| artkevin | 10-04-2005 09:54 AM |
Honda buys BAR?
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[URL=http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=100018]Honda buys BAR[/URL]
Some how I didn't see this coming. Should have with the tabacco ban and all but I guess I wasn't paying enough attention to it.
There is also a rumor that Honda will supply engines to a 2nd new team in 06 to make a field of 11 with Sato being the driver. Somehow it feels like they are just trying not to piss off all the Japense fans for the up coming race any more then they already have by dropping Sato.
Some how I didn't see this coming. Should have with the tabacco ban and all but I guess I wasn't paying enough attention to it.
There is also a rumor that Honda will supply engines to a 2nd new team in 06 to make a field of 11 with Sato being the driver. Somehow it feels like they are just trying not to piss off all the Japense fans for the up coming race any more then they already have by dropping Sato.
| hikeeba | 10-04-2005 10:06 AM |
I don't think it's so much that they don't want to piss off the Japanesse fans. I think Honda wants more of a controlling interest in the racing venture. As of now, Sato doesn't have a ride for next year. Sato is a Honda protege, and there was a rumor that Toyota was interested in picking him up, or having one of the Toyota-powered teams pick him up. This would be real interesting, as I've been told that the rivalry in Japan between Honda and Toyota is like the fabled rivalry in the States (here) between the Hatfields and the McCoys. However, I doubt they would buy a team or supply engines to another team just so Sato could have a driver's seat.
Think about Honda's F1 past. Perhaps they felt BAR wasn't making adequate progress in winning a championship, and they have decided to take matters into their on hands.
I also heard that one of the smaller F1 teams (Minardi?) was considering picking up Honda motors for next year. I've been out of the F1 news for about the last month, so i have lost track of all the little details. I've have to get re-aquainted with the situation for the final two races.
Regardless of what happens, GO HONDA!
Think about Honda's F1 past. Perhaps they felt BAR wasn't making adequate progress in winning a championship, and they have decided to take matters into their on hands.
I also heard that one of the smaller F1 teams (Minardi?) was considering picking up Honda motors for next year. I've been out of the F1 news for about the last month, so i have lost track of all the little details. I've have to get re-aquainted with the situation for the final two races.
Regardless of what happens, GO HONDA!
| artkevin | 10-04-2005 10:27 AM |
I just don't think there will be an 11th team. It feels like a rumor to appease the fans in Japan. I like Sato and Honda so I hope it happens but I don't see what Honda could gain. I have heard of very few buyers out on the market right now that would have the ability to start up a full F1 team in the next few months. Eddie Irvine and his backers are the only ones that come to mind. Again, I hope it happens but I won't hold my breath.
| PitwrkzZ1 | 10-04-2005 10:41 AM |
Rud Bull bought out minardi and are using it as a sort of testing ground for new drivers.
Go Williams-Cosworth!
Go Williams-Cosworth!
| parker/slc/gc8fan | 10-04-2005 10:44 AM |
Well with multiple series in the works (both planning to carry the F1 name) you can bet honda is keeping leverage for the new concorde agreement.
| Ferg | 10-04-2005 11:06 AM |
More on Honda's F1 future.
[QUOTE]Honda Acquires 100% of BAR
By Reuters Tuesday, 04 October 2005 04:35
Japanese car manufacturer Honda revealed today that it will go it alone in Formula One from next year after acquiring a 100 percent stake in the BAR Honda team.
Honda announced its buyout of founding owner British American Tobacco's (BAT) 55 percent majority share ahead of this weekend's home Grand Prix at Suzuka, Honda's 100th race with BAR.
"We began negotiations in the summer to increase our share from 45 percent to full acquisition," Honda's operating officer Hiroshi Oshima told Reuters. "We want to race as Honda and we want to challenge for the Championship. We want to take the team in a better direction."
The BAR F1 team was bought by a joint venture between engine partners Honda and BAT in January. BAT owned 55 percent of BARH Limited, with Honda holding 45 percent.
Honda also said it would rename the new team in agreement with future sponsors. "Basically it will be 100 percent Honda from 2006," Oshima said. "We will complete the buyout by the end of the year. We have a highly motivated team and we expect to be much stronger."
He added: "The name will be Honda something-or-other but we will have to talk with the sponsors before making that decision."
BAT, who provided most of the money to start the team in 1999, had previously owned 90 percent of the shares with the rest divided between a handful of co-founders.
The tobacco company had intended to exit the sport as legislation against tobacco advertising came into force earlier this year.
A European Union directive banned all print and radio advertising as well as event sponsorship by tobacco companies from August 1st this year.
BAR finished runners-up to Ferrari in last year's constructors' title with drivers Jenson Button of Britain and Japan's Takuma Sato.
The team has struggled to repeat that performance this year and Sato will make way for Brazilian Rubens Barrichello in a new-look Honda outfit from next season.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Honda Set to Run Second F1 Team
By Jonathan Noble Tuesday, 04 October 2005 13:48
Honda are close to giving the green light to running a second Formula One team next season, Autosport-Atlas has learned.
After Takuma Sato revealed on Tuesday that he was in talks with a mystery 11th team about a deal for 2006, sources have told Autosport-Atlas that the new outfit are set to be backed by Honda themselves.
It is believed that the plan is for them to operate alongside the newly bought-out BAR team � although Honda chiefs are believed to be keen for their second outfit not to be labelled as a 'B-team' as such.
Honda are especially keen for the new team to be viewed as their own entity, despite the backing they will have from the Japanese manufacturer.
Autosport-Atlas understands that the Japanese car manufacturer are in the final stages of discussions about the new team, and it is possible that they may find a partner who can front the outfit for them � to further distance the team from a direct link as a Honda B-team.
This partner could be a sponsor or an actual team to run the cars.
A high-level insider at Honda told Autosport-Atlas: "It is something that we are still in the process of sorting out. We do not want to say it is a B-spec team as such, but it will be run by people who have knowledge of F1 but have never been in F1 before."
One possibility is for the team to be dominated by staff from Honda's R&D facility in Tochigi who have previously worked on Formula One developments for BAR.
Sources have claimed that Honda have decided to make news of their plans public in a bid to placate the Japanese fans and media, who have been left furious that BAR have chosen to drop Sato from the team.
The news of plans for Sato and the new Honda team will certainly reduce the possibility of Honda and BAR facing a backlash at this weekend's Japanese Grand Prix.
"Everyone was mad about Taku," said a source. "The fans would not have left us alone if we did not say something."
Sato is the obvious number one candidate for the team, while BAR test driver Anthony Davidson would also be a leading contender thanks to his impressive work for them over recent seasons.
Although it is too late for the new team to build their own car from scratch, it is possible that they could run versions of this year's BAR007 � as long as they made sure that they owned the intellectual property rights to the cars.
They would also have to construct the cars themselves rather than use the actual old BAR007 chassis.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Honda Acquires 100% of BAR
By Reuters Tuesday, 04 October 2005 04:35
Japanese car manufacturer Honda revealed today that it will go it alone in Formula One from next year after acquiring a 100 percent stake in the BAR Honda team.
Honda announced its buyout of founding owner British American Tobacco's (BAT) 55 percent majority share ahead of this weekend's home Grand Prix at Suzuka, Honda's 100th race with BAR.
"We began negotiations in the summer to increase our share from 45 percent to full acquisition," Honda's operating officer Hiroshi Oshima told Reuters. "We want to race as Honda and we want to challenge for the Championship. We want to take the team in a better direction."
The BAR F1 team was bought by a joint venture between engine partners Honda and BAT in January. BAT owned 55 percent of BARH Limited, with Honda holding 45 percent.
Honda also said it would rename the new team in agreement with future sponsors. "Basically it will be 100 percent Honda from 2006," Oshima said. "We will complete the buyout by the end of the year. We have a highly motivated team and we expect to be much stronger."
He added: "The name will be Honda something-or-other but we will have to talk with the sponsors before making that decision."
BAT, who provided most of the money to start the team in 1999, had previously owned 90 percent of the shares with the rest divided between a handful of co-founders.
The tobacco company had intended to exit the sport as legislation against tobacco advertising came into force earlier this year.
A European Union directive banned all print and radio advertising as well as event sponsorship by tobacco companies from August 1st this year.
BAR finished runners-up to Ferrari in last year's constructors' title with drivers Jenson Button of Britain and Japan's Takuma Sato.
The team has struggled to repeat that performance this year and Sato will make way for Brazilian Rubens Barrichello in a new-look Honda outfit from next season.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Honda Set to Run Second F1 Team
By Jonathan Noble Tuesday, 04 October 2005 13:48
Honda are close to giving the green light to running a second Formula One team next season, Autosport-Atlas has learned.
After Takuma Sato revealed on Tuesday that he was in talks with a mystery 11th team about a deal for 2006, sources have told Autosport-Atlas that the new outfit are set to be backed by Honda themselves.
It is believed that the plan is for them to operate alongside the newly bought-out BAR team � although Honda chiefs are believed to be keen for their second outfit not to be labelled as a 'B-team' as such.
Honda are especially keen for the new team to be viewed as their own entity, despite the backing they will have from the Japanese manufacturer.
Autosport-Atlas understands that the Japanese car manufacturer are in the final stages of discussions about the new team, and it is possible that they may find a partner who can front the outfit for them � to further distance the team from a direct link as a Honda B-team.
This partner could be a sponsor or an actual team to run the cars.
A high-level insider at Honda told Autosport-Atlas: "It is something that we are still in the process of sorting out. We do not want to say it is a B-spec team as such, but it will be run by people who have knowledge of F1 but have never been in F1 before."
One possibility is for the team to be dominated by staff from Honda's R&D facility in Tochigi who have previously worked on Formula One developments for BAR.
Sources have claimed that Honda have decided to make news of their plans public in a bid to placate the Japanese fans and media, who have been left furious that BAR have chosen to drop Sato from the team.
The news of plans for Sato and the new Honda team will certainly reduce the possibility of Honda and BAR facing a backlash at this weekend's Japanese Grand Prix.
"Everyone was mad about Taku," said a source. "The fans would not have left us alone if we did not say something."
Sato is the obvious number one candidate for the team, while BAR test driver Anthony Davidson would also be a leading contender thanks to his impressive work for them over recent seasons.
Although it is too late for the new team to build their own car from scratch, it is possible that they could run versions of this year's BAR007 � as long as they made sure that they owned the intellectual property rights to the cars.
