| Davenow | 12-14-2003 12:09 PM |
Rate my SM setup :)
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02 wrx
TurboXS stage 4 TMIC (vf22, yeah I know, but trust me, its NOT laggy. I hit 15PSI by 3200 RPM, stock doesnt do that, 20PSI before 4000 rpm. 309 WHP)
Tein FLex coilovers, 7k springs all around
22mm sway bars front and rear, rear can be adjusted to 24, but I keep it at 22.
Whiteline ALK motorsports
WHiteline diff lock bolts, and bushings
Rota Slipstreams (13lbs) 16x7 with Hoosiers unsure on size, havent ordered them yet
Axis ultimate pads all around. May replace with Carbotech, these ultimates are sensative to stabbing, they grab much better with slow application.
WIll have car competition aligned and corner weighted in spring, will be setting ride height so the arms are JUST past level (on the lower side)
ABout 50lbs of misc crap removed from the car, WIll be taking back seats out and whatever else I can according to the rulebook. FIgure about 100lbs total off the car, not counting weight savings from lighter exh etc...
The car has a factory body kit (not the satndard one, this is a New england only package, RW2) The front lip makes the front endllike 2 inches wider, this is coming off, same with the rear lip, it makes the back bumper hang a bit lower and wider, so its coming off.
Oh and a 4 pt harness :) I think thats everything.
Any recommendations?
TurboXS stage 4 TMIC (vf22, yeah I know, but trust me, its NOT laggy. I hit 15PSI by 3200 RPM, stock doesnt do that, 20PSI before 4000 rpm. 309 WHP)
Tein FLex coilovers, 7k springs all around
22mm sway bars front and rear, rear can be adjusted to 24, but I keep it at 22.
Whiteline ALK motorsports
WHiteline diff lock bolts, and bushings
Rota Slipstreams (13lbs) 16x7 with Hoosiers unsure on size, havent ordered them yet
Axis ultimate pads all around. May replace with Carbotech, these ultimates are sensative to stabbing, they grab much better with slow application.
WIll have car competition aligned and corner weighted in spring, will be setting ride height so the arms are JUST past level (on the lower side)
ABout 50lbs of misc crap removed from the car, WIll be taking back seats out and whatever else I can according to the rulebook. FIgure about 100lbs total off the car, not counting weight savings from lighter exh etc...
The car has a factory body kit (not the satndard one, this is a New england only package, RW2) The front lip makes the front endllike 2 inches wider, this is coming off, same with the rear lip, it makes the back bumper hang a bit lower and wider, so its coming off.
Oh and a 4 pt harness :) I think thats everything.
Any recommendations?
| angryfist | 12-14-2003 12:59 PM |
sounds like you have a decent setup going for you.
if i were running SM i would get the widest tire i could possibly fit so 245/40/17's on a 17x8.5 wheel. also i would change the rear sway bar to 24mm and change your spring rates to something in the general area of 8Kg(F)/10Kg(R). and make sure you run max camber at autox.
also save as much weight as possible within the rules. get race buckets to save more weight (~60 lbs. savings). in the extreme case remove a/c.
these are just my recommendations but i think you have a decent start.
if i were running SM i would get the widest tire i could possibly fit so 245/40/17's on a 17x8.5 wheel. also i would change the rear sway bar to 24mm and change your spring rates to something in the general area of 8Kg(F)/10Kg(R). and make sure you run max camber at autox.
also save as much weight as possible within the rules. get race buckets to save more weight (~60 lbs. savings). in the extreme case remove a/c.
these are just my recommendations but i think you have a decent start.
| ellisnc | 12-14-2003 01:11 PM |
more tire, at least 245's
less weight, my car is 2800 pounds to give you a target.
That suspension you chose isn't that great either... personally I wouldn't buy anything in the Tein line below the RA which is an inverted damper for stiffness.
oh yeah... and a new transmission when you break that one.
less weight, my car is 2800 pounds to give you a target.
That suspension you chose isn't that great either... personally I wouldn't buy anything in the Tein line below the RA which is an inverted damper for stiffness.
oh yeah... and a new transmission when you break that one.
| dwx | 12-14-2003 01:30 PM |
SM is a good class because it allows you to do all of that stuff and still have a class to play in. Here is my current SM list. I fired up the car for the first time in 3 months last night. I'm looking to run 265/45/16 Kuhmo 710s next year probably, since they make them in that size. I ran 245/45/16 Kuhmos last year. Either that or 245/45/16 Hoosiers. Of course no matter what kind of buildup you have, the driver is still the most important, especially with the buildups of SM.
All you can really do weight wise is replace stock parts with lighter ones, there isn't a whole lot you can replace. Replacing the seats with race ones will save you around 40 lbs. My car is somewhere in the 2950 range, but it's with the 6MT which is alot heavier than the 5MT. There is nothing else I could remove from the car and still be legal in SM.
16x8 Volk Gram Lights
Tanabe Sustec Pro RR Coilovers (12kF/10kR) w/ fr&rear camber plates
Cusco CF rear strut bar
Cusco OS front strut bar
Cusco Type II front underbrace
Cusco adj. rear swaybar
Cusco 21mm front swaybar
STI rear trailing links
Subaru AL front control arms
Whiteline race ALK
MRT adj rear control arms
Perrin rear endlinks
Subaru 4-pot front calipers, SBS ProTrack pads
iON 2-piece front rotors
Subaru H6 rear rotor upgrade
Goodridge stainless lines
Various GrpN mounts/bushings that are legal for SM
Engine/Drivetrain:
2.5L STI block/Version 8 RA heads, V7 ECU w/AVCS hooked up
PE1818F turbo (new style)
TurboXS UTEC
APS DR500 FMIC black
APS Race Fuel Rail Kit
PE650 Injectors
Walbro fuel pump
Samco turbo inlet hoses
Samco radiator hoses
Borla header
TurboXS Turboback exhaust
Prodrive muffler
STI engine/trans mounts
Perrin short ram intake
Vishnu uppipe
Vishnu crank pulley
STI RA 6-speed transmission, w/6MT short shifter
Ripped out AC/Cruise control
Aquamist water injection system
Other:
Sparco Prodrive race seats
Cascade autosports harness bar
Autopower harnesses
All you can really do weight wise is replace stock parts with lighter ones, there isn't a whole lot you can replace. Replacing the seats with race ones will save you around 40 lbs. My car is somewhere in the 2950 range, but it's with the 6MT which is alot heavier than the 5MT. There is nothing else I could remove from the car and still be legal in SM.
16x8 Volk Gram Lights
Tanabe Sustec Pro RR Coilovers (12kF/10kR) w/ fr&rear camber plates
Cusco CF rear strut bar
Cusco OS front strut bar
Cusco Type II front underbrace
Cusco adj. rear swaybar
Cusco 21mm front swaybar
STI rear trailing links
Subaru AL front control arms
Whiteline race ALK
MRT adj rear control arms
Perrin rear endlinks
Subaru 4-pot front calipers, SBS ProTrack pads
iON 2-piece front rotors
Subaru H6 rear rotor upgrade
Goodridge stainless lines
Various GrpN mounts/bushings that are legal for SM
Engine/Drivetrain:
2.5L STI block/Version 8 RA heads, V7 ECU w/AVCS hooked up
PE1818F turbo (new style)
TurboXS UTEC
APS DR500 FMIC black
APS Race Fuel Rail Kit
PE650 Injectors
Walbro fuel pump
Samco turbo inlet hoses
Samco radiator hoses
Borla header
TurboXS Turboback exhaust
Prodrive muffler
STI engine/trans mounts
Perrin short ram intake
Vishnu uppipe
Vishnu crank pulley
STI RA 6-speed transmission, w/6MT short shifter
Ripped out AC/Cruise control
Aquamist water injection system
Other:
Sparco Prodrive race seats
Cascade autosports harness bar
Autopower harnesses
| virpacalis | 12-14-2003 01:34 PM |
I thought ALK isn't allowed in SM.
| mlambert | 12-14-2003 01:36 PM |
DWX, you have one of the nicest lists of mods I've ever seen on here. Talk about doing it right!
| dwx | 12-14-2003 01:48 PM |
ALK was made legal late last year. The Cusco underbrace is not, I sometimes leave it on for local stuff where everything is pretty laxed and take it off for larger events.
| ellisnc | 12-14-2003 02:24 PM |
Technically the RA heads aren't really legal either I don't think since they weren't available in this country right or can you do whatever the heck you want with the heads?
