| Paisan | 04-18-2004 05:58 PM |
Gaging Interest: AWD Challenge (similar to Honda Challenge)
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Hey guys, I'm trying to gauge interest in a Honda East Coast Challenge-like Road Racing Series aimed squarely at AWD ONLY cars. This would be for all, AWD vehicles and would be run primarily in the NE and maybe spread to other areas as well. A bunch of the TeamIAC.com folks were shooting the breeze over dinner and thought up the idea, any feedback would be great.
Cars we would like to pull in and thus make it "popular" would include but not be limited to:
DSMs
Evos
Subies
Audis
Mazda 323
Volvos
Celica All-tracks
BMW AWDs
Thanks and looking forward to the input.
-mike
Cars we would like to pull in and thus make it "popular" would include but not be limited to:
DSMs
Evos
Subies
Audis
Mazda 323
Volvos
Celica All-tracks
BMW AWDs
Thanks and looking forward to the input.
-mike
| trhoppe | 04-18-2004 08:20 PM |
I think you would have one helluva time getting the classes right, but if a 2.5RS could be competitive in one, I would be there....
What kind of class structure were you considering?
A1 - Evo, STi, S4
A2 - WRX, DSM, A4, Celica, 323ix
A3 - 2.5RS, Old Audis, Volvos
-Tom
What kind of class structure were you considering?
A1 - Evo, STi, S4
A2 - WRX, DSM, A4, Celica, 323ix
A3 - 2.5RS, Old Audis, Volvos
-Tom
| Paisan | 04-18-2004 08:23 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe [/i]
[B]I think you would have one helluva time getting the classes right, but if a 2.5RS could be competitive in one, I would be there....
What kind of class structure were you considering?
A1 - Evo, STi, S4
A2 - WRX, DSM, A4, Celica, 323ix
A3 - 2.5RS, Old Audis, Volvos
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Haven't thought about classing although it will definitely be a challenge, we want to see how much interest there is before we class em. 2.5RS/L/Legacy etc will DEFINITELY have classes available especially since you can get em cheap, and for a race-car you want cheap. I know Honda Challenge uses H1-H5 so we'd probably do 5 classes, just on a very broad level right now.
-mike
[B]I think you would have one helluva time getting the classes right, but if a 2.5RS could be competitive in one, I would be there....
What kind of class structure were you considering?
A1 - Evo, STi, S4
A2 - WRX, DSM, A4, Celica, 323ix
A3 - 2.5RS, Old Audis, Volvos
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Haven't thought about classing although it will definitely be a challenge, we want to see how much interest there is before we class em. 2.5RS/L/Legacy etc will DEFINITELY have classes available especially since you can get em cheap, and for a race-car you want cheap. I know Honda Challenge uses H1-H5 so we'd probably do 5 classes, just on a very broad level right now.
-mike
| ellisnc | 04-18-2004 09:15 PM |
You'd definately have to limit the number of mods carefully because a DSM is pretty easy to build a TON of power into
It seems to me part of the problem with parity in the series might be the way the different cars respond to mods such as intakes for example. WRX doesn't really benefit all that much from one. Not like HC where all the cars in the same classes will basically respond similarly to the mods.
It seems to me part of the problem with parity in the series might be the way the different cars respond to mods such as intakes for example. WRX doesn't really benefit all that much from one. Not like HC where all the cars in the same classes will basically respond similarly to the mods.
| Paisan | 04-19-2004 12:38 PM |
You are correct, but the DSMs are pretty heavy so that is a factor as well.
-mike
-mike
| sdecker | 04-20-2004 07:36 AM |
I'm very interested, but I'm afraid I will have to wait until the series migrates south. I know several other track whores down here as well who would certainly be down for it.
Great idea!
Scott
Great idea!
Scott
| turboICE | 04-20-2004 02:09 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe [/i]
[B]What kind of class structure were you considering?
A1 - Evo, STi, S4
A2 - WRX, DSM, A4, Celica, 323ix
A3 - 2.5RS, Old Audis, Volvos
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
I guess you might be illustrating how difficult classing is.
I hope you meant 330xi with 220hp in the A2, because at 170hp the 323xi would be more appropriate in the A3.
[B]What kind of class structure were you considering?
A1 - Evo, STi, S4
A2 - WRX, DSM, A4, Celica, 323ix
A3 - 2.5RS, Old Audis, Volvos
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
I guess you might be illustrating how difficult classing is.
I hope you meant 330xi with 220hp in the A2, because at 170hp the 323xi would be more appropriate in the A3.
| 8Complex | 04-20-2004 02:23 PM |
To what level of build are you thinking of classing cars? Personally, I'd rather see a country-wide circuit of JGTC-like action. Enough of the American companies would sponsor built cars, and I'm sure with the import following these days, there would be people willing to build/race 500hp beasts in these classes as well.
| Paisan | 04-20-2004 04:38 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 8Complex [/i]
[B]To what level of build are you thinking of classing cars? Personally, I'd rather see a country-wide circuit of JGTC-like action. Enough of the American companies would sponsor built cars, and I'm sure with the import following these days, there would be people willing to build/race 500hp beasts in these classes as well. [/B][/QUOTE]
Well what i'm proposing is a grassroots racing effort. IE: I do HPDE now, and want to get into racing, except that an AWD car is A) not classes B) not competative so I'm trying to organize a group of folks who would want to race similar cars (AWD) and haves some fun.
