| wrexman | 07-03-2005 04:53 PM |
Getting a Start in Rally Racing?
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Does anyone know the best and fastest way to get started in rally racing?
| WRXMaster | 07-03-2005 05:04 PM |
$$$$$$$
| timmyb21 | 07-03-2005 05:10 PM |
rallycross, then buy a $3500 rally prepped golf and go racing. Spend money on entry fees, not speed parts. Replace parts that break, and tires. Have fun and don't roll the car at your first event.
Tim
Tim
| Protege Menace | 07-03-2005 07:04 PM |
get a suit and helmet first, then work your way up as co-driver.
at least thats how I got stuck :(
at least thats how I got stuck :(
| Recce01 | 07-03-2005 07:50 PM |
[url]www.gcrallyx.com[/url]
| leaknoil | 07-03-2005 08:39 PM |
If you want to get some lessons and have the cash you might hit up [url]http://www.team-oneil.com/[/url] but, if you have lots of cash the one you really want to go to is Tommi Makinen's rally school in Finland.
| LyveWRX | 07-04-2005 11:45 AM |
Good Thread Here:
[url]http://www.specialstage.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=228&topic_id=19541&mesg_id=19541[/url]
[url]http://www.specialstage.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=228&topic_id=19541&mesg_id=19541[/url]
| thechickencow | 07-04-2005 09:13 PM |
My car's for sale:
[url]http://www.rallyclassified.com/detail.php?cat=18&de=2228[/url]
Rallyx is a great place to start, and Nick posted a good thread on SS.com as well.
Jay
#583 G5
[url]http://www.rallyclassified.com/detail.php?cat=18&de=2228[/url]
Rallyx is a great place to start, and Nick posted a good thread on SS.com as well.
Jay
#583 G5
| wrexman | 07-04-2005 10:41 PM |
[QUOTE=Protege Menace]get a suit and helmet first, then work your way up as co-driver.
at least thats how I got stuck :([/QUOTE]
That's sounds cool, easy and cheap! Where did you find your driver, or where did they find you?
Thanks for all your input guys - I really don't have a lot of money right now, but I'm going to research this exciting lifestyle. If I can find a way in, I'm there.
at least thats how I got stuck :([/QUOTE]
That's sounds cool, easy and cheap! Where did you find your driver, or where did they find you?
Thanks for all your input guys - I really don't have a lot of money right now, but I'm going to research this exciting lifestyle. If I can find a way in, I'm there.
| baileypicks24 | 07-04-2005 11:56 PM |
[QUOTE=thechickencow]
Rallyx is a great place to start
[/QUOTE]
12345
Rallyx is a great place to start
[/QUOTE]
12345
| LyveWRX | 07-05-2005 09:13 AM |
[quote]"Where did you find your driver, or where did they find you?"[/quote]
Go to:
[url]www.specialstage.com[/url]
sign up and start reading... I wish they did there archive better, there have been some really great threads about starting a Rally Hobbie (and really thats all the bulk of us will ever get from rally. (aside from THAT feeling)). There is a whole section for co-drivers. Along with RallyX (which after last weekend I have a new appreciation for) you also may want to try TSD Road Rally. I feel that it (TSD) is a really good way to develop tenacity and in-car behaviors that will assist someone in performance rally. Also make friends with the other rally people in your area. I see that you are on the west coast, there are tons of ralliests out there, in fact it almost is as strong an area for rally as the mid-west.
Go to:
[url]www.specialstage.com[/url]
sign up and start reading... I wish they did there archive better, there have been some really great threads about starting a Rally Hobbie (and really thats all the bulk of us will ever get from rally. (aside from THAT feeling)). There is a whole section for co-drivers. Along with RallyX (which after last weekend I have a new appreciation for) you also may want to try TSD Road Rally. I feel that it (TSD) is a really good way to develop tenacity and in-car behaviors that will assist someone in performance rally. Also make friends with the other rally people in your area. I see that you are on the west coast, there are tons of ralliests out there, in fact it almost is as strong an area for rally as the mid-west.
| Chromer | 07-05-2005 09:44 AM |
Step 1: Arrange to be born in Europe to well-to-do parents.
Step 2: Begin racing karts at 5 years old. Win everything.
Step 3: Enter your national rally series at 16 with solid sponsorship. Win the championship. Bonus points for it being in Britian or a Scandanavian country.
Step 4: Bring your sponsorship $$$ with you to a team in the JPWRC. Win it.
Step 5: Move to a factory team in the the PWRC. Secure additional personal sponsorship. Win the PWRC.
Step 6: Welcome to the WRCircus...
That said, RallyX is a heck of a lot of inexpensive fun.
Step 2: Begin racing karts at 5 years old. Win everything.
Step 3: Enter your national rally series at 16 with solid sponsorship. Win the championship. Bonus points for it being in Britian or a Scandanavian country.
Step 4: Bring your sponsorship $$$ with you to a team in the JPWRC. Win it.
Step 5: Move to a factory team in the the PWRC. Secure additional personal sponsorship. Win the PWRC.
Step 6: Welcome to the WRCircus...
That said, RallyX is a heck of a lot of inexpensive fun.
| outback2.5HO | 07-05-2005 01:35 PM |
For seat time, check out the Primitive Performance Driving School. Its a good rally school that's at least on the West Coast.. Go to [url]www.get-primitive.com[/url] for more info. It's usually less than $200, and you can work on both driving and co-driving excercises. The next one is in August.
It's a good idea to start out with a school, crewing, co-driving, and rally crossing to get a feel for the sport. You can also rent a rally car (G2 or Production Class) to help you get seat time and save your $. I wouldn't buy a car until you are sure you are ready to commit to the sport. $3500 will get you the safety gear (helmet, suit), rally school, a couple of rentals, and a couple of events. That should be a good start. ;)
If you have any other questions about getting started, you can PM or email me, rally is a large part of what I do..
or check out the site at [url]www.allwheelsdriven.net[/url] , some good rally info for you. :)
It's a good idea to start out with a school, crewing, co-driving, and rally crossing to get a feel for the sport. You can also rent a rally car (G2 or Production Class) to help you get seat time and save your $. I wouldn't buy a car until you are sure you are ready to commit to the sport. $3500 will get you the safety gear (helmet, suit), rally school, a couple of rentals, and a couple of events. That should be a good start. ;)
If you have any other questions about getting started, you can PM or email me, rally is a large part of what I do..
or check out the site at [url]www.allwheelsdriven.net[/url] , some good rally info for you. :)
| ammelk | 07-05-2005 02:53 PM |
[QUOTE=outback2.5HO]For seat time, check out the Primitive Performance Driving School. Its a good rally school that's at least on the West Coast.. Go to [url]www.get-primitive.com[/url] for more info. It's usually less than $200, and you can work on both driving and co-driving excercises. The next one is in August.
It's a good idea to start out with a school, crewing, co-driving, and rally crossing to get a feel for the sport. You can also rent a rally car (G2 or Production Class) to help you get seat time and save your $. I wouldn't buy a car until you are sure you are ready to commit to the sport. $3500 will get you the safety gear (helmet, suit), rally school, a couple of rentals, and a couple of events. That should be a good start. ;)
If you have any other questions about getting started, you can PM or email me, rally is a large part of what I do..
or check out the site at [url]www.allwheelsdriven.net[/url] , some good rally info for you. :)[/QUOTE]
I second that.. the driving school put on by paul and everyone is a great value when it comes to seat time, I would've had to do a whole season of rallycrosses to get the amount of seat time you get in one day at that class..
and the atomsphere is perfecr. you can push and push and not worry about times as your there to make the mistakes (as in your car control and to learn your limits and your car's limits ) and to learn from those mistakes.
besides BARRETT is a rocking instructor :D (sucking up in hopes of working as a pit crew member at wildwest..).. just don't get jamie.. she'll try to kill ya... :devil:
there's a rallyX this month on the 30th.
