| GarySheehan | 06-13-2006 07:51 PM |
teamSMR Racing Videos Used for Evil
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OK, so there are now two video hosting websites hosting video from MY website that are taken out of context to make it look like I got mad at another driver and deliberately crashed him off the road. And if you know anything about these video sites, thousands of people view these vids!
I've found 2 forum threads (one here on NASIOC) that link to these videos saying I deliberately crashed another driver. I've gone on both sites and clarified that these videos were used inappropriately as well as explained there was no ill will between me and the other driver.
I'd like to ask a favor of the folks here in Motorsports forum. Any help you can provide in attacking these slanderous videos in your travels would be much appreciated. I've got a feeling threads will be popping up in forums all over the place. The last thing I need in my career is people thinking I have no respect for the lives of the people I race with!
Here's what I'm up against:
[url]http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=17915&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1023042[/url]
Here is the response I have been putting up in forums:
[i]Wow. I never guessed in-car racing video would be bastardized like this. This video and the two videos posted seperately on YouTube have popped up everywhere. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to have my reputation attacked like this.
These are in fact videos from two different races, hence the different camera views and different scenery. Most tended to ignore these inconsistencies so they could jump on the "bad driver" bandwagon.
The cars in the video are a Subaru WRX (not STi), driven by myself, and a Honda Civic driven by Neil Vanni.
The first video is at California Speedway. Neil Vanni (in the Honda) had so much more power in his car that he just popped out from behind me and passed me like I was standing still. I threw my hands up in the air because I was frustrated that the rules had crippled our WRX so much and had given the Hondas so much that our car was completely uncompetitive. There was no anger towards Neil or the Honda. Neil made a perfectly clean pass on the straight and I never even had to change my line. Neil continued on up to race with Tom Lepper in a Honda Accord. The Hondas finished 1-2 and I finished 3rd. End of story. Absolutely NO anger towards any drivers.
The second video was at Reno-Fernley Raceway recently after it had opened. The configuration of the track back then made it VERY difficult to pass. Neil had been in front of me in the lead of the race for a bunch of laps and I was contantly looking for a way to get past. Slower traffic always brings the potential for a pass and this was no different. As Neil and I approached the Miata, Neil caught the Miata with bad timing and had to brake slightly. I had more room, didn't brake, and popped out to the left in an effort to use the Miata as a pick, trapping Neil behind the slower car and passing both of them at the same time. Unfortunately, Neil didn't check his left side mirror and pulled out around the Miata. I tried to give him room, but I ran out of road on my left and Neil kept coming across, contacted my right front with his left rear and began to spin counterclockwise as we left the track. Also unfortunately, the infield of Reno -Fernley was like the lunar surface Neil's wheels sunk in and his car barrel rolled about 6 times before coming to a stop. My car was damaged, but I was able to continue. Neil had his bell rung pretty good and his car was completely totalled. But he came out of it without any serious injuries, which is truly the most important part. Neil was pretty upset with me afterwards, as it's my responsibility to make a clean pass. But it's also his responsibility to check his mirrors prior to making a drastic move like that, and in speaking with him after the crash, he said he had checked his right side mirror to see where I was behind him, but never checked his left side mirror as he never expected me to be up there. Ultimately it was truly a racing incident.
Neil and I have competed hard against each other in the past and have had a few situations where there was contact, damage and angry words. But don't for a second think that any of the contact was deliberate or vengeful! We are racecar drivers and we need to be looking out for each other's safety out there. [/i]
Thanks for you help!
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
I've found 2 forum threads (one here on NASIOC) that link to these videos saying I deliberately crashed another driver. I've gone on both sites and clarified that these videos were used inappropriately as well as explained there was no ill will between me and the other driver.
I'd like to ask a favor of the folks here in Motorsports forum. Any help you can provide in attacking these slanderous videos in your travels would be much appreciated. I've got a feeling threads will be popping up in forums all over the place. The last thing I need in my career is people thinking I have no respect for the lives of the people I race with!
Here's what I'm up against:
[url]http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=17915&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1023042[/url]
Here is the response I have been putting up in forums:
[i]Wow. I never guessed in-car racing video would be bastardized like this. This video and the two videos posted seperately on YouTube have popped up everywhere. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to have my reputation attacked like this.
These are in fact videos from two different races, hence the different camera views and different scenery. Most tended to ignore these inconsistencies so they could jump on the "bad driver" bandwagon.
The cars in the video are a Subaru WRX (not STi), driven by myself, and a Honda Civic driven by Neil Vanni.
The first video is at California Speedway. Neil Vanni (in the Honda) had so much more power in his car that he just popped out from behind me and passed me like I was standing still. I threw my hands up in the air because I was frustrated that the rules had crippled our WRX so much and had given the Hondas so much that our car was completely uncompetitive. There was no anger towards Neil or the Honda. Neil made a perfectly clean pass on the straight and I never even had to change my line. Neil continued on up to race with Tom Lepper in a Honda Accord. The Hondas finished 1-2 and I finished 3rd. End of story. Absolutely NO anger towards any drivers.
The second video was at Reno-Fernley Raceway recently after it had opened. The configuration of the track back then made it VERY difficult to pass. Neil had been in front of me in the lead of the race for a bunch of laps and I was contantly looking for a way to get past. Slower traffic always brings the potential for a pass and this was no different. As Neil and I approached the Miata, Neil caught the Miata with bad timing and had to brake slightly. I had more room, didn't brake, and popped out to the left in an effort to use the Miata as a pick, trapping Neil behind the slower car and passing both of them at the same time. Unfortunately, Neil didn't check his left side mirror and pulled out around the Miata. I tried to give him room, but I ran out of road on my left and Neil kept coming across, contacted my right front with his left rear and began to spin counterclockwise as we left the track. Also unfortunately, the infield of Reno -Fernley was like the lunar surface Neil's wheels sunk in and his car barrel rolled about 6 times before coming to a stop. My car was damaged, but I was able to continue. Neil had his bell rung pretty good and his car was completely totalled. But he came out of it without any serious injuries, which is truly the most important part. Neil was pretty upset with me afterwards, as it's my responsibility to make a clean pass. But it's also his responsibility to check his mirrors prior to making a drastic move like that, and in speaking with him after the crash, he said he had checked his right side mirror to see where I was behind him, but never checked his left side mirror as he never expected me to be up there. Ultimately it was truly a racing incident.
Neil and I have competed hard against each other in the past and have had a few situations where there was contact, damage and angry words. But don't for a second think that any of the contact was deliberate or vengeful! We are racecar drivers and we need to be looking out for each other's safety out there. [/i]
Thanks for you help!
