacturer) are in on the whole circus for commercial reasons. Its marketing investment, period. Try and tell Toyota or Honda and BMW (granted they use other marketing venues over here) that the US is not an important market. I'll guarantee they're not looking to Bernie for spokesmanship status.
Bernie, keep it up...we may still see a GPMA (?) afterall when they have had enough of you....Moron.
Flavio or Bernie....hmm, which one would I prefer most get a Big 'Ol slice of humble pie.
BriDrive
See, all Bernie cares about is the media success/television rights and impact on his own "bank". What he indignantly sloughs off without the slightest thought, is that the teams (especially corporate manufacturer) are in on the whole circus for commercial reasons. Its marketing investment, period. Try and tell Toyota or Honda and BMW (granted they use other marketing venues over here) that the US is not an important market. I'll guarantee they're not looking to Bernie for spokesmanship status.
Bernie, keep it up...we may still see a GPMA (?) afterall when they have had enough of you....Moron.
Flavio or Bernie....hmm, which one would I prefer most get a Big 'Ol slice of humble pie.
BriDrive
| artkevin | 06-23-2006 03:08 PM |
I personally think Bernie is the master of playing hardball. I don't think any of his comments are 100% honest because his actions usually don't match his statments. He always blasted Paul Stoddart in the media about handouts and not needing a Mindari in the field but turns out that Bernie pulled Paul to the side in Canada a few years back and helped him out with some cash to keep his team afloat.
Was it from a self serving stance to make sure they didn't dip below the aloted number of cars for the Concorde agreement?
Probably, but again, his bark is worse then his bite. I think we'll see that with America too. Tony George isn't the easiest guy in the world to work with and Bernie just isn't showing his cards until he has to. He knows how important the American market is but he has to be disappointed in the lack of promotion of it.
Was it from a self serving stance to make sure they didn't dip below the aloted number of cars for the Concorde agreement?
Probably, but again, his bark is worse then his bite. I think we'll see that with America too. Tony George isn't the easiest guy in the world to work with and Bernie just isn't showing his cards until he has to. He knows how important the American market is but he has to be disappointed in the lack of promotion of it.
| pio!pio! | 06-23-2006 04:38 PM |
Yeah I don't think he is 100% serious..this is more of a business/political play..contract renegotiations are coming up, so he is playing disinterested to get the IMS people worried and stuff.
| mofugga | 06-23-2006 04:58 PM |
i have noticed F1's getting more attention in the US now that Scott Speed is in it. the extra media attention Speed brings might help get more US fans interested but another mess like last year & when one team is dominating the season like ferarri has & now renault is, it's less exciting for the new fan. CBS is broadcasting more races this year than in the past so it's getting into more homes than it has but CBS's coverage sucks so bad that THEY could be the ones to blame for F1's dwindling support :lol:
| themarxist | 06-23-2006 04:59 PM |
Fine, screw indy. USGP at Laguna Seca anyone?
| bbimpreza | 06-23-2006 05:09 PM |
I think they should run at the Miller Motorsports Park.
| StuBeck | 06-23-2006 05:17 PM |
[QUOTE=themarxist]Fine, screw indy. USGP at Laguna Seca anyone?[/QUOTE]
**** no, if you think Indy is bad, Laguna Seca would be 10 times worse.
I agree with what Bernie is saying, we don't give a crap about F1 and we sued him because of the race whcih was run, even though the tickets specifically say on them "no refunds, no exceptions" if you show up to the track. An very bad thing happened last year (although much of the fan reaction was caused by IMS officials not telling anyone AT the track wth was going on) and Michelin did what they could to recoup the fans, and we go out and sue them. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that.
I am going to Indy this year. It is super cheap and a very good time.
**** no, if you think Indy is bad, Laguna Seca would be 10 times worse.
I agree with what Bernie is saying, we don't give a crap about F1 and we sued him because of the race whcih was run, even though the tickets specifically say on them "no refunds, no exceptions" if you show up to the track. An very bad thing happened last year (although much of the fan reaction was caused by IMS officials not telling anyone AT the track wth was going on) and Michelin did what they could to recoup the fans, and we go out and sue them. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that.
I am going to Indy this year. It is super cheap and a very good time.
| bemani | 06-23-2006 05:18 PM |
[QUOTE=mofugga]CBS is broadcasting more races this year than in the past :[/QUOTE]
They did 4 races this year just like last year :confused:
They did 4 races this year just like last year :confused:
| parker/slc/gc8fan | 06-23-2006 05:22 PM |
We got a great track here in Utah, it's the right caliber too.
I think Bernie is playing his cards as-well.
But at the same time, I dont think he wants 20 plus races every year.
I need to form an articulated thought on this. it gets me all emotional.
I dream of one day seeing a F1 race in person, It's not easy for me to make it out to indy, I dont think Bernie realizes how hard it is to travel here compared to Italy.
****, I could stare from one end of my home valley to the other and that would be about the size of Italy.
I think Bernie is playing his cards as-well.
But at the same time, I dont think he wants 20 plus races every year.
I need to form an articulated thought on this. it gets me all emotional.
I dream of one day seeing a F1 race in person, It's not easy for me to make it out to indy, I dont think Bernie realizes how hard it is to travel here compared to Italy.
****, I could stare from one end of my home valley to the other and that would be about the size of Italy.
| artkevin | 06-23-2006 05:57 PM |
I acutally think Indy is a great place to have a race and even though the track is "Mickey Mouse" it is unquie on the calender which is a good thing to me. The city is set up to hold huge amounts of people for a short period of time and the locals are very welcoming. I remember leaving the track with everyone else and their dog and was on the highway going 70mph in about 15 minutes. It's a well run show.
It may be hard to get to for some people but if you play your cards right it is still far less expensive then say Montreal or Silverstone. You can probably do the whole weekend with a couple of budies for undr $500 a head if needed. Prices don't sky rocket for anything other then ear plugs around the city and you can find a good night life if wanted. If the race does end up in Vegas or anywhere else I don't know if you'll be able to do the same for the money.
I say no to Laguna Seca too. It has great history but it's not a very good track. It's always dusty and only has 1 good overtaking spot (unless you're Alex Zanadri).
