| Streetman | 10-27-2002 05:29 AM |
Why CART is dying.
Because they do stupid s,h,i,t like tonight. I'll make this short, if I can, through my rage.
Don't go to Australia, it's expensive, and no one is watching at 11 pm, on a Saturday night. Don't go anywhere oversees. You can't get the asses in the seats in the US, why load up those Fed Ex planes to go fail elsewhere. You've proven you can fail here, for less $$.
Don't race on street courses. It sucks for the fans at the track, and you can't pass, therefore making it suck for us TV viewers. Also, when cars spin, they get lined up like bowling pins, and people get hurt, like tonight.
Less than 20 cars can afford to race in this increasingly obscure series. And Chip is about to take his marbles to IRL only. He's a businessman, above all. So why is he going to go elsewhere?
BECAUSE YOU JACKASSES MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANY TEAMS TO MAKE MONEY!!!!
Race the road courses here, and in Canada. I think Mexico makes money too, so that's alright as well. Don't make it so damn expensive that no one can get in. Don't race on courses that no one can pass. And if you can't figure this out, sell it Bernie, and let him rape you idiots.
Open wheel on anything besides ovals is about to die.
Don't go to Australia, it's expensive, and no one is watching at 11 pm, on a Saturday night. Don't go anywhere oversees. You can't get the asses in the seats in the US, why load up those Fed Ex planes to go fail elsewhere. You've proven you can fail here, for less $$.
Don't race on street courses. It sucks for the fans at the track, and you can't pass, therefore making it suck for us TV viewers. Also, when cars spin, they get lined up like bowling pins, and people get hurt, like tonight.
Less than 20 cars can afford to race in this increasingly obscure series. And Chip is about to take his marbles to IRL only. He's a businessman, above all. So why is he going to go elsewhere?
BECAUSE YOU JACKASSES MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANY TEAMS TO MAKE MONEY!!!!
Race the road courses here, and in Canada. I think Mexico makes money too, so that's alright as well. Don't make it so damn expensive that no one can get in. Don't race on courses that no one can pass. And if you can't figure this out, sell it Bernie, and let him rape you idiots.
Open wheel on anything besides ovals is about to die.
| Streetman | 10-27-2002 06:14 AM |
I'm so pissed, I'm going to answer my own post.
What's wrong with Pikes Peak international raceway? Why do you have to disrupt the "Streets of Denver" to put on one more crap race, with no lead change? I watched that hunk of dung race, and nothing happened. I know a few people who live in Denver, and they said it sucked in the seats there. In fact, the only person I know who said the race was exciting was sitting next to Chip the whole race. Well, of course, with that kind of access, it would be interesting.
Are there a lack of good road courses in this country? What, Road Atlanta won't do? What about VIR? I'm sure someone is going to tell me how difficult it would be to get those tracks in order to host a CART event. Harder than shutting down a city, and hosting a cash killing event that bores the snot out of even an F1 fan?
Micky Mouse could run that series better. Go ahead, fine more for that, it's the only money CART will make this year.
God, I'm having a hard time staying a fan of this. I've attended club races with more excitement. Hell, I'm thinking I'm going to quit following CART, and I'll just head up to the figure 8 races with the local mental midgets. At least something happens there, every race.
What's wrong with Pikes Peak international raceway? Why do you have to disrupt the "Streets of Denver" to put on one more crap race, with no lead change? I watched that hunk of dung race, and nothing happened. I know a few people who live in Denver, and they said it sucked in the seats there. In fact, the only person I know who said the race was exciting was sitting next to Chip the whole race. Well, of course, with that kind of access, it would be interesting.
Are there a lack of good road courses in this country? What, Road Atlanta won't do? What about VIR? I'm sure someone is going to tell me how difficult it would be to get those tracks in order to host a CART event. Harder than shutting down a city, and hosting a cash killing event that bores the snot out of even an F1 fan?
Micky Mouse could run that series better. Go ahead, fine more for that, it's the only money CART will make this year.
God, I'm having a hard time staying a fan of this. I've attended club races with more excitement. Hell, I'm thinking I'm going to quit following CART, and I'll just head up to the figure 8 races with the local mental midgets. At least something happens there, every race.
| rkkwan | 10-27-2002 10:01 AM |
While I agree that CART sucks on many levels, (and I went to bed last night when then put the yellow back on after 9 laps and haven't checked what eventually happened), I disagree that Surfer's Paradise sucks.
Hundreds of thousands of Australians came to watch the race, the street course is better than most in the world, and Australian $ is very low. Other than the plane ticket to get there, Australia is not expensive.
Yes, it was a debacle last night, and I still haven't decided what to do in the future if it rains that hard. But it'd be wrong and stupid to stop racing there.
-Ray
Hundreds of thousands of Australians came to watch the race, the street course is better than most in the world, and Australian $ is very low. Other than the plane ticket to get there, Australia is not expensive.
Yes, it was a debacle last night, and I still haven't decided what to do in the future if it rains that hard. But it'd be wrong and stupid to stop racing there.
-Ray
| Bonzo | 10-27-2002 11:30 AM |
CART is the only show in town so I'm gonna watch em where ever they are. they still come to my home track and put on a good show. Street circuits are only for the tourism councils to deposit money downtown. Not for racing open wheeled cars. I do agree Surfers is an above average sreet circuit tho.
As for the crash, that was scary bad:eek: Luckily/amazingly no one was hurt much.
IRL can suck my caulk and so can the teams that jump ship to that st00pid series. Here's another bad mix, a concrete walled oval with high down force unforgiving cars. Dumb. I know for sure if it was'nt for Honda payin the bills M Andretti and Dario would not be goin.
so here's a big :monkey: to Penske, Green and any other cart team that jumps ship.
As for the crash, that was scary bad:eek: Luckily/amazingly no one was hurt much.
IRL can suck my caulk and so can the teams that jump ship to that st00pid series. Here's another bad mix, a concrete walled oval with high down force unforgiving cars. Dumb. I know for sure if it was'nt for Honda payin the bills M Andretti and Dario would not be goin.
so here's a big :monkey: to Penske, Green and any other cart team that jumps ship.
| WRXMaster | 10-27-2002 01:06 PM |
I have to agree I think the IRL sucks! I will not watch that crap! They are a little faster then a nascar. There is nothign special about going in circles for hours. I like cart but yea they need to get off of street courses.
| rkkwan | 10-27-2002 01:23 PM |
Running 6 laps under green and call it a race is ridiculous. And deciding a race based on who's crew chief can read minds (i.e. guessing when they're going to call the "race") is an insult to race fans across the globe.
They should have just cancelled the race and refund people's money.
Fortunately, the championship has already been decided. Otherwise, imagine the firestorm this morning.
-ray
They should have just cancelled the race and refund people's money.
Fortunately, the championship has already been decided. Otherwise, imagine the firestorm this morning.
-ray
| Billdo712 | 10-28-2002 02:36 AM |
i'm glad cart did what they did. give the win to a team that wants to leave it. ha! screw them and their chances, and they're money and sponsors. i love how cart handled the situation u screw us we screw u. i was laughing when it happened, my boss was confused that stupid hick. i think it's great.
| Streetman | 10-28-2002 03:08 AM |
Billdo,
Before I go totally off, answer me this...
Was that a race?
There were quite a few fans there, looking for a RACE. Was that a RACE?
Please, answer me that, before I go into 17 pages of what a load of crap spectacle, pile of crap, debacle, hunk of s,h,i,t, that was.
For those of you who don't know, CART scratched their balls on exactly when they were going to end a joke of a "race", which saw only a few laps under green, a potentially deadly crash, and no decision of when to call it until they had someone who was coming back next season. By the way, that is the only lap he has EVER, and let me state again, for emphisis, EVER lead in CART. One lap, one win. What a total joke.
I would have been more entertained by the few drivers who didn't get wasted in the opening crash to take off their suits, and play pickup sticks with their asses than to sit through that abortion for hours, only to see someone who has given their career to CART to get it right up the arse. Whatever you want to say, it was total bull****, horse****, dog****, cow****, whatever. It was a bunch of ****. And it hurts CART too. Bunch of idiots showing their arse on worldwide TV.
For the record, the short answer is "NO, that was not a race." But feel free to come up with whatever garbage you would like to throw at the miserable situation that was referred to as a "race"
I'm just glad I didn't write a whole bunch of garbage on why this wasn't a race. I'm so reserved.
<takes aim>Sincerely,</takes aim>
Streetman
Before I go totally off, answer me this...
Was that a race?
There were quite a few fans there, looking for a RACE. Was that a RACE?
Please, answer me that, before I go into 17 pages of what a load of crap spectacle, pile of crap, debacle, hunk of s,h,i,t, that was.
For those of you who don't know, CART scratched their balls on exactly when they were going to end a joke of a "race", which saw only a few laps under green, a potentially deadly crash, and no decision of when to call it until they had someone who was coming back next season. By the way, that is the only lap he has EVER, and let me state again, for emphisis, EVER lead in CART. One lap, one win. What a total joke.
I would have been more entertained by the few drivers who didn't get wasted in the opening crash to take off their suits, and play pickup sticks with their asses than to sit through that abortion for hours, only to see someone who has given their career to CART to get it right up the arse. Whatever you want to say, it was total bull****, horse****, dog****, cow****, whatever. It was a bunch of ****. And it hurts CART too. Bunch of idiots showing their arse on worldwide TV.
For the record, the short answer is "NO, that was not a race." But feel free to come up with whatever garbage you would like to throw at the miserable situation that was referred to as a "race"
I'm just glad I didn't write a whole bunch of garbage on why this wasn't a race. I'm so reserved.
<takes aim>Sincerely,</takes aim>
Streetman
| Streetman | 10-28-2002 04:54 AM |
again, I answer my own post in my rage....
rkkwan-
Australia not expensive? More expensive than traveling from Cleveland to Elkhart Lake, to Mid Ohio? Is there even a discussion here?
Dear CART,
You have had 6 years to prove that you can not get an arse in every seat. Congratulations, you are a stunning success. In fact, you have not even filled half of the seats available. You have totally blended in with all other forms of club racing/your own support series to not distinguish yourself from any other form of racing at all, and your TV ratings have shown this. You, sirs, have weathered the storm of your own stupidity.
Please send me a "How to lose money in motorsports" package, so I might submit my entry for next years debacle. I believe this was formerly known as "How to Run an Indy Car series Without Indy". I am to understand that I need unlimited funds, and should expect to make nothing, and most likely will lose everything. That being said, I would like to talk directly with Pooky, I mean, CEO Pook, about the possible ramifications of running a race on the moon. I have seen CART lose money on virtually every continent on this planet, but am not convinced that it has been proven that you can lose money everywhere in the entire world. Possibly, in time, we could lose money where no man has gone before.
