| boxerT | 11-08-2003 12:18 AM |
Formula Drift - a new drifting championship series by SCCA
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[url]http://www.scca.org/news/press03_146.html[/url]
| Bonzo | 11-08-2003 01:15 AM |
:huh: a sad day for sports car enthusiasts and the scca
| JMU R1 | 11-08-2003 04:19 AM |
For one, NASA has already had the US Drift Nationals for over a year now so SCCA can't claim to be "first".
I'm not sure I like drifting being sanctioned by the SCCA but what the hey. But rather than do something all new and not really related to their mission, I'd rather see SCCA fix some of its chronic problems like their refusal to issue competitive weight adjustments in IT, their buffonnery in handling SCCA Rally, or the quickly escalating costs in World Challenge Touring (not to mention their poor promotion of the series). There are a myriad of problems with the SCCA, some of which they have not even begun to address and I think its kind of stupid that they're all gung ho about doing something new rather than fixing what they already do. Fixing what's wrong NOW would help [i]all[/i] of the SCCA much more than sponsoring drifting.
I'm not sure I like drifting being sanctioned by the SCCA but what the hey. But rather than do something all new and not really related to their mission, I'd rather see SCCA fix some of its chronic problems like their refusal to issue competitive weight adjustments in IT, their buffonnery in handling SCCA Rally, or the quickly escalating costs in World Challenge Touring (not to mention their poor promotion of the series). There are a myriad of problems with the SCCA, some of which they have not even begun to address and I think its kind of stupid that they're all gung ho about doing something new rather than fixing what they already do. Fixing what's wrong NOW would help [i]all[/i] of the SCCA much more than sponsoring drifting.
| ChrisW | 11-08-2003 11:27 AM |
Drifting is like Nascrap. first time you see it, it's like "hey that's pretty cool". Then after a while, your like "eh? so what..."
To each his own I guess. I would rather see an officially organized drifting event than to see some stupid street ricer do it on the street.
To each his own I guess. I would rather see an officially organized drifting event than to see some stupid street ricer do it on the street.
| Orion | 11-08-2003 11:34 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Bonzo [/i]
[B]:huh: a sad day for sports car enthusiasts and the scca [/B][/QUOTE]
i agree.
Ugh.
[B]:huh: a sad day for sports car enthusiasts and the scca [/B][/QUOTE]
i agree.
Ugh.
| mykrrrr | 11-08-2003 06:52 PM |
It's like the "suits" getting ahold of "punk" music or grunge. :huh:
I like seeing the JPN footage on tracks and on the streets but it does get a bit tedious after a bit especially if it's the same track over and over and over.
Oh well...to each his own.
-mykr.
I like seeing the JPN footage on tracks and on the streets but it does get a bit tedious after a bit especially if it's the same track over and over and over.
Oh well...to each his own.
-mykr.
| CoiloverKid | 11-08-2003 09:00 PM |
i'll stick to competing in non-scca drift events kthxbye.
| mtb_dude | 11-08-2003 10:06 PM |
Drifting ... The figure skating of motorsports :rolleyes:
| AndyRoo | 11-08-2003 10:35 PM |
:lol:
...nice
...nice
| Bonzo | 11-08-2003 11:02 PM |
drifting is not like nascar. nascar is ultra competetive racing. drifting is just goofing off burning rubber for a spectacle of mis-guided enthusiasts.
| loreley | 11-09-2003 12:38 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mtb_dude[/i]
[B] Drifting ... The figure skating of motorsports :rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]
i couldnt agree with you more
[B] Drifting ... The figure skating of motorsports :rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]
i couldnt agree with you more
| STX_REX | 11-09-2003 07:37 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mtb_dude [/i]
[B]Drifting ... The figure skating of motorsports :rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol: Dead on !
Whats next syncronized slalomning (sp.?)
[B]Drifting ... The figure skating of motorsports :rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol: Dead on !
Whats next syncronized slalomning (sp.?)
| 2.0 | 11-09-2003 08:23 AM |
The only reason the SCCA is sanctioning this stuff is to "tap in" to the "tuner" market. They see how many kids show up at the events and it doesn't take long to see how much money they can make. SCCA is selling out.
| Burnout | 11-09-2003 11:49 AM |
They should get rid of rally to, i mean after all its just one big drift after another.
| CoiloverKid | 11-09-2003 03:15 PM |
i've been in many a drift competition and i choose not to participate in this. It's basically run by slipstream global with the SCCA name on it. SSG is also responsible for all the riced-out tunerfest car shows and bringing that mentality into the drift community and let alone the average import community is a big mistake.
but it's ok, drifting has a poser-filter, it's called skill :D
but it's ok, drifting has a poser-filter, it's called skill :D
| dwx | 11-09-2003 04:17 PM |
Like someone said on another board, it's like freestyle skiing is to downhill. It's not racing, it's a spectacle. I find it dissapointing my SCCA membership dollars are being used for this however, I'd much rather they be used for real racing.
| mtb_dude | 11-09-2003 06:19 PM |
Totally agree. Unless they can get a huge net income and use that to better the whole organization. I'm more pissed at the whole "Formula"Drift thing. That's just an insult to racing to put the word formula in the same paragraph as drift.
| Mopho | 11-09-2003 06:33 PM |
[i]I find it disappointing my SCCA membership dollars are being used for this however, I'd much rather they be used for real racing.[/i]
Actually, your SCCA membership dollars will not likely be used for it. It is the SCCA Pro Racing division, which is for profit. Drifting competitions will have to pay the SCCA to sanction the event and provide insurance, so the SCCA will actually make money from it. The tracks and promoters will make money from ticket sales and entry fees, etc. It will work like the Speed World Challenge.
[i]their buffonnery in handling SCCA Rally, or the quickly escalating costs in World Challenge Touring (not to mention their poor promotion of the series). [/i]
Club rally, maybe- pro rally, maybe, depending on which side of the fence you stand, but the sport has grown tenfold in the past few years, so how is that bad? WC cost escalating, well that comes with more competition, teams keep trying to beat each other so they spend more money, that is brought on by themselves not the SCCA and it is the same in any motorsport, or almost any pro sport for that matter. Poor promotion, I don't know, there are two one hour TV shows, I am constantly seeing WC stuff in magazines (Car and Driver just had a big story) and this summer I did a WC photoshoot that they are planning to do an ad campaign in some major magazines next year ( I have not heard for sure but they hired me to take the photos...)
Yes, drifting is like figure skating, freestyle skiing, gymnastics, etc. so what!? It takes a hell of a lot more skill than drag racing! (more interesting to watch too) And we all know how much NASIOC'ers love drag racing
Drifting is a marketing dream, it takes the best of rally-sliding cars and good car control- and the best of the import car scene-bolt on go fast parts on street cars- and puts it into an easy to manage, spectate and promote package. It would be foolish for the SCCA or any automotive based company to overlook this "spectacle".
While not my cup of tea, I really don't see any problem with it
Actually, your SCCA membership dollars will not likely be used for it. It is the SCCA Pro Racing division, which is for profit. Drifting competitions will have to pay the SCCA to sanction the event and provide insurance, so the SCCA will actually make money from it. The tracks and promoters will make money from ticket sales and entry fees, etc. It will work like the Speed World Challenge.
