| Phil Jr. | 08-12-2005 01:50 AM |
debagde+WRX wing = different class?
�
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Well I am going to do my very first autocross this sunday, and I was reading some of the rules...which are confusing as hell to me.
My car is bone stock except I have a WRX wing/trunklid and the "Subaru" badge was removed. So does that change what class I am in? I remember reading something about how debadging a car will change its class.
BTW, I am registered for AS right now, but can change that.
Thanks guys.
edit: ugh I fk'ed up the title :(
My car is bone stock except I have a WRX wing/trunklid and the "Subaru" badge was removed. So does that change what class I am in? I remember reading something about how debadging a car will change its class.
BTW, I am registered for AS right now, but can change that.
Thanks guys.
edit: ugh I fk'ed up the title :(
| KC | 08-12-2005 07:48 AM |
The wing will throw you into another class... unless of course the people you run against are cool with it in AS. I would go and find someone at the event when you register that helps with the decisions (novice chair or event chair) and ask them what they think.
Being a novice, it's not that big of a deal.... and also may not be to your competitors.
You can get away with more stuff locally if the people are cool... its when you get into divisional or national racing are the rules really enforced.
But don't be surprised if you get put into STU, where the car would be classed *if* it mattered to anyone.
If you plan on doing a full season in stock next year, I'd start looking for the picnic bench to put back on the car. ;)
Here's a little anecdote that happened recently:
We had someone come in to registration a N/A RX-7 few weeks ago when I was doing reg:
"What class would I be in with my car"
"What have you done to the car".
"It's mostly stock."
"What modifications?"
"Shocks, intake"
"Ok with just those things, you'd be in E-Stock"
Later, he's in the same rungroup I'm in...
Stripped interior, one seat, relocated battery, cage....
I brought it to his attention (with last years solo chair next to me who just happened to also be in the same run group) he needs to be in a differet class (like prepared) because that certainly isn't what we call a 'stock' car. :lol:
He didn't realize I was the same person from reg (changed shirt and hat) and he said to the old solo chair that he said what he had at registration.... to which Chris looked at me... and I said "I asked you what you had done to the car as far as modifications." (It the same line and same way I ask everyone).
There's no stopping someone that outright lies. Being honest at reg, and finding out beforehand would save some aggrivation down the road. :)
--kC
Being a novice, it's not that big of a deal.... and also may not be to your competitors.
You can get away with more stuff locally if the people are cool... its when you get into divisional or national racing are the rules really enforced.
But don't be surprised if you get put into STU, where the car would be classed *if* it mattered to anyone.
If you plan on doing a full season in stock next year, I'd start looking for the picnic bench to put back on the car. ;)
Here's a little anecdote that happened recently:
We had someone come in to registration a N/A RX-7 few weeks ago when I was doing reg:
"What class would I be in with my car"
"What have you done to the car".
"It's mostly stock."
"What modifications?"
"Shocks, intake"
"Ok with just those things, you'd be in E-Stock"
Later, he's in the same rungroup I'm in...
Stripped interior, one seat, relocated battery, cage....
I brought it to his attention (with last years solo chair next to me who just happened to also be in the same run group) he needs to be in a differet class (like prepared) because that certainly isn't what we call a 'stock' car. :lol:
He didn't realize I was the same person from reg (changed shirt and hat) and he said to the old solo chair that he said what he had at registration.... to which Chris looked at me... and I said "I asked you what you had done to the car as far as modifications." (It the same line and same way I ask everyone).
There's no stopping someone that outright lies. Being honest at reg, and finding out beforehand would save some aggrivation down the road. :)
--kC
| leecea | 08-12-2005 08:53 AM |
Maybe [U]he[/U] hadn't done those other mods, so theoretically he was answering your question :)
| KC | 08-12-2005 08:55 AM |
[QUOTE=leecea]Maybe [U]he[/U] hadn't done those other mods, so theoretically he was answering your question :)[/QUOTE]
leeca.. scroll up... you missed how I initially asked him in the original conversation... "What modifications?"
--kC
leeca.. scroll up... you missed how I initially asked him in the original conversation... "What modifications?"
--kC
| TheWRX | 08-12-2005 09:08 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]"What modifications?"
"Shocks, intake"
"Ok with just those things, you'd be in E-Stock"[/QUOTE]
Intake in Stock? :confused:
"Shocks, intake"
"Ok with just those things, you'd be in E-Stock"[/QUOTE]
Intake in Stock? :confused:
| KC | 08-12-2005 09:14 AM |
[QUOTE=TheWRX]Intake in Stock? :confused:[/QUOTE]
He claimed to be a novice at that.. 1st time auto-xing... and seemed to have a fairly lightly modded car. Like I said earlier... it depends on the region. :)
On a national level.. no not good. but he was also on street tires.. and knowing the competition in ES (which no-one runs in our region) no reason to bump him up. It was him against is son in another RX7 that WAS stock in ES.
It was a decision made at the time, looking at the circumstances.
But seeing the gutted and caged car... just wish he was a little more forthcoming. ;) Not all regions are sticklers for the rules, given certain circumstances.
--kC
He claimed to be a novice at that.. 1st time auto-xing... and seemed to have a fairly lightly modded car. Like I said earlier... it depends on the region. :)
On a national level.. no not good. but he was also on street tires.. and knowing the competition in ES (which no-one runs in our region) no reason to bump him up. It was him against is son in another RX7 that WAS stock in ES.
It was a decision made at the time, looking at the circumstances.
But seeing the gutted and caged car... just wish he was a little more forthcoming. ;) Not all regions are sticklers for the rules, given certain circumstances.
--kC
| leecea | 08-12-2005 09:29 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]leeca.. scroll up... you missed how I initially asked him in the original conversation... "What modifications?"
--kC[/QUOTE]
So much for my attempt at early morning humor :o
--kC[/QUOTE]
So much for my attempt at early morning humor :o
| RRR-K2 | 08-12-2005 10:01 AM |
[QUOTE=leecea]Maybe [U]he[/U] hadn't done those other mods, ... [/QUOTE]
Been there, had that happen to us - still doesn't make it o.k. Especially not when they try it again after being told! :mad:
It's one thing to be new and not know [I]all[/I] the rules ;) It's another thing to out-and-out lie to try and wiggle your way into a class you know you obviuosly don't belong in. :furious:
Matt Kennedy
[URL=http://www.RockyRoadRacing.com][U][COLOR=DarkRed]www.RockyRoadRacing.com[/COLOR][/U][/URL]
Been there, had that happen to us - still doesn't make it o.k. Especially not when they try it again after being told! :mad:
It's one thing to be new and not know [I]all[/I] the rules ;) It's another thing to out-and-out lie to try and wiggle your way into a class you know you obviuosly don't belong in. :furious:
Matt Kennedy
[URL=http://www.RockyRoadRacing.com][U][COLOR=DarkRed]www.RockyRoadRacing.com[/COLOR][/U][/URL]
| Phil Jr. | 08-12-2005 01:21 PM |
so I can change my class on the day of the event when I register?
anyone else think it is a little rediculous that debadging a car bumps you up a class yet a front swaybar doesnt? :lol:
I am not competitive, but I dont want to cheat and be in the wrong class. And I just remembered I removed my intake snorkus.....so I guess STU it is?
anyone else think it is a little rediculous that debadging a car bumps you up a class yet a front swaybar doesnt? :lol:
I am not competitive, but I dont want to cheat and be in the wrong class. And I just remembered I removed my intake snorkus.....so I guess STU it is?
| KC | 08-12-2005 01:39 PM |
Don't focus on the badging... it's the wing that makes the biggest difference between the two... oh.. you also removed the snorkus? :lol: Yeah, do the right thing and proceed to STU.