-mike
[B]To what level of build are you thinking of classing cars? Personally, I'd rather see a country-wide circuit of JGTC-like action. Enough of the American companies would sponsor built cars, and I'm sure with the import following these days, there would be people willing to build/race 500hp beasts in these classes as well. [/B][/QUOTE]
Well what i'm proposing is a grassroots racing effort. IE: I do HPDE now, and want to get into racing, except that an AWD car is A) not classes B) not competative so I'm trying to organize a group of folks who would want to race similar cars (AWD) and haves some fun.
-mike
| Paisan | 04-20-2004 04:40 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by turboICE [/i]
[B]I guess you might be illustrating how difficult classing is.
I hope you meant 330xi with 220hp in the A2, because at 170hp the 323xi would be more appropriate in the A3. [/B][/QUOTE]
This is neither here nor there.... We are still very far from classing cars at this point. We can split hairs later on.
-mike
[B]I guess you might be illustrating how difficult classing is.
I hope you meant 330xi with 220hp in the A2, because at 170hp the 323xi would be more appropriate in the A3. [/B][/QUOTE]
This is neither here nor there.... We are still very far from classing cars at this point. We can split hairs later on.
-mike
| sdecker | 04-20-2004 10:35 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Paisan [/i]
[B]Well what i'm proposing is a grassroots racing effort. IE: I do HPDE now, and want to get into racing, except that an AWD car is A) not classes B) not competative so I'm trying to organize a group of folks who would want to race similar cars (AWD) and haves some fun.
-mike [/B][/QUOTE]
Perfect -- I'm in. I live right next door to Road Atlanta and know some people who may be able to give an assist, when/if you decide to do this.
Keep the thread updated.
Scott
EDIT: grap on my whoreable grammer
[B]Well what i'm proposing is a grassroots racing effort. IE: I do HPDE now, and want to get into racing, except that an AWD car is A) not classes B) not competative so I'm trying to organize a group of folks who would want to race similar cars (AWD) and haves some fun.
-mike [/B][/QUOTE]
Perfect -- I'm in. I live right next door to Road Atlanta and know some people who may be able to give an assist, when/if you decide to do this.
Keep the thread updated.
Scott
EDIT: grap on my whoreable grammer
| AZP Installs | 04-20-2004 10:42 PM |
Will do! Thanks for the support. We are gonna take it slow and see what kind of interest there is in this, have to hitup some of the DSM and Audi boards and see if they'd be interested.
-mike
-mike
| Penguinking | 04-21-2004 02:41 AM |
hmm....thinking porsche turbo and carrera C4S won't be included in this series...even the earlier model C4's?
| GQ | 04-21-2004 07:41 AM |
Count me in if this happens. I would probably only compete at Summit Point initially though.
| Warp3 | 04-21-2004 10:40 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Penguinking [/i]
[B]hmm....thinking porsche turbo and carrera C4S won't be included in this series...even the earlier model C4's? [/B][/QUOTE]
don't forget the Diablo VT... :lol:
Shane
[B]hmm....thinking porsche turbo and carrera C4S won't be included in this series...even the earlier model C4's? [/B][/QUOTE]
don't forget the Diablo VT... :lol:
Shane
| Paisan | 04-21-2004 11:08 AM |
Those guys would probably run in the "unlimited" class, besides I haven't seen a diablo in full safety gear yet.
-mike
-mike
| Watkinsm3 | 04-21-2004 12:00 PM |
Probably won't be involved as much as I want to... I can barely afford a track car (my integra) and my solo II car (my STi) right now. It'll be about five years till the STi is paid off so no track racing for it until that time.
-Matt
-Matt
| jbrennen | 04-21-2004 04:48 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Penguinking [/i]
[B]hmm....thinking porsche turbo and carrera C4S won't be included in this series...even the earlier model C4's? [/B][/QUOTE]
IMHO, the non-turbo Carrera 4 could be in the same class with the Evo and STi. It's got a little better power-to-weight ratio, but the Porsche is a lot harder to drive at the limit. Allow some basic modifications and the "rally cars" can easily match the Porsche's power-to-weight ratio.
The turbo AWD Porsches should be in a class by themselves...
As for the Diablo, note that the serious race-intended Diablos are RWD -- the Diablos GT, GT-R, and SV. Not that I've ever seen one of them in person. :o
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who has the balls to bring a Diablo VT out to the track and drive it hard can race against me any day. :cool:
[B]hmm....thinking porsche turbo and carrera C4S won't be included in this series...even the earlier model C4's? [/B][/QUOTE]
IMHO, the non-turbo Carrera 4 could be in the same class with the Evo and STi. It's got a little better power-to-weight ratio, but the Porsche is a lot harder to drive at the limit. Allow some basic modifications and the "rally cars" can easily match the Porsche's power-to-weight ratio.
The turbo AWD Porsches should be in a class by themselves...
As for the Diablo, note that the serious race-intended Diablos are RWD -- the Diablos GT, GT-R, and SV. Not that I've ever seen one of them in person. :o
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who has the balls to bring a Diablo VT out to the track and drive it hard can race against me any day. :cool:
| Paisan | 04-21-2004 04:52 PM |
Great input guys, let's keep the ball rolling on this. From the folks I've spoken to it seems we may need to have a "private" series where we run in small-bore class and award prizes among ourselves til we get enough interest in a full-fledge series.