They would also have to construct the cars themselves rather than use the actual old BAR007 chassis.[/QUOTE]
| AndyRoo | 10-04-2005 12:19 PM |
I would be very happy to see Anthony Davidson get the 2nd seat at the 11th team (and proceed to crush Taku) :)
His racing seat is long overdue.
- andrew
His racing seat is long overdue.
- andrew
| hikeeba | 10-05-2005 09:30 AM |
Wow. Thanks for the articles Ferg. I hope it's all real, and not a bunch of bs. I'd like to see Honda become a dominating force in F1 once again.
| Ferg | 10-05-2005 10:04 AM |
[QUOTE=hikeeba]Wow. Thanks for the articles Ferg. I hope it's all real, and not a bunch of bs. I'd like to see Honda become a dominating force in F1 once again.[/QUOTE]
No problem, I always try to pass along the good stuff.
The articles came from Autosport, which is [i]the[/i] authority on Formula One. In the ten years or so that I've been reading them they've rarely gotten things wrong. Even though it's a pay news service I highly recommend to anyone who's as obsessed with the sport as I am to sign up. It's completely worth it. The only thing that's weird about this story is that there hasn't been so much as a hint (except for Sato's comments) that Honda was going to start up a junior team...
I'm with you though. I think it's great news and I hope it turns out to be true.
Next season's grid is going to be a weird place...
Ferrari Schumacher & Massa
Honda (no more BAR) Button & Barrichello
Honda Jr Sato and Davidson
Redbull Coulthard & Klein
Redbull Jr (no more Minardi :( ) Speed and Luizi
McLaren Montoya & Raikonnen
Williams Webber & Rosberg (here's hoping that Nico gets the nod)
Toyota Trulli & Schumacher
BMW Heidfeld and who...certainly not JV
Midland who knows!?!
Renault Alonso & Fisichella
I'm getting goosebumps already :devil:
No problem, I always try to pass along the good stuff.
The articles came from Autosport, which is [i]the[/i] authority on Formula One. In the ten years or so that I've been reading them they've rarely gotten things wrong. Even though it's a pay news service I highly recommend to anyone who's as obsessed with the sport as I am to sign up. It's completely worth it. The only thing that's weird about this story is that there hasn't been so much as a hint (except for Sato's comments) that Honda was going to start up a junior team...
I'm with you though. I think it's great news and I hope it turns out to be true.
Next season's grid is going to be a weird place...
Ferrari Schumacher & Massa
Honda (no more BAR) Button & Barrichello
Honda Jr Sato and Davidson
Redbull Coulthard & Klein
Redbull Jr (no more Minardi :( ) Speed and Luizi
McLaren Montoya & Raikonnen
Williams Webber & Rosberg (here's hoping that Nico gets the nod)
Toyota Trulli & Schumacher
BMW Heidfeld and who...certainly not JV
Midland who knows!?!
Renault Alonso & Fisichella
I'm getting goosebumps already :devil:
| erich_sc | 10-06-2005 01:29 AM |
11 teams?!? That would be absolutely fantastic! Wow, so two Redbull teams and two Honda teams... That's alot of money for each company to spend. I hope it's worth it in marketing for the sponsors. I personally try to purchase products which support racing series' I enjoy watching. Makes me feel like I'm giving back to the sponsors for investing in my favorite sports! I hope everyone who is a fan tries to do the same...
| artkevin | 10-06-2005 09:13 AM |
Don't forget Merc/McLaren "B" team that might happen. Means there could be 12 teams by 07. I don't think there are any other teams up for sale that they would buy so they would have to start their own.
| AndyRoo | 10-06-2005 09:29 AM |
Remember when everyone was afraid there would only be 9 teams (when Arrows went under)? And now with "B" teams popping up rookies and test drivers have a much better chance at breaking out and hitting it big.
My how times have changed. We just need more passing. :)
- andrew
My how times have changed. We just need more passing. :)
- andrew
| hikeeba | 10-06-2005 09:42 AM |
Wow again. Next year's grid has me quite excited! 11 teams would be great, but 12 teams by '07? Could it really happen? I thought at the beginning of the '05 season, there were rumors that there could be a split (a la IRL/CART) after the '07 season. At the time, a bunch of drivers, or teams, or both, were unhappy with F1 management and threatened to start up their own series. Are there still rumors floating around out there like that?
Although Ihave tried to catch all the F1 races this season, I fell off the f1 blog and forum bandwagon around mid-season. I apologize if I'm out-of-touch by posing these questions.
And I just noticed Ferg has Spacataz under his name. HA! ATHF RULES!!!
Although Ihave tried to catch all the F1 races this season, I fell off the f1 blog and forum bandwagon around mid-season. I apologize if I'm out-of-touch by posing these questions.
And I just noticed Ferg has Spacataz under his name. HA! ATHF RULES!!!
| Ferg | 10-06-2005 10:01 AM |
Oh yeah, the proposed breakaway series is still being threatened. It's lost some steam though...Williams being the most recent team to lean towards the FIA side of the field.
Really though it's just a bargaining piece the manufactureres are using in an effort to get more cash from Bernie. Eventually they'll all come to an agreement...I hope.
Spacecataz..yup, I'm a huge ATHF fan obviously. The key is pronouncing it with the appropriate Spanish accent.
I see you're username is "hikeeba"...which is a MST3K reference is it not? :D
Really though it's just a bargaining piece the manufactureres are using in an effort to get more cash from Bernie. Eventually they'll all come to an agreement...I hope.
Spacecataz..yup, I'm a huge ATHF fan obviously. The key is pronouncing it with the appropriate Spanish accent.
I see you're username is "hikeeba"...which is a MST3K reference is it not? :D
| scoobyRx | 10-06-2005 12:04 PM |
I'm not so sure on the Honda "B" team. Unless the FIA waves their new team reg. fee Honda would have to pay $48mil to FIA just to start the team and then they wouldn't get any tv money for the first 2 yrs. At least that's how it works if you or me wanted to start a team. Not sure if that still applies to existing teams wanting to expand. Red Bull got around it by buying an existing team.
Currently the FIA only allows for 2 cars per team, so any B team would have to be a different team with different chassis, but I suppose there are loopholes
Any thoughts?
And I wouldn't be surprised to see Fischi move as Renault isn't that happy with him.
Currently the FIA only allows for 2 cars per team, so any B team would have to be a different team with different chassis, but I suppose there are loopholes
Any thoughts?
And I wouldn't be surprised to see Fischi move as Renault isn't that happy with him.
| artkevin | 10-06-2005 01:01 PM |
I think that $48 mil is a huge set back to the sport. How can you ask any racing team to be competative when they start out $48,00,000 in the hole before they even bolt 1 wheel on? I personally would like to see 26 or so cars on the grid or even have a true quali session like it used to be. 30 cars show up. Only 28 or 26 actually get to race on Sunday but no one has any guarantees.
I wish they made them sign a contract to say if they leave the sport with in say 5 years of coming in, they will have to pay that amount or the balance of a deposit. To ask someone to do it out right is crazy and only favors manufactures and billionares. I would much rather see them spend that money on a windtunnel or testing.
I wish they made them sign a contract to say if they leave the sport with in say 5 years of coming in, they will have to pay that amount or the balance of a deposit. To ask someone to do it out right is crazy and only favors manufactures and billionares. I would much rather see them spend that money on a windtunnel or testing.
| Ferg | 10-06-2005 01:26 PM |
Here's an interview with BAR head Nick Fry on the possibility of the new Honda team.
[QUOTE]Fry: 11th Team Likely to Happen
By Jonathan Noble Thursday, 06 October 2005 09:22
BAR boss Nick Fry believes that the new Honda-powered team due to enter Formula One next season has a better than 50-50 chance of making it onto the grid.
Fry has been involved in the discussions with Honda about the new operation and claims that the next few weeks will be crucial to get it off the ground.
"I think there is a 65 percent chance of it happening - certainly better than evens," said Fry at Suzuka on Thursday. "If it was not that (likely), we would not be saying anything.
"But it is a tall order to put this type of thing together in six months."
Honda are believed to be the driving force behind the new team, even though they do not want the outfit to become a Honda B-team. It is believed that discussions are currently underway about how the team will be presented and exactly who will run it.
Fry has refused to give any further details about the new team plans but said he was confident they had the necessary technical and financial capabilities to run the team.
"It is going to be tough, no doubt about it, but Honda would not have mentioned this unless it was relatively credible," he added. "Discussions with us have been going on for a few months now and I am sure the potential new team has done its homework before that.
"You don't come out and say these things without a fair bit of activity having happened previously. It is going to be very difficult to do next year but we will try to do it and see what happens.
"We have been asked numerous times about the nationality, but we are not giving that away at this stage because it would point in a certain direction, but these are credible people with motor racing experience and the financial backing to do the job.
"We are not talking about an under-funded team here, and clearly they have convinced Honda, Bernie and us that this has got potential."
The new team are planning to run Honda V8 engines and, as Autosport-Atlas revealed, are set to land a deal for Bridgestone tyres.
And although it is expected that they will run versions of this year's BAR007, Fry has said that agreement on that detail has not yet happened.
Formula One's current rules outlaw teams from running chassis that have been built by other teams, but it is possible for teams to purchase the intellectual property rights to cars and then run them if they construct the cars themselves.
"Clearly there are well-defined rules in Formula One that spell out what you can and can't do but they do give the ability (to sell intellectual property rights) and we believe that is what Red Bull will do with their second team," said Fry.
"There are ways of meeting those regulations while giving a good level of technical support. The agreement is to supply engine and technical support, and the definition of technical support is open ended and what we have to do is obey the F1 rules.
"A chassis has to have certain criteria, so it will be down to them to convince the FIA that is what they have done." [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Fry: 11th Team Likely to Happen
By Jonathan Noble Thursday, 06 October 2005 09:22
BAR boss Nick Fry believes that the new Honda-powered team due to enter Formula One next season has a better than 50-50 chance of making it onto the grid.
Fry has been involved in the discussions with Honda about the new operation and claims that the next few weeks will be crucial to get it off the ground.
"I think there is a 65 percent chance of it happening - certainly better than evens," said Fry at Suzuka on Thursday. "If it was not that (likely), we would not be saying anything.
"But it is a tall order to put this type of thing together in six months."
Honda are believed to be the driving force behind the new team, even though they do not want the outfit to become a Honda B-team. It is believed that discussions are currently underway about how the team will be presented and exactly who will run it.
Fry has refused to give any further details about the new team plans but said he was confident they had the necessary technical and financial capabilities to run the team.
