| daveyboy | 02-15-2004 05:56 PM |
245 kumho mx or 225 azenis for stx?
�
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I am thinking about selling my autocross '88 crx and prepping my daily driven wrx for stx. I am planning on getting a set of 17x8" Rota Torques for wheels and likely either a set of 225/45/17 azenis or 245/40/17 kumho mx tires. Which would you run and why? I was co driving an sts civic at the Phoenix national tour event and I was pretty impressed at how fast Ken Motonishi was on kumho mx tires. What ever tires I choose may be used as daily drivers; I am not sure. I currently run 16x7 slipsteams with 225/50/16 yoko es100s as street tires. My suspension is currently stock. I will definately upgrade the suspension, I am just not sure how much I want to compromise my ride quality. Any suggestions on a semi-competitive setup that is still liveable for daily driving?
| Orion | 02-15-2004 06:00 PM |
the MX's will most likely go on my Torques shortly. I've had it with Azenis getting greasy in the heat. i'll probably have a few codrivers at the bigger events so it will benefit to be on a tire that can take the heat.
| daveyboy | 02-15-2004 06:12 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Orion [/i]
[B] I've had it with Azenis getting greasy in the heat. [/B]
[/QUOTE]
Do you spray water on your azenis between runs? That helped on my dad's sts civic.
[B] I've had it with Azenis getting greasy in the heat. [/B]
[/QUOTE]
Do you spray water on your azenis between runs? That helped on my dad's sts civic.
| Orion | 02-15-2004 07:20 PM |
all the time. if i could spray them while on course, i would. i've had runs where they were nice and cool at the line. but were gone 1/2 way.
after 2 years of unpredictability i'm moving on. it's a great tire, don't get me wrong, but i'm just willing to try something different.
after 2 years of unpredictability i'm moving on. it's a great tire, don't get me wrong, but i'm just willing to try something different.
| zoomfactor | 02-16-2004 11:04 AM |
[QUOTE]something different[/QUOTE]
What about the BFG KDs? Other than being expensinve, how are they?
What about the BFG KDs? Other than being expensinve, how are they?
| SpeedAbsolute | 02-16-2004 02:37 PM |
daveyboy,
You probably want to do something about your front camber - the MX's are a good tire (I ran 245/40 on 7.5" subzeros last season) but the sidewall isn't as stiff as the Azenis. I had some issues with cooking the outside edges of the fronts, even at high pressures (upper 40's), but our home surface is very sticky/abrasive concrete and I was only running -1.5 degrees of camber.
This year I have camber plates and am looking forward to a better contact patch. Also, I ran an autocross on asphalt and was able to run much lower pressures without worrying about rollover. The MX's are definitely much less likely to get greasy on you from heat (regularly ran on 60+ second autocrosses in 100+ heat), but at full-tread depth they feel somewhat squirrely - worlds better once they break in. I sprayed them down after every run to help keep the heat down.
Matt
You probably want to do something about your front camber - the MX's are a good tire (I ran 245/40 on 7.5" subzeros last season) but the sidewall isn't as stiff as the Azenis. I had some issues with cooking the outside edges of the fronts, even at high pressures (upper 40's), but our home surface is very sticky/abrasive concrete and I was only running -1.5 degrees of camber.
This year I have camber plates and am looking forward to a better contact patch. Also, I ran an autocross on asphalt and was able to run much lower pressures without worrying about rollover. The MX's are definitely much less likely to get greasy on you from heat (regularly ran on 60+ second autocrosses in 100+ heat), but at full-tread depth they feel somewhat squirrely - worlds better once they break in. I sprayed them down after every run to help keep the heat down.
Matt
| thechickencow | 02-16-2004 03:04 PM |
Was I hearing things, or was Falken going to come out with more sizes or a new tire this spring? Anybody know anything on that?
I'd love 245/40 azenis.
Jay
I'd love 245/40 azenis.
Jay
| trhoppe | 02-16-2004 03:56 PM |
IMHO, the Kumho MX has *too* soft of a sidewall to be an effective tire on a 3000lb+ car.