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| Lafora | 06-13-2006 08:17 PM |
replied in this forum.
can't be bothered to register for GRM
can't be bothered to register for GRM
| AndyRoo | 06-13-2006 08:31 PM |
wow Gary....the children in those threads are pretty clueless.
sweet video! :rolleyes:
- andrew
sweet video! :rolleyes:
- andrew
| AndyRoo | 06-13-2006 08:34 PM |
and the GRM forum guys seem even worse then the nasiocers.
edit: it looks like they got it cleared up a bit though.
edit: it looks like they got it cleared up a bit though.
| silver arrow | 06-13-2006 08:51 PM |
GT4 + noobs = most internet froum trolls. Glad you cleared that up. I saw the vids but it looked like a simple racing incident to me. Couldn't really tell if the Civic had rolled in the vids. Glad he's OK.
| Mykl | 06-13-2006 08:52 PM |
Lame lame lame.... I hope you can repair your reputation and get back at those who damaged it.
| nKoan | 06-13-2006 08:58 PM |
Damn, I remember hearing stories and watching the incar a long time ago. I thought the footage looked familiar this morning when I saw it on yikers.
Anyway, I hope you get this worked out.
Anyway, I hope you get this worked out.
| MPME | 06-13-2006 08:59 PM |
I can guarantee some 'tarded Honda devotee saw the vids, got fired up, said "look dood, that Honda OWNED that Soobaruu, I'ma show everybody my mAd viDEo SkYlLz and klown that WREX fool"
F*cking children with short attention spans, and even shorter understandings of life.
F*cking children with short attention spans, and even shorter understandings of life.
| digitalseance | 06-13-2006 09:09 PM |
It was clear that you were going around on the outside and he drifted into you, or you oversteered into him. Clearly just a racing incedent. I haven't done much road racing at all but I'm a die-hard IMSA/ALMS fanatic and it was clearly just "one of those things that you can't avoid".
Ignore them.
Ignore them.
| spazegun2213 | 06-13-2006 09:36 PM |
Gary,
This is NOT NASCAR, i rearly recall an all out brawl between drivers after an incident. The videos do not do anyone justice, and when they are improperly used like that Racing becomes a poo flinging contest.
Neil and you both continue to race which is the important part. There will always be wrecks and mishaps on track, its part of playing the game. You and him just happened to be in the wrong spots at the right time.
I'll still be rooting for you :)
-Ross
This is NOT NASCAR, i rearly recall an all out brawl between drivers after an incident. The videos do not do anyone justice, and when they are improperly used like that Racing becomes a poo flinging contest.
Neil and you both continue to race which is the important part. There will always be wrecks and mishaps on track, its part of playing the game. You and him just happened to be in the wrong spots at the right time.
I'll still be rooting for you :)
-Ross
| Black-STi | 06-13-2006 10:00 PM |
I got your back over on IWSTI.com
[URL=http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?p=710134#post710134]http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?p=710134#post710134[/URL]
[URL=http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?p=710134#post710134]http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?p=710134#post710134[/URL]
| GarySheehan | 06-13-2006 10:08 PM |
[QUOTE=spazegun2213]Gary,
This is NOT NASCAR, i rearly recall an all out brawl between drivers after an incident. The videos do not do anyone justice, and when they are improperly used like that Racing becomes a poo flinging contest.
Neil and you both continue to race which is the important part. There will always be wrecks and mishaps on track, its part of playing the game. You and him just happened to be in the wrong spots at the right time.
I'll still be rooting for you :)
-Ross[/QUOTE]
Ross,
You remember an all out brawl after the incident?! I remember Neil and I talking about the incident alone both in the pits and in race control. Neil and I have never raised a hand at each other in anger. You have the wrong guys.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
This is NOT NASCAR, i rearly recall an all out brawl between drivers after an incident. The videos do not do anyone justice, and when they are improperly used like that Racing becomes a poo flinging contest.
Neil and you both continue to race which is the important part. There will always be wrecks and mishaps on track, its part of playing the game. You and him just happened to be in the wrong spots at the right time.
I'll still be rooting for you :)
-Ross[/QUOTE]
Ross,
You remember an all out brawl after the incident?! I remember Neil and I talking about the incident alone both in the pits and in race control. Neil and I have never raised a hand at each other in anger. You have the wrong guys.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| Impreza01 | 06-13-2006 10:20 PM |
Gary, Nasioc OT saw it too. Funny thing is we all jumped on the OP for being stupid and backed you!
| MPME | 06-13-2006 10:45 PM |
Best reply on this thread, EVER (from IWSTI):
[I]Looks to me like the civic tried to pass without a point-by.[/I]
[I]Looks to me like the civic tried to pass without a point-by.[/I]
| gregr01 | 06-13-2006 11:10 PM |
As a professional driver and semi-public figure, you need to develop a thicker hide.
Wrong though they may be, I don't see these postings harming your professional standing [I]among other professionals[/I]. For fans, noobs and others not in the industry, pfft, having [I]any[/I] rep is better than being completely unknown.
If you're lucky enough to get a paid full-time ride in WC or any other series, and/or once you start winning WC races the doo-doo may really start being flung. Sit back and enjoy it, and race the best you can.
On more than one occasion TK, Gentilozzi, Said, Schroeder, Gigliotti and many other top road racers have been accused of purposefully instigating much worse on-track incidents than this. Racing goes on. Your fellow drivers and team owners know the real scoop.
If you really feel you must pursue the vid postings, aren't you the intellectual property rights owner? Just contact the hosts and they'll pull down the vids.
Wrong though they may be, I don't see these postings harming your professional standing [I]among other professionals[/I]. For fans, noobs and others not in the industry, pfft, having [I]any[/I] rep is better than being completely unknown.
If you're lucky enough to get a paid full-time ride in WC or any other series, and/or once you start winning WC races the doo-doo may really start being flung. Sit back and enjoy it, and race the best you can.
On more than one occasion TK, Gentilozzi, Said, Schroeder, Gigliotti and many other top road racers have been accused of purposefully instigating much worse on-track incidents than this. Racing goes on. Your fellow drivers and team owners know the real scoop.
If you really feel you must pursue the vid postings, aren't you the intellectual property rights owner? Just contact the hosts and they'll pull down the vids.
| zzyzx | 06-13-2006 11:35 PM |
[QUOTE=gregr01]As a professional driver and semi-public figure, you need to develop a thicker hide.[/quote]
If these were simply comments and a misunderstanding of what transpired, I'd agree. This, however, is a person deliberately piecing together unrelated events to make an invalid point. If said individual's intent was to harm Garys reputation, then I think there's a legal path to making a case for slander.
If these were simply comments and a misunderstanding of what transpired, I'd agree. This, however, is a person deliberately piecing together unrelated events to make an invalid point. If said individual's intent was to harm Garys reputation, then I think there's a legal path to making a case for slander.
| leecea | 06-13-2006 11:53 PM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]Ross,
You remember an all out brawl after the incident?! I remember Neil and I talking about the incident alone both in the pits and in race control. Neil and I have never raised a hand at each other in anger. You have the wrong guys.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
In Ross's post, I think "rearly" is supposed to be "rarely" and he is being supportive in an oddly worded way, though I guess he can clarify it for himself.
You remember an all out brawl after the incident?! I remember Neil and I talking about the incident alone both in the pits and in race control. Neil and I have never raised a hand at each other in anger. You have the wrong guys.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
In Ross's post, I think "rearly" is supposed to be "rarely" and he is being supportive in an oddly worded way, though I guess he can clarify it for himself.
| AndyRoo | 06-14-2006 12:03 AM |
Ross "rearly" spells things correctly.....