"It is going to be tough, no doubt about it, but Honda would not have mentioned this unless it was relatively credible," he added. "Discussions with us have been going on for a few months now and I am sure the potential new team has done its homework before that.
"You don't come out and say these things without a fair bit of activity having happened previously. It is going to be very difficult to do next year but we will try to do it and see what happens.
"We have been asked numerous times about the nationality, but we are not giving that away at this stage because it would point in a certain direction, but these are credible people with motor racing experience and the financial backing to do the job.
"We are not talking about an under-funded team here, and clearly they have convinced Honda, Bernie and us that this has got potential."
The new team are planning to run Honda V8 engines and, as Autosport-Atlas revealed, are set to land a deal for Bridgestone tyres.
And although it is expected that they will run versions of this year's BAR007, Fry has said that agreement on that detail has not yet happened.
Formula One's current rules outlaw teams from running chassis that have been built by other teams, but it is possible for teams to purchase the intellectual property rights to cars and then run them if they construct the cars themselves.
"Clearly there are well-defined rules in Formula One that spell out what you can and can't do but they do give the ability (to sell intellectual property rights) and we believe that is what Red Bull will do with their second team," said Fry.
"There are ways of meeting those regulations while giving a good level of technical support. The agreement is to supply engine and technical support, and the definition of technical support is open ended and what we have to do is obey the F1 rules.
"A chassis has to have certain criteria, so it will be down to them to convince the FIA that is what they have done." [/QUOTE]
| Ferg | 10-06-2005 01:29 PM |
[QUOTE]Bridgestone Ready to Supply 11th Team
By Jonathan Noble Thursday, 06 October 2005 08:06
Formula One tyre manufacturer Bridgestone are set to give approval to a supply deal for Honda's new 'junior' team next year, Autosport-Atlas can exclusively reveal.
Although details of the new team only emerged this week, sources have revealed that Bridgestone are keen to get involved with the Honda 'junior' team because of the high profile the new outfit are likely to have in their home market of Japan.
If the green light is given for the new team, with further discussions set to take place at this weekend's Japanese Grand Prix, then it could result in a Japanese combination of Takuma Sato driving a Honda-powered car on Bridgestone tyres.
Bridgestone's desire to get involved with the new outfit has also been fuelled by the possibility that Red Bull's junior team could be switching to Michelin tyres next season.
Should that happen, with Red Bull having lodged a request with Michelin, then Bridgestone would only be left with four of the current teams - Ferrari, Williams, Toyota and Jordan - at a time when they know they need as much testing mileage as possible to recover their form.
The Honda operation would almost certainly have the budget for a major testing programme to help Bridgestone's efforts, even though the exact details of who will be running the team have not yet been disclosed.
BAR boss Nick Fry told this week's Autosport that discussions over the new team were close to being finalised - although emphasised that the final green light for the operation had not been given.
"The discussions are well advanced but they are not yet concluded," he said. "Mr. Ecclestone is fully aware of what's going on and has given it his support, as he is aware that these are credible people with the appropriate resources."
BAR test driver Anthony Davidson has been strongly linked with the second seat at the new Honda team, which will almost certainly run their own development versions of this year's BAR007 chassis. [/QUOTE]
I still can't find any definitive answer on the $48 million pony up fee. But if Bernie wants an eleventh team he has ways of making it happen.
[QUOTE]Davidson Tipped for Drive with New Team
Thursday, 06 October 2005 09:29
Anthony Davidson has been tipped to join Takuma Sato at the new Honda-powered Formula One team next year, by his current boss.
Nick Fry has said BAR would reluctantly let Davidson go from his current duties as test driver if he was offered a drive at the new F1 team.
"Anthony has got a good chance," said Fry, ahead of this weekend's Japanese Grand Prix. "He has proven himself and he keeps proving himself.
"At the last test, last week, he did an absolutely sensational job and he wants to drive a race car. He is well known to Honda and we would not stand in his way, even though it would be a loss to our testing efforts if he went elsewhere.
"I am sure he would have both our and Honda's backing and we would applaud someone who wanted to take him up."
Sato has spoken publicly about a firm offer he has from the Honda junior outfit and Fry believes that the new team would be very attractive for his current drivers.
"It is obviously a very good place for Taku to go," added Fry. "Obviously with Honda engine backing, the same engine as we are using next year, it is not going to be an out of date engine. So it is promising for him." [/QUOTE]
By Jonathan Noble Thursday, 06 October 2005 08:06
Formula One tyre manufacturer Bridgestone are set to give approval to a supply deal for Honda's new 'junior' team next year, Autosport-Atlas can exclusively reveal.
Although details of the new team only emerged this week, sources have revealed that Bridgestone are keen to get involved with the Honda 'junior' team because of the high profile the new outfit are likely to have in their home market of Japan.
If the green light is given for the new team, with further discussions set to take place at this weekend's Japanese Grand Prix, then it could result in a Japanese combination of Takuma Sato driving a Honda-powered car on Bridgestone tyres.
Bridgestone's desire to get involved with the new outfit has also been fuelled by the possibility that Red Bull's junior team could be switching to Michelin tyres next season.
Should that happen, with Red Bull having lodged a request with Michelin, then Bridgestone would only be left with four of the current teams - Ferrari, Williams, Toyota and Jordan - at a time when they know they need as much testing mileage as possible to recover their form.
The Honda operation would almost certainly have the budget for a major testing programme to help Bridgestone's efforts, even though the exact details of who will be running the team have not yet been disclosed.
BAR boss Nick Fry told this week's Autosport that discussions over the new team were close to being finalised - although emphasised that the final green light for the operation had not been given.
"The discussions are well advanced but they are not yet concluded," he said. "Mr. Ecclestone is fully aware of what's going on and has given it his support, as he is aware that these are credible people with the appropriate resources."
BAR test driver Anthony Davidson has been strongly linked with the second seat at the new Honda team, which will almost certainly run their own development versions of this year's BAR007 chassis. [/QUOTE]
I still can't find any definitive answer on the $48 million pony up fee. But if Bernie wants an eleventh team he has ways of making it happen.
[QUOTE]Davidson Tipped for Drive with New Team
Thursday, 06 October 2005 09:29
Anthony Davidson has been tipped to join Takuma Sato at the new Honda-powered Formula One team next year, by his current boss.
Nick Fry has said BAR would reluctantly let Davidson go from his current duties as test driver if he was offered a drive at the new F1 team.
"Anthony has got a good chance," said Fry, ahead of this weekend's Japanese Grand Prix. "He has proven himself and he keeps proving himself.
"At the last test, last week, he did an absolutely sensational job and he wants to drive a race car. He is well known to Honda and we would not stand in his way, even though it would be a loss to our testing efforts if he went elsewhere.
"I am sure he would have both our and Honda's backing and we would applaud someone who wanted to take him up."
Sato has spoken publicly about a firm offer he has from the Honda junior outfit and Fry believes that the new team would be very attractive for his current drivers.
"It is obviously a very good place for Taku to go," added Fry. "Obviously with Honda engine backing, the same engine as we are using next year, it is not going to be an out of date engine. So it is promising for him." [/QUOTE]
| hikeeba | 10-07-2005 10:12 AM |
Ferg, you nailed the MST3K reference. Nice! NOBODY gets that EVER! I have it on my Yakima rack fairing, and I had it for years on a license plate. I had to resort to telling people that Hi-Keeba! was what one says when delivering a karate chop. Even here in the Midwest, MST3K is liitle known. Or maybe I'm just in contact with all the wrong people.
Thanks Honda F1 updates!
Thanks Honda F1 updates!
| driggity | 10-07-2005 12:16 PM |
[QUOTE=Ferg]I still can't find any definitive answer on the $48 million pony up fee. But if Bernie wants an eleventh team he has ways of making it happen.[/QUOTE]
I could have sworn I read something about that going way when I was reading about the talk of a second McLaren team a while ago.
edit: Ah here it was. [url]http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000790057942/[/url] Although it would be nice to see this from a more definitive source. Get to searching those Autosport archives Mr. Ferg.
I could have sworn I read something about that going way when I was reading about the talk of a second McLaren team a while ago.
edit: Ah here it was. [url]http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000790057942/[/url] Although it would be nice to see this from a more definitive source. Get to searching those Autosport archives Mr. Ferg.
| Ferg | 10-07-2005 02:07 PM |
I'm working on it :D
| bitterWRX | 10-07-2005 02:14 PM |
Wow, next year is going to very very interesting for F1.
| Ferg | 10-07-2005 02:28 PM |
Bah the Autosport archieves aren't up yet. Ever since they merged with Atlas it's been difficult to search the older articles... BAH!
I've read in several different places though that they want to drop the 48 million entry fee when they sign the new Concord for 2008....of course they have to get all the teams to sign first.
Here's some info direct from Yasuhiro Wada, BAR...er I mean Hondas big cheese..
[QUOTE]Q. Wada-san, what was the thinking behind taking the controlling interest in BAR?
Yasuhiro Wada: As you know we already have a 45-percent holding in the team and also the tobacco situation, BAT have to leave sooner or later, and we have been discussing the situation and we thought the team's stability was very important and sooner or later we would. To me zero to 45 is a big difference, but 45 to 100 is not that much!
Q. Also can you tell us more about this potential second team, everyone wants to know about it?
YW: I wish I could tell more but this is an independent team already doing some racing activities and they are keen to enter Formula One. We agree with what they are aiming for and their objectives we have finally decided to do the full support, maybe not just engine supply but on top of that the technical assistance.
Q. When do you think we will know more about that?
YW: I think we will have to wait for the team to announce. Our part is already said, I think they are finalising all the details so it is hopefully going to be happening soon.
Q. Owning BAR means you are already putting a lot of money into the team, but are you not worried that it might become a big spending war with your compatriots here?
YW: We are not expecting to spend that much. I think we will spend a reasonable amount of money to make the team stronger but nothing more than that.[/QUOTE]
I have to think it's one of the existing GP2 teams that wants to step up...Super Nova...maybe Arden?
I've read in several different places though that they want to drop the 48 million entry fee when they sign the new Concord for 2008....of course they have to get all the teams to sign first.
Here's some info direct from Yasuhiro Wada, BAR...er I mean Hondas big cheese..
[QUOTE]Q. Wada-san, what was the thinking behind taking the controlling interest in BAR?
Yasuhiro Wada: As you know we already have a 45-percent holding in the team and also the tobacco situation, BAT have to leave sooner or later, and we have been discussing the situation and we thought the team's stability was very important and sooner or later we would. To me zero to 45 is a big difference, but 45 to 100 is not that much!