-Tom
-Tom
| Dussander | 02-16-2004 04:00 PM |
Last year I ran Azenis (225), MXs (245) and KDs (245). When I buy new tires for STX, I will buy Azenis. IMO, Azenis are best in rain or cold weather, and probably just as good as the KDs if you can keep them cool enough, even considering the width difference.
Don't run any of those tires in the rain when the tread is low on the street.
Don't run any of those tires in the rain when the tread is low on the street.
| Orion | 02-16-2004 05:07 PM |
anyone call Hankook about the Ventus Z212 yet?
I'll be calling tomorrow. They have a pic in their latest SportsCar ad.
I'll be calling tomorrow. They have a pic in their latest SportsCar ad.
| Fastech | 02-16-2004 09:21 PM |
Keep us posted on the Hankooks!!!
| mywrx2002 | 02-16-2004 09:53 PM |
I e-mailed them last thursday when I got my latest sports car, I'm yet to hear from them on the Z212 but i'm very intrested .
Also has anyone noticed the Z212 isn't on their website either ?
Also has anyone noticed the Z212 isn't on their website either ?
| AWDrifter21 | 08-05-2004 10:38 AM |
[QUOTE=mywrx2002]I e-mailed them last thursday when I got my latest sports car, I'm yet to hear from them on the Z212 but i'm very intrested .
Also has anyone noticed the Z212 isn't on their website either ?[/QUOTE]
I work for Hankook Tire Corp. and its not on our website because it is not out yet with exact and confirmed specifications.
Here are the sizes they will be available in
195/60R14V
205/55ZR16W
195/50ZR15W
205/50ZR15W
205/50ZR16W
225/50ZR16W
205/45ZR16W
215/45ZR16W
225/45ZR16W
245/45ZR16W
215/45ZR17Y
225/45ZR17Y
245/45ZR17Y
215/40ZR17Y
235/40ZR17Y
225/40ZR18Y
215/35ZR18Y
Also has anyone noticed the Z212 isn't on their website either ?[/QUOTE]
I work for Hankook Tire Corp. and its not on our website because it is not out yet with exact and confirmed specifications.
Here are the sizes they will be available in
195/60R14V
205/55ZR16W
195/50ZR15W
205/50ZR15W
205/50ZR16W
225/50ZR16W
205/45ZR16W
215/45ZR16W
225/45ZR16W
245/45ZR16W
215/45ZR17Y
225/45ZR17Y
245/45ZR17Y
215/40ZR17Y
235/40ZR17Y
225/40ZR18Y
215/35ZR18Y
| ChrisW | 08-05-2004 11:08 AM |
Other tire options (and unfortunetly expensive) are the stock tires on a STI or EVO.
The STI's bridgestone RE-070 is an awesome tire. It has all the grip levels of the azenis's before they get greasey (the azenis's) Tire wear is good. Most of the STI drivers have been able to get a full season out the set they got from the factory.
I know the bridgestone's come in a 225/45/17, I don't know if they are going to make a new size for the '05 STI (235/40/17) I would love it if they did, I would put a set on my EVO.
The other tire to consider is the yokohama Advan that Mitsubishi puts on the EVO. It comes in a 235/40/17. I am on a fresh set after toasting my poor azenis tires to the point where they would not hold air... The grip on the stock advans is actually slightly better than the Azenis. you also get alot more feedback through the steering wheel, probably due to the change in sidewall height (the azenis's were a 245/45/17)
Anyhow, both of these tires are north of $200 off of tire rack, but I am sure you could buy a used set off the message boards for much cheaper. I got a new set of advans off the message boards for dirt cheap...
The STI's bridgestone RE-070 is an awesome tire. It has all the grip levels of the azenis's before they get greasey (the azenis's) Tire wear is good. Most of the STI drivers have been able to get a full season out the set they got from the factory.
I know the bridgestone's come in a 225/45/17, I don't know if they are going to make a new size for the '05 STI (235/40/17) I would love it if they did, I would put a set on my EVO.