--kC
--kC
| Phil Jr. | 08-12-2005 01:46 PM |
sigh, I regret doing it now.... :(
edit: so there isnt a class between stock and STU? Anyone wanna explain what Super Stock is? I have looked on the scca site but cant find jack about this stuff.
edit: so there isnt a class between stock and STU? Anyone wanna explain what Super Stock is? I have looked on the scca site but cant find jack about this stuff.
| Jon Bogert | 08-12-2005 02:06 PM |
[QUOTE]sigh, I regret doing it now.... [/QUOTE]Removing your wing, or dealing with the autocross rules-nazis?
You beat me because of your CAI and wing! Waaah, Waaah, I'm calling Mommy!
You beat me because of your CAI and wing! Waaah, Waaah, I'm calling Mommy!
| KC | 08-12-2005 02:13 PM |
[QUOTE=Phil Jr.]sigh, I regret doing it now.... :(
edit: so there isnt a class between stock and STU? Anyone wanna explain what Super Stock is? I have looked on the scca site but cant find jack about this stuff.[/QUOTE]
Jon... if you don't like the rules, send an e-mail to [email][email�protected][/email] and suggest changes, and request they be put out for member comment. In effect, they can be changed if enough people wish them to be. As I said earlier... if the region/competitors says it's OK for him to run AS then go for it. There's rules to be followed.
We want to you show up and have fun. Not following the rules, while *you* might have fun, Jon, running something that's not allowed in the class by the rules, diminishes someone elses fun because they work very hard to ABIDE by the very same rules. Ask yourself Jon... you pout all about rules weenies until you're blue in the face... but would you like to be beat by an illegal car? I have a hunch the answer is no, Jon, you wouldn't like to be beat by an illegal car, if you worked to keep your car within the rules. So stop with the 'rules weenies' bit. It does nothing to futher your cause of bashing the rules or the club.
SS is the top Stock class with Z06s and Elises. In Stock there are 8 classes... SS, AS, BS, CS, DS, ES, FS, GS, HS. The STi, in stock form (following the stock rules), goes into AS.
In ST (Street Touring) there's 4: STS, STS2, STX and STU. The STi goes into STU as its ST class.
--kC
edit: so there isnt a class between stock and STU? Anyone wanna explain what Super Stock is? I have looked on the scca site but cant find jack about this stuff.[/QUOTE]
Jon... if you don't like the rules, send an e-mail to [email][email�protected][/email] and suggest changes, and request they be put out for member comment. In effect, they can be changed if enough people wish them to be. As I said earlier... if the region/competitors says it's OK for him to run AS then go for it. There's rules to be followed.
We want to you show up and have fun. Not following the rules, while *you* might have fun, Jon, running something that's not allowed in the class by the rules, diminishes someone elses fun because they work very hard to ABIDE by the very same rules. Ask yourself Jon... you pout all about rules weenies until you're blue in the face... but would you like to be beat by an illegal car? I have a hunch the answer is no, Jon, you wouldn't like to be beat by an illegal car, if you worked to keep your car within the rules. So stop with the 'rules weenies' bit. It does nothing to futher your cause of bashing the rules or the club.
SS is the top Stock class with Z06s and Elises. In Stock there are 8 classes... SS, AS, BS, CS, DS, ES, FS, GS, HS. The STi, in stock form (following the stock rules), goes into AS.
In ST (Street Touring) there's 4: STS, STS2, STX and STU. The STi goes into STU as its ST class.
--kC
| TheWRX | 08-12-2005 02:14 PM |
[QUOTE=Phil Jr.]Anyone wanna explain what Super Stock is?[/QUOTE]
Just another Stock class, with the same preparation rules as all other Stock classes. You can't run an STi there, AS is the only Stock class you qualify for. SS is for different cars (C5 Corvette, Elise, Porsche GT3, etc.).
Edit: KC beat me to it... :o
Just another Stock class, with the same preparation rules as all other Stock classes. You can't run an STi there, AS is the only Stock class you qualify for. SS is for different cars (C5 Corvette, Elise, Porsche GT3, etc.).
Edit: KC beat me to it... :o
| Jon Bogert | 08-12-2005 02:45 PM |
[QUOTE]Ask yourself Jon... you pout all about rules weenies until you're blue in the face... but would you like to be beat by an illegal car? I have a hunch the answer is no, Jon, you wouldn't like to be beat by an illegal car, if you worked to keep your car within the rules.[/QUOTE]You guys just need a bit of perspective. Look around. It's a parking lot. A guy coming out to have some fun on a Sunday doesn't want or need to worry about the labarynthine nonsense that the top few guys nationally do.
| UCD-WRX | 08-12-2005 02:47 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]Ask yourself Jon... you pout all about rules weenies until you're blue in the face... but would you like to be beat by an illegal car? I have a hunch the answer is no, Jon, you wouldn't like to be beat by an illegal car, if you worked to keep your car within the rules. So stop with the 'rules weenies' bit. It does nothing to futher your cause of bashing the rules or the club.[/QUOTE]
Hey KC,
Well, it's certainly true that people who stick to the rules need everyone to stick to the rules, to make things fun and fair. And to do that, there have to be fixed rules and strict adherence to those rules. It's just an arbitrary line drawn on the parking lot asphalt.
It's an impossibly difficult task to have to make individual judgements on the value of mods, especially when the people making those judgements are not necessarily experts in vehicle dynamics (and many may be complete noobs, despite having decades of auto-x experience).
Jon's comments are particularly funny in this case because Phil's mods are 'non-valuable'. Getting rid of stickers and changing the amount of drag a wing makes (for the worse) certainly won't change your performance by any noticeable amount (probably hundredths of a second...).
But it would be too much overhead to have someone make such a determination, so it only makes sense to have what seems like petty rules.
Besides, Jon, what racing series doesn't have at least some rules that seem arbitrary and petty? :D
UCD-WRX
Shameless plug for my coilover poll: [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=819418[/url]
Hey KC,
Well, it's certainly true that people who stick to the rules need everyone to stick to the rules, to make things fun and fair. And to do that, there have to be fixed rules and strict adherence to those rules. It's just an arbitrary line drawn on the parking lot asphalt.
It's an impossibly difficult task to have to make individual judgements on the value of mods, especially when the people making those judgements are not necessarily experts in vehicle dynamics (and many may be complete noobs, despite having decades of auto-x experience).
