| Subtle WRX | 09-22-2004 11:25 PM |
Blending in.
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I hope I don't horrify anyone, but I am going to order an '05 WRX STi and I want to make it appear NOT to be the fire breathing dragon that it is. Specifically, I want to delete the rear spoiler and edit out or modify the hood intake. I intend this car for street use only and it will rarely if ever see speeds in excess of 110 MPH, though I do not want to compromise power output or acceleration. In fact, I would like to apply modifications to increase power.
My questions are: Can it be ordered without the rear spoiler? At what speed does the spoiler come into play and could I achieve adequate down force from a much smaller, single plan spoiler mounted a few inches off the lid? Can I just eliminate it outright without aerodynamic risks given a pure street application? Can the hood intake be reduced without risking air starvation? Can it be eliminated outright?
I would also like to go to aftermarket wheels that are visually toned down from the factory options, but are lighter than the factory rims. Any suggestions?
Thanks.
My questions are: Can it be ordered without the rear spoiler? At what speed does the spoiler come into play and could I achieve adequate down force from a much smaller, single plan spoiler mounted a few inches off the lid? Can I just eliminate it outright without aerodynamic risks given a pure street application? Can the hood intake be reduced without risking air starvation? Can it be eliminated outright?
I would also like to go to aftermarket wheels that are visually toned down from the factory options, but are lighter than the factory rims. Any suggestions?
Thanks.
| Needles | 09-22-2004 11:31 PM |
You can not order a wingless STI.Just trade with a wingless WRX.You will find many takers.
If you don't like the hood scoop you can get a FMIC then change to an RS hood.
I don't think the STI rims are really stand out rims.I think there pretty lite too.Stick with the rims.
If you don't like the hood scoop you can get a FMIC then change to an RS hood.
I don't think the STI rims are really stand out rims.I think there pretty lite too.Stick with the rims.
| surfer5567 | 09-22-2004 11:31 PM |
no.
i think something like 70mph. yes, but not the same amount.
dont know.
yes, get a front mount intercooler, but on stock turbo, i think its pointless, even on an sti.
i think rota's are lighter than stock sti, but not sure.
i think something like 70mph. yes, but not the same amount.
dont know.
yes, get a front mount intercooler, but on stock turbo, i think its pointless, even on an sti.
i think rota's are lighter than stock sti, but not sure.
| migs76 | 09-22-2004 11:34 PM |
spoiler delete is not a dealer option. trade trunks and scoops with a wrx. since you "won't" be going over 110mph, it shouldn't be a problem. and as for wheels...check the tire and rim section. you'll get plenty of ideas there.
| Russell Rogers | 09-22-2004 11:34 PM |
actually yes you can order a wingless STI buy a perrin front mount and an rs hood .
| SonnyCrockett04 | 09-22-2004 11:34 PM |
You say this now......give it a while and if you still don't like the wing and scoop...I'm sure that there are alot of people out there that would be willing to trade you a wigless or WRX trunk for yours and the STI scoop for a WRX one.
P.S. If you get a blue car PM me and I'd be more that happy to trade you hood scoops. ;D
P.S. If you get a blue car PM me and I'd be more that happy to trade you hood scoops. ;D
| DJ_STI | 09-22-2004 11:34 PM |
but i dont think any rotas fit over the brembos, or are there?
| Handsdown | 09-22-2004 11:35 PM |
people have taken the sti wing off and had no aerodynamic trouble. you'll be fine.
the hoodscoop on the other hand, is there specifically to feed the intercooler, and while i would think a regular wrx intake would be okay, it certainly isn't optimal.
eliminating the scoop outright is just plain idiotic.
the rims... well... whatever.
how much do you know about this car you want oh so much? i'd suggest a little more research before you get your 'dream machine.'
the hoodscoop on the other hand, is there specifically to feed the intercooler, and while i would think a regular wrx intake would be okay, it certainly isn't optimal.
eliminating the scoop outright is just plain idiotic.
the rims... well... whatever.
how much do you know about this car you want oh so much? i'd suggest a little more research before you get your 'dream machine.'
| Uncle Scotty | 09-22-2004 11:41 PM |
If you are serious about what you say, you are already contradicting yourself....
Figure it out, then buy....
Figure it out, then buy....
| volleybrad | 09-23-2004 09:00 AM |
you'll be hard-pressed to find wheels that are lighter/stronger than the stock BBS's without spending an arm and a leg. I'd stick with the stockers.
| BryanH | 09-23-2004 09:18 AM |
I would love to have an STI but am not a big fan of the wing.
Trade trunks.
Trade trunks.
| Subtle WRX | 09-23-2004 10:13 AM |
Wingless and scoopless I go.
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Easy there, Uncle Scotty - You are making assumptions and you know, well - nothing. About me or my intentions, anyway. And Hands Down, thanks for the input, but Dream Machine? Not exactly. I'm buying the WRX so I can have a car in which the baby seat will fit, or in which I can fit a few bags of groceries, and still have some performance. I want to tone it down because, while I might have appreciated the aesthetics of the wing and scoop when I was 18, I just find them to be at least ostentatious, if not simply foolish looking on a street car with four doors. The �wing� on my Porsche looks more appropriate, and it is tiny compared to that thing on the Subaru. Otherwise, thanks for the input, and feel free to express your disdain for me as a Porsche owner. Heh. :devil:
| mrbell | 09-23-2004 10:14 AM |
I'm probably gonna get killed for this, but I wouldn't mind going wingless, and more of new Legacy GT hood scoop on my GC8... less "flashy" and cleaner...
| BryanH | 09-23-2004 11:49 AM |
If you also get the car with silver rims instead of Gold it really tones it down a bit. The gold rims absolutely stick out like a sore thumb.
And...like you...this was not a dream machine but a really fun to drive vehicle that made a bit more sense for daily driving.
