| KC | 02-03-2005 08:04 AM |
New Falkens - Pricing and Pre-Order
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[url]http://www.vulcantire.com/azenis_rt615_t.htm[/url]
From a post on Honda-Tech (e-mail to someone there from Vulcan tire):
[QUOTE]Dear car guys and gals,
Falken has finally let the cat out of the bag! They have supplied us with pricing and more specific availability on the RT-615. This information as well as the ability to pre-order this tire will be posted on our website today at 3pm EST. Go to: [url]http://www.vulcantire.com/azenis_rt615_t.htm[/url]
Just a bit of a warning, don't be shocked at the pricing. This tire IS more expensive than the old Azenis. For example a 225/45R17 will cost about $40 more than the old design. We assure you we are marking-up this tire using our standard (extra low) Falken mark-up. Also, in order to protect you from any fluctuations in pricing on this new tire we will be offering 30 day price protection to anyone who pre-orders this tire. (See the link above for details later today)
Thanks for showing interest in the new RT-615 and Vulcan Tire Sales and good luck racing this season.
[/QUOTE]
--kC
From a post on Honda-Tech (e-mail to someone there from Vulcan tire):
[QUOTE]Dear car guys and gals,
Falken has finally let the cat out of the bag! They have supplied us with pricing and more specific availability on the RT-615. This information as well as the ability to pre-order this tire will be posted on our website today at 3pm EST. Go to: [url]http://www.vulcantire.com/azenis_rt615_t.htm[/url]
Just a bit of a warning, don't be shocked at the pricing. This tire IS more expensive than the old Azenis. For example a 225/45R17 will cost about $40 more than the old design. We assure you we are marking-up this tire using our standard (extra low) Falken mark-up. Also, in order to protect you from any fluctuations in pricing on this new tire we will be offering 30 day price protection to anyone who pre-orders this tire. (See the link above for details later today)
Thanks for showing interest in the new RT-615 and Vulcan Tire Sales and good luck racing this season.
[/QUOTE]
--kC
| PhilC | 02-03-2005 08:31 AM |
Up to $624 a set delivered for the 225/45-17s now. The cheap tires are getting awfully expensive anymore.
| snowman4us | 02-03-2005 08:35 AM |
WHAT...they only offer 1 size in the 16's....thats horable..i guess everyone better start looking for cheep stickies...
will they still contiue production of the old design or is it already stoped?
will they still contiue production of the old design or is it already stoped?
| omahasubaru | 02-03-2005 08:57 AM |
Last I heard... "Get the RT-215's while you still can"!
If you want 16's... keep your eye on the Hankook Z212 that is due to hit US shores soon. They're offering some decent STS/STX sizes 225/45-16 245/45-16 I'm willing to bet they'll be cheaper than the new Falken too. Heck, Kumho MX's are cheaper now too.
If you want 16's... keep your eye on the Hankook Z212 that is due to hit US shores soon. They're offering some decent STS/STX sizes 225/45-16 245/45-16 I'm willing to bet they'll be cheaper than the new Falken too. Heck, Kumho MX's are cheaper now too.
| KC | 02-03-2005 09:06 AM |
Hmmm... 275/35-18 Hoosiers are only $34 more per tire in my size. :lol:
| Paisan | 02-03-2005 09:20 AM |
wow just snagged a set of 215-45-16s loved them last summer on my car, wouldn't go another summer without em, I'd have to buy Toyo Proxie RA1s for daily/track use.
-mike
-mike
| merlot | 02-03-2005 09:23 AM |
[QUOTE=snowman4us]WHAT...they only offer 1 size in the 16's....thats horable..i guess everyone better start looking for cheep stickies...
will they still contiue production of the old design or is it already stoped?[/QUOTE]
Yup, it sucks. I'm in the market for an STX tire in stock size. I'll probably go with Kumho MX's.
will they still contiue production of the old design or is it already stoped?[/QUOTE]
Yup, it sucks. I'm in the market for an STX tire in stock size. I'll probably go with Kumho MX's.
| Corey | 02-03-2005 09:24 AM |
Honestly, the cost of just running a certain tire is nothing compared to the $$$ I'm spending just to test all these different tires that I may only use for 10-20 runs ;)
Not to mention the additional $100/set for shaving :furious:
I'll just be happy when I find something that is as fast, or a tad faster than the 215/45/16 RT-215's that I ran last year.