It may be hard to get to for some people but if you play your cards right it is still far less expensive then say Montreal or Silverstone. You can probably do the whole weekend with a couple of budies for undr $500 a head if needed. Prices don't sky rocket for anything other then ear plugs around the city and you can find a good night life if wanted. If the race does end up in Vegas or anywhere else I don't know if you'll be able to do the same for the money.
I say no to Laguna Seca too. It has great history but it's not a very good track. It's always dusty and only has 1 good overtaking spot (unless you're Alex Zanadri).
| ghschirtz | 06-23-2006 07:40 PM |
Bernie has said A and done B enough that I don't think he does anything without thinking through first what will help Bernie the most. Not as dirty a man as Trump, for sure.
I think F1, having watched two British GP's in the 70's, and several Long Beach GP's (F1 and CART), now is only marginally interesting to watch. At least they did penalize Schumacher at Monaco, but the technology is so esoteric at this point, the cars look and sound alike, and there are NO Yanks in the series but one. Of course it is hard to drum up interest in the US. The Italians have a stake in F1, drivers, teams, etc. We had a stake in it when Gurney and Penske ran, but no more. I root for Montoya, fogiving his antics, because of his connection to US motorsports. If Schumacher were to show race in a US series, as US drivers did in F1 in prior days, I think you might get more interest.
I agree with the shots at IMS. Lousy venue except in some ways. Watkins Glen, Mid-Ohio, Road Atlanta...many good courses are out there. Laguna Seca has the history, but so do some others, and in CA, with people so hyper-sensitive about noise and "their rights" (i.e.-nobody should have more privileges than me!!!!), the facilities at the track, I don't think so. The locals would have fits about noise and traffic. Great track to drive for me, it was, but an F1 car likely would be diabolical at points, and much of the race would be under caution with more than one or two cars leaving the circuit-retrieval is very hard, getting stuck is guarenteed. Schumacher would wet himself in the Corkscrew, anyway. Not out of fear, but frustration with silly things like elevation changes of that nature.
My $.02. :)
George
I think F1, having watched two British GP's in the 70's, and several Long Beach GP's (F1 and CART), now is only marginally interesting to watch. At least they did penalize Schumacher at Monaco, but the technology is so esoteric at this point, the cars look and sound alike, and there are NO Yanks in the series but one. Of course it is hard to drum up interest in the US. The Italians have a stake in F1, drivers, teams, etc. We had a stake in it when Gurney and Penske ran, but no more. I root for Montoya, fogiving his antics, because of his connection to US motorsports. If Schumacher were to show race in a US series, as US drivers did in F1 in prior days, I think you might get more interest.
I agree with the shots at IMS. Lousy venue except in some ways. Watkins Glen, Mid-Ohio, Road Atlanta...many good courses are out there. Laguna Seca has the history, but so do some others, and in CA, with people so hyper-sensitive about noise and "their rights" (i.e.-nobody should have more privileges than me!!!!), the facilities at the track, I don't think so. The locals would have fits about noise and traffic. Great track to drive for me, it was, but an F1 car likely would be diabolical at points, and much of the race would be under caution with more than one or two cars leaving the circuit-retrieval is very hard, getting stuck is guarenteed. Schumacher would wet himself in the Corkscrew, anyway. Not out of fear, but frustration with silly things like elevation changes of that nature.
My $.02. :)
George
| REXLR8 | 06-23-2006 09:21 PM |
well europeans and americans dont really get along anyways lol. this is a european sport and, as a country, we dont really have a reason to watch except to see a 12th place finish by the only american driver in the feild. do i love f1? hell yes, ive seen every race this season and im going to the USGP. but i can safetly say i am a) one of the only people i know who follows F1. and b) everyone else i know would rather be at the daytona 500 than the USGP. that would be great if F1 was more recongnized in the US. oh well, here's to wishing!
| ghschirtz | 06-23-2006 10:40 PM |
^^hang in there, Rex. I would rather watch the US GP than NASCAR, too. Just nostalgic for the sounds of a DFV Cosworth, Matra 12, BRM 12, Ferrari 12...and all the different bodywork, as the aero stuff got figured out. Still more interesting than tube-frame replicars....
George
George
| MattDell | 06-23-2006 11:53 PM |
[QUOTE=artkevin]You can probably do the whole weekend with a couple of budies for undr $500 a head if needed[/QUOTE]
I'm doing it for under $150/head
2 tickets off eBay for $95.
1 scalped ticket for ???
1 hotel room for $99.
Two tanks of gas for $80.
Divided by three people
:devil:
-Matt
I'm doing it for under $150/head
2 tickets off eBay for $95.
1 scalped ticket for ???
1 hotel room for $99.
Two tanks of gas for $80.
Divided by three people
:devil:
-Matt
| Rally_wgn | 06-23-2006 11:55 PM |
Why do I find F1 nearly as boring as NASCRAP. I guess I'll stick to touring cars. I am one of those casual viewers perhaps.
| bitterWRX | 06-24-2006 01:08 AM |
[QUOTE=Rally_wgn]Why do I find F1 nearly as boring as NASCRAP. I guess I'll stick to touring cars. I am one of those casual viewers perhaps.[/QUOTE]
Its boring because its rare to pass someone. Once you get in front, it's pretty hard to pass. That's why they've been doing so much to put "excitment" back into the F1 sport: ala new qualifying system, no tire warmers next season, and maybe that new wing concept. This is to "encourage" passing and thereby more fun for the fans.
Its boring because its rare to pass someone. Once you get in front, it's pretty hard to pass. That's why they've been doing so much to put "excitment" back into the F1 sport: ala new qualifying system, no tire warmers next season, and maybe that new wing concept. This is to "encourage" passing and thereby more fun for the fans.
| parker/slc/gc8fan | 06-24-2006 03:14 AM |
Thats why I think FIA is sentencing F1 to death because of thier attachment to certain rules.
It's obvious how hard areodynamics makes it to race at those speeds, colsely.