And...like you...this was not a dream machine but a really fun to drive vehicle that made a bit more sense for daily driving.
| coolblue05 | 09-23-2004 12:16 PM |
If you want to blend in better, just get a legacy GT. Very good performance, subtle looks.
| rocklandwrx | 09-23-2004 12:24 PM |
If your interested in going wingless or having a more subtle look, i have an 04 wing and the 04 hood scoop. PM me if you would like to trade. (perfect condition)..and if you dont like the look of those big ugle brembos, i guess i can trade for them also :D
| Handsdown | 09-23-2004 12:32 PM |
[QUOTE=Subtle WRX]Easy there, Uncle Scotty - You are making assumptions and you know, well - nothing. About me or my intentions, anyway. And Hands Down, thanks for the input, but Dream Machine? Not exactly. I'm buying the WRX so I can have a car in which the baby seat will fit, or in which I can fit a few bags of groceries, and still have some performance. I want to tone it down because, while I might have appreciated the aesthetics of the wing and scoop when I was 18, I just find them to be at least ostentatious, if not simply foolish looking on a street car with four doors. The �wing� on my Porsche looks more appropriate, and it is tiny compared to that thing on the Subaru. Otherwise, thanks for the input, and feel free to express your disdain for me as a Porsche owner. Heh. :devil:[/QUOTE]
for someone with a baby... and of some age to speak of 18 as if it were a while ago...
your original post sounded an awful lot like a high school rich kid.
and you severely misused the word 'disdain'- this might have been your objective in pursuit of a literary device, but it was lost in transmission.
sir-
if you dislike Subaru's taste in the way they adorn their cars, that's fine... but your original post indicates you know next to nothing about turbocharger systems and you shouldn't be suprised when a bunch of subaru enthusiasts are skeptical about your aims.
a lot of people would agree with you that the STI's spoiler is rediculous for a street car, but then again i doubt the rest of your constituency would hold subaru in such disdain for the decision to include it as a standard feature.
you have a porshe, why do you need another performance vehicle? if i were you i'd try to save gas by having a slightly less potent second car.
however- if i were to make the car you detailed, i would have a stealth aps front mount(flat black in color) with an RS hood, debadged emblems, wingless trunk, silver paint and flat black Advan wheels. i may even swap the taillights and rear bumper for a 2002-2003 set and keep the stock exhaust, with a different tip so it did not say STI on it. also, slap some 2.5RS emblems on the trunk and call it a day.
for someone with a baby... and of some age to speak of 18 as if it were a while ago...
your original post sounded an awful lot like a high school rich kid.
and you severely misused the word 'disdain'- this might have been your objective in pursuit of a literary device, but it was lost in transmission.
sir-
if you dislike Subaru's taste in the way they adorn their cars, that's fine... but your original post indicates you know next to nothing about turbocharger systems and you shouldn't be suprised when a bunch of subaru enthusiasts are skeptical about your aims.
a lot of people would agree with you that the STI's spoiler is rediculous for a street car, but then again i doubt the rest of your constituency would hold subaru in such disdain for the decision to include it as a standard feature.
you have a porshe, why do you need another performance vehicle? if i were you i'd try to save gas by having a slightly less potent second car.
however- if i were to make the car you detailed, i would have a stealth aps front mount(flat black in color) with an RS hood, debadged emblems, wingless trunk, silver paint and flat black Advan wheels. i may even swap the taillights and rear bumper for a 2002-2003 set and keep the stock exhaust, with a different tip so it did not say STI on it. also, slap some 2.5RS emblems on the trunk and call it a day.
| Subtle WRX | 09-23-2004 01:26 PM |
Um...yeah.
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Hands Down,
Regarding your post above, I'm not sure where to start (or if I should even bother...) but I'll respond if only to keep things interesting.
Clearly, I must have been absent from vocabulary class on the day "disdain" was introduced. Please explain to me how I misused the word. Please. I'm eager to hear your explanation.
While we are in grammar school, I noticed you have neglected to capitalize throughout your post. I assume this is stylistic and not the mark of a moron, yes?
I am not at all �suprised� that I receive different opinions when I post a question. Nor am I surprised. Though someone might agree that the spoiler is �ridiculous� for a street car, I actually find it ridiculous, which is a similar word, but spelled differently.
No, I do not have a �porshe�, but fortunately for me I have a Porsche, which is a very nice car indeed.
Finally, regarding your comment that my first post read as if I were a �high school rich kid� � I am in fact a big grow-up rich kid. You can probably tell that based on my ability to spell correctly, use appropriate punctuation, and refrain from exposing my intellectual vapidity. Can�t you?
Regarding your post above, I'm not sure where to start (or if I should even bother...) but I'll respond if only to keep things interesting.
Clearly, I must have been absent from vocabulary class on the day "disdain" was introduced. Please explain to me how I misused the word. Please. I'm eager to hear your explanation.
While we are in grammar school, I noticed you have neglected to capitalize throughout your post. I assume this is stylistic and not the mark of a moron, yes?
I am not at all �suprised� that I receive different opinions when I post a question. Nor am I surprised. Though someone might agree that the spoiler is �ridiculous� for a street car, I actually find it ridiculous, which is a similar word, but spelled differently.
No, I do not have a �porshe�, but fortunately for me I have a Porsche, which is a very nice car indeed.
Finally, regarding your comment that my first post read as if I were a �high school rich kid� � I am in fact a big grow-up rich kid. You can probably tell that based on my ability to spell correctly, use appropriate punctuation, and refrain from exposing my intellectual vapidity. Can�t you?
| satrya | 09-23-2004 02:33 PM |
[QUOTE=Subtle WRX]...edit out or modify the hood intake. ..., though I do not want to compromise power output or acceleration. In fact, I would like to apply modifications to increase power.[/QUOTE]
Even without the goal of adding power mods, imho this is not possible.
(1) Fabricating a smaller hood scoop that looks toned down would mean reduction in intake temp cooling efficiency.
(2) Replacing the TMIC with an FMIC (to delete the scoop altogether) isn't exactly toned down thanks to the FMIC imho, not to mention the complication of re-tuning the ecu and possibly putting a different turbo to compensate for the increase in intake plumbing volume.
If all you want is to tone down the appearance, then #1 above would've been reasonable. It may be possible to find hood scoops from other vehicles that can be trimmed to fit & looks more toned down. The new Legacy (BP / BL) for example, or some of the older turbo Legacies.
Regarding wheel replacement, it would be tough to find a lighter set that clears the Brembo brakes, and yet has plain looks. There is at least 1 Rota wheel type that clears the brakes, lightweight, and relatively inexpensive. But imho it doesn't look plain. In any case, you might want to check [url]www.subydude.com[/url] (one of the vendors here that carry Rota wheels).
my 2 cents
Even without the goal of adding power mods, imho this is not possible.
(1) Fabricating a smaller hood scoop that looks toned down would mean reduction in intake temp cooling efficiency.