The other tire to consider is the yokohama Advan that Mitsubishi puts on the EVO. It comes in a 235/40/17. I am on a fresh set after toasting my poor azenis tires to the point where they would not hold air... The grip on the stock advans is actually slightly better than the Azenis. you also get alot more feedback through the steering wheel, probably due to the change in sidewall height (the azenis's were a 245/45/17)
Anyhow, both of these tires are north of $200 off of tire rack, but I am sure you could buy a used set off the message boards for much cheaper. I got a new set of advans off the message boards for dirt cheap...
| Corey | 08-05-2004 11:17 AM |
[QUOTE=AWDrifter21]
Any questions about the tires you can email Kevin McDonald at [email][email�protected][/email]
or me at
[email][email�protected][/email]
Giancarlo
"Awdrifter"[/QUOTE]
Yea, can I have the first set of 225/45/16 to hit the US shores?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Corey #89 STS
[SIZE=1]No Really, can I?[/SIZE]
Any questions about the tires you can email Kevin McDonald at [email][email�protected][/email]
or me at
[email][email�protected][/email]
Giancarlo
"Awdrifter"[/QUOTE]
Yea, can I have the first set of 225/45/16 to hit the US shores?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Corey #89 STS
[SIZE=1]No Really, can I?[/SIZE]
| dwx | 08-05-2004 12:36 PM |
Well they make the RE070's in 235/40/17 somewhere because they use those on the Japanese STI now.
I think 235/40/17 or 245/45/16 on 8" rims would be the perfect tire for STX in a WRX.
I think 235/40/17 or 245/45/16 on 8" rims would be the perfect tire for STX in a WRX.
| trhoppe | 08-05-2004 01:12 PM |
[quote]They will be availble sometime from August and up... no exact date yet.
Im getting a set of Z212 in 225/45/17 to test out.
On the container in the Pacific as we speak. ETA around 08/30/04[/quote]
:lol: Funny, same thing they said last year :lol:
-Tom
now where is that set for testing that I was promised ;)
Im getting a set of Z212 in 225/45/17 to test out.
On the container in the Pacific as we speak. ETA around 08/30/04[/quote]
:lol: Funny, same thing they said last year :lol:
-Tom
now where is that set for testing that I was promised ;)
| kwh29 | 08-05-2004 01:44 PM |
I think the Kumho 245 is good for drivers who are used to more stockish cars. I was most impressed with them at the Rockingham event a few months back -- my final run (coned, unfortuantely) would have won STX by nearly 2 seconds and was 3rd pax without the cone. This was on Nick's heat cycled 10k mile old MX's.
Azenis feel better transitionally but I truly feel that the Kumho 245 lacks nothing in raw grip to the Azenis 225.
--Kevin H.
Azenis feel better transitionally but I truly feel that the Kumho 245 lacks nothing in raw grip to the Azenis 225.
--Kevin H.
| trhoppe | 08-05-2004 01:52 PM |
[QUOTE=kwh29]I think the Kumho 245 is good for drivers who are used to more stockish cars. I was most impressed with them at the Rockingham event a few months back -- my final run (coned, unfortuantely) would have won STX by nearly 2 seconds and was 3rd pax. This was on Nick's heat cycled 10k mile old MX's.
Azenis feel better transitionally but I truly feel that the Kumho 245 lacks nothing in raw grip to the Azenis 225.
--Kevin H.
--Kevin H.[/QUOTE]
I agree with that.
Its just that the WRX lacks transition feel anyways and the MXs compound that. The azenis stiff sidewalls let you make up the time and more in the transitions.
-Tom
Azenis feel better transitionally but I truly feel that the Kumho 245 lacks nothing in raw grip to the Azenis 225.
--Kevin H.
--Kevin H.[/QUOTE]
I agree with that.
Its just that the WRX lacks transition feel anyways and the MXs compound that. The azenis stiff sidewalls let you make up the time and more in the transitions.
-Tom
| stxwrxracer | 08-05-2004 03:59 PM |
Its very true, the Kumhos are slushy in transitions. And when you're wielding almost 300lbs through an autocross course, you want as tight a sidewall as you can have. And that's exactly what the 225 Azenis have. I wouldn't go with the 245 Azenis either, due to the worse gearing and heavier weight. Can't wait to see what the Hankook's have in them though.
