| Don-HRD | 02-22-2007 04:07 PM |
HRD will contest the Speed World Challenge Touring Car series with a pair of WRX's
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THIS IS NOT A PRESS RELEASE- it is simply a heads-up for the Subie community.
Colorado based Horsepower Research and Development is currently aquiring and preparing two Impreza WRX's to compete in The Speed World Challenge Touring Car series. Current plans are to have the cars tested by mid-August and then debut the cars at Round 9 Road Atlanta followed by Round 10 at Laguna Seca.
Construction details are still being sorted out, but plans are to use DMS dampers with relocated suspension points, AEM engine management and AIM data ack, Wilwood or AP are the current brake options . Powertrain is blueprinted stock as per the rules. All fabrication, assembly and paint is being done in-house.
Sponsors have yet to be named, drivers names will be released at a later date.
Colorado based Horsepower Research and Development is currently aquiring and preparing two Impreza WRX's to compete in The Speed World Challenge Touring Car series. Current plans are to have the cars tested by mid-August and then debut the cars at Round 9 Road Atlanta followed by Round 10 at Laguna Seca.
Construction details are still being sorted out, but plans are to use DMS dampers with relocated suspension points, AEM engine management and AIM data ack, Wilwood or AP are the current brake options . Powertrain is blueprinted stock as per the rules. All fabrication, assembly and paint is being done in-house.
Sponsors have yet to be named, drivers names will be released at a later date.
| Scoobyslack1 | 02-22-2007 04:14 PM |
Good luck, won't be easy for such a heavy car.
| parker/slc/gc8fan | 02-22-2007 04:30 PM |
Definetly wishing you good luck. How do the rules work out for the WRX in that class?
Are you planning on campaigning the 08 season as-well?
Are you planning on campaigning the 08 season as-well?
| Don-HRD | 02-22-2007 04:31 PM |
Current min weight is 2750, only 50lbs heavier than the SRT-4 and lighter than the Audi, so I dont feel especially handicapped ;)
We will be running the entire 08 season, sorry for the ommission.
We will be running the entire 08 season, sorry for the ommission.
| Impreza01 | 02-22-2007 04:37 PM |
Why now instead of the next generation WRX?
| pio!pio! | 02-22-2007 04:39 PM |
Is AIM data acquisition allowed now? I thought it wasn't, but I haven't kept up with the rules package for year.
| Don-HRD | 02-22-2007 04:45 PM |
In order to use the AIM dash and data we have to upgrade the Scutineering package to sample all the channels at a cost of about 2k per car.
We could easily use Motec ECU and Dash, but we dont sell Motec here in our shop, so it has no value to our customers, but we do sell and support AEM and AIM.
We could easily use Motec ECU and Dash, but we dont sell Motec here in our shop, so it has no value to our customers, but we do sell and support AEM and AIM.
| Impreza01 | 02-22-2007 04:49 PM |
Do you have a website to your shop where we can follow the news?
| parker/slc/gc8fan | 02-22-2007 04:54 PM |
[QUOTE=Don-HRD;17145839]Current min weight is 2750, only 50lbs heavier than the SRT-4 and lighter than the Audi, so I dont feel especially handicapped ;)
We will be running the entire 08 season, sorry for the ommission.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, except those arent the cars to worry about. (they havent won the championship three plus years).
I know you'll have a fight in that series, but i'm rooting for ya.
We will be running the entire 08 season, sorry for the ommission.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, except those arent the cars to worry about. (they havent won the championship three plus years).
I know you'll have a fight in that series, but i'm rooting for ya.
| Don-HRD | 02-22-2007 05:01 PM |
I am just now setting up a website for the race team, should be up ina week or so.
| Don-HRD | 02-22-2007 05:06 PM |
Minimum weight is not the issue with the Mazda's or Acuras- its simple driver and team experience and talent. I certianly dont think we will have anything for Realtime or Mazda initially, but the entire reason we picked the WRX is it will be a very competetive platform to start and with driver and car development should do better.
| Impreza01 | 02-22-2007 05:07 PM |
Hrmmm, are you guys going to do anything about the gearbox?
| Don-HRD | 02-22-2007 05:13 PM |
We are allowed the SCCA Pro Rally kit, dog engagement
| Impreza01 | 02-22-2007 05:16 PM |
Cool, so those things will hold up to abuse. I'm guessing this is your website? [url]http://hrd-power.com/default.aspx[/url]
| Don-HRD | 02-22-2007 05:18 PM |
actually nope thats NOT mine- not a web-guy myself so dont be too harsh ;) the new site will be done by someone who actually knows what they are doing
hrd-performance.com is the correct site
hrd-performance.com is the correct site
| MPME | 02-22-2007 05:20 PM |
[QUOTE=Don-HRD;17146008]In order to use the AIM dash and data we have to upgrade the Scutineering package to sample all the channels at a cost of about 2k per car.