-mike
-mike
| trojan9x | 04-22-2004 09:04 AM |
What would the sanctioning body be? NASA? SCCA? or would this be something totally new?
Insurance, tracks, is this only going to be in the North East for now and then broaden out to other regions?
How affordable is it compared to other track events?
Do you have any sort of Rules that you are going to start off with (such as Honda Challenge rules tweaked for this series?)
Are these too specific right now?
Insurance, tracks, is this only going to be in the North East for now and then broaden out to other regions?
How affordable is it compared to other track events?
Do you have any sort of Rules that you are going to start off with (such as Honda Challenge rules tweaked for this series?)
Are these too specific right now?
| elgorey | 04-22-2004 10:05 AM |
I had a similar idea for an all Subaru road racing series and made the proposal to the forum about 6 mos ago.
the thread is here
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=431383[/url]
some very good info and feedback in that thread.
Personally I like the idea of an all Subaru series more than an all AWD series (which is a bit contrived) especially since you reference Honda-Challenge as inspiration.
The comraderie and passion among a single make is important IMO.
the thread is here
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=431383[/url]
some very good info and feedback in that thread.
Personally I like the idea of an all Subaru series more than an all AWD series (which is a bit contrived) especially since you reference Honda-Challenge as inspiration.
The comraderie and passion among a single make is important IMO.
| sdecker | 04-22-2004 10:34 AM |
Could we just petition NASA for a single-make series, or will they laugh at us like the SCCA would? Honda Challenge is very successful for NASA, but of course there aren't as many Subarus...
This might work for either a Subaru-only or the aforementioned AWD-only. Just a thought.
There's also a small private group of guys down here in the Southeast. I can't quite remember their names right now. I thought it was 'Car Guys' but they look like HPDE only, not actual racing.
I spoke at length with one of the principals while at Road Atlanta a year or so ago. They seemed to be very much 'run what ya brung' oriented, self-policed, etc.
Anybody know who these guys are? Damn, I'm getting old. My memory is failing me. :(
Scott
This might work for either a Subaru-only or the aforementioned AWD-only. Just a thought.
There's also a small private group of guys down here in the Southeast. I can't quite remember their names right now. I thought it was 'Car Guys' but they look like HPDE only, not actual racing.
I spoke at length with one of the principals while at Road Atlanta a year or so ago. They seemed to be very much 'run what ya brung' oriented, self-policed, etc.
Anybody know who these guys are? Damn, I'm getting old. My memory is failing me. :(
Scott
| zzyzx | 04-22-2004 12:13 PM |
You might want to take a poll. My guess is right now that none of the posters here actually road race. In fact, I can think of less than a dozen here on NASIOC that road race. Autocrossing, track events and the like simply don't compare cost or risk wise to road racing.
My point is that if you actually make the jump to full-fledged road roacing, you'll have to make some hard decisions. Many of these will revolve around cost. Road racing a Subaru costs way more money than most other cars. Honda Challenge works because they're cheap to buy and maintain. Not to mention you can easily buy a race-prepped car. Converting your Subaru into a race car is expensive and, if your new to road racing, IMO a waste of money. Go do something smart, like run in Spec Miata or another entry level class. Seat time costs money, why pay a premium?
Now, that said, I did the dumb thing and road race my Impreza. I would love nothing more than to see a series dedicated to what I do. However, I just don't see that we'd ever get enough participation. Cost, IMO, being the biggest factor.
- Steve
My point is that if you actually make the jump to full-fledged road roacing, you'll have to make some hard decisions. Many of these will revolve around cost. Road racing a Subaru costs way more money than most other cars. Honda Challenge works because they're cheap to buy and maintain. Not to mention you can easily buy a race-prepped car. Converting your Subaru into a race car is expensive and, if your new to road racing, IMO a waste of money. Go do something smart, like run in Spec Miata or another entry level class. Seat time costs money, why pay a premium?
Now, that said, I did the dumb thing and road race my Impreza. I would love nothing more than to see a series dedicated to what I do. However, I just don't see that we'd ever get enough participation. Cost, IMO, being the biggest factor.
- Steve
| sdecker | 04-22-2004 12:26 PM |
Steve, you bring up good points. Honda Challenge is relatively cost effective, as is Spec Miata. We as Subaru drivers are not in the same boat, unfortunately. However, as more and more 'big bore' Imprezas (2.5RS, WRX, STI) hit the used market that may be changing.
I'll be honest here and say that I'm a road racing 'dreamer' although probably more serious than a lot of folks. I'm in my mid 30's and have a little disposable income. I've taken a lot of driving schools, done a lot of HPDE's, and am actively involved in becoming a certified HPDE instructor at Road Atlanta, which is literally right next door to me. I autox my car on the 'in between' weekends. I have purchased a Formula Junior kart for my 10 year old so he can learn car control, etc.
In a nutshell, I plan to be driving *something* in amateur/semi-pro racing within the next year or two. I have looked carefully at Spec Miata and frankly, I think it's a pretty cool series. However, I would far rather drive an Impreza than a Miata when I go racing. If we can somehow keep this thing alive for a while, it just might take off...
My 2 cents.