Thank you for your timely response from the CEO de jour that might respond by the time you get to this letter. I understand that you have multiple cars racing next year, like, maybe over a dozen, and this might get lost in the shuffle. Might I suggest a slogan then, as you might distinguish this letter from your HUGE demand to enter the series.
"CART 2003, The Running of the Mental Midgets."
I eagerly await your response, as I have heard I might do quite well in your series.
Sincerly,
Mickey Mouse
p.s. What are pop-off valves, and can I put them on next year's normally aspirated, no character, one brand, engine to possible waste more money?
rkkwan-
Australia not expensive? More expensive than traveling from Cleveland to Elkhart Lake, to Mid Ohio? Is there even a discussion here?
Dear CART,
You have had 6 years to prove that you can not get an arse in every seat. Congratulations, you are a stunning success. In fact, you have not even filled half of the seats available. You have totally blended in with all other forms of club racing/your own support series to not distinguish yourself from any other form of racing at all, and your TV ratings have shown this. You, sirs, have weathered the storm of your own stupidity.
Please send me a "How to lose money in motorsports" package, so I might submit my entry for next years debacle. I believe this was formerly known as "How to Run an Indy Car series Without Indy". I am to understand that I need unlimited funds, and should expect to make nothing, and most likely will lose everything. That being said, I would like to talk directly with Pooky, I mean, CEO Pook, about the possible ramifications of running a race on the moon. I have seen CART lose money on virtually every continent on this planet, but am not convinced that it has been proven that you can lose money everywhere in the entire world. Possibly, in time, we could lose money where no man has gone before.
Thank you for your timely response from the CEO de jour that might respond by the time you get to this letter. I understand that you have multiple cars racing next year, like, maybe over a dozen, and this might get lost in the shuffle. Might I suggest a slogan then, as you might distinguish this letter from your HUGE demand to enter the series.
"CART 2003, The Running of the Mental Midgets."
I eagerly await your response, as I have heard I might do quite well in your series.
Sincerly,
Mickey Mouse
p.s. What are pop-off valves, and can I put them on next year's normally aspirated, no character, one brand, engine to possible waste more money?
| Orion | 10-28-2002 07:53 AM |
I witnessed the replay of that debacle last night...
OMG! What are those idiots thinking?
The way CART has been run in the last 4-5 years the DESERVE to fold. Right after the split it looked like CART was going to absolutely dominate open wheel. While I could never stand CART's arrogance, but I was fine with seeing a series with a good mix of tracks.
For the last few years they've made bad decision after bad decision. Cancelling a race 2 hours before it was supposed to be run (not exactly my idea of a good time if I'm drving up from Houston), changed engine formulas then 5 sec. later changed right back AFTER 2 of the manu's said :monkey: to them.
Now they're basically going to be a crappy spec series that Ford is going to lose more money on (i see this as a good thing actually) and CART will disappear into obscurity.
OMG! What are those idiots thinking?
The way CART has been run in the last 4-5 years the DESERVE to fold. Right after the split it looked like CART was going to absolutely dominate open wheel. While I could never stand CART's arrogance, but I was fine with seeing a series with a good mix of tracks.
For the last few years they've made bad decision after bad decision. Cancelling a race 2 hours before it was supposed to be run (not exactly my idea of a good time if I'm drving up from Houston), changed engine formulas then 5 sec. later changed right back AFTER 2 of the manu's said :monkey: to them.
Now they're basically going to be a crappy spec series that Ford is going to lose more money on (i see this as a good thing actually) and CART will disappear into obscurity.
| rkkwan | 10-28-2002 09:07 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Streetman [/i]
[B]again, I answer my own post in my rage....
rkkwan-
Australia not expensive? More expensive than traveling from Cleveland to Elkhart Lake, to Mid Ohio? Is there even a discussion here?
[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but I guess I have no idea to whom you're talking about. Are you talking about the teams, the organizations, the local fans, the US fans? Anyways, I think I've said what I need to say... :o
-Ray
[B]again, I answer my own post in my rage....
rkkwan-
Australia not expensive? More expensive than traveling from Cleveland to Elkhart Lake, to Mid Ohio? Is there even a discussion here?
[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but I guess I have no idea to whom you're talking about. Are you talking about the teams, the organizations, the local fans, the US fans? Anyways, I think I've said what I need to say... :o
-Ray
| NotAnRS | 10-28-2002 09:29 AM |
Man, I have only watched about 3 CART races this year. The predominance of ovals (great way to distinguish yourself from the Indy Replacement Losers) and the no-place-to-pass street courses has done it's best to alienate this one time rabid fan. I used to watch this series because it was incredibly competitive, had a great cast of characters with talent, and wasn't NA$CAR. I don't even care for open wheel cars that much, but overcame that to watch a good series.
Didn't care when they got booted from Indy. Just another circle track race with a lot of pomp, IMHO.
All I've got worth watching now is Speed World Challenge and the WRC. And thank gawd BTCC is starting soon.
CART, it was fun while it lasted. :(
Didn't care when they got booted from Indy. Just another circle track race with a lot of pomp, IMHO.
All I've got worth watching now is Speed World Challenge and the WRC. And thank gawd BTCC is starting soon.
CART, it was fun while it lasted. :(
| jaybird | 10-28-2002 10:27 AM |
I totally agree. I'm losing interest in all open wheel racing :( . CART Was my only hope. I was looking forward to the season. It's just been one big turd aftrer the next I watched the first couple rounds and gave up. The WRC started out well, but I'm getting sick of PUG 1,2,3. The best series this year is Speed World Challenge, ALMS and I hate to say it NA$CAR.
| rkkwan | 10-28-2002 10:27 AM |
They have actually moved away, correctly, from oval races. Of the 20 original dates this year, only 6 were ovals - and Lousitz in Germany was cancelled. So, it's 5 out of 19. Problem is a few of the street courses are super crappy.
Well, the fact is the American TV audience has spoken. They want to watch IRL, not CART. It's sad, but not much we can do about that. I'm just glad that at least there are some good road-racing series on Speed that are pretty interesting.
-Ray
Well, the fact is the American TV audience has spoken. They want to watch IRL, not CART. It's sad, but not much we can do about that. I'm just glad that at least there are some good road-racing series on Speed that are pretty interesting.
-Ray
| generator | 10-28-2002 10:28 AM |
Here's the thing I don't understand, CART wanted a single file start at the green flag. Bruno was side by side with DaMatta and they still started the race after previously yellow flagging numerous other starts when the drivers couldn't get lined up corectly. Where is the consistance in this sereies?
On top of that, when CART officials can see conditions are too poor that a competitive race can not be run, they decided to go on with it. In my opinion they should have run the race the next day when conditions were better. They race the next day if they get "rained out" on an oval, why can't the same rule apply on street courses??:confused:
Aside from that, CART officilas along with Wally Dollenbeck(sp?) decided the race victor. Bull S**T!!! I am not a Michael Andretti fan but he should have won that, and I use the term very lightly, "race". Why run 41 laps when 36 makes it an official event? It was obvious they could not go green under those conditions. If your going to run 41, then just parade around the circuit for the remaining 9 to make it the original 50 laps.
It really is too bad that CART can't get their heads out of their arses and figure this whole mess out.
On top of that, when CART officials can see conditions are too poor that a competitive race can not be run, they decided to go on with it. In my opinion they should have run the race the next day when conditions were better. They race the next day if they get "rained out" on an oval, why can't the same rule apply on street courses??:confused:
Aside from that, CART officilas along with Wally Dollenbeck(sp?) decided the race victor. Bull S**T!!! I am not a Michael Andretti fan but he should have won that, and I use the term very lightly, "race". Why run 41 laps when 36 makes it an official event? It was obvious they could not go green under those conditions. If your going to run 41, then just parade around the circuit for the remaining 9 to make it the original 50 laps.
It really is too bad that CART can't get their heads out of their arses and figure this whole mess out.
| Orion | 10-28-2002 11:17 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by generator [/i]
[B]
Aside from that, CART officilas along with Wally Dollenbeck(sp?) decided the race victor. Bull S**T!!! I am not a Michael Andretti fan but he should have won that, and I use the term very lightly, "race". Why run 41 laps when 36 makes it an official event? It was obvious they could not go green under those conditions. If your going to run 41, then just parade around the circuit for the remaining 9 to make it the original 50 laps.
It really is too bad that CART can't get their heads out of their arses and figure this whole mess out. [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually Chris Knieffel is the chief steward these days and it's supposed to be his call. Looks like some heavy hitters influenced him if you ask me.
I'm still wondering how they consider it a RACE when there were only 5-6 green flag laps. :confused: It was an insult to everyone involved, especially the paying fans.
[B]
Aside from that, CART officilas along with Wally Dollenbeck(sp?) decided the race victor. Bull S**T!!! I am not a Michael Andretti fan but he should have won that, and I use the term very lightly, "race". Why run 41 laps when 36 makes it an official event? It was obvious they could not go green under those conditions. If your going to run 41, then just parade around the circuit for the remaining 9 to make it the original 50 laps.
It really is too bad that CART can't get their heads out of their arses and figure this whole mess out. [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually Chris Knieffel is the chief steward these days and it's supposed to be his call. Looks like some heavy hitters influenced him if you ask me.
I'm still wondering how they consider it a RACE when there were only 5-6 green flag laps. :confused: It was an insult to everyone involved, especially the paying fans.
| Orion | 10-28-2002 11:28 AM |
Who are they kidding???
Transcript of the Official Press conference:
MERRILL CAIN: I'd like to bring up the members of the competition staff to answer a few questions about today's race. We're joined by Adam Saal, CART Vice President of Communications, CART Steward Chris Kneifel joins us, and Vice President of Racing Operations John Lopes joins us.
John, obviously a tough race, a lot of conditions that were thrown at us by Mother Nature today. If you could, a lot of the media here covering the series, talk about the process for shortening the race, what went into the decision, and to make it an official race, halfway point of the race, and why it was scheduled for 35 laps instead of when we originally decided to shorten the race.
JOHN LOPES: I'd like first to mention for those of you who haven't been around CART this year, typically when we have a great day of weather, they call it Pook weather. Chris announced the official end to the drought in Queensland. We might want to refer to that as Pook weather.
I want to congratulation the members of the racing operations staff today. They had a difficult task at race control, faced with some very difficult questions throughout the race. Secondly, I think the fans got an unfortunately up-close view of our safety team in action at the beginning of the race. They are the best in the business, did an amazing job with something we always fear, and that's a dual extrication where you actually have to take two drivers out of a car.
To answer your question, typically race distances are calculated based upon a TV window. For this particular race, the halfway mark was 36 laps. A race is official when it is run halfway, or 36 laps, per the rule book. So the race became official at 36 laps.
MERRILL CAIN: Because the original distance was set for 70?
JOHN LOPES: Yes. Basically that's a short synopsis. The way we calculate 70 laps at the beginning is based on a two-hour, 10-minute window for television.
MERRILL CAIN: Despite the fact that after the accident we shortened the race by 20 laps, you went back to the original distance to determine half the race?