We could easily use Motec ECU and Dash, but we dont sell Motec here in our shop, so it has no value to our customers, but we do sell and support AEM and AIM.[/QUOTE]
If you haven't done so already, be sure to get a waiver to run a non-Motec or Pectel ECU per section 2.7.8.6 of the PRR.
We could easily use Motec ECU and Dash, but we dont sell Motec here in our shop, so it has no value to our customers, but we do sell and support AEM and AIM.[/QUOTE]
If you haven't done so already, be sure to get a waiver to run a non-Motec or Pectel ECU per section 2.7.8.6 of the PRR.
| cooleyjb | 02-22-2007 05:22 PM |
Sweet. I look forward to seeing hte cars compete. Hopefully SCCA will be nice to you guys considering the WRX has the two toughest things to overcome it in the production based series racing. Turbo and AWD. Even if they are in an econobox sedan.
Good luck with the racing.
Good luck with the racing.
| Don-HRD | 02-22-2007 05:23 PM |
Already spoken to Shawn, and gotten a verbal OK, pending my having at least one conversation, probably involving my credit card numbers, with Colin at Stack.
| SubaruCO | 02-22-2007 05:26 PM |
[QUOTE=MPME;17146514]If you haven't done so already, be sure to get a waiver to run a non-Motec or Pectel ECU per section 2.7.8.6 of the PRR.[/QUOTE]
Sweet Marshall, thanks for chiming in. :) I'm sure you are one of the most valuable resources here for developing within the Speed Series.
Sweet Marshall, thanks for chiming in. :) I'm sure you are one of the most valuable resources here for developing within the Speed Series.
| Don-HRD | 02-22-2007 05:30 PM |
While I am thinking about it, we are doing this with absolutely NO help from SOA STI or SPT. I have in all honesty never met with such apathy to motorsports as I have with Subaru. In dealing with Porsche, Chevrolet, Ford, BMW, etc you will easily find support and input from the manufacturers at the Pro level. I cannot even get someone from SOA to call me back! Maybe I am spoiled after having dealt with Porsche etc, but we are trying to race thier product in a nationally televised series, you would think they would at least have the common courtesy to call back, even if just to tell me to sod off.
Also, I have run Mazdas and BMWs in Touring, and I worked for a few years at 3R, so I know a little about this series ;)
Also, I have run Mazdas and BMWs in Touring, and I worked for a few years at 3R, so I know a little about this series ;)
| Impreza01 | 02-22-2007 05:41 PM |
[QUOTE=Don-HRD;17146642]While I am thinking about it, we are doing this with absolutely NO help from SOA STI or SPT. I have in all honesty never met with such apathy to motorsports as I have with Subaru. In dealing with Porsche, Chevrolet, Ford, BMW, etc you will easily find support and input from the manufacturers at the Pro level. I cannot even get someone from SOA to call me back! Maybe I am spoiled after having dealt with Porsche etc, but we are trying to race thier product in a nationally televised series, you would think they would at least have the common courtesy to call back, even if just to tell me to sod off.
Also, I have run Mazdas and BMWs in Touring, and I worked for a few years at 3R, so I know a little about this series ;)[/QUOTE]
Sadly, I think you'd get a better response from SOJ's STI division. I think as long as you tell them that this is essentially the highest form of road racing (barring NASCAR), and that exposure will help sell more Imprezas, they'd be willing to force SOA to do something.
Also, I have run Mazdas and BMWs in Touring, and I worked for a few years at 3R, so I know a little about this series ;)[/QUOTE]
Sadly, I think you'd get a better response from SOJ's STI division. I think as long as you tell them that this is essentially the highest form of road racing (barring NASCAR), and that exposure will help sell more Imprezas, they'd be willing to force SOA to do something.
| MPME | 02-22-2007 06:11 PM |
[QUOTE=SubaruCO;17146579]Sweet Marshall, thanks for chiming in. :) I'm sure you are one of the most valuable resources here for developing within the Speed Series.[/QUOTE]
I've obviously done a good job of falsely representing myself, then... :p
If I can help in any way, [EMAIL="[email�protected]"]PM me[/EMAIL].