:lol:
- Andrew
:lol:
- Andrew
| WRXedUSA | 06-14-2006 12:21 AM |
Shall I call in teh OT close air support Gary?
| MPME | 06-14-2006 01:01 AM |
[QUOTE=gregr01]As a professional driver and semi-public figure, you need to develop a thicker hide.
Wrong though they may be, I don't see these postings harming your professional standing [I]among other professionals[/I]. For fans, noobs and others not in the industry, pfft, having [I]any[/I] rep is better than being completely unknown.
If you're lucky enough to get a paid full-time ride in WC or any other series, and/or once you start winning WC races the doo-doo may really start being flung. Sit back and enjoy it, and race the best you can.
On more than one occasion TK, Gentilozzi, Said, Schroeder, Gigliotti and many other top road racers have been accused of purposefully instigating much worse on-track incidents than this. Racing goes on. Your fellow drivers and team owners know the real scoop.
If you really feel you must pursue the vid postings, aren't you the intellectual property rights owner? Just contact the hosts and they'll pull down the vids.[/QUOTE]
On more levels than I care to dissect, that's a really stupid post.
Someone saying "you suck" is a lot different than someone taking the time to falsely edit a video together to slander your name. If you can't see that, you're blind.
Wrong though they may be, I don't see these postings harming your professional standing [I]among other professionals[/I]. For fans, noobs and others not in the industry, pfft, having [I]any[/I] rep is better than being completely unknown.
If you're lucky enough to get a paid full-time ride in WC or any other series, and/or once you start winning WC races the doo-doo may really start being flung. Sit back and enjoy it, and race the best you can.
On more than one occasion TK, Gentilozzi, Said, Schroeder, Gigliotti and many other top road racers have been accused of purposefully instigating much worse on-track incidents than this. Racing goes on. Your fellow drivers and team owners know the real scoop.
If you really feel you must pursue the vid postings, aren't you the intellectual property rights owner? Just contact the hosts and they'll pull down the vids.[/QUOTE]
On more levels than I care to dissect, that's a really stupid post.
Someone saying "you suck" is a lot different than someone taking the time to falsely edit a video together to slander your name. If you can't see that, you're blind.
| drees | 06-14-2006 03:22 AM |
Sounds everyone has your back regarding the discussions.
However, the hosting of your video content on someone else's (yikers.com and vidiac.com and who knows who else) server is blatent Copyright infringement and illegal, especially as it has been edited in a way to defame and slander you. The person uploading the content and the hosting site should be held liable. A phone call and cease & desist letter ought to get their attention.
However, the hosting of your video content on someone else's (yikers.com and vidiac.com and who knows who else) server is blatent Copyright infringement and illegal, especially as it has been edited in a way to defame and slander you. The person uploading the content and the hosting site should be held liable. A phone call and cease & desist letter ought to get their attention.
| MattNJ2.8 | 06-14-2006 07:56 AM |
[QUOTE=WRXedUSA]Shall I call in teh OT close air support Gary?[/QUOTE]
LMAO!!!
Respek teh OT
LMAO!!!
Respek teh OT
| spazegun2213 | 06-14-2006 08:51 AM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]Ross,
You remember an all out brawl after the incident?! I remember Neil and I talking about the incident alone both in the pits and in race control. Neil and I have never raised a hand at each other in anger. You have the wrong guys.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
no, no, i said "I '[I][B][U]rarely[/U][/B][/I]' recall an all out brawl" meaning that most drivers actually settle their differences with words, as opposed to nascar where you constantly see fighting.
You remember an all out brawl after the incident?! I remember Neil and I talking about the incident alone both in the pits and in race control. Neil and I have never raised a hand at each other in anger. You have the wrong guys.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
no, no, i said "I '[I][B][U]rarely[/U][/B][/I]' recall an all out brawl" meaning that most drivers actually settle their differences with words, as opposed to nascar where you constantly see fighting.
| gregr01 | 06-14-2006 09:53 AM |
[QUOTE=MPME]�stupid post...[/QUOTE]
Marshall, since you have so much professional motorsports experience--including media--I'm surprised you haven't given better counsel to Gary. The issue is libel (printed) not slander (spoken), as many states make either a statutory definition or distinguish substantively between the two.
Being a professional driver, Gary would very likely be a limited purpose public figure, so the bar could be set at having to prove actual malice in combining the videos and posting a message that insinuates "revenge" driving.
Marshall, since you have so much professional motorsports experience--including media--I'm surprised you haven't given better counsel to Gary. The issue is libel (printed) not slander (spoken), as many states make either a statutory definition or distinguish substantively between the two.
Being a professional driver, Gary would very likely be a limited purpose public figure, so the bar could be set at having to prove actual malice in combining the videos and posting a message that insinuates "revenge" driving.
| Virrdog | 06-14-2006 10:44 AM |
[QUOTE=gregr01]Marshall, since you have so much professional motorsports experience--including media--I'm surprised you haven't given better counsel to Gary. The issue is libel (printed) not slander (spoken), as many states make either a statutory definition or distinguish substantively between the two.
Being a professional driver, Gary would very likely be a limited purpose public figure, so the bar could be set at having to prove actual malice in combining the videos and posting a message that insinuates "revenge" driving.[/QUOTE]
Do you want to be hired as their lawyer?? :confused:
It was a stupid thing someone was trying to do. He is not required to ignore it because he is a race car driver. :rolleyes:
Being a professional driver, Gary would very likely be a limited purpose public figure, so the bar could be set at having to prove actual malice in combining the videos and posting a message that insinuates "revenge" driving.[/QUOTE]
Do you want to be hired as their lawyer?? :confused:
It was a stupid thing someone was trying to do. He is not required to ignore it because he is a race car driver. :rolleyes:
| leecea | 06-14-2006 10:48 AM |
I don't know the legal definition of malice, but I think the point is that someone deliberatly put in the time to create a video showing a fake sequence of events that cast Gary in a very bad light, then posted it on forums where racers typically hang out, and knowingly lied about what it showed ("[I]a video of a STi that gets cut off by a Civic while racing so the STi decides to run the guy off the track[/I]"). This wasn't an accident or a missunderstanding.
| GarySheehan | 06-14-2006 10:48 AM |
Greg01,
I'm pretty sure I got it right:
[b]Slander[/b]
Main Entry: 2slander
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sclaundre, slaundre, from Old French esclandre, from Late Latin scandalum stumbling block, offense -- more at SCANDAL
1 : the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame and damage another's reputation
[b]Utterance[/b]
Main Entry: 2ut�ter�ance
Pronunciation: '&-t&-r&n(t)s also '&-tr&n(t)s
Function: noun
1 : something uttered; especially : an oral or written statement : a stated or published expression
[b]Libel[/b]
Main Entry: 1li�bel
Pronunciation: 'lI-b&l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, written declaration, from Middle French, from Latin libellus, diminutive of liber book
1 a : a written statement in which a plaintiff in certain courts sets forth the cause of action or the relief sought b archaic : a handbill especially attacking or defaming someone
2 a : a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression b (1) : a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt (2) : defamation of a person by written or representational means (3) : the publication of blasphemous, treasonable, seditious, or obscene writings or pictures (4) : the act, tort, or crime of publishing such a libel
It appears that they can be used interchangeably in english, but that may not be the same in court.