Here's a list of things you can probably legally remove/replace for weight down in SM.
Remove:
A/C - everything
stereo - everything
rear seat
seatbelts - if they're facilitating installation of harnesses (believe Conebasher had this done although the legality is somewhat debatable.
passenger SRS??
Replace:
Exhaust
Seats - fixed back
Brakes - stoptechs are lighter than stock I believe
Suspension - marginally lighter if at all
steering wheel
that's all I can think of at the moment
Here's a list of things you can probably legally remove/replace for weight down in SM.
Remove:
A/C - everything
stereo - everything
rear seat
seatbelts - if they're facilitating installation of harnesses (believe Conebasher had this done although the legality is somewhat debatable.
passenger SRS??
Replace:
Exhaust
Seats - fixed back
Brakes - stoptechs are lighter than stock I believe
Suspension - marginally lighter if at all
steering wheel
that's all I can think of at the moment
| Kostamojen | 12-14-2003 05:32 PM |
When I get my turbo kit ill own your setup in SM :D :p (J/K, well, maybe not, I dont know, LOL!)
| dwx | 12-14-2003 08:13 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ellisnc [/i]
[B]Technically the RA heads aren't really legal either I don't think since they weren't available in this country right or can you do whatever the heck you want with the heads?
Here's a list of things you can probably legally remove/replace for weight down in SM.
Remove:
A/C - everything
stereo - everything
rear seat
seatbelts - if they're facilitating installation of harnesses (believe Conebasher had this done although the legality is somewhat debatable.
passenger SRS??
Replace:
Exhaust
Seats - fixed back
Brakes - stoptechs are lighter than stock I believe
Suspension - marginally lighter if at all
steering wheel
that's all I can think of at the moment [/B][/QUOTE]
Drivetrain is completely unrestricted and has no boundaries as far as origin of the drivetrain parts. The engine block has to be from the same make as the car, but it also doesn't have to be from this country. Please make sure you know the rules before you think something may or may not be legal.
The 2004 rules will have a provision to just get rid of the rear seatbelts altogether.
Kostamojen, I'll race your 1.8L turbo or not, any time. :D If I wasn't building the LX into a rally car, I'd consider making it an SM monster built up similarly to my WRX.
[B]Technically the RA heads aren't really legal either I don't think since they weren't available in this country right or can you do whatever the heck you want with the heads?
Here's a list of things you can probably legally remove/replace for weight down in SM.
Remove:
A/C - everything
stereo - everything
rear seat
seatbelts - if they're facilitating installation of harnesses (believe Conebasher had this done although the legality is somewhat debatable.
passenger SRS??
Replace:
Exhaust
Seats - fixed back
Brakes - stoptechs are lighter than stock I believe
Suspension - marginally lighter if at all
steering wheel
that's all I can think of at the moment [/B][/QUOTE]
Drivetrain is completely unrestricted and has no boundaries as far as origin of the drivetrain parts. The engine block has to be from the same make as the car, but it also doesn't have to be from this country. Please make sure you know the rules before you think something may or may not be legal.
The 2004 rules will have a provision to just get rid of the rear seatbelts altogether.
Kostamojen, I'll race your 1.8L turbo or not, any time. :D If I wasn't building the LX into a rally car, I'd consider making it an SM monster built up similarly to my WRX.
| WRX-ECE | 12-14-2003 10:08 PM |
My suggestions:
Lose the Flex for RAs
get an STi RA gearset installed
Move the bar to 24mm
Think twice about the height of the car. Mine is damn near parallel and I don't think it's the best way to go. I think the camber curve of the suspension is bad at that point. Plus, with the race tires on I can barely get a jack under the car.
Lose the Flex for RAs
get an STi RA gearset installed
Move the bar to 24mm
Think twice about the height of the car. Mine is damn near parallel and I don't think it's the best way to go. I think the camber curve of the suspension is bad at that point. Plus, with the race tires on I can barely get a jack under the car.
| Davenow | 12-14-2003 10:17 PM |
ok I forgot to mention that I am NOT going to an RA gearset. Maybe in a year or two IF I keep the car.
How streetable are RA's?
I am on JIC FLT-A2 coilovers now, with 8/6k springs, and they are shot. How is the ride quality compared between RA's and the JICs??
How streetable are RA's?
I am on JIC FLT-A2 coilovers now, with 8/6k springs, and they are shot. How is the ride quality compared between RA's and the JICs??
| KC | 12-14-2003 10:25 PM |
RAs are very streetable in my Wagon. :) (did ya check your PMs?)
| WRX-ECE | 12-14-2003 10:44 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Davenow [/i]
[B]ok I forgot to mention that I am NOT going to an RA gearset. Maybe in a year or two IF I keep the car.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Well, a friend of mine said the same untill he went through two trannies in a year (he was making 300+ WHP too)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Davenow [/i]
[B]How streetable are RA's?
I am on JIC FLT-A2 coilovers now, with 8/6k springs, and they are shot. How is the ride quality compared between RA's and the JICs?? [/B][/QUOTE]
I would say that they are really good on the street. Another friend of mine who has GC RAs commented that he thought his car felt better on the street then mine (with Flexes). I know it's not apples to apples but that's what he said. My friend with the WRX I mentioned above had RA's and loved them on the street.
If doing well means more then your street comfort I would go with the RA. I went with the Flex b/c the car was still my only ride at the time. Now with a second car and the WRX being more and more only for Auto-x I wish I had gotten the RAs instead.
Plus teh RAs are KC approved!!!
Jeremy
[B]ok I forgot to mention that I am NOT going to an RA gearset. Maybe in a year or two IF I keep the car.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Well, a friend of mine said the same untill he went through two trannies in a year (he was making 300+ WHP too)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Davenow [/i]
[B]How streetable are RA's?
I am on JIC FLT-A2 coilovers now, with 8/6k springs, and they are shot. How is the ride quality compared between RA's and the JICs?? [/B][/QUOTE]
I would say that they are really good on the street. Another friend of mine who has GC RAs commented that he thought his car felt better on the street then mine (with Flexes). I know it's not apples to apples but that's what he said. My friend with the WRX I mentioned above had RA's and loved them on the street.
If doing well means more then your street comfort I would go with the RA. I went with the Flex b/c the car was still my only ride at the time. Now with a second car and the WRX being more and more only for Auto-x I wish I had gotten the RAs instead.
Plus teh RAs are KC approved!!!
Jeremy
| Davenow | 12-14-2003 10:59 PM |
Funny how ppl guarantee the tranny will go yet there are a bunch of guys driving around making over 300whp for tons of miles and they hold fine.
Moral of the story? Its how you shift.
BTW I am now planning on trying to sell the FLEX's and buy RA's
Anyone want a set of -lightly (look almost new, 1500 miles old) flex's with and extra brand new set of 7k springs, and dust boots?:lol: (seriously if you want them lemme know :) )
Moral of the story? Its how you shift.