JOHN LOPES: The way the rule book reads is that the official distance for the race, it's an official race, halfway of the covered scheduled distance, which was 70. So officially the race halfway mark was 36 no matter how we shortened the race throughout.
MERRILL CAIN: Chris Kneifel, if you could speak to the issue, the conditions that the drivers faced during the course of this race was obviously very difficult. Talk about the measures that race control took to try and make it as competitive a race as we could, and make it safe for the competitors.
CHRIS KNEIFEL: Obviously, Mother Nature got the better side of us today, no question about that.
Not having really done this with this type of weather here in Australia before, we thought the track conditions permitted to go ahead and get the race started. We chose initially going for a single-file start. We asked the drivers to give some spacing. Obviously, that didn't happen on the first start. Turned into a bad situation on the front straightaway in the obvious red flag situation. During the cleanup, the rains came again shortly after we got restarted. We just got upside down and were never able to get back on top of it.
We were hoping to have better things happen today; it just didn't work out.
MERRILL CAIN: Adam Saal, if you could speak to the situation. A tough situation, tough decisions. You've been through a lot of these races. You know how tough the decision to make is.
ADAM SAAL: That is actually why I'm joining, because we did have a great weekend here. It seemed we were in a completely different situation today. That's Australia. One day it seems fine, next day literally the skies open up.
It was a great event. Many milestones this weekend. Incredible attendance. We also made it clear we're going to be back here through 2008 with a great continuation of a great event. This is definitely a memorable one.
But frankly we've been through some dark and rainy races here before. We always managed come back and have a great time. I'd like to thank IMG, Jeff Jones, John Cawley and everybody on the crew who made it a great effort for us, it was an outstanding event. Again, not the result we wanted weather wise but we made it work.
I want to thank these guys for coming here directly. I explained to them that it's late in the day, they came in to speak with all of you. We do appreciate that.
MERRILL CAIN: Because of the late hour, we want to take some questions from the media quickly.
Q: Chris Kneifel, given the conditions at the start, does that present a case for rolling starts to come under review in those conditions?
CHRIS KNEIFEL: Rolling starts versus standing starts? That's an ongoing debate. We had a CART fan forum in Columbus, Ohio, a few months back. A lot of our fans love the standing starts. I guess it's an ongoing question. It's something we consider all the time. Right now, this is how we start our races.
I have to tell you, you can have some pretty awful stack-ups with standing starts, as well. The incident today , it's something that happened. You can have a bad deal like that with a standing start. We had some contact that led to track blockage and guys ran into each other.
Q: If the race could have been called at 36 laps, why wasn't it? I think Michael Andretti might have won at 36 laps. Perhaps because he's going to IRL, that wasn't a desirable outcome?
JOHN LOPES: Absolutely not. In fact, I observed the stewards making their decision, and it was a very tough decision. Chris, you might want to elaborate on this. We were in a situation where there were several drivers cycled to have pit stops on Laps 36 and 37. As such, the stewards didn't want to play God and choose who was going to win the race. What they did is they stepped aside and they convened and decided what was the best way to conduct the finish of the race. That was to have the race go as long as possible with respect to dwindling daylight, and pit cycles, everyone through their pit stops at least two times.
So what happened was, in effect, everyone cycled through twice, and they let the race go for as long as possible, and they called it at Lap 40.
MERRILL CAIN: Chris, do you want to elaborate?
CHRIS KNEIFEL: Keeping the maximum number for the pit stop window 20 laps, that kind of became the magic number. Forty, 41 was the magic number. Obviously, as we crept closer to 40, the weather persisted in a downward trend. Light was obviously difficult. Our pace car was also running out of gas.
Q: You were playing God. You have this half distance rule in atrocious conditions where it seemed you should finish the race as soon as possible, you let it go on another four laps, turned the results upside down. With all due respect to Mario, the guy is dead last, spends half the race in the pits, it doesn't seem to me that you're being very consistent about playing God because you really shouldn't have extended four laps in these conditions on the safety issue thing.
CHRIS KNEIFEL: I would venture to guess no matter what lap we picked, there was going to be people that were happy and people that were not happy, and possibly even more than unhappy. I think that goes without saying. It's not our job to worry about who we please and who we don't please, nor is it our job to look and see who might win, who might not win, based on the different strategies that play out.
It's our job to make every attempt to make decisions that are based on integrity and thoughtfulness. We really believe that getting to a point where everyone will have had to make an equal number of pit stops was a fair decision. Obviously, in the Michael Andretti situation, they pitted I believe Lap 16, which would have took him to 36, which would have been the number that it became an official race.
If you wanted to really look carefully into that, there would be a very interesting rule book interpretation based on that because technically he was due in the pits at Lap 36. I would venture to guess, although I certainly would not be so presumptuous to speak for everyone, but I would venture to guess the cars immediately behind Michael at that time, which were the two of the cars, I believe there was a third one, but for sure the Team Rahal car, Vasser and Jourdain, I'm not sure which order, but Team Rahal pitted on Lap 17. It's entirely possible they had a different interpretation of that rule.
All I'm saying is, we were in a situation. No matter where we came down on this one, it wasn't pretty. We're very aware of that. Days like this don't make us happy because there's nothing that I personally care more about than our drivers and our teams in this racing series. When it goes the wrong way on us, we're very aware of that. It's just our job to make the best decisions we can and to be fair and have integrity and move along.
I can assure you that any insinuation that I and my fellow stewards made a decision that was based on doing something wrong to Michael Andretti because of his decision to go race in another series, that's just wrong, that's wrong. I've known Michael for many, many years. I don't do things like that.
Q: Do you have the name of the pace car driver?
CHRIS KNEIFEL: Gail Truess.
Q: Chris, when it looks as bad as it did, there wasn't any racing going on, why not red flag it and come back tomorrow? You have a big crowd here, the consideration of the people. Can you think about a red flag at all?
CHRIS KNEIFEL: Nothing would have made me happier than to red flag it and come back tomorrow.
JOHN LOPES: We actually talked to the promoter early on in the race to see if we could race tomorrow. He said, 'No.' It has to do with business interruption and street closure issues. On an oval, typically we would red flag the race and come back and race the next day. That wasn't an option. We also wanted to give the fans, who paid their money, traveled so far to be here, a chance to see the cars on track. We also wanted to have a checkered flag. If not, if we would have red flagged the race, we would have had one of the races in the championship go without points awarded.
We decided to move forward in a very, very difficult situation. It was really our only option.
Q: There appeared to be an animated conversation behind the garage. Could you tell me the substance? Slight delay from the 3:15 reschedule.
CHRIS KNEIFEL: Would you be referring when we got the drivers together?
Q: Yes.
CHRIS KNEIFEL: Actually, I wouldn't categorize that as animated at all. I just thought there were a lot of questions, and the best thing to do was to get all the drivers together, make sure that we're all on the same page as to what we were going to do procedurally to carry on with the race, make sure we had a good understanding of when we were looking for in terms of going ahead and getting the race restarted.
The input of these guys is invaluable. It's their butts that are on the line out there. It's important that they were all on the same page in knowing and understanding what we were looking to do. Truth be known, the guys came up with some excellent ideas and some very valuable input as to how we chose to go ahead and get the race restarted.
Having that dialogue with the guys, it's very important. It's one of those things that they pulled together when they need to.
ADAM SAAL: If I could add a little bit to that. Dario Franchitti took it upon himself to come up to the tower and offer some very positive and constructive and very cordial recommendations.
CHRIS KNEIFEL: This was a new one in my book, both as an official and driver.
MERRILL CAIN: Thank you very much. We appreciate the job that you guys do. Thanks for joining us this afternoon.
MERRILL CAIN: I'd like to bring up the members of the competition staff to answer a few questions about today's race. We're joined by Adam Saal, CART Vice President of Communications, CART Steward Chris Kneifel joins us, and Vice President of Racing Operations John Lopes joins us.
John, obviously a tough race, a lot of conditions that were thrown at us by Mother Nature today. If you could, a lot of the media here covering the series, talk about the process for shortening the race, what went into the decision, and to make it an official race, halfway point of the race, and why it was scheduled for 35 laps instead of when we originally decided to shorten the race.
JOHN LOPES: I'd like first to mention for those of you who haven't been around CART this year, typically when we have a great day of weather, they call it Pook weather. Chris announced the official end to the drought in Queensland. We might want to refer to that as Pook weather.
I want to congratulation the members of the racing operations staff today. They had a difficult task at race control, faced with some very difficult questions throughout the race. Secondly, I think the fans got an unfortunately up-close view of our safety team in action at the beginning of the race. They are the best in the business, did an amazing job with something we always fear, and that's a dual extrication where you actually have to take two drivers out of a car.
To answer your question, typically race distances are calculated based upon a TV window. For this particular race, the halfway mark was 36 laps. A race is official when it is run halfway, or 36 laps, per the rule book. So the race became official at 36 laps.
MERRILL CAIN: Because the original distance was set for 70?
JOHN LOPES: Yes. Basically that's a short synopsis. The way we calculate 70 laps at the beginning is based on a two-hour, 10-minute window for television.
MERRILL CAIN: Despite the fact that after the accident we shortened the race by 20 laps, you went back to the original distance to determine half the race?
JOHN LOPES: The way the rule book reads is that the official distance for the race, it's an official race, halfway of the covered scheduled distance, which was 70. So officially the race halfway mark was 36 no matter how we shortened the race throughout.
MERRILL CAIN: Chris Kneifel, if you could speak to the issue, the conditions that the drivers faced during the course of this race was obviously very difficult. Talk about the measures that race control took to try and make it as competitive a race as we could, and make it safe for the competitors.
CHRIS KNEIFEL: Obviously, Mother Nature got the better side of us today, no question about that.
Not having really done this with this type of weather here in Australia before, we thought the track conditions permitted to go ahead and get the race started. We chose initially going for a single-file start. We asked the drivers to give some spacing. Obviously, that didn't happen on the first start. Turned into a bad situation on the front straightaway in the obvious red flag situation. During the cleanup, the rains came again shortly after we got restarted. We just got upside down and were never able to get back on top of it.
We were hoping to have better things happen today; it just didn't work out.
MERRILL CAIN: Adam Saal, if you could speak to the situation. A tough situation, tough decisions. You've been through a lot of these races. You know how tough the decision to make is.
ADAM SAAL: That is actually why I'm joining, because we did have a great weekend here. It seemed we were in a completely different situation today. That's Australia. One day it seems fine, next day literally the skies open up.
It was a great event. Many milestones this weekend. Incredible attendance. We also made it clear we're going to be back here through 2008 with a great continuation of a great event. This is definitely a memorable one.
But frankly we've been through some dark and rainy races here before. We always managed come back and have a great time. I'd like to thank IMG, Jeff Jones, John Cawley and everybody on the crew who made it a great effort for us, it was an outstanding event. Again, not the result we wanted weather wise but we made it work.