[i]their buffonnery in handling SCCA Rally, or the quickly escalating costs in World Challenge Touring (not to mention their poor promotion of the series). [/i]
Club rally, maybe- pro rally, maybe, depending on which side of the fence you stand, but the sport has grown tenfold in the past few years, so how is that bad? WC cost escalating, well that comes with more competition, teams keep trying to beat each other so they spend more money, that is brought on by themselves not the SCCA and it is the same in any motorsport, or almost any pro sport for that matter. Poor promotion, I don't know, there are two one hour TV shows, I am constantly seeing WC stuff in magazines (Car and Driver just had a big story) and this summer I did a WC photoshoot that they are planning to do an ad campaign in some major magazines next year ( I have not heard for sure but they hired me to take the photos...)
Yes, drifting is like figure skating, freestyle skiing, gymnastics, etc. so what!? It takes a hell of a lot more skill than drag racing! (more interesting to watch too) And we all know how much NASIOC'ers love drag racing
Drifting is a marketing dream, it takes the best of rally-sliding cars and good car control- and the best of the import car scene-bolt on go fast parts on street cars- and puts it into an easy to manage, spectate and promote package. It would be foolish for the SCCA or any automotive based company to overlook this "spectacle".
While not my cup of tea, I really don't see any problem with it
| RichQY | 11-09-2003 06:38 PM |
i dunno where this hatred came from.
:confused:
whats not to like? have you ever been to a real drifting event?
:confused:
whats not to like? have you ever been to a real drifting event?
| scotty305 | 11-10-2003 12:43 AM |
The only problem I forsee with drifting is all the fanboys that will come along as it gets more popular (see: 2002 WRX).
-s-
-s-
| mlambert | 11-10-2003 01:22 AM |
I dont really hate drifting as an silly motorsports event, I just dont like the folks that say its what its not and hype it. Its just a silly motorsports event :)
| scobaru | 11-10-2003 02:21 AM |
drifting is about car control. it's a controlled lost of traction. if you are able to drift then it can help you with your autocrossing it'll let you know the limits of the car. most of the time with racing events its about who's fastest with drifting a 180hp hachi roku aka 80's corolla can beat a 600hp RX-7 by how well the car is controlled with no grip to the pavement. Drifting does involve skill and lots of it seening a D1 drifter drift though some of these turns compared to anyone else who tries is amazing how well they can control it all the way though. its not as simple as hp eating up the rear tires
| AndyRoo | 11-10-2003 03:11 AM |
I agree, it does take a lot of skill and is impressive and probably entertaining to watch, although i have never seen anything more then pictures.
However, it just doesnt seem to fit with the SCCA. They probably should have other things on their hands, rather then trying really hard to be cool.
I honestly dont mind it that much though.
That "figure skating of motorsports" thing was pretty funny though.
And who said figure skating didnt take any skill? Its just not something speed skaters are interested in (okay, weak analogy, i apologize).
However, it just doesnt seem to fit with the SCCA. They probably should have other things on their hands, rather then trying really hard to be cool.
I honestly dont mind it that much though.
That "figure skating of motorsports" thing was pretty funny though.
And who said figure skating didnt take any skill? Its just not something speed skaters are interested in (okay, weak analogy, i apologize).
| Dolphin Overton | 11-10-2003 03:26 AM |
SCCA... is that a country club or something? sounds like it after reading these posts.
| nekoball | 11-10-2003 03:40 AM |
SCCA = sports car club of america
| gerbs | 11-10-2003 03:52 AM |
[url]http://www.scca.org/[/url]
i think everyone w/ a 2004 got a free membership for a year, i did.
i think everyone w/ a 2004 got a free membership for a year, i did.
| RebelINS | 11-10-2003 05:34 AM |
I think some people are confused by peoples objections to drifting being sanctioned by the SCCA. It seems like every pro drifter is contending that it involves skill, which isn't really the issue. Yes, it does take skill to be able to do, but the whole point is it is about looking good, not being fast. It is the same thing as a moving car show, because lap times aren't the decider of who wins. That is my whole problem, it would be like if in basketball you got extra points for adding 360s to your dunks, or in football getting extra points for dancing in the end zone.
[QUOTE]SCCA = sports car club of america[/QUOTE]
I am pretty sure that the guy who commented about it being a country club was being sarcastic and making a point, just an FYI.
-Wes
[QUOTE]SCCA = sports car club of america[/QUOTE]
I am pretty sure that the guy who commented about it being a country club was being sarcastic and making a point, just an FYI.
-Wes
| KC | 11-10-2003 07:56 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by scobaru [/i]
[B]drifting is about car control. it's a controlled lost of traction. if you are able to drift then it can help you with your autocrossing it'll let you know the limits of the car. [/B][/QUOTE] I'd have to ***strongly*** disagree with this here. Drifting is about EXCEEDING the grip levels of your car while keeping forward AND sideways momentum. Auto-x is using grip to it's maximum.
The fastest run around an auto-x is who can keep grip on the edge. If you're drifting, you're losing/scrubbing off time.
Also, auto-x is generally done on much tighter courses than open race tracks where there's plenty of runoff for the generally higher speeds obtained in a drift event. (I'd love to see a 'drift course' where the turns were every 20 paces and the 180's were 40 feet wide.)
Sure there's plenty of runoff, but anyone intentionally 'drifting' at an auto-x has been and will be asked to leave. They are the slowest cars out there and hold up the event when a plethora of cones get hit becuase the car whips on them when they didn't expect it.
If Jersey barriers instead of cones were used at an auto-x, it would keep the drifters away. It's just too tight.
So let's nip this one in the bud right here, right now. Drifting will not translate any skill to an auto-x. Different spectrums here.
--kC
[B]drifting is about car control. it's a controlled lost of traction. if you are able to drift then it can help you with your autocrossing it'll let you know the limits of the car. [/B][/QUOTE] I'd have to ***strongly*** disagree with this here. Drifting is about EXCEEDING the grip levels of your car while keeping forward AND sideways momentum. Auto-x is using grip to it's maximum.
The fastest run around an auto-x is who can keep grip on the edge. If you're drifting, you're losing/scrubbing off time.
Also, auto-x is generally done on much tighter courses than open race tracks where there's plenty of runoff for the generally higher speeds obtained in a drift event. (I'd love to see a 'drift course' where the turns were every 20 paces and the 180's were 40 feet wide.)
Sure there's plenty of runoff, but anyone intentionally 'drifting' at an auto-x has been and will be asked to leave. They are the slowest cars out there and hold up the event when a plethora of cones get hit becuase the car whips on them when they didn't expect it.
If Jersey barriers instead of cones were used at an auto-x, it would keep the drifters away. It's just too tight.
So let's nip this one in the bud right here, right now. Drifting will not translate any skill to an auto-x. Different spectrums here.
--kC
| TyrannoSullyRex | 11-10-2003 11:03 AM |
SCCA = Secret Car Club of America
Here's another analogy.
Drifting=
[IMG]http://www.celebritywonder.com/mp/2003_Old_School/2003_old_school_025.jpg[/IMG]
Here's another analogy.