Scott
I'll be honest here and say that I'm a road racing 'dreamer' although probably more serious than a lot of folks. I'm in my mid 30's and have a little disposable income. I've taken a lot of driving schools, done a lot of HPDE's, and am actively involved in becoming a certified HPDE instructor at Road Atlanta, which is literally right next door to me. I autox my car on the 'in between' weekends. I have purchased a Formula Junior kart for my 10 year old so he can learn car control, etc.
In a nutshell, I plan to be driving *something* in amateur/semi-pro racing within the next year or two. I have looked carefully at Spec Miata and frankly, I think it's a pretty cool series. However, I would far rather drive an Impreza than a Miata when I go racing. If we can somehow keep this thing alive for a while, it just might take off...
My 2 cents.
Scott
| ppihctyper | 04-22-2004 01:21 PM |
AWD Challenge Series - Integra AWD?
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I am all for it! Since the Honda Challenge will most likely not let me race the AWD Integra in their series....
Blake
Blake
| elgorey | 04-22-2004 03:40 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by zzyzx [/i]
[B]You might want to take a poll. My guess is right now that none of the posters here actually road race. In fact, I can think of less than a dozen here on NASIOC that road race. Autocrossing, track events and the like simply don't compare cost or risk wise to road racing.
[/quote]
You should read the thread that I linked to above. There was some excellent discussion revolving around the topics you just mentioned. Ultimately, there was not enough serious road racers interested in going road racing. It seems as though the subaru community as a whole is at the autoX and HPDE stage, and not collectively ready to make the jump to racing quite yet.
[quote]Road racing a Subaru costs way more money than most other cars. Honda Challenge works because they're cheap to buy and maintain. Not to mention you can easily buy a race-prepped car. Converting your Subaru into a race car is expensive and, if your new to road racing, IMO a waste of money. Go do something smart, like run in Spec Miata or another entry level class. Seat time costs money, why pay a premium?
[/B][/QUOTE]
Since Honda Challenge seems to be the comparison in this thread, Ill mention that Honda Challenge is most definately, absolutely postively NOT any cheaper to race. As someone who has followed the series ever since it was just on concept discussed on Honda-Tech.com, I know many of the drivers and am very familiar with the series. The most popular (by far) classes are the H1 hybrid class and H2 ITR/Prelude Vtec class. How expensive those engines alone are, it would be very easy to build and race a 2.5RS or even a WRX for much cheaper.
I said this in my thread several times, racing is as cheap as you want it to be.
[B]You might want to take a poll. My guess is right now that none of the posters here actually road race. In fact, I can think of less than a dozen here on NASIOC that road race. Autocrossing, track events and the like simply don't compare cost or risk wise to road racing.
[/quote]
You should read the thread that I linked to above. There was some excellent discussion revolving around the topics you just mentioned. Ultimately, there was not enough serious road racers interested in going road racing. It seems as though the subaru community as a whole is at the autoX and HPDE stage, and not collectively ready to make the jump to racing quite yet.
[quote]Road racing a Subaru costs way more money than most other cars. Honda Challenge works because they're cheap to buy and maintain. Not to mention you can easily buy a race-prepped car. Converting your Subaru into a race car is expensive and, if your new to road racing, IMO a waste of money. Go do something smart, like run in Spec Miata or another entry level class. Seat time costs money, why pay a premium?
[/B][/QUOTE]
Since Honda Challenge seems to be the comparison in this thread, Ill mention that Honda Challenge is most definately, absolutely postively NOT any cheaper to race. As someone who has followed the series ever since it was just on concept discussed on Honda-Tech.com, I know many of the drivers and am very familiar with the series. The most popular (by far) classes are the H1 hybrid class and H2 ITR/Prelude Vtec class. How expensive those engines alone are, it would be very easy to build and race a 2.5RS or even a WRX for much cheaper.
I said this in my thread several times, racing is as cheap as you want it to be.
| FSelekler | 04-22-2004 03:53 PM |
I remember elgorey's thread and I had come a little negative in that one unintentionally.
However, I think he summarized the problem pretty well.
IMHO, the problem is not having a strong backbone organization and I do not mean NASA or SCCA. I come from a BMWCCA and PCA background, and I sincerely believe what makes "club racing" possible is those organizations' commitment to road racing, HPDE and general driving education.
Once I got into the Subie world, I was suprised to find so many performance oriented people without an actual organization to bring multitude of efforts under a single umbrella.
The road racing series idea is a wonderful one, and I am with elgorey re:single-make series. A friend of mine and I are also entertaining the idea and thinking of building spec cars for the series. We have a long way to go, the idea is in its infancy at this time.
However, the first step that we, the Subie community, should be taking is to actually form a national-level club and pull in sponsors, membership, and factory support.
I sincerely believe that is key missing component at this time.
However, I think he summarized the problem pretty well.
IMHO, the problem is not having a strong backbone organization and I do not mean NASA or SCCA. I come from a BMWCCA and PCA background, and I sincerely believe what makes "club racing" possible is those organizations' commitment to road racing, HPDE and general driving education.
Once I got into the Subie world, I was suprised to find so many performance oriented people without an actual organization to bring multitude of efforts under a single umbrella.
The road racing series idea is a wonderful one, and I am with elgorey re:single-make series. A friend of mine and I are also entertaining the idea and thinking of building spec cars for the series. We have a long way to go, the idea is in its infancy at this time.
However, the first step that we, the Subie community, should be taking is to actually form a national-level club and pull in sponsors, membership, and factory support.