Here's a copy from some of the email from Janice D.
" the next Brooklyn Bash rallycross is July 30. The course site may be "rougher than Hillsboro", (truly not MUCH rougher), but in addition to that, the competitor feedback is that the elevation changes and necessary two stops mid-course (providing for a safe course) make for a wonderful and challenging course. Out of 55 entries, there was not a SINGLE complaint from a competitor. Results and photos soon to be posted on [url]www.historicbrooklyntavern.com[/url] "
It'll be a great time, I'm going to be there.. can't wait...
-AD
It's a good idea to start out with a school, crewing, co-driving, and rally crossing to get a feel for the sport. You can also rent a rally car (G2 or Production Class) to help you get seat time and save your $. I wouldn't buy a car until you are sure you are ready to commit to the sport. $3500 will get you the safety gear (helmet, suit), rally school, a couple of rentals, and a couple of events. That should be a good start. ;)
If you have any other questions about getting started, you can PM or email me, rally is a large part of what I do..
or check out the site at [url]www.allwheelsdriven.net[/url] , some good rally info for you. :)[/QUOTE]
I second that.. the driving school put on by paul and everyone is a great value when it comes to seat time, I would've had to do a whole season of rallycrosses to get the amount of seat time you get in one day at that class..
and the atomsphere is perfecr. you can push and push and not worry about times as your there to make the mistakes (as in your car control and to learn your limits and your car's limits ) and to learn from those mistakes.
besides BARRETT is a rocking instructor :D (sucking up in hopes of working as a pit crew member at wildwest..).. just don't get jamie.. she'll try to kill ya... :devil:
there's a rallyX this month on the 30th.
Here's a copy from some of the email from Janice D.
" the next Brooklyn Bash rallycross is July 30. The course site may be "rougher than Hillsboro", (truly not MUCH rougher), but in addition to that, the competitor feedback is that the elevation changes and necessary two stops mid-course (providing for a safe course) make for a wonderful and challenging course. Out of 55 entries, there was not a SINGLE complaint from a competitor. Results and photos soon to be posted on [url]www.historicbrooklyntavern.com[/url] "
It'll be a great time, I'm going to be there.. can't wait...
-AD
| randy zimmer | 07-06-2005 11:52 AM |
Affordable Rallying
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There is such a thing as affordable rallying.
You need to watch what you race and what you buy and why.
Some events are more costly than others to run and knowing people never hurts.
If someone wants to do it badly enough, they can.
rz
You need to watch what you race and what you buy and why.
Some events are more costly than others to run and knowing people never hurts.
If someone wants to do it badly enough, they can.
rz
| thechickencow | 07-06-2005 12:26 PM |
I agree with Randy-
Its something you need to commit to and jump in and do it. I did and I'm pretty happy I did, I'm just selling the car to take some time off for grad school. I was able to do events MUCH cheaper than a lot of people who have put up their average weekend costs for comparison, and I still have had fun and have felt good about my results.
Jay
Its something you need to commit to and jump in and do it. I did and I'm pretty happy I did, I'm just selling the car to take some time off for grad school. I was able to do events MUCH cheaper than a lot of people who have put up their average weekend costs for comparison, and I still have had fun and have felt good about my results.
Jay
| RB5 Clone | 07-06-2005 04:50 PM |
surefire way to land a co-driving seat
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post on special stage or other more regional rally sites that you are new and looking for a co-driving spot. add in that you are ready to contribute $$ to entry fees and motels, gas, etc... and your phone will jingle for sure.
if you wanna drive, start with a simple ready-built car and spend your $$ running events instead of wasting it on go-fast hardware. you can't go really go fast anyway, until you get some seat time. rally-X is the best start here--prep can be as simple as buying a second-hand helmet and a set of snow tires for whatever car you drive every day.
finally, realize the most basic equation about motorsports--that if you wanna play, you gotta pay. you'll certainly pay less to sit in right seat, and it's a great way to get started.
cheers,
Dave G
[url]www.lastditchracing.net[/url]
if you wanna drive, start with a simple ready-built car and spend your $$ running events instead of wasting it on go-fast hardware. you can't go really go fast anyway, until you get some seat time. rally-X is the best start here--prep can be as simple as buying a second-hand helmet and a set of snow tires for whatever car you drive every day.
finally, realize the most basic equation about motorsports--that if you wanna play, you gotta pay. you'll certainly pay less to sit in right seat, and it's a great way to get started.
cheers,
Dave G
[url]www.lastditchracing.net[/url]
| rally_a_4g63 | 07-06-2005 04:59 PM |
[QUOTE=wrexman]Does anyone know the best and fastest way to get started in rally racing?[/QUOTE]
Buy my PGT Talon do a couple of rally cross events and race it at the Wild West Rally the first weekend of Sept....
Buy my PGT Talon do a couple of rally cross events and race it at the Wild West Rally the first weekend of Sept....
| outback2.5HO | 07-06-2005 05:53 PM |
that'd be a good idea if you could start rallying in PGT.. ;)
there's has been a lot of good input that should help you get started in the right direction. :)
there's has been a lot of good input that should help you get started in the right direction. :)
| Sean | 07-07-2005 10:16 PM |
[QUOTE=outback2.5HO]that'd be a good idea if you could start rallying in PGT.. ;)[/QUOTE]
Hey, I got [i]my[/i] novice exemption to start in PGT! :lol:
[url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/][img]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/pics/lil.gif[/img][/url] [url=http://www.clutchdrop.com/]NESIC Web Site[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/]Trunkmonkey FAQ[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/gallery/Trunkmonkeys/]Trunkmonkeys in Action[/url]
Hey, I got [i]my[/i] novice exemption to start in PGT! :lol:
[url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/][img]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/pics/lil.gif[/img][/url] [url=http://www.clutchdrop.com/]NESIC Web Site[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/]Trunkmonkey FAQ[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/gallery/Trunkmonkeys/]Trunkmonkeys in Action[/url]
| rally_a_4g63 | 07-08-2005 01:33 AM |
If there is a will there is a way.... I think I know someone who started in an Open class car this year????
| Protege Menace | 07-08-2005 02:12 AM |
you might be better off getting a G2 car, since they are making ruels that all n00bs have to start in G2.
also, its a good way to learn before moving up the HP ladder
also, its a good way to learn before moving up the HP ladder
| Got Pink? | 07-08-2005 07:45 AM |
What is the car(s) to have for a noob in G2?
I was thinking about starting with an Integra or Civic eventually with a 2L RSX/S2k motor or just a built B18 so it would have decent power to keep me interested, but not enough low end torque to be hard to learn on.
Or should I look for an exemption to run PGT in a 2.5RS?
Basically if I am going to start in rally I want to get something that is inexpensive and has lots of aftermarket support and spare parts are easy to find but still is fast enough that its not like the Golfs I saw at a local rallyx that were just loud but going nowhere fast. Also I would prefer something no older than the mid nineties so it will be easier to find good spare parts/shells in this area since older cars do rust out in the Northeast.
Nate
I was thinking about starting with an Integra or Civic eventually with a 2L RSX/S2k motor or just a built B18 so it would have decent power to keep me interested, but not enough low end torque to be hard to learn on.
Or should I look for an exemption to run PGT in a 2.5RS?
Basically if I am going to start in rally I want to get something that is inexpensive and has lots of aftermarket support and spare parts are easy to find but still is fast enough that its not like the Golfs I saw at a local rallyx that were just loud but going nowhere fast. Also I would prefer something no older than the mid nineties so it will be easier to find good spare parts/shells in this area since older cars do rust out in the Northeast.
Nate
| Chromer | 07-08-2005 08:32 AM |
The G2 car to start in seems to be a YARG. Yet Another Rally Golf. If the ones you saw were loud but not going very fast, then the driver was spending too much time with his right foot off the floorboards. G2 prepped Golfs do very, very well at NER rallycrosses, and quite often beat the raw times of most of the 4WD mod cars.