Drifting=
[IMG]http://www.celebritywonder.com/mp/2003_Old_School/2003_old_school_025.jpg[/IMG]
| 10th Warrior | 11-10-2003 11:07 AM |
i'm no fan of drifting but i think its a great move for the SCCA. its a club for "sports car" enthusiats, no? unless you go with the "classic" definition of a sports car, in which case it would make no sense to you that Subaru gave away memberships with WRX's because its not an Elan or Sprite, one will realize that drifting involves "sportscars" and the associated enthusiats. think of it as bringing money [b]into[/b] the club that can then translate into more spent on racing/auto-x/rally whatever. i mean, come on, you guys whine about drifting but the SCCA sanctions road rally. that's not a speed based event either.
| TyrannoSullyRex | 11-10-2003 11:09 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 10th Warrior [/i]
[B]i mean, come on, you guys whine about drifting but the SCCA sanctions road rally. that's not a speed based event either. [/B][/QUOTE]
But there is a clear winner. It's not based upon subjective terms like drifting.
[B]i mean, come on, you guys whine about drifting but the SCCA sanctions road rally. that's not a speed based event either. [/B][/QUOTE]
But there is a clear winner. It's not based upon subjective terms like drifting.
| hillman | 11-10-2003 03:11 PM |
[quote]
Actually, your SCCA membership dollars will not likely be used for it. It is the SCCA Pro Racing division, which is for profit.
[/quote]
"For profit" in theory. Pro typically operates at a loss, and is subsidized by our membership dollars ( and other SCCA income ).
Actually, your SCCA membership dollars will not likely be used for it. It is the SCCA Pro Racing division, which is for profit.
[/quote]
"For profit" in theory. Pro typically operates at a loss, and is subsidized by our membership dollars ( and other SCCA income ).
| RichQY | 11-10-2003 03:44 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RebelINS [/i]
[B] Yes, it does take skill to be able to do, but the whole point is it is about looking good, not being fast.
-Wes [/B][/QUOTE] you ve never been to a real drifting event
[B] Yes, it does take skill to be able to do, but the whole point is it is about looking good, not being fast.
-Wes [/B][/QUOTE] you ve never been to a real drifting event
| TyrannoSullyRex | 11-10-2003 04:05 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RichQY [/i]
[B]you ve never been to a real drifting event [/B][/QUOTE]
So, tell us how someone "wins" at a drifting event, please enlighten us.
edit: because I had a few minutes and was curious how these things happen I looked up on the SCCA's website and found this little tidbit:
[QUOTE]...is done on a closed course and judged on execution and style rather than who finishes the course fastest...[/QUOTE]
sounds alot like figure skating to me.
[URL=http://www.drifting.com/what_is_drifting.php]Link[/URL]
[B]you ve never been to a real drifting event [/B][/QUOTE]
So, tell us how someone "wins" at a drifting event, please enlighten us.
edit: because I had a few minutes and was curious how these things happen I looked up on the SCCA's website and found this little tidbit:
[QUOTE]...is done on a closed course and judged on execution and style rather than who finishes the course fastest...[/QUOTE]
sounds alot like figure skating to me.
[URL=http://www.drifting.com/what_is_drifting.php]Link[/URL]
| Rapid_Roo | 11-10-2003 04:38 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mtb_dude [/i]
[B]Drifting ... The figure skating of motorsports :rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I wonder how many guys in suits it takes, to make drifting 'uncool'.
[B]Drifting ... The figure skating of motorsports :rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I wonder how many guys in suits it takes, to make drifting 'uncool'.
| scobaru | 11-10-2003 05:44 PM |
KC I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say or I'm just a crappy writer. I never ment to have drifting used in a scca even to improve lap times. I ment being able to drift in a sense that you know what it'll take for your car to brake traction so in an auto X you know how far you can go to not break traction. also drifting orginated in the mountains of japan were it gets really tight and twisy and it was easer to drift and link them in the turns. lot's of drifters have to CONTROL there car in to the turn with not much space to run off. the drift events they hold in Cail is just a huge open track. the accual drift king is was and might still be a race car driver accendly drifted in a hair pin turn in his hachi and was albe to take that turn faster as a drift then the normal racers and the ablity to do this on his off race track time helped him know more about his car and what it feels like doing helping him on the track and I'm not saying he's drifting on the track to improve lap times that hair pin turn was just an accendent that helped him that one time
| RebelINS | 11-10-2003 06:30 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RichQY [/i]
[B]you ve never been to a real drifting event [/B][/QUOTE]
So, we have established that drifting around a whole course is slower, and now you are claiming you aren't judged on style, then how in the heck do you win? Is it some arbitrary thing where they just pick a name out of a hat?
No I have never been to a "real" drifting, I also have never eaten excrement, but I have a pretty good idea I wouldn't enjoy that either.
-Wes
[B]you ve never been to a real drifting event [/B][/QUOTE]
So, we have established that drifting around a whole course is slower, and now you are claiming you aren't judged on style, then how in the heck do you win? Is it some arbitrary thing where they just pick a name out of a hat?
No I have never been to a "real" drifting, I also have never eaten excrement, but I have a pretty good idea I wouldn't enjoy that either.
-Wes
| scobaru | 11-10-2003 06:36 PM |
from what I remember winning a drift event is based on how long you do not have traction how wide of a drift and how long you keep the drift if you ever spin out how close you come before losing control how close you come to the egde of a turn how many drifts do you link and how smooth the links and drifts are from one to the next. I think a REAL drift event would be ones held in japan like D1 but take whatever u can get I guess
| JMU R1 | 11-11-2003 12:32 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mopho [/i]
[i]their buffonnery in handling SCCA Rally, or the quickly escalating costs in World Challenge Touring (not to mention their poor promotion of the series). [/i]
Club rally, maybe- pro rally, maybe, depending on which side of the fence you stand, but the sport has grown tenfold in the past few years, so how is that bad? WC cost escalating, well that comes with more competition, teams keep trying to beat each other so they spend more money, that is brought on by themselves not the SCCA and it is the same in any motorsport, or almost any pro sport for that matter. Poor promotion, I don't know, there are two one hour TV shows, I am constantly seeing WC stuff in magazines (Car and Driver just had a big story) and this summer I did a WC photoshoot that they are planning to do an ad campaign in some major magazines next year ( I have not heard for sure but they hired me to take the photos...)
[/B][/QUOTE]
Cost escalation in a pro series is inevitable as competition becomes more fierce but a good sanctioning body will try to mitigate unnecessary sources of cost inflation when possible. They will also recognize when the cost to run the series is significantly outrunning the advertising value of the series.
SCCA Pro needs to be aware of this with World Challenge because the escalating costs are already forcing several teams out of the series, and these are teams with top notch drivers (Foo and Harvey for instance). They need to dial back the engine rules a bit, and they need to restrict suspension to original mounting points. They also need to get rid of some other stuff like chro-moly roll cages and the like. One could argue that it'll make the cars slower yadda, yadda, but fans are not gonna stop watching the series if the cars are 2 or 3 seconds a lap slower overall but they'll certainly stop watching if only 12 cars show up for a touring race.
As far as advertising, tell me how often you see World Challenge commercials on Speed? Then there's the fact that races are only broadcast twice, and they are tape delayed for over a week, sometimes up to two weeks. Quite unacceptable for a series with the potential of WC.
There are a lot of ways WC should be advertising beyond Speed as well. With the thousands of enthusiasts on msg boards they should be taking advantage and running banner ads. I can think of some more ways they can make their ad dollars go further but you get the point.
Hopefully next season WC will receive better treatment but I felt this year was a relatively poor effort.