I've obviously done a good job of falsely representing myself, then... :p
If I can help in any way, [EMAIL="[email�protected]"]PM me[/EMAIL].
| MPME | 02-22-2007 06:11 PM |
[QUOTE=Don-HRD;17146551]Already spoken to Shawn, and gotten a verbal OK, pending my having at least one conversation, probably involving my credit card numbers, with Colin at Stack.[/QUOTE]
Sweet--Shawn rocks, as does Colin.
Sweet--Shawn rocks, as does Colin.
| goto_racing | 02-22-2007 07:58 PM |
It will be exciting to see the Impreza back in SWCTC, and two is even more exciting. Best of luck to you guys, and welcome to the AWD family.
Chris Lock
Chris Lock
| PaulRex | 02-22-2007 08:06 PM |
I follow the series and watch it whenever its on speedchannel, I cant wait to watch you guys compete! Hopefully Ill get to catch an event in person
Goodluck guys and thanks for seeing the potential in these cars!
Goodluck guys and thanks for seeing the potential in these cars!
| blue blurr | 02-22-2007 09:22 PM |
uhm... Justin Hall as a driver maybe? Or even Andrew Caddell in there too... All fellow Spec Miata racers :)
| Don-HRD | 02-22-2007 09:44 PM |
Drivers are two relatively unkown rookies, one from Canadian FF and the other local club racing.There is a chance of a third car for arrive and drive or "guest stars" should funding allow, and in that case there are a couple of drivers I would like to put into the car- my friend Chris Sarian, for one, and a couple other talented drivers from other series.
| TurboRX | 02-23-2007 06:17 PM |
exciting news!
| silver arrow | 02-23-2007 08:29 PM |
Pictures please.
| PA04STI | 02-23-2007 09:47 PM |
Sounds Great nice to see Subies getting more national coverage and npw even a two car team...
IrishMike has laid the seed and now a two car team...
I am hoping if you don't already have SOA funding that SOA would throw some funding your way.
They need to start showing what these cars can do on the road course...
Good Luck see you at MidOhio for ALMS...will be looking for your pit to check out the Rexs...
Matt
IrishMike has laid the seed and now a two car team...
I am hoping if you don't already have SOA funding that SOA would throw some funding your way.
They need to start showing what these cars can do on the road course...
Good Luck see you at MidOhio for ALMS...will be looking for your pit to check out the Rexs...
Matt
| makofoto | 02-23-2007 10:19 PM |
Matt ... read the earlier posts where Don didn't even get his phone calls returned from SOA. On the other hand, I know for a fact that SOA monitors these forums ... and they think we're crazy in our devotion. Yet they don't take advantage of it ... or they do, in knowing that they don't have to do anything and we'll keep on buying and supporting their products. :mad:
| Impreza01 | 02-23-2007 10:23 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto;17160749]Matt ... read the earlier posts where Don didn't even get his phone calls returned from SOA. On the other hand, I know for a fact that SOA monitors these forums ...[/QUOTE]
I smell pitchforks and torches on these forums...
I smell pitchforks and torches on these forums...
| PA04STI | 02-23-2007 11:42 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto;17160749]Matt ... read the earlier posts where Don didn't even get his phone calls returned from SOA. On the other hand, I know for a fact that SOA monitors these forums ... and they think we're crazy in our devotion. Yet they don't take advantage of it ... or they do, in knowing that they don't have to do anything and we'll keep on buying and supporting their products. :mad:[/QUOTE]
Even if its just business for SOA...What better marketing tool then your car winning Speed Touring or doing well or even just getting the national coverage...Plus there sales have been doing very good lately...
It's a shame...SOA dust the cobwebs off and get out the wallet...We are not saying full backing but come on give them money so you can put a big Subaru sticker on the hood and each side....Would make a better commercial then the tree huging ones you have now...Christ I almost want to go to an Indiglo Girls concert and save a tree...lol
Matt
Even if its just business for SOA...What better marketing tool then your car winning Speed Touring or doing well or even just getting the national coverage...Plus there sales have been doing very good lately...