Sean most likely got the exemption because he has quite publicly been building his car since well before the PGT novice restriction was put in place.
People have also used Civics, Neons, Mazda Proteges, Saabs... Another choice might be a FWD Impreza which can take all the normal gravel suspension bits, but will run in P or G2. When you're ready, swap an AWD drivetrain into it, or (better) get an AWD roller and swap your stuff into it.
The advice everyone gives is to buy an already-built and logbooked car. The more research I do into getting into rally, the more that sounds like good advice.
[edit] Here's a freshly listed G5 Saab 900T that can go back to G2 spec by swapping in a non-turbo engine or just yanking out the turbo (quick and dirty to do, but it won't be very fast). [url]http://specialstage.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=235&topic_id=7986&mesg_id=7986&page=[/url] [/edit]
Sean most likely got the exemption because he has quite publicly been building his car since well before the PGT novice restriction was put in place.
People have also used Civics, Neons, Mazda Proteges, Saabs... Another choice might be a FWD Impreza which can take all the normal gravel suspension bits, but will run in P or G2. When you're ready, swap an AWD drivetrain into it, or (better) get an AWD roller and swap your stuff into it.
The advice everyone gives is to buy an already-built and logbooked car. The more research I do into getting into rally, the more that sounds like good advice.
[edit] Here's a freshly listed G5 Saab 900T that can go back to G2 spec by swapping in a non-turbo engine or just yanking out the turbo (quick and dirty to do, but it won't be very fast). [url]http://specialstage.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=235&topic_id=7986&mesg_id=7986&page=[/url] [/edit]
| RichardM | 07-08-2005 10:42 AM |
[QUOTE=Chromer]
[edit] Here's a freshly listed G5 Saab 900T that can go back to G2 spec by swapping in a non-turbo engine or just yanking out the turbo (quick and dirty to do, but it won't be very fast). [url]http://specialstage.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=235&topic_id=7986&mesg_id=7986&page=[/url] [/edit][/QUOTE]
It's not very fast as a G5 car either. :lol: But that is mostly due to the driver, me. As a G2 car, it should have about 140 HP as the stock compression ratio is 9.5 to 1. With the stock turbo and tuning, it has 175 HP if my memory isn't letting me down. With the after market 3" exhaust is has, the HP is about 185 or so. With tuning and a larger turbo, it can go to 200+.
Richard
[edit] Here's a freshly listed G5 Saab 900T that can go back to G2 spec by swapping in a non-turbo engine or just yanking out the turbo (quick and dirty to do, but it won't be very fast). [url]http://specialstage.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=235&topic_id=7986&mesg_id=7986&page=[/url] [/edit][/QUOTE]
It's not very fast as a G5 car either. :lol: But that is mostly due to the driver, me. As a G2 car, it should have about 140 HP as the stock compression ratio is 9.5 to 1. With the stock turbo and tuning, it has 175 HP if my memory isn't letting me down. With the after market 3" exhaust is has, the HP is about 185 or so. With tuning and a larger turbo, it can go to 200+.
Richard
| randy zimmer | 07-08-2005 11:54 AM |
Looks may not be decieving but I'm going to guess the guy inside didn't think he was going so slow.
I just have to laugh as I repeatedly read what everyone types about what they HAVE to do to mod a car before they even go out there.
GO DO IT, then worry about what the car needs, usually - its a better driver.
If you buy a car, ask to test it - agreeing to pay for damages or better yet, handing over some money first. Your first car is disposable, you WILL wreck it.
rz
I just have to laugh as I repeatedly read what everyone types about what they HAVE to do to mod a car before they even go out there.
GO DO IT, then worry about what the car needs, usually - its a better driver.
If you buy a car, ask to test it - agreeing to pay for damages or better yet, handing over some money first. Your first car is disposable, you WILL wreck it.
rz
| randy zimmer | 07-08-2005 12:47 PM |
"since they are making ruels (sic) that all n00bs have to start in G2"
"they" being Rally America.
CARS and NASA have no such rule.
1 get the rules
2 get a schedule
3 get a car
rz
"they" being Rally America.
CARS and NASA have no such rule.
1 get the rules
2 get a schedule
3 get a car
rz
| Chromer | 07-08-2005 01:26 PM |
[QUOTE=randy zimmer]I just have to laugh as I repeatedly read what everyone types about what they HAVE to do to mod a car before they even go out there.[/QUOTE]
Randy, aside from the rulebook mandated saftey modifications (cage/fuel tank & line protection/seats/VRP's/mudflaps/airbag removal), what would you suggest as a minimum for car prep/modifications and service-truck-carried spares for an entry-level P or G2 car for someone who wanted to be sure to at least score a Dead Last But Finished? Knowing a little of your background from your net postings, I'm quite curious about your thoughts on this, actually.
Randy, aside from the rulebook mandated saftey modifications (cage/fuel tank & line protection/seats/VRP's/mudflaps/airbag removal), what would you suggest as a minimum for car prep/modifications and service-truck-carried spares for an entry-level P or G2 car for someone who wanted to be sure to at least score a Dead Last But Finished? Knowing a little of your background from your net postings, I'm quite curious about your thoughts on this, actually.
| RichardM | 07-08-2005 01:58 PM |
Drive carefully.
| thechickencow | 07-08-2005 04:21 PM |
You could do a rally and finish on a stock car with only the safety modifications that are required, so there isn't much you HAVE to do to run. Buying a prepped car is a good start because you know its got most of the stuff you need to have, and probably will have some nice stuff above what you really need.
If you know your car you'll have a better idea of spares, but I've managed to do decently without much as far as spares. With less spares you just risk DNFing more than being able to fix whatever is wrong. I've run with no spare control arms so far and have been fine, but I know that if I hit something and take one out I'm done.
Jay
If you know your car you'll have a better idea of spares, but I've managed to do decently without much as far as spares. With less spares you just risk DNFing more than being able to fix whatever is wrong. I've run with no spare control arms so far and have been fine, but I know that if I hit something and take one out I'm done.
Jay
| ANZAC_1915 | 07-08-2005 11:24 PM |
Getting experience:
1) rallyx
2) TSD rallies (the kind on dirt and snow) -- not only improve your driving experience but also your communication skills. Believe it or not rallying involves a LOT of communication.
3) co-drive
4) rally schools
(all as said above by various peeps)
The Car:
1) buy don't build, BUT MAKE SURE IT HAS A CURRENT CAGE
2) spend the money on suspension, tires (Silverstones are an excellent tire for beginners, and the price is right), skid plate, safety equipment
3) start with a regional/club event, don't do Rim as your first event!! :)
1) rallyx
2) TSD rallies (the kind on dirt and snow) -- not only improve your driving experience but also your communication skills. Believe it or not rallying involves a LOT of communication.
3) co-drive
4) rally schools
(all as said above by various peeps)
The Car:
1) buy don't build, BUT MAKE SURE IT HAS A CURRENT CAGE
2) spend the money on suspension, tires (Silverstones are an excellent tire for beginners, and the price is right), skid plate, safety equipment
3) start with a regional/club event, don't do Rim as your first event!! :)
| RB5 Clone | 07-09-2005 11:26 AM |
[QUOTE=Chromer].... aside from the rulebook mandated saftey modifications (cage/fuel tank & line protection/seats/VRP's/mudflaps/airbag removal), what would you suggest as a minimum for car prep/modifications and service-truck-carried spares for an entry-level P or G2 car for someone who wanted to be sure to at least score a Dead Last But Finished? [/QUOTE]
Mods to starter car? Only to make it legal for class and series entered. Spend $ to run races instead of trying to make car faster.
Service is an often overlooked part of getting started. First, you need a couple mechanically inclinded buddies to be your crew. Hard to come in to 20-minute service and do your own work. It can be done, but robs you of opportunity to rest/clear out your mind during service breaks. Breaks during the rally are esp. important for a new codriver who's still adjusting to the stresses of reading notes, calculating control times, etc. Rallying is an endurance sport, beware of brain farts late in the event.
Spares 101 -- Bring extra wheels and tires. Basic crucial electrical stuff like spare alternator, fuel pump relay, coil pack etc -- the kind of simple, plug-n-play kind of electricals that can be easily/quickly replaced, but without which you would DNF for sure.
Suspension spares are nice, but if your crew can't manage a strut or control arm or halfshaft replacement in the time allotted, they're kind of superfluous. Used stock parts are fine here, cheaper and work way better whatever stuff on the car that you've bent or busted.
A final, broken-record message -- spend your $ running events, logging seat time however you can. If you have a choice between a sexay new clutch or a driving school, put in a cheap used clutch and go for the driver training! Developing "driver software" is the single most cost-effective path to getting faster (and safer, too).
There's no better way to earn the respect of your peers than "being the fast guy in the slow car." The first time you smoke some guy in an Evo or WRX with your clapped-out Golf or basic Impreza, you'll be hooked for good.
Dave G
Mods to starter car? Only to make it legal for class and series entered. Spend $ to run races instead of trying to make car faster.
Service is an often overlooked part of getting started. First, you need a couple mechanically inclinded buddies to be your crew. Hard to come in to 20-minute service and do your own work. It can be done, but robs you of opportunity to rest/clear out your mind during service breaks. Breaks during the rally are esp. important for a new codriver who's still adjusting to the stresses of reading notes, calculating control times, etc. Rallying is an endurance sport, beware of brain farts late in the event.
Spares 101 -- Bring extra wheels and tires. Basic crucial electrical stuff like spare alternator, fuel pump relay, coil pack etc -- the kind of simple, plug-n-play kind of electricals that can be easily/quickly replaced, but without which you would DNF for sure.
Suspension spares are nice, but if your crew can't manage a strut or control arm or halfshaft replacement in the time allotted, they're kind of superfluous. Used stock parts are fine here, cheaper and work way better whatever stuff on the car that you've bent or busted.
A final, broken-record message -- spend your $ running events, logging seat time however you can. If you have a choice between a sexay new clutch or a driving school, put in a cheap used clutch and go for the driver training! Developing "driver software" is the single most cost-effective path to getting faster (and safer, too).
There's no better way to earn the respect of your peers than "being the fast guy in the slow car." The first time you smoke some guy in an Evo or WRX with your clapped-out Golf or basic Impreza, you'll be hooked for good.
Dave G
| randy zimmer | 07-09-2005 03:19 PM |
minimums
�
�
All I know is Subaru.
For any rallyX I've done (four venues) just the car is fine.
No special tires or settings are needed.
For rally, I should write a book.
I have a million little cheap things I have done that are a result of looking at what has happened to the car and hope to improve it.
I have tried to put parts from wrecks on it with less than 60,000 street miles and they look to last a couple seasons (and mine are long)!
Fact is, besides inner tierod joints, I haven't had anything really wear out that I can remember.
Non-Subaru parts are DMS and a 4 puck sprung clutch disk.
I use the stock engine, never seam welded the body, stock pads last two years, and (horrors!) rubber brake lines!
The skid plates are 1st rate and so is the cage.
Lots of things are "armored" but just with wraps of rubber or leather or plastic. Some bolt heads are protected by steel and the rockers have angle iron along the bottom.
I have a porta-power set up to push A-arms back to straight , a pair of replacements (just in case) and a large number of tie-wraps to reattach stuff that just "happened" to fall off.
With no crew and just a Legacy to tow with, there aren't many reasons to carry spares, I can't afford the weight.
If I need a part too badly, it can come off the wagon.
rz
For any rallyX I've done (four venues) just the car is fine.
No special tires or settings are needed.
For rally, I should write a book.
I have a million little cheap things I have done that are a result of looking at what has happened to the car and hope to improve it.
I have tried to put parts from wrecks on it with less than 60,000 street miles and they look to last a couple seasons (and mine are long)!
Fact is, besides inner tierod joints, I haven't had anything really wear out that I can remember.
Non-Subaru parts are DMS and a 4 puck sprung clutch disk.
I use the stock engine, never seam welded the body, stock pads last two years, and (horrors!) rubber brake lines!
The skid plates are 1st rate and so is the cage.
Lots of things are "armored" but just with wraps of rubber or leather or plastic. Some bolt heads are protected by steel and the rockers have angle iron along the bottom.
I have a porta-power set up to push A-arms back to straight , a pair of replacements (just in case) and a large number of tie-wraps to reattach stuff that just "happened" to fall off.
With no crew and just a Legacy to tow with, there aren't many reasons to carry spares, I can't afford the weight.
If I need a part too badly, it can come off the wagon.
rz
| patr | 07-09-2005 11:27 PM |
stop listening to people that aren't rallying and do listen to randy and others
I started by NOT buying a car and NOT "building" a car. I used my daily driver, left the car COMPLETELY stock (including the seats, etc) and just put in the minimum safety gear (cage, belts, 1 fire ext, 3 triangles and a useless first aid kit, 4 x $2 mudflaps), and went at it. Not even a skidplate (that was a mistake though, but you don't "need" it if you are careful). But you might need lights if its a night rally but dont get a mega expensive pod just bolt some big ass lights to the bumper.
If you really dont have money, do what I did. Dont waste money on a service rig. Drive the car to the rallies untli you actually get to the point where you deserve to traier it. Get a roof rack and haul your crap that you need up there and then find someone to slum off of and have them carry around a jerry can for you (that is all you need).
#1 . DO NOT SPEND MONEY ON THE CAR. Spend money going to events. Do not buy tires, do not buy anything. You dont need more than 4 really used and beat tires to start with. The donut is fine for a spare, I've used dozens of regular donuts as rally spares. Just get a skidplate and the minimum stuff needed to meet the rules.
#2. Aim to finish the rally, not go fast.
#3. When you finish a rally or two, if the stock shocks are beat up, get reasonably priced suspension (i.e. DMS is best bang for the buck), and be done with it, and only spend to make the car reliable, not fast.
#4. Do more rallies. Doing more rallies will make you faster than buying any part for your car, including: engine, diffs, turbo, 4wd, etc. etc.
If you do it this way, you will get way more set time per dollars spent than anything else I can think of.
I started by NOT buying a car and NOT "building" a car. I used my daily driver, left the car COMPLETELY stock (including the seats, etc) and just put in the minimum safety gear (cage, belts, 1 fire ext, 3 triangles and a useless first aid kit, 4 x $2 mudflaps), and went at it. Not even a skidplate (that was a mistake though, but you don't "need" it if you are careful). But you might need lights if its a night rally but dont get a mega expensive pod just bolt some big ass lights to the bumper.
If you really dont have money, do what I did. Dont waste money on a service rig. Drive the car to the rallies untli you actually get to the point where you deserve to traier it. Get a roof rack and haul your crap that you need up there and then find someone to slum off of and have them carry around a jerry can for you (that is all you need).
#1 . DO NOT SPEND MONEY ON THE CAR. Spend money going to events. Do not buy tires, do not buy anything. You dont need more than 4 really used and beat tires to start with. The donut is fine for a spare, I've used dozens of regular donuts as rally spares. Just get a skidplate and the minimum stuff needed to meet the rules.
#2. Aim to finish the rally, not go fast.
#3. When you finish a rally or two, if the stock shocks are beat up, get reasonably priced suspension (i.e. DMS is best bang for the buck), and be done with it, and only spend to make the car reliable, not fast.
#4. Do more rallies. Doing more rallies will make you faster than buying any part for your car, including: engine, diffs, turbo, 4wd, etc. etc.
If you do it this way, you will get way more set time per dollars spent than anything else I can think of.
| CombuSTIon | 07-10-2005 12:22 AM |
[QUOTE=patr]stop listening to people that aren't rallying and do listen to randy and others
I started by NOT buying a car and NOT "building" a car. I used my daily driver, left the car COMPLETELY stock (including the seats, etc) and just put in the minimum safety gear (cage, belts, 1 fire ext, 3 triangles and a useless first aid kit, 4 x $2 mudflaps), and went at it. Not even a skidplate (that was a mistake though, but you don't "need" it if you are careful). But you might need lights if its a night rally but dont get a mega expensive pod just bolt some big ass lights to the bumper.
If you really dont have money, do what I did. Dont waste money on a service rig. Drive the car to the rallies untli you actually get to the point where you deserve to traier it. Get a roof rack and haul your crap that you need up there and then find someone to slum off of and have them carry around a jerry can for you (that is all you need).
#1 . DO NOT SPEND MONEY ON THE CAR. Spend money going to events. Do not buy tires, do not buy anything. You dont need more than 4 really used and beat tires to start with. The donut is fine for a spare, I've used dozens of regular donuts as rally spares. Just get a skidplate and the minimum stuff needed to meet the rules.
#2. Aim to finish the rally, not go fast.
#3. When you finish a rally or two, if the stock shocks are beat up, get reasonably priced suspension (i.e. DMS is best bang for the buck), and be done with it, and only spend to make the car reliable, not fast.
#4. Do more rallies. Doing more rallies will make you faster than buying any part for your car, including: engine, diffs, turbo, 4wd, etc. etc.
If you do it this way, you will get way more set time per dollars spent than anything else I can think of.[/QUOTE]
Agreed...
Don't drop a bunch of cash into it; the car is only as good as the driver, and the driver is only as good as his seat time and experience allows him to be.
Try a Rally-X or two and see if it's even for you; if you enjoy it then keep at it. Once you begin doing well you can then start pushing to sponsors and other people to help you pay for the better toys; just jumping in with a super car is just a recipe for trouble.
Learn to drive in a beater first, after all in the end it's about having fun; not many of us could ever hope to be Mr. Richard here or Seb. Loeb or anything; if you can drive well, have fun, and get some sponsors and maybe even come close to breaking even at the end of the season then consider yourself a winner. ;)
I started by NOT buying a car and NOT "building" a car. I used my daily driver, left the car COMPLETELY stock (including the seats, etc) and just put in the minimum safety gear (cage, belts, 1 fire ext, 3 triangles and a useless first aid kit, 4 x $2 mudflaps), and went at it. Not even a skidplate (that was a mistake though, but you don't "need" it if you are careful). But you might need lights if its a night rally but dont get a mega expensive pod just bolt some big ass lights to the bumper.
If you really dont have money, do what I did. Dont waste money on a service rig. Drive the car to the rallies untli you actually get to the point where you deserve to traier it. Get a roof rack and haul your crap that you need up there and then find someone to slum off of and have them carry around a jerry can for you (that is all you need).
#1 . DO NOT SPEND MONEY ON THE CAR. Spend money going to events. Do not buy tires, do not buy anything. You dont need more than 4 really used and beat tires to start with. The donut is fine for a spare, I've used dozens of regular donuts as rally spares. Just get a skidplate and the minimum stuff needed to meet the rules.
#2. Aim to finish the rally, not go fast.
#3. When you finish a rally or two, if the stock shocks are beat up, get reasonably priced suspension (i.e. DMS is best bang for the buck), and be done with it, and only spend to make the car reliable, not fast.
#4. Do more rallies. Doing more rallies will make you faster than buying any part for your car, including: engine, diffs, turbo, 4wd, etc. etc.
If you do it this way, you will get way more set time per dollars spent than anything else I can think of.[/QUOTE]
Agreed...
Don't drop a bunch of cash into it; the car is only as good as the driver, and the driver is only as good as his seat time and experience allows him to be.
Try a Rally-X or two and see if it's even for you; if you enjoy it then keep at it. Once you begin doing well you can then start pushing to sponsors and other people to help you pay for the better toys; just jumping in with a super car is just a recipe for trouble.
Learn to drive in a beater first, after all in the end it's about having fun; not many of us could ever hope to be Mr. Richard here or Seb. Loeb or anything; if you can drive well, have fun, and get some sponsors and maybe even come close to breaking even at the end of the season then consider yourself a winner. ;)
| humara | 07-10-2005 02:40 AM |
rallyusa school
�
�
this is a great thread.
fwiw, i've only done a couple of rallyX events but for learning the basics of rallying, the class up in ridgecrest in february was great
[url]http://www.rallyusa.com/CRS%20School/crs_school.html[/url]
there are ALOT of signs you need to know in rallying. checkpoints, timing things and all sorts of other technical details that would be good to know. the rallyusa class taught that and also some basic driving techniques.
rallyx events are fun. the ridgecrest event was great. the gcrally crew events in corona are good too, but there are many objects in the course that could seriously ruin your day. ie cement barriers and random barn like building. the jean,NV rallyx events also look cool. the less things to hit the better.
fwiw, i've only done a couple of rallyX events but for learning the basics of rallying, the class up in ridgecrest in february was great
[url]http://www.rallyusa.com/CRS%20School/crs_school.html[/url]
there are ALOT of signs you need to know in rallying. checkpoints, timing things and all sorts of other technical details that would be good to know. the rallyusa class taught that and also some basic driving techniques.
rallyx events are fun. the ridgecrest event was great. the gcrally crew events in corona are good too, but there are many objects in the course that could seriously ruin your day. ie cement barriers and random barn like building. the jean,NV rallyx events also look cool. the less things to hit the better.
| Sean | 07-10-2005 01:22 PM |
[QUOTE=patr]stop listening to people that aren't rallying and do listen to randy and others[/QUOTE]
Except me! ;) I've been building a car for three years, my first stage rally will be Maine Forest this year, and I'm the poster child for Murphy's Law and why not to build your first car. I've been tearing it up rallycrossing, autocrossing, and ice racing the car but I'm still waiting to run a stage rally.
Long story short (June 2002 through the present):
[list][*]Bought 1996 Impreza 2.2 L[*]Daily drove and planned to slowly build up from daily driver to rally car[*]Repainted to get rid of all the body nasties[*]Ordered Moriss Dampers suspension[*]Still daily driving[*]Got caged (quoted 2 weeks, took 3 months)[*]4 months later, no suspension[*]6 months later, no suspension, company filed chapter 11, filed fraud complaint, eventually got money back[*]Still daily driving[*]Ordered DMS 50s[*]Mostly finished preparing car[*]Waited month and a half for DMS 50s to clear customs[*]DMS 50s installed[*]Went to get logbooked[*]Failed logbook due to cage defect two months before Maine Forest 2004[*]Still daily driving[*]Brought car back up to cage builder for repair (quoted 2 days)[*]Car sat at cage builder for 4 months due to family issues[*]Bought Grandmother's 1990 Legacy L Wagon as daily driver[*]Got third party involved, cage finally finished[*]Got logbooked[*]Winter set in, procrastinated, didn't touch car until ice racing season[*]Found out new Rally America rules prohibit Novices from starting in a PGT car; scrambled to get Novice exemption[*]Got [url=http://www.finertouchauto.com/]body shop sponsorship[/url] to strip and repaint over my crappy paintjob[*]Got a few other [url=http://www.arcamedia.com]minor sponsorships[/url][*]Completed ice racing season[*]Rebuilding DMS 50s[*]Scrambling now to finish nickel and dime preparations for Maine Forest (mounting brackets, etc.)[/list]
So 3 years later and 200% more than I was planning to spend I have a rally car. I went against everyone's "don't build your first car" advice because my excuse was I purchased the car as a daily driver and was going to slowly build it up. [url=http://www.rallynotes.com/]Kris Marciniak's[/url] experience has basically been identical to mine (same cage builder, started building cars at the same time).
Am I disappointed I haven't run a stage rally yet? Hell yeah. Have I learned an amazing amount of information about builder cars? Hell yeah. Would I have done it differently hindsight 20/20? Hell yeah; I would have started with a pre-built GTI or something.
[url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/][img]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/pics/lil.gif[/img][/url] [url=http://www.clutchdrop.com/]NESIC Web Site[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/]Trunkmonkey FAQ[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/gallery/Trunkmonkeys/]Trunkmonkeys in Action[/url]
Except me! ;) I've been building a car for three years, my first stage rally will be Maine Forest this year, and I'm the poster child for Murphy's Law and why not to build your first car. I've been tearing it up rallycrossing, autocrossing, and ice racing the car but I'm still waiting to run a stage rally.
Long story short (June 2002 through the present):
[list][*]Bought 1996 Impreza 2.2 L[*]Daily drove and planned to slowly build up from daily driver to rally car[*]Repainted to get rid of all the body nasties[*]Ordered Moriss Dampers suspension[*]Still daily driving[*]Got caged (quoted 2 weeks, took 3 months)[*]4 months later, no suspension[*]6 months later, no suspension, company filed chapter 11, filed fraud complaint, eventually got money back[*]Still daily driving[*]Ordered DMS 50s[*]Mostly finished preparing car[*]Waited month and a half for DMS 50s to clear customs[*]DMS 50s installed[*]Went to get logbooked[*]Failed logbook due to cage defect two months before Maine Forest 2004[*]Still daily driving[*]Brought car back up to cage builder for repair (quoted 2 days)[*]Car sat at cage builder for 4 months due to family issues[*]Bought Grandmother's 1990 Legacy L Wagon as daily driver[*]Got third party involved, cage finally finished[*]Got logbooked[*]Winter set in, procrastinated, didn't touch car until ice racing season[*]Found out new Rally America rules prohibit Novices from starting in a PGT car; scrambled to get Novice exemption[*]Got [url=http://www.finertouchauto.com/]body shop sponsorship[/url] to strip and repaint over my crappy paintjob[*]Got a few other [url=http://www.arcamedia.com]minor sponsorships[/url][*]Completed ice racing season[*]Rebuilding DMS 50s[*]Scrambling now to finish nickel and dime preparations for Maine Forest (mounting brackets, etc.)[/list]
So 3 years later and 200% more than I was planning to spend I have a rally car. I went against everyone's "don't build your first car" advice because my excuse was I purchased the car as a daily driver and was going to slowly build it up. [url=http://www.rallynotes.com/]Kris Marciniak's[/url] experience has basically been identical to mine (same cage builder, started building cars at the same time).
Am I disappointed I haven't run a stage rally yet? Hell yeah. Have I learned an amazing amount of information about builder cars? Hell yeah. Would I have done it differently hindsight 20/20? Hell yeah; I would have started with a pre-built GTI or something.
[url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/][img]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/pics/lil.gif[/img][/url] [url=http://www.clutchdrop.com/]NESIC Web Site[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/]Trunkmonkey FAQ[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/gallery/Trunkmonkeys/]Trunkmonkeys in Action[/url]
| FaastLegacy | 07-10-2005 09:58 PM |
[QUOTE=Protege Menace]you might be better off getting a G2 car, since they are making ruels that all n00bs have to start in G2.
also, its a good way to learn before moving up the HP ladder[/QUOTE]
I thought there was going to be some kind of exemption for low, low, low powered AWD Subarus? :confused:
I like Patrick's ideas, that's truely the way to do it low buck and I'll prolly do something like that with my current daily driver when I get something else to drive to school and work.
also, its a good way to learn before moving up the HP ladder[/QUOTE]
I thought there was going to be some kind of exemption for low, low, low powered AWD Subarus? :confused:
I like Patrick's ideas, that's truely the way to do it low buck and I'll prolly do something like that with my current daily driver when I get something else to drive to school and work.
| Sean | 07-10-2005 10:57 PM |
[QUOTE=FaastLegacy]I thought there was going to be some kind of exemption for low, low, low powered AWD Subarus? :confused:[/QUOTE]
I haven't seen an official announcement regarding low-power Subarus being allowed for Novices yet. Then again, I stopped looking after I got my Novice exemption for my Impreza 2.2 L. ;)
I was given the Novice exemption after I sent in a racing resume of five years of autocross, four years of rallycross, four years of ice racing, two years of track, two Team O'Neil Winter schools, and one Team O'Neil two-day Advanced Rally School. That and the fact that I started building the car in 2002.
[url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/][img]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/pics/lil.gif[/img][/url] [url=http://www.clutchdrop.com/]NESIC Web Site[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/]Trunkmonkey FAQ[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/gallery/Trunkmonkeys/]Trunkmonkeys in Action[/url]
I haven't seen an official announcement regarding low-power Subarus being allowed for Novices yet. Then again, I stopped looking after I got my Novice exemption for my Impreza 2.2 L. ;)
I was given the Novice exemption after I sent in a racing resume of five years of autocross, four years of rallycross, four years of ice racing, two years of track, two Team O'Neil Winter schools, and one Team O'Neil two-day Advanced Rally School. That and the fact that I started building the car in 2002.
[url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/][img]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/pics/lil.gif[/img][/url] [url=http://www.clutchdrop.com/]NESIC Web Site[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/]Trunkmonkey FAQ[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/gallery/Trunkmonkeys/]Trunkmonkeys in Action[/url]
| thechickencow | 07-10-2005 11:37 PM |
I don't think prepping a daily driver is necessicarily a bad idea, but if you consider that the cost of the shell is only a small fraction of the overall cost it may not be a horrible idea to reconsider buying something else. To each their own though, I just know that I've run a lot more rallies since I bought my car than I would've at this point if I'd have built my own.
Jay
#583 G5
[url]www.step2racing.com[/url]
Jay
#583 G5
[url]www.step2racing.com[/url]
| outback2.5HO | 07-11-2005 03:23 AM |
Dave, Randy and Pat are all spot on..
Seat time is key to being a solid rally driver, period. You don't get the feel for *driving* the car just from rally games (maybe driving lines). LOL.. Some people can drive (natural talent), and can become better drivers over time, others should just co-drive, crew or spectate. Anyone that wants to be seriously involved in rally should at least try one of those on the way to saving for their first rally car.
I also firmly believe in the "more with less" theory.. When you are kicking AWD Turbo arse in a GTI or Saab 99 (and there are guys that do in the NW), you will be able to use a better car to it's full potential. You will also get an idea of what spares you need, crew, trailer (or not), and the level of car prep it takes to have a solid rally car. It's a steep learning curve. Since many of us won't be as lucky a Pat in our first few events, it's a good idea to have at least access to a trailer.. It's been bad rally karma for us anytime we don't have one (off, mechanical, whatever)..
Sean's story is a good one..but his seat/ mounting brackets should have been done when the cage got prepped. That's the time to get that done (when the car is stripped). That's not a jab, but an FYI...But no matter how "prepped" you think you are for an event, you 'll always find more stuff to do to the car in the 23rd hour..
That's just rally...
Seat time is key to being a solid rally driver, period. You don't get the feel for *driving* the car just from rally games (maybe driving lines). LOL.. Some people can drive (natural talent), and can become better drivers over time, others should just co-drive, crew or spectate. Anyone that wants to be seriously involved in rally should at least try one of those on the way to saving for their first rally car.
I also firmly believe in the "more with less" theory.. When you are kicking AWD Turbo arse in a GTI or Saab 99 (and there are guys that do in the NW), you will be able to use a better car to it's full potential. You will also get an idea of what spares you need, crew, trailer (or not), and the level of car prep it takes to have a solid rally car. It's a steep learning curve. Since many of us won't be as lucky a Pat in our first few events, it's a good idea to have at least access to a trailer.. It's been bad rally karma for us anytime we don't have one (off, mechanical, whatever)..