BTW I am now planning on trying to sell the FLEX's and buy RA's
Anyone want a set of -lightly (look almost new, 1500 miles old) flex's with and extra brand new set of 7k springs, and dust boots?:lol: (seriously if you want them lemme know :) )
| MNbiker | 12-15-2003 01:36 AM |
Lots of good advice in this thread. Something I'm surprised no one has mentioned is a front diff (Quaife would be my pick). It can make a real difference coming out of corners.
And I'll reinforce the value of wider tires. Personally, I think WRX's/STi's will eventually need to cut out the fenders (ouch!) or have custom flares built to run enough tire for SP/SM at a National level. Competitive cars of similar heft are commonly running 275 Hoosiers, which simply aren't going to fit under the stock fenders.
-Steve
And I'll reinforce the value of wider tires. Personally, I think WRX's/STi's will eventually need to cut out the fenders (ouch!) or have custom flares built to run enough tire for SP/SM at a National level. Competitive cars of similar heft are commonly running 275 Hoosiers, which simply aren't going to fit under the stock fenders.
-Steve
| Davenow | 12-15-2003 06:31 AM |
mmmmm widebody kit:devil:
Is a widebody kit legal for SM?
Is a widebody kit legal for SM?
| ellisnc | 12-15-2003 06:59 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dwx [/i]
[B] Please make sure you know the rules before you think something may or may not be legal.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Hence the question mark after the sentence. ;)
I run in SM but I also run on the track so I like the reliability of the stock engine with a few exhaust upgrades and like the IC pipes or whatever. Therefore, I don't know the engine rules in the class that well. I knew you were pretty unrestricted. The only reason I'd want to build an engine is if I were going to national events and even then you're going to get schooled by the M3's. I have an S2000 which is a far better autocross car to drive anyway.
I believe the suspension rules say unrestricted as long as they maintain the original attachment points to the body/subframes. So any suspension bushings/bearings are fair game. Maybe not differential bushings though.
Widebodies are legal as long as you use the stock fenders as bases for any extension you do. (i.e. not used for weight reduction)
Just look at Conebasher to find out what you can and can't do. I think about everything that could be done in that class was done to that car. Finshed 6th or in that neighborhood 2 years ago.
[B] Please make sure you know the rules before you think something may or may not be legal.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Hence the question mark after the sentence. ;)
I run in SM but I also run on the track so I like the reliability of the stock engine with a few exhaust upgrades and like the IC pipes or whatever. Therefore, I don't know the engine rules in the class that well. I knew you were pretty unrestricted. The only reason I'd want to build an engine is if I were going to national events and even then you're going to get schooled by the M3's. I have an S2000 which is a far better autocross car to drive anyway.
I believe the suspension rules say unrestricted as long as they maintain the original attachment points to the body/subframes. So any suspension bushings/bearings are fair game. Maybe not differential bushings though.
Widebodies are legal as long as you use the stock fenders as bases for any extension you do. (i.e. not used for weight reduction)
Just look at Conebasher to find out what you can and can't do. I think about everything that could be done in that class was done to that car. Finshed 6th or in that neighborhood 2 years ago.
| angryfist | 12-15-2003 09:31 AM |
what steve said... if i had lots of money lying around i would get new LSD's. i think cusco makes a center LSD that is like 40/60 rear biased. that would be kinda cool.
| angryfist | 12-15-2003 09:36 AM |
if your looking for a set of RA's call Dan at [url]www.godspeedinc.com[/url] he'll match whatever price you find and get you the spring combo you want. Tell him I sent you. i got mine from him at a good price.
-Jason
-Jason
| dwx | 12-15-2003 09:51 AM |
When and if I get really ambitious I'd like to do the 65/35 Cusco center LSD and put in a better rear LSD to go along with it. R180 most likely because I think the smaller R160 stuff would probably break after awhile. Probably whenever the current clutch wears out, I'm hoping that's not for at least a little while.
I was going to go with the RAs but the a deal for these Tanabe Sustec RRs came up. I won't have them on the car until the summer so I can't really comment on them. I would take the RAs over the FLT-A2s any day, I think they are in a different class as far as shocks go. I loved my DMS50s but I just drive the car too much and the rebuilding of them every so often is a pain.
I don't think wide wide tires is the end-all be-all for SM. If I can fit the 265/45/16 710s on the 16x8 wheels I will run them next year though.
The gimmie gears widebody kit would be legal I think, as it replaces the front fenders (which is legal) but I think the rears are just grafted onto the existing quarter panel. You could then hack away at the old one to make things fit, and it wouldn't look like ass.
While you can run some power through the stock WRX gearbox, depending on how you drive, the gearing sucks for autocross, imho. 2nd gear is just too long and with the bigger turbo you'll find yourself more and more in turbo lag. Convert to a 4.44 final drive or install the RA gearset and the car will be alot more fun to drive.
I was going to go with the RAs but the a deal for these Tanabe Sustec RRs came up. I won't have them on the car until the summer so I can't really comment on them. I would take the RAs over the FLT-A2s any day, I think they are in a different class as far as shocks go. I loved my DMS50s but I just drive the car too much and the rebuilding of them every so often is a pain.
I don't think wide wide tires is the end-all be-all for SM. If I can fit the 265/45/16 710s on the 16x8 wheels I will run them next year though.
The gimmie gears widebody kit would be legal I think, as it replaces the front fenders (which is legal) but I think the rears are just grafted onto the existing quarter panel. You could then hack away at the old one to make things fit, and it wouldn't look like ass.
While you can run some power through the stock WRX gearbox, depending on how you drive, the gearing sucks for autocross, imho. 2nd gear is just too long and with the bigger turbo you'll find yourself more and more in turbo lag. Convert to a 4.44 final drive or install the RA gearset and the car will be alot more fun to drive.
| AWMIII | 12-15-2003 09:58 AM |
I personally guarantee that you will blow a stock tranny if you make big low end torque, and you autox seriously. There are autoxers and autoxers. A nationally prepared sm car will blow trannies, diffs, motor mounts, tranny mounts and clutches if it it is run on hoosiers seriously. It will break one of those things eventually. When you least expect it, you will be relacing/upgrading something. Axels, lug nuts, struts, head gaskets, seats, wheel bearings, swaybar mounts, and the thinghy at the end of the axel will one by one need to be relaced in adition to the above major items. The RA tranny is really the only way to go for a national sm car. The 6 speed is too heavy and a dog box is not smooth enough to shift mid turn without unsettling the car. BTW I would bet that the RA struts are much lighter than the flexes. The flexes are just not enough. I made a major suspension change late in the season that helped a lot. I softened my swaybar. It allowed the car to put down more power coming out of the turns while keeping the car stable.
Oh and lose the vf22 for a vf34 or ideally a vf29. You should also check and see if garret ever got tfeir stuf together for bolt on garret turbos. The 22 just spins up too slowly and while you might make good boost down low, in second gear when you lift and get back on it how long does it take to make peak boost at 2200rpm? The answer is too long with a 2.0 block!
Oh and lose the vf22 for a vf34 or ideally a vf29. You should also check and see if garret ever got tfeir stuf together for bolt on garret turbos. The 22 just spins up too slowly and while you might make good boost down low, in second gear when you lift and get back on it how long does it take to make peak boost at 2200rpm? The answer is too long with a 2.0 block!
| dwx | 12-15-2003 10:39 AM |
I don't think the RA transmission/gearset is all that much stronger than the WRX one, and I would never put it in a nationally prepped SM car. I would get it purely for the gearing but I wouldn't put my faith in it to hold up to a 400+ hp car. I think the Conebasher car would rip threw that gearbox in no time at all, that's why it runs a dogbox. Dogboxes aren't really that bad, if you downshift them correctly it's just as easy to smoothly shift as a synchro box. There usually isn't a whole lot of gear changes being made in autocross, I can count on one hand the amount of times I shifted into 3rd all of last year.
| mlambert | 12-15-2003 03:23 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Davenow[/i]
[B]
Moral of the story? Its how you shift.