Q. Also can you tell us more about this potential second team, everyone wants to know about it?
YW: I wish I could tell more but this is an independent team already doing some racing activities and they are keen to enter Formula One. We agree with what they are aiming for and their objectives we have finally decided to do the full support, maybe not just engine supply but on top of that the technical assistance.
Q. When do you think we will know more about that?
YW: I think we will have to wait for the team to announce. Our part is already said, I think they are finalising all the details so it is hopefully going to be happening soon.
Q. Owning BAR means you are already putting a lot of money into the team, but are you not worried that it might become a big spending war with your compatriots here?
YW: We are not expecting to spend that much. I think we will spend a reasonable amount of money to make the team stronger but nothing more than that.[/QUOTE]
I have to think it's one of the existing GP2 teams that wants to step up...Super Nova...maybe Arden?
| hikeeba | 10-08-2005 10:30 AM |
Definitely a GP2 team. Who else could it be, and from where? GP2 just makes sense. Interesting, very interesting.
| tdm74 | 10-08-2005 11:06 AM |
[QUOTE=AndyRoo]I would be very happy to see Anthony Davidson get the 2nd seat at the 11th team (and proceed to crush Taku) :)
His racing seat is long overdue.
- andrew[/QUOTE]
I definetely think Anthony is good evough to race in F1, but he and Sato were pretty evenly matched in F3, when they were both at Carlin(I think) so I am not sure he will crush him.
His racing seat is long overdue.
- andrew[/QUOTE]
I definetely think Anthony is good evough to race in F1, but he and Sato were pretty evenly matched in F3, when they were both at Carlin(I think) so I am not sure he will crush him.
| Ferg | 10-11-2005 09:54 AM |
Latest news on the proposed team.
[QUOTE]New Team Set to Run Same Chassis as BAR
By Jonathan Noble Tuesday, 11 October 2005 13:20
The second Honda-powered Formula One team are set to run versions of next year's BAR008 chassis, Autosport-Atlas has learned.
The team are planning to enter F1 in 2006 but, if they fail to reach that target, work will continue for an entry in 2007.
Sources close to the negotiations have told Autosport-Atlas that the team are now likely to have close parity to the BAR team in terms of both cars and engines, despite original suggestions that they would run the 2005 BAR007 car. This is because the new Honda V8 engine will not actually fit into this year's chassis.
It is believed that Honda, who now own the entire BAR team, are planning to sell the design project for next year's BAR008 car to the new outfit, so they can prepare their chassis for 2006. If the plans fall through for next year, then the car can still be used as a basis for their 2007 challenger.
The Concorde Agreement stipulates that Formula One teams must design and build their own car. However, the new team may get around this regulation by purchasing the design plans prior to committing their entry to the 2006 World Championship - so they actually 'own' their design when they become an official F1 outfit.
The actual identity of the team owners has not been confirmed, but there is mounting speculation that investors from Dubai are funding the project, and that it could have title sponsorship from the Emirates airline company.
Sources claim that the investors are linked with the Emirates Group president, Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum, who was involved in the collapsed bid to set up a McLaren junior team. Al Maktoum is the brother of A1 Grand Prix founder Sheik Maktoum bin Hasher bin Maktoum Al Maktoum.
According to speculation, the Emirates Group president tried to buy British American Tobacco's shares in BAR earlier this year but was blocked by Honda because of the Japanese car manufacturer's own plans to take over BAR.
However, Honda are believed to have continued talks with Al Maktoum about the team. This has led to them standing on the verge of getting on the grid for 2006 - with Honda customer engines and Honda-backed Takuma Sato driving.
Although the team may be financed by money from Dubai, it is believed that the cars will be built by Japanese racing car constructor Dome and will be run at the tracks by a small off-shoot operation from Super Aguri, the team set up by former Grand Prix driver Aguri Suzuki that runs in the Indy Racing League and Japanese GTs.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]New Team Set to Run Same Chassis as BAR
By Jonathan Noble Tuesday, 11 October 2005 13:20
The second Honda-powered Formula One team are set to run versions of next year's BAR008 chassis, Autosport-Atlas has learned.
The team are planning to enter F1 in 2006 but, if they fail to reach that target, work will continue for an entry in 2007.
Sources close to the negotiations have told Autosport-Atlas that the team are now likely to have close parity to the BAR team in terms of both cars and engines, despite original suggestions that they would run the 2005 BAR007 car. This is because the new Honda V8 engine will not actually fit into this year's chassis.
It is believed that Honda, who now own the entire BAR team, are planning to sell the design project for next year's BAR008 car to the new outfit, so they can prepare their chassis for 2006. If the plans fall through for next year, then the car can still be used as a basis for their 2007 challenger.
The Concorde Agreement stipulates that Formula One teams must design and build their own car. However, the new team may get around this regulation by purchasing the design plans prior to committing their entry to the 2006 World Championship - so they actually 'own' their design when they become an official F1 outfit.
The actual identity of the team owners has not been confirmed, but there is mounting speculation that investors from Dubai are funding the project, and that it could have title sponsorship from the Emirates airline company.
Sources claim that the investors are linked with the Emirates Group president, Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum, who was involved in the collapsed bid to set up a McLaren junior team. Al Maktoum is the brother of A1 Grand Prix founder Sheik Maktoum bin Hasher bin Maktoum Al Maktoum.
According to speculation, the Emirates Group president tried to buy British American Tobacco's shares in BAR earlier this year but was blocked by Honda because of the Japanese car manufacturer's own plans to take over BAR.
However, Honda are believed to have continued talks with Al Maktoum about the team. This has led to them standing on the verge of getting on the grid for 2006 - with Honda customer engines and Honda-backed Takuma Sato driving.
Although the team may be financed by money from Dubai, it is believed that the cars will be built by Japanese racing car constructor Dome and will be run at the tracks by a small off-shoot operation from Super Aguri, the team set up by former Grand Prix driver Aguri Suzuki that runs in the Indy Racing League and Japanese GTs.[/QUOTE]
| artkevin | 10-11-2005 10:28 AM |
Man this whole thing is confusing. I saw and artilce were Aguri Suzuki flat denied that he was involved in this. But he also stated that he didn't have the money but made no mention of money from Dubai.
I need to take a nap.
I need to take a nap.
| Ferg | 10-11-2005 10:36 AM |
Usually when a story starts mentioning the folks from Dubai I begin to have serious doubts about it's validity.
They seem to be the curse of death in motorsports.
They seem to be the curse of death in motorsports.
| artkevin | 10-11-2005 11:03 AM |
I agree with you Ferg w/ the ties to the middle east but it looks like Sheik Maktoum bin Hasher bin Maktoum Al Maktoum ([SIZE=1]I love copy and paste[/SIZE]) has done a fantastic job with A1GP from everything I have read.
| Ferg | 10-11-2005 02:15 PM |
Since it seems the Gentlemen from Dubai are throwing their cash at Honda...the off mentioned McLaren Junior Team is now getting it's funding from Japan...
Oh yeah, and Jean Alesi is going to run it.
Honest, I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried.
[QUOTE]Alesi-McLaren Rumours Mounting
By Jonathan Noble
Speculation that Jean Alesi will become the figurehead for the McLaren second team planned for 2007 is mounting.
The Frenchman, who was a guest of McLaren for the Japanese Grand Prix, refused to comment on the widespread speculation last month when he was first linked with the role by Autosport, but there are now suggestions he has been formally offered the position by Japanese finance company Direxiv, who are funding the team.
According to a report in Autosprint, Alesi has been asked to make a decision within the next week about whether he wants to become the team manager of the operation. It is likely that Alesi will retire from racing when his contract with Mercedes-Benz in the DTM expires at the end of 2006.
Furthermore, Autosport-Atlas understands that McLaren are pushing ahead their plans with Direxiv with renewed vigour.
Sources claim that the recent announcement that Honda are being involved in plans for an 11th team has acted as a wake-up call for McLaren to ensure that they secure the last remaining slot for 2007. The Concorde Agreement has a strict limit of 12 teams being allowed to race in F1.
It is understood that the Direxiv operation will be based at McLaren's old factory in Woking, using much of the equipment that the team used before they moved to the new McLaren Technology Centre.[/QUOTE]
So we're looking at a very strange 2007 starting grid...if [i]all[/i] the rumors are to be believed.
Ferrari Raikkonen & Rossi
McLaren Montoya & Schumacher
Honda Button & Barrichello
Toyota Trulli & Schumacher
Renault Alonso & Kovalainen (how do you spell that name?)
BMW Heidfeld & ???
Williams Webber & Rosberg
Red Bull Klein & ??? (have to imagine DC hanging it up after 06)
Honda Jr Sato & ???
Red Bull Jr Speed & Luizi
McLaren Jr Wurz & Hamilton (look up Lewis Hamilton ;) )
Midland...um
:huh:
Oh yeah, and Jean Alesi is going to run it.
Honest, I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried.
[QUOTE]Alesi-McLaren Rumours Mounting
By Jonathan Noble
Speculation that Jean Alesi will become the figurehead for the McLaren second team planned for 2007 is mounting.
The Frenchman, who was a guest of McLaren for the Japanese Grand Prix, refused to comment on the widespread speculation last month when he was first linked with the role by Autosport, but there are now suggestions he has been formally offered the position by Japanese finance company Direxiv, who are funding the team.
According to a report in Autosprint, Alesi has been asked to make a decision within the next week about whether he wants to become the team manager of the operation. It is likely that Alesi will retire from racing when his contract with Mercedes-Benz in the DTM expires at the end of 2006.
Furthermore, Autosport-Atlas understands that McLaren are pushing ahead their plans with Direxiv with renewed vigour.
Sources claim that the recent announcement that Honda are being involved in plans for an 11th team has acted as a wake-up call for McLaren to ensure that they secure the last remaining slot for 2007. The Concorde Agreement has a strict limit of 12 teams being allowed to race in F1.
It is understood that the Direxiv operation will be based at McLaren's old factory in Woking, using much of the equipment that the team used before they moved to the new McLaren Technology Centre.[/QUOTE]
So we're looking at a very strange 2007 starting grid...if [i]all[/i] the rumors are to be believed.
Ferrari Raikkonen & Rossi
McLaren Montoya & Schumacher
Honda Button & Barrichello
Toyota Trulli & Schumacher
Renault Alonso & Kovalainen (how do you spell that name?)
BMW Heidfeld & ???
Williams Webber & Rosberg
Red Bull Klein & ??? (have to imagine DC hanging it up after 06)
Honda Jr Sato & ???