Jon's comments are particularly funny in this case because Phil's mods are 'non-valuable'. Getting rid of stickers and changing the amount of drag a wing makes (for the worse) certainly won't change your performance by any noticeable amount (probably hundredths of a second...).
But it would be too much overhead to have someone make such a determination, so it only makes sense to have what seems like petty rules.
Besides, Jon, what racing series doesn't have at least some rules that seem arbitrary and petty? :D
UCD-WRX
Shameless plug for my coilover poll: [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=819418[/url]
| UCD-WRX | 08-12-2005 02:49 PM |
[QUOTE=Jon Bogert]You guys just need a bit of perspective. Look around. It's a parking lot. A guy coming out to have some fun on a Sunday doesn't want or need to worry about the labarynthine nonsense that the top few guys nationally do.[/QUOTE]
Hey Jon,
He absolutely doesn't. And he certainly won't care if he's racing in Stock or in Street Touring or in Yo-yo-Bling-Bling class, since he's not racing for national level points.
If he does care about those points, he can conform to the "petty" rules, right?
UCD-WRX
Shameless plug for my coilover poll: [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=819418[/url]
Hey Jon,
He absolutely doesn't. And he certainly won't care if he's racing in Stock or in Street Touring or in Yo-yo-Bling-Bling class, since he's not racing for national level points.
If he does care about those points, he can conform to the "petty" rules, right?
UCD-WRX
Shameless plug for my coilover poll: [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=819418[/url]
| jamesohoh7 | 08-12-2005 02:55 PM |
[QUOTE=Phil Jr.]so I can change my class on the day of the event when I register?
anyone else think it is a little rediculous that debadging a car bumps you up a class yet a front swaybar doesnt? :lol:
I am not competitive, but I dont want to cheat and be in the wrong class. And I just remembered I removed my intake snorkus.....so I guess STU it is?[/QUOTE]
If your local STU is as poorly attended as the one in my area (like 3 guys on a 'good' weekend), you'll probably do pretty well. The stock classes tend to have very dedicated folks that actually spend the money to spoon the fattest R-compounds on their cars where as the majority of the ST_ guys limp along with cars that are hardly even close to the rules limits.
I just got a new STi and I'm only mildly entertaining thoughts of running AS next year, but I'd probably not fork the $$ for R-comps and would thus languish many seconds off the pace of the local AS hot-shoes (which would happen no matter what tires I have, but I digress... :lol: )
Cliffs: welcome the STU!... you'll probably have more fun at the local level and it'll cost you less. :D
anyone else think it is a little rediculous that debadging a car bumps you up a class yet a front swaybar doesnt? :lol:
I am not competitive, but I dont want to cheat and be in the wrong class. And I just remembered I removed my intake snorkus.....so I guess STU it is?[/QUOTE]
If your local STU is as poorly attended as the one in my area (like 3 guys on a 'good' weekend), you'll probably do pretty well. The stock classes tend to have very dedicated folks that actually spend the money to spoon the fattest R-compounds on their cars where as the majority of the ST_ guys limp along with cars that are hardly even close to the rules limits.
I just got a new STi and I'm only mildly entertaining thoughts of running AS next year, but I'd probably not fork the $$ for R-comps and would thus languish many seconds off the pace of the local AS hot-shoes (which would happen no matter what tires I have, but I digress... :lol: )
Cliffs: welcome the STU!... you'll probably have more fun at the local level and it'll cost you less. :D
| KC | 08-12-2005 03:00 PM |
I guess I'm just done trying to help people here. I'll let n00bs run whatevery they want to run in whatever class they want to. No problem. ****, he's not in my region after all, I'm not competing against him... don't bother me what he run.
You know what.. you guys are funny.
Go back and re-read my 1st post (1st few sentences) and tell me if I'm trying to stick this kid with the rules.
After that, get the sticks out of your asses for thinking I *am* trying to say he's GOT TO follow by the rules.
Should he be in STU? Sure. Is it up to him if he wants to run in AS? Yep. Just don't be surprised if people pull a hissy about it at the event is all I'm warning the kid about. Getting in good with your competitors and seeing if THEY mind (and most likely won't) is the best bet. (Gee 1st post again).
Done.
You know what.. you guys are funny.
Go back and re-read my 1st post (1st few sentences) and tell me if I'm trying to stick this kid with the rules.
After that, get the sticks out of your asses for thinking I *am* trying to say he's GOT TO follow by the rules.
Should he be in STU? Sure. Is it up to him if he wants to run in AS? Yep. Just don't be surprised if people pull a hissy about it at the event is all I'm warning the kid about. Getting in good with your competitors and seeing if THEY mind (and most likely won't) is the best bet. (Gee 1st post again).
Done.
| UCD-WRX | 08-12-2005 03:04 PM |
Hey KC,
I hope that wasn't directed at me... I simply was commenting on your comment to Jon, which is why I quoted that. I also saw that you were quite liberal in how you would class someone with minor mods.
UCD-WRX
Shameless plug for my coilover poll: [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=819418[/url]
I hope that wasn't directed at me... I simply was commenting on your comment to Jon, which is why I quoted that. I also saw that you were quite liberal in how you would class someone with minor mods.
UCD-WRX
Shameless plug for my coilover poll: [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=819418[/url]
| KC | 08-12-2005 03:06 PM |
No, it was directed at Jon. I know where you're coming from. I get pissed off when I hear people complain about rules that make no sense when 99% of the people that do solo do it for fun (including me) where one or two mods on a n00bs car really don't make all that much difference, especially to the guys he's running against. (Especailly whenever a topic about rules comes up, people like Jon come in and start crapping all over the rules saying they're crap).
If he's going to run a full seson next year... make a shot at the right class and follow by the rules.. when you get more than 'this is my 1st or 2nd time auto-xing'.
--kC
If he's going to run a full seson next year... make a shot at the right class and follow by the rules.. when you get more than 'this is my 1st or 2nd time auto-xing'.
--kC
| Jon Bogert | 08-12-2005 03:55 PM |
[QUOTE]I get pissed off when I hear people complain about rules that make no sense[/QUOTE]Why? Some rules, in fact, [i]make no sense[/i].[QUOTE]99% of the people that do solo do it for fun (including me)[/QUOTE]Amen! So why is the system set up for 10% rather than the 90%?[QUOTE]where one or two mods on a n00bs car really don't make all that much difference, especially to the guys he's running against.[/QUOTE]Unless they want to be difficult. If you give some people the means to be an *******, they'll take you up on the offer. The rules (the ones that make no sense) give them the means.
| Student Driver | 08-12-2005 03:56 PM |
I wouldn't think they would complain about the reduction in drag so much as the reduction in weight.
| Jon Bogert | 08-12-2005 03:59 PM |
But anyway, I'm certainly not equipped with enough knowledge to parse an SCCA rulebook. In fact, the only reason I piped in at all was the thought of a nice guy like Phil Jr. being put in a position where he feels like he has to worry about a decorative piece of plastic and some badges just because he wants to go autocross.
| UCD-WRX | 08-12-2005 04:11 PM |
Hey Student, Jon,
Student - how much lighter is the WRX wing than the STi wing? IF that was the concern, could you compensate by bolting a steel plate under the deck lid? It's an arbitrary rule and it has to be followed just because...