I want to thank these guys for coming here directly. I explained to them that it's late in the day, they came in to speak with all of you. We do appreciate that.
MERRILL CAIN: Because of the late hour, we want to take some questions from the media quickly.
Q: Chris Kneifel, given the conditions at the start, does that present a case for rolling starts to come under review in those conditions?
CHRIS KNEIFEL: Rolling starts versus standing starts? That's an ongoing debate. We had a CART fan forum in Columbus, Ohio, a few months back. A lot of our fans love the standing starts. I guess it's an ongoing question. It's something we consider all the time. Right now, this is how we start our races.
I have to tell you, you can have some pretty awful stack-ups with standing starts, as well. The incident today , it's something that happened. You can have a bad deal like that with a standing start. We had some contact that led to track blockage and guys ran into each other.
Q: If the race could have been called at 36 laps, why wasn't it? I think Michael Andretti might have won at 36 laps. Perhaps because he's going to IRL, that wasn't a desirable outcome?
JOHN LOPES: Absolutely not. In fact, I observed the stewards making their decision, and it was a very tough decision. Chris, you might want to elaborate on this. We were in a situation where there were several drivers cycled to have pit stops on Laps 36 and 37. As such, the stewards didn't want to play God and choose who was going to win the race. What they did is they stepped aside and they convened and decided what was the best way to conduct the finish of the race. That was to have the race go as long as possible with respect to dwindling daylight, and pit cycles, everyone through their pit stops at least two times.
So what happened was, in effect, everyone cycled through twice, and they let the race go for as long as possible, and they called it at Lap 40.
MERRILL CAIN: Chris, do you want to elaborate?
CHRIS KNEIFEL: Keeping the maximum number for the pit stop window 20 laps, that kind of became the magic number. Forty, 41 was the magic number. Obviously, as we crept closer to 40, the weather persisted in a downward trend. Light was obviously difficult. Our pace car was also running out of gas.
Q: You were playing God. You have this half distance rule in atrocious conditions where it seemed you should finish the race as soon as possible, you let it go on another four laps, turned the results upside down. With all due respect to Mario, the guy is dead last, spends half the race in the pits, it doesn't seem to me that you're being very consistent about playing God because you really shouldn't have extended four laps in these conditions on the safety issue thing.
CHRIS KNEIFEL: I would venture to guess no matter what lap we picked, there was going to be people that were happy and people that were not happy, and possibly even more than unhappy. I think that goes without saying. It's not our job to worry about who we please and who we don't please, nor is it our job to look and see who might win, who might not win, based on the different strategies that play out.
It's our job to make every attempt to make decisions that are based on integrity and thoughtfulness. We really believe that getting to a point where everyone will have had to make an equal number of pit stops was a fair decision. Obviously, in the Michael Andretti situation, they pitted I believe Lap 16, which would have took him to 36, which would have been the number that it became an official race.
If you wanted to really look carefully into that, there would be a very interesting rule book interpretation based on that because technically he was due in the pits at Lap 36. I would venture to guess, although I certainly would not be so presumptuous to speak for everyone, but I would venture to guess the cars immediately behind Michael at that time, which were the two of the cars, I believe there was a third one, but for sure the Team Rahal car, Vasser and Jourdain, I'm not sure which order, but Team Rahal pitted on Lap 17. It's entirely possible they had a different interpretation of that rule.
All I'm saying is, we were in a situation. No matter where we came down on this one, it wasn't pretty. We're very aware of that. Days like this don't make us happy because there's nothing that I personally care more about than our drivers and our teams in this racing series. When it goes the wrong way on us, we're very aware of that. It's just our job to make the best decisions we can and to be fair and have integrity and move along.
I can assure you that any insinuation that I and my fellow stewards made a decision that was based on doing something wrong to Michael Andretti because of his decision to go race in another series, that's just wrong, that's wrong. I've known Michael for many, many years. I don't do things like that.
Q: Do you have the name of the pace car driver?
CHRIS KNEIFEL: Gail Truess.
Q: Chris, when it looks as bad as it did, there wasn't any racing going on, why not red flag it and come back tomorrow? You have a big crowd here, the consideration of the people. Can you think about a red flag at all?
CHRIS KNEIFEL: Nothing would have made me happier than to red flag it and come back tomorrow.
JOHN LOPES: We actually talked to the promoter early on in the race to see if we could race tomorrow. He said, 'No.' It has to do with business interruption and street closure issues. On an oval, typically we would red flag the race and come back and race the next day. That wasn't an option. We also wanted to give the fans, who paid their money, traveled so far to be here, a chance to see the cars on track. We also wanted to have a checkered flag. If not, if we would have red flagged the race, we would have had one of the races in the championship go without points awarded.
We decided to move forward in a very, very difficult situation. It was really our only option.
Q: There appeared to be an animated conversation behind the garage. Could you tell me the substance? Slight delay from the 3:15 reschedule.
CHRIS KNEIFEL: Would you be referring when we got the drivers together?
Q: Yes.
CHRIS KNEIFEL: Actually, I wouldn't categorize that as animated at all. I just thought there were a lot of questions, and the best thing to do was to get all the drivers together, make sure that we're all on the same page as to what we were going to do procedurally to carry on with the race, make sure we had a good understanding of when we were looking for in terms of going ahead and getting the race restarted.
The input of these guys is invaluable. It's their butts that are on the line out there. It's important that they were all on the same page in knowing and understanding what we were looking to do. Truth be known, the guys came up with some excellent ideas and some very valuable input as to how we chose to go ahead and get the race restarted.
Having that dialogue with the guys, it's very important. It's one of those things that they pulled together when they need to.
ADAM SAAL: If I could add a little bit to that. Dario Franchitti took it upon himself to come up to the tower and offer some very positive and constructive and very cordial recommendations.
CHRIS KNEIFEL: This was a new one in my book, both as an official and driver.
MERRILL CAIN: Thank you very much. We appreciate the job that you guys do. Thanks for joining us this afternoon.
| rkkwan | 10-28-2002 11:44 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by generator [/i]
[B]On top of that, when CART officials can see conditions are too poor that a competitive race can not be run, they decided to go on with it. In my opinion they should have run the race the next day when conditions were better. They race the next day if they get "rained out" on an oval, why can't the same rule apply on street courses??:confused: [/B][/QUOTE]
From the Speed coverage, it's mentioned that since those are real streets in a real city, the contract says they have to open the streets after a specific time. So they cannot run the race the next day.
But if it's not safe to run a race, then cancel it and refund the spectators! They did it at Texas couple years ago.
-Ray
[B]On top of that, when CART officials can see conditions are too poor that a competitive race can not be run, they decided to go on with it. In my opinion they should have run the race the next day when conditions were better. They race the next day if they get "rained out" on an oval, why can't the same rule apply on street courses??:confused: [/B][/QUOTE]
From the Speed coverage, it's mentioned that since those are real streets in a real city, the contract says they have to open the streets after a specific time. So they cannot run the race the next day.
But if it's not safe to run a race, then cancel it and refund the spectators! They did it at Texas couple years ago.
-Ray
| Orion | 10-28-2002 11:49 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rkkwan [/i]
[B]
But if it's not safe to run a race, then cancel it and refund the spectators! They did it at Texas couple years ago.
-Ray [/B][/QUOTE]
don't remind me!:mad:
[B]
But if it's not safe to run a race, then cancel it and refund the spectators! They did it at Texas couple years ago.
-Ray [/B][/QUOTE]
don't remind me!:mad:
| Streetman | 10-28-2002 01:54 PM |
Texas was a huge bunglefuc k. You don't want that again. Moreover, if they refunded all that money, the series probably couldn't have paid for gas for those big arse Fed Ex jets (that they're so proud of) to fly all that crap home. They're just about broke, and next year is looking worse.
My point, earlier, about going to Australia is that it is expensive for the teams to run there. Say what you want about IRL, but it is competitive. Any weekend, anyone of those guys (or even the chick) can win it. Why? IRL made it so cheap for teams to run, they attracted tons of teams and drivers. Remember Jack Miller, the dentist? How cool is that? You think he could have financed a few oversees trips when he ran? NO. And there's no need to. The world already has another open wheeled series that is equally as non-competitive, and stife with controversy. It's called WWF1.
That press conferencee was very telling. First, the top dog, Pooky, makes the final call to hose Andretti. Make no mistake what he was thinking. Second, did you notice all the times they toughted the race as a success?
[QUOTE]It was a great event. Many milestones this weekend. Incredible attendance. We also made it clear we're going to be back here through 2008 with a great continuation of a great event. This is definitely a memorable one. [/QUOTE]
What a moron. Was he even there?
Or did you notice they just stepped right over the fact that there was a potentially deadly crash in their decision to race? You think if someone had gotten hit just right, and died, they'd just be saying "These things happen." Yeah, when the series is run with total idiots, these things will happen. I think the only reason someone isn't dead right not is because the rain just let the cars slide, like shuffleboard pucks. A dry track, and their would have been more than two cars upside down.
Also notice the total lack of understanding what a fan might want. They just patted themselves on the back for such a huge crowd, and said they wanted the fans to see the cars on the track. Yeah, I always go to a race thinking, I just want to see some cars on a track. If I just see a few parade laps, that'll be good enough for me. I'd like to see how many races I can attend where there is no lead change on track. Can anyone tell me when there has been an on track lead change this season? I can only recall one, all season.
Here's my favorites though:
[QUOTE]It's not our job to worry about who we please and who we don't please[/QUOTE] Good one, it shows.
[QUOTE]there's nothing that I personally care more about than our drivers and our teams in this racing series.[/QUOTE] Oh, so that's why you don't have any fans. They're secondary, I guess.
Total incompetancy. These jackasses couldn't please a fan if you drew them a diagram. Can't wait to see a whopping dozen cars return next year. That should make for some real tight competition. Idiots.
SELL IT TO BERNIE ALREADY YOU CHOADS!!!
My point, earlier, about going to Australia is that it is expensive for the teams to run there. Say what you want about IRL, but it is competitive. Any weekend, anyone of those guys (or even the chick) can win it. Why? IRL made it so cheap for teams to run, they attracted tons of teams and drivers. Remember Jack Miller, the dentist? How cool is that? You think he could have financed a few oversees trips when he ran? NO. And there's no need to. The world already has another open wheeled series that is equally as non-competitive, and stife with controversy. It's called WWF1.
That press conferencee was very telling. First, the top dog, Pooky, makes the final call to hose Andretti. Make no mistake what he was thinking. Second, did you notice all the times they toughted the race as a success?
[QUOTE]It was a great event. Many milestones this weekend. Incredible attendance. We also made it clear we're going to be back here through 2008 with a great continuation of a great event. This is definitely a memorable one. [/QUOTE]
What a moron. Was he even there?