Corey #89 STS
Not to mention the additional $100/set for shaving :furious:
I'll just be happy when I find something that is as fast, or a tad faster than the 215/45/16 RT-215's that I ran last year.
Corey #89 STS
| wrx2.0 555 | 02-03-2005 09:25 AM |
This makes me feel MUCH better about my MX purchase ;)
| Rickyh | 02-03-2005 09:27 AM |
Great. They don't come in the stock size like the old azenis.
| DrBiggly | 02-03-2005 09:56 AM |
I have a nearly new set of the older style on the car now, along with some RE070s, and another set of nearly dead older style. Yet I still find myself looking at more tires... :lol:
| forced4 | 02-03-2005 11:12 AM |
I'll take my chances with some MXs or Z212 now if the price is increasing this much.
Older model $106 (225/45/17) vs new model $147 (225/45/17)
[B]38+% price increase[/B] :eek:
Older model $106 (225/45/17) vs new model $147 (225/45/17)
[B]38+% price increase[/B] :eek:
| driggity | 02-03-2005 12:35 PM |
As pointed out in the wheels/tire forum its interesting that Vulcan tire is offering a 30 day price protection on all pre-orders. Almost as though they think that Falken may lower the prices and don't want to get hit with the customer backlash. Or they could just be saying that so people feel safe pre-ordering and they know that the prices won't change.
| KC | 02-03-2005 12:53 PM |
I'm thinking there are people at Falken right now paying attention to the forums and the backlash so to speak regarding the cost of them.
| omahasubaru | 02-03-2005 02:10 PM |
[QUOTE=driggity]As pointed out in the wheels/tire forum its interesting that Vulcan tire is offering a 30 day price protection on all pre-orders. Almost as though they think that Falken may lower the prices and don't want to get hit with the customer backlash. Or they could just be saying that so people feel safe pre-ordering and they know that the prices won't change.[/QUOTE]
If you re-read it, they're only protecting the prices if they go up. Not the other direction is how I read it. So if the price drops, you'll still pay the current price. I'll wait.
Actually, I've decided to find a co-driver and let them pay for the tires! :D
If you re-read it, they're only protecting the prices if they go up. Not the other direction is how I read it. So if the price drops, you'll still pay the current price. I'll wait.
Actually, I've decided to find a co-driver and let them pay for the tires! :D
| fliz | 02-03-2005 02:32 PM |
[QUOTE=omahasubaru]If you re-read it, they're only protecting the prices if they go up. Not the other direction is how I read it. So if the price drops, you'll still pay the current price. I'll wait.
[/QUOTE]
No, you're protected if the price drops...as I posted in T&W. The only catch is you have to check the website and notify them that they changed their price.
[quote=VulcanTire]A note on RT-615 pricing. You probably have noticed that the RT-615 is priced significantly higher than the older RT-215 (Azenis Sport). We assure you this is not an attempt to gouge our fellow auto enthusiasts. These tires are marked-up using our standard, value-minded Falken markup. Falken Tire Co. has chosen to set the price point much higher on this new tire.
30 DAY PRICE PROTECTION ON ANY PREORDER OF THE RT-615!
For a period of 30 days from the date of purchase if we lower our price on the RT-615 you ordered we will refund you 100% of the difference between the lower price and your original purchase price of the tire. To take advantage of the price protection, simply email us if you find we have lowered the price on the tire you purchased.[/quote]
[/QUOTE]
No, you're protected if the price drops...as I posted in T&W. The only catch is you have to check the website and notify them that they changed their price.
[quote=VulcanTire]A note on RT-615 pricing. You probably have noticed that the RT-615 is priced significantly higher than the older RT-215 (Azenis Sport). We assure you this is not an attempt to gouge our fellow auto enthusiasts. These tires are marked-up using our standard, value-minded Falken markup. Falken Tire Co. has chosen to set the price point much higher on this new tire.