(2) Replacing the TMIC with an FMIC (to delete the scoop altogether) isn't exactly toned down thanks to the FMIC imho, not to mention the complication of re-tuning the ecu and possibly putting a different turbo to compensate for the increase in intake plumbing volume.
If all you want is to tone down the appearance, then #1 above would've been reasonable. It may be possible to find hood scoops from other vehicles that can be trimmed to fit & looks more toned down. The new Legacy (BP / BL) for example, or some of the older turbo Legacies.
Regarding wheel replacement, it would be tough to find a lighter set that clears the Brembo brakes, and yet has plain looks. There is at least 1 Rota wheel type that clears the brakes, lightweight, and relatively inexpensive. But imho it doesn't look plain. In any case, you might want to check [url]www.subydude.com[/url] (one of the vendors here that carry Rota wheels).
my 2 cents
| Uncle Scotty | 09-23-2004 05:09 PM |
[QUOTE=Handsdown]
...if i were to make the car you detailed, i would have a stealth aps front mount(flat black in color) with an RS hood, debadged emblems, wingless trunk, silver paint and flat black Advan wheels. i may even swap the taillights and rear bumper for a 2002-2003 set and keep the stock exhaust, with a different tip so it did not say STI on it. also, slap some 2.5RS emblems on the trunk and call it a day.[/QUOTE]
If I were to buy an STi, I would very likely do somethng very similar to the above....;)
....or a FXT modded all to hell and back :D :lol: :banana:
...if i were to make the car you detailed, i would have a stealth aps front mount(flat black in color) with an RS hood, debadged emblems, wingless trunk, silver paint and flat black Advan wheels. i may even swap the taillights and rear bumper for a 2002-2003 set and keep the stock exhaust, with a different tip so it did not say STI on it. also, slap some 2.5RS emblems on the trunk and call it a day.[/QUOTE]
If I were to buy an STi, I would very likely do somethng very similar to the above....;)
....or a FXT modded all to hell and back :D :lol: :banana:
| snvin | 09-23-2004 05:12 PM |
[QUOTE=DJ_STI]but i dont think any rotas fit over the brembos, or are there?[/QUOTE]
I'm 99% sure Rota SDR's will clear the STi Brembos.
I'm 99% sure Rota SDR's will clear the STi Brembos.
| brunetmj | 09-23-2004 06:03 PM |
[QUOTE]but i dont think any rotas fit over the brembos, or are there?[/QUOTE]
Just confirming the ROTA SDR's fit over the brembos.
In regard to your intentions you might want to consider an EVO. I never thought I would hear myself saying that but it would be easier to fit into the total sleeper mode and still give good power.
Just confirming the ROTA SDR's fit over the brembos.
In regard to your intentions you might want to consider an EVO. I never thought I would hear myself saying that but it would be easier to fit into the total sleeper mode and still give good power.
| Subtle WRX | 09-23-2004 07:24 PM |
STi not the answer?
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I'm not attracted to the evo. If the hood scoop can be diminished, maybe a solution would be a Golf R32.
| Capt Crunch | 09-23-2004 07:35 PM |
Jeez. It's a bit hot in here.
Subtle WRX - here is what I would suggest.
Paint you calipers. Gold stands out, I'd paint them black or silver.
Get silver wheels. Don't buy rotas. You seem weathly enough to get good wheels, and while rotas are good for the price, there are many better wheels to choose from. I recommend Volk, Prodrive, etc.
Get an APS Black front mount intercooler. It will serve no performance purpose without a larger turbocharger, but it will allow you to...
remove your hood and replace it with a silver RS one without a scoop.
remove sti badges.
Easy enough, however you car will look like an econobox. The WRX isn't particularly good looking, and the only beauty it gets is from it's flashiness. Remove it, and you have a pretty ugly car. Fast as piss, but ugly.
Subtle WRX - here is what I would suggest.
Paint you calipers. Gold stands out, I'd paint them black or silver.
Get silver wheels. Don't buy rotas. You seem weathly enough to get good wheels, and while rotas are good for the price, there are many better wheels to choose from. I recommend Volk, Prodrive, etc.
Get an APS Black front mount intercooler. It will serve no performance purpose without a larger turbocharger, but it will allow you to...
remove your hood and replace it with a silver RS one without a scoop.
remove sti badges.
Easy enough, however you car will look like an econobox. The WRX isn't particularly good looking, and the only beauty it gets is from it's flashiness. Remove it, and you have a pretty ugly car. Fast as piss, but ugly.
| Subtle WRX | 09-23-2004 07:50 PM |
Thanks
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Capt Crunch - Thanks for your input. A boring, tame looking grocery getter that goes like hell - exactly what I want! :banana:
| Perdue | 09-23-2004 08:15 PM |
[QUOTE=Subtle WRX]Finally, regarding your comment that my first post read as if I were a �high school rich kid� � I am in fact a big grow-up rich kid. You can probably tell that based on my ability to spell correctly, use appropriate punctuation, and refrain from exposing my intellectual vapidity. Can�t you?[/QUOTE]
I think that just reinforces what Handsdown was saying. You're acting like a rich snob, IMO.
BUT, we're all here for our love of our cars, so to the car. You said, "Street car with four doors," as if a sedan was a bad thing? What wrong with it? A sporty car that serves a purpose. Real men do it with a four door anyways. As far as blending the car in, I'd go with the RS hood, FMIC, Silver or Black rims (I think you'd look less 'tuner' with silver rims), and a wingless trunk. I personally don't think the new Imprezas look bad with no scoop, but I'm rather fond of the STI Spoiler. That's just my opinion though.
I think that just reinforces what Handsdown was saying. You're acting like a rich snob, IMO.
BUT, we're all here for our love of our cars, so to the car. You said, "Street car with four doors," as if a sedan was a bad thing? What wrong with it? A sporty car that serves a purpose. Real men do it with a four door anyways. As far as blending the car in, I'd go with the RS hood, FMIC, Silver or Black rims (I think you'd look less 'tuner' with silver rims), and a wingless trunk. I personally don't think the new Imprezas look bad with no scoop, but I'm rather fond of the STI Spoiler. That's just my opinion though.
| Capt Crunch | 09-23-2004 08:25 PM |
Am I the only one that doesn't think Subtle WRX said anything snotty? Man people, you jump down anyones back who happens to be well off. Just because the person didn't have to take out a second morgage on the house to get the sti doesn't mean they are somehow underserving.
| Perdue | 09-23-2004 08:42 PM |
I don't care how much money he has...it's just that he's using his money as an excuse for the reason that his grammer is so much better than ours. Seemed snotty enough for me.
| Capt Crunch | 09-23-2004 09:31 PM |
He's my take on the give and take.