Anyway, I don't know that anyone put these videos together to maliciously attack me directly, but I do think there are inintentional negative impacts to me.
Regarding my soft skin, what if my name gets associated with this video without the explanation? And lets say a person in a decision making position of a company that I want to seek sponsorship from has seen this video and made a decision about me prior to even meeting me?
With fans, sponsors, other drivers and team owners, I do not want the reputation of being a dangerous and vindictive driver. I don't care what famous drivers are known for driving dirty, I am not one of them. And I am damn sure I want to do everything I can to prevent some little internet puke from muddying the water.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
I'm pretty sure I got it right:
[b]Slander[/b]
Main Entry: 2slander
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sclaundre, slaundre, from Old French esclandre, from Late Latin scandalum stumbling block, offense -- more at SCANDAL
1 : the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame and damage another's reputation
[b]Utterance[/b]
Main Entry: 2ut�ter�ance
Pronunciation: '&-t&-r&n(t)s also '&-tr&n(t)s
Function: noun
1 : something uttered; especially : an oral or written statement : a stated or published expression
[b]Libel[/b]
Main Entry: 1li�bel
Pronunciation: 'lI-b&l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, written declaration, from Middle French, from Latin libellus, diminutive of liber book
1 a : a written statement in which a plaintiff in certain courts sets forth the cause of action or the relief sought b archaic : a handbill especially attacking or defaming someone
2 a : a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression b (1) : a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt (2) : defamation of a person by written or representational means (3) : the publication of blasphemous, treasonable, seditious, or obscene writings or pictures (4) : the act, tort, or crime of publishing such a libel
It appears that they can be used interchangeably in english, but that may not be the same in court.
Anyway, I don't know that anyone put these videos together to maliciously attack me directly, but I do think there are inintentional negative impacts to me.
Regarding my soft skin, what if my name gets associated with this video without the explanation? And lets say a person in a decision making position of a company that I want to seek sponsorship from has seen this video and made a decision about me prior to even meeting me?
With fans, sponsors, other drivers and team owners, I do not want the reputation of being a dangerous and vindictive driver. I don't care what famous drivers are known for driving dirty, I am not one of them. And I am damn sure I want to do everything I can to prevent some little internet puke from muddying the water.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| WRXedUSA | 06-14-2006 10:54 AM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]
With fans, sponsors, other drivers and team owners, I do not want the reputation of being a dangerous and vindictive driver. I don't care what famous drivers are known for driving dirty, I am not one of them. And I am damn sure I want to do everything I can to prevent some little internet puke from muddying the water.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
No action is probably the best action here Gary. Put aside the internet chatter. You are always going to have the consipiracy theorists talking with 3rd hand information making up crap. Nasioc is no better than any other website when it comes to this. The SCCA and GRM forums make me gag at times too.
This is between you and Neil, not you vs. Neil trying to win over keyboard commandos.
With fans, sponsors, other drivers and team owners, I do not want the reputation of being a dangerous and vindictive driver. I don't care what famous drivers are known for driving dirty, I am not one of them. And I am damn sure I want to do everything I can to prevent some little internet puke from muddying the water.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
No action is probably the best action here Gary. Put aside the internet chatter. You are always going to have the consipiracy theorists talking with 3rd hand information making up crap. Nasioc is no better than any other website when it comes to this. The SCCA and GRM forums make me gag at times too.
This is between you and Neil, not you vs. Neil trying to win over keyboard commandos.
| MPME | 06-14-2006 11:37 AM |
[QUOTE=gregr01]Marshall, since you have so much professional motorsports experience--including media--I'm surprised you haven't given better counsel to Gary. The issue is libel (printed) not slander (spoken), as many states make either a statutory definition or distinguish substantively between the two.
Being a professional driver, Gary would very likely be a limited purpose public figure, so the bar could be set at having to prove actual malice in combining the videos and posting a message that insinuates "revenge" driving.[/QUOTE]
Great over compensational use of big words. Sorry if everything you see, think, or regard should be filtered through false layers of media friendliness first, but believe it or not, it's OK for drivers, or any other type of professional to speak their mind.
As for counseling Gary, uh, he's about as smart a person as I know; that you see his post and equate it to a "public figure" needing thicker skin is laughable. Enjoy your Bill O'Reilly tonight, manufactured existence, and whatever other forms of detached living you enjoy.
Being a professional driver, Gary would very likely be a limited purpose public figure, so the bar could be set at having to prove actual malice in combining the videos and posting a message that insinuates "revenge" driving.[/QUOTE]
Great over compensational use of big words. Sorry if everything you see, think, or regard should be filtered through false layers of media friendliness first, but believe it or not, it's OK for drivers, or any other type of professional to speak their mind.
As for counseling Gary, uh, he's about as smart a person as I know; that you see his post and equate it to a "public figure" needing thicker skin is laughable. Enjoy your Bill O'Reilly tonight, manufactured existence, and whatever other forms of detached living you enjoy.
| spazegun2213 | 06-14-2006 11:48 AM |
[QUOTE=WRXedUSA]No action is probably the best action here Gary. Put aside the internet chatter. You are always going to have the consipiracy theorists talking with 3rd hand information making up crap. Nasioc is no better than any other website when it comes to this. The SCCA and GRM forums make me gag at times too.
This is between you and Neil, not you vs. Neil trying to win over keyboard commandos.[/QUOTE]
Gary,
I almost agree with WRXed here. All the drivers that know you and race with you, know you are a stand up guy and that you are NOT dangerous. Any driver that does not, isnt racing with you. So this is just an internet war between "fans" that just flings poo on good drivers.
As long as neil and you are still cool with each other on the track then the video accomplished nothing in the long run, other than getting some kids getting their panties in a bunch.
I saw the videos and chalked it up to racing, being that if someone really did flip another car, they would not be driving for a while (again this is NOT NASCAR) as I'm sure complaints would be filed.
so really Gary, the loyal fans will still stand behind you! now what are you doing behind a computer reading this, shouldn't you be in a subaru getting faster ;)
-Ross
This is between you and Neil, not you vs. Neil trying to win over keyboard commandos.[/QUOTE]
Gary,
I almost agree with WRXed here. All the drivers that know you and race with you, know you are a stand up guy and that you are NOT dangerous. Any driver that does not, isnt racing with you. So this is just an internet war between "fans" that just flings poo on good drivers.
As long as neil and you are still cool with each other on the track then the video accomplished nothing in the long run, other than getting some kids getting their panties in a bunch.
I saw the videos and chalked it up to racing, being that if someone really did flip another car, they would not be driving for a while (again this is NOT NASCAR) as I'm sure complaints would be filed.
so really Gary, the loyal fans will still stand behind you! now what are you doing behind a computer reading this, shouldn't you be in a subaru getting faster ;)
-Ross
| BriDrive | 06-14-2006 12:20 PM |
I'm for Gary on this one all the way.
To sharpshoot Gary's reaction to these events is absurd to the highest degree.