It's a shame...SOA dust the cobwebs off and get out the wallet...We are not saying full backing but come on give them money so you can put a big Subaru sticker on the hood and each side....Would make a better commercial then the tree huging ones you have now...Christ I almost want to go to an Indiglo Girls concert and save a tree...lol
Matt
| Don-HRD | 02-24-2007 12:11 AM |
[quote=PA04STI;17161398]Even if its just business for SOA...What better marketing tool then your car winning Speed Touring or doing well or even just getting the national coverage...Plus there sales have been doing very good lately...
It's a shame...SOA dust the cobwebs off and get out the wallet...We are not saying full backing but come on give them money so you can put a big Subaru sticker on the hood and each side....Would make a better commercial then the tree huging ones you have now...Christ I almost want to go to an Indiglo Girls concert and save a tree...lol
Matt[/quote]
AMEN Brother!! Preach it out loud!
I honestly do not expect SOA, SPT, or STI to cut me a big fat check based on me being a good guy putting together a team when they have (probably)never heard of me. However, I did expect a phone call back, even if they wanted to tell me they were not interested.
Any support from them would be awesome- but things like credit with them for replacement parts, or even heavily discounted parts would be a huge, practically immeasurable benefit to a team like ours, especially in Touring Car where the entire race is basically a fistfight from flag to flag. And I am not talking about giving us big-ticket items-forget engines, transmissions, Brembo calipers, or BBS wheels. Think more along the lines of fenders, door skins, head and tailights, steering racks, lower a-arms, core supports, etc that WILL get damaged throughout the season. Having immediate access to these parts for cheap(or free!) can literally mean racing or watching. THATS our true benefit from factory backing. Yeah sure it would be effing grade-A awesome to have them cut us out a huge check for throwing thier name on the door and doing some PR stuff, but hey who wouldnt?
It's a shame...SOA dust the cobwebs off and get out the wallet...We are not saying full backing but come on give them money so you can put a big Subaru sticker on the hood and each side....Would make a better commercial then the tree huging ones you have now...Christ I almost want to go to an Indiglo Girls concert and save a tree...lol
Matt[/quote]
AMEN Brother!! Preach it out loud!
I honestly do not expect SOA, SPT, or STI to cut me a big fat check based on me being a good guy putting together a team when they have (probably)never heard of me. However, I did expect a phone call back, even if they wanted to tell me they were not interested.
Any support from them would be awesome- but things like credit with them for replacement parts, or even heavily discounted parts would be a huge, practically immeasurable benefit to a team like ours, especially in Touring Car where the entire race is basically a fistfight from flag to flag. And I am not talking about giving us big-ticket items-forget engines, transmissions, Brembo calipers, or BBS wheels. Think more along the lines of fenders, door skins, head and tailights, steering racks, lower a-arms, core supports, etc that WILL get damaged throughout the season. Having immediate access to these parts for cheap(or free!) can literally mean racing or watching. THATS our true benefit from factory backing. Yeah sure it would be effing grade-A awesome to have them cut us out a huge check for throwing thier name on the door and doing some PR stuff, but hey who wouldnt?
| Impreza01 | 02-24-2007 04:47 AM |
::crosses fingers:: Maybe they're just having meetings about what to do and how involved? :alien:
| boosted_rs | 02-24-2007 07:47 AM |
Excellent news.
More info would be nice on the suspension mounting points relocation. But I guess that's a secret ;)
I'm sure you will be very happy with your involvement with DMS. Updates on your evolution with the set-up as the season progress would be nice.
Once again, way to go :banana:
More info would be nice on the suspension mounting points relocation. But I guess that's a secret ;)
I'm sure you will be very happy with your involvement with DMS. Updates on your evolution with the set-up as the season progress would be nice.
Once again, way to go :banana:
| Butt Dyno | 02-24-2007 09:06 AM |
What I don't get is why they are so involved in SCCA T2 (where it doesn't seem like a lot of manufacturers go?) and seem to be completely afraid of this (where Volvo, Cadillac, Mazda, Acura etc are). This is more expensive but a lot more people actually know what it is and watch it. T2 gets on TV once a year for the runoffs and that's about it (AFAIK).
john
john
| cooleyjb | 02-24-2007 09:19 AM |
[QUOTE=ButtDyno;17163120]What I don't get is why they are so involved in SCCA T2 (where it doesn't seem like a lot of manufacturers go?) and seem to be completely afraid of this (where Volvo, Cadillac, Mazda, Acura etc are). This is more expensive but a lot more people actually know what it is and watch it. T2 gets on TV once a year for the runoffs and that's about it (AFAIK).
john[/QUOTE]
Rules seem to be better suited to Subaru in T2. At least recently World-Challenge has not been the best of groups to run an AWD turbo. It will take some time to get the competitive balance working for Subaru in WC and Subaru might be a bit impatient.