It's obvious how hard areodynamics makes it to race at those speeds, colsely.
| REXLR8 | 06-24-2006 08:11 AM |
they should just have another "turbo era" with uniquely styled cars and 1500 hp out of 4 and 6 cylinders :D
| FoxyWRX | 06-24-2006 09:22 AM |
Tony George has no idea who he's dealing with, like it or not, Bernie will eat him for lunch. Tony's main problem is he's hemmoraging money propping up the IRL, so he's looking to save anywhere he can. FTG.
| ptclaus98 | 06-24-2006 01:45 PM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck]**** no, if you think Indy is bad, Laguna Seca would be 10 times worse.
I agree with what Bernie is saying, we don't give a crap about F1 and we sued him because of the race whcih was run, even though the tickets specifically say on them "no refunds, no exceptions" if you show up to the track. An very bad thing happened last year (although much of the fan reaction was caused by IMS officials not telling anyone AT the track wth was going on) and Michelin did what they could to recoup the fans, and we go out and sue them. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that.
I am going to Indy this year. It is super cheap and a very good time.[/QUOTE]
Alright, I am a first-year guy. What happened last year? :confused:
I agree with what Bernie is saying, we don't give a crap about F1 and we sued him because of the race whcih was run, even though the tickets specifically say on them "no refunds, no exceptions" if you show up to the track. An very bad thing happened last year (although much of the fan reaction was caused by IMS officials not telling anyone AT the track wth was going on) and Michelin did what they could to recoup the fans, and we go out and sue them. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that.
I am going to Indy this year. It is super cheap and a very good time.[/QUOTE]
Alright, I am a first-year guy. What happened last year? :confused:
| f1vlad | 06-24-2006 01:53 PM |
[QUOTE=ptclaus98]Alright, I am a first-year guy. What happened last year? :confused:[/QUOTE]
six cars participated in the race:
[img]http://jimbox.homedns.org/rants/images/uploads/usgp05.jpg[/img]
And unlike most people, I too love BRICKYARD, this is my fourth visit next weekend, it's great time during race and at night in downtown, can't picture my summer without brickyard :)
six cars participated in the race:
[img]http://jimbox.homedns.org/rants/images/uploads/usgp05.jpg[/img]
And unlike most people, I too love BRICKYARD, this is my fourth visit next weekend, it's great time during race and at night in downtown, can't picture my summer without brickyard :)
| bitterWRX | 06-24-2006 03:08 PM |
[QUOTE=ptclaus98]Alright, I am a first-year guy. What happened last year? :confused:[/QUOTE]
After two car-wrecking accidents during practice on the large right hand sweep (ala Nascar) which were tire related. Michelin could not handle the lateral G load with the high temperature under the one-set-of tire rule in the 2005 season. It resulted in tire blow outs. Since this was a real danger to the drivers, there was a furious demand for a chicane to slow down speeds into corner 13. However the FIA refused to put a chicane and so the cars running Michelin tires boycotted the race. After the formation lap, all the Michelin teams pulled into Pit Lane and thus, only 6 cars started in 05 USGP.
After two car-wrecking accidents during practice on the large right hand sweep (ala Nascar) which were tire related. Michelin could not handle the lateral G load with the high temperature under the one-set-of tire rule in the 2005 season. It resulted in tire blow outs. Since this was a real danger to the drivers, there was a furious demand for a chicane to slow down speeds into corner 13. However the FIA refused to put a chicane and so the cars running Michelin tires boycotted the race. After the formation lap, all the Michelin teams pulled into Pit Lane and thus, only 6 cars started in 05 USGP.
| nKoan | 06-24-2006 07:15 PM |
No suprise but the Manufacturers disagree with Bernie.
[url]http://www.crash.net/news_view~t~US-GP-given-thumbs-up-~cid~0~id~132622.htm[/url]
[quote]
Although Formula One supremo Bernie Ecclestone is quoted as saying that F1 doesn't need an American Grand Prix, the race has been given backing by four leading members of the paddock.
Ecclestone told The Times earlier this week that he was happy for the sport to keep visiting the country but wasn't prepared to subsidise the race as 'it doesn't matter to F1 if there is no grand prix in the US' � although that view wasn't shared by Nick Fry, Mario Theissen, Jean Todt and Norbert Haug when quizzed on the issue in the Friday press conference in Montreal.
"I'd say we think it's very important to have a race in America," Honda chief Fry said, "and would like more than one, so I don't think we'd agree with that [Ecclestone's view]."
Todt was quick to point out that the US is the biggest market for Ferrari and therefore is an important part of the GP scene, a view shared by BMW Sauber motorsport boss Theissen � who, like Fry, said he would like to see a second American race added to the calendar.
"It would be very important for the manufacturers," he explained. "America is basically the only big country in which Formula One does not play the dominant role in motorsport and I think we shouldn't give up on achieving this. The Indianapolis race has in the previous years had the biggest attendance of all the races and I think it would certainly be worth to follow up on this or even to have a second one."
Of course, the 2005 running of the American GP has left F1 with much work to do when the paddock descends on Indianapolis in a weeks time and Haug said it was important for F1 to put on a display for the fans � with the race being an important part of the calendar.
"We are a German-American company officially and if I could, then I wish we could have at least two races in America," the Mercedes motorsport boss said. "I would love to have an American team � let's say if we could encourage a guy like Roger Penske. Of course, it would be fantastic to have a Canadian team, but that has to be the strategic approach.
"I know Bernie differently and I was surprised [by his comments] and it was probably out of context, but I don't know what the discussion was. To my knowledge and to our knowledge he was instrumental in getting the US Grand Prix and without him it probably wouldn't have been there and I think that in Indianapolis you look at the first year and how enormous it was in 2000.
"Of course last year was far from being ideal but we have another chance next week and I'm sure we will go for it and have a very good race. They are normally very good races and as short as the circuit is and as special as the circuit is, it always has been entertaining races and it is important for us.
"It is our second biggest market for Mercedes Benz and is obviously very important for our hosts Chrysler. We are producing a lot of cars over there and of course we want to support America and I think we need to explore America further in Formula One in the future. My wish in the long term would be to develop an American team with American drivers, even American engine manufacturer, even a combination of that. That would be great."
[/quote]
[url]http://www.crash.net/news_view~t~US-GP-given-thumbs-up-~cid~0~id~132622.htm[/url]
[quote]
Although Formula One supremo Bernie Ecclestone is quoted as saying that F1 doesn't need an American Grand Prix, the race has been given backing by four leading members of the paddock.