-Mike
-Mike
| bbimpreza | 08-05-2004 04:06 PM |
[QUOTE=Corey]Yea, can I have the first set of 225/45/16 to hit the US shores?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Corey #89 STS
[SIZE=1]No Really, can I?[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
Well if your calling dibs on tires, I believe I was offered two to three sets of tires for testing at the San Diego Tour about 2 years ago, but I have still yet to see that one come true. I am very interested in seeing how they handle. A thumbs up to Hankook for coming out with a bunch of sizes. I would love to try that 225/45/16 also.
Billy Brooks
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Corey #89 STS
[SIZE=1]No Really, can I?[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
Well if your calling dibs on tires, I believe I was offered two to three sets of tires for testing at the San Diego Tour about 2 years ago, but I have still yet to see that one come true. I am very interested in seeing how they handle. A thumbs up to Hankook for coming out with a bunch of sizes. I would love to try that 225/45/16 also.
Billy Brooks
| quikSTi | 08-05-2004 04:57 PM |
[QUOTE=kwh29]I think the Kumho 245 is good for drivers who are used to more stockish cars. I was most impressed with them at the Rockingham event a few months back -- my final run (coned, unfortuantely) would have won STX by nearly 2 seconds and was 3rd pax without the cone. This was on Nick's heat cycled 10k mile old MX's.
--Kevin H.[/QUOTE]
Wow, I wish I had seen that run - you're saying you posted a 45 second run in Nick's car, bettering his best lap by 6 seconds?
--Kevin H.[/QUOTE]
Wow, I wish I had seen that run - you're saying you posted a 45 second run in Nick's car, bettering his best lap by 6 seconds?
| kwh29 | 08-05-2004 11:18 PM |
I just looked back at the official results it was a 46.5 would have only won by 1 but this is major woulda-coulda-shoulda territory as it was with a cone after all. We were in SM in a 99% STX legal car. None of the illegal mods did _anything_ to help the time -- drbiggly is the new owner of Nick's (not the board owner) old red 2002 WRX. The car is now 99.9+% STX legal. It was a really good run though -- all the stupid mistakes I'd been making all day I didn't make that time. :-)
--Kevin H.
--Kevin H.
| AWDrifter21 | 08-06-2004 12:32 AM |
----
| AWDrifter21 | 08-06-2004 12:35 AM |
Who do you guys talk to about getting test tires
| trhoppe | 08-06-2004 12:49 AM |
Doug Reed at Hancook is who told me that.
-Tom
-Tom
| ChrisW | 08-06-2004 10:59 AM |
[QUOTE=dwx]Well they make the RE070's in 235/40/17 somewhere because they use those on the Japanese STI now.
QUOTE]
I wonder if the '05 STI will get them....
QUOTE]
I wonder if the '05 STI will get them....
| fliz | 08-06-2004 11:44 AM |
[QUOTE=ChrisW]I wonder if the '05 STI will get them....[/QUOTE]
The '05 didn't, but who knows about the '06.
The '05 didn't, but who knows about the '06.
| DrBiggly | 08-06-2004 12:46 PM |
[QUOTE=kwh29]I just looked back at the official results it was a 46.5 would have only won by 1 but this is major woulda-coulda-shoulda territory as it was with a cone after all. We were in SM in a 99% STX legal car. None of the illegal mods did _anything_ to help the time -- drbiggly is the new owner of Nick's (not the board owner) old red 2002 WRX. The car is now 99.9+% STX legal. It was a really good run though -- all the stupid mistakes I'd been making all day I didn't make that time. :-)
--Kevin H.[/QUOTE]
The car is now STX legal. After that event, removed the fuel rails (did nothing except make it take longer to start), the steering rack bushing, the stiffer tranny mount, and the add-on rear diff subframe bushing. There was more, but I forget now.
--Kevin H.[/QUOTE]
The car is now STX legal. After that event, removed the fuel rails (did nothing except make it take longer to start), the steering rack bushing, the stiffer tranny mount, and the add-on rear diff subframe bushing. There was more, but I forget now.
| quikSTi | 08-06-2004 01:33 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]The car is now STX legal. After that event, removed the fuel rails (did nothing except make it take longer to start), the steering rack bushing, the stiffer tranny mount, and the add-on rear diff subframe bushing. There was more, but I forget now.[/QUOTE]
So are ya' gonna come play in STX for the rest of the season? Another Rockingham event coming up in a couple weeks, maybe a smackdown in the making?