Nothing against Marshall, Gary and team but they didn't have a showing that would make Subaru want to return to the series with money for multiple teams. With the way the rules were setup and limited development the STi was 7 seconds off the pace in qualifying on a 90 second course. That's a massive amount of time to make up.
john[/QUOTE]
Rules seem to be better suited to Subaru in T2. At least recently World-Challenge has not been the best of groups to run an AWD turbo. It will take some time to get the competitive balance working for Subaru in WC and Subaru might be a bit impatient.
Nothing against Marshall, Gary and team but they didn't have a showing that would make Subaru want to return to the series with money for multiple teams. With the way the rules were setup and limited development the STi was 7 seconds off the pace in qualifying on a 90 second course. That's a massive amount of time to make up.
| manicmechanic02 | 02-24-2007 09:32 AM |
Its great to see a WRX in swc. Ive wondered for years why subaru hadnt entered a car of their own but by the way they are treating you it seems they just arent intrested. Good luck in the launch, Im looking forward to seeing you guys do us proud.
| makofoto | 02-24-2007 11:08 AM |
It's not that SOA isn't involved in motorsports ... it's just that the largest share of the money goes to ESX and their Subaru drag racing team. Even though the Proven Power Bragging forum gets less hits then us. :furious: I guess they feel that's the area that needs the most support. :rolleyes:
| St0k3d | 02-24-2007 12:35 PM |
can you guys explain why my 2 favorite parts of this car (AWD, turbo) are being considered a dis-advantage in Speed World Challenge?
SOA better sponsor these cars... aside from WRC... this should be 2nd... subarus should be rallying and road racing all day
SOA better sponsor these cars... aside from WRC... this should be 2nd... subarus should be rallying and road racing all day
| Don-HRD | 02-24-2007 12:37 PM |
Yesterday we set the (mostly) stripped shell on jackstands. Monday we will finish stripping it and start to take measurements for the cage. Although we typically bend our own cages by hand on the good ol' Model3, we are going to have a local company CNC bend the hoops to our specs. All the other tubes, gussets, supports, etc we will do in-house. This should allow us to replicate the cages with little drama should we need to build up a new chassis.
Since SOA hasnt responded and I have no time to waste, we got this wreck of a shell from a rally shop south of us. It has minor front end damage and needs the rear quarter replaced, which is no big deal, just a little time and parts. After those repairs are made We will final-fit the cage structure, mock up all the various fittings and systems, including:
carbon fibre rear seat shell, inner door panels, center console/shifter surround, rear firewall, and "package shelf"
Fire system, its lines and controls
Data and chassis harnesses, battery box and other electrical
Drivers seat and control systems
accusump and its lines
brake and fuel lines
Right-side and window nets
etc etc.
Once the mock-up is complete the shell goes over to Blast-Tech to be media blasted and then straight into the paint booth. Interior , engine bay, trunk, underside, etc will be painted in a light grey single stage epoxy. Exterior livery will be finalized once all sponsor arrangments are made, but right now we are leaning towards flat black with neon orange rockers, mirrors, wing end plates, and front and rear lips for car 1 and neon green trim for car 2.
The second shell should arrive in 2-3 weeks, and it will undergo the same treatment. Since we are CNC'ing as much as possible( roll cage hoops, varios brackets and fittings), duplicating the 1st car should be no problem and move along quickly.
Since SOA hasnt responded and I have no time to waste, we got this wreck of a shell from a rally shop south of us. It has minor front end damage and needs the rear quarter replaced, which is no big deal, just a little time and parts. After those repairs are made We will final-fit the cage structure, mock up all the various fittings and systems, including:
carbon fibre rear seat shell, inner door panels, center console/shifter surround, rear firewall, and "package shelf"
Fire system, its lines and controls
Data and chassis harnesses, battery box and other electrical
Drivers seat and control systems
accusump and its lines
brake and fuel lines
Right-side and window nets
etc etc.
Once the mock-up is complete the shell goes over to Blast-Tech to be media blasted and then straight into the paint booth. Interior , engine bay, trunk, underside, etc will be painted in a light grey single stage epoxy. Exterior livery will be finalized once all sponsor arrangments are made, but right now we are leaning towards flat black with neon orange rockers, mirrors, wing end plates, and front and rear lips for car 1 and neon green trim for car 2.