I sincerely believe that is key missing component at this time.
| sdecker | 04-22-2004 05:09 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by FSelekler [/i]
[B]IMHO, the problem is not having a strong backbone organization and I do not mean NASA or SCCA. I come from a BMWCCA and PCA background, and I sincerely believe what makes "club racing" possible is those organizations' commitment to road racing, HPDE and general driving education.
Once I got into the Subie world, I was suprised to find so many performance oriented people without an actual organization to bring multitude of efforts under a single umbrella.
However, the first step that we, the Subie community, should be taking is to actually form a national-level club and pull in sponsors, membership, and factory support.
I sincerely believe that is key missing component at this time. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, yes, and yes. I remember feeling the same way. I also attend a lot of the BMW and PCA events. While I have a lot of fun picking on the 'big dogs', I am also a little bummed out at the end of a weekend that the cameraderie is not there.
I'll tell you what I think: the Subaru demographic, for whatever reason, is just not conducive to motorsport (excepting autox, of course). I sure hope it changes, and belive me, I will be one of the charter members of ScoobCCA. :)
[B]IMHO, the problem is not having a strong backbone organization and I do not mean NASA or SCCA. I come from a BMWCCA and PCA background, and I sincerely believe what makes "club racing" possible is those organizations' commitment to road racing, HPDE and general driving education.
Once I got into the Subie world, I was suprised to find so many performance oriented people without an actual organization to bring multitude of efforts under a single umbrella.
However, the first step that we, the Subie community, should be taking is to actually form a national-level club and pull in sponsors, membership, and factory support.
I sincerely believe that is key missing component at this time. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, yes, and yes. I remember feeling the same way. I also attend a lot of the BMW and PCA events. While I have a lot of fun picking on the 'big dogs', I am also a little bummed out at the end of a weekend that the cameraderie is not there.
I'll tell you what I think: the Subaru demographic, for whatever reason, is just not conducive to motorsport (excepting autox, of course). I sure hope it changes, and belive me, I will be one of the charter members of ScoobCCA. :)
| FSelekler | 04-22-2004 05:31 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sdecker [/i]
[B].... I will be one of the charter members of ScoobCCA. :) [/B][/QUOTE]
:D Count me in too for sure. That is what we need to make happen.
[B].... I will be one of the charter members of ScoobCCA. :) [/B][/QUOTE]
:D Count me in too for sure. That is what we need to make happen.
| Penguinking | 04-22-2004 06:59 PM |
count me in too - i will definetly be there when it happens. though i am a little late, having already drifted over to the "dark side" (PCA)
| Paisan | 04-24-2004 08:32 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by elgorey [/i]
[B]I had a similar idea for an all Subaru road racing series and made the proposal to the forum about 6 mos ago.
the thread is here
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=431383[/url]
some very good info and feedback in that thread.
Personally I like the idea of an all Subaru series more than an all AWD series (which is a bit contrived) especially since you reference Honda-Challenge as inspiration.
The comraderie and passion among a single make is important IMO. [/B][/QUOTE]
Wel as some people have mentioned there isn't a whole lot of subies out there ready to road race (prep-wise, and interest wise) I'd love to see an all-subaru class, but in practicality it's much harder to pull together 10-12 subies to road race on any given weekend than to pull together 10-12 AWD cars on a given weekend. If you guys thought we could do an all Subaru, I'm all for that too.
-mike
[B]I had a similar idea for an all Subaru road racing series and made the proposal to the forum about 6 mos ago.
the thread is here
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=431383[/url]
some very good info and feedback in that thread.
Personally I like the idea of an all Subaru series more than an all AWD series (which is a bit contrived) especially since you reference Honda-Challenge as inspiration.
The comraderie and passion among a single make is important IMO. [/B][/QUOTE]
Wel as some people have mentioned there isn't a whole lot of subies out there ready to road race (prep-wise, and interest wise) I'd love to see an all-subaru class, but in practicality it's much harder to pull together 10-12 subies to road race on any given weekend than to pull together 10-12 AWD cars on a given weekend. If you guys thought we could do an all Subaru, I'm all for that too.
-mike
| Paisan | 04-24-2004 08:35 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sdecker [/i]
[B]Could we just petition NASA for a single-make series, or will they laugh at us like the SCCA would? Honda Challenge is very successful for NASA, but of course there aren't as many Subarus...
This might work for either a Subaru-only or the aforementioned AWD-only. Just a thought.
There's also a small private group of guys down here in the Southeast. I can't quite remember their names right now. I thought it was 'Car Guys' but they look like HPDE only, not actual racing.
I spoke at length with one of the principals while at Road Atlanta a year or so ago. They seemed to be very much 'run what ya brung' oriented, self-policed, etc.
Anybody know who these guys are? Damn, I'm getting old. My memory is failing me. :(
Scott [/B][/QUOTE]
NASA will let any series run at their races, you just need to show them that you have 10-12 guys entered for the races. After speaking with the local NASA officials here, Joe Lee suggested we start by running the "small-bore series" with prizes etc given out for the subies. In other words we'd have a subie class withing small-bore so if you are the highest finishing subie or AWD or what not in your class... Just brainstorming though.
-mike
[B]Could we just petition NASA for a single-make series, or will they laugh at us like the SCCA would? Honda Challenge is very successful for NASA, but of course there aren't as many Subarus...