Ecclestone told The Times earlier this week that he was happy for the sport to keep visiting the country but wasn't prepared to subsidise the race as 'it doesn't matter to F1 if there is no grand prix in the US' � although that view wasn't shared by Nick Fry, Mario Theissen, Jean Todt and Norbert Haug when quizzed on the issue in the Friday press conference in Montreal.
"I'd say we think it's very important to have a race in America," Honda chief Fry said, "and would like more than one, so I don't think we'd agree with that [Ecclestone's view]."
Todt was quick to point out that the US is the biggest market for Ferrari and therefore is an important part of the GP scene, a view shared by BMW Sauber motorsport boss Theissen � who, like Fry, said he would like to see a second American race added to the calendar.
"It would be very important for the manufacturers," he explained. "America is basically the only big country in which Formula One does not play the dominant role in motorsport and I think we shouldn't give up on achieving this. The Indianapolis race has in the previous years had the biggest attendance of all the races and I think it would certainly be worth to follow up on this or even to have a second one."
Of course, the 2005 running of the American GP has left F1 with much work to do when the paddock descends on Indianapolis in a weeks time and Haug said it was important for F1 to put on a display for the fans � with the race being an important part of the calendar.
"We are a German-American company officially and if I could, then I wish we could have at least two races in America," the Mercedes motorsport boss said. "I would love to have an American team � let's say if we could encourage a guy like Roger Penske. Of course, it would be fantastic to have a Canadian team, but that has to be the strategic approach.
"I know Bernie differently and I was surprised [by his comments] and it was probably out of context, but I don't know what the discussion was. To my knowledge and to our knowledge he was instrumental in getting the US Grand Prix and without him it probably wouldn't have been there and I think that in Indianapolis you look at the first year and how enormous it was in 2000.
"Of course last year was far from being ideal but we have another chance next week and I'm sure we will go for it and have a very good race. They are normally very good races and as short as the circuit is and as special as the circuit is, it always has been entertaining races and it is important for us.
"It is our second biggest market for Mercedes Benz and is obviously very important for our hosts Chrysler. We are producing a lot of cars over there and of course we want to support America and I think we need to explore America further in Formula One in the future. My wish in the long term would be to develop an American team with American drivers, even American engine manufacturer, even a combination of that. That would be great."
[/quote]
| Sharky NRK | 06-24-2006 08:06 PM |
[QUOTE=spazegun2213]I donno, while being an a**hole about the situation, he has a good point. Most americans would rather sit on their RV's in lawn chairs drinking buds, and rooting for the newest DEI star, then even THINK about watching F1. Yes, after last year america is VERY dissapointed about F1 in the US.
I mean, F1 is hardly covered by any TV station. When i flip on speed 80% of the time I'm staring at some hill billy trying to tell me about the spring rates of a nascar (if I'm lucky!). I dont care about that, i want to see REAL racing, anything that is NOT run in the wet is NOT racing.
sorry i went on a rant there.
I think if america wants a USGP then we will have to pull in more attention for it. I mean look at the indy 500!! EVERY GP gets about that attention. Vs the USGP, its like "oh is there a race this weekend."
More needs to be done to support F1 in the states if its actually going to stay here.
thats my .02[/QUOTE]
indeed
I mean, F1 is hardly covered by any TV station. When i flip on speed 80% of the time I'm staring at some hill billy trying to tell me about the spring rates of a nascar (if I'm lucky!). I dont care about that, i want to see REAL racing, anything that is NOT run in the wet is NOT racing.
sorry i went on a rant there.
I think if america wants a USGP then we will have to pull in more attention for it. I mean look at the indy 500!! EVERY GP gets about that attention. Vs the USGP, its like "oh is there a race this weekend."
More needs to be done to support F1 in the states if its actually going to stay here.
thats my .02[/QUOTE]
indeed
| ptclaus98 | 06-24-2006 08:08 PM |
[QUOTE=bitterWRX]After two car-wrecking accidents during practice on the large right hand sweep (ala Nascar) which were tire related. Michelin could not handle the lateral G load with the high temperature under the one-set-of tire rule in the 2005 season. It resulted in tire blow outs. Since this was a real danger to the drivers, there was a furious demand for a chicane to slow down speeds into corner 13. However the FIA refused to put a chicane and so the cars running Michelin tires boycotted the race. After the formation lap, all the Michelin teams pulled into Pit Lane and thus, only 6 cars started in 05 USGP.[/QUOTE]
:eek: :huh:
You're ****in' me!
What the hell! That pic is ****in' crazy! I wish Infineon would renovate. That should be where the USGP is at.
:eek: :huh:
You're ****in' me!
What the hell! That pic is ****in' crazy! I wish Infineon would renovate. That should be where the USGP is at.
| brizey | 06-24-2006 08:31 PM |
Wonder if that comment about a F1 race in Italy drawing more viewers than a NASCAR race is true? I doubt it.
| finnRex | 06-24-2006 09:03 PM |
OT style: Bernie can DIAF.
Mika
Mika
| artkevin | 06-24-2006 09:10 PM |
[QUOTE=ptclaus98]:eek: :huh:
You're ****in' me!
What the hell! That pic is ****in' crazy! I wish Infineon would renovate. That should be where the USGP is at.[/QUOTE]
Nope. Its true, I was there. Couldn't believe that a bunch of grown men couldn't figure out a solution that wouldn't piss off 120k people watching them in person much less over the world.
I do think that the Italy comment is true. I mean NASCAR only pulls from a USA base audience and maybe a little of Canada and Mexico and some die hard "anything that goes fast" people in Europe. F1 draws on the entire planet as far as viewing. Also, the Tifosi are crazy. Look at any highlight footage of a Ferrari winning in Monza. The only bigger happy crowd I have ever seen is after the 24 Hours of LeMans.
I also think we need to be careful about bashing NASCAR. I don't like the series any more then most of the people on this board but I do respect it/them. MLB doesn't bad mouth the NFL if its figures slump. F1 needs to lean more on the American media and there needs to be more of a buzz in general. Like someone else said, if they got the same or half the coverage on all the major outlets as the Indy 500 viewer ship would be crazy.
You're ****in' me!