"gregr01"...what are you trying to accomplish here? You're going to sit around and presume over the internet that you know what's in Gary's or anyone elses best PR interest? You walk in your shoes and respectfully allow others to walk in theirs.
BTW, the whole sad situation is pathetic, malicious, and needed to be called out.
If this had been me, thick skin and all, I still would have been infuriated and prone to respond. That's just part of doing the right thing...you know freedom,liberty,justice,etc...all those higher rights we enjoy.
BriDrive
To sharpshoot Gary's reaction to these events is absurd to the highest degree.
"gregr01"...what are you trying to accomplish here? You're going to sit around and presume over the internet that you know what's in Gary's or anyone elses best PR interest? You walk in your shoes and respectfully allow others to walk in theirs.
BTW, the whole sad situation is pathetic, malicious, and needed to be called out.
If this had been me, thick skin and all, I still would have been infuriated and prone to respond. That's just part of doing the right thing...you know freedom,liberty,justice,etc...all those higher rights we enjoy.
BriDrive
| platypus | 06-14-2006 12:53 PM |
Gary [b]absolutely[/b] must refute this "evidence" and make it perfectly clear to anyone who'll listen that he's not the psychopathic maniac that the video (and lynch-mob threads) would make him out to be. As a driver, all you've got is your results and your reputation. Defend your reputation, Gary!
| Samurai Jack | 06-14-2006 01:28 PM |
Gary is correct to dispute the way these vid clips are being presented. They DO affect his reputation, exactly as Gary has mentioned. Your reputation is everything and in an environment such as racing (among others), it doesn't always matter what some of your racing counterparts think (those who know him & that he wouldn't deliberately run someone off the track), it matters what all your racing counterparts perceive.
And if potential sponsers think you are/could possibly be a bad driver, you could have just lost an important sponsorship.
As for the two vid clips, it was obvious in Part #1, that there was no way to tell what was up w/Gary's hand raising. It could have been anything since no one was there but Gary & Neil.
As for Part #2, it was clearly obvious that Neil moved out into Gary's line and Gary had the right of way @ that point. Doesn't mean it was deliberate, it happens. Part of racing. The faster car is not always at fault.
What all the internet traffic clearly shows is that there is no limit to the ignorance of humans. Give them a chance, and someone will do exactly what was done with the vid clips. And then, of course, "billions and billions" of people will just believe it.
And if potential sponsers think you are/could possibly be a bad driver, you could have just lost an important sponsorship.
As for the two vid clips, it was obvious in Part #1, that there was no way to tell what was up w/Gary's hand raising. It could have been anything since no one was there but Gary & Neil.
As for Part #2, it was clearly obvious that Neil moved out into Gary's line and Gary had the right of way @ that point. Doesn't mean it was deliberate, it happens. Part of racing. The faster car is not always at fault.
What all the internet traffic clearly shows is that there is no limit to the ignorance of humans. Give them a chance, and someone will do exactly what was done with the vid clips. And then, of course, "billions and billions" of people will just believe it.
| GarySheehan | 06-14-2006 01:28 PM |
Good news! Yikers.com has removed the video from their site. Now I just have to get TunerTrader to do the same.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| Rally_wgn | 06-14-2006 01:30 PM |
I'm with Gary on this one. If you read the posts most viewers immediately believe the video to be what the punk poster intended to be. Until someone spoke up for Gary and posted his response and immediately ppl saw the truth.
I think it worth Gary's time to seek a court order to have these pulled. If he doenst then the nitwit will do another and another and another.
I think it worth Gary's time to seek a court order to have these pulled. If he doenst then the nitwit will do another and another and another.
| drees | 06-14-2006 02:03 PM |
[QUOTE=Rally_wgn]I think it worth Gary's time to seek a court order to have these pulled. If he doenst then the nitwit will do another and another and another.[/QUOTE]While it probably won't come to that, a simple phone call and/or email to each company hosting the video should be enough to get the videos taken down.
None of these companies want to deal with potential Copyright infringement as one case is all that's need to bankrupt them.
Now if they don't comply, stick it to them, Gary and put the proceeds in your pocket to help fund your racing! :devil:
None of these companies want to deal with potential Copyright infringement as one case is all that's need to bankrupt them.
Now if they don't comply, stick it to them, Gary and put the proceeds in your pocket to help fund your racing! :devil:
| Joel Gat, 1.8L | 06-14-2006 02:55 PM |
Hello,
When Gary first approached me about this, I said there was a copyright infringement and a defamation action available (defamation = both libel and slander, libel = "can be seen", slander = spoken). The best course for getting the videos taken down is to request that they be taken down. However, if the hosting site decides not to take it down, there's not much that can be done. I know how the law works in theory (err, I'm an ex-lawyer), but the harsh reality is that we who make our lives in racing tend to be broke or nearly broke. If you really wanted to enforce a copyright infringement or scare someone with a defamation suit, you can threaten it, and if they call your bluff, you have two choices - ask them nicely, again, or hire a lawyer, which costs lots of money, which is hard to do, for broke racer types.
A suit for damages in this type of case would take a lot of expert testimony, lawyer time, etc., and would cost a small arm and leg... and the hosting sites would have two defenses not easily beaten by the plaintiff (Gary, who would have the burden of proof) - fair comment (their titles for the videos were fair, given that as non-racers, they could hardly tell that this was a doctored video... though after they were notified, this defense becomes more questionable) and qualified privilege (so long as the web-hosts were not acting out of malice (ie, they weren't out to get Gary), they can claim the privilege to report allegations (Gary drove the Civic off the track) which, if true, would be in the public's interest to be published/posted).
And to add to the whole mess, a public correction and apology would end any civil liability. Yep, if Gary threatened to sue, the sites could replace the link/video with an "oops, we're sorry." and that would be the end of that...
This is all, of course, just in my opinion and is not legal advice :D
Joel
When Gary first approached me about this, I said there was a copyright infringement and a defamation action available (defamation = both libel and slander, libel = "can be seen", slander = spoken). The best course for getting the videos taken down is to request that they be taken down. However, if the hosting site decides not to take it down, there's not much that can be done. I know how the law works in theory (err, I'm an ex-lawyer), but the harsh reality is that we who make our lives in racing tend to be broke or nearly broke. If you really wanted to enforce a copyright infringement or scare someone with a defamation suit, you can threaten it, and if they call your bluff, you have two choices - ask them nicely, again, or hire a lawyer, which costs lots of money, which is hard to do, for broke racer types.
A suit for damages in this type of case would take a lot of expert testimony, lawyer time, etc., and would cost a small arm and leg... and the hosting sites would have two defenses not easily beaten by the plaintiff (Gary, who would have the burden of proof) - fair comment (their titles for the videos were fair, given that as non-racers, they could hardly tell that this was a doctored video... though after they were notified, this defense becomes more questionable) and qualified privilege (so long as the web-hosts were not acting out of malice (ie, they weren't out to get Gary), they can claim the privilege to report allegations (Gary drove the Civic off the track) which, if true, would be in the public's interest to be published/posted).
And to add to the whole mess, a public correction and apology would end any civil liability. Yep, if Gary threatened to sue, the sites could replace the link/video with an "oops, we're sorry." and that would be the end of that...