This might work for either a Subaru-only or the aforementioned AWD-only. Just a thought.
There's also a small private group of guys down here in the Southeast. I can't quite remember their names right now. I thought it was 'Car Guys' but they look like HPDE only, not actual racing.
I spoke at length with one of the principals while at Road Atlanta a year or so ago. They seemed to be very much 'run what ya brung' oriented, self-policed, etc.
Anybody know who these guys are? Damn, I'm getting old. My memory is failing me. :(
Scott [/B][/QUOTE]
NASA will let any series run at their races, you just need to show them that you have 10-12 guys entered for the races. After speaking with the local NASA officials here, Joe Lee suggested we start by running the "small-bore series" with prizes etc given out for the subies. In other words we'd have a subie class withing small-bore so if you are the highest finishing subie or AWD or what not in your class... Just brainstorming though.
-mike
| sdecker | 04-24-2004 07:46 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Paisan [/i]
[B]NASA will let any series run at their races, you just need to show them that you have 10-12 guys entered for the races. After speaking with the local NASA officials here, Joe Lee suggested we start by running the "small-bore series" with prizes etc given out for the subies. In other words we'd have a subie class withing small-bore so if you are the highest finishing subie or AWD or what not in your class... Just brainstorming though.
-mike [/B][/QUOTE]
Wow, that sounds pretty encouraging. NASA Southeast is just getting started down here. I plan to go to their HPDE stuff to get acquainted with them.
I'm also 'that guy' who talks to everybody and is always looking for a fun angle on stuff, which is how I know a lot of the players at Road Atlanta already. Maybe this skill will come in handy at the NASA SE events. ;)
Scott
[B]NASA will let any series run at their races, you just need to show them that you have 10-12 guys entered for the races. After speaking with the local NASA officials here, Joe Lee suggested we start by running the "small-bore series" with prizes etc given out for the subies. In other words we'd have a subie class withing small-bore so if you are the highest finishing subie or AWD or what not in your class... Just brainstorming though.
-mike [/B][/QUOTE]
Wow, that sounds pretty encouraging. NASA Southeast is just getting started down here. I plan to go to their HPDE stuff to get acquainted with them.
I'm also 'that guy' who talks to everybody and is always looking for a fun angle on stuff, which is how I know a lot of the players at Road Atlanta already. Maybe this skill will come in handy at the NASA SE events. ;)
Scott
| Paisan | 04-25-2004 12:12 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sdecker [/i]
[B]Wow, that sounds pretty encouraging. NASA Southeast is just getting started down here. I plan to go to their HPDE stuff to get acquainted with them.
I'm also 'that guy' who talks to everybody and is always looking for a fun angle on stuff, which is how I know a lot of the players at Road Atlanta already. Maybe this skill will come in handy at the NASA SE events. ;)
Scott [/B][/QUOTE]
Cool cool. Yeah NASA-NE is a good open group of folks who are always willing to work with folks that show interest in the organization. TeamIAC.com runs every event and come out in force to HPDEs and NASA-X so it helps when we ask for them to help us out. Essentially they said that you need to get prepped cars and start running them in small-bore races and then once there is enough to create a class or series we could go from there. I guess I need to get my car prepped first however!
-mike
[B]Wow, that sounds pretty encouraging. NASA Southeast is just getting started down here. I plan to go to their HPDE stuff to get acquainted with them.
I'm also 'that guy' who talks to everybody and is always looking for a fun angle on stuff, which is how I know a lot of the players at Road Atlanta already. Maybe this skill will come in handy at the NASA SE events. ;)
Scott [/B][/QUOTE]
Cool cool. Yeah NASA-NE is a good open group of folks who are always willing to work with folks that show interest in the organization. TeamIAC.com runs every event and come out in force to HPDEs and NASA-X so it helps when we ask for them to help us out. Essentially they said that you need to get prepped cars and start running them in small-bore races and then once there is enough to create a class or series we could go from there. I guess I need to get my car prepped first however!
-mike
| Ru fan | 04-26-2004 12:00 AM |
Dont forget us 2.2L guys! Located in CT.
Later,
Seth E.
Later,
Seth E.
| Penguinking | 04-26-2004 01:11 AM |
Scott -
even though i don't have a subie of my own i would gladly offer my services to you if you decide to prep your rex out for the AWD Challenge :D
behind every great driver is a great pit crew
:devil:
Robert
even though i don't have a subie of my own i would gladly offer my services to you if you decide to prep your rex out for the AWD Challenge :D
behind every great driver is a great pit crew
:devil:
Robert
| Paisan | 04-26-2004 04:02 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Ru fan [/i]
[B]Dont forget us 2.2L guys! Located in CT.
Later,
Seth E. [/B][/QUOTE]
I won't forget you. I race a '96 Impreza L 2.2L
[IMG]http://teamiac.com/events2003/lrp-10-25-03/Pics/images/IMG_8056.jpg[/IMG]
-mike
[B]Dont forget us 2.2L guys! Located in CT.
Later,
Seth E. [/B][/QUOTE]
I won't forget you. I race a '96 Impreza L 2.2L
[IMG]http://teamiac.com/events2003/lrp-10-25-03/Pics/images/IMG_8056.jpg[/IMG]
-mike
| Paisan | 04-26-2004 04:04 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Penguinking [/i]
[B]
behind every great driver is a great pit crew
:devil:
Robert [/B][/QUOTE]
This is true, Farabomb keeps all of Team IAC's vehicle cranking, especially this year since we are testing various brake rotors for racingbrake.com He also keeps us well fed in the pits as well!