Or did you notice they just stepped right over the fact that there was a potentially deadly crash in their decision to race? You think if someone had gotten hit just right, and died, they'd just be saying "These things happen." Yeah, when the series is run with total idiots, these things will happen. I think the only reason someone isn't dead right not is because the rain just let the cars slide, like shuffleboard pucks. A dry track, and their would have been more than two cars upside down.
Also notice the total lack of understanding what a fan might want. They just patted themselves on the back for such a huge crowd, and said they wanted the fans to see the cars on the track. Yeah, I always go to a race thinking, I just want to see some cars on a track. If I just see a few parade laps, that'll be good enough for me. I'd like to see how many races I can attend where there is no lead change on track. Can anyone tell me when there has been an on track lead change this season? I can only recall one, all season.
Here's my favorites though:
[QUOTE]It's not our job to worry about who we please and who we don't please[/QUOTE] Good one, it shows.
[QUOTE]there's nothing that I personally care more about than our drivers and our teams in this racing series.[/QUOTE] Oh, so that's why you don't have any fans. They're secondary, I guess.
Total incompetancy. These jackasses couldn't please a fan if you drew them a diagram. Can't wait to see a whopping dozen cars return next year. That should make for some real tight competition. Idiots.
SELL IT TO BERNIE ALREADY YOU CHOADS!!!
| generator | 10-28-2002 02:25 PM |
[QUOTE]CHRIS KNEIFEL: Rolling starts versus standing starts? That's an ongoing debate. We had a CART fan forum in Columbus, Ohio, a few months back. A lot of our fans love the standing starts. I guess it's an ongoing question. It's something we consider all the time. Right now, this is how we start our races. [/QUOTE]
This coming from the chief steward of a series that has enough issues just getting through turn 1 cleanly???
It is sad to say that CART is doomed for failure. I will still follow the series next seaon only because it used to be a great series to watch. That and the way it looks, it might CART's last...
This coming from the chief steward of a series that has enough issues just getting through turn 1 cleanly???
It is sad to say that CART is doomed for failure. I will still follow the series next seaon only because it used to be a great series to watch. That and the way it looks, it might CART's last...
| ForzaF1 | 10-28-2002 07:45 PM |
[QUOTE]Open wheel on anything besides ovals is about to die.[/QUOTE]
What makes you think it will be any more successful on ovals? The IRL is a joke that is watched by no more people than watch CART (except for the iRL 500 which is dropping every year, NASCAR would be embarressed and in emergency mode if the Daytona 500 got the same ratings the Indy 500 does). If (and thats a big 'if') CART can make it through the next 2 years, it will outlive the IRL IMO.
CART should forget the silly ovals and concentrate on roads and streets IMO. Sure the Surfers Paradise thing was embaressing, but they were in between a rock and a hrad place, there could be no Monday race there. It hadn't rained in 5 months, and the fact that it did on race day was not CART's fault.
Ordinarily the SP race is a good one, the street course is excellent and the setting spectacular. Based on ticket sales the event is a huge success, and CART should continue to go there IMO (in fact they sigbed a 8 year extention on the contract)
CART has fans outside the US, there is no need for it only schedule races that are US TV firendly. The non-US fans are just as important to the series survival as the US fan, if not more so, as it seems that fans and sponors here can't see past NASCAR (or the fading name-recognition of the Indy 500).
What makes you think it will be any more successful on ovals? The IRL is a joke that is watched by no more people than watch CART (except for the iRL 500 which is dropping every year, NASCAR would be embarressed and in emergency mode if the Daytona 500 got the same ratings the Indy 500 does). If (and thats a big 'if') CART can make it through the next 2 years, it will outlive the IRL IMO.
CART should forget the silly ovals and concentrate on roads and streets IMO. Sure the Surfers Paradise thing was embaressing, but they were in between a rock and a hrad place, there could be no Monday race there. It hadn't rained in 5 months, and the fact that it did on race day was not CART's fault.
Ordinarily the SP race is a good one, the street course is excellent and the setting spectacular. Based on ticket sales the event is a huge success, and CART should continue to go there IMO (in fact they sigbed a 8 year extention on the contract)
CART has fans outside the US, there is no need for it only schedule races that are US TV firendly. The non-US fans are just as important to the series survival as the US fan, if not more so, as it seems that fans and sponors here can't see past NASCAR (or the fading name-recognition of the Indy 500).
| Streetman | 10-29-2002 06:45 AM |
[QUOTE]What makes you think it will be any more successful on ovals?[/QUOTE] Never said it would be more successful on ovals. I hate ovals. The IRL does have some exciting racing though. Close, competitive racing at 200 MPH plus. And as far as CART outliving IRL, guess again. The IRL has what, 30 cars, and more like 40 next season? CART might get 20, if Chip comes back, and Jupiter aligns with Mars. They don't have two years anymore. They're as good as their last race.
[QUOTE]there could be no Monday race there[/QUOTE]
Great reason to axe streets. No contigency plan for the unevitable. Weather will happen, it's how you weather that weather that determines wheteher you will be around next year. Make sense?
[QUOTE]...was not CART's fault[/QUOTE] Yeah, and when the series fails, I'm sure it won't be their fault. However, it will still fail, regardless of what crap they blame it on.
[QUOTE]Based on ticket sales the event is a huge success[/QUOTE] Based on ticket sales, the Indy 500 is a huge success, but yet you feel obligated to dismiss it as a failure (compared to NECKCAR), because of ratings. What kind of ratings did that thing in Oz have? Did it help the series where it counts? Read, help it to survive another year. They can sign a 30 year contract for all I care. Doesn't mean they'll be around to fulfill it.
[QUOTE]CART has fans outside the US, there is no need for it only schedule races that are US TV firendly.[/QUOTE] What I care about is does it bring the arses to the seats, and the sponsors to the races. Bottom line, is it profitable? Do you really think Oz showed a profit? And let's go out on a huge limb here, and say it did. Does it make sense to spend that kind of $$ to make that profit? How do you expect a new team to raise the capital to get there, and make a profit? I have no clue if Oz turned a profit, but I really don't care. It' doesn't take a genious to figure out that it takes a hellovalot more to turn a proffit there, than it does for a team to come to Indy, and make $$. Study static vs. dynamic forecasting. You'll find CART is full of tons of their own theory, and pomp, for that matter, and is falling on their face.
Pretty rough business you run when you make Tony George look smart.
I'm more unhappy than anyone here that CART is still pissing in the wind. I don't want it to die, but damn, it's hard even for me to watch anymore.
I've said it before, I'll say it again...you can't polish a turd.
As a businessman, I'd sell to Bernie while the value was still high enough to get something out of it. As a race fan, I'd still sell it to Bernie just to shake things up, and see what happens. what are the other options? Is there a magic roadcourse/openwheled genie going to run the pile of dung next year, and fix everything? Worst case scenario, you get swallowed up by the IRL, and force them to run a few road courses in their season. Hey, when you are faced with no series, or a series with only a few road courses, what are you going to do?
BTW, I know where I can pick up about 20 sets of popoff valves real cheap. Morons.
[QUOTE]there could be no Monday race there[/QUOTE]
Great reason to axe streets. No contigency plan for the unevitable. Weather will happen, it's how you weather that weather that determines wheteher you will be around next year. Make sense?
[QUOTE]...was not CART's fault[/QUOTE] Yeah, and when the series fails, I'm sure it won't be their fault. However, it will still fail, regardless of what crap they blame it on.
[QUOTE]Based on ticket sales the event is a huge success[/QUOTE] Based on ticket sales, the Indy 500 is a huge success, but yet you feel obligated to dismiss it as a failure (compared to NECKCAR), because of ratings. What kind of ratings did that thing in Oz have? Did it help the series where it counts? Read, help it to survive another year. They can sign a 30 year contract for all I care. Doesn't mean they'll be around to fulfill it.
[QUOTE]CART has fans outside the US, there is no need for it only schedule races that are US TV firendly.[/QUOTE] What I care about is does it bring the arses to the seats, and the sponsors to the races. Bottom line, is it profitable? Do you really think Oz showed a profit? And let's go out on a huge limb here, and say it did. Does it make sense to spend that kind of $$ to make that profit? How do you expect a new team to raise the capital to get there, and make a profit? I have no clue if Oz turned a profit, but I really don't care. It' doesn't take a genious to figure out that it takes a hellovalot more to turn a proffit there, than it does for a team to come to Indy, and make $$. Study static vs. dynamic forecasting. You'll find CART is full of tons of their own theory, and pomp, for that matter, and is falling on their face.
Pretty rough business you run when you make Tony George look smart.
I'm more unhappy than anyone here that CART is still pissing in the wind. I don't want it to die, but damn, it's hard even for me to watch anymore.
I've said it before, I'll say it again...you can't polish a turd.
As a businessman, I'd sell to Bernie while the value was still high enough to get something out of it. As a race fan, I'd still sell it to Bernie just to shake things up, and see what happens. what are the other options? Is there a magic roadcourse/openwheled genie going to run the pile of dung next year, and fix everything? Worst case scenario, you get swallowed up by the IRL, and force them to run a few road courses in their season. Hey, when you are faced with no series, or a series with only a few road courses, what are you going to do?
BTW, I know where I can pick up about 20 sets of popoff valves real cheap. Morons.
| Streetman | 10-29-2002 07:01 AM |
BTW, if you guys havn't realized, I'm from Indy. I remember before the whole split, when the Indy 500 was still the Indy 500. I remember putting in my request for tickets the day after the race, for next year's race. I kid you not, it took my family 4 years of upgrading to get to the front straight. Four years of seeing 12 feet of track before we could make it to the paddock. and even at that, we didn't get the seats in the shade.
I remember Mears, and Andretti, and "Emo", and "AJ", Rayhaul, Rutherford, Unser, Goodyear, and on, and on.
Now what do I get? Can you even name the last three years' winners? How about just last year?
Something else, I get free tickets every year now. In fact, I don't even settle for free tickets. I need to be in a suite to go. If you live in Indy, you know someone who's not using their tickets. I swear, in the last five years, I've only gone to the races where I've gotten tickets to a corporate suite. Why would I go to a race where I know that whoever wins is going to be someone from CART who's stepped up, just for that race.
Someone tell me who has won the last five years at Indy, and where they came from.
CART, are you listening? Get your s,h,i,t together already, or sell to someone. It's becoming painful to watch.
I remember Mears, and Andretti, and "Emo", and "AJ", Rayhaul, Rutherford, Unser, Goodyear, and on, and on.
Now what do I get? Can you even name the last three years' winners? How about just last year?
Something else, I get free tickets every year now. In fact, I don't even settle for free tickets. I need to be in a suite to go. If you live in Indy, you know someone who's not using their tickets. I swear, in the last five years, I've only gone to the races where I've gotten tickets to a corporate suite. Why would I go to a race where I know that whoever wins is going to be someone from CART who's stepped up, just for that race.
Someone tell me who has won the last five years at Indy, and where they came from.