Red Bull Jr Speed & Luizi
McLaren Jr Wurz & Hamilton (look up Lewis Hamilton ;) )
Midland...um
:huh:
| BriDrive | 10-11-2005 02:39 PM |
That really would be an interesting alternate reality wouldn't it Ferg? Nice bit of piecing it all together!
I would, for the sake of interest in this scenario, add Hayanari Shimoda to Honda Jr.
That's not a rumor however...just a wish on my part.
BriDrive
I would, for the sake of interest in this scenario, add Hayanari Shimoda to Honda Jr.
That's not a rumor however...just a wish on my part.
BriDrive
| Ferg | 10-11-2005 07:32 PM |
[QUOTE=BriDrive]That really would be an interesting alternate reality wouldn't it Ferg? Nice bit of piecing it all together![/QUOTE]
It sure would be :D
Looks like one big piece of the puzzle, Schumacher moving to McLaren for 2007 isn't on the cards...at least according to his manager, Mr 20%.
[QUOTE]Weber: Schumacher May Retire After 2008
By Reuters Tuesday, 11 October 2005 20:30
Michael Schumacher's manager Willi Weber believes the seven-time Formula One World Champion will probably retire at the end of the 2008 season.
In an interview to appear in Wednesday's Stuttgarter Nachrichten newspaper, Weber also ruled out Schumacher moving from Ferrari to McLaren, powered by Mercedes engines.
"I can't say now that it is with any certainty but I think that the end of 2008 is probably the end for him (Schumacher)," the paper quotes Weber as saying. "But I could be wrong."
He added that Schumacher, whose Ferrari contract runs through 2006, would not decide his future plans until next year. Weber also said the German driver was not going to McLaren.
"Just stop it now," Weber said. "Right now I can rule out this link. It doesn't make any sense... First of all, Michael feels totally comfortable at Ferrari. And secondly, Schumacher wouldn't be better to market at Mercedes than Ferrari.
"Mercedes symbolises luxury cars and Ferrari sports cars - and that image extends to every corner of Brazil. At Ferrari, everyone thinks about races, motorsport, Formula One. For a driver's image that's much better."
Schumacher's five-year reign as World Champion was ended by Spaniard Fernando Alonso, who became the youngest Champion in the sport's history in Brazil last month. The German is third in the standings behind Alonso and Finn Kimi Raikonnen.[/QUOTE]
So Kimi and Michael at Ferrari then?
I think not.
It sure would be :D
Looks like one big piece of the puzzle, Schumacher moving to McLaren for 2007 isn't on the cards...at least according to his manager, Mr 20%.
[QUOTE]Weber: Schumacher May Retire After 2008
By Reuters Tuesday, 11 October 2005 20:30
Michael Schumacher's manager Willi Weber believes the seven-time Formula One World Champion will probably retire at the end of the 2008 season.
In an interview to appear in Wednesday's Stuttgarter Nachrichten newspaper, Weber also ruled out Schumacher moving from Ferrari to McLaren, powered by Mercedes engines.
"I can't say now that it is with any certainty but I think that the end of 2008 is probably the end for him (Schumacher)," the paper quotes Weber as saying. "But I could be wrong."
He added that Schumacher, whose Ferrari contract runs through 2006, would not decide his future plans until next year. Weber also said the German driver was not going to McLaren.
"Just stop it now," Weber said. "Right now I can rule out this link. It doesn't make any sense... First of all, Michael feels totally comfortable at Ferrari. And secondly, Schumacher wouldn't be better to market at Mercedes than Ferrari.
"Mercedes symbolises luxury cars and Ferrari sports cars - and that image extends to every corner of Brazil. At Ferrari, everyone thinks about races, motorsport, Formula One. For a driver's image that's much better."
Schumacher's five-year reign as World Champion was ended by Spaniard Fernando Alonso, who became the youngest Champion in the sport's history in Brazil last month. The German is third in the standings behind Alonso and Finn Kimi Raikonnen.[/QUOTE]
So Kimi and Michael at Ferrari then?
I think not.
| hikeeba | 10-12-2005 10:01 AM |
Dubai? M Schumacher at McLaren in 2008?!? The hypothetic 2008 grid?!?!? The return of the Tyrell P34 in F1?!?!?!?
(Head esplode)
(Head esplode)
| Ferg | 10-12-2005 10:06 AM |
You know as cool as the P34 was I always thought the stillborn six wheeled Williams FW08B was cooler.
[IMG]http://www.amdmodels.net/amdkits/williams/fw08b/r_c/Williams%20FW08B%20Six%20wheeler%20-%2082%20Silverstone%20test%20-%20Laffite.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.amdmodels.net/amdkits/williams/fw08b/r_c/Williams%20FW08B%20Six%20wheeler%20-%2082%20Silverstone%20test%20-%20Laffite.jpg[/IMG]
| artkevin | 10-12-2005 10:35 AM |
Ferg, where in the world did you find that pic?
I have never even heard of that car before!
I have never even heard of that car before!
| Ferg | 10-12-2005 10:42 AM |
Just a Google image search. Most people have never heard of the Williams six wheeler...it's one of those obscure technical footnotes in F1.
Apparently the added traction from the extra pair if rear wheels (as well as the extra ground effect of the longer wheelbase) was increadible and Williams had every intention of racing it...
Of course it never saw any action....as soon as the FIA saw Williams test it (and the times it was doing) they banned it on the spot.
An interesting side note is that when the FW08B ran at the Goodwood Festival of Speed in the mid nineties it set the fastest time ever on the hillclimb...which held for years until Nick Heidfeld beat it driving a modern McLaren. :lol:
:)
Apparently the added traction from the extra pair if rear wheels (as well as the extra ground effect of the longer wheelbase) was increadible and Williams had every intention of racing it...
Of course it never saw any action....as soon as the FIA saw Williams test it (and the times it was doing) they banned it on the spot.
An interesting side note is that when the FW08B ran at the Goodwood Festival of Speed in the mid nineties it set the fastest time ever on the hillclimb...which held for years until Nick Heidfeld beat it driving a modern McLaren. :lol:
:)
| artkevin | 10-12-2005 10:56 AM |
Nice.
Kind of like Bernie's Fan car.
[IMG]http://www.ideageneration.co.uk/PRESS%20OFFICE/f1%20april/f1%20april%20web%20ready%20images/web%20ready%20-%20f1%20exclusives/tech-vs-sport-fan-car_sprea.gif[/IMG]
Kind of like Bernie's Fan car.
[IMG]http://www.ideageneration.co.uk/PRESS%20OFFICE/f1%20april/f1%20april%20web%20ready%20images/web%20ready%20-%20f1%20exclusives/tech-vs-sport-fan-car_sprea.gif[/IMG]
| Ferg | 10-12-2005 11:01 AM |
FIA, "So what's the fan for again?"
Gordon Murray, "Well it's certainly NOT for sucking air out from underneath the car. It's for cooling the engine. Honest."
I remember reading something from Mario Andretti about whenever the fan car would rocket past his Lotus he'd be pelted with pebbles and rocks it had sucked up and shot out the back!
:eek: :lol:
Gordon Murray, "Well it's certainly NOT for sucking air out from underneath the car. It's for cooling the engine. Honest."
I remember reading something from Mario Andretti about whenever the fan car would rocket past his Lotus he'd be pelted with pebbles and rocks it had sucked up and shot out the back!
:eek: :lol:
| artkevin | 10-12-2005 11:21 AM |
I heard in testing the would run another car right behind it so you could never get a really good look at it and how it worked. Didn't they sat that is was there for cooling? :lol:
| Ferg | 10-31-2005 09:50 PM |
More news on the second Honda team.
[QUOTE]Suzuki to unveil new team plans
By Jonathan Noble October 31st 2005, 11:31 GMT
Former Grand Prix driver Aguri Suzuki is set to confirm his plans tomorrow to enter a Honda-backed team in Formula One, although it is not clear whether he still intends to make the jump next year or wait until 2007.
Suzuki has been linked with the project ever since Honda first announced it prior to the Japanese Grand Prix, and work has been progressing behind the scenes to get the outfit on the grid for 2006.
But although sources claim the funding is in place for the operation - and the team have agreed a deal to operate out of the former TWR headquarters in Leafield - there are growing doubts that the team will be able to get on the grid next year, and if that remains their intention.
They have to lodge their entry to the 2006 Formula One World Championship by November 15 - and should the plans fall through after that date then they would forfeit $12 million of the $48 million deposit that needs to be lodged with the FIA.
The main problem the team faces on being able to make it onto the grid in 2006 is that they will have to manufacture the car they plan to run.
It is believed the original intention was for the operation to run customer versions of the BAR008, with support from the BAR team, but that cannot happen because of limitations in the Concorde Agreement.
A meeting of the Formula One Commission confirmed last week that there remain strict stipulation on what a constructor must do in F1.
FIA president Max Mosley told autosport.com: "You must have the intellectual property rights to your car, and the parts must not be designed or manufactured by another constructor. They can be (made) by a third party like Lola, but not a constructor. You cannot just buy a car."
BAR boss Nick Fry said today that his team were still working through the plans with the Suzuki operation on what needed to be done for next year - and admitted it was not going to be an easy task for the outfit to make it onto the grid in 2006.
"Starting a new Formula One team is a huge undertaking," he said. "It requires the hiring of a lot of people, detailed logistics and the purchase of a large amount of equipment some of which has long lead times.
"What we are doing with the new team at the moment is working through exactly what needs to be done between now and the beginning of next season. It's all still at the detailed planning stage and any announcements will come from the new team rather than us. We are the supporting act here, rather than the leaders."
The Suzuki team are believed to be keen to use the expertise from Japanese racing car constructor Dome to help with the build of the car, but it will be a tall order for the team to be created from scratch and build a car in the short time frame left before next year. It would be more logical for Dome to assist in plans for 2007.
F1 testing is due to resume in November and the team would likely need to get a car onto the track this year if it was going to be ready for an entry in 2006.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Suzuki to unveil new team plans
By Jonathan Noble October 31st 2005, 11:31 GMT
Former Grand Prix driver Aguri Suzuki is set to confirm his plans tomorrow to enter a Honda-backed team in Formula One, although it is not clear whether he still intends to make the jump next year or wait until 2007.
Suzuki has been linked with the project ever since Honda first announced it prior to the Japanese Grand Prix, and work has been progressing behind the scenes to get the outfit on the grid for 2006.