So are ya' gonna come play in STX for the rest of the season? Another Rockingham event coming up in a couple weeks, maybe a smackdown in the making?
| DrBiggly | 08-06-2004 02:03 PM |
I need to get some magnets made right now; at the moment I'll be using good ol' THSCC paper. :p
I'll be at the Rockingham event. I even have had a hand in helping the event already. Smackdown? Eh, I'll get smacked. No seat time in the WRX. I was just starting to get un-slow in the old car; now it's time to reset the learning curve. :)
I'll be at the Rockingham event. I even have had a hand in helping the event already. Smackdown? Eh, I'll get smacked. No seat time in the WRX. I was just starting to get un-slow in the old car; now it's time to reset the learning curve. :)
| quikSTi | 08-06-2004 02:16 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]I need to get some magnets made right now; at the moment I'll be using good ol' THSCC paper.[/QUOTE]
Same here, but you'll have to make your own STX paper, or you can have some of mine - THSCC doesn't have any "STX" (seriously).
I'm in the black BMW 328is, STX 17 - see ya' there.
Same here, but you'll have to make your own STX paper, or you can have some of mine - THSCC doesn't have any "STX" (seriously).
I'm in the black BMW 328is, STX 17 - see ya' there.
| trhoppe | 08-06-2004 02:25 PM |
Ahhh, Mr. Quistorff sucked into the black hole that is NASIOC :lol:
-Tom
-Tom
| quikSTi | 08-06-2004 02:37 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Ahhh, Mr. Quistorff sucked into the black hole that is NASIOC :lol:
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Yes, 'tis I.
Any chance we'll see you at another THSCC event before you move far, far away? If so, can I bribe you for a ride-along? I'd like to see the right way to drive a Suby, up close.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Yes, 'tis I.
Any chance we'll see you at another THSCC event before you move far, far away? If so, can I bribe you for a ride-along? I'd like to see the right way to drive a Suby, up close.
| DrBiggly | 08-06-2004 02:38 PM |
[QUOTE=quikSTi]Same here, but you'll have to make your own STX paper, or you can have some of mine - THSCC doesn't have any "STX" (seriously).
I'm in the black BMW 328is, STX 17 - see ya' there.[/QUOTE]
Cool! :)
I'm in the black BMW 328is, STX 17 - see ya' there.[/QUOTE]
Cool! :)
| trhoppe | 08-06-2004 03:04 PM |
We'll be at rockingham in 2 weeks.
I dunno this whole thing about "driving the right way" though :lol:
-Tom
I dunno this whole thing about "driving the right way" though :lol:
-Tom
| quikSTi | 08-06-2004 03:13 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]I dunno this whole thing about "driving the right way" though :lol:
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Aaaah, modesty is a wonderful thing.
So, can I have a ride?
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Aaaah, modesty is a wonderful thing.
So, can I have a ride?
| nhluhr | 08-06-2004 11:59 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]IMHO, the Kumho MX has *too* soft of a sidewall to be an effective tire on a 3000lb+ car.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Tom, isn't your only experience with the MX a 245/40R17 on a 17x7.5" rim?
Until you've tried it on a 17x8 (the minimum recommended rim size for that tire size), can you really make a fair judgement on them? I'm thinking that those tires on the proper 8" rim size will feel much better.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Tom, isn't your only experience with the MX a 245/40R17 on a 17x7.5" rim?
Until you've tried it on a 17x8 (the minimum recommended rim size for that tire size), can you really make a fair judgement on them? I'm thinking that those tires on the proper 8" rim size will feel much better.
| nhluhr | 08-07-2004 12:12 AM |
[QUOTE=dwx]Well they make the RE070's in 235/40/17 somewhere because they use those on the Japanese STI now.
I think 235/40/17 or 245/45/16 on 8" rims would be the perfect tire for STX in a WRX.[/QUOTE]
Actually, the tires coming on the new JDM STI's are 235/[b]45[/b]R17.
I'm thinking they will be available for us next year. Also, the aformentioned Yokohama tires (stock on the Lancer Evolution) are also 235/45R17... it is the Advan A046 tire at $214 each from Tirerack.