What the hell! That pic is ****in' crazy! I wish Infineon would renovate. That should be where the USGP is at.[/QUOTE]
Nope. Its true, I was there. Couldn't believe that a bunch of grown men couldn't figure out a solution that wouldn't piss off 120k people watching them in person much less over the world.
I do think that the Italy comment is true. I mean NASCAR only pulls from a USA base audience and maybe a little of Canada and Mexico and some die hard "anything that goes fast" people in Europe. F1 draws on the entire planet as far as viewing. Also, the Tifosi are crazy. Look at any highlight footage of a Ferrari winning in Monza. The only bigger happy crowd I have ever seen is after the 24 Hours of LeMans.
I also think we need to be careful about bashing NASCAR. I don't like the series any more then most of the people on this board but I do respect it/them. MLB doesn't bad mouth the NFL if its figures slump. F1 needs to lean more on the American media and there needs to be more of a buzz in general. Like someone else said, if they got the same or half the coverage on all the major outlets as the Indy 500 viewer ship would be crazy.
| ptclaus98 | 06-24-2006 09:23 PM |
[QUOTE=artkevin]Nope. Its true, I was there. Couldn't believe that a bunch of grown men couldn't figure out a solution that wouldn't piss off 120k people watching them in person much less over the world.
I do think that the Italy comment is true. I mean NASCAR only pulls from a USA base audience and maybe a little of Canada and Mexico and some die hard "anything that goes fast" people in Europe. F1 draws on the entire planet as far as viewing. Also, the Tifosi are crazy. Look at any highlight footage of a Ferrari winning in Monza. The only bigger happy crowd I have ever seen is after the 24 Hours of LeMans.
I also think we need to be careful about bashing NASCAR. I don't like the series any more then most of the people on this board but I do respect it/them. MLB doesn't bad mouth the NFL if its figures slump. F1 needs to lean more on the American media and there needs to be more of a buzz in general. Like someone else said, if they got the same or half the coverage on all the major outlets as the Indy 500 viewer ship would be crazy.[/QUOTE]
I'm actually psyched for the NASCAR race this week. Th3y turn left this week! :banana:
*hides in corner*
I do think that the Italy comment is true. I mean NASCAR only pulls from a USA base audience and maybe a little of Canada and Mexico and some die hard "anything that goes fast" people in Europe. F1 draws on the entire planet as far as viewing. Also, the Tifosi are crazy. Look at any highlight footage of a Ferrari winning in Monza. The only bigger happy crowd I have ever seen is after the 24 Hours of LeMans.
I also think we need to be careful about bashing NASCAR. I don't like the series any more then most of the people on this board but I do respect it/them. MLB doesn't bad mouth the NFL if its figures slump. F1 needs to lean more on the American media and there needs to be more of a buzz in general. Like someone else said, if they got the same or half the coverage on all the major outlets as the Indy 500 viewer ship would be crazy.[/QUOTE]
I'm actually psyched for the NASCAR race this week. Th3y turn left this week! :banana:
*hides in corner*
| Vampyr | 06-25-2006 09:39 AM |
Like other posters have said...
America doesn't give a crap about open wheel racing.
Look at all the idiots out there buying Monte Carlos because they think they bought the same car that Dale Earnhardt drives. NASCAR has NOTHING in common with the street car.
But nonetheless, NASCAR has 100s of sponsors, which bring in 100s of employees of the sponsored companies... which brings in family members, and their friends...etc...
Plus, you have fan appreciation day, and autograph sessions, and car displays at your local Piggly Wiggly :rolleyes:
Formula 1 does not have very much American sponsorship, so when you what a F1 race, you have no idea what that ORANGE sign means, and you have no idea what BENNETTON is. And you rarely get to see a driver, much less say hello. And only the wealthy can afford to buy a BMW, or Mercedes, or Ferrari.
Bernie is right... America doesn't care about open wheel racing... and to be honest, the Indy 500 is the ONLY open wheel race the average person in the US knows about.
This country doesn't deserve to have F1 racing. Too many noneducated blue collar union workers making 35/hr buying beer and cars that support their favorite NASCAR team.
America doesn't give a crap about open wheel racing.
Look at all the idiots out there buying Monte Carlos because they think they bought the same car that Dale Earnhardt drives. NASCAR has NOTHING in common with the street car.
But nonetheless, NASCAR has 100s of sponsors, which bring in 100s of employees of the sponsored companies... which brings in family members, and their friends...etc...
Plus, you have fan appreciation day, and autograph sessions, and car displays at your local Piggly Wiggly :rolleyes:
Formula 1 does not have very much American sponsorship, so when you what a F1 race, you have no idea what that ORANGE sign means, and you have no idea what BENNETTON is. And you rarely get to see a driver, much less say hello. And only the wealthy can afford to buy a BMW, or Mercedes, or Ferrari.
Bernie is right... America doesn't care about open wheel racing... and to be honest, the Indy 500 is the ONLY open wheel race the average person in the US knows about.
This country doesn't deserve to have F1 racing. Too many noneducated blue collar union workers making 35/hr buying beer and cars that support their favorite NASCAR team.
| wvallwheeldrive | 06-25-2006 12:48 PM |
[QUOTE=Vampyr]Like other posters have said...
America doesn't give a crap about open wheel racing.
Look at all the idiots out there buying Monte Carlos because they think they bought the same car that Dale Earnhardt drives. NASCAR has NOTHING in common with the street car.
But nonetheless, NASCAR has 100s of sponsors, which bring in 100s of employees of the sponsored companies... which brings in family members, and their friends...etc...
Plus, you have fan appreciation day, and autograph sessions, and car displays at your local Piggly Wiggly :rolleyes:
Formula 1 does not have very much American sponsorship, so when you what a F1 race, you have no idea what that ORANGE sign means, and you have no idea what BENNETTON is. And you rarely get to see a driver, much less say hello. And only the wealthy can afford to buy a BMW, or Mercedes, or Ferrari.
Bernie is right... America doesn't care about open wheel racing... and to be honest, the Indy 500 is the ONLY open wheel race the average person in the US knows about.