[/B][/QUOTE]
How you shift is only part of it. You can shift as gentle as humanly possible and 3rd gear will break right near peak torque. I've seen it happen in the 300-350whp range and with well tuned VF22's (because of their violent scream to full boost once spooled). Dont kid yourself dave, if your car is making real power your 5MT is short lived.
I do think that the RA 5MT gears and a 4.44 final would be great for autoxs as long as it didnt introduce too much shifting.
[B]
Moral of the story? Its how you shift.
[/B][/QUOTE]
How you shift is only part of it. You can shift as gentle as humanly possible and 3rd gear will break right near peak torque. I've seen it happen in the 300-350whp range and with well tuned VF22's (because of their violent scream to full boost once spooled). Dont kid yourself dave, if your car is making real power your 5MT is short lived.
I do think that the RA 5MT gears and a 4.44 final would be great for autoxs as long as it didnt introduce too much shifting.
| AWMIII | 12-15-2003 03:43 PM |
I also kept the 3.90 final drive. I feel that a 4.44 would be too low for a well tuned 2.0. As it was, my car would hit about 64 in 2nd gear iirc. With 4.44s you would be shifting between 2nd and 3rd a lot. On a course like peru, you might even need 4th with big hp and 4.44s. I was un-used to the extreme high speeds out there and never got my car handling correctly out there last summer. I was way up in 3rd twice on the second day. I spent my runs messing with shift points.
| QfactorRS | 12-15-2003 03:58 PM |
I am still building my RS for SM.
But i am going a different route than everyone else, i set some rules to myself to make the challenge even more difficult.
-maintain a conventional Spring/Strut suspension (H&R) for now.
-Street tires, and i wanna stay away from azenis for as long as i can.
So my project is gonna be focused on suspension geometry, light unsprung weight, and light total weight and balance.
one of my big goal for next season is to move the driver seat/steering wheel/pedals about 5 inches back, move as much weight as possible to the center of the car.
Oh and i forgot to add, i have a $600 budget, i wanna fabricate as much as i can.
Q <- Dumb frenchman
But i am going a different route than everyone else, i set some rules to myself to make the challenge even more difficult.
-maintain a conventional Spring/Strut suspension (H&R) for now.
-Street tires, and i wanna stay away from azenis for as long as i can.
So my project is gonna be focused on suspension geometry, light unsprung weight, and light total weight and balance.
one of my big goal for next season is to move the driver seat/steering wheel/pedals about 5 inches back, move as much weight as possible to the center of the car.
Oh and i forgot to add, i have a $600 budget, i wanna fabricate as much as i can.
Q <- Dumb frenchman
| Davenow | 12-15-2003 04:22 PM |
LOL @ Q
Awesome ambition. Nothing like performance on a budget. AutoX is 90% driver anyway.
Awesome ambition. Nothing like performance on a budget. AutoX is 90% driver anyway.
| spidey02wrx | 12-15-2003 04:47 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by QfactorRS [/i]
[B]I am still building my RS for SM.
But i am going a different route than everyone else, i set some rules to myself to make the challenge even more difficult.
-maintain a conventional Spring/Strut suspension (H&R) for now.
-Street tires, and i wanna stay away from azenis for as long as i can.
So my project is gonna be focused on suspension geometry, light unsprung weight, and light total weight and balance.
one of my big goal for next season is to move the driver seat/steering wheel/pedals about 5 inches back, move as much weight as possible to the center of the car.
Oh and i forgot to add, i have a $600 budget, i wanna fabricate as much as i can.
Q <- Dumb frenchman [/B][/QUOTE]
While I applaud your effort especially at trying to go light, there is no way on earth you can do anything in SM on street tires (which by the way azenis are).
davenow:
I have to agree with everyone else and say ditch the flexes for the RA's.
my setup for next season....
pnp'd vf34/aps top mount/etc
full catless exhaust
JIC (10k/10K love the way it handles...no problems for me... yet)
cornerweight-agressive alignment
RA gearset (not sure on the final drive issue)
gutted rear+whatever weight shifting I can do within the rules
roll bar/harnesses/sparco evo
evolution school
It'll be really good locally and get spanked past that, but that's more on me than the car. I was a contender for local SM championships with the stock turbo previously and I have no reason to expect I won't be this year with the new setup. Nats are at least a year or two away from me personally, regardless of the car I'm driving. I wanted some KAAZ diffs with the Cusco center but ran out of $$$. I'm thinking of getting an STS civic anyway, SM is too darn expensive.
[B]I am still building my RS for SM.
But i am going a different route than everyone else, i set some rules to myself to make the challenge even more difficult.
-maintain a conventional Spring/Strut suspension (H&R) for now.
-Street tires, and i wanna stay away from azenis for as long as i can.
So my project is gonna be focused on suspension geometry, light unsprung weight, and light total weight and balance.
one of my big goal for next season is to move the driver seat/steering wheel/pedals about 5 inches back, move as much weight as possible to the center of the car.
Oh and i forgot to add, i have a $600 budget, i wanna fabricate as much as i can.
Q <- Dumb frenchman [/B][/QUOTE]
While I applaud your effort especially at trying to go light, there is no way on earth you can do anything in SM on street tires (which by the way azenis are).
davenow:
I have to agree with everyone else and say ditch the flexes for the RA's.
my setup for next season....
pnp'd vf34/aps top mount/etc
full catless exhaust
JIC (10k/10K love the way it handles...no problems for me... yet)
cornerweight-agressive alignment
RA gearset (not sure on the final drive issue)
gutted rear+whatever weight shifting I can do within the rules
roll bar/harnesses/sparco evo
evolution school
It'll be really good locally and get spanked past that, but that's more on me than the car. I was a contender for local SM championships with the stock turbo previously and I have no reason to expect I won't be this year with the new setup. Nats are at least a year or two away from me personally, regardless of the car I'm driving. I wanted some KAAZ diffs with the Cusco center but ran out of $$$. I'm thinking of getting an STS civic anyway, SM is too darn expensive.
| Davenow | 12-15-2003 04:53 PM |
I am working on ditching the Flex's :)
Any recommendations for a cheap/light 16x8 wheel? Because money is what is keeping me at 16x7(slipstreams are 13lbs and 500 bucks for 4)
I cant afford 2000 for wheels/tires
Oh BTW guys, I could care less what will and wont be nationally competative. because lets face it, a WRX isnt going to be nationally competative anyway. Even if I was a good enough driver.
I just want to do well regionally.
I went to 2 SCCA events in my area this year, I left early at the one, and I was winning, the other I did win. and this was untuned and on 48lbs worth of wheels/tires (battles/azenis:eek: )
Q, I agree with the above guy. If you want to do ANYTHING you are going to need Azenis or S-03's at a minimum.
Any recommendations for a cheap/light 16x8 wheel? Because money is what is keeping me at 16x7(slipstreams are 13lbs and 500 bucks for 4)
I cant afford 2000 for wheels/tires
Oh BTW guys, I could care less what will and wont be nationally competative. because lets face it, a WRX isnt going to be nationally competative anyway. Even if I was a good enough driver.
I just want to do well regionally.
I went to 2 SCCA events in my area this year, I left early at the one, and I was winning, the other I did win. and this was untuned and on 48lbs worth of wheels/tires (battles/azenis:eek: )
Q, I agree with the above guy. If you want to do ANYTHING you are going to need Azenis or S-03's at a minimum.
| dwx | 12-15-2003 05:02 PM |
I think a WRX can be competitive, the Conebasher car is somewhat competitive and has trophied at nationals. It's unfortunate the car wasn't together last year to compete. It's going to take alot of money, just like any other car in SM. The M3s that are at the top right now can be picked up for not too much ('95 E36) but modding them certainly isn't cheap. The race parts both suspension and engine wise are very very good for that car, and plentiful. Bob Tunnell is easily one of the best drivers in all of autocross, so I wouldn't look at his results too closely, and I think he's going back to BSP I think to beat up on Corvettes some more.