[i]their buffonnery in handling SCCA Rally, or the quickly escalating costs in World Challenge Touring (not to mention their poor promotion of the series). [/i]
Club rally, maybe- pro rally, maybe, depending on which side of the fence you stand, but the sport has grown tenfold in the past few years, so how is that bad? WC cost escalating, well that comes with more competition, teams keep trying to beat each other so they spend more money, that is brought on by themselves not the SCCA and it is the same in any motorsport, or almost any pro sport for that matter. Poor promotion, I don't know, there are two one hour TV shows, I am constantly seeing WC stuff in magazines (Car and Driver just had a big story) and this summer I did a WC photoshoot that they are planning to do an ad campaign in some major magazines next year ( I have not heard for sure but they hired me to take the photos...)
[/B][/QUOTE]
Cost escalation in a pro series is inevitable as competition becomes more fierce but a good sanctioning body will try to mitigate unnecessary sources of cost inflation when possible. They will also recognize when the cost to run the series is significantly outrunning the advertising value of the series.
SCCA Pro needs to be aware of this with World Challenge because the escalating costs are already forcing several teams out of the series, and these are teams with top notch drivers (Foo and Harvey for instance). They need to dial back the engine rules a bit, and they need to restrict suspension to original mounting points. They also need to get rid of some other stuff like chro-moly roll cages and the like. One could argue that it'll make the cars slower yadda, yadda, but fans are not gonna stop watching the series if the cars are 2 or 3 seconds a lap slower overall but they'll certainly stop watching if only 12 cars show up for a touring race.
As far as advertising, tell me how often you see World Challenge commercials on Speed? Then there's the fact that races are only broadcast twice, and they are tape delayed for over a week, sometimes up to two weeks. Quite unacceptable for a series with the potential of WC.
There are a lot of ways WC should be advertising beyond Speed as well. With the thousands of enthusiasts on msg boards they should be taking advantage and running banner ads. I can think of some more ways they can make their ad dollars go further but you get the point.
Hopefully next season WC will receive better treatment but I felt this year was a relatively poor effort.
| deft | 11-11-2003 12:46 AM |
I don't understand why everybody hates drifting so much, it's as much a sport as anything else. There are tonnes of sports that are based on execution and style, that are still exciting and fun to watch. For example, freestyle downhill skiing, skateboard/rollerblade events, etc. I just don't see why just because, from what I've read anyway, most people on this thread are large AutoX supporters, makes this new formula drift a bad thing.
| Mopho | 11-11-2003 01:43 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JMU R1 [/i]
[B]Cost escalation in a pro series is inevitable as competition becomes more fierce but a good sanctioning body will try to mitigate unnecessary sources of cost inflation when possible. They will also recognize when the cost to run the series is significantly outrunning the advertising value of the series.
SCCA Pro needs to be aware of this with World Challenge because the escalating costs are already forcing several teams out of the series, and these are teams with top notch drivers (Foo and Harvey for instance). They need to dial back the engine rules a bit, and they need to restrict suspension to original mounting points. They also need to get rid of some other stuff like chro-moly roll cages and the like. One could argue that it'll make the cars slower yadda, yadda, but fans are not gonna stop watching the series if the cars are 2 or 3 seconds a lap slower overall but they'll certainly stop watching if only 12 cars show up for a touring race.
As far as advertising, tell me how often you see World Challenge commercials on Speed? Then there's the fact that races are only broadcast twice, and they are tape delayed for over a week, sometimes up to two weeks. Quite unacceptable for a series with the potential of WC.
There are a lot of ways WC should be advertising beyond Speed as well. With the thousands of enthusiasts on msg boards they should be taking advantage and running banner ads. I can think of some more ways they can make their ad dollars go further but you get the point.
Hopefully next season WC will receive better treatment but I felt this year was a relatively poor effort. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, there is a point where the cost outweighs the benefits.
I don't follow world challenge, mainly because I find track racing uninspiring in comparison to rally (and I don't get Speed channel), but I did spend 4 days shooting WC from behind the scenes and met many of the drivers and crews and spent much time with the SCCA people. Yes, they could change rules to lower costs, (and how do you know the SCCA is not considering making cost cutting changes) but that won't help really because those things are minor expenses when a team spends half a million on a tractor trailer and another $250k on a bus and catering staff. Those are there own choices to spend the money and generally they have found the sponsorship dollars to support that. People like Foo, it seems, have not found the money- for what ever reason (which is a shame as it seems he is a nice guy and a good driver). Also, rule changes cost money to the teams initially. Look at the WRC, the FIA tried to change the rules to lower the costs and it prompted some teams to leave. Unfortunately, it is the nature of motorsport since it became commercialized, teams will come and go. You can blame Colin Chapman for the first sponsorship deal, putting the John Player logos on the Lotus F1 car.
Speed charges the SCCA money, and lots of it, to air the shows, so there is not much left over for running ads or any other advertising. You are also placing the blame on the SCCA for things that the Speed channel has control over such as air dates and times, they would rather show NASCAR in the prime slots. You don't think the SCCA would rather air the shows live? I know people that were involved with putting together the TV package for Pro Rally and everyone was frustrated with Speed channels tactics
Did you know that running an ad in a major magazine such as say Maxim or Car and Driver costs around $127,000 for a one page ad run only once?
Running ads on message boards can really backfire as boards tend to get out of hand, and why advertise in a place where everyone is just going to criticize your efforts anyway? This thread a perfect example, I would promptly remove a Drifting banner ad after this thread. Another example: a particular rally forum; I have been told by potential sponsors and newcomers to the sport of rally that they were turned away from the sport because of the attitude on the msg board, one major sponsor said that if they had seen the forum before getting involved with rally he would have walked away.
Agreed, Drifting is not really racing, but who cares, it is entertainment! Are you competing or working in WC? If not, it is just entertainment to you, is it not? People are comparing it to ice skating, well ice skating is one of the most watched sports on TV.
The SCCA was founded on people having good times with Sports cars and that is exactly what they are doing with Drifting, having good times with sports cars and driving them in skilled manner, the way they were meant to be driven. Which is more than I can say about running a Subaru (or import sports car) at the dragstrip, these cars are meant to turn, stop and go!
In the end, all they are trying to do is broaden the appeal of the SCCA to different and younger group of people and I don't see anything wrong with that, even if I don't subscribe to it
BTW here is a link to a few of the 2500 photos I took at the WC race at Infineon raceway
[URL=http://www.morgansegal.com/speedweb/index.html]Speed World challenge photos[/URL]
[B]Cost escalation in a pro series is inevitable as competition becomes more fierce but a good sanctioning body will try to mitigate unnecessary sources of cost inflation when possible. They will also recognize when the cost to run the series is significantly outrunning the advertising value of the series.
SCCA Pro needs to be aware of this with World Challenge because the escalating costs are already forcing several teams out of the series, and these are teams with top notch drivers (Foo and Harvey for instance). They need to dial back the engine rules a bit, and they need to restrict suspension to original mounting points. They also need to get rid of some other stuff like chro-moly roll cages and the like. One could argue that it'll make the cars slower yadda, yadda, but fans are not gonna stop watching the series if the cars are 2 or 3 seconds a lap slower overall but they'll certainly stop watching if only 12 cars show up for a touring race.
As far as advertising, tell me how often you see World Challenge commercials on Speed? Then there's the fact that races are only broadcast twice, and they are tape delayed for over a week, sometimes up to two weeks. Quite unacceptable for a series with the potential of WC.