Jon - Phil doesn't have to worry, he just has to run against different cars. And as someone pointed out, stock classes are more competitive than ST classes. So he'll have the same amount of fun and he'll do better in ST than in AS.
Besides, even the CEOs of F1 teams think their racing association has arbitrary rules. All racing is about arbitrary rules!
[quote=Martin Whitmarsh (McLaren CEO)]The nature of Formula One teams is that we concentrate on our performance. We are given a set of [b]arbitrary[/b] regulations and we try to optimise the performance of the car. We don't often get to spend time and resource on how we are going to make the show better. We are trying to dosome of that now and I hope in the future we can make a good step forward. But as Geoff said, I don't think people fully anticipated some of the effects of this year's rules and there are some extraordinary clever people in aerodynamics that might have been able to foresee it. The fact that they couldn't leaves me to suppose that it is pretty complex, and therefore to guess a solution would be wrong, we have got to do the work and get proper solutions for the future.[/quote]http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=195353
:)
UCD-WRX
Shameless plug for my coilover poll: [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=819418[/url]
Student - how much lighter is the WRX wing than the STi wing? IF that was the concern, could you compensate by bolting a steel plate under the deck lid? It's an arbitrary rule and it has to be followed just because...
Jon - Phil doesn't have to worry, he just has to run against different cars. And as someone pointed out, stock classes are more competitive than ST classes. So he'll have the same amount of fun and he'll do better in ST than in AS.
Besides, even the CEOs of F1 teams think their racing association has arbitrary rules. All racing is about arbitrary rules!
[quote=Martin Whitmarsh (McLaren CEO)]The nature of Formula One teams is that we concentrate on our performance. We are given a set of [b]arbitrary[/b] regulations and we try to optimise the performance of the car. We don't often get to spend time and resource on how we are going to make the show better. We are trying to dosome of that now and I hope in the future we can make a good step forward. But as Geoff said, I don't think people fully anticipated some of the effects of this year's rules and there are some extraordinary clever people in aerodynamics that might have been able to foresee it. The fact that they couldn't leaves me to suppose that it is pretty complex, and therefore to guess a solution would be wrong, we have got to do the work and get proper solutions for the future.[/quote]http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=195353
:)
UCD-WRX
Shameless plug for my coilover poll: [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=819418[/url]
| leecea | 08-12-2005 04:30 PM |
If you want classes, you have to have rules. Every rule seems dumb to someone and makes perfect sense to someone else.
| Phil Jr. | 08-12-2005 05:18 PM |
ok, didnt mean to start a fight here.
In Jon's defense I dont think his comments were directed at anyone here, but more at the people who complain at events about every little rule and technicality.
In KC's defense, the rules are there for a reason. And to some bending the rules may be different than others. So either follow to rules to the T, or dont participate.
Either way I am not competitive and will just be running STU. And thanks for clearing up the different classes guys. Makes more sense now. I am more interested in going to the track to be honest, but I think autocross will be a good place for me to learn better car control.
thanks again.
In Jon's defense I dont think his comments were directed at anyone here, but more at the people who complain at events about every little rule and technicality.
In KC's defense, the rules are there for a reason. And to some bending the rules may be different than others. So either follow to rules to the T, or dont participate.
Either way I am not competitive and will just be running STU. And thanks for clearing up the different classes guys. Makes more sense now. I am more interested in going to the track to be honest, but I think autocross will be a good place for me to learn better car control.
thanks again.
| CirrusWRX | 08-12-2005 05:34 PM |
...and this is why I prefer NASA-X...
| Student Driver | 08-12-2005 05:55 PM |
UCD, I didn't mean to say it was [i]incredibly[/i] lighter, only that's the kind of response I would expect from someone protesting. ;)
| Phil Jr. | 08-12-2005 07:14 PM |
it is actually at least 10 lbs lighter, but you can get a WRX from the factory without a wing at all, so how is that any different than changing your STi wing out for a WRX wing....factory option blah blah :lol:
| KC | 08-12-2005 07:39 PM |
[QUOTE=CirrusWRX]...and this is why I prefer NASA-X...[/QUOTE]
And as with NASA, any certain mod could put you one point over into the relative bottom of the next higher class... where you'll need more points in the class to be as fast as those running 'just enough' points to stay within that tier... don't think it's that much different.. because it isn't. ;)
--kC
And as with NASA, any certain mod could put you one point over into the relative bottom of the next higher class... where you'll need more points in the class to be as fast as those running 'just enough' points to stay within that tier... don't think it's that much different.. because it isn't. ;)
--kC
| KC | 08-12-2005 07:42 PM |
[QUOTE=Phil Jr.]it is actually at least 10 lbs lighter, but you can get a WRX from the factory without a wing at all, so how is that any different than changing your STi wing out for a WRX wing....factory option blah blah :lol:[/QUOTE]
Because it's not an option on the STi.
Because it's not an option on the STi.
| RRR-K2 | 08-12-2005 07:49 PM |
Duh :-p
�
�
[QUOTE=KC]Because it's not an option on the STi.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and for good reason...just ask Petter what happens when you take off the rear wing ;) ;)
All this class nit-picking stuff is why I stick to Rallying :rolleyes:
Matt Kennedy
[URL=http://www.RockyRoadRacing.com][U][COLOR=DarkRed]www.RockyRoadRacing.com[/COLOR][/U][/URL]
Yeah, and for good reason...just ask Petter what happens when you take off the rear wing ;) ;)
All this class nit-picking stuff is why I stick to Rallying :rolleyes:
Matt Kennedy
[URL=http://www.RockyRoadRacing.com][U][COLOR=DarkRed]www.RockyRoadRacing.com[/COLOR][/U][/URL]
| cfvwtuner | 08-12-2005 07:51 PM |
Wow, all that because of a diference in what piece of plastic is sitting on a trunklid.
If I had a stock STI and this new guy beat me, I wouldnt go screaming that he had a "lighter" wing in the rear. Obviously I wouldnt be driving up to my potential.
There was a discussion about this on neons too. It is illegal to remove the board that covers your spare tire because it is "bolted" down. The wing nut counts as bolting it down. If I lost to the same prepared car and he didnt have the 3 oz piece of cardboard down, I wouldnt be crying.
There is more of a weight difference between a full and empty windshield washer bottle.
I can kinda under stand the removal of trunk carpeting, but mine smells like mold and mildew so it's out.
I still run in STS with a local NON-scca group.
And as a last aside, because of how my wife was treated at the only SCCA autocross event, we will never support SCCA in any way. PM me if you want to know this great story.
If I had a stock STI and this new guy beat me, I wouldnt go screaming that he had a "lighter" wing in the rear. Obviously I wouldnt be driving up to my potential.