But although sources claim the funding is in place for the operation - and the team have agreed a deal to operate out of the former TWR headquarters in Leafield - there are growing doubts that the team will be able to get on the grid next year, and if that remains their intention.
They have to lodge their entry to the 2006 Formula One World Championship by November 15 - and should the plans fall through after that date then they would forfeit $12 million of the $48 million deposit that needs to be lodged with the FIA.
The main problem the team faces on being able to make it onto the grid in 2006 is that they will have to manufacture the car they plan to run.
It is believed the original intention was for the operation to run customer versions of the BAR008, with support from the BAR team, but that cannot happen because of limitations in the Concorde Agreement.
A meeting of the Formula One Commission confirmed last week that there remain strict stipulation on what a constructor must do in F1.
FIA president Max Mosley told autosport.com: "You must have the intellectual property rights to your car, and the parts must not be designed or manufactured by another constructor. They can be (made) by a third party like Lola, but not a constructor. You cannot just buy a car."
BAR boss Nick Fry said today that his team were still working through the plans with the Suzuki operation on what needed to be done for next year - and admitted it was not going to be an easy task for the outfit to make it onto the grid in 2006.
"Starting a new Formula One team is a huge undertaking," he said. "It requires the hiring of a lot of people, detailed logistics and the purchase of a large amount of equipment some of which has long lead times.
"What we are doing with the new team at the moment is working through exactly what needs to be done between now and the beginning of next season. It's all still at the detailed planning stage and any announcements will come from the new team rather than us. We are the supporting act here, rather than the leaders."
The Suzuki team are believed to be keen to use the expertise from Japanese racing car constructor Dome to help with the build of the car, but it will be a tall order for the team to be created from scratch and build a car in the short time frame left before next year. It would be more logical for Dome to assist in plans for 2007.
F1 testing is due to resume in November and the team would likely need to get a car onto the track this year if it was going to be ready for an entry in 2006.[/QUOTE]
| Ferg | 11-01-2005 09:58 AM |
New team is official!
[QUOTE]Suzuki confirms new team
By Jonathan Noble November 1st 2005, 07:39 GMT
Former Grand Prix driver Aguri Suzuki has confirmed that he is behind plans for a second Honda team to be on the grid next season.
The Japanese driver made the announcement at a press conference at the Honda Welcome Plaza in Tokyo on Tuesday morning.
Suzuki revealed that the new outfit lodged its application to enter the 2006 Formula One World Championship last Wednesday, and the team now face a race against time to get on the grid for the start of the new season.
However, despite having submitted an entry, the team does not yet have a name.
Having lodged their application, should the team fail to make it onto the grid next year then they will lose $12 million of the $48 million they have had to lodge with the FIA.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Suzuki pleads for Honda, BAR help
By Jonathan Noble November 1st 2005, 08:40 GMT
Former Grand Prix driver Aguri Suzuki has pleaded with Honda and BAR to do all they can to help his new Formula One team get on the grid next season.
The former Japanese driver officially unveiled his plans for his Super Aguri Formula One outfit in a press conference in Tokyo on Tuesday, where he announced that he had lodged an entry for the 2006 Formula One World Championship.
But Suzuki admitted that he faced an uphill battle to get his team onto the grid for next season - and claimed it would be impossible without big help from Honda and the BAR outfit.
"On October 26, I submitted the application," he said. "But I will not know if it is approved or not until early December.
"If it is approved I will plan to have an entry confirmation presentation at the end of January or beginning of February.
"But as far as the chassis is concerned there is no way we can compete unless there is help from Honda (and BAR). I'm just hoping that we will have a workforce of at least 100 before the season opener."
Suzuki confirmed that the team will be based in Tokyo, although the race operation will operate out of the former TWR headquarters at Leafield in Oxfordshire.
And although he said a deal was in place for Bridgestone tyres and Honda V8 engines, and the chassis will be called an AGURI, he did not reveal exactly what design the car would be.
It is almost certainly too late for him to design a car from scratch and although there has been speculation that he would run customer versions of next year's BAR008 chassis, that will not be straightforward because of limitations in the Concorde Agreement.
However, Suzuki dropped several hints that the customer route was his likely only option to make it onto the grid next year - because to do so would need big help from Honda and BAR.
"I have made several trips to Britain in the last few months and as far as the paperwork (application) is concerned I am clear," he said. "But there is so little else we can do without Honda's assistance."
Suzuki did not reveal who the backers of the project were, although he did make reference to the fact that he is CEO of a firm called A Company Ltd., which will run the operation.
Speaking about the budget for the team he said: "It is never enough in F1."
However, it is likely that the team are not short of finance. The fact that they have willingly lodged their entry for next year, with major doubts that they can actually make it onto the grid in time, means they have accepted that there is a high chance of losing $12 million of their $48 million deposit if they delay their entry until 2007.
In terms of drivers, Suzuki confirmed that negotiations were ongoing with Takuma Sato but made no mention of the other men linked with the second seat - Anthony Davidson or Adam Carroll.
Suzuki claimed that he originally started thinking about the F1 project in February of this year, but momentum behind the plans only picked up in September, around the Brazilian Grand Prix time, when Sato's sacking by BAR was confirmed.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Suzuki confirms new team
By Jonathan Noble November 1st 2005, 07:39 GMT
Former Grand Prix driver Aguri Suzuki has confirmed that he is behind plans for a second Honda team to be on the grid next season.
The Japanese driver made the announcement at a press conference at the Honda Welcome Plaza in Tokyo on Tuesday morning.
Suzuki revealed that the new outfit lodged its application to enter the 2006 Formula One World Championship last Wednesday, and the team now face a race against time to get on the grid for the start of the new season.
However, despite having submitted an entry, the team does not yet have a name.
Having lodged their application, should the team fail to make it onto the grid next year then they will lose $12 million of the $48 million they have had to lodge with the FIA.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Suzuki pleads for Honda, BAR help
By Jonathan Noble November 1st 2005, 08:40 GMT
Former Grand Prix driver Aguri Suzuki has pleaded with Honda and BAR to do all they can to help his new Formula One team get on the grid next season.
The former Japanese driver officially unveiled his plans for his Super Aguri Formula One outfit in a press conference in Tokyo on Tuesday, where he announced that he had lodged an entry for the 2006 Formula One World Championship.
But Suzuki admitted that he faced an uphill battle to get his team onto the grid for next season - and claimed it would be impossible without big help from Honda and the BAR outfit.
"On October 26, I submitted the application," he said. "But I will not know if it is approved or not until early December.
"If it is approved I will plan to have an entry confirmation presentation at the end of January or beginning of February.
"But as far as the chassis is concerned there is no way we can compete unless there is help from Honda (and BAR). I'm just hoping that we will have a workforce of at least 100 before the season opener."
Suzuki confirmed that the team will be based in Tokyo, although the race operation will operate out of the former TWR headquarters at Leafield in Oxfordshire.
And although he said a deal was in place for Bridgestone tyres and Honda V8 engines, and the chassis will be called an AGURI, he did not reveal exactly what design the car would be.
It is almost certainly too late for him to design a car from scratch and although there has been speculation that he would run customer versions of next year's BAR008 chassis, that will not be straightforward because of limitations in the Concorde Agreement.
However, Suzuki dropped several hints that the customer route was his likely only option to make it onto the grid next year - because to do so would need big help from Honda and BAR.
"I have made several trips to Britain in the last few months and as far as the paperwork (application) is concerned I am clear," he said. "But there is so little else we can do without Honda's assistance."
Suzuki did not reveal who the backers of the project were, although he did make reference to the fact that he is CEO of a firm called A Company Ltd., which will run the operation.
Speaking about the budget for the team he said: "It is never enough in F1."
However, it is likely that the team are not short of finance. The fact that they have willingly lodged their entry for next year, with major doubts that they can actually make it onto the grid in time, means they have accepted that there is a high chance of losing $12 million of their $48 million deposit if they delay their entry until 2007.
In terms of drivers, Suzuki confirmed that negotiations were ongoing with Takuma Sato but made no mention of the other men linked with the second seat - Anthony Davidson or Adam Carroll.
Suzuki claimed that he originally started thinking about the F1 project in February of this year, but momentum behind the plans only picked up in September, around the Brazilian Grand Prix time, when Sato's sacking by BAR was confirmed.[/QUOTE]
| artkevin | 11-01-2005 09:59 AM |
F1racing.net is reporting that they are trying to get it done for 2006. I hope they can.
[url]http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=102548[/url]
[url]http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=102548[/url]
| Ferg | 11-01-2005 10:00 AM |
More....
[QUOTE]Drivers not a priority, says Suzuki
By Jonathan Noble November 1st 2005, 09:45 GMT
Aguri Suzuki has said that finding two drivers for his new Formula One team is not a priority at the moment, as he faces a race against time to actually get cars on the grid next season.
The former Grand Prix driver unveiled his plans for Super Aguri Formula One in a press conference in Tokyo on Tuesday, although admitted that beyond a customer engine deal with Honda and a supply of Bridgestone tyres, little else was firmed up for 2006.
News of the team first leaked out prior to the Japanese Grand Prix when ex-BAR driver Takuma Sato claimed he had been offered a drive with the team. Suzuki himself has admitted, however, that nothing is definite about his driver line-up yet.
"We are at a nice stage in talks with Takuma," said Suzuki. "I'd like to see him racing with a good team and he'll want that too. Our goal is to build a team he will want to drive for."
BAR test drivers Anthony Davidson and Adam Carroll are also strongly linked with drives at the team, although Japanese newspapers have also speculated that Super Aguri IRL driver Kosuke Matsuura could also be in the frame.
"It could be two Japanese drivers or one Japanese driver," explained Suzuki. "It could even be two foreign drivers. Right now we are in a race with time and we have other priorities."
Suzuki did make it clear, however, that he wanted his team to have a strong Japanese flavour - although he was keen to distance himself from talk that it would be a Honda junior team.
"We are a Japanese team - that's very important," he said. "But we aren't Honda's B-team by any means. Our goal is to have the Japanese 'rising sun' raised above the podium."[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Suzuki tight-lipped about F1 sponsors
November 1st 2005, 10:22 GMT
The new Japanese team who have applied to join Formula One from 2006 remained coy on Tuesday about where they will get their money from.
"Formula One is like a money pit," team boss Aguri Suzuki told reporters. "However much you spend it's not enough so we are aware of the need for strong backing.
"We are in talks with several possible sponsors and those talks are progressing smoothly but I can't make specific comments until we've received the FIA's approval."
Media reports have suggested that Japanese Internet and communications conglomerate Softbank would back the Honda-powered team.