This country doesn't deserve to have F1 racing. Too many noneducated blue collar union workers making 35/hr buying beer and cars that support their favorite NASCAR team.[/QUOTE]
To say this country Doesn't deserve to have an F-1 races i like saying NASCAR is still made up of just beer swiging rednecks from the south. I think F-1 should put on some better advertising maybe working with NASCAR. Thay could possably run with nascar at infinon or the glen, imagine the audiance that would open F-1 up to in the states.
I also think that an American based team and a driver that could run good from time to time would make it more interesting for us undeserving American fans,
BTW, i'm a racing fan I watch everything from nascar to F-1, drag racing an Motor bikes, and i really wish cart and irl would get baack together to help spread the fan base of open-wheel racing
America doesn't give a crap about open wheel racing.
Look at all the idiots out there buying Monte Carlos because they think they bought the same car that Dale Earnhardt drives. NASCAR has NOTHING in common with the street car.
But nonetheless, NASCAR has 100s of sponsors, which bring in 100s of employees of the sponsored companies... which brings in family members, and their friends...etc...
Plus, you have fan appreciation day, and autograph sessions, and car displays at your local Piggly Wiggly :rolleyes:
Formula 1 does not have very much American sponsorship, so when you what a F1 race, you have no idea what that ORANGE sign means, and you have no idea what BENNETTON is. And you rarely get to see a driver, much less say hello. And only the wealthy can afford to buy a BMW, or Mercedes, or Ferrari.
Bernie is right... America doesn't care about open wheel racing... and to be honest, the Indy 500 is the ONLY open wheel race the average person in the US knows about.
This country doesn't deserve to have F1 racing. Too many noneducated blue collar union workers making 35/hr buying beer and cars that support their favorite NASCAR team.[/QUOTE]
To say this country Doesn't deserve to have an F-1 races i like saying NASCAR is still made up of just beer swiging rednecks from the south. I think F-1 should put on some better advertising maybe working with NASCAR. Thay could possably run with nascar at infinon or the glen, imagine the audiance that would open F-1 up to in the states.
I also think that an American based team and a driver that could run good from time to time would make it more interesting for us undeserving American fans,
BTW, i'm a racing fan I watch everything from nascar to F-1, drag racing an Motor bikes, and i really wish cart and irl would get baack together to help spread the fan base of open-wheel racing
| hotrod | 06-25-2006 01:45 PM |
[quote]America doesn't give a crap about open wheel racing.[/quote]
Not true -- America doesn't give a crap about crappy open wheel racing. The Indy 500 has permanent grandstands seating for 267,000 fans, and routinely sells out. There are typically about 100,000 infield and "find your own seat" spectators on site. One year I remember they had so many folks hanging all over a jury rig scaffold or grand stand, that it collapsed during the race. The world wide TV and Radio broadcasts are estimated to account for approximately 320 million fans for a single day event.
[url]http://indymotorspeedway.com/pic-73.htm[/url]
[url]http://indymotorspeedway.com/pic-74.htm[/url]
Here are some more period photographs of the Indy 500 in the early 1970's check out the crowd pictures and tell me Americans have no interest in open wheel racing.
[url]http://www.yesterdaysneuz.com/Mainpages/Indy%20500.htm[/url]
In the late 1960's and early 1970's when they sold pay per view coverage to the race they filled movie theaters all over the country. I know because I bought one of those tickets for the 1973 "rain out" race, and jostled my way to the concession stand for pop corn only to end up going home because the race was delayed.
What was the difference ? Good marketing and a good product. At that time you had the Jimmy Clark, Graham Hill revolution front engine Offy powere roadster vs rear engine Lotus chassis battles. The STP Novi monsters and the Gas Turbine revolution which resulted in banning the turbines and AWD because they were so dominant.
All the major car magazines and publications like Mechanics Illustrated ran mulitipaged lead up to Indy coverage with detailed discriptions of the new innovations like Micky Thompsons "go karts", Smokey Yunnick and Chevy and the Ford V-8 development.
In short there was innovation and drama. On Memorial day it was tradition in my family that the radio came on for the duration of the race and NOTHING happened that interfered with the race. If you ran down to the hardware store to pick up something you would likely jump out of the car and run inside to hear the same radio broadcast on the radio in the store.
The reason most Americans have no interest in F1 is that it is a farse as a race, and the organizers could care less about us and have consistantly dropped the ball every time they had an opportunity to involve the American audience. If we had a Gurney Eagle running with an American driver like Mark Donohue (won Indy 500 1972) we could easily have good coverage.
1973/74: Gurney issued a challenge at Formula 1 by publicly betting $100,000. dollars that an Eagle Indy car will beat a Formula 1 Grand Prix car in a one lap contest at the Nuerburgring, Germany. The bet was widely discussed in the international press, nobody ever accepted his challenge.
NASCAR succeeded because it gave the fans a race to watch that was interesting, accessable, and commercially viable to the guys who were paying the bills. Just like the American Le Mans series is beginning to gather some market penetration here, endurance racing is far more likely to be a market winner here in the U.S. especially now that we have several competetive American cars / teams that participate.
Larry
Not true -- America doesn't give a crap about crappy open wheel racing. The Indy 500 has permanent grandstands seating for 267,000 fans, and routinely sells out. There are typically about 100,000 infield and "find your own seat" spectators on site. One year I remember they had so many folks hanging all over a jury rig scaffold or grand stand, that it collapsed during the race. The world wide TV and Radio broadcasts are estimated to account for approximately 320 million fans for a single day event.
[url]http://indymotorspeedway.com/pic-73.htm[/url]
[url]http://indymotorspeedway.com/pic-74.htm[/url]
Here are some more period photographs of the Indy 500 in the early 1970's check out the crowd pictures and tell me Americans have no interest in open wheel racing.
[url]http://www.yesterdaysneuz.com/Mainpages/Indy%20500.htm[/url]
In the late 1960's and early 1970's when they sold pay per view coverage to the race they filled movie theaters all over the country. I know because I bought one of those tickets for the 1973 "rain out" race, and jostled my way to the concession stand for pop corn only to end up going home because the race was delayed.
What was the difference ? Good marketing and a good product. At that time you had the Jimmy Clark, Graham Hill revolution front engine Offy powere roadster vs rear engine Lotus chassis battles. The STP Novi monsters and the Gas Turbine revolution which resulted in banning the turbines and AWD because they were so dominant.
