| chimchimm5 | 08-14-2006 03:13 AM |
My first autox... I keep getting lost!
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This was my very first autox event. I got there early and walked the track 3 times, each time visualizing what I'd be doing in the car and what lines I wanted to take. Then it was all drivers meeting, and I worked first (entering time card info on the standings sheets). I tried watching a few people run, but it was hard with the job I had. By the time it was my turn to grid up and run, I had COMPLETELY forgotten the track. I should have had the course map handy will sitting in the car but the newbie didn't think of that. So I ran the course and practically had to react to everything. Then on top of that, I was getting lost in the sea of cones and even though I was trying to look ahead, I would get lost and had to figure out where I was. This killed my lines.
And then on top of that, this was my first time taking my car to the limit, so I was discovering what that was too.
I found I was having a hard time looking ahead far enough, but the sea of cones would just get me lost. :(
All four of my runs were within .4 seconds of each other, and my second run was the best, then 4th, then 1st, then 3rd. Wierd. I knew my stock car was understeering like mad and the tire showed I was rolling over to the sidewall so i pumped in 2 psi more air to 42 psi front. For the 4 fun runs, this clearly was an improvement, and my times kept getting better, eventually improving almost 2.5 seconds over my worst lap of the day.
Maybe I was just too newbie nervous to remember everything?
Pic of me rolling over my sidewall and not coming anywhere near using up the track like I should be.
[IMG]http://i8.tinypic.com/24mxlr9.jpg[/IMG]
And then on top of that, this was my first time taking my car to the limit, so I was discovering what that was too.
I found I was having a hard time looking ahead far enough, but the sea of cones would just get me lost. :(
All four of my runs were within .4 seconds of each other, and my second run was the best, then 4th, then 1st, then 3rd. Wierd. I knew my stock car was understeering like mad and the tire showed I was rolling over to the sidewall so i pumped in 2 psi more air to 42 psi front. For the 4 fun runs, this clearly was an improvement, and my times kept getting better, eventually improving almost 2.5 seconds over my worst lap of the day.
Maybe I was just too newbie nervous to remember everything?
Pic of me rolling over my sidewall and not coming anywhere near using up the track like I should be.
[IMG]http://i8.tinypic.com/24mxlr9.jpg[/IMG]
| afpdl | 08-14-2006 04:42 AM |
Thats how everyones first time goes. Just get some more seat time and ride with as many people as you can if you region allows it. It takes a couple of events to stop getting lost but it will come to you.
| KC | 08-14-2006 08:02 AM |
Do they have instructors that can ride along? (Did you even know to ask?) ;)
There'll be plenty more auto-xes that you can get seat time on, and a few more runs that day. There's nothing wrong with taking the 1st run slow. I mean S-L-O-W 20-30 mph that you can find the course. Just tell the starter to hold the next car for a little while longer because you're a novice and will be going slow.
Over time will come the remembering part... but ask for an instructor next time on your 1st run before you are called to the line.
Now to go over some finer points...
[QUOTE]By the time it was my turn to grid up and run, I had COMPLETELY forgotten the track. I should have had the course map handy will sitting in the car but the newbie didn't think of that. [/QUOTE]
When you walked the course... did you do it alone or with people talking along the way (even if it was with people discussing elements of the course)? It's good to take a solo walk, no talking, so *you* run the line and *you* know the course. After a while (like a year or so) you'll be able to walk the course and talk at the same time and remember it. I do one (sometimes two) walk an event now.
After you walk through the finish on your 1st walk through, pull to the side and stop. Visualize the course. Try to see if you can walk through it in your head right then and there. If you can't, walk it again and repeat. You need a good idea of it.
After you get more seat time after a while, you'll be able to realize that you don't need to memorize the whole course... just the parts that are difficult. Right now, they're ALL difficult to the novice, and that's understandable. Example... you don't have to memorize turn-by-turn for a slalom... just the entrance and the exit. The middle takes care of itself.
[QUOTE]So I ran the course and practically had to react to everything. Then on top of that, I was getting lost in the sea of cones and even though I was trying to look ahead, I would get lost and had to figure out where I was. This killed my lines.[/QUOTE]
*waves hand* There are no lines. These are not the lines you are looking for. *waves hand*
Knowing to look ahead is a great thing. Getting it down is harder. I hear the same thing when I instruct, "but I'm looking ahead!". I ask them when they're on course where's they're looking... "next cones", "next gate". And yet, they hardly turn their head. That's not looking far enough ahead. You need to look 2-3 gates ahead, or end of the slalom as you enter, and in some cases, out your side window. This, again, comes with seat time. You'll get it, just keep practicing.
[KCs Secret]And this is where on the coursewalk, you're also looking 2-3 gates ahead and not at the ones you're walking by. You want to pick up not only where you'll be *driving* but also where you're going to be *looking* when you're there.[/KCs Secret] (Ok, it's not just my secret, but a secret that most fast people implement)
[QUOTE]And then on top of that, this was my first time taking my car to the limit, so I was discovering what that was too. I found I was having a hard time looking ahead far enough, but the sea of cones would just get me lost.[/QUOTE] Sure, you were swept in by everyone saying 'push the limits in a safe environment', right? But you didn't hear anyone say, "take the 1st few runs easy... there'll be more events where you can push the limits. The most important thing for you to learn now is how to read the course" did you? You don't mention instructors, so I'm gonna say no, you didn't hear anyone saying that. It's important. So I'll say it again... for the novice, take the 1st run or two really easy and slow. Find the course. You'll have many more events that you can attend where you'll be able to really push the limits.
[QUOTE]All four of my runs were within .4 seconds of each other, and my second run was the best, then 4th, then 1st, then 3rd. Wierd.[/QUOTE] Not weird. At all. Really. The only things, at this stage in the game, you should be paying attention to is the course... not your times. (Have you gotten that part yet?) ;)
[QUOTE] I knew my stock car was understeering like mad and the tire showed I was rolling over to the sidewall so i pumped in 2 psi more air to 42 psi front.[/QUOTE]It wasn't only because of air you were understeering, it was your driving *making* it understeer. Turning the wheel too fast while on the brakes entering a corner. Slow in, fast out. Slow down before you inititiate turn-in. :)
[QUOTE]For the 4 fun runs, this clearly was an improvement, and my times kept getting better, eventually improving almost 2.5 seconds over my worst lap of the day.[/QUOTE] Did you have anyone run with you then? Did you stay on course?
[QUOTE]Maybe I was just too newbie nervous to remember everything?[/QUOTE]Nerves plays a part, sure. But the biggest thing a region can do for a novice is help them... but the novice has to be able to, and want to, ask for help. Without that, without someone asking for an instructor at the event, help is hardly offered when not asked for. :)
Just keep at it. Ask to ride in instructors cars and ask for instructors to run with you. I say instructors and not friends. Why? Nothing against your friends, but the instructors are the ones that are faster and can, for the most part, not teach you bad habits. Your friends may show you the course, but still may show you the wrong way to do things.