Toyota, the last new team to enter F1 in 2002, have an annual budget estimated at up to $400 million with Ferrari's thought to be in the region of $300 million.
"It's not like I walk about with that sort of money on me so clearly we recognise that sponsorship is a crucial factor," said Suzuki.
"We aim to get the right people on board who will help us be on the grid in 2006."
Honda, who will run their own Formula One team in 2006 after buying out BAR, are set to supply engines and technical support to the new team.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Drivers not a priority, says Suzuki
By Jonathan Noble November 1st 2005, 09:45 GMT
Aguri Suzuki has said that finding two drivers for his new Formula One team is not a priority at the moment, as he faces a race against time to actually get cars on the grid next season.
The former Grand Prix driver unveiled his plans for Super Aguri Formula One in a press conference in Tokyo on Tuesday, although admitted that beyond a customer engine deal with Honda and a supply of Bridgestone tyres, little else was firmed up for 2006.
News of the team first leaked out prior to the Japanese Grand Prix when ex-BAR driver Takuma Sato claimed he had been offered a drive with the team. Suzuki himself has admitted, however, that nothing is definite about his driver line-up yet.
"We are at a nice stage in talks with Takuma," said Suzuki. "I'd like to see him racing with a good team and he'll want that too. Our goal is to build a team he will want to drive for."
BAR test drivers Anthony Davidson and Adam Carroll are also strongly linked with drives at the team, although Japanese newspapers have also speculated that Super Aguri IRL driver Kosuke Matsuura could also be in the frame.
"It could be two Japanese drivers or one Japanese driver," explained Suzuki. "It could even be two foreign drivers. Right now we are in a race with time and we have other priorities."
Suzuki did make it clear, however, that he wanted his team to have a strong Japanese flavour - although he was keen to distance himself from talk that it would be a Honda junior team.
"We are a Japanese team - that's very important," he said. "But we aren't Honda's B-team by any means. Our goal is to have the Japanese 'rising sun' raised above the podium."[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Suzuki tight-lipped about F1 sponsors
November 1st 2005, 10:22 GMT
The new Japanese team who have applied to join Formula One from 2006 remained coy on Tuesday about where they will get their money from.
"Formula One is like a money pit," team boss Aguri Suzuki told reporters. "However much you spend it's not enough so we are aware of the need for strong backing.
"We are in talks with several possible sponsors and those talks are progressing smoothly but I can't make specific comments until we've received the FIA's approval."
Media reports have suggested that Japanese Internet and communications conglomerate Softbank would back the Honda-powered team.
Toyota, the last new team to enter F1 in 2002, have an annual budget estimated at up to $400 million with Ferrari's thought to be in the region of $300 million.
"It's not like I walk about with that sort of money on me so clearly we recognise that sponsorship is a crucial factor," said Suzuki.
"We aim to get the right people on board who will help us be on the grid in 2006."
Honda, who will run their own Formula One team in 2006 after buying out BAR, are set to supply engines and technical support to the new team.[/QUOTE]
| hikeeba | 11-01-2005 10:19 AM |
Thanks for the update Ferg. It's looking more and more like we won't see a second Honda-powered team on the grid next year.
| Harvey_Mushman | 11-01-2005 04:39 PM |
Did anyone else get a chuckle out of Suzuki's new team name? Super Aguri Formula One: It's Super Fast Go Time! or some other excitable Japanese slogan immediately popped into my head.
| artkevin | 11-01-2005 04:42 PM |
Yeah, I picked up on that too. They love adjectives :lol:
| meebs | 11-01-2005 05:48 PM |
[QUOTE=Harvey_Mushman]Did anyone else get a chuckle out of Suzuki's new team name? Super Aguri Formula One: It's Super Fast Go Time! or some other excitable Japanese slogan immediately popped into my head.[/QUOTE]
LOL, he should change it to, "Super Fast Go Time!"
LOL, he should change it to, "Super Fast Go Time!"
| Tensen | 11-01-2005 06:13 PM |
i'm still just amuzed someone named suzuki is driving for honda...thats like a guy named chevy racing a ford...or a guy named porsche racing a bmw...or a guy named volkswagen...being named volkswagen :)
| nKoan | 11-01-2005 06:25 PM |
[QUOTE=Tensen]i'm still just amuzed someone named suzuki is driving for honda...thats like a guy named chevy racing a ford...or a guy named porsche racing a bmw...or a guy named volkswagen...being named volkswagen :)[/QUOTE]
Suzuki is a family name in Japan. Almost as common as Jones or Smith here. Honda and Toyota are too. Its really not that uncommon. There are probably tons of guys named Honda working for Toyota, and vice versa. The only real car company in the states with a name based off a last name is Ford, but "confusion" like this is not uncommon. I think Olds was also the Oldsmobile's founders last name as well.
Here is an old Subaru ad I found.
[url]http://www.neurosybir.net/nkoan/images/oldstuff/ford-subaru.jpg[/url]
Suzuki is a family name in Japan. Almost as common as Jones or Smith here. Honda and Toyota are too. Its really not that uncommon. There are probably tons of guys named Honda working for Toyota, and vice versa. The only real car company in the states with a name based off a last name is Ford, but "confusion" like this is not uncommon. I think Olds was also the Oldsmobile's founders last name as well.
Here is an old Subaru ad I found.
[url]http://www.neurosybir.net/nkoan/images/oldstuff/ford-subaru.jpg[/url]
| MattDell | 11-01-2005 06:42 PM |
[QUOTE=nKoan]Suzuki is a family name in Japan. Almost as common as Jones or Smith here. Honda and Toyota are too. Its really not that uncommon. There are probably tons of guys named Honda working for Toyota, and vice versa. The only real car company in the states with a name based off a last name is Ford, but "confusion" like this is not uncommon. I think Olds was also the Oldsmobile's founders last name as well.
Here is an old Subaru ad I found.
[url]http://www.neurosybir.net/nkoan/images/oldstuff/ford-subaru.jpg[/url][/QUOTE]
I have a facebook friend named Subaru. :cool:
Here is an old Subaru ad I found.
[url]http://www.neurosybir.net/nkoan/images/oldstuff/ford-subaru.jpg[/url][/QUOTE]
I have a facebook friend named Subaru. :cool:
| Tensen | 11-01-2005 06:44 PM |
[QUOTE=nKoan]Suzuki is a family name in Japan. Almost as common as Jones or Smith here. [/QUOTE]
I realize that...I'm just being silly :)
I realize that...I'm just being silly :)
| Ferg | 11-04-2005 09:49 AM |
Things moving along...but still no word on if the team will be on the grid by next year.
[QUOTE]Super Aguri appoint technical chief
By Jonathan Noble November 4th 2005, 10:25 GMT
Aguri Suzuki's new Formula One team have already moved into their new facilities at Leafield in Oxfordshire and have appointed a chief technical officer, autosport.com has learned.
Although the identity of the team was only made public earlier this week, major progress has been made in sorting out Super Aguri Formula One's infrastructure as they face a race against time to get a car on the grid next year.
Sources close to the team have revealed that the team are now working hard at the former Arrows/TWR facility in Leafield, although they are actually only renting space at the facility. They are situated in space that was not used by Leafield's current owners Menard Engineering - which was where Arrows used to prepare their chassis.
The work at Leafield is being co-ordinated by former Arrows and McLaren engineer Mark Preston, who has being working hard in recent months setting up a company with the intention of getting an F1 car on the grid.
He has told autosport.com that he has been appointed as the Super Aguri's Chief Technical Officer, but has declined to add further details about the project.
"I can confirm that I am Chief Technical Officer, but I cannot say more than that," he said. "I am putting together a team of staff and work is underway." [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Super Aguri appoint technical chief
By Jonathan Noble November 4th 2005, 10:25 GMT
Aguri Suzuki's new Formula One team have already moved into their new facilities at Leafield in Oxfordshire and have appointed a chief technical officer, autosport.com has learned.
Although the identity of the team was only made public earlier this week, major progress has been made in sorting out Super Aguri Formula One's infrastructure as they face a race against time to get a car on the grid next year.
Sources close to the team have revealed that the team are now working hard at the former Arrows/TWR facility in Leafield, although they are actually only renting space at the facility. They are situated in space that was not used by Leafield's current owners Menard Engineering - which was where Arrows used to prepare their chassis.
The work at Leafield is being co-ordinated by former Arrows and McLaren engineer Mark Preston, who has being working hard in recent months setting up a company with the intention of getting an F1 car on the grid.
He has told autosport.com that he has been appointed as the Super Aguri's Chief Technical Officer, but has declined to add further details about the project.
"I can confirm that I am Chief Technical Officer, but I cannot say more than that," he said. "I am putting together a team of staff and work is underway." [/QUOTE]
| Ferg | 11-15-2005 07:05 PM |
Latest news.
[QUOTE]Super Aguri waiting for green light
November 15th 2005, 17:46 GMT
The deadline for entries to next year's Formula One Championship passed on Tuesday with a question mark still hanging over a planned 11th team.
The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA), who have confirmed receiving an application from the Japanese Super Aguri team, said they will not publish the final entry list until the beginning of December.
Four existing teams - BAR, Sauber, Jordan and Minardi - will change their names subject to the approval of all the other six.
Sauber will be known as BMW Sauber F1, after the Swiss team were taken over by the German carmaker, while Jordan have been renamed Midland F1 and Red Bull-owned Minardi are to become Squadra Toro Rosso.
BAR, who will be 100 percent owned by Honda, have yet to reveal what they will be called.
Super Aguri, run by former Formula One racer Aguri Suzuki, have already begun advertising for race and test team personnel and engineers to work for them at the former Arrows factory in Leafield, England.
"Nothing beats the challenge of Formula One. And the new Super Aguri F1 team is more than equal to it," said an advertisement in Autosport magazine last week.
However, while Honda are set to supply engines and technical support, the new team must design and manufacture their own car under current rules.
That will be a tough task if they are to be ready for the first race of the season in Bahrain on March 12 and many Formula One insiders expect them to seek permission to use a car designed by someone else - such as a modified BAR.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Super Aguri waiting for green light
November 15th 2005, 17:46 GMT
The deadline for entries to next year's Formula One Championship passed on Tuesday with a question mark still hanging over a planned 11th team.
The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA), who have confirmed receiving an application from the Japanese Super Aguri team, said they will not publish the final entry list until the beginning of December.
Four existing teams - BAR, Sauber, Jordan and Minardi - will change their names subject to the approval of all the other six.