-mike
[B]
behind every great driver is a great pit crew
:devil:
Robert [/B][/QUOTE]
This is true, Farabomb keeps all of Team IAC's vehicle cranking, especially this year since we are testing various brake rotors for racingbrake.com He also keeps us well fed in the pits as well!
-mike
| sdecker | 04-26-2004 07:52 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Penguinking [/i]
[B]Scott -
even though i don't have a subie of my own i would gladly offer my services to you if you decide to prep your rex out for the AWD Challenge :D
behind every great driver is a great pit crew
:devil:
Robert [/B][/QUOTE]
Haha, well I wouldn't call myself anything near a great driver! I have a great car, a few skills, and plenty of laps at RA to make me look better than I really am. ;)
I will certainly take you up on the offer to help, though. It takes a lot of damn work to race for a weekend. I've done it for other people quite a few times as crew.
Scott
[B]Scott -
even though i don't have a subie of my own i would gladly offer my services to you if you decide to prep your rex out for the AWD Challenge :D
behind every great driver is a great pit crew
:devil:
Robert [/B][/QUOTE]
Haha, well I wouldn't call myself anything near a great driver! I have a great car, a few skills, and plenty of laps at RA to make me look better than I really am. ;)
I will certainly take you up on the offer to help, though. It takes a lot of damn work to race for a weekend. I've done it for other people quite a few times as crew.
Scott
| Ru fan | 05-03-2004 12:04 AM |
Good topic, keep it going!
Later,
Seth E.:alien:
Later,
Seth E.:alien:
| Paisan | 10-03-2004 04:09 PM |
Videos are up, I'm one of the only people here who are actually competatively racing a subaru in road racing. I'd like to see more subies out and about in the road racing circuits of the Northeast.
-mike
PS: Videos are up from my Pocono Race! [url]http://TeamIAC.com[/url]
-mike
PS: Videos are up from my Pocono Race! [url]http://TeamIAC.com[/url]
| Penguinking | 10-03-2004 10:23 PM |
what car/class do you race in? i didnt know, aside from USTCC, that there was an american series that included subarus
| Penguinking | 10-03-2004 10:25 PM |
btw if anyone in the Atlanta area is interested in campaigning a subaru in roadrace, let me know cause i'd be very willing to help out
| Paisan | 10-03-2004 10:49 PM |
Well for now EMRA has it classed and my local NASA region will let me run it where it fits in the lineup. I plan on running it wherever I can whenever I can, I will suck and be slow but I'm determined to get these cars allowed out in road racing. Even if it means creating our own series!!!! :)
-mike
-mike
| Paisan | 03-01-2005 02:58 PM |
New year, lets get the talks going again for an AWD Road Race Series....
-mike
-mike
| ratt_finkel | 03-01-2005 06:00 PM |
If I were closer to popular tracks I'd be willing.
| dowroa | 03-01-2005 06:32 PM |
Can I go ahead and launch a preemptive protest against Tom? If he is in this, he is going to have all kinds of parts on backwards, inside out and whatnot.
:)
- dow
:)
- dow
| Ru fan | 03-01-2005 07:57 PM |
Still here. I have been collecting parts for my race car, and should be getting the cage this coming spring. Right now all the decent shops are flooded with work, so I have had to put it off. Track season is coming up fast and there is still so much work to be done.
Later,
Seth E. :alien:
Later,
Seth E. :alien:
| Paisan | 03-02-2005 01:12 AM |
Seth,
Glad you posted cause we were tying to find you to include you in our very early planning stages. Drop an e-mail to either myself or Adam at [email][email�protected][/email] or [email][email�protected][/email] just so we can get you on board from the very begininning (that goes for anyone else who is serious and wants to help get the ball rolling on this)
-mike
Glad you posted cause we were tying to find you to include you in our very early planning stages. Drop an e-mail to either myself or Adam at [email][email�protected][/email] or [email][email�protected][/email] just so we can get you on board from the very begininning (that goes for anyone else who is serious and wants to help get the ball rolling on this)
-mike
| Ru fan | 03-02-2005 09:00 AM |
Mike, I sent u an e-mail.
Later,
Seth E.
Later,
Seth E.
| Paisan | 03-03-2005 04:27 PM |
Thanks seth, got it. I'll bring it saturday to our planning meeting and will let you know how it goes.
-mike
-mike
| lo-buck | 03-03-2005 09:37 PM |
does anyone know where one could find a list of awd cars sold in this country? i was thinking of using rally-x results to refrence but a decent list would help.
-spenc
-spenc
| CTKAG | 03-03-2005 09:44 PM |
Interested as well.
-Keith-
-Keith-
| Paisan | 03-04-2005 04:24 AM |
[QUOTE=lo-buck]does anyone know where one could find a list of awd cars sold in this country? i was thinking of using rally-x results to refrence but a decent list would help.
-spenc[/QUOTE]
We can figure it out, there aren't that many of them. Not sure of a comprehensive list though anywhere.
-mike
-spenc[/QUOTE]
We can figure it out, there aren't that many of them. Not sure of a comprehensive list though anywhere.