--kC
There'll be plenty more auto-xes that you can get seat time on, and a few more runs that day. There's nothing wrong with taking the 1st run slow. I mean S-L-O-W 20-30 mph that you can find the course. Just tell the starter to hold the next car for a little while longer because you're a novice and will be going slow.
Over time will come the remembering part... but ask for an instructor next time on your 1st run before you are called to the line.
Now to go over some finer points...
[QUOTE]By the time it was my turn to grid up and run, I had COMPLETELY forgotten the track. I should have had the course map handy will sitting in the car but the newbie didn't think of that. [/QUOTE]
When you walked the course... did you do it alone or with people talking along the way (even if it was with people discussing elements of the course)? It's good to take a solo walk, no talking, so *you* run the line and *you* know the course. After a while (like a year or so) you'll be able to walk the course and talk at the same time and remember it. I do one (sometimes two) walk an event now.
After you walk through the finish on your 1st walk through, pull to the side and stop. Visualize the course. Try to see if you can walk through it in your head right then and there. If you can't, walk it again and repeat. You need a good idea of it.
After you get more seat time after a while, you'll be able to realize that you don't need to memorize the whole course... just the parts that are difficult. Right now, they're ALL difficult to the novice, and that's understandable. Example... you don't have to memorize turn-by-turn for a slalom... just the entrance and the exit. The middle takes care of itself.
[QUOTE]So I ran the course and practically had to react to everything. Then on top of that, I was getting lost in the sea of cones and even though I was trying to look ahead, I would get lost and had to figure out where I was. This killed my lines.[/QUOTE]
*waves hand* There are no lines. These are not the lines you are looking for. *waves hand*
Knowing to look ahead is a great thing. Getting it down is harder. I hear the same thing when I instruct, "but I'm looking ahead!". I ask them when they're on course where's they're looking... "next cones", "next gate". And yet, they hardly turn their head. That's not looking far enough ahead. You need to look 2-3 gates ahead, or end of the slalom as you enter, and in some cases, out your side window. This, again, comes with seat time. You'll get it, just keep practicing.
[KCs Secret]And this is where on the coursewalk, you're also looking 2-3 gates ahead and not at the ones you're walking by. You want to pick up not only where you'll be *driving* but also where you're going to be *looking* when you're there.[/KCs Secret] (Ok, it's not just my secret, but a secret that most fast people implement)
[QUOTE]And then on top of that, this was my first time taking my car to the limit, so I was discovering what that was too. I found I was having a hard time looking ahead far enough, but the sea of cones would just get me lost.[/QUOTE] Sure, you were swept in by everyone saying 'push the limits in a safe environment', right? But you didn't hear anyone say, "take the 1st few runs easy... there'll be more events where you can push the limits. The most important thing for you to learn now is how to read the course" did you? You don't mention instructors, so I'm gonna say no, you didn't hear anyone saying that. It's important. So I'll say it again... for the novice, take the 1st run or two really easy and slow. Find the course. You'll have many more events that you can attend where you'll be able to really push the limits.
[QUOTE]All four of my runs were within .4 seconds of each other, and my second run was the best, then 4th, then 1st, then 3rd. Wierd.[/QUOTE] Not weird. At all. Really. The only things, at this stage in the game, you should be paying attention to is the course... not your times. (Have you gotten that part yet?) ;)
[QUOTE] I knew my stock car was understeering like mad and the tire showed I was rolling over to the sidewall so i pumped in 2 psi more air to 42 psi front.[/QUOTE]It wasn't only because of air you were understeering, it was your driving *making* it understeer. Turning the wheel too fast while on the brakes entering a corner. Slow in, fast out. Slow down before you inititiate turn-in. :)
[QUOTE]For the 4 fun runs, this clearly was an improvement, and my times kept getting better, eventually improving almost 2.5 seconds over my worst lap of the day.[/QUOTE] Did you have anyone run with you then? Did you stay on course?
[QUOTE]Maybe I was just too newbie nervous to remember everything?[/QUOTE]Nerves plays a part, sure. But the biggest thing a region can do for a novice is help them... but the novice has to be able to, and want to, ask for help. Without that, without someone asking for an instructor at the event, help is hardly offered when not asked for. :)
Just keep at it. Ask to ride in instructors cars and ask for instructors to run with you. I say instructors and not friends. Why? Nothing against your friends, but the instructors are the ones that are faster and can, for the most part, not teach you bad habits. Your friends may show you the course, but still may show you the wrong way to do things.
--kC
| TubeDriver | 08-14-2006 10:21 AM |
If you can't stay on course: slow down! ;)
| Leadfoot77 | 08-14-2006 10:46 AM |
I had the same problem my first couple events - it really does make a HUGE difference if you walk the course by yourself and retrace your steps/the course every minute or so. I see some people even taking notes/drawing otu a map - I was actually wondering if this is considered kosher or not...
| KC | 08-14-2006 10:48 AM |
[QUOTE=Leadfoot77]I had the same problem my first couple events - it really does make a HUGE difference if you walk the course by yourself and retrace your steps/the course every minute or so. I see some people even taking notes/drawing otu a map - I was actually wondering if this is considered kosher or not...[/QUOTE]
Drawing maps are fine for the memory deficient. :)
Drawing maps are fine for the memory deficient. :)
| TheWRX | 08-14-2006 10:56 AM |
Three words of advice: Practice, practice, practice!
And listen to what KC said.
The difficulty also depends quite a bit on the quality of the course setup. Good courses are fairly easy to read once you get some practice. But I have seen courses that make it hard. I remember going to an event outside my local region last year (in a region that shall remain unnamed), and they had the worst course I had ever seen. I had a hard time figuring out where to go [I]while walking it[/I]. In a few places, there were groups of cones without any visual indication telling you which way to drive through them.
But generally, it just takes practice. Nerves can play a role.
And listen to what KC said.
The difficulty also depends quite a bit on the quality of the course setup. Good courses are fairly easy to read once you get some practice. But I have seen courses that make it hard. I remember going to an event outside my local region last year (in a region that shall remain unnamed), and they had the worst course I had ever seen. I had a hard time figuring out where to go [I]while walking it[/I]. In a few places, there were groups of cones without any visual indication telling you which way to drive through them.
But generally, it just takes practice. Nerves can play a role.
| WRXedUSA | 08-14-2006 11:09 AM |
1. Ride along
2. Work the corners
3. Know what the cone formations mean.
2. Work the corners
3. Know what the cone formations mean.
| Mykl | 08-14-2006 01:37 PM |
As has been said... go slow, ride along, and tell the guys who are running the show that you're a novice and would love it if you could get a vet to ride along with you.
If you're confused, just slow down.