There was a discussion about this on neons too. It is illegal to remove the board that covers your spare tire because it is "bolted" down. The wing nut counts as bolting it down. If I lost to the same prepared car and he didnt have the 3 oz piece of cardboard down, I wouldnt be crying.
There is more of a weight difference between a full and empty windshield washer bottle.
I can kinda under stand the removal of trunk carpeting, but mine smells like mold and mildew so it's out.
I still run in STS with a local NON-scca group.
And as a last aside, because of how my wife was treated at the only SCCA autocross event, we will never support SCCA in any way. PM me if you want to know this great story.
| Phil Jr. | 08-12-2005 10:03 PM |
one more question.
Do you think anyone would really get after me if I drove barefoot? I know its a bad habit, buts its the only way I can heel-toe....
Do you think anyone would really get after me if I drove barefoot? I know its a bad habit, buts its the only way I can heel-toe....
| dwx | 08-12-2005 11:25 PM |
You have to wear close-toed shoes, period. We had some guy show up at a local autox a few weeks ago in a STI and was wearing sandals, was told by the safety steward he couldn't wear those while driving on course. So what does he do? He drives barefoot. He also didn't follow the grid at all and just drove up when he wanted to take his first run, when he got back he said it was just a "test run". Wha? Just one of those people that aren't smart enough to grasp much. Needless to say he wore shoes on his other runs...
The chances of you needing to heel-toe at your first autox should be absolutely zero. There are many other things you should be concentrating on.
The chances of you needing to heel-toe at your first autox should be absolutely zero. There are many other things you should be concentrating on.
| MattNJ2.8 | 08-12-2005 11:29 PM |
[QUOTE=cfvwtuner]
And as a last aside, because of how my wife was treated at the only SCCA autocross event, we will never support SCCA in any way. PM me if you want to know this great story.[/QUOTE]
Post it! (or a sanitized version)
And as a last aside, because of how my wife was treated at the only SCCA autocross event, we will never support SCCA in any way. PM me if you want to know this great story.[/QUOTE]
Post it! (or a sanitized version)
| Soul Assasin | 08-13-2005 12:00 AM |
IIRC correctly debadging puts you in SM.
| Phil Jr. | 08-13-2005 12:01 AM |
ah ok, didnt know that.
I need to get some flat shoes.
I need to get some flat shoes.
| Soul Assasin | 08-13-2005 12:12 AM |
[QUOTE=Soul Assasin]IIRC correctly debadging puts you in SM.[/QUOTE]
I retract my previous statement after a look in the rulebook.
Check our 13.2 a
[url]http://www.scca.org/_filelibrary/File/2005SoloRules.pdf[/url]
However I believe that the wing removal would be considered enough wheight for someone to press the issue.
The wing removal is allowed in SM however, not sure about other classes.
And no, you must where closed toe shoes.
I would follow the rules to the letter. You may not think that you have a shot, but wouldn't you feel bad taking points away from someone gunning for a title.
If it makes you feel any better, I run in SM only because of my Tein EDFC. I'd like to run in STX because my only other mods are a CBE and Snorkelectomy.
I'm not at all competitive in SM but for ME its just for fun so ohh well.
Just remember that for you it may be just for fun, but for others its serious business.
Just my .02. :D
I retract my previous statement after a look in the rulebook.
Check our 13.2 a
[url]http://www.scca.org/_filelibrary/File/2005SoloRules.pdf[/url]
However I believe that the wing removal would be considered enough wheight for someone to press the issue.
The wing removal is allowed in SM however, not sure about other classes.
And no, you must where closed toe shoes.
I would follow the rules to the letter. You may not think that you have a shot, but wouldn't you feel bad taking points away from someone gunning for a title.
If it makes you feel any better, I run in SM only because of my Tein EDFC. I'd like to run in STX because my only other mods are a CBE and Snorkelectomy.
I'm not at all competitive in SM but for ME its just for fun so ohh well.
Just remember that for you it may be just for fun, but for others its serious business.
Just my .02. :D
| Warp3 | 08-13-2005 12:25 AM |
[QUOTE=Soul Assasin]The wing removal is allowed in SM however, not sure about other classes.[/quote]
I'm pretty sure this is covered by the "body kit" allowance in ST (or there may be an actual allowance for changing wings/spoilers, I don't recall). Regardless, you are correct that REMOVING a wing is technically a ticket straight to Street Modified, however, the poster was asking about changing wings, not removing wings.
[quote]If it makes you feel any better, I run in SM only because of my Tein EDFC. I'd like to run in STX because my only other mods are a CBE and Snorkelectomy. [/QUOTE]
Uhhh...I thought the "struts cannot be capable of being adjusted while the car is in motion" rule was in SM as well? Regardless, if you remove the control panel while you autocross, I don't see why you wouldn't be STX legal? :confused:
Shane -- SM 729
I'm pretty sure this is covered by the "body kit" allowance in ST (or there may be an actual allowance for changing wings/spoilers, I don't recall). Regardless, you are correct that REMOVING a wing is technically a ticket straight to Street Modified, however, the poster was asking about changing wings, not removing wings.
[quote]If it makes you feel any better, I run in SM only because of my Tein EDFC. I'd like to run in STX because my only other mods are a CBE and Snorkelectomy. [/QUOTE]
Uhhh...I thought the "struts cannot be capable of being adjusted while the car is in motion" rule was in SM as well? Regardless, if you remove the control panel while you autocross, I don't see why you wouldn't be STX legal? :confused:
Shane -- SM 729
| Soul Assasin | 08-13-2005 12:36 AM |
[QUOTE=Warp3]I'm pretty sure this is covered by the "body kit" allowance in ST (or there may be an actual allowance for changing wings/spoilers, I don't recall). Regardless, you are correct that REMOVING a wing is technically a ticket straight to Street Modified, however, the poster was asking about changing wings, not removing wings.
Uhhh...I thought the "struts cannot be capable of being adjusted while the car is in motion" rule was in SM as well? Regardless, if you remove the control panel while you autocross, I don't see why you wouldn't be STX legal? :confused:
Shane -- SM 729[/QUOTE]
Point taken on the wing.
Suspension is unrestricted in SM check out 16.1E
[url]http://www.scca.org/_filelibrary/File/2005SoloRules.pdf[/url]
I know that I could remove the controller. However Tein does not recomend it, something about the stepper motors not holding in the position selected w/o current. Plus the way I have it mounted it would just be a PITA.
Like I said, for me its just for fun so I don't mind running with the big boys.
Besides, hopefully being surrounded by cars that are more modded will help me convince the wife that I should break-out the Mastercard and catch up with them. :lol: :lol:
It is a stupid rule though. Its not like I'm smart/fast enough to have different preset damping levels for different sections of a course. I guess some people might be though. Oh well. :banana:
Uhhh...I thought the "struts cannot be capable of being adjusted while the car is in motion" rule was in SM as well? Regardless, if you remove the control panel while you autocross, I don't see why you wouldn't be STX legal? :confused:
Shane -- SM 729[/QUOTE]
Point taken on the wing.