Subtle WRX - Hi. I want to make my sti a sleeper. How do I do it?
Nasioc - do you know anything about your car? Maybe you need to know more before you are privledged enough to buy the "dream machine".
Subtle WRX - The sti is not my "dream machine." I can do what I want to it. I think the sti looks dumb with the spoiler. My porsche's wing looks better.
Nasioc - I hate you because of you grammar you snooty bastard. Nobody needs two fast cars.
Subtle WRX - Your grammar sucks too. I guess you assumed I was a rich prick because I type complete sentences.
Nasioc - You are rich, and a prick. Real men drive cars with 4 doors.
Am I missing something?
Subtle WRX - Hi. I want to make my sti a sleeper. How do I do it?
Nasioc - do you know anything about your car? Maybe you need to know more before you are privledged enough to buy the "dream machine".
Subtle WRX - The sti is not my "dream machine." I can do what I want to it. I think the sti looks dumb with the spoiler. My porsche's wing looks better.
Nasioc - I hate you because of you grammar you snooty bastard. Nobody needs two fast cars.
Subtle WRX - Your grammar sucks too. I guess you assumed I was a rich prick because I type complete sentences.
Nasioc - You are rich, and a prick. Real men drive cars with 4 doors.
Am I missing something?
| Dingo3243 | 09-23-2004 09:36 PM |
[QUOTE=Capt Crunch]He's my take on the give and take.
Subtle WRX - Hi. I want to make my sti a sleeper. How do I do it?
Nasioc - do you know anything about your car? Maybe you need to know more before you are privledged enough to buy the "dream machine".
Subtle WRX - The sti is not my "dream machine." I can do what I want to it. I think the sti looks dumb with the spoiler. My porsche's wing looks better.
Nasioc - I hate you because of you grammar you snooty bastard. Nobody needs two fast cars.
Subtle WRX - Your grammar sucks too. I guess you assumed I was a rich prick because I type complete sentences.
Nasioc - You are rich, and a prick. Real men drive cars with 4 doors.
Am I missing something?[/QUOTE]
:lol: That about sums it up.
Subtle WRX - Hi. I want to make my sti a sleeper. How do I do it?
Nasioc - do you know anything about your car? Maybe you need to know more before you are privledged enough to buy the "dream machine".
Subtle WRX - The sti is not my "dream machine." I can do what I want to it. I think the sti looks dumb with the spoiler. My porsche's wing looks better.
Nasioc - I hate you because of you grammar you snooty bastard. Nobody needs two fast cars.
Subtle WRX - Your grammar sucks too. I guess you assumed I was a rich prick because I type complete sentences.
Nasioc - You are rich, and a prick. Real men drive cars with 4 doors.
Am I missing something?[/QUOTE]
:lol: That about sums it up.
| Subtle WRX | 09-23-2004 09:40 PM |
Money, etc...
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Sorry I'm not in a lower income bracket. I was, but I have been working for 24 years and guess what - I can buy a few cars. Big deal. I certainly am not trying to come off as an ass or anything. It was Hands Down who opened the feud here - not me. I was just asking if I could buy a WRX STi and make the thing stealth. I'm not interested in being the grammar police. Again, it was Hands Down that claimed I misused a word - when in fact I did not. And he made that claim in a post riddled with errors. I just pointed out that he seemed like a moron because of it. Again, no big deal. Why Perdue has decided that I would include him in my observations about one person that attacked me, I do not know.
| Subtle WRX | 09-23-2004 09:45 PM |
[QUOTE=Capt Crunch]He's my take on the give and take.
Subtle WRX - Hi. I want to make my sti a sleeper. How do I do it?
Nasioc - do you know anything about your car? Maybe you need to know more before you are privledged enough to buy the "dream machine".
Subtle WRX - The sti is not my "dream machine." I can do what I want to it. I think the sti looks dumb with the spoiler. My porsche's wing looks better.
Nasioc - I hate you because of you grammar you snooty bastard. Nobody needs two fast cars.
Subtle WRX - Your grammar sucks too. I guess you assumed I was a rich prick because I type complete sentences.
Nasioc - You are rich, and a prick. Real men drive cars with 4 doors.
Am I missing something?[/QUOTE]
Not bad. Except for "Your grammar sucks too." I would drop the "too" from that sentence. My grammar is fine.
And real men drive trucks.
Subtle WRX - Hi. I want to make my sti a sleeper. How do I do it?
Nasioc - do you know anything about your car? Maybe you need to know more before you are privledged enough to buy the "dream machine".
Subtle WRX - The sti is not my "dream machine." I can do what I want to it. I think the sti looks dumb with the spoiler. My porsche's wing looks better.
Nasioc - I hate you because of you grammar you snooty bastard. Nobody needs two fast cars.
Subtle WRX - Your grammar sucks too. I guess you assumed I was a rich prick because I type complete sentences.
Nasioc - You are rich, and a prick. Real men drive cars with 4 doors.
Am I missing something?[/QUOTE]
Not bad. Except for "Your grammar sucks too." I would drop the "too" from that sentence. My grammar is fine.
And real men drive trucks.
| Capt Crunch | 09-23-2004 09:47 PM |
bah, lets forget about it.
so:
APS BLACK <-- color is important --- front mount intercooler
RS hood
paint your brakes
get silver wheels
trade trunks with someone
take off badges
you will probably break out even. you don't need engine management for a front mount intercooler.
so:
APS BLACK <-- color is important --- front mount intercooler
RS hood
paint your brakes
get silver wheels
trade trunks with someone
take off badges
you will probably break out even. you don't need engine management for a front mount intercooler.
| ronaldwrx | 09-23-2004 10:05 PM |
episode 13 of tuner transformation did this.
[url]http://www.tunertransformation.com/e13.htm[/url]
no spoiler, no hood scoop, aps fmic, aps tbe, ecutek, etc
[url]http://www.tunertransformation.com/e13.htm[/url]
no spoiler, no hood scoop, aps fmic, aps tbe, ecutek, etc
| mrl859 | 09-23-2004 10:13 PM |
I may be wrong here, and if I am, I'm sure EVERYONE will let me know, but I don't believe you can order an STI. My dealer told me, and I thought I confirmed it somewhere, that the dealer gets an allotment and takes whatever they are given. If I'm correct, it kinda' changes the complexion of this entire thread.
| Subtle WRX | 09-23-2004 10:19 PM |
Where can I see this?