The second shell should arrive in 2-3 weeks, and it will undergo the same treatment. Since we are CNC'ing as much as possible( roll cage hoops, varios brackets and fittings), duplicating the 1st car should be no problem and move along quickly.
| shemoves | 02-24-2007 12:44 PM |
great news this is :D
| Don-HRD | 02-24-2007 01:09 PM |
[quote=St0k3d;17164168]can you guys explain why my 2 favorite parts of this car (AWD, turbo) are being considered a dis-advantage in Speed World Challenge?
SOA better sponsor these cars... aside from WRC... this should be 2nd... subarus should be rallying and road racing all day[/quote]
Historically SCCA and other racing organizations have been gunshy regarding turbocharged cars competing against NA cars. This is mostly because Porsche, Ford, and Renault opened a HUGE can of whoop-ass back in the 70s and 80s and dominated pretty much every class they decided to enter. And when BMW, ALfa, etc tried to run and hide in the 2.5 litre Challange rather than run against Porsche in Trans-Am, Can-AM, etc, Porsche built a 1500cc 935 that made about 600hp and ran it twice just to prove its point.
SCCA thus was very hesitant to allow turbo cars in Touring Class, which is meant to be the more "affodable" series to run. The arguement that did a lot to win the case is that modern turbo engines can produce the same power at less stress than NA motors with cheaper(ie stock) parts and are therefore more relaible and cheaper for teams to run.
SCCA's Pro Racing has allowed us to run the WRX but has serious restrictions in place meant to keep us at about 300whp, or less. We are limited to 14psi, corrected for altitude, which means that at Laguna at sea level we get 14psi, but here in Denver we run about 11.5. The motors are STOCK- no aftermarket rods, pistons,cams, valves, etc and we are not allowed to port the crap out of the heads or intakes either. And thats not all- every team- turbo or NA- are required to have a set of 5 specified restrictor plates on hand, so that if someone gets too fast or seems to have found power with tuning, SCCA will impose the restrictor to even things back up.
Just to make sure we are not cheating- using traction control, overboosting, whatever- SCCA requires we datalog pretty much everything going on with the car. Since we have elected to use an non-approved EMS and Data system( AEM EMS and AIM MLX dash) we are required to upgrade the SCCA scrutineering system to monitor all the channels SCCA requires- at a cost of about 2k per car. The ironic thing is that we will already be logging all those things on the non-approved AIM system!
SOA better sponsor these cars... aside from WRC... this should be 2nd... subarus should be rallying and road racing all day[/quote]
Historically SCCA and other racing organizations have been gunshy regarding turbocharged cars competing against NA cars. This is mostly because Porsche, Ford, and Renault opened a HUGE can of whoop-ass back in the 70s and 80s and dominated pretty much every class they decided to enter. And when BMW, ALfa, etc tried to run and hide in the 2.5 litre Challange rather than run against Porsche in Trans-Am, Can-AM, etc, Porsche built a 1500cc 935 that made about 600hp and ran it twice just to prove its point.
SCCA thus was very hesitant to allow turbo cars in Touring Class, which is meant to be the more "affodable" series to run. The arguement that did a lot to win the case is that modern turbo engines can produce the same power at less stress than NA motors with cheaper(ie stock) parts and are therefore more relaible and cheaper for teams to run.
SCCA's Pro Racing has allowed us to run the WRX but has serious restrictions in place meant to keep us at about 300whp, or less. We are limited to 14psi, corrected for altitude, which means that at Laguna at sea level we get 14psi, but here in Denver we run about 11.5. The motors are STOCK- no aftermarket rods, pistons,cams, valves, etc and we are not allowed to port the crap out of the heads or intakes either. And thats not all- every team- turbo or NA- are required to have a set of 5 specified restrictor plates on hand, so that if someone gets too fast or seems to have found power with tuning, SCCA will impose the restrictor to even things back up.
Just to make sure we are not cheating- using traction control, overboosting, whatever- SCCA requires we datalog pretty much everything going on with the car. Since we have elected to use an non-approved EMS and Data system( AEM EMS and AIM MLX dash) we are required to upgrade the SCCA scrutineering system to monitor all the channels SCCA requires- at a cost of about 2k per car. The ironic thing is that we will already be logging all those things on the non-approved AIM system!
| Steezy303-HRD | 02-24-2007 01:23 PM |
[quote=silver arrow;17159856]Pictures please.[/quote]
Pictures will be up monday night.