This is all, of course, just in my opinion and is not legal advice :D
Joel
| Patrick L | 06-15-2006 01:08 AM |
Gary just drives like he's in a NASCAR race all the time...............j/k Gary. LOL!!
Man, I am gone from the Motorsports forums for a most of the day and see what happens.
Forget about it Gary, we'll get are own NASIOC MAFIA after them. I'll get Nick the Cat after them.
Man, I am gone from the Motorsports forums for a most of the day and see what happens.
Forget about it Gary, we'll get are own NASIOC MAFIA after them. I'll get Nick the Cat after them.
| MRF582 | 06-15-2006 02:33 AM |
.02
When the civic passed the WRX in the first clip, that is NOT considered cutting off the other car. Minimizing distance during the pass can seem like 'cutting-off' to the untrained eye. Both cars were WOT, the civic made a perfectly clean pass. If the WRX driver had to brake because the civic passed too closely, that would be considered 'cutting-off'.
In the second clip, you can clearly see BOTH cars moving to the outside of the turn. The WRX gave the civic as much room as theoretically possible without going off-road. Either the civic had no idea the WRX was in it's blindspot, OR it was having trouble maintaining it's line due to understeer.
Basically, the civic should've held it's inside line till near the end of the corner.
When the civic passed the WRX in the first clip, that is NOT considered cutting off the other car. Minimizing distance during the pass can seem like 'cutting-off' to the untrained eye. Both cars were WOT, the civic made a perfectly clean pass. If the WRX driver had to brake because the civic passed too closely, that would be considered 'cutting-off'.
In the second clip, you can clearly see BOTH cars moving to the outside of the turn. The WRX gave the civic as much room as theoretically possible without going off-road. Either the civic had no idea the WRX was in it's blindspot, OR it was having trouble maintaining it's line due to understeer.
Basically, the civic should've held it's inside line till near the end of the corner.
| KC | 06-15-2006 07:48 AM |
[QUOTE=MRF582].02
When the civic passed the WRX in the first clip, that is NOT considered cutting off the other car. Minimizing distance during the pass can seem like 'cutting-off' to the untrained eye. Both cars were WOT, the civic made a perfectly clean pass. If the WRX driver had to brake because the civic passed too closely, that would be considered 'cutting-off'.[/QUOTE]
No ****? Really? I learned something new today. Thanks for clearing that up...especially when Gary, the guy DRIVING the car had me confused when he said this in the 1st post:
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]Neil Vanni (in the Honda) had so much more power in his car that he just popped out from behind me and passed me like I was standing still. I threw my hands up in the air because I was frustrated that the rules had crippled our WRX so much and had given the Hondas so much that our car was completely uncompetitive. Neil made a perfectly clean pass on the straight and I never even had to change my line.[/QUOTE]
But wait, you have more to add to help us understand things?
[QUOTE=MRF582]In the second clip, you can clearly see BOTH cars moving to the outside of the turn. The WRX gave the civic as much room as theoretically possible without going off-road. Either the civic had no idea the WRX was in it's blindspot, OR it was having trouble maintaining it's line due to understeer.
Basically, the civic should've held it's inside line till near the end of the corner.[/QUOTE]
Wow, you're good. Great way to read the video.... Since, yet again, Gary had confused us in the 1st post when he said this...
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]As Neil and I approached the Miata, Neil caught the Miata with bad timing and had to brake slightly. I had more room, didn't brake, and popped out to the left in an effort to use the Miata as a pick, trapping Neil behind the slower car and passing both of them at the same time. Unfortunately, Neil didn't check his left side mirror and pulled out around the Miata. I tried to give him room, but I ran out of road on my left and Neil kept coming across, contacted my right front with his left rear and began to spin counterclockwise as we left the track. [/QUOTE]
Thanks for the help in breaking down the video. I didn't get it at 1st when Gary, you know, the guy driving the WRX in the videos? explained it in the 1st post.
The world is better because of your clarity brought to this thread.
Gary, you need to write clearer. If it weren't for MRF582, I wouldn't had known how to take the videos. Work on that....
--kC
(Yes, I'm feeling surley this morning. Any of the above comments, if taken wrongly should be a reflection on me, and not NASIOC, nor the motorsports forum. Good day.)
When the civic passed the WRX in the first clip, that is NOT considered cutting off the other car. Minimizing distance during the pass can seem like 'cutting-off' to the untrained eye. Both cars were WOT, the civic made a perfectly clean pass. If the WRX driver had to brake because the civic passed too closely, that would be considered 'cutting-off'.[/QUOTE]
No ****? Really? I learned something new today. Thanks for clearing that up...especially when Gary, the guy DRIVING the car had me confused when he said this in the 1st post:
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]Neil Vanni (in the Honda) had so much more power in his car that he just popped out from behind me and passed me like I was standing still. I threw my hands up in the air because I was frustrated that the rules had crippled our WRX so much and had given the Hondas so much that our car was completely uncompetitive. Neil made a perfectly clean pass on the straight and I never even had to change my line.[/QUOTE]
But wait, you have more to add to help us understand things?
[QUOTE=MRF582]In the second clip, you can clearly see BOTH cars moving to the outside of the turn. The WRX gave the civic as much room as theoretically possible without going off-road. Either the civic had no idea the WRX was in it's blindspot, OR it was having trouble maintaining it's line due to understeer.
Basically, the civic should've held it's inside line till near the end of the corner.[/QUOTE]
Wow, you're good. Great way to read the video.... Since, yet again, Gary had confused us in the 1st post when he said this...
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]As Neil and I approached the Miata, Neil caught the Miata with bad timing and had to brake slightly. I had more room, didn't brake, and popped out to the left in an effort to use the Miata as a pick, trapping Neil behind the slower car and passing both of them at the same time. Unfortunately, Neil didn't check his left side mirror and pulled out around the Miata. I tried to give him room, but I ran out of road on my left and Neil kept coming across, contacted my right front with his left rear and began to spin counterclockwise as we left the track. [/QUOTE]
Thanks for the help in breaking down the video. I didn't get it at 1st when Gary, you know, the guy driving the WRX in the videos? explained it in the 1st post.
The world is better because of your clarity brought to this thread.
Gary, you need to write clearer. If it weren't for MRF582, I wouldn't had known how to take the videos. Work on that....
--kC
(Yes, I'm feeling surley this morning. Any of the above comments, if taken wrongly should be a reflection on me, and not NASIOC, nor the motorsports forum. Good day.)
| Impreza01 | 06-15-2006 10:53 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]No ****? Really? I learned something new today. Thanks for clearing that up...especially when Gary, the guy DRIVING the car had me confused when he said this in the 1st post:
But wait, you have more to add to help us understand things?
Wow, you're good. Great way to read the video.... Since, yet again, Gary had confused us in the 1st post when he said this...
Thanks for the help in breaking down the video. I didn't get it at 1st when Gary, you know, the guy driving the WRX in the videos? explained it in the 1st post.
The world is better because of your clarity brought to this thread.
Gary, you need to write clearer. If it weren't for MRF582, I wouldn't had known how to take the videos. Work on that....