Heck an S4 was in 2nd place two years in a row, and that car is an also ran compared to the WRX in its stock class.
Davenow, some of us were looking to do a group buy on Enkei Tarmac-ES wheels. They make them in 16x8 and 17x9. In 16x8 they are about 14-14.5 lbs. The only problem is you can only get them from Japan, so shipping sucks. [url]http://www.irs.co.jp/domestic/products/es_wheels.htm#EST[/url]
Basically those are list prices, you can take about 25 off of them for the actual price, so in 16x8 they are around $190/wheel. Only come in white, but they aren't too bad looking. BIGSKYWRX found a place selling Volk Gram Lights in 16x8 for around $1k shipped. That's what I use and they are probably less than 16 lbs in that size.
Heck an S4 was in 2nd place two years in a row, and that car is an also ran compared to the WRX in its stock class.
Davenow, some of us were looking to do a group buy on Enkei Tarmac-ES wheels. They make them in 16x8 and 17x9. In 16x8 they are about 14-14.5 lbs. The only problem is you can only get them from Japan, so shipping sucks. [url]http://www.irs.co.jp/domestic/products/es_wheels.htm#EST[/url]
Basically those are list prices, you can take about 25 off of them for the actual price, so in 16x8 they are around $190/wheel. Only come in white, but they aren't too bad looking. BIGSKYWRX found a place selling Volk Gram Lights in 16x8 for around $1k shipped. That's what I use and they are probably less than 16 lbs in that size.
| Rodan | 12-16-2003 11:35 AM |
How do the diff lock bolts work and explain how they improve performance?
My car has been pretty competitive in Street Tire class (TSM).
Later Drew
My car has been pretty competitive in Street Tire class (TSM).
Later Drew
| Davenow | 12-16-2003 12:21 PM |
the diff bolts simply create a solid mechanical connection from the rear subframe to the car unibody. Normally is in there, but on bushings that allow it to move around slightly. With these bolts, its locked solid. People report feeling a difference. Its 25 bucks, and in theory will if nothing else make the car more consistant handling wise.
| QfactorRS | 12-16-2003 01:40 PM |
As i said i will try to stay away from azenis as long as possible, but i might have to give in in the end.
If everything goes well, i could end up with a set of A032R, depending on the kind of support i can obtain at the end.
my rear carbon fiber control arms and trailing arms are almost finished, and the stress analysis on my front ones are in progress. I am hoping to have all this done by next season, if not i have a set of cnc Al front A arms all programmed and ready to bemachined.
my cf trunk lid (replacement:lol: ) is almost done as well, it is very very weak as i didn't want to use a structure of any sort.
Q
If everything goes well, i could end up with a set of A032R, depending on the kind of support i can obtain at the end.
my rear carbon fiber control arms and trailing arms are almost finished, and the stress analysis on my front ones are in progress. I am hoping to have all this done by next season, if not i have a set of cnc Al front A arms all programmed and ready to bemachined.
my cf trunk lid (replacement:lol: ) is almost done as well, it is very very weak as i didn't want to use a structure of any sort.
Q
| AWMIII | 12-16-2003 02:28 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by QfactorRS [/i]
[B]As i said i will try to stay away from azenis as long as possible, but i might have to give in in the end.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Dude, Here is the deal. YOU CAN NOT MAKE ANY LEGITMATE ATTEMPT TO COMPETE AT ANY LEGITIMATE LEVEL WITHOUT R COMPOUND TIRES! Azenis are not r compound tires, they are street tires and suck compared to good real autox tires. There are really only two tire choices for R tires. Hoosier (the best) and Kuhmo (2nd best). Any other current tires have no chance of being competitive unless you don't really have any real competitors. If you want to go fast, but a set of hoosiers. I am not even sure that you description of moving the steering wheel and pedals back in the car is legal in SM. It sounds more like Winston Cup. Have fun with your project, but it is not going to be a competitive sm car.
[B]As i said i will try to stay away from azenis as long as possible, but i might have to give in in the end.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Dude, Here is the deal. YOU CAN NOT MAKE ANY LEGITMATE ATTEMPT TO COMPETE AT ANY LEGITIMATE LEVEL WITHOUT R COMPOUND TIRES! Azenis are not r compound tires, they are street tires and suck compared to good real autox tires. There are really only two tire choices for R tires. Hoosier (the best) and Kuhmo (2nd best). Any other current tires have no chance of being competitive unless you don't really have any real competitors. If you want to go fast, but a set of hoosiers. I am not even sure that you description of moving the steering wheel and pedals back in the car is legal in SM. It sounds more like Winston Cup. Have fun with your project, but it is not going to be a competitive sm car.
| Scoobyslack1 | 12-16-2003 02:29 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Davenow [/i]
[B] AutoX is 90% driver anyway. [/B][/QUOTE]
yup, I finished 2nd for the season in the 2 groups I raced with...suprisingly...using all 180hp that my little Subaru can put out, it helps that it's only 2700lbs :)
Next year I'll be in EM
[QUOTE][i]QfactorRS [/i]
[B] my cf trunk lid [/B][/QUOTE]
last time I looked at the rules this wasn't legal for SM
[B] AutoX is 90% driver anyway. [/B][/QUOTE]
yup, I finished 2nd for the season in the 2 groups I raced with...suprisingly...using all 180hp that my little Subaru can put out, it helps that it's only 2700lbs :)
Next year I'll be in EM
[QUOTE][i]QfactorRS [/i]
[B] my cf trunk lid [/B][/QUOTE]
last time I looked at the rules this wasn't legal for SM
| rjrutzky | 12-16-2003 02:32 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rodan[/i]
[B] How do the diff lock bolts work and explain how they improve performance?
My car has been pretty competitive in Street Tire class (TSM).
Later Drew [/B][/QUOTE]
What is TSM? SM with street tires? Sounds to good to be true.
[B] How do the diff lock bolts work and explain how they improve performance?
My car has been pretty competitive in Street Tire class (TSM).
Later Drew [/B][/QUOTE]
What is TSM? SM with street tires? Sounds to good to be true.
| AWMIII | 12-16-2003 02:36 PM |
The trunk lid is okay in sm
| Davenow | 12-16-2003 02:40 PM |
Hmm Just got off the phone with TEIN.
The RA's are inverted, bottom adjustable dampers. Aluminum bodies.
Getting them would lead to the same problems I am having with my JIC's
Frozen adjusters, corroded bodies.
I drive this car all winter, and we get a LOT of salt on the roads up here.
Unfortunately it seems that the Flex's are the only sane choice for me.
SM doesnt seem super competative in my region as it is, so I should be ok with the Flex's.
When I get good enough to get 100% serious and compete nationally, it will probably be in STX with old man KC:p :lol: Because I dont, and never will have the funds to make a nationally competative SM wrx.
Actually I was thinking of prepared anyway at that point with a dedicated gutted trailer queen car. (which can actually be pretty cheap depending on the class) Gutted civic anyone?
OK so rephrasing my first post
Rate my REGIONAL sm setup:lol: :( :( :(
The RA's are inverted, bottom adjustable dampers. Aluminum bodies.
Getting them would lead to the same problems I am having with my JIC's
Frozen adjusters, corroded bodies.
I drive this car all winter, and we get a LOT of salt on the roads up here.
Unfortunately it seems that the Flex's are the only sane choice for me.