Pictures will be up monday night.
| cooleyjb | 02-24-2007 02:03 PM |
[QUOTE=Don-HRD;17164408]Historically SCCA and other racing organizations have been gunshy regarding turbocharged cars competing against NA cars. This is mostly because Porsche, Ford, and Renault opened a HUGE can of whoop-ass back in the 70s and 80s and dominated pretty much every class they decided to enter. And when BMW, ALfa, etc tried to run and hide in the 2.5 litre Challange rather than run against Porsche in Trans-Am, Can-AM, etc, Porsche built a 1500cc 935 that made about 600hp and ran it twice just to prove its point.
SCCA thus was very hesitant to allow turbo cars in Touring Class, which is meant to be the more "affodable" series to run. The arguement that did a lot to win the case is that modern turbo engines can produce the same power at less stress than NA motors with cheaper(ie stock) parts and are therefore more relaible and cheaper for teams to run.
SCCA's Pro Racing has allowed us to run the WRX but has serious restrictions in place meant to keep us at about 300whp, or less. We are limited to 14psi, corrected for altitude, which means that at Laguna at sea level we get 14psi, but here in Denver we run about 11.5. The motors are STOCK- no aftermarket rods, pistons,cams, valves, etc and we are not allowed to port the crap out of the heads or intakes either. And thats not all- every team- turbo or NA- are required to have a set of 5 specified restrictor plates on hand, so that if someone gets too fast or seems to have found power with tuning, SCCA will impose the restrictor to even things back up.
Just to make sure we are not cheating- using traction control, overboosting, whatever- SCCA requires we datalog pretty much everything going on with the car. Since we have elected to use an non-approved EMS and Data system( AEM EMS and AIM MLX dash) we are required to upgrade the SCCA scrutineering system to monitor all the channels SCCA requires- at a cost of about 2k per car. The ironic thing is that we will already be logging all those things on the non-approved AIM system![/QUOTE]
Thanks for the detailed response.
Also with AWD one has to realize that it is often a HUGE advantage in the wet. Check the Mosport Speed GT results to see how badly the AWD Volvo beat the competition in the rain. All but 2nd place was lapped and he was down almost a lap IIRC. The rest of the year the car was a non-factor. The 2WD guys have a decent argument that if AWD has such an advantage in the wet that there should be some competetive balancing against them in the dry.
Another team that didn't help the cause was Audi of the mid-80's with Hans Stuck driving for them. The turbo quattros were unstoppable for a while.
It's tough for a sanctioning body to make similar cars equal. When you start adding things like turbos where the power curve is different, reliability changes, etc. and AWD where it is such a fundamentally different system you make it very difficult for the sanctioning body.
SCCA thus was very hesitant to allow turbo cars in Touring Class, which is meant to be the more "affodable" series to run. The arguement that did a lot to win the case is that modern turbo engines can produce the same power at less stress than NA motors with cheaper(ie stock) parts and are therefore more relaible and cheaper for teams to run.
SCCA's Pro Racing has allowed us to run the WRX but has serious restrictions in place meant to keep us at about 300whp, or less. We are limited to 14psi, corrected for altitude, which means that at Laguna at sea level we get 14psi, but here in Denver we run about 11.5. The motors are STOCK- no aftermarket rods, pistons,cams, valves, etc and we are not allowed to port the crap out of the heads or intakes either. And thats not all- every team- turbo or NA- are required to have a set of 5 specified restrictor plates on hand, so that if someone gets too fast or seems to have found power with tuning, SCCA will impose the restrictor to even things back up.
Just to make sure we are not cheating- using traction control, overboosting, whatever- SCCA requires we datalog pretty much everything going on with the car. Since we have elected to use an non-approved EMS and Data system( AEM EMS and AIM MLX dash) we are required to upgrade the SCCA scrutineering system to monitor all the channels SCCA requires- at a cost of about 2k per car. The ironic thing is that we will already be logging all those things on the non-approved AIM system![/QUOTE]
Thanks for the detailed response.
Also with AWD one has to realize that it is often a HUGE advantage in the wet. Check the Mosport Speed GT results to see how badly the AWD Volvo beat the competition in the rain. All but 2nd place was lapped and he was down almost a lap IIRC. The rest of the year the car was a non-factor. The 2WD guys have a decent argument that if AWD has such an advantage in the wet that there should be some competetive balancing against them in the dry.