Sauber will be known as BMW Sauber F1, after the Swiss team were taken over by the German carmaker, while Jordan have been renamed Midland F1 and Red Bull-owned Minardi are to become Squadra Toro Rosso.
BAR, who will be 100 percent owned by Honda, have yet to reveal what they will be called.
Super Aguri, run by former Formula One racer Aguri Suzuki, have already begun advertising for race and test team personnel and engineers to work for them at the former Arrows factory in Leafield, England.
"Nothing beats the challenge of Formula One. And the new Super Aguri F1 team is more than equal to it," said an advertisement in Autosport magazine last week.
However, while Honda are set to supply engines and technical support, the new team must design and manufacture their own car under current rules.
That will be a tough task if they are to be ready for the first race of the season in Bahrain on March 12 and many Formula One insiders expect them to seek permission to use a car designed by someone else - such as a modified BAR.[/QUOTE]
| artkevin | 11-15-2005 08:18 PM |
I guess we'll have to wait until December to find out how many cars will be on the grid next year...
| Ferg | 11-23-2005 10:05 AM |
Things starting to look rather desperate for the new team...
[QUOTE]Super Aguri could run old Arrows cars
By Alan Baldwin November 23rd 2005, 09:59 GMT
The Japanese Super Aguri team seeking to enter Formula One with Honda engines next year is negotiating to buy four-year-old Arrows cars from former Minardi boss Paul Stoddart.
"We are negotiating with them, it's the only thing that makes sense given the time scale that they have got," the Australian told Reuters on Wednesday.
"It (running the Arrows cars) is something that is very, very do-able and the car would be able to run in Bahrain," added Stoddart.
"Any other option is either against the Concorde Agreement or very difficult to achieve."
Stoddart bought five Arrows A23 cars and most of that team's equipment in 2003 when his now-defunct rivals folded. Although he has since sold Minardi to Red Bull, he kept the Arrows chassis and intellectual property rights.
The cars were designed mostly by Mike Coughlan, who is now at McLaren.
Super Aguri, run by Japan's former Formula One racer Aguri Suzuki, have taken over the old Arrows factory at Leafield in central England and are recruiting staff for what would be Formula One's 11th team.
They are expected to run Japan's Takuma Sato after he lost his drive at Honda-backed BAR and have made a formal application to enter the 2006 Championship.
The season starts in Bahrain on March 12.
V10 Engines
Honda, who bought BAR from founders British American Tobacco this year and will change that British-based team's name for 2006, have agreed to provide Suzuki's team with engines and technical support.
However, under the confidential 'Concorde Agreement' governing Formula One, teams must compete with their own car and not one designed or manufactured by another existing entrant.
Minardi toyed with the idea of running the Arrows themselves in 2003 and Stoddart said that the Cosworth-powered cars were already up to that year's specification and it would take little to develop them to 2005 levels.
"We (Minardi) were running an '02 car up to Imola '05," said the Australian, attending Minardi's final test at Italy's Vallelunga circuit near Rome. "We didn't change an awful lot on it in that period."
The engine rules are changing for 2006, with the V10 units replaced by V8s. However teams can continue using restricted V10s, although the manufacturers have said they will not do so.
"If they (Super Aguri) go V10, they can compensate for any shortcomings in the chassis and it gives them a year to design their own car," said Stoddart.
"To put a Honda V10 into the back of that chassis is very do-able," he added. "It would be an interim car and if they used a V10 they would be credible."
Honda Racing Development president Yasuhiro Wada said on Tuesday that a V10 running with the proposed restrictor would be more powerful than one of the new V8s at present and expected modifications to be made.
"Every engine manufacturer agrees the proposed restrictor size isn't correct and we believe the FIA will apply a fairer equivalent," he said. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Super Aguri could run old Arrows cars
By Alan Baldwin November 23rd 2005, 09:59 GMT
The Japanese Super Aguri team seeking to enter Formula One with Honda engines next year is negotiating to buy four-year-old Arrows cars from former Minardi boss Paul Stoddart.
"We are negotiating with them, it's the only thing that makes sense given the time scale that they have got," the Australian told Reuters on Wednesday.
"It (running the Arrows cars) is something that is very, very do-able and the car would be able to run in Bahrain," added Stoddart.
"Any other option is either against the Concorde Agreement or very difficult to achieve."
Stoddart bought five Arrows A23 cars and most of that team's equipment in 2003 when his now-defunct rivals folded. Although he has since sold Minardi to Red Bull, he kept the Arrows chassis and intellectual property rights.
The cars were designed mostly by Mike Coughlan, who is now at McLaren.
Super Aguri, run by Japan's former Formula One racer Aguri Suzuki, have taken over the old Arrows factory at Leafield in central England and are recruiting staff for what would be Formula One's 11th team.
They are expected to run Japan's Takuma Sato after he lost his drive at Honda-backed BAR and have made a formal application to enter the 2006 Championship.
The season starts in Bahrain on March 12.
V10 Engines
Honda, who bought BAR from founders British American Tobacco this year and will change that British-based team's name for 2006, have agreed to provide Suzuki's team with engines and technical support.
However, under the confidential 'Concorde Agreement' governing Formula One, teams must compete with their own car and not one designed or manufactured by another existing entrant.
Minardi toyed with the idea of running the Arrows themselves in 2003 and Stoddart said that the Cosworth-powered cars were already up to that year's specification and it would take little to develop them to 2005 levels.
"We (Minardi) were running an '02 car up to Imola '05," said the Australian, attending Minardi's final test at Italy's Vallelunga circuit near Rome. "We didn't change an awful lot on it in that period."
The engine rules are changing for 2006, with the V10 units replaced by V8s. However teams can continue using restricted V10s, although the manufacturers have said they will not do so.
"If they (Super Aguri) go V10, they can compensate for any shortcomings in the chassis and it gives them a year to design their own car," said Stoddart.
"To put a Honda V10 into the back of that chassis is very do-able," he added. "It would be an interim car and if they used a V10 they would be credible."
Honda Racing Development president Yasuhiro Wada said on Tuesday that a V10 running with the proposed restrictor would be more powerful than one of the new V8s at present and expected modifications to be made.
"Every engine manufacturer agrees the proposed restrictor size isn't correct and we believe the FIA will apply a fairer equivalent," he said. [/QUOTE]
| hikeeba | 11-23-2005 12:37 PM |
Thanks Ferg. The plot thickens...
Although Suzuki appears to be turning things up a notch, I am beginning to believe that they won't be on the grid for 2005. Isn't the stipulation fo the team designing and building their own car a major sticking point here? Would the FIA actually consider giving them a pass on this?
My buddy stated that he thought it was an awful lot of effort to go through to keep Takuma in F1. I do not believe the soul purpose of putting together this team is to keep Sato racing. But then, what is their motivation? Why are they trying so hard to get this up and running for 2006 rather than waiting a season? I can't see Honda pushing the issue that hard. Could it be the wishes of the financial backer? isn't a good chunck of the backing coming from Dubai or somewhere like that? Pardon me for not going back and re-reading the thread, but I thought the '2nd Honda' team had a Middle-Eastern financial backer.
I think it would be great if they can get onto the grid for 2006. But what is the rush? From what I've read, I can't believe that they are going to be anything close to competitive.
Sorry about all the questions, typos, etc. I love F1, but I am not an F1 guru. I am just trying to understand the situation and the team's motivation. Of course, if I had an opportunity to work with an F1 team, motivation wouldn't be a factor. Is the team being directed by pure passion?
Although Suzuki appears to be turning things up a notch, I am beginning to believe that they won't be on the grid for 2005. Isn't the stipulation fo the team designing and building their own car a major sticking point here? Would the FIA actually consider giving them a pass on this?
My buddy stated that he thought it was an awful lot of effort to go through to keep Takuma in F1. I do not believe the soul purpose of putting together this team is to keep Sato racing. But then, what is their motivation? Why are they trying so hard to get this up and running for 2006 rather than waiting a season? I can't see Honda pushing the issue that hard. Could it be the wishes of the financial backer? isn't a good chunck of the backing coming from Dubai or somewhere like that? Pardon me for not going back and re-reading the thread, but I thought the '2nd Honda' team had a Middle-Eastern financial backer.
I think it would be great if they can get onto the grid for 2006. But what is the rush? From what I've read, I can't believe that they are going to be anything close to competitive.
Sorry about all the questions, typos, etc. I love F1, but I am not an F1 guru. I am just trying to understand the situation and the team's motivation. Of course, if I had an opportunity to work with an F1 team, motivation wouldn't be a factor. Is the team being directed by pure passion?
| artkevin | 11-23-2005 12:51 PM |
Although Sato is an issue I think Honda would like to have more of a say when it comes to voting with the FIA. Ferrari has Red Bull, Toyota has Midland and Mclaren/Merc seem to be headed the same direction. The longer the new team is in I think the bigger say they might have in meetings. Honda doesn't want to be left out.
| hikeeba | 11-23-2005 01:53 PM |
I see, Ican understand that. Thanks for pointing that out for me artkevin.
If Aguri buys teh Arrows cars, then they own the design and the rights to intellectual properties for the cars, etc. Would that be enough to get them by the FIA stipulation that teams must design and build their own cars?
Bear with me. I more confused than usual this morning. Trying to look at NASIOC [B]and[/B] get a bunch of work done before the holiday...
If Aguri buys teh Arrows cars, then they own the design and the rights to intellectual properties for the cars, etc. Would that be enough to get them by the FIA stipulation that teams must design and build their own cars?
Bear with me. I more confused than usual this morning. Trying to look at NASIOC [B]and[/B] get a bunch of work done before the holiday...
| artkevin | 11-23-2005 02:43 PM |
I don't see how the Arrows/Aguri thing would work. The FIA already stated that Augri can't use the BAR 007 chasis becuase they didn't design it. Me don't no no more. :confused:
| Ferg | 11-23-2005 04:45 PM |
It's definately a grey area....I don't really understand it either.
Midland were supposed to run a car designed and built by Dallara but didn't. The FIA were going to allow that apparently. Minardi almost ran the the old Arrows chassis...so if you own the rights to a design it doesn't matter....? Do the rules make a distinction between selling the chassis to another team or selling the rights?
The more I think I know about F1 the less I actually do.
Midland were supposed to run a car designed and built by Dallara but didn't. The FIA were going to allow that apparently. Minardi almost ran the the old Arrows chassis...so if you own the rights to a design it doesn't matter....? Do the rules make a distinction between selling the chassis to another team or selling the rights?
The more I think I know about F1 the less I actually do.
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