CART, are you listening? Get your s,h,i,t together already, or sell to someone. It's becoming painful to watch.
| Orion | 10-29-2002 07:41 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Streetman [/i]
[B]
Now what do I get? Can you even name the last three years' winners? How about just last year?
Something else, I get free tickets every year now. In fact, I don't even settle for free tickets. I need to be in a suite to go. If you live in Indy, you know someone who's not using their tickets. I swear, in the last five years, I've only gone to the races where I've gotten tickets to a corporate suite. [/B][/QUOTE]
2002 - Helio, 2001 - Helio, 2000 - JPM, 1999 - Kenny Brack, 1998 n- Eddie Cheever, 1997 - Arie Luyendyk, 1996 - Buddy Lazier.
Can you get me in next year?:D It will only be a short drive over from Columbus, OH for me.:)
I've pretty much been on the IRL side of the fence only because I despised what CART became after the split. They never bothered to care what the fans wanted. Scheduling racing into a TV window isn't racing. It's complete BS. You run a specified number of laps, a specified distance, or a specified time and STICK TO IT regardless of a TV window!!! They were on SPEED for goodness sake! What were they going to bump? Hi-Rev Tuners? Maybe a crappy boat show? They pulled similar crap here in Houston for the GP's so I never bothered to go after the first one.
[B]
Now what do I get? Can you even name the last three years' winners? How about just last year?
Something else, I get free tickets every year now. In fact, I don't even settle for free tickets. I need to be in a suite to go. If you live in Indy, you know someone who's not using their tickets. I swear, in the last five years, I've only gone to the races where I've gotten tickets to a corporate suite. [/B][/QUOTE]
2002 - Helio, 2001 - Helio, 2000 - JPM, 1999 - Kenny Brack, 1998 n- Eddie Cheever, 1997 - Arie Luyendyk, 1996 - Buddy Lazier.
Can you get me in next year?:D It will only be a short drive over from Columbus, OH for me.:)
I've pretty much been on the IRL side of the fence only because I despised what CART became after the split. They never bothered to care what the fans wanted. Scheduling racing into a TV window isn't racing. It's complete BS. You run a specified number of laps, a specified distance, or a specified time and STICK TO IT regardless of a TV window!!! They were on SPEED for goodness sake! What were they going to bump? Hi-Rev Tuners? Maybe a crappy boat show? They pulled similar crap here in Houston for the GP's so I never bothered to go after the first one.
| ForzaF1 | 10-29-2002 10:15 AM |
[QUOTE]Based on ticket sales, the Indy 500 is a huge success, but yet you feel obligated to dismiss it as a failure (compared to NECKCAR), because of ratings.[/QUOTE]
Because thats what counts to the sponsors, TV ratings. I bring up the I500's mediocre ratings because that race is what is fueling the IRL & the split of sponsors dollars between CART & the IRL is what has destroyed open wheel racing in the US. Teams are going to the IRL because the sponsors' marketing departments think they can make better advertising copy out of being in that race than in CART.
But the Indy 500 doesn't mean much anymore as evidenced by the TV ratings. There have been 15 NASCAR races this season that have had higher TV ratings than the Indy 500, and the Indy 500 is getting a smaller audience each year.
WHen that race finaly becomes totaly irrelevant what will we be left with, the IRL? An oval only series that races in front of millions of empty aluminum bleachers through out the Midwest. Once it has served its purpose the Frances will kill it off by severing the NASCAR and IRL tickets and kicking them out of the ISC tracks.
I am amzed that people mistake the IRL's show with "competitive racing". I'm sorry but they are not really racing. Sure they are going very fast close together, but the IRL tells them how much wing to run. And guess what its way more than any good driver would put on his car. But hey so long as it means that the cars all go the same speed and drill great big holes in the air for drafting so they all go around in a great big pack & it looks good on TV.
Its not racing though, a good driver would want to take some wing off the car and go faster down the straight even if he has to lift for the corners and balance on the edge through each corners.
But in the IRL he can't do that, they are full throttle all the way round, and when you do that you can take some denist off the street and have him run in the same pack as people who know what they are doing.
Sooner or later the IRL is going to kill a bunch of people and that will be the end of the IRL.
Because thats what counts to the sponsors, TV ratings. I bring up the I500's mediocre ratings because that race is what is fueling the IRL & the split of sponsors dollars between CART & the IRL is what has destroyed open wheel racing in the US. Teams are going to the IRL because the sponsors' marketing departments think they can make better advertising copy out of being in that race than in CART.
But the Indy 500 doesn't mean much anymore as evidenced by the TV ratings. There have been 15 NASCAR races this season that have had higher TV ratings than the Indy 500, and the Indy 500 is getting a smaller audience each year.
WHen that race finaly becomes totaly irrelevant what will we be left with, the IRL? An oval only series that races in front of millions of empty aluminum bleachers through out the Midwest. Once it has served its purpose the Frances will kill it off by severing the NASCAR and IRL tickets and kicking them out of the ISC tracks.
I am amzed that people mistake the IRL's show with "competitive racing". I'm sorry but they are not really racing. Sure they are going very fast close together, but the IRL tells them how much wing to run. And guess what its way more than any good driver would put on his car. But hey so long as it means that the cars all go the same speed and drill great big holes in the air for drafting so they all go around in a great big pack & it looks good on TV.
Its not racing though, a good driver would want to take some wing off the car and go faster down the straight even if he has to lift for the corners and balance on the edge through each corners.
But in the IRL he can't do that, they are full throttle all the way round, and when you do that you can take some denist off the street and have him run in the same pack as people who know what they are doing.
Sooner or later the IRL is going to kill a bunch of people and that will be the end of the IRL.
| Orion | 10-29-2002 01:32 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ForzaF1 [/i]
[B]
Sooner or later the IRL is going to kill a bunch of people and that will be the end of the IRL. [/B][/QUOTE]
It's already happened in the IRL, at Charlotte.
CART has more casualties since the split though, both on the track and in the stands.
[B]
Sooner or later the IRL is going to kill a bunch of people and that will be the end of the IRL. [/B][/QUOTE]
It's already happened in the IRL, at Charlotte.
CART has more casualties since the split though, both on the track and in the stands.
| generator | 10-29-2002 02:37 PM |
If CART could figure out a way to market their product better, the sponsors would stick around. Unfortunatley there isn't the market for open wheel road racing in America. Most Americans want to see a "go straight turn left, go straight turn left" race. Personally I feel that oval racing of any sort is boring to watch, I never even enjoyed watching the champ cars on ovals. I think CART is past the point of no return with most sponsors and unfortunately alot of its' fans as well.:(
| Orbiter | 10-30-2002 12:02 AM |
It will be a sad day if/when CART does fold. I really dont think the series can survive loing with 1 engine manufacturer and no american born drivers for next year.
I like the idea of temporary street circuits when done properly. It lets cities like Toronto and Vancouver participate.
I heard Mr Pook say hes got a big announcement to make during SEMA. Well I will keep my fingers crossed and I'll continue to support CART till the end.
I like the idea of temporary street circuits when done properly. It lets cities like Toronto and Vancouver participate.
I heard Mr Pook say hes got a big announcement to make during SEMA. Well I will keep my fingers crossed and I'll continue to support CART till the end.
| rkkwan | 10-30-2002 12:33 AM |
Problem with closing CART will be reduced revenue on some of the road courses in the US, like Mid-Ohio or Road America. I hope the effect won't be too bad, or else we'll see worse facility, maintainence, etc. And that'll also dampen the recent revivals of road circuits in the US.
-Ray
-Ray
| Streetman | 10-30-2002 01:22 AM |
[QUOTE]I heard Mr Pook say hes got a big announcement to make during SEMA[/QUOTE]
Could this be that Bernie is about to throw wads of cash at the series? Please, throw something at it.
Could this be that Bernie is about to throw wads of cash at the series? Please, throw something at it.
| rkkwan | 10-30-2002 10:43 AM |
If I were Bernie, I'd try to force CART into bankcruptcy filing, and then pick up the pieces for cheap. Then I'll turn the series into F3 - where there are already plenty of chassis and engines available around the world. Running them will be relatively cheap, and it will also attract plenty of young drivers from N and S America as well as East Asia, because they now have a valid and good chance of making it to Formula 1.
Sure, F1 is dying itself, but at least it's not dead like CART yet.
-Ray
Sure, F1 is dying itself, but at least it's not dead like CART yet.
-Ray
| generator | 10-30-2002 01:40 PM |
[QUOTE] I really dont think the series can survive loing with 1 engine manufacturer and no american born drivers for next year[/QUOTE]
Isn't Jimmy Vasser going to continue in CART?? AS far as one engine manufacturer, CART is just one step closer to becoming a spec series before they fold.
[QUOTE]I heard Mr Pook say hes got a big announcement to make during SEMA. Well I will keep my fingers crossed and I'll continue to support CART till the end[/QUOTE]
Orbiter-- thats where I am sitting as well.
Isn't Jimmy Vasser going to continue in CART?? AS far as one engine manufacturer, CART is just one step closer to becoming a spec series before they fold.
[QUOTE]I heard Mr Pook say hes got a big announcement to make during SEMA. Well I will keep my fingers crossed and I'll continue to support CART till the end[/QUOTE]
Orbiter-- thats where I am sitting as well.
| Orbiter | 10-30-2002 06:50 PM |
Oh my mistake I forgot about Vasser..
I wonder who the new title sponsor will be next year.. anyone hear any rumors??
Also looks like Alex Yoong from F1 is going to be in CART next year.. hopefully that will spark some more interest in the series..
I wonder who the new title sponsor will be next year.. anyone hear any rumors??
Also looks like Alex Yoong from F1 is going to be in CART next year.. hopefully that will spark some more interest in the series..
| generator | 10-30-2002 08:02 PM |
I would say that Fed Ex would still be the main sponsor, unless anybody knows something I don't know??
As far as Alex Yoong is concerned, he is also looking at his options in the IRL, so who knows where he will end up. He isn't exactly a well known name like Andretti or Montoya(neither of whom I like) so I don't see that if he does get a ride in CART it would spark anybody's intrest except a few Minardi fans. That's the one good thing CART had going for it, Andretti is a name that most recognize, so CART had the advantage there for a while, and he has alot of fans due to his father's success in both F1 and CART. Now that attention will be shifted to the IRL. However I don't see why Yoong would want to jump into a series that only offers oval racing. He did, after all, come from a series that does not have any intrest in oval racing. All of his background is in road courses. So who knows...