--kC
(Yes, I'm feeling surley this morning. Any of the above comments, if taken wrongly should be a reflection on me, and not NASIOC, nor the motorsports forum. Good day.)[/QUOTE]
:lol:
But wait, you have more to add to help us understand things?
Wow, you're good. Great way to read the video.... Since, yet again, Gary had confused us in the 1st post when he said this...
Thanks for the help in breaking down the video. I didn't get it at 1st when Gary, you know, the guy driving the WRX in the videos? explained it in the 1st post.
The world is better because of your clarity brought to this thread.
Gary, you need to write clearer. If it weren't for MRF582, I wouldn't had known how to take the videos. Work on that....
--kC
(Yes, I'm feeling surley this morning. Any of the above comments, if taken wrongly should be a reflection on me, and not NASIOC, nor the motorsports forum. Good day.)[/QUOTE]
:lol:
| WRXedUSA | 06-15-2006 11:01 AM |
KC for teh beatdown!
| Capt Crunch | 06-15-2006 11:10 AM |
Man, gurus are surly!
I wonder if I'm surly.
I wonder if I'm surly.
| mofugga | 06-15-2006 11:17 AM |
kc must not have had his ensure yet this morning... :lol:
| Patrick L | 06-16-2006 12:11 AM |
He's one of the founding NASIOC Mafia members. :D
| TurboRX | 06-16-2006 01:08 AM |
although Im not Gary, this is what I would do IF I was him. I would start this thread, "calling for OT close air support" and asking my fans to understand what was shown and what really had happened. I would stay away from the idiots that posted in the first place as they are most likely too worthless to care what the truth is anyway, so an intelligent argument from a public figure wouldn't really help them. I would let my fans search out the questionable (bad) threads (just like Gary did here) and try to clear things up as only we can.
But thats just what I would do with my experience on the outside looking in. If you disagree with my POV, please feel free to ignore me. (I don't want Marshall to yell at me, 1 time was enough :D)
But thats just what I would do with my experience on the outside looking in. If you disagree with my POV, please feel free to ignore me. (I don't want Marshall to yell at me, 1 time was enough :D)
| MRF582 | 06-16-2006 02:53 AM |
nice shot :)
| gregr01 | 06-16-2006 10:45 AM |
[QUOTE=MPME]Sorry if everything you see, think, or regard should be filtered through false layers of media friendliness first, but believe it or not, it's OK for drivers, or any other type of professional to speak their mind.[/QUOTE] Nothing I've ever posted suggests that a driver shouldn't speak his mind. In the OP Gary's asking for help. My professional opinion is that his approach isn't the most effective one.
[QUOTE=MPME]As for counseling Gary, uh, he's about as smart a person as I know;[/QUOTE] I'm sure Gary is smart. Smart doesn't necessarily mean experienced. You are experienced. Your Web site says you've coached "Any [[i]sic[/i] - Andy] Pilgrim, Max Angelelli, and Max Papis," three of the most experienced drivers I've ever worked with. That's what I meant when I suggested you counsel Gary--your Web site also says you are a writer, so I assume you have some knowledge in that area as well. In my mind professional writing, knowledge of media law and PR savvy go hand in hand.
[QUOTE=MPME]that you see his post and equate it to a "public figure" needing thicker skin is laughable.[/QUOTE] Gary's post is not what originally made him a limited purpose public figure--simply the fact that he is a professional driver makes him one. For the purpose of discussion about his driving and racing-related activities, the bar is set much higher regarding libel or slander. I wrote "originally" because if he wasn't before, by thrusting himself into this debate--and certainly by positively identifying himself in the videos--there's no question he's now a public figure for the issue of the videos.
[QUOTE=MPME]Enjoy your Bill O'Reilly tonight, manufactured existence, and whatever other forms of detached living you enjoy.[/QUOTE] Never watched O'Reilly; don't watch any TV save for a tivo-ed race or two and Meet the Press. Not enough time in my day. Is a personal attack really necessary?
I believe Gary is overly concerned with these videos and the impact they may have. I understand his concerns, however, and suggested a better way to approach resolving issue, which is to get his copyright content removed from infringing sites.
[QUOTE=MPME]As for counseling Gary, uh, he's about as smart a person as I know;[/QUOTE] I'm sure Gary is smart. Smart doesn't necessarily mean experienced. You are experienced. Your Web site says you've coached "Any [[i]sic[/i] - Andy] Pilgrim, Max Angelelli, and Max Papis," three of the most experienced drivers I've ever worked with. That's what I meant when I suggested you counsel Gary--your Web site also says you are a writer, so I assume you have some knowledge in that area as well. In my mind professional writing, knowledge of media law and PR savvy go hand in hand.
[QUOTE=MPME]that you see his post and equate it to a "public figure" needing thicker skin is laughable.[/QUOTE] Gary's post is not what originally made him a limited purpose public figure--simply the fact that he is a professional driver makes him one. For the purpose of discussion about his driving and racing-related activities, the bar is set much higher regarding libel or slander. I wrote "originally" because if he wasn't before, by thrusting himself into this debate--and certainly by positively identifying himself in the videos--there's no question he's now a public figure for the issue of the videos.
[QUOTE=MPME]Enjoy your Bill O'Reilly tonight, manufactured existence, and whatever other forms of detached living you enjoy.[/QUOTE] Never watched O'Reilly; don't watch any TV save for a tivo-ed race or two and Meet the Press. Not enough time in my day. Is a personal attack really necessary?
I believe Gary is overly concerned with these videos and the impact they may have. I understand his concerns, however, and suggested a better way to approach resolving issue, which is to get his copyright content removed from infringing sites.
| MPME | 06-16-2006 09:09 PM |
[QUOTE=gregr01]Nothing I've ever posted suggests that a driver shouldn't speak his mind. In the OP Gary's asking for help. My professional opinion is that his approach isn't the most effective one.
I'm sure Gary is smart. Smart doesn't necessarily mean experienced. You are experienced. Your Web site says you've coached "Any [[i]sic[/i] - Andy] Pilgrim, Max Angelelli, and Max Papis," three of the most experienced drivers I've ever worked with. That's what I meant when I suggested you counsel Gary--your Web site also says you are a writer, so I assume you have some knowledge in that area as well. In my mind professional writing, knowledge of media law and PR savvy go hand in hand.
Gary's post is not what originally made him a limited purpose public figure--simply the fact that he is a professional driver makes him one. For the purpose of discussion about his driving and racing-related activities, the bar is set much higher regarding libel or slander. I wrote "originally" because if he wasn't before, by thrusting himself into this debate--and certainly by positively identifying himself in the videos--there's no question he's now a public figure for the issue of the videos.
Never watched O'Reilly; don't watch any TV save for a tivo-ed race or two and Meet the Press. Not enough time in my day. Is a personal attack really necessary?
I believe Gary is overly concerned with these videos and the impact they may have. I understand his concerns, however, and suggested a better way to approach resolving issue, which is to get his copyright content removed from infringing sites.[/QUOTE]
OK, you're right. My bad. We're infringing upon my limits of tolerating the "smartest guy in the room" thing.