SM doesnt seem super competative in my region as it is, so I should be ok with the Flex's.
When I get good enough to get 100% serious and compete nationally, it will probably be in STX with old man KC:p :lol: Because I dont, and never will have the funds to make a nationally competative SM wrx.
Actually I was thinking of prepared anyway at that point with a dedicated gutted trailer queen car. (which can actually be pretty cheap depending on the class) Gutted civic anyone?
OK so rephrasing my first post
Rate my REGIONAL sm setup:lol: :( :( :(
| spidey02wrx | 12-16-2003 02:50 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AWMIII [/i]
[B]The trunk lid is okay in sm [/B][/QUOTE]
don't think so, you can replace the hood...but not the trunk.
18.1 section G on this page
[URL=http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/street_modified.html]sm rules[/URL]
anyway...
davenow :you should be very competitive depending on who the big dogs in your region are. unfortunatley SM is not the best place for a daily driver to live. I have a similiar problem as I track my car alot so I went with big brakes (means 17" wheels) and I can't make the car as twitchy as it should be. I'm sure you'll have fun anyway, I know I will.
[B]The trunk lid is okay in sm [/B][/QUOTE]
don't think so, you can replace the hood...but not the trunk.
18.1 section G on this page
[URL=http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/street_modified.html]sm rules[/URL]
anyway...
davenow :you should be very competitive depending on who the big dogs in your region are. unfortunatley SM is not the best place for a daily driver to live. I have a similiar problem as I track my car alot so I went with big brakes (means 17" wheels) and I can't make the car as twitchy as it should be. I'm sure you'll have fun anyway, I know I will.
| AWMIII | 12-16-2003 02:59 PM |
The firewall, roof, doors, rear quarter panels, floor pan, trunk lid (if any) or rear hatch (if any) must remain stock. Holes may be drilled to allow attachment of body kits, etc. This specifically allows replacement hoods, fenders, wings, front & rear fascias, side skirts, and fender flares as per Section 14. Body panels may be attached with removeable (e.g., Dzus) fasteners.
I stand corrected!
I stand corrected!
| QfactorRS | 12-16-2003 03:19 PM |
for people getting mad at my setup for not being competitive, there is no need for it.
I am in this for the fun and learning experience. Being a Full-Time engineering student with a part-time job and a girl on top of that, limit any and all national level of competition.
I only plan on participating in regional events (against Davenow).
And as a college student, I cannot afford 20 different set of rims and tires, i'll take what is given to me, best or not.
Damn about that trunk lid rule, i guess i need more english tutoring ;)
Q
I am in this for the fun and learning experience. Being a Full-Time engineering student with a part-time job and a girl on top of that, limit any and all national level of competition.
I only plan on participating in regional events (against Davenow).
And as a college student, I cannot afford 20 different set of rims and tires, i'll take what is given to me, best or not.
Damn about that trunk lid rule, i guess i need more english tutoring ;)
Q
| Davenow | 12-16-2003 03:33 PM |
Yeah Q.
Your car is going to be in prepared. It doenst sound like you are in it for a trophy (is there even one at a regional level?) so go into the correct class and have fun!:D
Your car is going to be in prepared. It doenst sound like you are in it for a trophy (is there even one at a regional level?) so go into the correct class and have fun!:D
| Rodan | 12-16-2003 03:37 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rjrutzky [/i]
[B]What is TSM? SM with street tires? Sounds to good to be true. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yup exactly.
it is a indexed group. It is just a street tire class. Most run Azenis.
I have been sucessful with modest power upgrades and some suspension goodies.
APS turbo-back
Unichip
221whp
225 tq
Suspension mods
Custom valved zero 2r Cusco coilovers
Front 21mm Cusco Sway bar
rear 22-24mm swaybar
Carbontech Panther plus pads.
Race allignment
-2.5 degrees neg camber in front
0.5 degree toe out in rear
tight course where I need rotation.
rear bar 23mm front coilovers set to 5 rear 4
not so much oversteer
rear bar 22mm rear coilover 5 front 4.
Crazy oversteer
rear bar 23mm rear coilover 5 front 4
Tires
225/45r17 Falken Azenis about 45psi all the way aound.
[B]What is TSM? SM with street tires? Sounds to good to be true. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yup exactly.
it is a indexed group. It is just a street tire class. Most run Azenis.
I have been sucessful with modest power upgrades and some suspension goodies.
APS turbo-back
Unichip
221whp
225 tq
Suspension mods
Custom valved zero 2r Cusco coilovers
Front 21mm Cusco Sway bar
rear 22-24mm swaybar
Carbontech Panther plus pads.
Race allignment
-2.5 degrees neg camber in front
0.5 degree toe out in rear
tight course where I need rotation.
rear bar 23mm front coilovers set to 5 rear 4
not so much oversteer
rear bar 22mm rear coilover 5 front 4.
Crazy oversteer
rear bar 23mm rear coilover 5 front 4
Tires
225/45r17 Falken Azenis about 45psi all the way aound.
| Davenow | 12-16-2003 04:17 PM |
BTW my buddy won at one of the NER events in SM in a 337 GTI with nothing but a GIAC chip and driving skills. Stock everything else as it came from the showroom floor.
Oh I may have forgotten to mention he is a national champion in his class in SCCA road racing. So he knows a little bit about driving;)
Oh I may have forgotten to mention he is a national champion in his class in SCCA road racing. So he knows a little bit about driving;)
| ellisnc | 12-16-2003 10:52 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dwx [/i]
[B]I think a WRX can be competitive, the Conebasher car is somewhat competitive and has trophied at nationals. It's unfortunate the car wasn't together last year to compete. It's going to take alot of money, just like any other car in SM. The M3s that are at the top right now can be picked up for not too much ('95 E36) but modding them certainly isn't cheap. The race parts both suspension and engine wise are very very good for that car, and plentiful. Bob Tunnell is easily one of the best drivers in all of autocross, so I wouldn't look at his results too closely, and I think he's going back to BSP I think to beat up on Corvettes some more.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Ahhh, but the 95's can be supercharged or turbocharged no?
[B]I think a WRX can be competitive, the Conebasher car is somewhat competitive and has trophied at nationals. It's unfortunate the car wasn't together last year to compete. It's going to take alot of money, just like any other car in SM. The M3s that are at the top right now can be picked up for not too much ('95 E36) but modding them certainly isn't cheap. The race parts both suspension and engine wise are very very good for that car, and plentiful. Bob Tunnell is easily one of the best drivers in all of autocross, so I wouldn't look at his results too closely, and I think he's going back to BSP I think to beat up on Corvettes some more.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Ahhh, but the 95's can be supercharged or turbocharged no?
| dwx | 12-17-2003 12:12 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ellisnc [/i]
[B]Ahhh, but the 95's can be supercharged or turbocharged no? [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah but they don't. There are guys that race the 95 M3 Lightweight edition in SM. Bob Tunnell I believe uses one and it probably weighs less than 2700 lbs. He uses a 3.2 inline 6 motor that puts out 321hp NA stock. You can push that motor upwards of 400hp NA. None of the M3s that win at nationals are forced induction, although some of them could because they are 3L engines.
[B]Ahhh, but the 95's can be supercharged or turbocharged no? [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah but they don't. There are guys that race the 95 M3 Lightweight edition in SM. Bob Tunnell I believe uses one and it probably weighs less than 2700 lbs. He uses a 3.2 inline 6 motor that puts out 321hp NA stock. You can push that motor upwards of 400hp NA. None of the M3s that win at nationals are forced induction, although some of them could because they are 3L engines.
| KC | 12-17-2003 08:07 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Davenow[/i]
[B] BTW my buddy won at one of the NER events in SM in a 337 GTI with nothing but a GIAC chip and driving skills. Stock everything else as it came from the showroom floor. [/B][/QUOTE]
Dave, no offense to your or your buddy, but no one showed up with a nationally competitve SM car. Fedja Jeleskovic took last year off (which was actullay good to help get fresh blood in SM, plus, he just got married). :lol:
STS and STX beat SM in NER in raw times. SM whoops up on both those with a side of 'thank you sir can I have another' on a national level.