Suspension is unrestricted in SM check out 16.1E
[url]http://www.scca.org/_filelibrary/File/2005SoloRules.pdf[/url]
I know that I could remove the controller. However Tein does not recomend it, something about the stepper motors not holding in the position selected w/o current. Plus the way I have it mounted it would just be a PITA.
Like I said, for me its just for fun so I don't mind running with the big boys.
Besides, hopefully being surrounded by cars that are more modded will help me convince the wife that I should break-out the Mastercard and catch up with them. :lol: :lol:
It is a stupid rule though. Its not like I'm smart/fast enough to have different preset damping levels for different sections of a course. I guess some people might be though. Oh well. :banana:
| moodyracing | 08-14-2005 06:31 PM |
hey, if debadging changes your class, what about clear corners? those up the hp equally :devil:
| CirrusWRX | 08-15-2005 11:51 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]And as with NASA, any certain mod could put you one point over into the relative bottom of the next higher class... where you'll need more points in the class to be as fast as those running 'just enough' points to stay within that tier... don't think it's that much different.. because it isn't. ;)
--kC[/QUOTE]
I disagree because it's easy for an idiot like me to read TWO PAGES of large font, very simple to understand rules and use my terrible mathematical skillz and figure out where my car should be classed unlike the "Tome of Confusion" that is the SCCA rule book. I also enjoy getting 8 runs.
(I'm also biased and bitching because I have not had great experiences at SCCA events, whereas it's been nothing but pleasure with NASA) ;)
--kC[/QUOTE]
I disagree because it's easy for an idiot like me to read TWO PAGES of large font, very simple to understand rules and use my terrible mathematical skillz and figure out where my car should be classed unlike the "Tome of Confusion" that is the SCCA rule book. I also enjoy getting 8 runs.
(I'm also biased and bitching because I have not had great experiences at SCCA events, whereas it's been nothing but pleasure with NASA) ;)
| WRX-ECE | 08-15-2005 05:01 PM |
I'll chime in since I was at the event and worked both registration and afternoon Tech.
No one in Philly would care about the mods in AS until you got good, or you showed you want to compete for the season for points. We are a fairly competitive region with good drivers. When you are new and learning, we'll let you slide on things that have little "real" effect. When you start competing for points, trophies and PAX wins then we will usually ask you to come more in line with the rules.
And we've asked people in the past to not come back when they refused to change classes or stop "cheating"
Specifically, I would have let you run in AS if you had asked me at Reg, I know the AS competitors and know they wouldn't care about a novice running in class with those mods.
Then there are others, like the WRX in STX with a carbon hood, the biggest hood scoop I've EVER seen (like 6" high), a BOV etc etc. He had pre-made STX numbers and all. He obviously didn't read the rules, or care about them. And certainly didn't ask if his car was STX legal. If he had competed with the others in the top of STX I would have dropped him to SM, but as it went, he wasn't competing for top spot so who cares.
We try to be as friendly to novices as we can, since they are what will keep our region going into the future. No one is going to yell at you or be an ass about something like that, and if they are, bring it up to one of the region chiefs, myself included and we will take care of it (them).
As far as running NASA-X vs. SCCA, well I ran one NASA event and would never go back. For reasons far less trivial then classification rules.h
Jeremy
No one in Philly would care about the mods in AS until you got good, or you showed you want to compete for the season for points. We are a fairly competitive region with good drivers. When you are new and learning, we'll let you slide on things that have little "real" effect. When you start competing for points, trophies and PAX wins then we will usually ask you to come more in line with the rules.
And we've asked people in the past to not come back when they refused to change classes or stop "cheating"
Specifically, I would have let you run in AS if you had asked me at Reg, I know the AS competitors and know they wouldn't care about a novice running in class with those mods.
Then there are others, like the WRX in STX with a carbon hood, the biggest hood scoop I've EVER seen (like 6" high), a BOV etc etc. He had pre-made STX numbers and all. He obviously didn't read the rules, or care about them. And certainly didn't ask if his car was STX legal. If he had competed with the others in the top of STX I would have dropped him to SM, but as it went, he wasn't competing for top spot so who cares.
We try to be as friendly to novices as we can, since they are what will keep our region going into the future. No one is going to yell at you or be an ass about something like that, and if they are, bring it up to one of the region chiefs, myself included and we will take care of it (them).
As far as running NASA-X vs. SCCA, well I ran one NASA event and would never go back. For reasons far less trivial then classification rules.h
Jeremy
| WRX-ECE | 08-15-2005 05:11 PM |
Off topic but it was mentioned:
The wing on the STi is not pointless at all. I was talking to one of our regions drivers Sunday who works at SOA about just this. SOA was trying to get the wing delete option for the USDM STi and FHI engineering refused...food for thought since I'm sure that SOA could make a pretty good buiseness argument for allowing it.
The wing on the STi is not pointless at all. I was talking to one of our regions drivers Sunday who works at SOA about just this. SOA was trying to get the wing delete option for the USDM STi and FHI engineering refused...food for thought since I'm sure that SOA could make a pretty good buiseness argument for allowing it.
| rankink | 08-15-2005 05:59 PM |
[QUOTE=WRX-ECE]Off topic but it was mentioned:
The wing on the STi is not pointless at all. I was talking to one of our regions drivers Sunday who works at SOA about just this. SOA was trying to get the wing delete option for the USDM STi and FHI engineering refused...food for thought since I'm sure that SOA could make a pretty good buiseness argument for allowing it.[/QUOTE]
It is not pointless above 100 mph or so, but on most autocross courses it is as you don't get to the speeds where it will generate downforce. I still wish we had a wing delete option though.
The wing on the STi is not pointless at all. I was talking to one of our regions drivers Sunday who works at SOA about just this. SOA was trying to get the wing delete option for the USDM STi and FHI engineering refused...food for thought since I'm sure that SOA could make a pretty good buiseness argument for allowing it.[/QUOTE]
It is not pointless above 100 mph or so, but on most autocross courses it is as you don't get to the speeds where it will generate downforce. I still wish we had a wing delete option though.
| UCD-WRX | 08-15-2005 06:05 PM |
[QUOTE=WRX-ECE]Off topic but it was mentioned:
The wing on the STi is not pointless at all. I was talking to one of our regions drivers Sunday who works at SOA about just this. SOA was trying to get the wing delete option for the USDM STi and FHI engineering refused...food for thought since I'm sure that SOA could make a pretty good buiseness argument for allowing it.[/QUOTE]
Hey WRX-ECE,
Well... the fact that FHI refused to offer a wing delete option could also mean that the wing is 100% functional as a branding image device. The STi in the US is sold solely as a rally-bred monster of a performer that has the total rally car (or some would say boy-racer) look. Without the wing, you don't have "an STi" in marketing terms...
Well, that's certain a plausible explanation for why SOA can't get a wing delete.