As far as Alex Yoong is concerned, he is also looking at his options in the IRL, so who knows where he will end up. He isn't exactly a well known name like Andretti or Montoya(neither of whom I like) so I don't see that if he does get a ride in CART it would spark anybody's intrest except a few Minardi fans. That's the one good thing CART had going for it, Andretti is a name that most recognize, so CART had the advantage there for a while, and he has alot of fans due to his father's success in both F1 and CART. Now that attention will be shifted to the IRL. However I don't see why Yoong would want to jump into a series that only offers oval racing. He did, after all, come from a series that does not have any intrest in oval racing. All of his background is in road courses. So who knows...
| Streetman | 10-30-2002 10:21 PM |
FedEX signed a contract in 2001, for 2002, and the option of four more years. Notice, option. They don't release what the details are, but I get from reading between the lines that neither party has obligated themselves. Now that I think of it, if CART did ever lock FedEX in, I'm sure they'd be all over the press, telling everyone how they're really not going to die.
Just a little FYI about sponsors, and CART crapping out. I know that Cleveland won't get sponsored by Marconi next year. On top of that, US Bank doesn't see CART as much of a great investment either. Wanna get sick? I know from people on the inside that they are looking to make that into a NASCAR event in the future.
Say what you want about NASCRAP, they do know how to get the arses to the seats. Maybe it helps that their drivers are American? Hmmm...Maybe there is no hope for CART. Maybe I just need to accept it, and wait for the end. That sucks though.
Sell it Bernie, prop it up for another couple years, maybe an American or two will get into it by then. Hell, their might even be a new sponsor or two. Now, if they could just find a fanbase somewhere.
Just a little FYI about sponsors, and CART crapping out. I know that Cleveland won't get sponsored by Marconi next year. On top of that, US Bank doesn't see CART as much of a great investment either. Wanna get sick? I know from people on the inside that they are looking to make that into a NASCAR event in the future.
Say what you want about NASCRAP, they do know how to get the arses to the seats. Maybe it helps that their drivers are American? Hmmm...Maybe there is no hope for CART. Maybe I just need to accept it, and wait for the end. That sucks though.
Sell it Bernie, prop it up for another couple years, maybe an American or two will get into it by then. Hell, their might even be a new sponsor or two. Now, if they could just find a fanbase somewhere.
| thng | 10-31-2002 04:59 AM |
Not to start anything weird but I heard a rumor that when teams bail out (Toyota, Honda?, etc) that CART was discussing with one of the engine manufacturers the possibility of supplying engines for the series as the "spec engine" supplier for 2 years (Atlantic or FF(??)) while they figure out how to revive the series in the long term.
Further, that discussions with the teams lead to an agreement of sorts that approved this concept.
Even before this rumor there was also something going around that a manufacturer and one of the very well known teams got together to try and destroy CART. The manufacturer in question was involved in paying all the teams that ran their engine to run their engines. Seemingly, all of this was to try and make the "local" competing series be the only game in town.
Again, these are rumors! I just thought I'd throw this in since the discussion seems to be surrounding the demise of CART. I didn't know if this was hogwash when I first heard it but the hole this stuff came from was associated with someone pretty high up in a very well known engine manufacturer.
I wrote this post this way because I wasn't sure if naming names was a good idea right now...but maybe nobody really gives a hoot one way or another.
Ted
Further, that discussions with the teams lead to an agreement of sorts that approved this concept.
Even before this rumor there was also something going around that a manufacturer and one of the very well known teams got together to try and destroy CART. The manufacturer in question was involved in paying all the teams that ran their engine to run their engines. Seemingly, all of this was to try and make the "local" competing series be the only game in town.
Again, these are rumors! I just thought I'd throw this in since the discussion seems to be surrounding the demise of CART. I didn't know if this was hogwash when I first heard it but the hole this stuff came from was associated with someone pretty high up in a very well known engine manufacturer.
I wrote this post this way because I wasn't sure if naming names was a good idea right now...but maybe nobody really gives a hoot one way or another.
Ted
| Orion | 10-31-2002 10:19 AM |
FedEx is out as title sponsor, the announcement was made the other day. I'd find a link, but I'm out of town right now. I [i]think[/i] there's a news blurb on SPEED's website about it.
| generator | 10-31-2002 01:15 PM |
[QUOTE][i]
Even before this rumor there was also something going around that a manufacturer and one of the very well known teams got together to try and destroy CART. The manufacturer in question was involved in paying all the teams that ran their engine to run their engines. Seemingly, all of this was to try and make the "local" competing series be the only game in town.
Again, these are rumors! I just thought I'd throw this in since the discussion seems to be surrounding the demise of CART. I didn't know if this was hogwash when I first heard it but the hole this stuff came from was associated with someone pretty high up in a very well known engine manufacturer.
Ted [/B][/QUOTE]
If this is true, then it looks like CART has even more of an up-hill climb then I had originally thought. This definately looks like the end of the road for CART.
As far as Fed Ex not being the title Sponsor anymore, thats really too bad. Who else can CART get?? I can see it now..."The UPS Championship Series" What a joke!
Even before this rumor there was also something going around that a manufacturer and one of the very well known teams got together to try and destroy CART. The manufacturer in question was involved in paying all the teams that ran their engine to run their engines. Seemingly, all of this was to try and make the "local" competing series be the only game in town.
Again, these are rumors! I just thought I'd throw this in since the discussion seems to be surrounding the demise of CART. I didn't know if this was hogwash when I first heard it but the hole this stuff came from was associated with someone pretty high up in a very well known engine manufacturer.
Ted [/B][/QUOTE]
If this is true, then it looks like CART has even more of an up-hill climb then I had originally thought. This definately looks like the end of the road for CART.
As far as Fed Ex not being the title Sponsor anymore, thats really too bad. Who else can CART get?? I can see it now..."The UPS Championship Series" What a joke!
| Streetman | 10-31-2002 06:33 PM |
You misunderstood. FedEX is back for next year. I was just pointing out that the way the contract is written, even though it is four years, they do not have to come back for all four years. And I suppose, if CART were to find someone else, they could use the new company as the sponsor.
HA! I just read what I worte. CART finding a new sponsor!!! I kill me.
HA! I just read what I worte. CART finding a new sponsor!!! I kill me.
| Cigar2 | 10-31-2002 08:39 PM |
CART ain't dead yet. The attendance figure's for CART are 2 million plus.
They that on the second day of the OZ race. And for Mexico City the number of people there could be a half billion people at the max for the final totals.
The minimal number could be 250,000 people for the weekend total's. Anf cart has averaged something like 130,000 fans and that number is from just up to Monteal.
Cart tv rating's have average 1.2 with a high of 1.5 at Miami with almost a three share.
So lets remeber Cart isn't dead yet. Not by a long shot.
They that on the second day of the OZ race. And for Mexico City the number of people there could be a half billion people at the max for the final totals.
The minimal number could be 250,000 people for the weekend total's. Anf cart has averaged something like 130,000 fans and that number is from just up to Monteal.
Cart tv rating's have average 1.2 with a high of 1.5 at Miami with almost a three share.
So lets remeber Cart isn't dead yet. Not by a long shot.
| Streetman | 11-01-2002 06:28 AM |
Can you clairify? 2 milliion for the season? what about Oz? I really didn't get what you were saying. You have a typo.
Here's what I know. the Indy 500 brings in about 500,000 people. That's today. It used to be higher, when you could just pay $10 to go get drunk in the infield during the race. For those of you who were there for the USGP, that was only 125,000. I know they said Cleveland brought in 50,000. I was shocked to hear that, because I was there. I didn't see that many. Then I heard Robin Miller laugh about that number too. Much fewer. And I'll let you know, that was about 50% corporate. Not a whole lot of race fans there.
Just to put this into scale, the entire city of Indianapolis only has 850,000 people, and is the 12th largest city in the US. 12th largest, with less than million. Look it up. I'm sure of it. Back in the day, when Indy car, was still Indy car, the size of the city doubled on race day. That's a whole crap heap of people.
2 million for CART has to be for the year. They're not dead yet, but they've got one foot in the grave.
Here's what I know. the Indy 500 brings in about 500,000 people. That's today. It used to be higher, when you could just pay $10 to go get drunk in the infield during the race. For those of you who were there for the USGP, that was only 125,000. I know they said Cleveland brought in 50,000. I was shocked to hear that, because I was there. I didn't see that many. Then I heard Robin Miller laugh about that number too. Much fewer. And I'll let you know, that was about 50% corporate. Not a whole lot of race fans there.
Just to put this into scale, the entire city of Indianapolis only has 850,000 people, and is the 12th largest city in the US. 12th largest, with less than million. Look it up. I'm sure of it. Back in the day, when Indy car, was still Indy car, the size of the city doubled on race day. That's a whole crap heap of people.
2 million for CART has to be for the year. They're not dead yet, but they've got one foot in the grave.
| Streetman | 11-01-2002 06:36 AM |
Bonzo,
Do you have any guesstimate of what Elkhart does each year? Just curious. and btw, add one more to it, as I will make it, for sure next year. I know there might only be a dozen cars on the track but the bars in that town rock. All 3 of em! I'll drive 5 hours for a $1.25 "tapper" of Linenkugals. F the racing. Hell, it might be the last year for it.
js
Do you have any guesstimate of what Elkhart does each year? Just curious. and btw, add one more to it, as I will make it, for sure next year. I know there might only be a dozen cars on the track but the bars in that town rock. All 3 of em! I'll drive 5 hours for a $1.25 "tapper" of Linenkugals. F the racing. Hell, it might be the last year for it.
js
| rkkwan | 11-01-2002 10:24 AM |
That 2-million attendance figure is of course for the year. But most of those come in places like Australia, Mexico and Canada. Without those, there's no way they can average 100,000 spectators per event.
-Ray
-Ray
| SCCARacr | 11-01-2002 10:41 AM |
:eek: Reality is that CART is dead . . . Attendance figures are inflated, and while there are a few great events (Long Beach and Elkhart), the rest have attendance just because the Circus came to town.
Sponsors are fleeing (FedEx probably WON'T be back next year), Jimmy Vasser has been lurking in the NASCAR garage, Christian Fittipaldi has a Petty ride, and the remaining drivers are, for the most part, unknown here in the US, except to a cadre of Open Wheel faithful.
Say what you will about NASCAR, but 150,000+ Average race day attendance speaks volumes . . . CART #'s are for the entire weekend.
And I'm a devout road Race fan, and racer, I'm just not blind!:mad:
Sponsors are fleeing (FedEx probably WON'T be back next year), Jimmy Vasser has been lurking in the NASCAR garage, Christian Fittipaldi has a Petty ride, and the remaining drivers are, for the most part, unknown here in the US, except to a cadre of Open Wheel faithful.
Say what you will about NASCAR, but 150,000+ Average race day attendance speaks volumes . . . CART #'s are for the entire weekend.
And I'm a devout road Race fan, and racer, I'm just not blind!:mad:
| SCCARacr | 11-01-2002 10:47 AM |
:eek: Reality is that CART is dead . . . Attendance figures are inflated, and while there are a few great events (Long Beach and Elkhart), the rest have attendance just because the Circus came to town.
Sponsors are fleeing (FedEx probably WON'T be back next year), Jimmy Vasser has been lurking in the NASCAR garage, Christian Fittipaldi has a Petty ride, and the remaining drivers are, for the most part, unknown here in the US, except to a cadre of Open Wheel faithful.