If you're confused, just slow down.
| DrBiggly | 08-14-2006 01:43 PM |
[QUOTE=afpdl]Thats how everyones first time goes. Just get some more seat time and ride with as many people as you can if you region allows it. It takes a couple of events to stop getting lost but it will come to you.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. I was atrociously bad at autox when I first started; took a couple of years of listening to everyone's advice and taking only one thing per event to try and get correct to get to a point where I was able to put things together as a whole. :)
-Biggly
Agreed. I was atrociously bad at autox when I first started; took a couple of years of listening to everyone's advice and taking only one thing per event to try and get correct to get to a point where I was able to put things together as a whole. :)
-Biggly
| SWortham | 08-14-2006 01:44 PM |
No worries, you'll get it. I got lost a couple races ago because I wasn't looking ahead, it was my first time racing this car, and I didn't know the course well enough. But I'm still learning and improving. I agree with what KC says, to focus on learning the course before focusing on pushing the car to its limit all the time. Do whatever works for you to memorize the course.
Also as KC said, try to visualize driving the entire course. IMO, it's good to do this repeatedly but one of the best times to do this is sitting in grid just before your first run. Assuming you're not first in line, you should have the time to close your eyes and imagine the entire course. If you get lost (in your head) then step out of the car and look at the course, and try again.
And it'd probably also be a good idea to go slow enough to remind yourself of what you're doing wrong during the run. For example, looking ahead is a big one. If you're going slow enough you can ask yourself if you're looking far enough ahead and correct your posture then and there. It's when you're pushing the limits or overdriving the car that it becomes easy to lose grasp of the basics.
Also as KC said, try to visualize driving the entire course. IMO, it's good to do this repeatedly but one of the best times to do this is sitting in grid just before your first run. Assuming you're not first in line, you should have the time to close your eyes and imagine the entire course. If you get lost (in your head) then step out of the car and look at the course, and try again.
And it'd probably also be a good idea to go slow enough to remind yourself of what you're doing wrong during the run. For example, looking ahead is a big one. If you're going slow enough you can ask yourself if you're looking far enough ahead and correct your posture then and there. It's when you're pushing the limits or overdriving the car that it becomes easy to lose grasp of the basics.
| Homemade WRX | 08-14-2006 02:37 PM |
great advice I was given at my first auto-x (actually the first subaru challenge)..."for your first lap go rediculously slow to see the course from the car and if you want, even hit some cones to piss of course workers"...
| chimchimm5 | 08-14-2006 02:46 PM |
Wow... lots of great responses.
Attendance was low in the morning so they combined groups. This ended up pushing my work group to first run, and my run group to 2nd run. This didn't give me a chance to get to know any strangers, or have a group I could ride in because I was "free". I'll try to next time.
Yeah, I didn't know I really should have taking run 1 really slow. And went walking, I should have looked ahead more to take mental pictures of what I'd see while driving. I was technically picking paths/lines, but that was sort of thinking of it from a birds eye view.
I never got off course, and I hit ZERO cones the whole day. I was in control the whole time (except stepping a bit over into understeer on several corners). I remember one turn where as I approached it from the exit of the previous, I kept asking myself, "IS THIS A LEFT OR A RIGHT TURN?!?!?!?!?! AAAGHGGHHH!!"
During the walk my friend and I were being noobs and walked it together and analyzing the lines together. The 3rd time through, we were together but pretty much didn't talk about it. But you guys are right, I should have walked it solo....
On my 3rd run, I had finally started getting used to the the whole autox thing. I had learned where the understeer limit was and made a clean run. My friend riding along felt it was my smoothest run... and it ended up being one of my slowest for the day. By the time we got to fun runs, I figure out how to utilize trail braking to help rotation in practice (I've known about it theoretically, but besides karting, never did it in real life).
But I don't think it was until fun run #3 (my 7th run of the day) where I finally had the track down. I felt like I finally was calming down (even though I was trying to before). Maybe it was because my work had be done, familar with my car's limit to some degree, I started feeling familar with the track, and started having real fun.
Ok... so next time the two biggest points I'm going to remember:
- walk the track solo and visualize the from car look ahead view
- find experienced people to ride along first (if there's time)
Attendance was low in the morning so they combined groups. This ended up pushing my work group to first run, and my run group to 2nd run. This didn't give me a chance to get to know any strangers, or have a group I could ride in because I was "free". I'll try to next time.
Yeah, I didn't know I really should have taking run 1 really slow. And went walking, I should have looked ahead more to take mental pictures of what I'd see while driving. I was technically picking paths/lines, but that was sort of thinking of it from a birds eye view.
I never got off course, and I hit ZERO cones the whole day. I was in control the whole time (except stepping a bit over into understeer on several corners). I remember one turn where as I approached it from the exit of the previous, I kept asking myself, "IS THIS A LEFT OR A RIGHT TURN?!?!?!?!?! AAAGHGGHHH!!"
During the walk my friend and I were being noobs and walked it together and analyzing the lines together. The 3rd time through, we were together but pretty much didn't talk about it. But you guys are right, I should have walked it solo....
On my 3rd run, I had finally started getting used to the the whole autox thing. I had learned where the understeer limit was and made a clean run. My friend riding along felt it was my smoothest run... and it ended up being one of my slowest for the day. By the time we got to fun runs, I figure out how to utilize trail braking to help rotation in practice (I've known about it theoretically, but besides karting, never did it in real life).
But I don't think it was until fun run #3 (my 7th run of the day) where I finally had the track down. I felt like I finally was calming down (even though I was trying to before). Maybe it was because my work had be done, familar with my car's limit to some degree, I started feeling familar with the track, and started having real fun.
Ok... so next time the two biggest points I'm going to remember:
- walk the track solo and visualize the from car look ahead view
- find experienced people to ride along first (if there's time)
| SWortham | 08-14-2006 02:54 PM |
[QUOTE=chimchimm5]Ok... so next time the two biggest points I'm going to remember:
- walk the track solo and visualize the from car look ahead view
- find experienced people to ride along first (if there's time)[/QUOTE]
It's good to visualize the course how you'd be driving as you're walking it. But don't let it stop there. After you're done walking the course, you should be able to literally close your eyes and imagine driving the whole thing. If you can't do that, then you're not done walking it.