Also, about the RAs, find a stock suspension for the winter and sometime in October, swap them over (only takes about 1-2 hrs and it's EASY work vs putting in a clutch) and put the RAs in a room for hybernation. Small sacrifice but well worth it. Come April, swap them back out. (I'm taking mine off this weekend)
What this also does, on a stock suspension (that you can usually find for like $100) is allows you to enjoy the snow and winter rally-x/ice racing a little more as the soft compliant suspension will soak up the bumps/slush. ALso, **IF** something should go wrong and you blow a strut (it can happen, this is competitive motorsport) you won't be grounded when it's getting fixed and you can still use your daily driver.
The adjusters on the bottom of the RAs are the best I've ever seen. A 3/4" knob that require no tools to adjust protected by an extra lip brought down around it from the bottom of the casing. Real easy to get to, great design and not these little rinky-dink 1/8" 6 sided posts.
[B] BTW my buddy won at one of the NER events in SM in a 337 GTI with nothing but a GIAC chip and driving skills. Stock everything else as it came from the showroom floor. [/B][/QUOTE]
Dave, no offense to your or your buddy, but no one showed up with a nationally competitve SM car. Fedja Jeleskovic took last year off (which was actullay good to help get fresh blood in SM, plus, he just got married). :lol:
STS and STX beat SM in NER in raw times. SM whoops up on both those with a side of 'thank you sir can I have another' on a national level.
Also, about the RAs, find a stock suspension for the winter and sometime in October, swap them over (only takes about 1-2 hrs and it's EASY work vs putting in a clutch) and put the RAs in a room for hybernation. Small sacrifice but well worth it. Come April, swap them back out. (I'm taking mine off this weekend)
What this also does, on a stock suspension (that you can usually find for like $100) is allows you to enjoy the snow and winter rally-x/ice racing a little more as the soft compliant suspension will soak up the bumps/slush. ALso, **IF** something should go wrong and you blow a strut (it can happen, this is competitive motorsport) you won't be grounded when it's getting fixed and you can still use your daily driver.
The adjusters on the bottom of the RAs are the best I've ever seen. A 3/4" knob that require no tools to adjust protected by an extra lip brought down around it from the bottom of the casing. Real easy to get to, great design and not these little rinky-dink 1/8" 6 sided posts.
| AWMIII | 12-17-2003 09:56 AM |
Q-
No one is getting mad at you. We are just trying to show you that a rulebook is a good investment when building a racecar. In addition, you should have probably picked up on the fact that amongst autoxers there are several groups. Newbies, people who think that they are experienced, but are really newbies, people who just run local events, who are fairly good, people who run national events and people that win their class at nationals. Unless you run national events, you do not know how good/bad you really are. It is a whole different ball game when a member of the last group decides to run in your class at the last minute, and you are 4 seconds slower than them when they are borrowing a car or running a car from a slower class. It happens and it hurts. But if you run only local events, you do not know how good or bad you are because their might be a national competitor in your class or not. And some national competitors do not really try at local events. They might only drive hard enough to win, but not hard enough to break anything. And in a class like SM, you competitor may or may not have a car prepared to the maximum. At Nats, you can be sure that MOST of the cars will be well prepped. Ask Keith what his racing budget was last year. He is in STX and cheap class. MY point is don't go sounding off and talking big, because it just reveals your inexperience. I bet PAT Salerno, Mike Johnson, or Matt Murray could win SM at most local events driving a Matrix.
No one is getting mad at you. We are just trying to show you that a rulebook is a good investment when building a racecar. In addition, you should have probably picked up on the fact that amongst autoxers there are several groups. Newbies, people who think that they are experienced, but are really newbies, people who just run local events, who are fairly good, people who run national events and people that win their class at nationals. Unless you run national events, you do not know how good/bad you really are. It is a whole different ball game when a member of the last group decides to run in your class at the last minute, and you are 4 seconds slower than them when they are borrowing a car or running a car from a slower class. It happens and it hurts. But if you run only local events, you do not know how good or bad you are because their might be a national competitor in your class or not. And some national competitors do not really try at local events. They might only drive hard enough to win, but not hard enough to break anything. And in a class like SM, you competitor may or may not have a car prepared to the maximum. At Nats, you can be sure that MOST of the cars will be well prepped. Ask Keith what his racing budget was last year. He is in STX and cheap class. MY point is don't go sounding off and talking big, because it just reveals your inexperience. I bet PAT Salerno, Mike Johnson, or Matt Murray could win SM at most local events driving a Matrix.
| Davenow | 12-17-2003 10:33 AM |
KC, from what I hear all the nationally competative guys in SM dont genrally show up to the NER events anyway. I am hoping that Fedja shows up next year, I want to see some real SM drivers do it! I am tired of STS/STX whipping SM's @ss at every event. Its a faster class, it should be faster. Its just that most of us SM guys in NER arent anywhere near as good as you STS/STX guys. I mean friggin Nates times are like 12 sec faster than me on a 90 sec course:huh: But like I said in that PM, I am counting this year as a skill builder. and that is my 100% focus. I am going to do a lot of events to get seat time, get as many instructor runs in as possible, and do Evolution. Hell, just having Steve Hazard drive my car ONCE on a course I was on, I am SURE I picked up an easy sec or two from watching what he did in some of my trouble areas. And he isnt even THAT good in the grand sceme of things.
If you are up for it, plan os spending a decent bit of time helping me polish my skills:D
Wasnt Daddio in SM until last year? I think I just may go to the stock suspension for the rest of the winter. Maybe toss some Eibachs on them until spring, then just replace the dampers in my JIC's since they served me so well this season.
What rates are you using?
If you are up for it, plan os spending a decent bit of time helping me polish my skills:D
Wasnt Daddio in SM until last year? I think I just may go to the stock suspension for the rest of the winter. Maybe toss some Eibachs on them until spring, then just replace the dampers in my JIC's since they served me so well this season.
What rates are you using?
| AWMIII | 12-17-2003 11:36 AM |
Daddio played around with SM in his neon. His car was out classed, but he still did okay nationally.
| dwx | 12-17-2003 12:52 PM |
They used to say Daddio's whole car cost less than Corey Smith's brakes. Corey Smith was the runner-up S4 in 2001/2002 I think.
| KC | 12-17-2003 12:54 PM |
Daddio was driving an SRT-4. He had a little to do with the existence of the car as we now know it.
--kC
--kC
| QfactorRS | 12-17-2003 02:28 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AWMIII[/i]
[B] Q-
No one is getting mad at you. We are just trying to show you that a rulebook is a good investment when building a racecar. In addition, you should have probably picked up on the fact that amongst autoxers there are several groups. Newbies, people who think that they are experienced, but are really newbies, people who just run local events, who are fairly good, people who run national events and people that win their class at nationals. Unless you run national events, you do not know how good/bad you really are. It is a whole different ball game when a member of the last group decides to run in your class at the last minute, and you are 4 seconds slower than them when they are borrowing a car or running a car from a slower class. It happens and it hurts. But if you run only local events, you do not know how good or bad you are because their might be a national competitor in your class or not. And some national competitors do not really try at local events. They might only drive hard enough to win, but not hard enough to break anything. And in a class like SM, you competitor may or may not have a car prepared to the maximum. At Nats, you can be sure that MOST of the cars will be well prepped. Ask Keith what his racing budget was last year. He is in STX and cheap class. MY point is don't go sounding off and talking big, because it just reveals your inexperience. I bet PAT Salerno, Mike Johnson, or Matt Murray could win SM at most local events driving a Matrix. [/B][/QUOTE]
I, by no mean, said that i was experienced or even any good, cause i am not. I still feel like a novice (even tho i am not anymore), and enjoy it when i get advice from national guys (KC, etc). As davenow pointed out, i am not even interested in a trophy, i am just trying to have fun, and try out a few mods on my car, see if they are an increase or not in performance. I run SM for 2 reasons, #1 the turbo kit and engine swap, and #2 cause i enjoy the other competitors in that little class (at least in NER).