30 DAY PRICE PROTECTION ON ANY PREORDER OF THE RT-615!
For a period of 30 days from the date of purchase if we lower our price on the RT-615 you ordered we will refund you 100% of the difference between the lower price and your original purchase price of the tire. To take advantage of the price protection, simply email us if you find we have lowered the price on the tire you purchased.[/quote]
| merlot | 02-03-2005 02:46 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]I'm thinking there are people at Falken right now paying attention to the forums and the backlash so to speak regarding the cost of them.[/QUOTE]
Hopefully regarding the limited sizes in 16" as well. Seriously, one friggin size! What the hell were they thinking? :furious:
Hopefully regarding the limited sizes in 16" as well. Seriously, one friggin size! What the hell were they thinking? :furious:
| BriDrive | 02-03-2005 03:31 PM |
Hey with pricing like this it makes me start to consider the Michelin pilot sport PS2...that were being offered at tirerack a couple weeks ago for $160 per for a 225/45/17............(street tire class of course)..........
BriDrive
BriDrive
| KC | 02-03-2005 03:42 PM |
Whoa... those tires, as a street tire, would be more expensive than the same size in Hoosier for me.
Hoosiers aren't looking as bad right now!
Hoosiers aren't looking as bad right now!
| BriDrive | 02-03-2005 04:14 PM |
I'm interpreting the original post as this: new falken rt 615 in a 225/45/17 will run approximately $150 per tire.
The rt215 was an excellent ST class auto-x tire...but further, it was CHEAP!
I could be wrong, of course, but I think the rt615 might shoot them in the foot a bit from a sales standpoint, due to the other options an end user might consider at that price point..............unless the rt 615 is really going to be THAT good.............
Locally, I guy or gal who normally runs STX might just decide to run SM now on stickier DOT r compounds for the same kind of money........and do quite well...locally.
STX guys locally (buccaneer region) are within a gnats bum of SM in raw times already...and we are running relatively weak 225 rt215's compared to SM options....
BriDrive
The rt215 was an excellent ST class auto-x tire...but further, it was CHEAP!
I could be wrong, of course, but I think the rt615 might shoot them in the foot a bit from a sales standpoint, due to the other options an end user might consider at that price point..............unless the rt 615 is really going to be THAT good.............
Locally, I guy or gal who normally runs STX might just decide to run SM now on stickier DOT r compounds for the same kind of money........and do quite well...locally.
STX guys locally (buccaneer region) are within a gnats bum of SM in raw times already...and we are running relatively weak 225 rt215's compared to SM options....
BriDrive
| Protege Menace | 02-03-2005 09:42 PM |
crap, maybe i should buy 2 more of the old tires.
my 2 fronts are like half worn down with the rears maybe 3/4ths, or i could swap fronts for rears, but one of myr ear rims has a slight bend and the tire guy said only sue it for the right rear tire :X
do they even HAVE any of the old tires left? I'd like to buy some more while they are still around/cheap
my 2 fronts are like half worn down with the rears maybe 3/4ths, or i could swap fronts for rears, but one of myr ear rims has a slight bend and the tire guy said only sue it for the right rear tire :X
do they even HAVE any of the old tires left? I'd like to buy some more while they are still around/cheap
| Apex Rex | 02-03-2005 11:14 PM |
Not even available in the size I want... 245/40/17....
Oh well, those MXs are looking rather nice at $129 a piece at tirerack right now...
Oh well, those MXs are looking rather nice at $129 a piece at tirerack right now...
| afpdl | 02-04-2005 03:24 AM |
[QUOTE=Protege Menace]do they even HAVE any of the old tires left? I'd like to buy some more while they are still around/cheap[/QUOTE]
I just got some 245s a couple of days ago, there are still some around but if you want some I woudlnt wait around.
I just got some 245s a couple of days ago, there are still some around but if you want some I woudlnt wait around.
| WRX450 | 02-04-2005 10:54 AM |
well...
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Guess I'm glad I bought the S-03s then - 235/40/17 for $600 delivered. Too bad Falken isn't keeping the price down, but you gotta admit - they were probably priced them too low before (not for us, but for them to make the money they want...)
my thoughts...
C.
my thoughts...
C.
| trhoppe | 02-04-2005 12:12 PM |
So let me see. You guys are complaining about paying $150 a tire for a super sticky street tire that will work well in the dry, the rain, that will also last through street driving and over 150 autox runs AND is the best "overall" autox tire?