-mike
| santofontana | 03-04-2005 11:49 AM |
interested in MA
| Paisan | 03-07-2005 01:34 PM |
We had a preliminary meeting this weekend to try to get some rules down for the series. We actually made a lot of headway. Look for rules to be up shortly.
-mike
-mike
| MattNJ2.8 | 03-07-2005 07:33 PM |
Very cool. If anybody can pull it off, you guys could.
AZP guys have solid pull within the Northeast Subie community...best of luck. Lemme know if I can help.
AZP guys have solid pull within the Northeast Subie community...best of luck. Lemme know if I can help.
| Paisan | 03-11-2005 05:24 AM |
[QUOTE=MattNJ2.8]Very cool. If anybody can pull it off, you guys could.
AZP guys have solid pull within the Northeast Subie community...best of luck. Lemme know if I can help.[/QUOTE]
Thanks matt. Hopefully out of all these "racer" wannabes we can get at least 10+ cars to participate in this.
-mike
AZP guys have solid pull within the Northeast Subie community...best of luck. Lemme know if I can help.[/QUOTE]
Thanks matt. Hopefully out of all these "racer" wannabes we can get at least 10+ cars to participate in this.
-mike
| joey1313 | 03-11-2005 08:32 AM |
Just an idea on classing all the different types of cars. This is something that is done at our local road course for those who want to race, have fun, and not spend a billion dollars doing it.
Bracket Racing Classes.
It would be easy to adjust from track to track. Here is how it works here:
If you qualify at less than 1:20 you are bracket A
1:20-1:25 bracket B
1:26-1:30 bracket C
1:31-x:xx bracket D
You could have as many brackets as you need.
Only a transponder in the car....no other timing equipment that the driver can use and no radios for people to tell the driver what the lap times are. If you breakout you are disqualified and lose all points and get moved up to the next bracket for the remainder of the season. This way you can always be competitive in your class no matter what you drive or how prepared your car is. It seems to work well.
Bracket Racing Classes.
It would be easy to adjust from track to track. Here is how it works here:
If you qualify at less than 1:20 you are bracket A
1:20-1:25 bracket B
1:26-1:30 bracket C
1:31-x:xx bracket D
You could have as many brackets as you need.
Only a transponder in the car....no other timing equipment that the driver can use and no radios for people to tell the driver what the lap times are. If you breakout you are disqualified and lose all points and get moved up to the next bracket for the remainder of the season. This way you can always be competitive in your class no matter what you drive or how prepared your car is. It seems to work well.
| dowroa | 03-11-2005 08:46 AM |
[QUOTE=joey1313]Just an idea on classing all the different types of cars. This is something that is done at our local road course for those who want to race, have fun, and not spend a billion dollars doing it.
Bracket Racing Classes.
It would be easy to adjust from track to track. Here is how it works here:
If you qualify at less than 1:20 you are bracket A
1:20-1:25 bracket B
1:26-1:30 bracket C
1:31-x:xx bracket D
You could have as many brackets as you need.
Only a transponder in the car....no other timing equipment that the driver can use and no radios for people to tell the driver what the lap times are. If you breakout you are disqualified and lose all points and get moved up to the next bracket for the remainder of the season. This way you can always be competitive in your class no matter what you drive or how prepared your car is. It seems to work well.[/QUOTE]
The only constructive criscism I have on that is:
1. How do you determine your bracket time ranges? What is your reference time?
2. It is harder, but can't people 'sandbag' their times to stay in lower classes for qualifying?
2a. What happens if your time falls BELOW the class you are trying to qualify for? Do you drop a bracket?
3. Breaking out of your time because you have a 'home' track or just because your skill improves would penalize you. Is that fair?
3a. Maybe you had been running a 'cheaper' R-compound, and you go to a stickier tire because you finally had some money. That can catapult your two classes + better driving with the tires + improving times == class bouncing.
Just curious. Just some thoughts I had. Good inital thoughts as I like it.
Let me know. Maybe I am thinking of '1%' cases, but I was just interested in thoughts on that.
- dow
PS. Are we still 'gagging' interest? ;) :lol:
Bracket Racing Classes.
It would be easy to adjust from track to track. Here is how it works here:
If you qualify at less than 1:20 you are bracket A
1:20-1:25 bracket B
1:26-1:30 bracket C
1:31-x:xx bracket D
You could have as many brackets as you need.
Only a transponder in the car....no other timing equipment that the driver can use and no radios for people to tell the driver what the lap times are. If you breakout you are disqualified and lose all points and get moved up to the next bracket for the remainder of the season. This way you can always be competitive in your class no matter what you drive or how prepared your car is. It seems to work well.[/QUOTE]
The only constructive criscism I have on that is:
1. How do you determine your bracket time ranges? What is your reference time?
2. It is harder, but can't people 'sandbag' their times to stay in lower classes for qualifying?
2a. What happens if your time falls BELOW the class you are trying to qualify for? Do you drop a bracket?
3. Breaking out of your time because you have a 'home' track or just because your skill improves would penalize you. Is that fair?
3a. Maybe you had been running a 'cheaper' R-compound, and you go to a stickier tire because you finally had some money. That can catapult your two classes + better driving with the tires + improving times == class bouncing.
Just curious. Just some thoughts I had. Good inital thoughts as I like it.
Let me know. Maybe I am thinking of '1%' cases, but I was just interested in thoughts on that.
- dow
PS. Are we still 'gagging' interest? ;) :lol:
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