But I also have heard that the wing changes the rear of the sedan from generating some 70-100 pounds of lift at 100 mph to generating 0-50 pounds of downforce. That's functional, if irrelevant to autocross (where, even if you do get those speeds, the wing is only creating drag, because you aren't cornering at those speeds in the auto-x).
UCD-WRX
Shameless plug for my coilover poll: [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=819418[/url]
The wing on the STi is not pointless at all. I was talking to one of our regions drivers Sunday who works at SOA about just this. SOA was trying to get the wing delete option for the USDM STi and FHI engineering refused...food for thought since I'm sure that SOA could make a pretty good buiseness argument for allowing it.[/QUOTE]
Hey WRX-ECE,
Well... the fact that FHI refused to offer a wing delete option could also mean that the wing is 100% functional as a branding image device. The STi in the US is sold solely as a rally-bred monster of a performer that has the total rally car (or some would say boy-racer) look. Without the wing, you don't have "an STi" in marketing terms...
Well, that's certain a plausible explanation for why SOA can't get a wing delete.
But I also have heard that the wing changes the rear of the sedan from generating some 70-100 pounds of lift at 100 mph to generating 0-50 pounds of downforce. That's functional, if irrelevant to autocross (where, even if you do get those speeds, the wing is only creating drag, because you aren't cornering at those speeds in the auto-x).
UCD-WRX
Shameless plug for my coilover poll: [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=819418[/url]
| Phil Jr. | 08-15-2005 06:12 PM |
Well I must say the event at Boeing this sunday was OUTSTANDING. It was organized very well and I think the whole event ran very smooth. Without a doubt I will be back when possible. Everyone there was extremely friendly and helpful, which I appreciate.
and yea, that one WRX with the CF hood was funny. I didnt know they make scoops that high...what fell off his car on the 1st run? :lol:
About the wing though, the spec-c has a regular WRX wing, so thats good enough for me.
and yea, that one WRX with the CF hood was funny. I didnt know they make scoops that high...what fell off his car on the 1st run? :lol:
About the wing though, the spec-c has a regular WRX wing, so thats good enough for me.
| Corey | 08-16-2005 07:56 AM |
Geez... I didn't even know you were talking about coming to one of OUR events (Philly). I need to read more closely. I would have just told you not to worry about it for now.
See how easy that was? Nobody beotching about unfair mods, etc... that has been my experience with every single SCCA event that I was ever at. I'd venture a guess that I've been to more than the people talking trash on this board.
Glad you had fun at Boeing... it's a tough site to build a course on, but we make the best of it.
Corey #89 STS
See how easy that was? Nobody beotching about unfair mods, etc... that has been my experience with every single SCCA event that I was ever at. I'd venture a guess that I've been to more than the people talking trash on this board.
Glad you had fun at Boeing... it's a tough site to build a course on, but we make the best of it.
Corey #89 STS
| WRX-ECE | 08-16-2005 09:46 AM |
[QUOTE=UCD-WRX]Hey WRX-ECE,
Well... the fact that FHI refused to offer a wing delete option could also mean that the wing is 100% functional as a branding image device. The STi in the US is sold solely as a rally-bred monster of a performer that has the total rally car (or some would say boy-racer) look. Without the wing, you don't have "an STi" in marketing terms...
[/QUOTE]
Agreed, at auto-x speed the wing is not in it's functional range.
As I said, I was told it was engineering in Japan that refused. SOA (who is in charge of branding for the US) probably wouldn't ask for a production change to an automobile without sound buiseness reasons.
With the "boy racer" STi they lose out on $5 - $10K of sale price (over the regular WRX) for each 25+ y/o who doesn't want to look like the 16 y/o down the street but still wants a performance sedan. I know my next Subaur won't be an STi for that reason. At 27 I'm past that stage, my next new Subaru will be a Legacy GT, or another WRX.
Well... the fact that FHI refused to offer a wing delete option could also mean that the wing is 100% functional as a branding image device. The STi in the US is sold solely as a rally-bred monster of a performer that has the total rally car (or some would say boy-racer) look. Without the wing, you don't have "an STi" in marketing terms...
[/QUOTE]
Agreed, at auto-x speed the wing is not in it's functional range.
As I said, I was told it was engineering in Japan that refused. SOA (who is in charge of branding for the US) probably wouldn't ask for a production change to an automobile without sound buiseness reasons.
With the "boy racer" STi they lose out on $5 - $10K of sale price (over the regular WRX) for each 25+ y/o who doesn't want to look like the 16 y/o down the street but still wants a performance sedan. I know my next Subaur won't be an STi for that reason. At 27 I'm past that stage, my next new Subaru will be a Legacy GT, or another WRX.
| dowroa | 08-16-2005 12:49 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]The wing will throw you into another class... unless of course the people you run against are cool with it in AS. I would go and find someone at the event when you register that helps with the decisions (novice chair or event chair) and ask them what they think.
Being a novice, it's not that big of a deal.... and also may not be to your competitors.
You can get away with more stuff locally if the people are cool... its when you get into divisional or national racing are the rules really enforced.
But don't be surprised if you get put into STU, where the car would be classed *if* it mattered to anyone.
If you plan on doing a full season in stock next year, I'd start looking for the picnic bench to put back on the car. ;)
Here's a little anecdote that happened recently:
We had someone come in to registration a N/A RX-7 few weeks ago when I was doing reg:
"What class would I be in with my car"
"What have you done to the car".
"It's mostly stock."
"What modifications?"
"Shocks, intake"
"Ok with just those things, you'd be in E-Stock"
Later, he's in the same rungroup I'm in...
Stripped interior, one seat, relocated battery, cage....
I brought it to his attention (with last years solo chair next to me who just happened to also be in the same run group) he needs to be in a differet class (like prepared) because that certainly isn't what we call a 'stock' car. :lol:
He didn't realize I was the same person from reg (changed shirt and hat) and he said to the old solo chair that he said what he had at registration.... to which Chris looked at me... and I said "I asked you what you had done to the car as far as modifications." (It the same line and same way I ask everyone).
There's no stopping someone that outright lies. Being honest at reg, and finding out beforehand would save some aggrivation down the road. :)
--kC[/QUOTE]
Uh... no offense here or to the very intertaining banter within, but wouldn't he want to run STU anyway? PAX STU < PAX AS. If you care about PAX, that would seem like a no-brainer to me, especially if you are running street tires. Heck, I took an AS STi last year and ran STU just because it gave me a better PAX.
If the discussion wants to remain on classing your car ethically, and wanting to run AS; please continue your present discussion.
Thanks!
- dow
Being a novice, it's not that big of a deal.... and also may not be to your competitors.
You can get away with more stuff locally if the people are cool... its when you get into divisional or national racing are the rules really enforced.
But don't be surprised if you get put into STU, where the car would be classed *if* it mattered to anyone.
If you plan on doing a full season in stock next year, I'd start looking for the picnic bench to put back on the car. ;)
Here's a little anecdote that happened recently:
We had someone come in to registration a N/A RX-7 few weeks ago when I was doing reg:
"What class would I be in with my car"
"What have you done to the car".
"It's mostly stock."
"What modifications?"
"Shocks, intake"
"Ok with just those things, you'd be in E-Stock"
Later, he's in the same rungroup I'm in...
Stripped interior, one seat, relocated battery, cage....
I brought it to his attention (with last years solo chair next to me who just happened to also be in the same run group) he needs to be in a differet class (like prepared) because that certainly isn't what we call a 'stock' car. :lol:
He didn't realize I was the same person from reg (changed shirt and hat) and he said to the old solo chair that he said what he had at registration.... to which Chris looked at me... and I said "I asked you what you had done to the car as far as modifications." (It the same line and same way I ask everyone).
There's no stopping someone that outright lies. Being honest at reg, and finding out beforehand would save some aggrivation down the road. :)
--kC[/QUOTE]
Uh... no offense here or to the very intertaining banter within, but wouldn't he want to run STU anyway? PAX STU < PAX AS. If you care about PAX, that would seem like a no-brainer to me, especially if you are running street tires. Heck, I took an AS STi last year and ran STU just because it gave me a better PAX.
If the discussion wants to remain on classing your car ethically, and wanting to run AS; please continue your present discussion.
Thanks!
- dow
| jcroy66 | 08-16-2005 01:06 PM |
[QUOTE=dowroa]Uh... no offense here or to the very intertaining banter within, but wouldn't he want to run STU anyway? PAX STU < PAX AS. If you care about PAX, that would seem like a no-brainer to me, especially if you are running street tires. Heck, I took an AS STi last year and ran STU just because it gave me a better PAX.[/QUOTE]If that was your objective, it was a silly move.
2004 PAX numbers:
AS 0.828
STU 0.827
ESP 0.824
So if a good PAX standing was your only consideration, you should have bumped yourself all the way to ESP. :lol:
2004 PAX numbers:
AS 0.828
STU 0.827
ESP 0.824
So if a good PAX standing was your only consideration, you should have bumped yourself all the way to ESP. :lol:
| dowroa | 08-16-2005 01:15 PM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66]If that was your objective, it was a silly move.
2004 PAX numbers:
AS 0.828
STU 0.827
ESP 0.824
So if a good PAX standing was your only consideration, you should have bumped yourself all the way to ESP. :lol:[/QUOTE]
We had too many R-comp guys locally. :)
My objective was also a class I could win and get FTST ;)
We WERE in ESP, but then that wasnt a challenge, and we dropped back to STU to compete with eachother ;)
- dow
Ps. :alien:
2005 PAX
STU 0.818
AS 0.828
ESP 0.826
2004 PAX numbers:
AS 0.828
STU 0.827
ESP 0.824
So if a good PAX standing was your only consideration, you should have bumped yourself all the way to ESP. :lol:[/QUOTE]
We had too many R-comp guys locally. :)
My objective was also a class I could win and get FTST ;)
We WERE in ESP, but then that wasnt a challenge, and we dropped back to STU to compete with eachother ;)
- dow
Ps. :alien:
2005 PAX
STU 0.818
AS 0.828
ESP 0.826
| jcroy66 | 08-16-2005 01:23 PM |
Yeah, I had noticed that 2005's numbers are more closely aligned with reality than 2004's. But since you'd said "last year", I used 2004's.
| dowroa | 08-16-2005 01:26 PM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66]Yeah, I had noticed that 2005's numbers are more closely aligned with reality than 2004's. But since you'd said "last year", I used 2004's.[/QUOTE]
Last Tangent for me:
Yea, last year since I had just bought the car in Oct, and I was on Street Tires. No biggie. I just wanted some CAM-bar!
On with this thread!!!
- dow
Last Tangent for me:
Yea, last year since I had just bought the car in Oct, and I was on Street Tires. No biggie. I just wanted some CAM-bar!
On with this thread!!!
- dow
| wvallwheeldrive | 08-16-2005 01:33 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]Because it's not an option on the STi.[/QUOTE]
you can get the STi withou a wing from the factory I've seen it done
you can get the STi withou a wing from the factory I've seen it done
| dowroa | 08-16-2005 01:58 PM |
[QUOTE=wvallwheeldrive]you can get the STi withou a wing from the factory I've seen it done[/QUOTE]
Ha! Where?
The dealer removing it from the car is NOT the same as it coming from SOA without the wing.
Please, if you have information about SOA offering wingless STis, let me know your source as I would LOVE to lose that 20lbs in the rear.
- dow
Ha! Where?
The dealer removing it from the car is NOT the same as it coming from SOA without the wing.
Please, if you have information about SOA offering wingless STis, let me know your source as I would LOVE to lose that 20lbs in the rear.
- dow
| CirrusWRX | 08-16-2005 02:45 PM |
[QUOTE=dowroa]Ha! Where?
The dealer removing it from the car is NOT the same as it coming from SOA without the wing.
Please, if you have information about SOA offering wingless STis, let me know your source as I would LOVE to lose that 20lbs in the rear.
- dow[/QUOTE]
You are correct, there is no source and has never been ANY proof of being a "factory" option. Some dealers will remove the wing, sometimes for free, sometimes for less, SOMETIMES for more, because all they'll do is swap it with a wingless or standard wing WRX trunklid, swap the badges and charge some WRX owner more $$$ to have a WRX with an "STi wing option" (again, not factory.)
Some will argue that you could get leather on 2002 WRX's - also completely false, and yet some idiot will counter with pictures of a brand new WRX in the showroom with leather and heated seats. Obviously this idiot isn't lying in the sense that you can buy a brand new WRX with heated seats and leather, but the idiot doesn't understand that the dealership paid some upholstry person to do the interior- it had NOTHING to do with Subaru or SoA.
I'm willing to bet you could get a "pimp my ride" STi with bling and a dozen LCD's and a soda fountain in the trunk and somebody will come on here claiming it's a very rare "factory option." :rolleyes:
The dealer removing it from the car is NOT the same as it coming from SOA without the wing.
Please, if you have information about SOA offering wingless STis, let me know your source as I would LOVE to lose that 20lbs in the rear.
- dow[/QUOTE]
You are correct, there is no source and has never been ANY proof of being a "factory" option. Some dealers will remove the wing, sometimes for free, sometimes for less, SOMETIMES for more, because all they'll do is swap it with a wingless or standard wing WRX trunklid, swap the badges and charge some WRX owner more $$$ to have a WRX with an "STi wing option" (again, not factory.)
Some will argue that you could get leather on 2002 WRX's - also completely false, and yet some idiot will counter with pictures of a brand new WRX in the showroom with leather and heated seats. Obviously this idiot isn't lying in the sense that you can buy a brand new WRX with heated seats and leather, but the idiot doesn't understand that the dealership paid some upholstry person to do the interior- it had NOTHING to do with Subaru or SoA.
I'm willing to bet you could get a "pimp my ride" STi with bling and a dozen LCD's and a soda fountain in the trunk and somebody will come on here claiming it's a very rare "factory option." :rolleyes:
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