Yea, mmkay :wavingkitty:
-Tom
whose tires this season are $250 a pop and will last 50-60 runs
Yea, mmkay :wavingkitty:
-Tom
whose tires this season are $250 a pop and will last 50-60 runs
| BriDrive | 02-04-2005 12:32 PM |
Nooooooo..................not really...............just accustomed to rt215 steal.........
Oh...and you get no sympathy :lol:
You're nationally "payin ta play".....................
rt615 is still reasonable and afordable.......and still a decent deal frankly....
Oh...and you get no sympathy :lol:
You're nationally "payin ta play".....................
rt615 is still reasonable and afordable.......and still a decent deal frankly....
| forced4 | 02-04-2005 12:35 PM |
Tom you are sponsored. ;) That takes some of the pain away :lol:
| trhoppe | 02-04-2005 12:37 PM |
I'm not looking for sympathy :lol: Just throwing out a data point. Plus the "sponsorships" don't really lessen the pain too much. At least not right now. An ESP build costs $$$$$$
-Tom
-Tom
| suprajay | 02-04-2005 12:40 PM |
For an '05 STI with 8" wide wheels - why not run the 255/40x17" at $152 each? Overall diameter is a tad taller than 225/45 -but 30mm wider...Jay B in AZ
| trhoppe | 02-04-2005 12:49 PM |
No legal for STU
-Tom
-Tom
| KC | 02-04-2005 12:54 PM |
[QUOTE=suprajay]For an '05 STI with 8" wide wheels - why not run the 255/40x17" at $152 each? Overall diameter is a tad taller than 225/45 -but 30mm wider...Jay B in AZ[/QUOTE]
AWD cars in STU must run 245 or lower.
2wd can run 275s or lower.
AWD cars in STU must run 245 or lower.
2wd can run 275s or lower.
| driggity | 02-04-2005 01:15 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]So let me see. You guys are complaining about paying $150 a tire for a super sticky street tire that will work well in the dry, the rain, that will also last through street driving and over 150 autox runs AND is the best "overall" autox tire?[/QUOTE]
So people have already been running these tires for a while then?
So people have already been running these tires for a while then?
| trhoppe | 02-04-2005 01:16 PM |
I'm assuming that they will at least be as good as the previous gen Azenis ;)
-Tom
-Tom
| p1driftfiend | 02-04-2005 03:35 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]So let me see. You guys are complaining about paying $150 a tire for a super sticky street tire that will work well in the dry, the rain, that will also last through street driving and over 150 autox runs AND is the best "overall" autox tire?
[/QUOTE]
The old Azenis are absolutely fine, even great, in the wet and I don't think the new ones will last 25% more than the original ones. I saw nothing wrong with the older style and no need to improve them.
I use 195/60/14's for my 1990 Civic Si, and paid $43 per tire last year, the new ones are now $78. No thank you Falken :mad:
[/QUOTE]
The old Azenis are absolutely fine, even great, in the wet and I don't think the new ones will last 25% more than the original ones. I saw nothing wrong with the older style and no need to improve them.
I use 195/60/14's for my 1990 Civic Si, and paid $43 per tire last year, the new ones are now $78. No thank you Falken :mad:
| trhoppe | 02-04-2005 04:01 PM |
[img]http://www.tomhoppe.com/misc%20pics/waaahmbulance.jpg[/img]
-Tom
-Tom
| Georgethefierce | 02-04-2005 04:26 PM |
[QUOTE=p1driftfiend]The old Azenis are absolutely fine, even great, in the wet and I don't think the new ones will last 25% more than the original ones. I saw nothing wrong with the older style and no need to improve them.
I use 195/60/14's for my 1990 Civic Si, and paid $43 per tire last year, the new ones are now $78. No thank you Falken :mad:[/QUOTE]
you're bitching about $78 a tire??????????
:lol: even tires for the Miata are more than that
I use 195/60/14's for my 1990 Civic Si, and paid $43 per tire last year, the new ones are now $78. No thank you Falken :mad:[/QUOTE]
you're bitching about $78 a tire??????????
:lol: even tires for the Miata are more than that
| Butt Dyno | 02-04-2005 04:46 PM |
*patiently awaiting the do-they-get-greasy-and-useless test*
| Apex Rex | 02-04-2005 05:00 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe][img]http://www.tomhoppe.com/misc%20pics/waaahmbulance.jpg[/img]
-Tom[/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol:
:banana: :banana:
That pic is awesome.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol:
:banana: :banana:
That pic is awesome.
| suprajay | 02-04-2005 05:33 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]AWD cars in STU must run 245 or lower.