All the major car magazines and publications like Mechanics Illustrated ran mulitipaged lead up to Indy coverage with detailed discriptions of the new innovations like Micky Thompsons "go karts", Smokey Yunnick and Chevy and the Ford V-8 development.
In short there was innovation and drama. On Memorial day it was tradition in my family that the radio came on for the duration of the race and NOTHING happened that interfered with the race. If you ran down to the hardware store to pick up something you would likely jump out of the car and run inside to hear the same radio broadcast on the radio in the store.
The reason most Americans have no interest in F1 is that it is a farse as a race, and the organizers could care less about us and have consistantly dropped the ball every time they had an opportunity to involve the American audience. If we had a Gurney Eagle running with an American driver like Mark Donohue (won Indy 500 1972) we could easily have good coverage.
1973/74: Gurney issued a challenge at Formula 1 by publicly betting $100,000. dollars that an Eagle Indy car will beat a Formula 1 Grand Prix car in a one lap contest at the Nuerburgring, Germany. The bet was widely discussed in the international press, nobody ever accepted his challenge.
NASCAR succeeded because it gave the fans a race to watch that was interesting, accessable, and commercially viable to the guys who were paying the bills. Just like the American Le Mans series is beginning to gather some market penetration here, endurance racing is far more likely to be a market winner here in the U.S. especially now that we have several competetive American cars / teams that participate.
Larry
| parker/slc/gc8fan | 06-25-2006 05:53 PM |
Maybe bernie has been reading all of our posts about his contract with Satan.
I know that F1 needs all sorts of change to make it cost effective, and technilogically advanced in speed and development. Bernie cant like that idea, he's lost with out teams.
The new engine rules are as daft as ever, the teams can continue to develop thier motors as much as they want. But, when we get to 2008, the teams have to go back to thier 2006 spec motor (heard it on speed tv). If that isnt horrible rule makng from the FIA what is it?
One thing it isnt is a horrible desplay of flexability in it's rule making when not allowing michelin to run a secondary tire that was provided after the initial issue was discovered.
Bernie knows that most of us know how to gut punch his hierarchy, which we do as often as we feel motivated to. Our knowlede of F1 is quite substantial considering it's from the outside. But since we are all hardcore racing fans, we leave it outside of the track, well, except for last years situation. I think we gained respect from the fans for our display at what the world wide fans must have felt as-well. This means he's not the most popular racing fugure in America (he certainly is in Monaco).
Unfortunatly for us, he as some implied dominion over Formula one, (in-between the FIA and the organizers?) This gives him control over our desire to see a race.
He's simply getting all he can for driving a thousand miles or so (which should be as easy as cake). Luckily for Tony, the Europeans (imo) consider it quite traditional/honerable to race at Indy.
It's all stupid drama you dont get from American racing,which I'm enjoying now.
I know that F1 needs all sorts of change to make it cost effective, and technilogically advanced in speed and development. Bernie cant like that idea, he's lost with out teams.
The new engine rules are as daft as ever, the teams can continue to develop thier motors as much as they want. But, when we get to 2008, the teams have to go back to thier 2006 spec motor (heard it on speed tv). If that isnt horrible rule makng from the FIA what is it?
One thing it isnt is a horrible desplay of flexability in it's rule making when not allowing michelin to run a secondary tire that was provided after the initial issue was discovered.
Bernie knows that most of us know how to gut punch his hierarchy, which we do as often as we feel motivated to. Our knowlede of F1 is quite substantial considering it's from the outside. But since we are all hardcore racing fans, we leave it outside of the track, well, except for last years situation. I think we gained respect from the fans for our display at what the world wide fans must have felt as-well. This means he's not the most popular racing fugure in America (he certainly is in Monaco).
Unfortunatly for us, he as some implied dominion over Formula one, (in-between the FIA and the organizers?) This gives him control over our desire to see a race.
He's simply getting all he can for driving a thousand miles or so (which should be as easy as cake). Luckily for Tony, the Europeans (imo) consider it quite traditional/honerable to race at Indy.
It's all stupid drama you dont get from American racing,which I'm enjoying now.
| OnTheGas | 06-25-2006 11:59 PM |
Bernie's negotiating ploys...
�
�
[QUOTE=nKoan]No suprise but the Manufacturers disagree with Bernie.
[url]http://www.crash.net/news_view~t~US-GP-given-thumbs-up-~cid~0~id~132622.htm[/url][/QUOTE]Thanks for posting this... Bernie also knows that the US is a crucial market for F1... This is a just a negotiating ploy on his part to try pull more money out of Tony George's pockets.
I think that, behind the scenes, Bernie himself has done much to help bring F1 back to the states. I think that also Bernie has helped to bring a US driver back into F1 (w/the Red Bull US F1 driver search program). And in the future, I would not be surprised if Bernie has a hand in helping Marco Andretti land an F1 deal.
This is Bernie's style... In negotiations, he will throw a pitch high and inside, and do it in the press, if it may benefit his negotiating position.
These comments by Bernie probably reflect, not on the weakness of F1 in the US, but instead on the weakness of Bernie's hand in this poker game. Bernie knows that F1 needs, or at least would really like, to be stronger in the US market. So, in a way, Tony George holds the better poker hand, and TG will probably get another sweet-heart deal from F1 to host the USGP.
At best, Bernie may succeed in persuading Tony to arrange for better promotion of F1 in the US. But I'm not holding my breath on that happening. You should know that I say that as an F1 fan who would love to see F1 become popular here in the states. I would guess this is a sentiment that most of us here share.
[url]http://www.crash.net/news_view~t~US-GP-given-thumbs-up-~cid~0~id~132622.htm[/url][/QUOTE]Thanks for posting this... Bernie also knows that the US is a crucial market for F1... This is a just a negotiating ploy on his part to try pull more money out of Tony George's pockets.
I think that, behind the scenes, Bernie himself has done much to help bring F1 back to the states. I think that also Bernie has helped to bring a US driver back into F1 (w/the Red Bull US F1 driver search program). And in the future, I would not be surprised if Bernie has a hand in helping Marco Andretti land an F1 deal.
This is Bernie's style... In negotiations, he will throw a pitch high and inside, and do it in the press, if it may benefit his negotiating position.