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[QUOTE=ronaldwrx]episode 13 of tuner transformation did this.
[url]http://www.tunertransformation.com/e13.htm[/url]
no spoiler, no hood scoop, aps fmic, aps tbe, ecutek, etc[/QUOTE]
Hey, thanks. I would really like to see that episode. Do you know if they replay it, or does anyone have it taped?
[url]http://www.tunertransformation.com/e13.htm[/url]
no spoiler, no hood scoop, aps fmic, aps tbe, ecutek, etc[/QUOTE]
Hey, thanks. I would really like to see that episode. Do you know if they replay it, or does anyone have it taped?
| austinpike | 09-23-2004 10:25 PM |
[QUOTE=mrl859]I'm sure EVERYONE will let me know, but I don't believe you can order an STI.[/QUOTE]
Yes you can order an STi.
They may not want to order you an STi if the ones sitting on the lot aren't selling.
No you [B]cannot[/B] order one without a wing.
So there really isn't much point to ordering one, unless for some reason the dealer can't find one in the color you want within 500 miles. The options are all dealer installable.
My assumption is they all come from Japan with the wing. When you order one they aren't building it for you in Japan, they just pull the appropriate color off the boat at the port and install the various options. They are not equipped to swap wings/trunks.
Yes you can order an STi.
They may not want to order you an STi if the ones sitting on the lot aren't selling.
No you [B]cannot[/B] order one without a wing.
So there really isn't much point to ordering one, unless for some reason the dealer can't find one in the color you want within 500 miles. The options are all dealer installable.
My assumption is they all come from Japan with the wing. When you order one they aren't building it for you in Japan, they just pull the appropriate color off the boat at the port and install the various options. They are not equipped to swap wings/trunks.
| dkl | 09-23-2004 11:56 PM |
To try and stick to the original thread: I agree with those who have said to paint the brakes and get the silver BBS wheels, as well as debadge and swap trunks. A couple of important points though: First of all, it should be noted that the RS hoods are steel instead of the WRX/Sti aluminium. This will add a lot of weight (maybe 40-50 lbs, just guessing), if you care. Also, I do think that as most FMIC's are larger than the top-mounts, you will see a slight perfomance increase, although there are certainly better things you could do. Further, a front mount will require the removal of your bumper beam and some other stuff, again, if you care. Front mounts are also only really stealthy if you are not looking at the front of your car, although a flat black will certainly help a lot.
P.S. Please excuse any grammatical errors or unintential snobbiness.
P.S. Please excuse any grammatical errors or unintential snobbiness.
| elijah25rs | 09-24-2004 12:20 AM |
1. FMIC
2. RS hood
3. Swap bumper with WRX/RS
4. Black stock BBS rims
5. Black stock Brembo calipers
6. Swap side skirts with 02-04 Unpainted WRX sides
7. Swap trunks with 02-04 WRX/RS
8. Rebadge to 2.5RS
2. RS hood
3. Swap bumper with WRX/RS
4. Black stock BBS rims
5. Black stock Brembo calipers
6. Swap side skirts with 02-04 Unpainted WRX sides
7. Swap trunks with 02-04 WRX/RS
8. Rebadge to 2.5RS
| nxxwrx | 09-24-2004 04:37 PM |
Subtle WRX
I have an 04 STi(black) and had the trunk swapped for a completely wingless stock Impreza trunk. The dealership did it for me, under an IOU agreement, before I took final delivery of the car at no extra cost to me.(I am sure that they more than made up any cost they incurred by selling the brand new trunk to someone else) I have not experienced any handling problems as a result of the loss of the areodynamic load that the wing would have provided at certain speeds. I took off the wing for the same reason as you. I wanted a more toned down look. I am 35 and I guess being older I could not see myself in a car with wing that large on it.(neither could my wife)
One problem I did experience was that the brand new wingless trunk they gave me came without ANY of the badges. The dealer also ordered and applied those for me free of charge. Another concern that popped up was that on the 04 STi(not sure if it's the same on the 05 STi) the center brake light is incorporated into the base of the wing. Wing gone, center brake light gone. The dealer also took care of this for me by having a rear dash center mounted stock impreza brake light installed. All told, thru the trial and error method, it took two weeks for me to get the final product, but it was well worth the wait and it cost me nothing more than the time it took. Also, I have a two year old daughter and thanks to the child seat latches in the car, I have no trouble taking her car seat in and out of the back seat. It usually only takes me about two or three minutes to do.
I am not sure if you are still reading this thread, but if you are I hope this info was helpful.
I have an 04 STi(black) and had the trunk swapped for a completely wingless stock Impreza trunk. The dealership did it for me, under an IOU agreement, before I took final delivery of the car at no extra cost to me.(I am sure that they more than made up any cost they incurred by selling the brand new trunk to someone else) I have not experienced any handling problems as a result of the loss of the areodynamic load that the wing would have provided at certain speeds. I took off the wing for the same reason as you. I wanted a more toned down look. I am 35 and I guess being older I could not see myself in a car with wing that large on it.(neither could my wife)
One problem I did experience was that the brand new wingless trunk they gave me came without ANY of the badges. The dealer also ordered and applied those for me free of charge. Another concern that popped up was that on the 04 STi(not sure if it's the same on the 05 STi) the center brake light is incorporated into the base of the wing. Wing gone, center brake light gone. The dealer also took care of this for me by having a rear dash center mounted stock impreza brake light installed. All told, thru the trial and error method, it took two weeks for me to get the final product, but it was well worth the wait and it cost me nothing more than the time it took. Also, I have a two year old daughter and thanks to the child seat latches in the car, I have no trouble taking her car seat in and out of the back seat. It usually only takes me about two or three minutes to do.
I am not sure if you are still reading this thread, but if you are I hope this info was helpful.
| Subtle WRX | 09-24-2004 05:24 PM |
Still here
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Hey nxxwrx,
Thanks for the input. At the end of the day, the wing is the biggest problem. I could probably live with the (silver) rims and the hood scoop, though it does look like a giant nostril.
:eek:
Thanks for the input. At the end of the day, the wing is the biggest problem. I could probably live with the (silver) rims and the hood scoop, though it does look like a giant nostril.