There are a lot of ways WC should be advertising beyond Speed as well. With the thousands of enthusiasts on msg boards they should be taking advantage and running banner ads. I can think of some more ways they can make their ad dollars go further but you get the point.
Hopefully next season WC will receive better treatment but I felt this year was a relatively poor effort. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, there is a point where the cost outweighs the benefits.
I don't follow world challenge, mainly because I find track racing uninspiring in comparison to rally (and I don't get Speed channel), but I did spend 4 days shooting WC from behind the scenes and met many of the drivers and crews and spent much time with the SCCA people. Yes, they could change rules to lower costs, (and how do you know the SCCA is not considering making cost cutting changes) but that won't help really because those things are minor expenses when a team spends half a million on a tractor trailer and another $250k on a bus and catering staff. Those are there own choices to spend the money and generally they have found the sponsorship dollars to support that. People like Foo, it seems, have not found the money- for what ever reason (which is a shame as it seems he is a nice guy and a good driver). Also, rule changes cost money to the teams initially. Look at the WRC, the FIA tried to change the rules to lower the costs and it prompted some teams to leave. Unfortunately, it is the nature of motorsport since it became commercialized, teams will come and go. You can blame Colin Chapman for the first sponsorship deal, putting the John Player logos on the Lotus F1 car.
Speed charges the SCCA money, and lots of it, to air the shows, so there is not much left over for running ads or any other advertising. You are also placing the blame on the SCCA for things that the Speed channel has control over such as air dates and times, they would rather show NASCAR in the prime slots. You don't think the SCCA would rather air the shows live? I know people that were involved with putting together the TV package for Pro Rally and everyone was frustrated with Speed channels tactics
Did you know that running an ad in a major magazine such as say Maxim or Car and Driver costs around $127,000 for a one page ad run only once?
Running ads on message boards can really backfire as boards tend to get out of hand, and why advertise in a place where everyone is just going to criticize your efforts anyway? This thread a perfect example, I would promptly remove a Drifting banner ad after this thread. Another example: a particular rally forum; I have been told by potential sponsors and newcomers to the sport of rally that they were turned away from the sport because of the attitude on the msg board, one major sponsor said that if they had seen the forum before getting involved with rally he would have walked away.
Agreed, Drifting is not really racing, but who cares, it is entertainment! Are you competing or working in WC? If not, it is just entertainment to you, is it not? People are comparing it to ice skating, well ice skating is one of the most watched sports on TV.
The SCCA was founded on people having good times with Sports cars and that is exactly what they are doing with Drifting, having good times with sports cars and driving them in skilled manner, the way they were meant to be driven. Which is more than I can say about running a Subaru (or import sports car) at the dragstrip, these cars are meant to turn, stop and go!
In the end, all they are trying to do is broaden the appeal of the SCCA to different and younger group of people and I don't see anything wrong with that, even if I don't subscribe to it
BTW here is a link to a few of the 2500 photos I took at the WC race at Infineon raceway
[URL=http://www.morgansegal.com/speedweb/index.html]Speed World challenge photos[/URL]
| mtb_dude | 11-11-2003 08:45 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TyrannoSullyRex [/i]
[B]SCCA = Secret Car Club of America
Here's another analogy.
Drifting=
[/B][/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol:
[B]SCCA = Secret Car Club of America
Here's another analogy.
Drifting=
[/B][/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol:
| JMU R1 | 11-11-2003 10:56 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mopho [/i]
Yes, they could change rules to lower costs, (and how do you know the SCCA is not considering making cost cutting changes) but that won't help really because those things are minor expenses when a team spends half a million on a tractor trailer and another $250k on a bus and catering staff. Those are there own choices to spend the money and generally they have found the sponsorship dollars to support that. People like Foo, it seems, have not found the money- for what ever reason (which is a shame as it seems he is a nice guy and a good driver). Also, rule changes cost money to the teams initially. Look at the WRC, the FIA tried to change the rules to lower the costs and it prompted some teams to leave. Unfortunately, it is the nature of motorsport since it became commercialized, teams will come and go. You can blame Colin Chapman for the first sponsorship deal, putting the John Player logos on the Lotus F1 car.[/QUOTE]
Yeah some of the teams running around with Semis and daily banquets could certainly cut their own costs significantly. But the big costs I was talking about include: frequent engine rebuilds (the Mazda engines for instance, are rebuilt several times a year), MoTEC, aerodynamic testing, the aforementioned chro-moly cages, and simply being at the track for a whole week before the race because of the way the schedule is done. Some of these problems are inherently easier to solve than others, and you're right SCCA Pro may be making moves right now, so I guess the jury's out.
[quote]Speed charges the SCCA money, and lots of it, to air the shows, so there is not much left over for running ads or any other advertising. You are also placing the blame on the SCCA for things that the Speed channel has control over such as air dates and times, they would rather show NASCAR in the prime slots. You don't think the SCCA would rather air the shows live? I know people that were involved with putting together the TV package for Pro Rally and everyone was frustrated with Speed channels tactics[/quote]
I suppose I should've directed more of my ire at Speed, because I am certainly angree with them on this point. We'll see what happens in 04.
[quote]Did you know that running an ad in a major magazine such as say Maxim or Car and Driver costs around $127,000 for a one page ad run only once?[/quote]
SCCA Pro doesn't necessarily need to do mag print ads, they can also use point of sale print stuff and radio for local advertising to get more fans to the track. I imagine this will be even easier now that they're official partners with ALMS.
[QUOTE]Running ads on message boards can really backfire as boards tend to get out of hand, and why advertise in a place where everyone is just going to criticize your efforts anyway? This thread a perfect example, I would promptly remove a Drifting banner ad after this thread. Another example: a particular rally forum; I have been told by potential sponsors and newcomers to the sport of rally that they were turned away from the sport because of the attitude on the msg board, one major sponsor said that if they had seen the forum before getting involved with rally he would have walked away. [/QUOTE]
I have actually seen something like this first hand, although not as the result of banner ads. In Honda Challenge the title sponsors were thoroughly insulted by bickering over window banners on honda-tech.com and I think it was a factor in them withdrawing their support for next season.
What I see in that situation is that a sponsor should not turn tail just because there are a few loud-mouthed morons on the Internet. While sponsorship may be somewhat of a favor in some cases, in most cases the sponsor is receiving advertising and press for their money. Sure some people may not like it, but thats true of any advertising. For WC spending a few hundred dollars a month for banner ads is certainly a drop in the bucket and is certainly better than nothing, although admittedly they may not have much money to spend.
[quote]Agreed, Drifting is not really racing, but who cares, it is entertainment! Are you competing or working in WC? If not, it is just entertainment to you, is it not? People are comparing it to ice skating, well ice skating is one of the most watched sports on TV.
The SCCA was founded on people having good times with Sports cars and that is exactly what they are doing with Drifting, having good times with sports cars and driving them in skilled manner, the way they were meant to be driven. Which is more than I can say about running a Subaru (or import sports car) at the dragstrip, these cars are meant to turn, stop and go!
In the end, all they are trying to do is broaden the appeal of the SCCA to different and younger group of people and I don't see anything wrong with that, even if I don't subscribe to it
[/QUOTE]
I don't really have a problem with drift either, I just don't like it when an organization ignores its current problems to take on new ones. Kind of akin to the US trying to solve the World's problems before attempting to solve their own. In this case I suppose that they have to seize the opportunity while its still ripe so maybe its not such a bad thing after all.