2wd can run 275s or lower.[/QUOTE]
Tom, KC,
Forgot about STU with 245 max.. I'm in ESP in a local street tire class.. There is no participation in STU so many of us STIs are running ESP (I have Cusco camber plates so tossed out of AS anyway).
Jay B in Az
2wd can run 275s or lower.[/QUOTE]
Tom, KC,
Forgot about STU with 245 max.. I'm in ESP in a local street tire class.. There is no participation in STU so many of us STIs are running ESP (I have Cusco camber plates so tossed out of AS anyway).
Jay B in Az
| afpdl | 02-04-2005 05:35 PM |
Wait if MANY of you STis are running esp because there is no STU particpation couldnt you all run STU and give it some participation?
| mykrrrr | 02-04-2005 05:35 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]I'm thinking there are people at Falken right now paying attention to the forums and the backlash so to speak regarding the cost of them.[/QUOTE]
If the people @ Falken were [b]REALLY[/b] paying attention, they'd have kept the selection of 16" sizes the same as the 215's or better yet...increased them.
:rolleyes: @ Falken. :(
-mykr.
If the people @ Falken were [b]REALLY[/b] paying attention, they'd have kept the selection of 16" sizes the same as the 215's or better yet...increased them.
:rolleyes: @ Falken. :(
-mykr.
| WRX_Mundi | 02-04-2005 05:39 PM |
[QUOTE=Georgethefierce]you're bitching about $78 a tire??????????
:lol: even tires for the Miata are more than that[/QUOTE]Annoying how cheap those little tires are, isn't it. My stock '96 Miata with 14" rims was able to run a set of Azenis that cost me $204 for the full set including shipping! They lasted 250 runs too (including a lot of novice boneheaded driving). For the STi the same Azenis (17" instead of 14") are almost $500 and last about half as long; race tires are more yet and last even fewer runs. It still looks to me like the top R compounds like Hoosiers / V710s will cost twice as much or more than the new Falkens once you factor in the grip life.
:lol: even tires for the Miata are more than that[/QUOTE]Annoying how cheap those little tires are, isn't it. My stock '96 Miata with 14" rims was able to run a set of Azenis that cost me $204 for the full set including shipping! They lasted 250 runs too (including a lot of novice boneheaded driving). For the STi the same Azenis (17" instead of 14") are almost $500 and last about half as long; race tires are more yet and last even fewer runs. It still looks to me like the top R compounds like Hoosiers / V710s will cost twice as much or more than the new Falkens once you factor in the grip life.
| AlpineFD | 02-04-2005 09:51 PM |
Blah, so much for the new rt615 compound :( I'll be ordering another set of rt215 soon.
| omahasubaru | 02-05-2005 12:06 PM |
[QUOTE=mykrrrr]If the people @ Falken were [b]REALLY[/b] paying attention, they'd have kept the selection of 16" sizes the same as the 215's or better yet...increased them.
:rolleyes: @ Falken. :(
-mykr.[/QUOTE]
Yes a 225/45-16 and a 245/40-16 would have been nice to see for the STS/STX crowd.
:rolleyes: @ Falken. :(
-mykr.[/QUOTE]
Yes a 225/45-16 and a 245/40-16 would have been nice to see for the STS/STX crowd.
| mykrrrr | 02-05-2005 04:39 PM |
[QUOTE=omahasubaru]Yes a 225/45-16 and a 245/40-16 would have been nice to see for the STS/STX crowd.[/QUOTE]
I would have liked a 225/50/16 since it's close to a 205/55/16 in overall dimensions.
I would have liked a 225/50/16 since it's close to a 205/55/16 in overall dimensions.
| mykrrrr | 02-05-2005 04:40 PM |
double post...oops. :huh:
-mykr.
-mykr.
| suprajay | 02-06-2005 12:43 AM |
[QUOTE=afpdl]Wait if MANY of you STis are running esp because there is no STU particpation couldnt you all run STU and give it some participation?[/QUOTE]
We could.. but what fun if only STIs...There is a fast and experienced M3 that I'm targeting..Jay B in AZ
We could.. but what fun if only STIs...There is a fast and experienced M3 that I'm targeting..Jay B in AZ
| AUTOwrXER | 02-06-2005 10:42 PM |
[QUOTE=WRX_Mundi]It still looks to me like the top R compounds like Hoosiers / V710s will cost twice as much or more than the new Falkens once you factor in the grip life.[/QUOTE]
It's much more than that. The Hoosiers are good for about 40 runs before they go off. That's the cost of chasing the last half second, hence the reason you shouldn't spend the money until you're close to the leaders.
It's much more than that. The Hoosiers are good for about 40 runs before they go off. That's the cost of chasing the last half second, hence the reason you shouldn't spend the money until you're close to the leaders.
| forced4 | 02-07-2005 11:49 AM |
I just broke down and ordered some new "old" Azenis Sports :D
| PKer | 02-07-2005 01:58 PM |
So how do they work?
| afpdl | 02-07-2005 02:00 PM |
how do what work? Its a preorder.
| Smittys_STi | 02-07-2005 02:17 PM |
now I'm glad I went out and got a set of used RE070's ... much higher prices than I thought they would be. Let's hope they come down some.
| krzyray | 02-07-2005 02:25 PM |
Are places going to continue to sell the old Azenis until they run out?
I don't have budget for spending for new Azenis. I guess I should buy some old Azenis before they run out.
I mean how much of a performance difference is it in the dry, going from the old azenis to the new one. I understand the wet will be big change, but I don't drive fast when it's wet so I only care about dry :)
I don't have budget for spending for new Azenis. I guess I should buy some old Azenis before they run out.
I mean how much of a performance difference is it in the dry, going from the old azenis to the new one. I understand the wet will be big change, but I don't drive fast when it's wet so I only care about dry :)
| WRX_Mundi | 02-07-2005 03:45 PM |
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]It's much more than that. The Hoosiers are good for about 40 runs before they go off. That's the cost of chasing the last half second, hence the reason you shouldn't spend the money until you're close to the leaders.[/QUOTE]I was being generous (actually I think I got almost 60 runs with 15 heat cycles out of mine). I was starting to get the feeling that people were thinking competitive R-compounds might be the same or cheaper. I got a lot of replies on an sccaforums thread that said tires for ST* were as or more expensive than R compounds. :huh: I suppose they know, but I can't make the logic work out. Maybe if you're going shaved FK-451s that only last a short while and don't ever street drive them. But for local competition the street tires cost less and last longer.
| AUTOwrXER | 02-07-2005 05:18 PM |
Yeah; that sort of thinking was common for a while, but it doesn't make sense. Street tires are still much cheaper. Even if you are buying multiple sets for dry, wet, and intermediate competition, the tires themselves still last much longer and are usually cheaper to boot.
| PKer | 02-07-2005 07:41 PM |
[QUOTE=afpdl]how do what work? Its a preorder.[/QUOTE]
Reading comprehension ownz me!
:o
Reading comprehension ownz me!
:o
| Bootleg | 02-08-2005 11:36 AM |
ok, for all you guys who want azenis in 16" wheels but you want it as wide as possible, here's your answer. the falken fk-451 come in a wide range of sizes and best of all, they have two rubber compounds. the first is the standard 280 treadwear rating but once you get them down to about 40%-30% of treadlife, you get the azenis compound. get a set, have them shaved and bam, you've got yourself a set in a 225 width. they've worked great for me and this advise comes from the STX national champ. hope this helps.
| KC | 02-08-2005 11:38 AM |
[QUOTE=Bootleg]and this advise comes from the STX national champ. hope this helps.[/QUOTE]
Does it Tom? :)
--kC
Does it Tom? :)
--kC
| trhoppe | 02-08-2005 11:43 AM |
Well, if you read back through the motorsports threads, you'll notice that originally that was what we thought, but Josh confirmed that its a slightly different compound. The stiffer sidewall, the gearing, and the lack of tread squirm + the good compound all come together to make it a much faster tire.
Having said that, they last for around 30 runs shaved.
-Tom
Having said that, they last for around 30 runs shaved.
-Tom
| DrBiggly | 02-08-2005 12:02 PM |
Yeah, they don't exactly last a long time. However, the gearing is the most significant part of those tires IMO. :)
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