Say what you will about NASCAR, but 150,000+ Average race day attendance speaks volumes . . . CART #'s are for the entire weekend.
And I'm a devout road Race fan, and racer, I'm just not blind!:mad:
Sponsors are fleeing (FedEx probably WON'T be back next year), Jimmy Vasser has been lurking in the NASCAR garage, Christian Fittipaldi has a Petty ride, and the remaining drivers are, for the most part, unknown here in the US, except to a cadre of Open Wheel faithful.
Say what you will about NASCAR, but 150,000+ Average race day attendance speaks volumes . . . CART #'s are for the entire weekend.
And I'm a devout road Race fan, and racer, I'm just not blind!:mad:
| Bonzo | 11-01-2002 01:20 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Streetman [/i]
[B]Bonzo,
Do you have any guesstimate of what Elkhart does each year? Just curious. and btw, add one more to it, as I will make it, for sure next year. I know there might only be a dozen cars on the track but the bars in that town rock. All 3 of em! I'll drive 5 hours for a $1.25 "tapper" of Linenkugals. F the racing. Hell, it might be the last year for it.
js [/B][/QUOTE]
Attendance for Rd Am has been steadily growing. This past year I would gues friday at 15k, Saturday up at 25-30K and Sunday prolly 50 to 55 plus.
For those that are poopooing Cart, what is the last race you attended in person? Just curious.
Is any sanctioning body in racing perfect. they all have their faults and weekness' Cart is still a competitive venue that IMO has a future. Go see any (cart, f1, nascar etc) race in person and then tell me how you feel.
[B]Bonzo,
Do you have any guesstimate of what Elkhart does each year? Just curious. and btw, add one more to it, as I will make it, for sure next year. I know there might only be a dozen cars on the track but the bars in that town rock. All 3 of em! I'll drive 5 hours for a $1.25 "tapper" of Linenkugals. F the racing. Hell, it might be the last year for it.
js [/B][/QUOTE]
Attendance for Rd Am has been steadily growing. This past year I would gues friday at 15k, Saturday up at 25-30K and Sunday prolly 50 to 55 plus.
For those that are poopooing Cart, what is the last race you attended in person? Just curious.
Is any sanctioning body in racing perfect. they all have their faults and weekness' Cart is still a competitive venue that IMO has a future. Go see any (cart, f1, nascar etc) race in person and then tell me how you feel.
| SCCARacr | 11-01-2002 01:23 PM |
Bonzo:
Work in the industry and attend 2-3 races a year . . .
Road America is great, but half of the people attend beacuse it is Road America . . .
My guesstimate is that if there were a NASCAR race there, you'd get 200-300,000 on race day . . .
CART is not viable as a product here in the US, and without the major factories, it's just ALMS . . .:lol:
Work in the industry and attend 2-3 races a year . . .
Road America is great, but half of the people attend beacuse it is Road America . . .
My guesstimate is that if there were a NASCAR race there, you'd get 200-300,000 on race day . . .
CART is not viable as a product here in the US, and without the major factories, it's just ALMS . . .:lol:
| generator | 11-01-2002 02:49 PM |
Streetman,
We go to Elkhart every year, We'll have to meet up next year. Hopefully you'll have a subaru by then!
Bonzo,
Last CART race I went to was at Road America this past August, before that it was the Milwaukee Mile. These events I go to each year, and I have to say that fan base in the recent years has seemingly been dropping a the track. Maybe its just me but I recall it was harder in years past to walk around the paddock because I think there were more people there. Again, maybe its just me....
:confused:
We go to Elkhart every year, We'll have to meet up next year. Hopefully you'll have a subaru by then!
Bonzo,
Last CART race I went to was at Road America this past August, before that it was the Milwaukee Mile. These events I go to each year, and I have to say that fan base in the recent years has seemingly been dropping a the track. Maybe its just me but I recall it was harder in years past to walk around the paddock because I think there were more people there. Again, maybe its just me....
:confused:
| Streetman | 11-01-2002 04:03 PM |
[QUOTE]Sponsors are fleeing (FedEx probably WON'T be back next year)[/QUOTE]
Got anything to back this up? They're currently being advertised as the 2003 sponsor.
Got anything to back this up? They're currently being advertised as the 2003 sponsor.
| SCCARacr | 11-01-2002 04:30 PM |
[url]http://www.speedtv.com/auto/?lvl=3a&cat=20&id=3937[/url]
| Streetman | 11-01-2002 04:56 PM |
From Pooky-
"I'm not going to deny to anybody that I've talked with Bernie Ecclestone," Pook told the Associated Press. "He's a friend. He's also the most intelligent man in motor racing in the world. And there is no doubt that I am rebuilding this series. So, it's logical that I would go to someone like that and say, 'Hey, am I going in the right direction?' That's what's going on."
He's rebuilding? Like the Colts have been rebuilding since they snuck out of Baltimore.
Is he going in the right direction? Hey, Pooky, what happens when you turn right at the Indianapolis 500? That's the direction you are going.
That's a serious bummer about FedEX. I missed it, until now. Maybe it will be the UPS CART blah blah. DHL is big worldwide, and he wants to make CART and F1 feeder...hmmm...who knows. At this point, it might be Bobby Joe's Delivery Service.
I say he needs to get something done, and quick. Can they survive without a main sponsor? They've barely survived with one.
"I'm not going to deny to anybody that I've talked with Bernie Ecclestone," Pook told the Associated Press. "He's a friend. He's also the most intelligent man in motor racing in the world. And there is no doubt that I am rebuilding this series. So, it's logical that I would go to someone like that and say, 'Hey, am I going in the right direction?' That's what's going on."
He's rebuilding? Like the Colts have been rebuilding since they snuck out of Baltimore.
Is he going in the right direction? Hey, Pooky, what happens when you turn right at the Indianapolis 500? That's the direction you are going.
That's a serious bummer about FedEX. I missed it, until now. Maybe it will be the UPS CART blah blah. DHL is big worldwide, and he wants to make CART and F1 feeder...hmmm...who knows. At this point, it might be Bobby Joe's Delivery Service.
I say he needs to get something done, and quick. Can they survive without a main sponsor? They've barely survived with one.
| generator | 11-01-2002 07:25 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Streetman [/i]
[B]
I say he needs to get something done, and quick. Can they survive without a main sponsor? They've barely survived with one. [/B][/QUOTE]
Does anyone know what Pook's plan is to save the series???
[B]
I say he needs to get something done, and quick. Can they survive without a main sponsor? They've barely survived with one. [/B][/QUOTE]
Does anyone know what Pook's plan is to save the series???
| Fred Zaplitny | 11-01-2002 11:41 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by orionf [/i]
[B]
Actually Chris Knieffel is the chief steward these days and it's supposed to be his call. Looks like some heavy hitters influenced him if you ask me.
I'm still wondering how they consider it a RACE when there were only 5-6 green flag laps. :confused: It was an insult to everyone involved, especially the paying fans. [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually Dallenbach is back as the cheif steward this year. Kniefel was demoted.
[url]http://www.cart.com/About/OfficeAdministration.asp[/url]
As for CART, they made their bed and now they are sleeping in it. Pook is using a 5 gallon bucket to bail out the Titanic it seems. I love CART even though I have been extremely dissapointed in the competition the past few years, as well as the management decisions. Last year was pretty much the straw that broke the camel's back and as much as they want to blame that idiot who was at the helm last year and try to fix it now, the damage has been done.
[B]
Actually Chris Knieffel is the chief steward these days and it's supposed to be his call. Looks like some heavy hitters influenced him if you ask me.
I'm still wondering how they consider it a RACE when there were only 5-6 green flag laps. :confused: It was an insult to everyone involved, especially the paying fans. [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually Dallenbach is back as the cheif steward this year. Kniefel was demoted.
[url]http://www.cart.com/About/OfficeAdministration.asp[/url]
As for CART, they made their bed and now they are sleeping in it. Pook is using a 5 gallon bucket to bail out the Titanic it seems. I love CART even though I have been extremely dissapointed in the competition the past few years, as well as the management decisions. Last year was pretty much the straw that broke the camel's back and as much as they want to blame that idiot who was at the helm last year and try to fix it now, the damage has been done.
| Streetman | 11-02-2002 05:42 AM |
[QUOTE]As for CART, they made their bed and now they are sleeping in it[/QUOTE]
Good thought, but it's more like they pissed their bed, and now they're rolling around in it.
Like most, I wish that wasn't the case, but it seems to be the way it is.
Good thought, but it's more like they pissed their bed, and now they're rolling around in it.
Like most, I wish that wasn't the case, but it seems to be the way it is.
| Streetman | 11-02-2002 05:46 AM |
[QUOTE]Does anyone know what Pook's plan is to save the series???[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's to call up Bernie. It's like the blind leading the blind.
The only difference is that F1 can withstand a few years of one team dominance, and CART can't.
BTW, he realy likes to be called Pooky.
Yeah, it's to call up Bernie. It's like the blind leading the blind.
The only difference is that F1 can withstand a few years of one team dominance, and CART can't.
BTW, he realy likes to be called Pooky.
| Fred Zaplitny | 11-02-2002 06:58 PM |
It was announced today that Bridgestone will be the series sponsor for next year. This is god news as they are a global company. CART will at least survive another year.
| Orbiter | 11-02-2002 07:10 PM |
Good news about Bridgestone being new title sponsor.
I heard that once CART is looking at a new engine platform in 2004 or 2005. Perhaps then, the other engine manufactuers will come back??
Adrian Fernandez has secured his spot in 2004.
Now that Jaguar has officially relieved Eddie Irvine.. who knows maybe he may be making a stop in CART? I dont think there are any more spots in F1 he would go to. I read an article at f1-live.com discussing that. He does live in Miama too I believe so it would make sense for him.
I believe Alex could be competitive in CART. Put Michael behind a Minardi and he woudlnt be doing much either. [url]www.alexyoong.com[/url] also says he is close to signing a deal with a major CART team. keeping fingers crossed. The series aint dead yet!
I heard that once CART is looking at a new engine platform in 2004 or 2005. Perhaps then, the other engine manufactuers will come back??
Adrian Fernandez has secured his spot in 2004.
Now that Jaguar has officially relieved Eddie Irvine.. who knows maybe he may be making a stop in CART? I dont think there are any more spots in F1 he would go to. I read an article at f1-live.com discussing that. He does live in Miama too I believe so it would make sense for him.
I believe Alex could be competitive in CART. Put Michael behind a Minardi and he woudlnt be doing much either. [url]www.alexyoong.com[/url] also says he is close to signing a deal with a major CART team. keeping fingers crossed. The series aint dead yet!
| SCCARacr | 11-02-2002 07:57 PM |
Presenting sponsor, not title . . .
BIG $ difference . . .:eek:
BIG $ difference . . .:eek:
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét