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Help! I need to get some 12k springs but part 1

DrBiggly 02-01-2005 10:59 AM

Help! I need to get some 12k springs but
I need to get some 12k springs, but Tein has a 3 month wait for the blasted things coming from Japan. Sorry, no FATF "overnight from Japan" silliness here.

I know there are a couple of guys with Tein setups that had 12k springs last year, but where did you guys get them? I'd be willing to do an Eibach spring of the correct height and length however I'm not sure of the best place to pick those up from.

So where do you folks buy your race springs? :)
mofugga 02-01-2005 11:32 AM

[QUOTE]The fastest STX car[/QUOTE]
is your's right??? why change much?
DrBiggly 02-01-2005 11:34 AM

[QUOTE=mofugga]is your's right??? why change much?[/QUOTE]
It was on the docket to be changed before I bought the car. I'm just continuing development and not just sitting on my laurels. The car wasn't fully developed, but just happened to be fast enough last year. :)
TyrannoSullyRex 02-01-2005 11:36 AM

[QUOTE=DrBiggly]So where do you folks buy your race springs? :)[/QUOTE]

[url=http://www.pitstopusa.com/]the cheapest, and fast[/url]
trhoppe 02-01-2005 12:02 PM

Ahhh, but the Tein springs are a slightly different diameter then the Eibach springs ;) The beauty of JDM. I don't remember exactly what the difference in diameter was, but call Tein and ask. The Eibach stuff is 2.5"

-Tom
TyrannoSullyRex 02-01-2005 12:26 PM

Probably 60mm or 62mm, 2.5" = 63.5mm
trhoppe 02-01-2005 12:30 PM

Hmmm, 1.5 or 3mm aint that much. I just wonder if everything would still seat correctly on the spring perches.

-Tom
DrBiggly 02-01-2005 12:42 PM

Tein springs are 65mm for the inner diameter; I did find that much out. :)
DrBiggly 02-01-2005 12:46 PM

I was hoping that some folks with Teins could tell me where they got their 12k springs. *cough* KC *cough* ;)
WJM 02-01-2005 12:54 PM

2.5590551181102362204724409448819 inches is 65MM.

Might be an issue of inside clearance on the regular 2.5inchers....but...if someone's got some laying around, doesnt hurt to try it out....Fred might have some...aka Kevin A...
DrBiggly 02-01-2005 01:44 PM

[QUOTE=WJM]2.5590551181102362204724409448819 inches is 65MM.

Might be an issue of inside clearance on the regular 2.5inchers....but...if someone's got some laying around, doesnt hurt to try it out....Fred might have some...aka Kevin A...[/QUOTE]
That's an idea, but instead of taking the springs off the car I do have some other Tein springs lying around (different rates) that I could directly compare with an Eibach spring as far as size is concerned. Thing is, the real test would be putting it on the shock itself and seeing if it fits.
Corey 02-01-2005 01:49 PM

I have a bunch of Tein springs sitting around that I used to test... not sure if I went all the way up to 12K though... I'll check when I get home. Also, I think mine were 200mm length... is that what you are looking for? Do you know what length you need?

Corey #89 STS
DrBiggly 02-01-2005 02:01 PM

Corey,
Thanks for the help! I need a 6" length, which according to Tein is 155mm. I believe I have something along the lines of a 170mm spring on there now? It was about 6.5" when I measured it under the car recently. If you could just see what you have, I'd greatly appreciate it. :)

The conversion is a touch over 25mm : 1" (I forget exactly, I just round it off like kg/mm and lb/inch to get close) :)

Tein actually makes the spring, but it's "race only" and is "not stocked" so it would take 3 months to get them from Japan. I'm not interested in putting these blasted things on in May; I want to do it more like in the next few weeks.

Sully:
I did check out their website that you listed (awesome site by the way!) and called them. They then referred me to 2 different folks, none of which had the springs I needed. Then I called Eibach, who confirms that they make the spring I want in a 2.5" ID, but I'm not sure that what I want will quite fit since it appears to be a difference of 1.5mm (Eibachs would be 1.5mm smaller in diameter.)

Has anyone tried Eibachs on Teins before by chance? :)
omahasubaru 02-01-2005 02:06 PM

[QUOTE=trhoppe]Ahhh, but the Tein springs are a slightly different diameter then the Eibach springs ;) The beauty of JDM. I don't remember exactly what the difference in diameter was, but call Tein and ask. The Eibach stuff is 2.5"

-Tom[/QUOTE]
Tein is 70mm springs. The #1 reason I got rid of my Tein coilovers was this factor. Not must for availability in springs and their heights weren't even that close to non-Tein springs. Height isn't a bit issue, but diameter is. Tein never offered the rates I wanted which was another factor, but I was in the .5 rate ranges.

Eibach has recently started to offer some 70mm springs, however they're about double the 2.5" cost IIRC.

Good luck. Check out Eibach's site and pull up their ERS section .pdf with all their springs, should have some info on 70mm ones.

BTW 2.5" Eibach or Hypercoil springs don't fit on Tein Flex coilovers, I know that for sure :banana:
DrBiggly 02-01-2005 02:13 PM

I have Tein HAs. I was told (after a call back from Dale @ [url]www.boxer4racing.com[/url] ) that Tein informed him of them being 65mm springs.

The flex may be totally different, who knows. :)
makofoto 02-01-2005 02:23 PM

I'm sure you are correct ... even though Tein told me a few days ago that they had just received a container full of stuff and thought that they had "everything." I'm surprised that they don't have it in their racing line of light weight springs?

I was there yesterday talking to their japanese Tech Nakai-san. He thought that I would end up with 12/12 springs after my LSD test this weekend. I'm going to have to look into the availability of those 12K springs myself ...

I think we finally got down to why they recommend stiffer springs in the front of their Autocross cars. Their Gymkhana courses are slower then our Autocrosses. They have first gear corners ... and use their handbrakes for the tight corners. With stiffer springs in the back, Nakai-san, who raced Gymkhana in Japan, said the rear end would skip and skitter. They also do a lot of deep trail braking ... so they use more weight transfer to get the rear end out.

Nakai-san also mentioned that it's important to use the longer springs in the back ... shorter in the front. That the Green race springs were better at turn in, but "trickier" otherwise. He said most drivers preferred the Black street springs. He had a bit of trouble explaining what he meant. What's cool is that he wants to go auto crossing with us ... so he will hopefully develop a better understanding of what we want. Could help all of us out ... :-)
omahasubaru 02-01-2005 02:39 PM

[QUOTE=DrBiggly]I have Tein HAs. I was told (after a call back from Dale @ [url]www.boxer4racing.com[/url] ) that Tein informed him of them being 65mm springs.

The flex may be totally different, who knows. :)[/QUOTE]
Dale should know. I went of the paperwork that came with my Flex's as well as what is on Tein's website.

If it's 65mm then you're really screwed as I don't know anyone who makes springs in that diameter.
crofrog 02-01-2005 03:03 PM

[QUOTE=DrBiggly]
The conversion is a touch over 25mm : 1" (I forget exactly, I just round it off like kg/mm and lb/inch to get close) :)
[/QUOTE]


25.4 mm = 1 inch

When in doubt let google do the math for you.

Just do a search like this 6inch in mm and the google calulator wil do the rest telling you 6 in = 152.4 millimeters.

Is it 65mm ID or OD? If it is 65mm ID that is only only 0.069in off from the 2-5/8 ID springs pit stop usa sells.

unfortunatly they only offer them in 4,7,8,10,12,14 inch lengths
Cheers,
Chris
DrBiggly 02-01-2005 03:27 PM

65mm ID (not OD.)

The search continues....
crofrog 02-01-2005 03:44 PM

[QUOTE=DrBiggly]65mm ID (not OD.)

The search continues....[/QUOTE]

Thats pretty damn close the springs I where talking about where 2-5/8 in id. Although I still guess they are the wrong length, maybe just get the 7in springs and cut a coil?

They are also bigger by the .0659 inchs so it should not be a to small issue and I don't see 6/100's of an inch making a difference, but maybe it could

They where only like 40-50 dollars a spring too, so if it works like ass, you aren't out to much
trhoppe 02-01-2005 03:46 PM

I would get the 7in springs. You do have some room left to go lower on the spring perch. You also are talking only increasing the rate, 100lbs/in to 650 from 550. With 600lbs sitting on the spring, the 550lbs spring will compress 1.09in while the 650lb spring will compress 0.92in. You will only have to turn the collar down 0.17 or 3/16 of an inch to retain the same rear ride height.

-Tom
trhoppe 02-01-2005 03:52 PM

[quote]That the Green race springs were better at turn in, but "trickier" otherwise. He said most drivers preferred the Black street springs[/quote] A spring is a spring. The only difference could be is that their green springs could be non linear rate. I would stick to the linear rate black springs.

-Tom
crofrog 02-01-2005 03:56 PM

Looking at the website again. You can only get the 7in springs in 500lb/in (8.92 kg/mm)

you can get the 4 inch springs in 800lb/in (14.2) and 600 (10.71) so it is back to searching :(
makofoto 02-01-2005 04:09 PM

>>>A spring is a spring.<<<

The lite weight Greens don't look progressive ...

Just before I read your message ... I had sent Nakai-san a message asking him to clarify the spring issue! ;)
DrBiggly 02-01-2005 04:09 PM

The 6.5" spring I have now is almost too long. Going to a 7" spring would ensure that I could not lower the rear of the car to the proper height.
Fred 02-01-2005 04:09 PM

Dude, if I bought a car that had won the national championship I wouldn't change a thing. I'd just drive it faster than Hoppe to make sure it repeated.

:lol:

I thought the car was insanely loose already; why are you increasing the rear rate? (just curious)
DrBiggly 02-01-2005 04:09 PM

[QUOTE=Fred]Dude, if I bought a car that had won the national championship I wouldn't change a thing. I'd just drive it faster than Hoppe to make sure it repeated.

:lol:

I thought the car was insanely loose already; why are you increasing the rear rate? (just curious)[/QUOTE]
Increase rates overall, decrease bars. It so happens that I only need 1 pair of springs for the proposed change. :)

Besides the more I find out about the car's setup the more I find out that it wasn't exactly fully developed. Tom won because he's fast and drove around the car's setup flaws. :)
DrBiggly 02-01-2005 04:23 PM

mako,
Thanks for the info!

Would you be kind enough to ask him if they're hiding any 12k springs around there somewhere? :)
omahasubaru 02-01-2005 04:34 PM

[QUOTE=DrBiggly]Increase rates overall, decrease bars.[/QUOTE]
Good move. I'm doing the same this year. It is best IMHO.

Good luck in your search. As I said, check out Eibach's ERS listing. They may have some 65mm springs, I just haven't taken the time myself to look.

6" springs should be fine.
rautox 02-01-2005 04:45 PM

There are ERS's listed at 64mm id. Hmm.
trhoppe 02-01-2005 04:50 PM

[quote]Besides the more I find out about the car's setup the more I find out that it wasn't exactly fully developed.[/quote] :furious: Hey now. I would actually say the opposite. For last year, it was very well developed. More so then any other car. It also handled(s) like a dream. *anything* can be made better though. I would have only changed 2 things if I would have kept it, and you are already doing those ;)

-Tom
DrBiggly 02-01-2005 05:01 PM

[QUOTE=trhoppe]:furious: Hey now. I would actually say the opposite. For last year, it was very well developed. More so then any other car. It also handled(s) like a dream. *anything* can be made better though. I would have only changed 2 things if I would have kept it, and you are already doing those ;)

-Tom[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying it wasn't properly developed; just not completed. There are lots of little tweaky things to do (light seats, lightweight bolts where allowed, the list goes on) and I consider that "further car development."

It was very well developed for '04; that much is plainly obvious to anyone. But for '05, you think everybody else is going to sit around and not keep developing their cars too? :lol:

You already know the rest of the details... :D

Besides, I fear retribution from the BMW camp and folks talking about E30 BMWs joining the STX fray. Those guys have had many years to develop their cars and find out all the tweaks necessary; all they have to do is make one STX-legal and go to town. I heard a rumor that Vic Sias is also going to head down the E30 route in STX....
rautox 02-01-2005 05:24 PM

[QUOTE=DrBiggly]It was very well developed for '04; that much is plainly obvious to anyone. But for '05, you think everybody else is going to sit around and not keep developing their cars too? :lol: [/quote]
I had hopes... ;)

[quote]Besides, I fear retribution from the BMW camp and folks talking about E30 BMWs joining the STX fray. Those guys have had many years to develop their cars and find out all the tweaks necessary; all they have to do is make one STX-legal and go to town. I heard a rumor that Vic Sias is also going to head down the E30 route in STX....[/QUOTE]
We already have a few M3's in dc/philly/susq and they are zippy. More of them on the way, too. Between them and the mini's... :eek:
Corey 02-01-2005 05:43 PM

Well, I dug through the springs that I have here... nothing in 12K... sorry.

[QUOTE=DrBiggly]Increase rates overall, decrease bars.[/QUOTE]

Gee, I've been saying that all along... not that anybody wanted to listen :p

Corey #89 STS
makofoto 02-01-2005 05:50 PM

how much sway bar then ... ? 22/23 mm, or even less ...
STI4ME 02-01-2005 06:24 PM

Tein HA uses 70 mm ID springs.
Tein RA uses 65 mm ID springs.

If you are planning on experimenting alot with different spring rates, you might want to consider getting a set of upper and lower spring perches that take 2.5 " (63.5 mm) ID springs custom made for your HA's.
DrBiggly 02-01-2005 07:02 PM

Corey,
Thanks for checking! As far as folks not listening, I never heard you say it. I'm listening now, that's for sure. :) (Probably Tom is the one hard of hearing) :lol:

mako,
Dunno yet. However I do have adjustable front and rear and I'll just start them out on the soft settings instead of the hard settings they're on now; hopefully that will be the ticket.

STI4ME,
I don't plan on monkeying with the springrates any more than this so although that's a really great idea, at this point it wouldn't be of much benefit to me. Out of curiosity, where would one get that done? :)
STI4ME 02-01-2005 07:23 PM

A good machine shop should be able to fab something up if you provide them with a clear drawing. This may be mucho $$$.

A cheaper alternative is to have your exsiting spring perches machined down, provided there are enough material to do so.
KC 02-01-2005 08:21 PM

I ordered mine through ProSpec in Quincy, MA. It took about a month for them to come in.

I ordered them (Pair 10s and a pair 12s) about a week after I got the RAs to play with the different rates since they were so easy to change out at an event.

--kC
Patrick L 02-01-2005 10:15 PM

CHeap ($38 a spring) and farely fast and good quality. They make springs for just about anything.
Cannon RaceCraft Inc., The Spring Maker
[url]http://www.cannonracecraft.com/[/url]
I have springs on my car from them.
omahasubaru 02-02-2005 11:07 AM

[QUOTE=makofoto]how much sway bar then ... ? 22/23 mm, or even less ...[/QUOTE]

More spring, no swaybars. :devil:
DrBiggly 02-02-2005 02:03 PM

[QUOTE=KC]I ordered mine through ProSpec in Quincy, MA. It took about a month for them to come in.

I ordered them (Pair 10s and a pair 12s) about a week after I got the RAs to play with the different rates since they were so easy to change out at an event.

--kC[/QUOTE]
Ahhhh...do you have contact info for them? My current timetable is about a month actually. :)
KC 02-02-2005 02:30 PM

Prospec
141 Water St
Quincy, MA 02169-6535
Phone: (617) 479-1051

It was a one time purchase through them... but there were no issues. I picked them up there... they weren't shipped to me.

--kC
DrBiggly 02-02-2005 02:42 PM

Thanks Keith.
(I actually realized that I was being a n00b and did a search for them right after I posted. My results match what you posted so now I know it's right.) :)
makofoto 02-02-2005 10:13 PM

Got this info this morning but couldn't send it until now ... we were out testing with Ken Motonishi ... :-) (Hi Tom & KC from Ken)

Tein USA, talk to Anthony ... has 175mm 12K Black (regular) springs in stock ...

To get 150 mm 12 K springs ... you will need to probably get Green light-weight racing springs in that length ... you need to order them through a Tein dealer ... who CAN have them air freighted to you in 5 to 7 days directly from Japan ... for an extra $50 to $75. You need to stress to them how urgent it is. I've had great success with Henry at Option Auto Salon ... in L.A. ... who I'm sure will turn around and tell Tein USA down the street to order them ?! ;-(
DrBiggly 02-03-2005 09:46 AM

Mako,
Thanks for checking up on that for me. What I need to do is call Tein USA and find out if the RAs and HAs have different inner diameters on their springs, otherwise I wouldn't be able to order anything from folks. Someone else also pointed me to Tanabe, who lists springs on their website that are exactly what I need (if I need a 65mm ID spring.)

I just haven't had time to do anything due to work. :(
makofoto 02-03-2005 10:07 AM

I believe Anthony said that you need 65 mm ID for your RA's (I thought that's what you have ?)
DrBiggly 02-03-2005 11:27 AM

I have the older HAs and not RAs. (I probably should have mentioned that earlier in the thread.) :o
makofoto 02-03-2005 11:37 AM

I don't see the HA's listed anymore ... but aren't the Tein's standardized on 65 ID springs ?
trhoppe 02-03-2005 11:39 AM

These are the GC8 HAs on a WRX. The besterest combo.

-Tom
makofoto 02-03-2005 11:46 AM

New bestest are the Super Racing Circuit Masters (according to Nakai-san, Tein USA R&D director) ... adds the ability to change ride heights and pre-load separately ... around $2,200 without springs. Obviously doesn't have a National Title to it's credit, yet. :o :)
DrBiggly 02-03-2005 12:14 PM

Nor a super-custom revalve. :D
Patrick L 02-03-2005 07:27 PM

Anyone looked at the JIC FLT-A2 RS. These you can get customed vavle. I got a WRX friend who is getting a set soon and wants me too install them. I am going to take a good look at them.
Butt Dyno 02-03-2005 07:38 PM

[QUOTE=Top_Dog]Anyone looked at the JIC FLT-A2 RS. These you can get customed vavle. I got a WRX friend who is getting a set soon and wants me too install them. I am going to take a good look at them.[/QUOTE]Start a new thread :)

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