These comments by Bernie probably reflect, not on the weakness of F1 in the US, but instead on the weakness of Bernie's hand in this poker game. Bernie knows that F1 needs, or at least would really like, to be stronger in the US market. So, in a way, Tony George holds the better poker hand, and TG will probably get another sweet-heart deal from F1 to host the USGP.
At best, Bernie may succeed in persuading Tony to arrange for better promotion of F1 in the US. But I'm not holding my breath on that happening. You should know that I say that as an F1 fan who would love to see F1 become popular here in the states. I would guess this is a sentiment that most of us here share.
| wvallwheeldrive | 06-26-2006 10:00 AM |
i think one of the biggest problem is the live telecast at 4 and 5 in the morning, no casual racing fan is going to get up that early to watch a sport they cannot easily relate to.
| Torch | 06-27-2006 04:16 AM |
I think Michelin should have been responsible for what happened at the USGP last year. They knew what the track was going to look like, and they were not prepaired.
Also, bringing down the engines from V10's to V8's to save money was one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. They spent more money on R&D for the V8's because they were a new platform it was not worth the change.
Also, I think the US is a crucial market for F-1. It also does not matter what time the race comes on we all have VCR's,DVR's,Tivo ect.
Also, bringing down the engines from V10's to V8's to save money was one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. They spent more money on R&D for the V8's because they were a new platform it was not worth the change.
Also, I think the US is a crucial market for F-1. It also does not matter what time the race comes on we all have VCR's,DVR's,Tivo ect.
| StuBeck | 06-27-2006 08:54 AM |
It wasn't completely Michelin's fault last year, it was the lack of tyre pressure the teams were running. They were held responsible and paid for all the tickets and 10k for htis year, you can't really ask them to do much more.
Switching to V8's was about safety not money.
Switching to V8's was about safety not money.
| kfoote | 06-27-2006 09:16 AM |
As far as venues for F1 goes, Indy, Laguna Seca, and possibly Miller Motorsports Park, are the only two tracks that have facilities even close to being acceptable by F1 standards. The garages alone are a multimillion dollar proposition, and these are the only three tracks that currently have adequate garages for F1 in the US. Laguna Seca has major traffic access problems, limited hotels, and getting 100k people there would be a major nightmare. From what I have seen, Miller has reached a good balance of being enough in the middle of nowhere so that there are no neighbor problems, but close enough to Salt Lake City that there is reasonable hotel space.
As far as the other venues mentioned, or where I would like to see F1 run, Mid Ohio, Watkins Glen, and Sears Point do not have adequate garages, Road America, and Road Atlanta have no garages, and all of the above would need major safety improvements, and the surrounding areas are not really capable of handling 100k people.
Though the track at Indy is not the best road course in the US, there are 2 places that F1 cars can pass, it is spectator friendly, has the facilities, and is in an area that can accomodate the F1 circus.
As far as the other venues mentioned, or where I would like to see F1 run, Mid Ohio, Watkins Glen, and Sears Point do not have adequate garages, Road America, and Road Atlanta have no garages, and all of the above would need major safety improvements, and the surrounding areas are not really capable of handling 100k people.
Though the track at Indy is not the best road course in the US, there are 2 places that F1 cars can pass, it is spectator friendly, has the facilities, and is in an area that can accomodate the F1 circus.
| artkevin | 06-27-2006 09:36 AM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck]It wasn't completely Michelin's fault last year, it was the lack of tyre pressure the teams were running. They were held responsible and paid for all the tickets and 10k for htis year, you can't really ask them to do much more.
Switching to V8's was about safety not money.[/QUOTE]
"teams"= Toyota
Some others like McLaren and Red Bull siad they saw some of the same signs but none of the other teams had anything close to a failure while Toyota had two.
The V8 switch was proposed as money and saftey issue.
Switching to V8's was about safety not money.[/QUOTE]
"teams"= Toyota
Some others like McLaren and Red Bull siad they saw some of the same signs but none of the other teams had anything close to a failure while Toyota had two.
The V8 switch was proposed as money and saftey issue.
| Torch | 06-27-2006 10:14 AM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck]It wasn't completely Michelin's fault last year, it was the lack of tyre pressure the teams were running. They were held responsible and paid for all the tickets and 10k for htis year, you can't really ask them to do much more.
Switching to V8's was about safety not money.[/QUOTE]
I have read that it was about money, it could be about safety too however, I remember reading that it was about money.
Lets say it was about safety too. How is that even reasonable? The times this year for pole are just a second or so off the times they were running the last few years. I also read that the cars were able to take some corners faster with the new setup.
Are you trying to tell me that Michelin did not know the tyre pressure that teams were running in their tires? I do not think so.
Switching to V8's was about safety not money.[/QUOTE]
I have read that it was about money, it could be about safety too however, I remember reading that it was about money.
Lets say it was about safety too. How is that even reasonable? The times this year for pole are just a second or so off the times they were running the last few years. I also read that the cars were able to take some corners faster with the new setup.
Are you trying to tell me that Michelin did not know the tyre pressure that teams were running in their tires? I do not think so.
| VpointVick | 06-27-2006 10:17 AM |
[QUOTE=Torch]Are you trying to tell me that Michelin did not know the tyre pressure that teams were running in their tires? I do not think so.[/QUOTE]
Michelin had distributed minimum air pressure guidelines for the weekend. Toyota disregarded them and had two bad crashes.
Michelin had distributed minimum air pressure guidelines for the weekend. Toyota disregarded them and had two bad crashes.
| artkevin | 06-27-2006 10:25 AM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]Michelin had distributed minimum air pressure guidelines for the weekend. Toyota disregarded them and had two bad crashes.[/QUOTE]
ding ding ding.
Toyota couldn't get the mechanical grip that they wanted so kept going lower and lower on the tire pressure. Williams had the same issue in Istanbul last year but they cut their tires on the end plate of the rear wing and had run off area.
ding ding ding.
Toyota couldn't get the mechanical grip that they wanted so kept going lower and lower on the tire pressure. Williams had the same issue in Istanbul last year but they cut their tires on the end plate of the rear wing and had run off area.
| MattNJ2.8 | 06-28-2006 08:12 AM |
I know there's probably no good reason, but I can't stand Bernie.
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