Yes, they could change rules to lower costs, (and how do you know the SCCA is not considering making cost cutting changes) but that won't help really because those things are minor expenses when a team spends half a million on a tractor trailer and another $250k on a bus and catering staff. Those are there own choices to spend the money and generally they have found the sponsorship dollars to support that. People like Foo, it seems, have not found the money- for what ever reason (which is a shame as it seems he is a nice guy and a good driver). Also, rule changes cost money to the teams initially. Look at the WRC, the FIA tried to change the rules to lower the costs and it prompted some teams to leave. Unfortunately, it is the nature of motorsport since it became commercialized, teams will come and go. You can blame Colin Chapman for the first sponsorship deal, putting the John Player logos on the Lotus F1 car.[/QUOTE]
Yeah some of the teams running around with Semis and daily banquets could certainly cut their own costs significantly. But the big costs I was talking about include: frequent engine rebuilds (the Mazda engines for instance, are rebuilt several times a year), MoTEC, aerodynamic testing, the aforementioned chro-moly cages, and simply being at the track for a whole week before the race because of the way the schedule is done. Some of these problems are inherently easier to solve than others, and you're right SCCA Pro may be making moves right now, so I guess the jury's out.
[quote]Speed charges the SCCA money, and lots of it, to air the shows, so there is not much left over for running ads or any other advertising. You are also placing the blame on the SCCA for things that the Speed channel has control over such as air dates and times, they would rather show NASCAR in the prime slots. You don't think the SCCA would rather air the shows live? I know people that were involved with putting together the TV package for Pro Rally and everyone was frustrated with Speed channels tactics[/quote]
I suppose I should've directed more of my ire at Speed, because I am certainly angree with them on this point. We'll see what happens in 04.
[quote]Did you know that running an ad in a major magazine such as say Maxim or Car and Driver costs around $127,000 for a one page ad run only once?[/quote]
SCCA Pro doesn't necessarily need to do mag print ads, they can also use point of sale print stuff and radio for local advertising to get more fans to the track. I imagine this will be even easier now that they're official partners with ALMS.
[QUOTE]Running ads on message boards can really backfire as boards tend to get out of hand, and why advertise in a place where everyone is just going to criticize your efforts anyway? This thread a perfect example, I would promptly remove a Drifting banner ad after this thread. Another example: a particular rally forum; I have been told by potential sponsors and newcomers to the sport of rally that they were turned away from the sport because of the attitude on the msg board, one major sponsor said that if they had seen the forum before getting involved with rally he would have walked away. [/QUOTE]
I have actually seen something like this first hand, although not as the result of banner ads. In Honda Challenge the title sponsors were thoroughly insulted by bickering over window banners on honda-tech.com and I think it was a factor in them withdrawing their support for next season.
What I see in that situation is that a sponsor should not turn tail just because there are a few loud-mouthed morons on the Internet. While sponsorship may be somewhat of a favor in some cases, in most cases the sponsor is receiving advertising and press for their money. Sure some people may not like it, but thats true of any advertising. For WC spending a few hundred dollars a month for banner ads is certainly a drop in the bucket and is certainly better than nothing, although admittedly they may not have much money to spend.
[quote]Agreed, Drifting is not really racing, but who cares, it is entertainment! Are you competing or working in WC? If not, it is just entertainment to you, is it not? People are comparing it to ice skating, well ice skating is one of the most watched sports on TV.
The SCCA was founded on people having good times with Sports cars and that is exactly what they are doing with Drifting, having good times with sports cars and driving them in skilled manner, the way they were meant to be driven. Which is more than I can say about running a Subaru (or import sports car) at the dragstrip, these cars are meant to turn, stop and go!
In the end, all they are trying to do is broaden the appeal of the SCCA to different and younger group of people and I don't see anything wrong with that, even if I don't subscribe to it
[/QUOTE]
I don't really have a problem with drift either, I just don't like it when an organization ignores its current problems to take on new ones. Kind of akin to the US trying to solve the World's problems before attempting to solve their own. In this case I suppose that they have to seize the opportunity while its still ripe so maybe its not such a bad thing after all.
| Dolphin Overton | 11-12-2003 05:11 PM |
wow, we need a sarcasm icon on this board. of course i know what scca is. all i was saying is that you guys are acting like a bunch of pissed off country club members that don't want a certain group of people joining their club.
i have never seen people pissed off about something so trivial. the scca isn't that great of an organization IMO anyway.
if it's fun that's all that matters. it's fun to drift, do doughnuts, abuse your car, ect. so what's the problem? not nredy enough for you? a lot of people that road race would say that auto-x is just as silly as drifting. but it's fun so who cares. have a beer and settle down.
i have never seen people pissed off about something so trivial. the scca isn't that great of an organization IMO anyway.
if it's fun that's all that matters. it's fun to drift, do doughnuts, abuse your car, ect. so what's the problem? not nredy enough for you? a lot of people that road race would say that auto-x is just as silly as drifting. but it's fun so who cares. have a beer and settle down.
| jmott | 11-12-2003 05:32 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Bonzo [/i]
[B]:huh: a sad day for sports car enthusiasts and the scca [/B][/QUOTE]
why?
let people have fun in any way they choose.
I am a very serious autocrosser, and Ive done a drift event. it was fun.
[B]:huh: a sad day for sports car enthusiasts and the scca [/B][/QUOTE]
why?
let people have fun in any way they choose.
I am a very serious autocrosser, and Ive done a drift event. it was fun.
| jmott | 11-12-2003 05:35 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by deft [/i]
[B]I don't understand why everybody hates drifting so much, it's as much a sport as anything else. There are tonnes of sports that are based on execution and style, that are still exciting and fun to watch. For example, freestyle downhill skiing, skateboard/rollerblade events, etc. I just don't see why just because, from what I've read anyway, most people on this thread are large AutoX supporters, makes this new formula drift a bad thing. [/B][/QUOTE]
A lot of people contend that anything without an objective winner is not a sport.
but, regardless of wether or not its a sport, its fun, and entertaining to watch for a lot of people. so why not?
[B]I don't understand why everybody hates drifting so much, it's as much a sport as anything else. There are tonnes of sports that are based on execution and style, that are still exciting and fun to watch. For example, freestyle downhill skiing, skateboard/rollerblade events, etc. I just don't see why just because, from what I've read anyway, most people on this thread are large AutoX supporters, makes this new formula drift a bad thing. [/B][/QUOTE]
A lot of people contend that anything without an objective winner is not a sport.
but, regardless of wether or not its a sport, its fun, and entertaining to watch for a lot of people. so why not?
| mtb_dude | 11-12-2003 07:35 PM |
So why not call it FunDrift instead of FormulaDrift?
| TYWRAP | 11-12-2003 11:12 PM |
I've been to 3 drifiting events in the US. I've seen the full spectrum of entrants (from a very skilled road racer to a A-hole in a (fill in the blank)).
I think it's a great idea overall. It's another form of motorsport that a whole different crowd can enjoy that might not be into the standard drag, autoX, or road course.