No matter what anybody else says, you have to be the smartest guy in the room here. No problem.
As for who I've worked with, if someone posted the same type of video, I'd recommend they do the same thing. The difference here is that Gary, unlike most of those drivers, isn't paid six or seven figures to drive a racecar (yet). As a result, and knowing he doesn't have lots of $ to give to a lawyer to solve this problem as the welathier drivers I've worked with would opt to do, Gary picked the next smartest option: seeking public/forum support to quash this garbage.
Being of a linear mind, homey, doesn't always lend itself to handling different situations.
Gary handled things in as best a manner as he's able to, and as seen my the overwhelming support and removal of the videos, his methods have worked to both solve the problem and to save face.
That you only see one way to solve this is kinda silly, don't you think?
I'm sure Gary is smart. Smart doesn't necessarily mean experienced. You are experienced. Your Web site says you've coached "Any [[i]sic[/i] - Andy] Pilgrim, Max Angelelli, and Max Papis," three of the most experienced drivers I've ever worked with. That's what I meant when I suggested you counsel Gary--your Web site also says you are a writer, so I assume you have some knowledge in that area as well. In my mind professional writing, knowledge of media law and PR savvy go hand in hand.
Gary's post is not what originally made him a limited purpose public figure--simply the fact that he is a professional driver makes him one. For the purpose of discussion about his driving and racing-related activities, the bar is set much higher regarding libel or slander. I wrote "originally" because if he wasn't before, by thrusting himself into this debate--and certainly by positively identifying himself in the videos--there's no question he's now a public figure for the issue of the videos.
Never watched O'Reilly; don't watch any TV save for a tivo-ed race or two and Meet the Press. Not enough time in my day. Is a personal attack really necessary?
I believe Gary is overly concerned with these videos and the impact they may have. I understand his concerns, however, and suggested a better way to approach resolving issue, which is to get his copyright content removed from infringing sites.[/QUOTE]
OK, you're right. My bad. We're infringing upon my limits of tolerating the "smartest guy in the room" thing.
No matter what anybody else says, you have to be the smartest guy in the room here. No problem.
As for who I've worked with, if someone posted the same type of video, I'd recommend they do the same thing. The difference here is that Gary, unlike most of those drivers, isn't paid six or seven figures to drive a racecar (yet). As a result, and knowing he doesn't have lots of $ to give to a lawyer to solve this problem as the welathier drivers I've worked with would opt to do, Gary picked the next smartest option: seeking public/forum support to quash this garbage.
Being of a linear mind, homey, doesn't always lend itself to handling different situations.
Gary handled things in as best a manner as he's able to, and as seen my the overwhelming support and removal of the videos, his methods have worked to both solve the problem and to save face.
That you only see one way to solve this is kinda silly, don't you think?
| MPME | 06-16-2006 09:16 PM |
[I]Nothing I've ever posted suggests that a driver shouldn't speak his mind. In the OP Gary's asking for help. [I]My professional opinion is that his approach isn't the most effective one[/I].[/I]
BTW--what is your profession? You seem to have a much better understanding about how everyone else should practice theirs, so I'm sure you have a highly diverse background to draw from (especially for a "limited purpose public figure" like Gary--that one killed me, BTW. Snarky and mindless in just four words! Yahtzee!!!)
You've looked at my site (thanks for cathching the typo, BTW), drew from my experience in many fields, and deduced that I should be giving Gary better ([I]your[/I]) advice as a result.
As soon as I limit my own perspectives, and put horse blinders on, I'm sure your point will make sense.
Until then, and knowing each person and each situation requires it's own non-formulaic solution, I'll continue to give that situational advise as best I know.
BTW--what is your profession? You seem to have a much better understanding about how everyone else should practice theirs, so I'm sure you have a highly diverse background to draw from (especially for a "limited purpose public figure" like Gary--that one killed me, BTW. Snarky and mindless in just four words! Yahtzee!!!)
You've looked at my site (thanks for cathching the typo, BTW), drew from my experience in many fields, and deduced that I should be giving Gary better ([I]your[/I]) advice as a result.
As soon as I limit my own perspectives, and put horse blinders on, I'm sure your point will make sense.
Until then, and knowing each person and each situation requires it's own non-formulaic solution, I'll continue to give that situational advise as best I know.
| Joel Gat, 1.8L | 06-16-2006 10:18 PM |
Hello,
[QUOTE=MPME]BTW--what is your profession? You seem to have a much better understanding about how everyone else should practice theirs, so I'm sure you have a highly diverse background to draw from (especially for a "limited purpose public figure" like Gary--that one killed me, BTW. Snarky and mindless in just four words! Yahtzee!!!)[/QUOTE]
If I had to guess, I'd guess that gregr01 is something in the legal field. :)
[URL=http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=mwlaw&q=limited%20purpose%20public%20figure]Main Entry: limited purpose public figure
Function: noun
: a person who voluntarily and prominently participates in a public controversy for the purpose of influencing its outcome and who is thus required as a public figure to prove actual malice in a defamation suit called also limited public figure �compare PUBLIC FIGURE[/URL]
Seems an appropriate moniker, no?
Joel
[QUOTE=MPME]BTW--what is your profession? You seem to have a much better understanding about how everyone else should practice theirs, so I'm sure you have a highly diverse background to draw from (especially for a "limited purpose public figure" like Gary--that one killed me, BTW. Snarky and mindless in just four words! Yahtzee!!!)[/QUOTE]
If I had to guess, I'd guess that gregr01 is something in the legal field. :)
[URL=http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=mwlaw&q=limited%20purpose%20public%20figure]Main Entry: limited purpose public figure
Function: noun
: a person who voluntarily and prominently participates in a public controversy for the purpose of influencing its outcome and who is thus required as a public figure to prove actual malice in a defamation suit called also limited public figure �compare PUBLIC FIGURE[/URL]
Seems an appropriate moniker, no?
Joel
| MPME | 06-17-2006 12:20 AM |
[QUOTE=Joel Gat, 1.8L]Hello,
If I had to guess, I'd guess that gregr01 is something in the legal field. :)
[URL=http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=mwlaw&q=limited%20purpose%20public%20figure]Main Entry: limited purpose public figure
Function: noun
: a person who voluntarily and prominently participates in a public controversy for the purpose of influencing its outcome and who is thus required as a public figure to prove actual malice in a defamation suit called also limited public figure �compare PUBLIC FIGURE[/URL]
Seems an appropriate moniker, no?
Joel[/QUOTE]
[I] Really...he was hiding that one until you shed some light on it...as for an appropriate moniker, sure, you bet.[/I]
If I had to guess, I'd guess that gregr01 is something in the legal field. :)
[URL=http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=mwlaw&q=limited%20purpose%20public%20figure]Main Entry: limited purpose public figure
Function: noun
: a person who voluntarily and prominently participates in a public controversy for the purpose of influencing its outcome and who is thus required as a public figure to prove actual malice in a defamation suit called also limited public figure �compare PUBLIC FIGURE[/URL]
Seems an appropriate moniker, no?
Joel[/QUOTE]
[I] Really...he was hiding that one until you shed some light on it...as for an appropriate moniker, sure, you bet.[/I]
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