AWMII, i am not sure i understand you're argument with me participating in SM, but if you want shoot me a pm so i stop whoreing this thread.
Q <- blah
:confused:
[B] Q-
No one is getting mad at you. We are just trying to show you that a rulebook is a good investment when building a racecar. In addition, you should have probably picked up on the fact that amongst autoxers there are several groups. Newbies, people who think that they are experienced, but are really newbies, people who just run local events, who are fairly good, people who run national events and people that win their class at nationals. Unless you run national events, you do not know how good/bad you really are. It is a whole different ball game when a member of the last group decides to run in your class at the last minute, and you are 4 seconds slower than them when they are borrowing a car or running a car from a slower class. It happens and it hurts. But if you run only local events, you do not know how good or bad you are because their might be a national competitor in your class or not. And some national competitors do not really try at local events. They might only drive hard enough to win, but not hard enough to break anything. And in a class like SM, you competitor may or may not have a car prepared to the maximum. At Nats, you can be sure that MOST of the cars will be well prepped. Ask Keith what his racing budget was last year. He is in STX and cheap class. MY point is don't go sounding off and talking big, because it just reveals your inexperience. I bet PAT Salerno, Mike Johnson, or Matt Murray could win SM at most local events driving a Matrix. [/B][/QUOTE]
I, by no mean, said that i was experienced or even any good, cause i am not. I still feel like a novice (even tho i am not anymore), and enjoy it when i get advice from national guys (KC, etc). As davenow pointed out, i am not even interested in a trophy, i am just trying to have fun, and try out a few mods on my car, see if they are an increase or not in performance. I run SM for 2 reasons, #1 the turbo kit and engine swap, and #2 cause i enjoy the other competitors in that little class (at least in NER).
AWMII, i am not sure i understand you're argument with me participating in SM, but if you want shoot me a pm so i stop whoreing this thread.
Q <- blah
:confused:
| Rodan | 12-17-2003 05:56 PM |
Ok well were over that I would like my setup discussed next.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rodan [/i]
[B]Yup exactly.
it is a indexed group. It is just a street tire class. Most run Azenis.
I have been sucessful with modest power upgrades and some suspension goodies.
APS turbo-back
Unichip
221whp
225 tq
Suspension mods
Custom valved zero 2r Cusco coilovers
Front 21mm Cusco Sway bar
rear 22-24mm swaybar
Carbontech Panther plus pads.
Race allignment
-2.5 degrees neg camber in front
0.5 degree toe out in rear
tight course where I need rotation.
rear bar 23mm front coilovers set to 5 rear 4
not so much oversteer
rear bar 22mm rear coilover 5 front 4.
Crazy oversteer
rear bar 23mm rear coilover 5 front 4
Tires
225/45r17 Falken Azenis about 45psi all the way aound. [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rodan [/i]
[B]Yup exactly.
it is a indexed group. It is just a street tire class. Most run Azenis.
I have been sucessful with modest power upgrades and some suspension goodies.
APS turbo-back
Unichip
221whp
225 tq
Suspension mods
Custom valved zero 2r Cusco coilovers
Front 21mm Cusco Sway bar
rear 22-24mm swaybar
Carbontech Panther plus pads.
Race allignment
-2.5 degrees neg camber in front
0.5 degree toe out in rear
tight course where I need rotation.
rear bar 23mm front coilovers set to 5 rear 4
not so much oversteer
rear bar 22mm rear coilover 5 front 4.
Crazy oversteer
rear bar 23mm rear coilover 5 front 4
Tires
225/45r17 Falken Azenis about 45psi all the way aound. [/B][/QUOTE]
| Davenow | 12-17-2003 05:59 PM |
add more power. Go to 225/45/16 Azenis for a gear down effect
| Patrick Olsen | 12-18-2003 03:57 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]Daddio was driving an SRT-4. He had a little to do with the existence of the car as we now know it.
--kC [/B][/QUOTE]
Was that a factory-developed car? I know it was an old body style, he's been driving that same car for a few years now. From talking to him briefly at a CART event I was under the impression it was an aftermarket turbo kit of some sort.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
[i]Eats SM for breakfast[/i]
[B]Daddio was driving an SRT-4. He had a little to do with the existence of the car as we now know it.
--kC [/B][/QUOTE]
Was that a factory-developed car? I know it was an old body style, he's been driving that same car for a few years now. From talking to him briefly at a CART event I was under the impression it was an aftermarket turbo kit of some sort.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
[i]Eats SM for breakfast[/i]
| Rodan | 12-18-2003 09:01 AM |
I'm not sure about the power I can finish in the top 5 however I still get beat by my lower power cars. Mostly the Miatas they run TCS. All the tire class cars get lumped together. For instance last time I beat this guy in TAS an EVO but I didn't beat him by a big enough margin so he still placed higher then me.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Davenow [/i]
[B]add more power. Go to 225/45/16 Azenis for a gear down effect [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Davenow [/i]
[B]add more power. Go to 225/45/16 Azenis for a gear down effect [/B][/QUOTE]
| dwx | 12-18-2003 09:52 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Patrick Olsen [/i]
[B]Was that a factory-developed car? I know it was an old body style, he's been driving that same car for a few years now. From talking to him briefly at a CART event I was under the impression it was an aftermarket turbo kit of some sort.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
[i]Eats SM for breakfast[/i] [/B][/QUOTE]
I think his Neon was all his own creation, but it may have sparked something for Dodge. He was using a 2.4L block out of a PT Cruiser wasn't he?
Phil
[B]Was that a factory-developed car? I know it was an old body style, he's been driving that same car for a few years now. From talking to him briefly at a CART event I was under the impression it was an aftermarket turbo kit of some sort.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
[i]Eats SM for breakfast[/i] [/B][/QUOTE]
I think his Neon was all his own creation, but it may have sparked something for Dodge. He was using a 2.4L block out of a PT Cruiser wasn't he?
Phil
| KC | 12-18-2003 09:52 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Patrick Olsen[/i]
[B] Was that a factory-developed car? I know it was an old body style, he's been driving that same car for a few years now. From talking to him briefly at a CART event I was under the impression it was an aftermarket turbo kit of some sort.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
[i]Eats SM for breakfast[/i] [/B][/QUOTE]
Factory developed? No. However he was consulted on many tuning issues in getting it to work.
--KC
[B] Was that a factory-developed car? I know it was an old body style, he's been driving that same car for a few years now. From talking to him briefly at a CART event I was under the impression it was an aftermarket turbo kit of some sort.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
[i]Eats SM for breakfast[/i] [/B][/QUOTE]
Factory developed? No. However he was consulted on many tuning issues in getting it to work.
--KC
| Davenow | 12-18-2003 10:53 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]Factory developed? No. However he was consulted on many tuning issues in getting it to work.
--KC [/B][/QUOTE]
Why did he let the first gen SRT-4 get out the door with no LSD?
Any word on how these things actually DO in autoX?
[B]Factory developed? No. However he was consulted on many tuning issues in getting it to work.
--KC [/B][/QUOTE]
Why did he let the first gen SRT-4 get out the door with no LSD?
Any word on how these things actually DO in autoX?
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