Comparing any of these to each other is impossible. Anyone can say that's better than the other. It's the same reason drag guys call the SCCA , Slow Cars Can't Accelerate and why SCCA road course people think that most drag racers have no skill in piloting a car in the quarter.AutoX is for wusses that don't go over 30mph in a "no chance of danger" parking lot and Drifiting is for race poser that are no skill fast a furious boyz.:) All have there selling points and draw backs.
As for judging drift events is scored based on this criteria ( most of the time like this:)
1.Angle the car is pitched into a turn and further transition to the next pitch.
2.Speed that the car is traveling through and in the turn(I' watched a pro from japan drift into a turn at 90mph with utter control)The higher the speed the higher the score
3.The overall control the driver has
4.Style (this is the most subjective) it ranges from how the driver open the door mid drift to the type and overall apperance of the car, also the closer to a object like a tire wall the car can get on purpose the higher the point.
Just some FYI
-Jon
I think it's a great idea overall. It's another form of motorsport that a whole different crowd can enjoy that might not be into the standard drag, autoX, or road course.
Comparing any of these to each other is impossible. Anyone can say that's better than the other. It's the same reason drag guys call the SCCA , Slow Cars Can't Accelerate and why SCCA road course people think that most drag racers have no skill in piloting a car in the quarter.AutoX is for wusses that don't go over 30mph in a "no chance of danger" parking lot and Drifiting is for race poser that are no skill fast a furious boyz.:) All have there selling points and draw backs.
As for judging drift events is scored based on this criteria ( most of the time like this:)
1.Angle the car is pitched into a turn and further transition to the next pitch.
2.Speed that the car is traveling through and in the turn(I' watched a pro from japan drift into a turn at 90mph with utter control)The higher the speed the higher the score
3.The overall control the driver has
4.Style (this is the most subjective) it ranges from how the driver open the door mid drift to the type and overall apperance of the car, also the closer to a object like a tire wall the car can get on purpose the higher the point.
Just some FYI
-Jon
| Scoobie Doogie | 11-13-2003 02:04 AM |
Oh brother. The silliness never ceases. SCCA has 1 main objective. MEMBERSHIP. Drifting is VERY POPULAR with the younger crowd. Hmmm...where are we going to get new members since we've managed to take Autocross into a rules laden, too many class having, hair splitting, archaic rules bound "for fun hobby" of a sport. Hey, lets start a drifting series and make more $$ from that. Then we can start a whole new rule book that we can publish monthly bitching and hair splitting in. Woohooo.
Obviously you can tell I think the SCCA is a bit bloated with rules, especially for a "hobby sport". They want members. Drifting events=exposure=new members. Drifting can be televised and sponsors like it because it is a fixed location competition that they can put up huge advertising banners to be seen by all. It's the new cash cow. See, very simple.
Dave
Obviously you can tell I think the SCCA is a bit bloated with rules, especially for a "hobby sport". They want members. Drifting events=exposure=new members. Drifting can be televised and sponsors like it because it is a fixed location competition that they can put up huge advertising banners to be seen by all. It's the new cash cow. See, very simple.
Dave
| sakeninja | 11-14-2003 09:35 PM |
I think it's great SCCA is jumping on the drift bandwagon. Dift is closely related to rally, auto-x, and touge. I can see how it's popularity can be equated to ESPN's X-games in it's style more than to figure skating. It was born on the streets, on rally courses, by talented drivers who want to see how far they can take car control. But it's new to most people here, so many view it like NASCAR fans view rally or autox.
In my opinion, drifting is to racing as the Blue Angels are to airlines.
[url]http://www.drifting.com[/url]
In my opinion, drifting is to racing as the Blue Angels are to airlines.
[url]http://www.drifting.com[/url]
| suberboy | 11-15-2003 12:18 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Dolphin Overton [/i]
[B]SCCA... is that a country club or something? sounds like it after reading these posts. [/B][/QUOTE] :lol:
oh and well put Mopho.
[B]SCCA... is that a country club or something? sounds like it after reading these posts. [/B][/QUOTE] :lol:
oh and well put Mopho.
| jonnyslick | 11-17-2003 03:17 PM |
yeah i'm a drifter and also an avid WRX fan and owner. personally i love drifting and think that if the SCCA gets involved they will make the sport more professional and safer for everyone. IMO drifting is like WRC except on asphalt tracks...it's about car control and driver skill as well as overall car setup and design.
i say yes to the SCCA drifting and i'm sorry to all of you that are too close minded to see other-wise.
i say yes to the SCCA drifting and i'm sorry to all of you that are too close minded to see other-wise.
| dwx | 11-17-2003 03:32 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jonnyslick [/i]
[B]yeah i'm a drifter and also an avid WRX fan and owner. personally i love drifting and think that if the SCCA gets involved they will make the sport more professional and safer for everyone. IMO drifting is like WRC except on asphalt tracks...it's about car control and driver skill as well as overall car setup and design.
i say yes to the SCCA drifting and i'm sorry to all of you that are too close minded to see other-wise. [/B][/QUOTE]
Drifting is absolutely nothing like WRC or performance rally in general. They don't "drift" on gravel for the sake of doing it, they do it because it's the fastest way around that corner.
[B]yeah i'm a drifter and also an avid WRX fan and owner. personally i love drifting and think that if the SCCA gets involved they will make the sport more professional and safer for everyone. IMO drifting is like WRC except on asphalt tracks...it's about car control and driver skill as well as overall car setup and design.
i say yes to the SCCA drifting and i'm sorry to all of you that are too close minded to see other-wise. [/B][/QUOTE]
Drifting is absolutely nothing like WRC or performance rally in general. They don't "drift" on gravel for the sake of doing it, they do it because it's the fastest way around that corner.
| TyrannoSullyRex | 11-17-2003 03:40 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dwx [/i]
[B]Drifting is absolutely nothing like WRC or performance rally in general. They don't "drift" on gravel for the sake of doing it, they do it because it's the fastest way around that corner. [/B][/QUOTE]
I thought it was done to be able to tighten the line quickly.
[B]Drifting is absolutely nothing like WRC or performance rally in general. They don't "drift" on gravel for the sake of doing it, they do it because it's the fastest way around that corner. [/B][/QUOTE]
I thought it was done to be able to tighten the line quickly.