Sean's story is a good one..but his seat/ mounting brackets should have been done when the cage got prepped. That's the time to get that done (when the car is stripped). That's not a jab, but an FYI...But no matter how "prepped" you think you are for an event, you 'll always find more stuff to do to the car in the 23rd hour..
That's just rally...
| kwh29 | 07-11-2005 01:52 PM |
Listen to Randy, Patr, etc.. The know what they are talking about.
I've been co-driving for a few locals here in the SE and have been having an absolute blast. Co-driving is a lot harder than it looks -- there is a lot to worry about beyond reading the notes (and reading the notes well is quite difficult in its own right) My normal driver bought a car off e-bay and has faced a bunch of challenges sorting out the odd decisions the previous owner made. If you buy a pre-built car be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the car has a sensible electrical system and records for replacement of consumables such as CV's/driveshafts, shocks, and normal maintenance type things. It seems that hacked electricals are the most common problem with used rally cars, especially club level ones.
--Kevin H.
I've been co-driving for a few locals here in the SE and have been having an absolute blast. Co-driving is a lot harder than it looks -- there is a lot to worry about beyond reading the notes (and reading the notes well is quite difficult in its own right) My normal driver bought a car off e-bay and has faced a bunch of challenges sorting out the odd decisions the previous owner made. If you buy a pre-built car be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the car has a sensible electrical system and records for replacement of consumables such as CV's/driveshafts, shocks, and normal maintenance type things. It seems that hacked electricals are the most common problem with used rally cars, especially club level ones.
--Kevin H.
| randy zimmer | 07-11-2005 04:22 PM |
"I thought there was going to be some kind of exemption for low, low, low powered AWD Subarus?"
in RA?
If it were a rule, there wouldn't be a need to call it an exemption would there?
There may be, contact Mike H and ask.
He's there to help.
The more you have contact and KNOW things before you start out, the better for everyone.
rz
in RA?
If it were a rule, there wouldn't be a need to call it an exemption would there?
There may be, contact Mike H and ask.
He's there to help.
The more you have contact and KNOW things before you start out, the better for everyone.
rz
| Chromer | 07-11-2005 04:51 PM |
IIRC there was some discussion about a spec subie class built around the 2.2's or the NA 2.5's, but I gather it was just internet forum blather. As far as I can tell, Subaru was neither involved nor even approached.
So wait, are you guys saying I don't need a waaay beechin' motor and a yooper close ratio box with a short final drive to go rallying? Boy, next you'll tell me I don't need to learn Norweigan/Swedish/Finnish either. (The strut tubes he builds do look pretty nice though. Priced nice too. Yes, I asked.)
So wait, are you guys saying I don't need a waaay beechin' motor and a yooper close ratio box with a short final drive to go rallying? Boy, next you'll tell me I don't need to learn Norweigan/Swedish/Finnish either. (The strut tubes he builds do look pretty nice though. Priced nice too. Yes, I asked.)
| greg donovan | 07-11-2005 11:58 PM |
[QUOTE=Chromer]IIRC there was some discussion about a spec subie class built around the 2.2's or the NA 2.5's, but I gather it was just internet forum blather. As far as I can tell, Subaru was neither involved nor even approached.
So wait, are you guys saying I don't need a waaay beechin' motor and a yooper close ratio box with a short final drive to go rallying? Boy, next you'll tell me I don't need to learn Norweigan/Swedish/Finnish either. (The strut tubes he builds do look pretty nice though. Priced nice too. Yes, I asked.)[/QUOTE]
it wasnt internet blather. it was a discusion started by randy and myself on Special stage. there are several cars out there that would qualify but no, it is not an official class.
patr even has a very good package for prepping a subaru for rally. the focus is on durability and safety.
So wait, are you guys saying I don't need a waaay beechin' motor and a yooper close ratio box with a short final drive to go rallying? Boy, next you'll tell me I don't need to learn Norweigan/Swedish/Finnish either. (The strut tubes he builds do look pretty nice though. Priced nice too. Yes, I asked.)[/QUOTE]
it wasnt internet blather. it was a discusion started by randy and myself on Special stage. there are several cars out there that would qualify but no, it is not an official class.
patr even has a very good package for prepping a subaru for rally. the focus is on durability and safety.
| Chaste Automotive | 07-12-2005 05:51 AM |
Pat is right spend money on events not the car, my first rally car (still have it) was only 3500 dollars and had a few spares I picked a few at the junkyard it is great. But spend the time on going and running events when you are ready get a better car. Now some people may disagree with me on this but go run stages RallyX is not as representative of stage rallying as many would like to think, in California we are lucky to have a lot of desert to go and learn car control on and I think you can learn just as muc hby going out on your own and testing. Now people can go back and forth on this as muc has they want but for dollar spent Team Oneil is not a bad deal. You will probably spend more time driving there then at three or four rallyx events or even a stage rally. Good investment and a good way to get seat time and learn car control.
| PA04STI | 07-12-2005 06:41 AM |
Found you a car little pricey +shipping will kill you but would be sweet:
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=98063&item=4560748639&rd=1[/url]
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=98063&item=4560748639&rd=1[/url]
| RB5 Clone | 07-12-2005 11:04 AM |
:confused: :confused: :confused: :huh:
A rompin stompin full dress Group N STi is most categorically definitely competely totally 110% NOT the way to "get started in rally racing." !! This is not to mention dumping $40k-60k into a Gp N car of uncertain origin and history that's for sale in Cyprus fer cripesake.
The gearbox alone on this STi costs more than what you should spend on a decent starter car.
PAO4 pliz read the rest of this thread to get the drift.
Dave G
A rompin stompin full dress Group N STi is most categorically definitely competely totally 110% NOT the way to "get started in rally racing." !! This is not to mention dumping $40k-60k into a Gp N car of uncertain origin and history that's for sale in Cyprus fer cripesake.
The gearbox alone on this STi costs more than what you should spend on a decent starter car.
PAO4 pliz read the rest of this thread to get the drift.
Dave G
| randy zimmer | 07-12-2005 06:16 PM |
chromer,
the spec subie thing is informal and would be a good cheap way to compare times between similar, affordable cars that would not need all the stuff that a 2wd has to have.
JohnV means well but that 2wd stuff is just fragile and expensive compared to what a subie can do stock.
chaste (sorry, forget your name),
What I like about solo and rallyx seat time is learning a pace.
You get a short drive (that you - hopefully - can remember) and get to compare times with different techniques.
When you get to a stage, you need to have an idea what works and what doesn't because by the time you find out your time, you can't remember why you were fast or slow.
Sure doesn't compare to a stage but instant feedback is good.
rz
the spec subie thing is informal and would be a good cheap way to compare times between similar, affordable cars that would not need all the stuff that a 2wd has to have.
JohnV means well but that 2wd stuff is just fragile and expensive compared to what a subie can do stock.
chaste (sorry, forget your name),
What I like about solo and rallyx seat time is learning a pace.
You get a short drive (that you - hopefully - can remember) and get to compare times with different techniques.
When you get to a stage, you need to have an idea what works and what doesn't because by the time you find out your time, you can't remember why you were fast or slow.
Sure doesn't compare to a stage but instant feedback is good.
rz
| RRR-K2 | 07-12-2005 10:16 PM |
[QUOTE=randy zimmer]chromer,
What I like about solo and rallyx seat time is learning a pace.
You get a short drive (that you - hopefully - can remember) and get to compare times with different techniques.
rz[/QUOTE]
And the cross-over from those to actually "Performance/Stage Rallying," with a similar concept-design as Auto&Rally-X, are RallySprints.