I think 235/40/17 or 245/45/16 on 8" rims would be the perfect tire for STX in a WRX.[/QUOTE]
Actually, the tires coming on the new JDM STI's are 235/[b]45[/b]R17.
I'm thinking they will be available for us next year. Also, the aformentioned Yokohama tires (stock on the Lancer Evolution) are also 235/45R17... it is the Advan A046 tire at $214 each from Tirerack.
| AUTOwrXER | 08-07-2004 12:17 AM |
[QUOTE=nhluhr]Tom, isn't your only experience with the MX a 245/40R17 on a 17x7.5" rim?
Until you've tried it on a 17x8 (the minimum recommended rim size for that tire size), can you really make a fair judgement on them? I'm thinking that those tires on the proper 8" rim size will feel much better.[/QUOTE]
I would have to say that the .5" rim difference would make very little difference. I trust Tom's opinion on the 7.5" wheels. If anyone else would like to try, I have a set of Volk CE28Ns with new, shaved 245/40/17 Kuhmo MX for sale ;)
Joel
Until you've tried it on a 17x8 (the minimum recommended rim size for that tire size), can you really make a fair judgement on them? I'm thinking that those tires on the proper 8" rim size will feel much better.[/QUOTE]
I would have to say that the .5" rim difference would make very little difference. I trust Tom's opinion on the 7.5" wheels. If anyone else would like to try, I have a set of Volk CE28Ns with new, shaved 245/40/17 Kuhmo MX for sale ;)
Joel
| nhluhr | 08-07-2004 01:42 AM |
it's just that I have driven tom's car with the kumhos, driven it with the KDs, and even bought the kumho's from tom after he was done with them at OneLap last year. I wore them out and replaced them with another set... kwh29 mentioned "nick's mx's". I am Nick. DrBiggly's car is my old car... It's not like I just fell off the truck here.
I disagree that the .5" would have little effect on how they feel. You tend to lose grip anytime the rim is not at optimum width for the tire. A too-wide rim is better than a too-narrow rim. A too-narrow rim will also contribute to squirmyness since the sidewalls are forced in. If you've actually seen a 245/40 MX mounted on a 7.5" wheel, you'd see that an extra 0.5" would make the sidewalls almost perfectly spaced and vertical instead of curved in like they are on the 7.5" rim.
There's a reason NO TIRE MANUFACTURER RECOMMENDS THEIR 245/40R17 BE USED ON 17x7.5 RIMS and anytime [email�protected] is asked, he will deny that it should be done. SURE, it CAN physically fit on there... but it'll never handle as well as if they were on a wider rim.
I disagree that the .5" would have little effect on how they feel. You tend to lose grip anytime the rim is not at optimum width for the tire. A too-wide rim is better than a too-narrow rim. A too-narrow rim will also contribute to squirmyness since the sidewalls are forced in. If you've actually seen a 245/40 MX mounted on a 7.5" wheel, you'd see that an extra 0.5" would make the sidewalls almost perfectly spaced and vertical instead of curved in like they are on the 7.5" rim.
There's a reason NO TIRE MANUFACTURER RECOMMENDS THEIR 245/40R17 BE USED ON 17x7.5 RIMS and anytime [email�protected] is asked, he will deny that it should be done. SURE, it CAN physically fit on there... but it'll never handle as well as if they were on a wider rim.
| trhoppe | 08-07-2004 12:54 PM |
[quote]Tom, isn't your only experience with the MX a 245/40R17 on a 17x7.5" rim?
Until you've tried it on a 17x8 (the minimum recommended rim size for that tire size), can you really make a fair judgement on them? I'm thinking that those tires on the proper 8" rim size will feel much better.[/quote]
I have actually tried them on a 8" rim as well. I still don't like their floppy sidewall FOR AUTOCROSS. Now for a street tire and a tire that I would drive on track, the MX > *.* in my book. That is the reason I ran them at One Lap and that is the reason they are on Midnight_Gold's STi. That is also the reason I will use the tire on track, but for autox, I take the tire with the stiffest sidewall. 75% of an autox course is transitions.
[quote]It's not like I just fell off the truck here.[/quote]
n00b! :rolleyes: :lol:
[quote]There's a reason NO TIRE MANUFACTURER RECOMMENDS THEIR 245/40R17 BE USED ON 17x7.5 RIMS and anytime [email�protected] is asked, he will deny that it should be done. SURE, it CAN physically fit on there... but it'll never handle as well as if they were on a wider rim.[/quote] I for one could not tell a sidewall squishiness difference. [b]IMHO[/b] they felt just as squishy on the 7.5" and the 8" wheels. Also, if you search there are some pics of the sidewall in action with a 225/45/17 on a 7.5" wheel compared to same size azenis on same rim that Fred took last season.
Edit: Mikey tried the MXs on 8" wheels at the Toledo Pro. Granted he went faster on them sunday morning, but he attributed that to driving rather then tire choice. Kiko also ran faster on mikey's azenis then on his own MXs. Mike mentioned how they are a "squish-stick" tire. You have to turn earlier and you have to build the "squish" into your driving style, but then they stick like hell. Once you adapt to that the tire will be just as fast. Its all a matter of opinion.
-Tom
Until you've tried it on a 17x8 (the minimum recommended rim size for that tire size), can you really make a fair judgement on them? I'm thinking that those tires on the proper 8" rim size will feel much better.[/quote]
I have actually tried them on a 8" rim as well. I still don't like their floppy sidewall FOR AUTOCROSS. Now for a street tire and a tire that I would drive on track, the MX > *.* in my book. That is the reason I ran them at One Lap and that is the reason they are on Midnight_Gold's STi. That is also the reason I will use the tire on track, but for autox, I take the tire with the stiffest sidewall. 75% of an autox course is transitions.
[quote]It's not like I just fell off the truck here.[/quote]
n00b! :rolleyes: :lol:
[quote]There's a reason NO TIRE MANUFACTURER RECOMMENDS THEIR 245/40R17 BE USED ON 17x7.5 RIMS and anytime [email�protected] is asked, he will deny that it should be done. SURE, it CAN physically fit on there... but it'll never handle as well as if they were on a wider rim.[/quote] I for one could not tell a sidewall squishiness difference. [b]IMHO[/b] they felt just as squishy on the 7.5" and the 8" wheels. Also, if you search there are some pics of the sidewall in action with a 225/45/17 on a 7.5" wheel compared to same size azenis on same rim that Fred took last season.
Edit: Mikey tried the MXs on 8" wheels at the Toledo Pro. Granted he went faster on them sunday morning, but he attributed that to driving rather then tire choice. Kiko also ran faster on mikey's azenis then on his own MXs. Mike mentioned how they are a "squish-stick" tire. You have to turn earlier and you have to build the "squish" into your driving style, but then they stick like hell. Once you adapt to that the tire will be just as fast. Its all a matter of opinion.
-Tom
| ColinL | 08-07-2004 01:57 PM |
squish-stick sounds like a way of saying that the tire operates in a high slip angle.
| nhluhr | 08-07-2004 07:14 PM |
cool tom, thanks for clarifying that. When you say "Mikey drove on them" are you talking about biggles?
| AUTOwrXER | 08-07-2004 08:10 PM |
[QUOTE=nhluhr]It's not like I just fell off the truck here.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't trying to imply that you didn't know what you were talking about. IMO, the .5" difference is negligible. I have seen and driven them both ways. They look better on the 8" wheels, but I think you would have trouble telling them apart while driving in a blind test.
Joel
I wasn't trying to imply that you didn't know what you were talking about. IMO, the .5" difference is negligible. I have seen and driven them both ways. They look better on the 8" wheels, but I think you would have trouble telling them apart while driving in a blind test.
Joel
| kwh29 | 08-07-2004 10:50 PM |
[QUOTE=nhluhr]It's not like I just fell off the truck here.[/QUOTE]
Man this is just dying for a photoshop. :lol: :lol:
--Kevin H.
Man this is just dying for a photoshop. :lol: :lol:
--Kevin H.
| mofugga | 08-07-2004 11:15 PM |
[QUOTE=nhluhr]cool tom, thanks for clarifying that. When you say "Mikey drove on them" are you talking about biggles?[/QUOTE]
i'm gonna guess mike king ;)
i'm gonna guess mike king ;)
| DrBiggly | 08-08-2004 01:24 PM |
He meant Mike King, not me.
I let Steven co-drive my car down at CMP (holy crap is that place fun!) and he was a bit iffy about the 245s; caused him some trouble in the slaloms. (He's used to 205 and 225 Azenis which are notably quicker in response.) I'd agree with the squish-stick method; the tires did quite well on the actual track turns (we used turns 12, 13, and 14 in their entirety for the Solo2 if I remember the turn numbers right) but were a little less than desirable for me in the slaloms; I need to adjust my slaloming technique. I kept getting behind, going too slowly, or flicking the rear end out too hard.
I managed to miss Steven going completely sideways around one of the turns in my car; everybody else saw it and thought it was great. I asked him what he thought of the setup and he responds with "It's really loose." I just said "Oh well I can fix that, turn the front struts up a touch" and he emphatically replies "NO NO! I like it!!" :lol:
P.S. We all got 7 runs with an average time of about 1:10.xxx
Also, George Bowland showed up and screwed everybody in PAX :lol:
I let Steven co-drive my car down at CMP (holy crap is that place fun!) and he was a bit iffy about the 245s; caused him some trouble in the slaloms. (He's used to 205 and 225 Azenis which are notably quicker in response.) I'd agree with the squish-stick method; the tires did quite well on the actual track turns (we used turns 12, 13, and 14 in their entirety for the Solo2 if I remember the turn numbers right) but were a little less than desirable for me in the slaloms; I need to adjust my slaloming technique. I kept getting behind, going too slowly, or flicking the rear end out too hard.
I managed to miss Steven going completely sideways around one of the turns in my car; everybody else saw it and thought it was great. I asked him what he thought of the setup and he responds with "It's really loose." I just said "Oh well I can fix that, turn the front struts up a touch" and he emphatically replies "NO NO! I like it!!" :lol:
P.S. We all got 7 runs with an average time of about 1:10.xxx
Also, George Bowland showed up and screwed everybody in PAX :lol:
| AWDrifter21 | 08-08-2004 03:10 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Doug Reed at Hancook is who told me that.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
:cool:
-Tom[/QUOTE]
:cool:
| solo-x | 08-08-2004 09:23 PM |
i don't think the squishiness comes from the sidewall being softer then on the azenis. my guess is the tread depth. i noticed my car was very sensitive to tread depth when i was on azenis. the difference was big enough that anything over 3/32's tread depth on the rear of the car made it noticeably looser in transitions and on the front noticeably less responsive. the mx's seem to be even more sensitive to tread depth. i'll know for sure once i get these bad boys down to the wear bars. for now they just keep getting faster every event.
i have made some changes to the setup to work with the mx's. the most recent change was a reduction in rear tire pressure to address a rear brake lockup issue. straight line heavy braking was locking both rear tires. never had a problem like that with the azenis. :confused: i've also made some changes to the alignment and spring rates that seem to have helped things as well. to me, the mx is much pickier about suspension setup, alignment and tire pressures. don't know if that's good or bad, or right, but that is what i think.
nate
i have made some changes to the setup to work with the mx's. the most recent change was a reduction in rear tire pressure to address a rear brake lockup issue. straight line heavy braking was locking both rear tires. never had a problem like that with the azenis. :confused: i've also made some changes to the alignment and spring rates that seem to have helped things as well. to me, the mx is much pickier about suspension setup, alignment and tire pressures. don't know if that's good or bad, or right, but that is what i think.
nate
| DrBiggly | 08-08-2004 11:12 PM |
You getting faster at each event is I'm sure due in part to fine-tuning your car and just more seat time with a notably different tire. :)
I have very little tread depth on the Kumho MXs at the moment. I'd have to check and see what it is, but if I'm not at the wear bars I'm awfully close. Not that the Kumhos are bad, it's just that I'm used to Azenis. I'm most likely going to go with another set of those once the Kumhos are dead. :)
I have very little tread depth on the Kumho MXs at the moment. I'd have to check and see what it is, but if I'm not at the wear bars I'm awfully close. Not that the Kumhos are bad, it's just that I'm used to Azenis. I'm most likely going to go with another set of those once the Kumhos are dead. :)
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