| hachiroku-fc3s | 11-17-2003 05:05 PM |
[QUOTE][B]Drifting is absolutely nothing like WRC or performance rally in general. They don't "drift" on gravel for the sake of doing it, they do it because it's the fastest way around that corner. [/B][/QUOTE]
Not true. Drifting originated as the man said, in Japan as a racing technique. It allowed Kunimitsu Takahashi to win the Japanese championship over non drifters. Seems like that would take a drop it lap times. Not all drifting takes place in a parking lot. Mainly in Japan, there are togue battles, where it is set up like a race, but with no passing, the underpowered car gets in the back, and if it keeps up it wins, doesnt and it doesn't. Humm...a slower car keeping up, seems like that would take some skill too. Yes, drifting is not judged on style but on technique, namely angles. Are you saying that in Autocross you dont take the angle of entry and exit into consideration? Well, I don't mean to flame but I hate to see somthing that requires so much skill being dissed by ppl who it seems would appreciate something that if nothing else, weeds out posers
Not true. Drifting originated as the man said, in Japan as a racing technique. It allowed Kunimitsu Takahashi to win the Japanese championship over non drifters. Seems like that would take a drop it lap times. Not all drifting takes place in a parking lot. Mainly in Japan, there are togue battles, where it is set up like a race, but with no passing, the underpowered car gets in the back, and if it keeps up it wins, doesnt and it doesn't. Humm...a slower car keeping up, seems like that would take some skill too. Yes, drifting is not judged on style but on technique, namely angles. Are you saying that in Autocross you dont take the angle of entry and exit into consideration? Well, I don't mean to flame but I hate to see somthing that requires so much skill being dissed by ppl who it seems would appreciate something that if nothing else, weeds out posers
| dwx | 11-17-2003 05:28 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by hachiroku-fc3s [/i]
[B]Not true. Drifting originated as the man said, in Japan as a racing technique. It allowed Kunimitsu Takahashi to win the Japanese championship over non drifters. Seems like that would take a drop it lap times. Not all drifting takes place in a parking lot. Mainly in Japan, there are togue battles, where it is set up like a race, but with no passing, the underpowered car gets in the back, and if it keeps up it wins, doesnt and it doesn't. Humm...a slower car keeping up, seems like that would take some skill too. Yes, drifting is not judged on style but on technique, namely angles. Are you saying that in Autocross you dont take the angle of entry and exit into consideration? Well, I don't mean to flame but I hate to see somthing that requires so much skill being dissed by ppl who it seems would appreciate something that if nothing else, weeds out posers [/B][/QUOTE]
That's great and all, but that's not what the SCCA is doing in the US and "drifting" as a sport has nothing to do with "racing". If someone drifts a corner to win at JGTCC or whatever, that's not the sport of "drifting" that's the sport of "touring car racing".
Most of what you said is applicable and I would applaud that but what you are talking about isn't the sport of drifting, it's using drifting in other motorsports activities. What does a togue battle or whatever have to do with anything? Do both cars drift through the entire race?
[B]Not true. Drifting originated as the man said, in Japan as a racing technique. It allowed Kunimitsu Takahashi to win the Japanese championship over non drifters. Seems like that would take a drop it lap times. Not all drifting takes place in a parking lot. Mainly in Japan, there are togue battles, where it is set up like a race, but with no passing, the underpowered car gets in the back, and if it keeps up it wins, doesnt and it doesn't. Humm...a slower car keeping up, seems like that would take some skill too. Yes, drifting is not judged on style but on technique, namely angles. Are you saying that in Autocross you dont take the angle of entry and exit into consideration? Well, I don't mean to flame but I hate to see somthing that requires so much skill being dissed by ppl who it seems would appreciate something that if nothing else, weeds out posers [/B][/QUOTE]
That's great and all, but that's not what the SCCA is doing in the US and "drifting" as a sport has nothing to do with "racing". If someone drifts a corner to win at JGTCC or whatever, that's not the sport of "drifting" that's the sport of "touring car racing".
Most of what you said is applicable and I would applaud that but what you are talking about isn't the sport of drifting, it's using drifting in other motorsports activities. What does a togue battle or whatever have to do with anything? Do both cars drift through the entire race?
| Achilles38WRX | 11-17-2003 05:54 PM |
i dont really see a problem with this. like someone said earlier, this could bring more people in as scca members who wouldn't have thought of joining before.
heck, if there was an event around my area i'd be tempted to buy that $500 camaro i drive past on my way home from work! :lol:
heck, if there was an event around my area i'd be tempted to buy that $500 camaro i drive past on my way home from work! :lol:
| Mopho | 11-17-2003 06:04 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dwx [/i]
[B]That's great and all, but that's not what the SCCA is doing in the US and "drifting" as a sport has nothing to do with "racing". If someone drifts a corner to win at JGTCC or whatever, that's not the sport of "drifting" that's the sport of "touring car racing".
Most of what you said is applicable and I would applaud that but what you are talking about isn't the sport of drifting, it's using drifting in other motorsports activities. What does a togue battle or whatever have to do with anything? Do both cars drift through the entire race? [/B][/QUOTE]
Where does it say that the SCCA has to be only about racing?
[B]That's great and all, but that's not what the SCCA is doing in the US and "drifting" as a sport has nothing to do with "racing". If someone drifts a corner to win at JGTCC or whatever, that's not the sport of "drifting" that's the sport of "touring car racing".
Most of what you said is applicable and I would applaud that but what you are talking about isn't the sport of drifting, it's using drifting in other motorsports activities. What does a togue battle or whatever have to do with anything? Do both cars drift through the entire race? [/B][/QUOTE]
Where does it say that the SCCA has to be only about racing?
| dwx | 11-17-2003 07:18 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mopho [/i]
[B]Where does it say that the SCCA has to be only about racing? [/B][/QUOTE]
Where does it say I said that? That was in response to comparing WRC to the sport of "drifting", it had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SCCA. The SCCA could hold kite flying competitions for all I care.
[B]Where does it say that the SCCA has to be only about racing? [/B][/QUOTE]
Where does it say I said that? That was in response to comparing WRC to the sport of "drifting", it had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SCCA. The SCCA could hold kite flying competitions for all I care.
| hillman | 11-17-2003 07:54 PM |
[quote]
like someone said earlier, this could bring more people in as scca members who wouldn't have thought of joining before.
[/quote]
So could many other car activities; drag racing, or dirt circle tracks, or demolition derbies. Growing membership isn't the sole goal. This is a club, not a business. If an activity is mainly interesting to people who are NOT in the club, than it should be asked why it is being undertaken.
Speaking of which, adding professional events through Pro is unlikely to generate any significant membership increase without lower-level events to support it. How many driftkids are going to spring for a $75 membership to a club just because a wholly-owned subsidiary of that club sanctions a few events?
[quote]
It allowed Kunimitsu Takahashi to win the Japanese championship over non drifters.
[/quote]
If he was intentionally getting the car sideways at the expense of going forwards and he still won, he would've won by more without wasting that time. If he wasn't doing that, by what definition was he 'drifting'?
Thousands of race car drivers drive close enough to the limit that their car drifts out of corners... but that's not 'drifting'.
[quote]
and if it keeps up it wins, doesnt and it doesn't. Humm...a slower car keeping up, seems like that would take some skill too.
[/quote]
Not if the faster car is wasting time by hanging-out sideways... which is the whole point.
like someone said earlier, this could bring more people in as scca members who wouldn't have thought of joining before.
[/quote]
So could many other car activities; drag racing, or dirt circle tracks, or demolition derbies. Growing membership isn't the sole goal. This is a club, not a business. If an activity is mainly interesting to people who are NOT in the club, than it should be asked why it is being undertaken.
Speaking of which, adding professional events through Pro is unlikely to generate any significant membership increase without lower-level events to support it. How many driftkids are going to spring for a $75 membership to a club just because a wholly-owned subsidiary of that club sanctions a few events?
[quote]
It allowed Kunimitsu Takahashi to win the Japanese championship over non drifters.
[/quote]
If he was intentionally getting the car sideways at the expense of going forwards and he still won, he would've won by more without wasting that time. If he wasn't doing that, by what definition was he 'drifting'?
Thousands of race car drivers drive close enough to the limit that their car drifts out of corners... but that's not 'drifting'.
[quote]
and if it keeps up it wins, doesnt and it doesn't. Humm...a slower car keeping up, seems like that would take some skill too.
[/quote]
Not if the faster car is wasting time by hanging-out sideways... which is the whole point.
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