:eek:
| snvin | 09-24-2004 05:49 PM |
Subtle - I think we have similar tastes, and I'll just throw my 2 cents in here:
If I had an STi, I'd 1) go wingless, 2) look into getting a 'regular' hood scoop, 3) paint the calipers black, grey, or another inconspicuous color, 4) light tint on the windows to obscure the screaming blue seats, 5) de-badge
That's it, cosmetically. I think that if you did the above you'd have a pretty subdued STi.
If I had an STi, I'd 1) go wingless, 2) look into getting a 'regular' hood scoop, 3) paint the calipers black, grey, or another inconspicuous color, 4) light tint on the windows to obscure the screaming blue seats, 5) de-badge
That's it, cosmetically. I think that if you did the above you'd have a pretty subdued STi.
| Perdue | 09-25-2004 09:31 AM |
I agree with the tinted windows... I'd either go that route or find some stock wrx seats to subdue the interior.
| mbeach | 09-25-2004 02:40 PM |
A note on the APS intercooler. It is huge, and regardless of the color, most definately not subtle. Mine picks up rock chips and birds regularly, so the black paint (assuming it's going to be Swain's BBE) will eventually get scoured off and look like butt.
Better to get a more efficient TMIC and tone down the hood scoop.
Better to get a more efficient TMIC and tone down the hood scoop.
| Thumper23 | 09-25-2004 04:26 PM |
this is easy, the STi is the wrong car for you
the Legacy GT on the other hand
the Legacy GT on the other hand
| badboiWRX | 09-25-2004 04:30 PM |
bah, you think its so ugly then get something else. Audi, BMW, Mercedes Benz... they all have fast 4 door models that do not need wings yet are fine for 200mph runs on the Autobahn.
the subaru body produces tons of drag and turbulence behind the rear window and behind the trunk. this spoiler is there not only to apply some downforce, but also to decrease drag, which in turn increases gas mileage. On top of that, the wing is balanced with the front end aerodynamics which can cause dangerous conditions while racing. By changing to a front mount, you gain ridiculous amounts of lag and then you need to compensate with a big turbo that makes its ridiculous power at the top end, so now you have a neck snapping vehicle at high rpms that will become unstable at higher speeds (70mph and up aerodynamics come into play and an emergency maneuver can lead to a tail out catastrophy) to strap your baby seat into. it doesn't take a rich prick or a know-it-all to know that.
Try the Mercedes E55 AMG, 12.4 sec 1/4 mile, 4 doors, automatic, actually a comfortable ride for your kid instead of bump after bump after jolt. Not to mention, it'll blow the doors off a STi, all without a wing.
the subaru body produces tons of drag and turbulence behind the rear window and behind the trunk. this spoiler is there not only to apply some downforce, but also to decrease drag, which in turn increases gas mileage. On top of that, the wing is balanced with the front end aerodynamics which can cause dangerous conditions while racing. By changing to a front mount, you gain ridiculous amounts of lag and then you need to compensate with a big turbo that makes its ridiculous power at the top end, so now you have a neck snapping vehicle at high rpms that will become unstable at higher speeds (70mph and up aerodynamics come into play and an emergency maneuver can lead to a tail out catastrophy) to strap your baby seat into. it doesn't take a rich prick or a know-it-all to know that.
Try the Mercedes E55 AMG, 12.4 sec 1/4 mile, 4 doors, automatic, actually a comfortable ride for your kid instead of bump after bump after jolt. Not to mention, it'll blow the doors off a STi, all without a wing.
| My White Asspen | 09-25-2004 04:50 PM |
at 100 mph the spoiler creates 50 lbs of downforce. In order for you to get ride od the big hood scoop then you have to go with a fmic because the scoop is functional. The bbs rims that come with the sti are very ligth weight it would be hard and very expensive to find lighter ones.
| Subtle WRX | 09-25-2004 05:54 PM |
Morons can't keep quiet.
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�
Dearest badboiWRX,
Thanks for enlivening the thread just when it was settling back to normal. Your comments are essentially worthless, and if I didn't find it entertaining to respond to you simply to call you $h1t-for-brains, I would simply ignore your post.
Let me help you to understand why I am interested in the Subaru. It is very quick compared with most stock cars on the road, yet, minus the wing and scoop, looks like a econobox that grandma could use to pick up her stool softener (stool is another word for $h1t badboi, you know, the soft stuff between your ears?)
As to your comment that Audi, Merc, etc. all have 4 door models good for 200 mph blasts...uh...no they don't. Very few cars will break 200 mph, and those that will are very expensive and generally impractical for daily use. And more to the point - it is not relevant to my original post, wherein I specifically stated that I had no intention of racing the car or driving it particularly fast.
If I wanted a Merc E55 AMG, I wouldn't be on this forum. Why not a Ferrari 550? A Hummer? A Ducati? Because they are not affordable, quick, all wheel drive, reliable, four door, and potentially stealthy cars. Moron.
I discount your commentary regarding the removal of the spoiler. While I suspect it may provide very limited down force at 70, I doubt it is significant. I don't think it has a meaningful effect on gas mileage either - if I cared, I'd buy a hybrid Toyota or something.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for enlivening the thread just when it was settling back to normal. Your comments are essentially worthless, and if I didn't find it entertaining to respond to you simply to call you $h1t-for-brains, I would simply ignore your post.
Let me help you to understand why I am interested in the Subaru. It is very quick compared with most stock cars on the road, yet, minus the wing and scoop, looks like a econobox that grandma could use to pick up her stool softener (stool is another word for $h1t badboi, you know, the soft stuff between your ears?)
As to your comment that Audi, Merc, etc. all have 4 door models good for 200 mph blasts...uh...no they don't. Very few cars will break 200 mph, and those that will are very expensive and generally impractical for daily use. And more to the point - it is not relevant to my original post, wherein I specifically stated that I had no intention of racing the car or driving it particularly fast.
If I wanted a Merc E55 AMG, I wouldn't be on this forum. Why not a Ferrari 550? A Hummer? A Ducati? Because they are not affordable, quick, all wheel drive, reliable, four door, and potentially stealthy cars. Moron.
I discount your commentary regarding the removal of the spoiler. While I suspect it may provide very limited down force at 70, I doubt it is significant. I don't think it has a meaningful effect on gas mileage either - if I cared, I'd buy a hybrid Toyota or something.
Thanks for sharing.
| badboiWRX | 09-25-2004 06:17 PM |
ignorance is bliss... in this case denial or a lack of rational thought...
and in euro spec, many cars can get pretty close to 200mph... enjoy the bandwagon...
and in euro spec, many cars can get pretty close to 200mph... enjoy the bandwagon...
| TVA | 09-25-2004 06:52 PM |
ANYWAY... Subtle, a couple of people have commented on the Legacy GT, but I have yet to hear a response concerning it from you. From the things that you described, it seems as though this would be a car more befitting of you. It is still quite peppy, yet it looks more like the grocery getter that you have envisioned. There will be more rear seat room (not sure if you care) and a much less boy-racer interior. Just something to consider I suppose.
TVA
TVA
| Subtle WRX | 09-25-2004 07:13 PM |
[QUOTE=badboiWRX]ignorance is bliss... in this case denial or a lack of rational thought...
and in euro spec, many cars can get pretty close to 200mph... enjoy the bandwagon...[/QUOTE]
Pretty close...oh, gee, thanks for enlightening me.
and in euro spec, many cars can get pretty close to 200mph... enjoy the bandwagon...[/QUOTE]
Pretty close...oh, gee, thanks for enlightening me.
| Subtle WRX | 09-25-2004 07:15 PM |
Legacy - Nice, but no.
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Hey TVA - The Legacy, while a nice car, does not have the performance of the WRX and though peppy, is not for me.
| ciscofreak | 09-26-2004 12:31 AM |
[QUOTE=Subtle WRX]Dearest badboiWRX,
Thanks for enlivening the thread just when it was settling back to normal. Your comments are essentially worthless, and if I didn't find it entertaining to respond to you simply to call you $h1t-for-brains, I would simply ignore your post.
Let me help you to understand why I am interested in the Subaru. It is very quick compared with most stock cars on the road, yet, minus the wing and scoop, [B]looks like a econobox that grandma could use to pick up her stool softener [/B] (stool is another word for $h1t badboi, you know, the soft stuff between your ears?)
As to your comment that Audi, Merc, etc. all have 4 door models good for 200 mph blasts...uh...no they don't. Very few cars will break 200 mph, and those that will are very expensive and generally impractical for daily use. And more to the point - it is not relevant to my original post, wherein I specifically stated that I had no intention of racing the car or driving it particularly fast.
If I wanted a Merc E55 AMG, I wouldn't be on this forum. Why not a Ferrari 550? A Hummer? A Ducati? Because they are not affordable, quick, all wheel drive, reliable, four door, and potentially stealthy cars. Moron.
I discount your commentary regarding the removal of the spoiler. While I suspect it may provide very limited down force at 70, I doubt it is significant. I don't think it has a meaningful effect on gas mileage either - if I cared, I'd buy a hybrid Toyota or something.
Thanks for sharing.[/QUOTE]
That's nice that you equate an Imreza RS to a grandma going for her metamucil.
You come off as an arrogant prick that probably doesn't even own a car. I think everyone that is giving you $hit is right on the money.
Oh yea, I think the wing on the Porche 996 looks way gay....
Thanks for enlivening the thread just when it was settling back to normal. Your comments are essentially worthless, and if I didn't find it entertaining to respond to you simply to call you $h1t-for-brains, I would simply ignore your post.
Let me help you to understand why I am interested in the Subaru. It is very quick compared with most stock cars on the road, yet, minus the wing and scoop, [B]looks like a econobox that grandma could use to pick up her stool softener [/B] (stool is another word for $h1t badboi, you know, the soft stuff between your ears?)
As to your comment that Audi, Merc, etc. all have 4 door models good for 200 mph blasts...uh...no they don't. Very few cars will break 200 mph, and those that will are very expensive and generally impractical for daily use. And more to the point - it is not relevant to my original post, wherein I specifically stated that I had no intention of racing the car or driving it particularly fast.
If I wanted a Merc E55 AMG, I wouldn't be on this forum. Why not a Ferrari 550? A Hummer? A Ducati? Because they are not affordable, quick, all wheel drive, reliable, four door, and potentially stealthy cars. Moron.
I discount your commentary regarding the removal of the spoiler. While I suspect it may provide very limited down force at 70, I doubt it is significant. I don't think it has a meaningful effect on gas mileage either - if I cared, I'd buy a hybrid Toyota or something.
Thanks for sharing.[/QUOTE]
That's nice that you equate an Imreza RS to a grandma going for her metamucil.
You come off as an arrogant prick that probably doesn't even own a car. I think everyone that is giving you $hit is right on the money.
Oh yea, I think the wing on the Porche 996 looks way gay....
| Subtle WRX | 09-26-2004 02:36 AM |
cisco wins the spelling bee
�
�
Yeah, that's it, cisco, I don't even own a car. Not even an "Imreza".
Moron.
Moron.
| Subtle WRX | 09-26-2004 02:39 AM |
[QUOTE=ciscofreak]Oh yea, I think the wing on the Porche 996 looks way gay....[/QUOTE]
Great, a homophobic drop out. I already said that while a Porche is nice, a Porsche is usually better. Yea (or yeah.) :lol:
Great, a homophobic drop out. I already said that while a Porche is nice, a Porsche is usually better. Yea (or yeah.) :lol:
| 2k2 | 09-26-2004 03:12 AM |
again
[QUOTE=TVA]ANYWAY... Subtle, a couple of people have commented on the Legacy GT, but I have yet to hear a response concerning it from you. From the things that you described, it seems as though this would be a car more befitting of you. It is still quite peppy, yet it looks more like the grocery getter that you have envisioned. There will be more rear seat room (not sure if you care) and a much less boy-racer interior. Just something to consider I suppose.
TVA[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=TVA]ANYWAY... Subtle, a couple of people have commented on the Legacy GT, but I have yet to hear a response concerning it from you. From the things that you described, it seems as though this would be a car more befitting of you. It is still quite peppy, yet it looks more like the grocery getter that you have envisioned. There will be more rear seat room (not sure if you care) and a much less boy-racer interior. Just something to consider I suppose.
TVA[/QUOTE]
| Handsdown | 09-26-2004 03:19 AM |
subtle- whatever you do, don't go over to clubwrx with that stick up your ass... they'd pull it out and give you a permenent ban faster than you can say "porshe is spelled porsche"
like i give a **** how to spell your adolf-cart
nasioc is pretty lax... but if you call one more member a moron i'm going to get angry.
[i]you wouldn't like me when i'm angry...[/i] :alien:
like i give a **** how to spell your adolf-cart
nasioc is pretty lax... but if you call one more member a moron i'm going to get angry.
[i]you wouldn't like me when i'm angry...[/i] :alien:
| Subtle WRX | 09-26-2004 11:19 AM |
Pearl Harbor ring a bell?
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�
My Adolf cart? That's funny coming from a guy that loves his �hey the Japanese-Bombed-Pearl-Harbor-Remember?� car.
I'm just enjoying myself here with all the angry youngsters so full of opinions and misspellings. I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings. Subaru owners are known to be sensitive, but I had no idea.
So, in the spirit of community, I will withhold all reacting to insults for the moment and try to get back to the topic.
I think that the Subaru in general is a decent car. I particularly like the '05 redesigns - they look great. I want an affordable four door sleeper for running to town without concern that some kid in a worn out Acura Integra with a big huge tailpipe will smoke me off the line. The WRX STi, if made stealth, seems like the ideal solution. Not a $80,000 Benz (thanks for the suggestion, though), not a Legacy (though a nice ride, it opens up the whole range of comparable vehicles, and that pesky Acura Integra might still run away from it.)
I also feel, that personally, for me, as an old man compared to many WRX drivers, that the wing/scoop is a bit too much of a look-at-me-and-my-go-cart statement. I already said that if this were 20 years ago, I would paint racing stripes on it and attach some neon. But it isn't. Plus - hello - I'm going for the SLEEPER effect. Not the HERE I AM effect.
I have received a few messages since this post began - surprisingly more than one WRX fan has suggested that, if it is within my budget, I could get an Audi S4, and with a few mods be able to run with or away from most any WRX out there while being super-stealth. The message was - hey, the Subaru is nice....but the Audi is a better ride. Seems there are a few Adolf lurkers on the WRX board here. What do you know?
But I remain very interested in the WRX, despite my snootiness and immense wealth. [That was an attempt at a bit of tongue in cheek humor, save the bitter diatribe about how I act rich, thanks.]
Well, I think at this point I have learned all I need to know about the WRX STi, including what things I might do to make it stealth and the complications I might run into in doing so, how some WRX fans are very helpful and knowledgeable and others are...well...still learning basic skills but enthusiastic nevertheless. I will continue to check in with this thread and when I get my WRX all set up (I "ordered" one yesterday - no you don't really order one per se, but they are getting me one in the color I asked for, and with NO WING!) I will post some pics of it so you can applaud my efforts or tell me how I ruined a good thing. Oh - I'll park it next to the Porsche when I take the pics - just to annoy a few of you. ;) Thanks.
I'm just enjoying myself here with all the angry youngsters so full of opinions and misspellings. I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings. Subaru owners are known to be sensitive, but I had no idea.
So, in the spirit of community, I will withhold all reacting to insults for the moment and try to get back to the topic.
I think that the Subaru in general is a decent car. I particularly like the '05 redesigns - they look great. I want an affordable four door sleeper for running to town without concern that some kid in a worn out Acura Integra with a big huge tailpipe will smoke me off the line. The WRX STi, if made stealth, seems like the ideal solution. Not a $80,000 Benz (thanks for the suggestion, though), not a Legacy (though a nice ride, it opens up the whole range of comparable vehicles, and that pesky Acura Integra might still run away from it.)
I also feel, that personally, for me, as an old man compared to many WRX drivers, that the wing/scoop is a bit too much of a look-at-me-and-my-go-cart statement. I already said that if this were 20 years ago, I would paint racing stripes on it and attach some neon. But it isn't. Plus - hello - I'm going for the SLEEPER effect. Not the HERE I AM effect.
I have received a few messages since this post began - surprisingly more than one WRX fan has suggested that, if it is within my budget, I could get an Audi S4, and with a few mods be able to run with or away from most any WRX out there while being super-stealth. The message was - hey, the Subaru is nice....but the Audi is a better ride. Seems there are a few Adolf lurkers on the WRX board here. What do you know?
But I remain very interested in the WRX, despite my snootiness and immense wealth. [That was an attempt at a bit of tongue in cheek humor, save the bitter diatribe about how I act rich, thanks.]
Well, I think at this point I have learned all I need to know about the WRX STi, including what things I might do to make it stealth and the complications I might run into in doing so, how some WRX fans are very helpful and knowledgeable and others are...well...still learning basic skills but enthusiastic nevertheless. I will continue to check in with this thread and when I get my WRX all set up (I "ordered" one yesterday - no you don't really order one per se, but they are getting me one in the color I asked for, and with NO WING!) I will post some pics of it so you can applaud my efforts or tell me how I ruined a good thing. Oh - I'll park it next to the Porsche when I take the pics - just to annoy a few of you. ;) Thanks.
| mbeach | 09-26-2004 01:10 PM |
Congrats on the purchase.
Subaru makes a great car, but there are a few items that irritate me:
-Poor paint. Looks good for exactly 7 days, then rocks take their toll. I have scratches/chips from hitting BUGS.
-Constant worry about the tranny. No problems here (45k miles with 300whp on the ORIGINAL clutch), but I knock on wood every day.
-Interior. Excellent ergos, but cheap looking. Not up to "adolf-cart" standards (I've had a few, and they weren't VWs).
Good and bad:
-Subaru owners. As technically savvy as a true BMW enthusiast, as loyal and helpful as a Nissan lover, but often as hard-headed as a Honda fanatic. On occasion I do see some "working class hate" get tossed around these boards (remember the "Snaab" (9-2x) thread?) it just comes with the territory. Ten years ago, Subarus were the weapon of choice for the Granola-crunching, tree-hugging crowd. I guess that we are just trying too hard to shake that image.
Subaru makes a great car, but there are a few items that irritate me:
-Poor paint. Looks good for exactly 7 days, then rocks take their toll. I have scratches/chips from hitting BUGS.
-Constant worry about the tranny. No problems here (45k miles with 300whp on the ORIGINAL clutch), but I knock on wood every day.
-Interior. Excellent ergos, but cheap looking. Not up to "adolf-cart" standards (I've had a few, and they weren't VWs).
Good and bad:
-Subaru owners. As technically savvy as a true BMW enthusiast, as loyal and helpful as a Nissan lover, but often as hard-headed as a Honda fanatic. On occasion I do see some "working class hate" get tossed around these boards (remember the "Snaab" (9-2x) thread?) it just comes with the territory. Ten years ago, Subarus were the weapon of choice for the Granola-crunching, tree-hugging crowd. I guess that we are just trying too hard to shake that image.
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