- walk the track solo and visualize the from car look ahead view
- find experienced people to ride along first (if there's time)[/QUOTE]
It's good to visualize the course how you'd be driving as you're walking it. But don't let it stop there. After you're done walking the course, you should be able to literally close your eyes and imagine driving the whole thing. If you can't do that, then you're not done walking it.
| KC | 08-14-2006 02:54 PM |
[QUOTE=chimchimm5]Ok... so next time the two biggest points I'm going to remember:
- walk the track solo and visualize the from car look ahead view
- find experienced people to ride along first (if there's time)[/QUOTE]
1st: Find an instructor, if available, that can ride in YOUR car. This will make the biggest difference. Riding with someone is good, but the only thing than is good for in the beginning is what I call the HOLY CRAP factor. That's all you're going to be saying for the run while being "along for the ride". :)
Get an instructor. :)
--kC
- walk the track solo and visualize the from car look ahead view
- find experienced people to ride along first (if there's time)[/QUOTE]
1st: Find an instructor, if available, that can ride in YOUR car. This will make the biggest difference. Riding with someone is good, but the only thing than is good for in the beginning is what I call the HOLY CRAP factor. That's all you're going to be saying for the run while being "along for the ride". :)
Get an instructor. :)
--kC
| shatdow | 08-14-2006 03:16 PM |
Chimchimm -- I was at that auto-x this weekend, I remember watching you run. It was my first as well. I thought your runs were consistent, it didn't look from the sidelines like you were lost at all.
I take it you didn't stay for the afternoon runs?
I take it you didn't stay for the afternoon runs?
| Mighty Subie | 08-14-2006 03:42 PM |
I did a couple ride with one of my buddies on the first AutoX that I went to. He has done a lot of these and It was amazing to see what a good driver does. I didn't race in that event, but I did get a feel for it. It was nice becuase I was introduced to all the rules and everything like that without actually having to get geared up to race.
The second event I went to, I raced in. I did my first couple runs by myself so that I could get a feel for my car and see what I could correct on my own and get comfortable with the course. I then asked a couple different guys to ride with me, and they gave me VERY VERY helpful hints and tips.
I also ride with a couple other people each AutoX so that I get a feel for how everyone else runs, and it helps me to decide how I would like to run it myself. It also gets rid of any fears of taking a corner too hard, or jamming on the brakes really hard and being able to make corners when I ride with the people putting down the best times because they are doing it in control, and it just builds my confidence.
A good walkthrough is the first thing to do.
Try to ride with someone racing before you.
Ask someone to ride with you to give pointers. I don't like doing this the first run because there is more than likely things that I will be able to correct on my own before someone starts giving hints.
HAVE FUN!!! Thats what AutoX is all about. I don't care if I get crappy times as long as I had fun with it. It's a big social event where you get to meet other "car nuts" and stuff like that. Once going to an AutoX isn't fun anymore, you should find another hobby!!!
The second event I went to, I raced in. I did my first couple runs by myself so that I could get a feel for my car and see what I could correct on my own and get comfortable with the course. I then asked a couple different guys to ride with me, and they gave me VERY VERY helpful hints and tips.
I also ride with a couple other people each AutoX so that I get a feel for how everyone else runs, and it helps me to decide how I would like to run it myself. It also gets rid of any fears of taking a corner too hard, or jamming on the brakes really hard and being able to make corners when I ride with the people putting down the best times because they are doing it in control, and it just builds my confidence.
A good walkthrough is the first thing to do.
Try to ride with someone racing before you.
Ask someone to ride with you to give pointers. I don't like doing this the first run because there is more than likely things that I will be able to correct on my own before someone starts giving hints.
HAVE FUN!!! Thats what AutoX is all about. I don't care if I get crappy times as long as I had fun with it. It's a big social event where you get to meet other "car nuts" and stuff like that. Once going to an AutoX isn't fun anymore, you should find another hobby!!!
| blueb3 | 08-14-2006 04:44 PM |
Glad to see you didn't get scared off, I ran into some of the same problems you did when I first tried my hand at rallycross. Get back out there and get some more seat time! The advice above is all excellent, nothing more I can add since I am still a noob myself.
| chimchimm5 | 08-14-2006 04:46 PM |
[QUOTE=shatdow]Chimchimm -- I was at that auto-x this weekend, I remember watching you run. It was my first as well. I thought your runs were consistent, it didn't look from the sidelines like you were lost at all.
I take it you didn't stay for the afternoon runs?[/QUOTE]
Wow... you were there? When did you run? Which car were you running?
I went to the Saturday UFO8 in Marina... I didn't mention that before. Is this the one you were thinking about?
Yeah, I left by 1pm after the morning fun runs... I had to get back to my family. (why, yes, this wagon has a baby seat in it...) That meant that even though I should be Dstock, I ran with ST to be done earlier. That worked out, because I missed the accident (horrible!).
Nice to hear that it didn't LOOK like I was lost. :p But in the car, I felt massive confusion and because of it I wasn't setting up the next corner the way I had originally intended.
I take it you didn't stay for the afternoon runs?[/QUOTE]
Wow... you were there? When did you run? Which car were you running?
I went to the Saturday UFO8 in Marina... I didn't mention that before. Is this the one you were thinking about?
Yeah, I left by 1pm after the morning fun runs... I had to get back to my family. (why, yes, this wagon has a baby seat in it...) That meant that even though I should be Dstock, I ran with ST to be done earlier. That worked out, because I missed the accident (horrible!).
Nice to hear that it didn't LOOK like I was lost. :p But in the car, I felt massive confusion and because of it I wasn't setting up the next corner the way I had originally intended.
| shatdow | 08-14-2006 05:03 PM |
Yup, I was there. I was to run in the last group of the day, in a 79 rx7.
I thought about making a thread about this, but decided against it. In my group, the flagger made an error and sent my friend in an 03 bugeye rex onto the track too early. He was t-boned at the second crossing by an mx6, and that ended the day of racing. This was at the very start of our group, My friend was the 3rd on the track; I was lined up but did not get to run.
Everybody in the wreck is OK, save a dislocated shoulder (my friend). The mx6 was totalled, the WRX, maybe 8k in damage. We're going to try to go to the September autox and give it another try. I had a lot of fun, save for the last bit.
I thought about making a thread about this, but decided against it. In my group, the flagger made an error and sent my friend in an 03 bugeye rex onto the track too early. He was t-boned at the second crossing by an mx6, and that ended the day of racing. This was at the very start of our group, My friend was the 3rd on the track; I was lined up but did not get to run.
Everybody in the wreck is OK, save a dislocated shoulder (my friend). The mx6 was totalled, the WRX, maybe 8k in damage. We're going to try to go to the September autox and give it another try. I had a lot of fun, save for the last bit.
| jamesohoh7 | 08-14-2006 05:54 PM |
whoa!.. there was a wreck!?, that sucks! :(
| tuskenraider | 08-14-2006 06:04 PM |
[QUOTE]In my group, the flagger made an error and sent my friend in an 03 bugeye rex onto the track too early. He was t-boned at the second crossing by an mx6, and that ended the day of racing. [/QUOTE] Wow.........with what club? Apparantly the drivers weren't looking ahead either.......
| shatdow | 08-14-2006 07:05 PM |
I won't name any names; they were shortstaffed for the day, and the this was the first time the flagger had ever done it before. While it was an error in judgment to put him at flagger, it wasn't anything they could have predicted.
Second, I see no way the drivers could have avoided the accident, given the setup. I'll take a picture of the course map when I get home to clarify. Both drivers were coming out of corners, and only one (the mx6) would have had a view of the intersection before reaching it. The reaction time at the speed he was moving out of the corner wouldn't have allowed him to avoid the accident completely.
It was a bad scenario for all involved, and it's a good thing nobody was hurt. They will be more vigilant in the future on their course layouts and who they pick for key positions, too.
Second, I see no way the drivers could have avoided the accident, given the setup. I'll take a picture of the course map when I get home to clarify. Both drivers were coming out of corners, and only one (the mx6) would have had a view of the intersection before reaching it. The reaction time at the speed he was moving out of the corner wouldn't have allowed him to avoid the accident completely.
It was a bad scenario for all involved, and it's a good thing nobody was hurt. They will be more vigilant in the future on their course layouts and who they pick for key positions, too.
| chimchimm5 | 08-14-2006 09:03 PM |
Yeah, I'm all shook up from the realization that the accident happened during the run group I was SUPPOSED to go in. But I wanted to get done early and ran my DS car with the ST's. Further more, being that this was my first autox ever, I was totally at the mercy of the starter because I had too many things on my mind. By the time I got to go do fun runs, I realized I needed to wait for the car ahead to pass the cross over, and make sure no one was in the switchbacks to hit me at the start/finish cross over. Then I'd get the green flag.
But once you're in the course, there's NO WAY you could know that the starter let someone go at the wrong time.
Did the accident happen at the start/finish crossover, or the midcourse crossover?
But once you're in the course, there's NO WAY you could know that the starter let someone go at the wrong time.
Did the accident happen at the start/finish crossover, or the midcourse crossover?
| shatdow | 08-14-2006 09:07 PM |
It was on the midcourse cross. The mx6 was in upper 2nd gear at the point of impact. We were all definitely shaken up by the incident. After the mess was cleaned up, they altered the course and took out both crossings for the Sunday event.
| chimchimm5 | 08-14-2006 11:08 PM |
Ah... so the mazda was accelerating into the straight and the WRX was given the go signal and they met horribly. That's just stupid on the starters part.
| greg donovan | 08-14-2006 11:24 PM |
re: getting lost
that is one reason i love rallycross. you have visible tracks to follow.
that is one reason i love rallycross. you have visible tracks to follow.
| Mykl | 08-14-2006 11:28 PM |
[QUOTE=chimchimm5]But once you're in the course, there's NO WAY you could know that the starter let someone go at the wrong time.
[/QUOTE]
Well.... you can take it upon yourself to get a feel for where the car ahead of you *should* be when the flagger lets you out on the course. If there's a cross, and you've been paying attention, you should have some idea.
I know this isn't true 100% of the time, but I'm definitely going to start paying closer attention to this.
[/QUOTE]
Well.... you can take it upon yourself to get a feel for where the car ahead of you *should* be when the flagger lets you out on the course. If there's a cross, and you've been paying attention, you should have some idea.
I know this isn't true 100% of the time, but I'm definitely going to start paying closer attention to this.
| chimchimm5 | 08-15-2006 12:29 AM |
[QUOTE=Mykl]Well.... you can take it upon yourself to get a feel for where the car ahead of you *should* be when the flagger lets you out on the course. If there's a cross, and you've been paying attention, you should have some idea.
I know this isn't true 100% of the time, but I'm definitely going to start paying closer attention to this.[/QUOTE]
Actually, I was talking about not being able to worry about the car entering BEHIND you. IE, there was no way (well, without him not concentrating on the course as hard) for the Mazda already on the track to know when the WRX was going to be let out after him.
I don't blame the WRX, but when I get gridded from now on, I'm going to do my own "start check" for myself if there are crossovers.
I know this isn't true 100% of the time, but I'm definitely going to start paying closer attention to this.[/QUOTE]
Actually, I was talking about not being able to worry about the car entering BEHIND you. IE, there was no way (well, without him not concentrating on the course as hard) for the Mazda already on the track to know when the WRX was going to be let out after him.
I don't blame the WRX, but when I get gridded from now on, I'm going to do my own "start check" for myself if there are crossovers.
| KC | 08-15-2006 07:55 AM |
And this is why Roger Johnsons course design handbook says this:
[QUOTE]Allow for multiple cars on course if necessary
� Avoid crossovers[/QUOTE]
Crossovers should avoided. Period.
Was this an SCCA club?
[QUOTE]Allow for multiple cars on course if necessary
� Avoid crossovers[/QUOTE]
Crossovers should avoided. Period.
Was this an SCCA club?
| sachilles | 08-15-2006 01:49 PM |
One thing that I heard this weekend, about an autocross in another region from mine, that I thought was a cool idea...especially for the novices. Its so simple, I'm suprised I've never encountered before(I've been autocrossing for about 10 years[but I live in my own bubble of a world :lol: ]). I guess this particular club chalks the line through the course.....It might not be the "line", but I guess it shows the proper course through the cones. I'm sure it wears off as the day progresses....but I think it would be good and bad for novices. It would show them the proper path through the cones=good. It would get them dependant on seeing a line on the ground, rather than looking ahead at the cones to determine there own line=bad.
anyways, as someone mentioned earlier, as a novice, take it slow the first run.
Just keep a good attitude, have fun, and you will improve bit by bit.
anyways, as someone mentioned earlier, as a novice, take it slow the first run.
Just keep a good attitude, have fun, and you will improve bit by bit.
| chimchimm5 | 08-15-2006 02:04 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]And this is why Roger Johnsons course design handbook says this:
Crossovers should avoided. Period.
Was this an SCCA club?[/QUOTE]
No, this was a local chapter... UFO, formerly a part of NASA.
When I first saw the crossovers (2), I thought it was strange, but figured they'd only allow one car on at a time. Instead, they allowed up to 3 cars at a time. The morning starters were aware of things and after experiencing it I realized that there really are only two things to check for:
- make sure the previous car has passed the midcourse cross
- make sure no cars are in the last swichback to the finish
They really should have made sure all starters knew these two points. But, that's hindsight.
The benefit of the crosses were:
- longer track
- longer straight after the first series of turns
- long finish run off
The drawback was obviously the risk of the accident that happened.
Either don't have the crosses, or really make sure the starter (who apparently has the most dangerous job) understands and is aware and ready to work the important points.
On another note, I'm a little concerned with multiple cars period. There were several cars who would floor their corvette (or whatever) into a spinning cone smashing projectile. Leaving the course like that is bound to put the flaggers and other cars on the track in jeopardy.
I may be a noob, I may be slow, but I sure as heck didn't plow through cones. Clipping cones, no problem. (Wrecklessly) bashing through cones (and reentering the course in another section), I have a problem.
Crossovers should avoided. Period.
Was this an SCCA club?[/QUOTE]
No, this was a local chapter... UFO, formerly a part of NASA.
When I first saw the crossovers (2), I thought it was strange, but figured they'd only allow one car on at a time. Instead, they allowed up to 3 cars at a time. The morning starters were aware of things and after experiencing it I realized that there really are only two things to check for:
- make sure the previous car has passed the midcourse cross
- make sure no cars are in the last swichback to the finish
They really should have made sure all starters knew these two points. But, that's hindsight.
The benefit of the crosses were:
- longer track
- longer straight after the first series of turns
- long finish run off
The drawback was obviously the risk of the accident that happened.
Either don't have the crosses, or really make sure the starter (who apparently has the most dangerous job) understands and is aware and ready to work the important points.
On another note, I'm a little concerned with multiple cars period. There were several cars who would floor their corvette (or whatever) into a spinning cone smashing projectile. Leaving the course like that is bound to put the flaggers and other cars on the track in jeopardy.
I may be a noob, I may be slow, but I sure as heck didn't plow through cones. Clipping cones, no problem. (Wrecklessly) bashing through cones (and reentering the course in another section), I have a problem.
| shatdow | 08-15-2006 02:39 PM |
You beat me to it chimchimm. I like your analysis of the setup/events of the day. I also agree with your point about the vettes/camaros/etc. Many of them were on the throttle so aggressively, they forgot to actually drive the course. The datsuns/miatas had much better times than most of the vettes.
| jcroy66 | 08-15-2006 02:46 PM |
[QUOTE=chimchimm5]Clipping cones, no problem. Bashing through cones, I have a problem.[/QUOTE]Get over it. Seriously. Speaking from the POV of a SSS (Solo Safety Steward), I would [b]much[/b] rather someone center-punch a cone with their front bumper than try to "save it" and put it into an uncontrolled spin.
Unless this club is packing their cones with concrete or stacking them 3 or 4 high, a cone should not be a threat to safety. An out-of-control spinning Corvette could be.
Besides, your corner workers/flaggers/other vehicles should never be close enough to the course that a "bashed" cone would reach them before they had time to move anyway. If they're close enough that a cone could hit them, what about said Corvette?
Unless this club is packing their cones with concrete or stacking them 3 or 4 high, a cone should not be a threat to safety. An out-of-control spinning Corvette could be.
Besides, your corner workers/flaggers/other vehicles should never be close enough to the course that a "bashed" cone would reach them before they had time to move anyway. If they're close enough that a cone could hit them, what about said Corvette?
| chimchimm5 | 08-15-2006 03:01 PM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66]Get over it. Seriously. Speaking from the POV of a SSS (Solo Safety Steward), I would [b]much[/b] rather someone center-punch a cone with their front bumper than try to "save it" and put it into an uncontrolled spin.
Unless this club is packing their cones with concrete or stacking them 3 or 4 high, a cone should not be a threat to safety. An out-of-control spinning Corvette could be.
Besides, your corner workers/flaggers/other vehicles should never be close enough to the course that a "bashed" cone would reach them before they had time to move anyway. If they're close enough that a cone could hit them, what about said Corvette?[/QUOTE]
I think you're interpreting "bashing cones" differently then I was using it.
I'm not saying to "save" the cone, I'm taking about those out-of-control-spinning corvette with both mentioned.
One corvette spun so badly that he smashed through the cones and KEPT SPINNING and sliding and (almost?) crossed over into a later portion of the course; smashing more cones coming from the off-course zone into the in-course zone. THAT's what I'm talking about.
And really, unless he was purposely trying to drift (and failed), I didn't understand why he was obviously holding onto the way too early WOT midcorner (thus inducing the spin).
Unless this club is packing their cones with concrete or stacking them 3 or 4 high, a cone should not be a threat to safety. An out-of-control spinning Corvette could be.
Besides, your corner workers/flaggers/other vehicles should never be close enough to the course that a "bashed" cone would reach them before they had time to move anyway. If they're close enough that a cone could hit them, what about said Corvette?[/QUOTE]
I think you're interpreting "bashing cones" differently then I was using it.
I'm not saying to "save" the cone, I'm taking about those out-of-control-spinning corvette with both mentioned.
One corvette spun so badly that he smashed through the cones and KEPT SPINNING and sliding and (almost?) crossed over into a later portion of the course; smashing more cones coming from the off-course zone into the in-course zone. THAT's what I'm talking about.
And really, unless he was purposely trying to drift (and failed), I didn't understand why he was obviously holding onto the way too early WOT midcorner (thus inducing the spin).
| jcroy66 | 08-15-2006 03:59 PM |
Ah yeah, that's another situation entirely. I would HOPE that someone talked to said Corvette driver about toning it down in the first place and also about how to STOP once out of control.
| afpdl | 08-15-2006 04:11 PM |
[QUOTE=sachilles] I guess this particular club chalks the line through the course.....It might not be the "line", but I guess it shows the proper course through the cones. I'm sure it wears off as the day progresses....but I think it would be good and bad for novices. [/QUOTE]
That is standard issue at national events afaik. Houston region does it at all events.
That is standard issue at national events afaik. Houston region does it at all events.
| jamesohoh7 | 08-16-2006 10:08 AM |
[QUOTE=afpdl]That is standard issue at national events afaik. Houston region does it at all events.[/QUOTE]
hmmm... I read that differently... it sounds like he was saying they illustrate the 'driving line' (or whatever.. :meh: ) through the course, not just ouline the boundaries like you're talking about. I don't think I'd like that (what I'm thinking) b/c I'd surely get all screwed up :lol:
hmmm... I read that differently... it sounds like he was saying they illustrate the 'driving line' (or whatever.. :meh: ) through the course, not just ouline the boundaries like you're talking about. I don't think I'd like that (what I'm thinking) b/c I'd surely get all screwed up :lol:
| KC | 08-16-2006 10:12 AM |
[QUOTE=afpdl]That is standard issue at national events afaik. Houston region does it at all events.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes the chalked line is not the boundary of the racing line. ;)
I've been on national courses where they chalk a boundary short, on purpose. You had to drive over the chalked line for the 'real' line. It really shows who's paying attention or not. I've been seen walking the course on the other side of the line and people say 'You're not going to be there' to which I reply 'wanna bet?' :)
--kC
Sometimes the chalked line is not the boundary of the racing line. ;)
I've been on national courses where they chalk a boundary short, on purpose. You had to drive over the chalked line for the 'real' line. It really shows who's paying attention or not. I've been seen walking the course on the other side of the line and people say 'You're not going to be there' to which I reply 'wanna bet?' :)
--kC
| sachilles | 08-16-2006 10:47 AM |
The "line" is somewhat different for every driver and/or car, so I think it would be tough to make it universal for everyone.......in terms of keeping a novice from getting lost, I think its a good idea.
Or are you folks saying they chalk the lines from cone to cone.......so that all cones that would be on my left side would have a line connecting them, and all the cones on my right would have line connecting them....making a chalk outline of a road through the course?
Either way would work. I do envision that newcombers might not realize that the fastest path through the course might require going over the chalked line.
Or are you folks saying they chalk the lines from cone to cone.......so that all cones that would be on my left side would have a line connecting them, and all the cones on my right would have line connecting them....making a chalk outline of a road through the course?
Either way would work. I do envision that newcombers might not realize that the fastest path through the course might require going over the chalked line.
| sachilles | 08-16-2006 10:53 AM |
[QUOTE=jamesohoh7]hmmm... I read that differently... it sounds like he was saying they illustrate the 'driving line' (or whatever.. :meh: ) through the course, not just ouline the boundaries like you're talking about. I don't think I'd like that (what I'm thinking) b/c I'd surely get all screwed up :lol:[/QUOTE]
That is how I understand it when the guy told me about it. However, making a chalk outline of a road also makes sense to me. Its all relative, as a soft guidline through the sea of cones. I'd wager that experienced drivers would use it very little.
If nothing else, it allows folks to walk through the course, without having to consult a map of the course.
I'm just suprised that I haven't seen it done before, seems like a very simple thing that could be helpful.
That is how I understand it when the guy told me about it. However, making a chalk outline of a road also makes sense to me. Its all relative, as a soft guidline through the sea of cones. I'd wager that experienced drivers would use it very little.
If nothing else, it allows folks to walk through the course, without having to consult a map of the course.
I'm just suprised that I haven't seen it done before, seems like a very simple thing that could be helpful.
| shatdow | 08-16-2006 01:00 PM |
[URL=http://www.baautox.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=826&start=0&rid=218]Here's some more discussion about the events of the day.[/URL]
| jamesohoh7 | 08-16-2006 03:18 PM |
[QUOTE=sachilles]That is how I understand it when the guy told me about it. However, making a chalk outline of a road also makes sense to me. Its all relative, as a soft guidline through the sea of cones. I'd wager that experienced drivers would use it very little.
If nothing else, it allows folks to walk through the course, without having to consult a map of the course.
I'm just suprised that I haven't seen it done before, seems like a very simple thing that could be helpful.[/QUOTE]
Well, from what myself and Alex (afpdl) see every month, they outline the 'road', as you say. For sure, that helps noobs stay on course. I am willing to bet that this is what the guy was describing when you were talking to him.. he may have just misspoken in some small way to give you the impression it was the so-called 'driving/fast line'.
Now, as KC up there has said, many times they outline this 'road' in a sub-optimal way w/respect to the line you might choose to drive yourself. I recall courses where I had at least two tires on the other side of the outline. The outline is one part 'guide' for newbs, and can also be one part 'visual b.s.' to hose you up if you adhere to it too tightly. There is no penalty for driving on/over the outline so long as you don't miss gates and what-not. :)
One small drawback is that if there's a corner with a bunch of noobs working it, they can become confused and call in a DNF or something if they see you go 'outside the lines' (even though that's not a penalty). I've seen it happen...hell I probably called one in when I was a noob too! :lol:
If nothing else, it allows folks to walk through the course, without having to consult a map of the course.
I'm just suprised that I haven't seen it done before, seems like a very simple thing that could be helpful.[/QUOTE]
Well, from what myself and Alex (afpdl) see every month, they outline the 'road', as you say. For sure, that helps noobs stay on course. I am willing to bet that this is what the guy was describing when you were talking to him.. he may have just misspoken in some small way to give you the impression it was the so-called 'driving/fast line'.
Now, as KC up there has said, many times they outline this 'road' in a sub-optimal way w/respect to the line you might choose to drive yourself. I recall courses where I had at least two tires on the other side of the outline. The outline is one part 'guide' for newbs, and can also be one part 'visual b.s.' to hose you up if you adhere to it too tightly. There is no penalty for driving on/over the outline so long as you don't miss gates and what-not. :)
One small drawback is that if there's a corner with a bunch of noobs working it, they can become confused and call in a DNF or something if they see you go 'outside the lines' (even though that's not a penalty). I've seen it happen...hell I probably called one in when I was a noob too! :lol:
| sachilles | 08-16-2006 03:28 PM |
I'm sure you are right.
I likely mis heard him or did not fully understand him at the time.
Sometimes the brain hears what it wants to hear :lol: , and I'm guilty of that a lot of the time :lol:
I likely mis heard him or did not fully understand him at the time.
Sometimes the brain hears what it wants to hear :lol: , and I'm guilty of that a lot of the time :lol:
| jamesohoh7 | 08-16-2006 03:33 PM |
[QUOTE=shatdow][URL=http://www.baautox.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=826&start=0&rid=218]Here's some more discussion about the events of the day.[/URL][/QUOTE]
Wow, reading that left my jaw on the floor. I can't believe how many slackers apparently inhabit that region. I feel sorry for the folks doing all the work. Here in Houston, work skipping is unheard of... if it happens, I've never seen it. And the kid doing the donut?... he'd have about 100 people pay him a visit with various bludgeoning implements quick, fast and in a hurry. :lol: oh,.. and of course he'd be invited to leave the premises, permanently.
Wow, reading that left my jaw on the floor. I can't believe how many slackers apparently inhabit that region. I feel sorry for the folks doing all the work. Here in Houston, work skipping is unheard of... if it happens, I've never seen it. And the kid doing the donut?... he'd have about 100 people pay him a visit with various bludgeoning implements quick, fast and in a hurry. :lol: oh,.. and of course he'd be invited to leave the premises, permanently.
| jamesohoh7 | 08-16-2006 03:33 PM |
[QUOTE=sachilles]I'm sure you are right.
I likely mis heard him or did not fully understand him at the time.
Sometimes the brain hears what it wants to hear :lol: , and I'm guilty of that a lot of the time :lol:[/QUOTE]
<--- raises hand!.. me too, man! :D
I likely mis heard him or did not fully understand him at the time.
Sometimes the brain hears what it wants to hear :lol: , and I'm guilty of that a lot of the time :lol:[/QUOTE]
<--- raises hand!.. me too, man! :D
| sachilles | 08-16-2006 03:47 PM |
[QUOTE=jamesohoh7]Wow, reading that left my jaw on the floor. I can't believe how many slackers apparently inhabit that region. I feel sorry for the folks doing all the work. Here in Houston, work skipping is unheard of... if it happens, I've never seen it. And the kid doing the donut?... he'd have about 100 people pay him a visit with various bludgeoning implements quick, fast and in a hurry. :lol: oh,.. and of course he'd be invited to leave the premises, permanently.[/QUOTE]
The same here. We have a tough time getting a lot to use as it is. If we do ANYTHING to upset folks we could lose the lot. So we are pretty hard nosed about that stuff.
There aren't enough big open lots around here to be playing around.
The same here. We have a tough time getting a lot to use as it is. If we do ANYTHING to upset folks we could lose the lot. So we are pretty hard nosed about that stuff.
There aren't enough big open lots around here to be playing around.
| KC | 08-16-2006 03:58 PM |
Being 'realxed' as an organization is going the way of the Dodo. Too many people take advantage of it. Yet, you hear time and time again... I go to X club instead of Y club because they're more relaxed about things.
You know what? If you become relaxed, you start getting people hurt. This is becoming ever more prevalent (sp?) now a days.
You got a gripe with someone telling you how it is that didn't "ask" you to do something? Tough. Asking means you have an option to say no. :devil:
--kC
You know what? If you become relaxed, you start getting people hurt. This is becoming ever more prevalent (sp?) now a days.
You got a gripe with someone telling you how it is that didn't "ask" you to do something? Tough. Asking means you have an option to say no. :devil:
--kC
| sachilles | 08-16-2006 04:26 PM |
relaxed is a little broad a statement.
I would say my club is relaxed.
We are tough on tech relating to safety.
We are tough on safety on and off course.
We are tough on course design.
Tough on being presentable to the general public.
We are relaxed because:
We are very welcoming to novices. A novice will be killed with kindness. A novice that appears eager to learn, will have a TON of input.
Your car breaks, someone will let you drive theirs.
we are relaxed in terms of classing. We class ourselves, you cheat, you are cheating yourself. Haven't heard a "protest" that was serious in a long, long time.
I think our stance on safety is reflective of us being independant of a nantional organization. I doubt that we would have our current insurance if we had not demonstrated an ability to run safe event through out our history.
In addition to autocrosses, we organize and run, TSD's, ice time trials, and hillclimbs. The last one being the biggest safety concern. An amazing amount of work is involved with running a hillclimb safely. Speeds are rediculously fast and trees are not very forgiving.
However, we are such a small organization its more like a family than anything. So its hard for a newcomber to get lost in the shuffle or get led astray. Like any family, if you are not pulling your own wieght, someone will call you on it. That is also how the whole area is in general. I can certainly see big regions having a much tougher time than us, as we are much smaller in scale than those big regions.....so there is nowhere to hide if you are misbehaving.
To give you an indication...if we have 50 entrants, that would be huge event for us :lol:
I can't imagine how many entrants you would have at an event in the bay area of california.
I would say my club is relaxed.
We are tough on tech relating to safety.
We are tough on safety on and off course.
We are tough on course design.
Tough on being presentable to the general public.
We are relaxed because:
We are very welcoming to novices. A novice will be killed with kindness. A novice that appears eager to learn, will have a TON of input.
Your car breaks, someone will let you drive theirs.
we are relaxed in terms of classing. We class ourselves, you cheat, you are cheating yourself. Haven't heard a "protest" that was serious in a long, long time.
I think our stance on safety is reflective of us being independant of a nantional organization. I doubt that we would have our current insurance if we had not demonstrated an ability to run safe event through out our history.
In addition to autocrosses, we organize and run, TSD's, ice time trials, and hillclimbs. The last one being the biggest safety concern. An amazing amount of work is involved with running a hillclimb safely. Speeds are rediculously fast and trees are not very forgiving.
However, we are such a small organization its more like a family than anything. So its hard for a newcomber to get lost in the shuffle or get led astray. Like any family, if you are not pulling your own wieght, someone will call you on it. That is also how the whole area is in general. I can certainly see big regions having a much tougher time than us, as we are much smaller in scale than those big regions.....so there is nowhere to hide if you are misbehaving.
To give you an indication...if we have 50 entrants, that would be huge event for us :lol:
I can't imagine how many entrants you would have at an event in the bay area of california.
| afpdl | 08-16-2006 04:45 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]Sometimes the chalked line is not the boundary of the racing line. ;)
I've been on national courses where they chalk a boundary short, on purpose. You had to drive over the chalked line for the 'real' line. It really shows who's paying attention or not. I've been seen walking the course on the other side of the line and people say 'You're not going to be there' to which I reply 'wanna bet?' :)
--kC[/QUOTE]
Its the same here. Roger Johnson is the one that usually does the chalking and you know he is all about the visual BS.
I've been on national courses where they chalk a boundary short, on purpose. You had to drive over the chalked line for the 'real' line. It really shows who's paying attention or not. I've been seen walking the course on the other side of the line and people say 'You're not going to be there' to which I reply 'wanna bet?' :)
--kC[/QUOTE]
Its the same here. Roger Johnson is the one that usually does the chalking and you know he is all about the visual BS.
| Mighty Subie | 08-16-2006 05:59 PM |
Just a quick question... on the accident at the Auto Cross... wasn't there cone pickers throughout the course with red flags? Didn't they see the car being released too soon? or did everyone drop the ball that day?
| chimchimm5 | 08-16-2006 07:21 PM |
It happened too quick. The cross where the accident happened is like 3-5 seconds from the start. Plus, losers were hiding and not showing up to work, which meant understaffing. Plus newbies had to do flag.
The flaggers closest to the accident point would have been watching ONE of the cars, not both, as they are supposed to be watching the car in their section (+ a general sense of awareness).
Ultimately, I blame the lamebutts who skipped out on working, as that left the crew understaffed, bumped a newbie into the start position, and preoccupied the people in the trailer with too many things to worry about to be able to catch the errant start.
In the future, some more training of the starter could prevent future incidents like this, but ultimately it was the flakers that set the ball of destruction rolling.
The flaggers closest to the accident point would have been watching ONE of the cars, not both, as they are supposed to be watching the car in their section (+ a general sense of awareness).
Ultimately, I blame the lamebutts who skipped out on working, as that left the crew understaffed, bumped a newbie into the start position, and preoccupied the people in the trailer with too many things to worry about to be able to catch the errant start.
In the future, some more training of the starter could prevent future incidents like this, but ultimately it was the flakers that set the ball of destruction rolling.
| WRX11 | 08-17-2006 11:59 AM |
^Sounds like the organizer is not very organized. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=TubeDriver]If you can't stay on course: slow down! ;)[/QUOTE]Yeah don't focus on setting up for next turn just yet. Focus on the finishing without Off Coursing.
[QUOTE=TubeDriver]If you can't stay on course: slow down! ;)[/QUOTE]Yeah don't focus on setting up for next turn just yet. Focus on the finishing without Off Coursing.
| chimchimm5 | 08-17-2006 12:08 PM |
[QUOTE=WRX11]^Sounds like the organizer is not very organized. :rolleyes:
Yeah don't focus on setting up for next turn just yet. Focus on the finishing without Off Coursing.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they could have been a little better organized.
As for the course.... as I posted earlier, I never went OFF course. In fact, I never hit a cone all day.
I got lost IN course.
Yeah don't focus on setting up for next turn just yet. Focus on the finishing without Off Coursing.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they could have been a little better organized.
As for the course.... as I posted earlier, I never went OFF course. In fact, I never hit a cone all day.
I got lost IN course.
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