RallySprints are run on roads that are just like "real" rally stages, but shorter (usually 1-3 miles). The shortness of the "stage" gives you the chance to compare times and techniques in a truer "performance rally" setting. That is, of course, if the organizers actually post the times throughout the day... otherwise you can't remember what you did on which run, which basically makes the learning aspect of it worthless. :furious: (Unless you happen to have in-car, but even then it's still not as good as being able to think about it immediately after the fact.)
Matt Kennedy
[URL=http://www.RockyRoadRacing.com][U][COLOR=DarkRed]www.RockyRoadRacing.com[/COLOR][/U][/URL]
What I like about solo and rallyx seat time is learning a pace.
You get a short drive (that you - hopefully - can remember) and get to compare times with different techniques.
rz[/QUOTE]
And the cross-over from those to actually "Performance/Stage Rallying," with a similar concept-design as Auto&Rally-X, are RallySprints.
RallySprints are run on roads that are just like "real" rally stages, but shorter (usually 1-3 miles). The shortness of the "stage" gives you the chance to compare times and techniques in a truer "performance rally" setting. That is, of course, if the organizers actually post the times throughout the day... otherwise you can't remember what you did on which run, which basically makes the learning aspect of it worthless. :furious: (Unless you happen to have in-car, but even then it's still not as good as being able to think about it immediately after the fact.)
Matt Kennedy
[URL=http://www.RockyRoadRacing.com][U][COLOR=DarkRed]www.RockyRoadRacing.com[/COLOR][/U][/URL]
| PA04STI | 07-14-2005 03:01 AM |
[QUOTE=RB5 Clone]:confused: :confused: :confused: :huh:
A rompin stompin full dress Group N STi is most categorically definitely competely totally 110% NOT the way to "get started in rally racing." !! This is not to mention dumping $40k-60k into a Gp N car of uncertain origin and history that's for sale in Cyprus fer cripesake.
The gearbox alone on this STi costs more than what you should spend on a decent starter car.
PAO4 pliz read the rest of this thread to get the drift.
Dave G[/QUOTE]
Yeah I read its called a joke you know sarcasim... :rolleyes:
A rompin stompin full dress Group N STi is most categorically definitely competely totally 110% NOT the way to "get started in rally racing." !! This is not to mention dumping $40k-60k into a Gp N car of uncertain origin and history that's for sale in Cyprus fer cripesake.
The gearbox alone on this STi costs more than what you should spend on a decent starter car.
PAO4 pliz read the rest of this thread to get the drift.
Dave G[/QUOTE]
Yeah I read its called a joke you know sarcasim... :rolleyes:
| gravelcrewx2 | 07-14-2005 03:17 AM |
$45 entry fee + a helmet + a car with black tires = GCrallyX!
You are in Pasadena and we are the closest solution to/for you!
Next event: July 30th
You are in Pasadena and we are the closest solution to/for you!
Next event: July 30th
| RB5 Clone | 07-14-2005 08:50 AM |
joke sarcasm truth, who's to know?
�
�
[QUOTE=PA04STI]Yeah I read its called a joke you know sarcasim... :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
...heh, musta missed the row of smileys.
was partly trying to deflect interest in Cyprus Gp N car, it's exactly what we're looking for in our next ride.
all it requires is application of cubic money.
DG
...heh, musta missed the row of smileys.
was partly trying to deflect interest in Cyprus Gp N car, it's exactly what we're looking for in our next ride.
all it requires is application of cubic money.
DG
| JC_595 | 07-14-2005 01:45 PM |
maybe you guys shoulda bought a Red 04...
| PA04STI | 07-14-2005 04:33 PM |
[QUOTE=RB5 Clone]...heh, musta missed the row of smileys.
was partly trying to deflect interest in Cyprus Gp N car, it's exactly what we're looking for in our next ride.
all it requires is application of cubic money.
DG[/QUOTE]
Is a sweet car...Yeah the application & a boat or plane to get it here.
Matt
was partly trying to deflect interest in Cyprus Gp N car, it's exactly what we're looking for in our next ride.
all it requires is application of cubic money.
DG[/QUOTE]
Is a sweet car...Yeah the application & a boat or plane to get it here.
Matt
| dbottles | 07-15-2005 04:09 PM |
Few thoughts
�
�
My first rally car was my wife's daily driver - I was highly motivated not to crash it so she could get to work on Monday. Not a bad way to start but it does not work out for the long term.
A few thoughts:
You can do like Pat Richard did or you can go to rally school to get your first expriances. I spent about $2800 for 12 hrs of 1 on 1 seat time in a AWD turbo car, that is a good value I would need to do 6 events to get that much seat time. Both ways focuse on develouping the driver and that is most important.
I find rally-x useless at this point of my driving - it has very little to do with what it is like on a stage at speed. It might be a good step for new drivers but did not exist when I started so hard to say. I would rather go back to rally school.
It is always more fun to do well with the little then do poor with lots.
I have the most fun when I am getting a lot out of the car. My first car was an Open class AWD Turbo car and I never had that much fun driving it as I was so far with in the limits of the car. My next car was a $3000 (that I spent another $3k on prior to ralling) golf and I had a good time, such a good time I decided to do my first build and I built a killer Golf. I now take my Golf out and have a fantastic time really pushing it it. I am one of the guys beating most of the AWD cars here in the NW.
When you are ready to fight for the win, competive cars are very expensive. People are not winning in 3,000 golfs or for the most part (Randy Zimmer excepted) doing well in $15,000 Subie's - no they are spending a lot more than that on the car.
Please do not get a car you can not afford to run, it is more fun to run a $6000 golf then look at a $30,000 Subrat in the car park.
I would sell my Golf for around $15k but there is also a good one for about half that out there and one could likely win the national Gp2 championship in it, unless I decided to run my car, in witch case you would learn what the extra 7k does for performance.
I have never seen a rally car worth owning selling for less than $6,000. Or put in other words, I have never seen a $3000 rally car that did not need $3000 worth of stuff.
I just bought a Legacy GT street car with the 2.5T in it - these subrats are fast. If you can afford it the Subie is a very good platform to build into a rally car.
Good luck.
Derek
my web site: 11tenths com
A few thoughts:
You can do like Pat Richard did or you can go to rally school to get your first expriances. I spent about $2800 for 12 hrs of 1 on 1 seat time in a AWD turbo car, that is a good value I would need to do 6 events to get that much seat time. Both ways focuse on develouping the driver and that is most important.
I find rally-x useless at this point of my driving - it has very little to do with what it is like on a stage at speed. It might be a good step for new drivers but did not exist when I started so hard to say. I would rather go back to rally school.
It is always more fun to do well with the little then do poor with lots.
I have the most fun when I am getting a lot out of the car. My first car was an Open class AWD Turbo car and I never had that much fun driving it as I was so far with in the limits of the car. My next car was a $3000 (that I spent another $3k on prior to ralling) golf and I had a good time, such a good time I decided to do my first build and I built a killer Golf. I now take my Golf out and have a fantastic time really pushing it it. I am one of the guys beating most of the AWD cars here in the NW.
When you are ready to fight for the win, competive cars are very expensive. People are not winning in 3,000 golfs or for the most part (Randy Zimmer excepted) doing well in $15,000 Subie's - no they are spending a lot more than that on the car.
Please do not get a car you can not afford to run, it is more fun to run a $6000 golf then look at a $30,000 Subrat in the car park.
I would sell my Golf for around $15k but there is also a good one for about half that out there and one could likely win the national Gp2 championship in it, unless I decided to run my car, in witch case you would learn what the extra 7k does for performance.
I have never seen a rally car worth owning selling for less than $6,000. Or put in other words, I have never seen a $3000 rally car that did not need $3000 worth of stuff.
I just bought a Legacy GT street car with the 2.5T in it - these subrats are fast. If you can afford it the Subie is a very good platform to build into a rally car.
Good luck.
Derek
my web site: 11tenths com
| El Kabong | 07-26-2005 03:47 PM |
bump for a good thread with lots of good links/info, thanks all!
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