Another team that didn't help the cause was Audi of the mid-80's with Hans Stuck driving for them. The turbo quattros were unstoppable for a while.
It's tough for a sanctioning body to make similar cars equal. When you start adding things like turbos where the power curve is different, reliability changes, etc. and AWD where it is such a fundamentally different system you make it very difficult for the sanctioning body.
| MPME | 02-24-2007 02:38 PM |
[QUOTE=cooleyjb;17163165]Rules seem to be better suited to Subaru in T2. At least recently World-Challenge has not been the best of groups to run an AWD turbo. It will take some time to get the competitive balance working for Subaru in WC and Subaru might be a bit impatient.
Nothing against Marshall, Gary and team but they didn't have a showing that would make Subaru want to return to the series with money for multiple teams. With the way the rules were setup and limited development the STi was 7 seconds off the pace in qualifying on a 90 second course. That's a massive amount of time to make up.[/QUOTE]
Good and true points, but there's an awesome new Technical Director for the series, and a new series President for 2007 (last year, one man held both titles, and has since been shown the door) so I do believe a much better state will exist for new teams to come in and show better than previously allowed.
As a somewhat amusing aside, I had a funny exhange with my man Lawson Aschenbach a month ago regarding the STi returning to Long Beach: [I]"I remember being behind it for a bit during a practice and I've really never seen someone take off out of a corner completely sideways and all four wheels spinning while pulling away from me. I couldn't believe it but then I passed it down the straight...but at least I saw some serious potential."[/I]
Pulling the '06 champ's car in the corners, but losing 7sec between corners was brutal...accounting for the quality upgrades we've been given for 2007, I'm hoping emails from Lawson after Long Beach this year will include his accounts of the STi also passing him down the straights...:banana:
Nothing against Marshall, Gary and team but they didn't have a showing that would make Subaru want to return to the series with money for multiple teams. With the way the rules were setup and limited development the STi was 7 seconds off the pace in qualifying on a 90 second course. That's a massive amount of time to make up.[/QUOTE]
Good and true points, but there's an awesome new Technical Director for the series, and a new series President for 2007 (last year, one man held both titles, and has since been shown the door) so I do believe a much better state will exist for new teams to come in and show better than previously allowed.
As a somewhat amusing aside, I had a funny exhange with my man Lawson Aschenbach a month ago regarding the STi returning to Long Beach: [I]"I remember being behind it for a bit during a practice and I've really never seen someone take off out of a corner completely sideways and all four wheels spinning while pulling away from me. I couldn't believe it but then I passed it down the straight...but at least I saw some serious potential."[/I]
Pulling the '06 champ's car in the corners, but losing 7sec between corners was brutal...accounting for the quality upgrades we've been given for 2007, I'm hoping emails from Lawson after Long Beach this year will include his accounts of the STi also passing him down the straights...:banana:
| MPME | 02-24-2007 02:43 PM |
[QUOTE=Don-HRD;17164408]Historically SCCA and other racing organizations have been gunshy regarding turbocharged cars competing against NA cars. This is mostly because Porsche, Ford, and Renault opened a HUGE can of whoop-ass back in the 70s and 80s and dominated pretty much every class they decided to enter. And when BMW, ALfa, etc tried to run and hide in the 2.5 litre Challange rather than run against Porsche in Trans-Am, Can-AM, etc, Porsche built a 1500cc 935 that made about 600hp and ran it twice just to prove its point.
SCCA thus was very hesitant to allow turbo cars in Touring Class, which is meant to be the more "affodable" series to run. The arguement that did a lot to win the case is that modern turbo engines can produce the same power at less stress than NA motors with cheaper(ie stock) parts and are therefore more relaible and cheaper for teams to run.
SCCA's Pro Racing has allowed us to run the WRX but has serious restrictions in place meant to keep us at about 300whp, or less. We are limited to 14psi, corrected for altitude, which means that at Laguna at sea level we get 14psi, but here in Denver we run about 11.5. The motors are STOCK- no aftermarket rods, pistons,cams, valves, etc and we are not allowed to port the crap out of the heads or intakes either. And thats not all- every team- turbo or NA- are required to have a set of 5 specified restrictor plates on hand, so that if someone gets too fast or seems to have found power with tuning, SCCA will impose the restrictor to even things back up.
Just to make sure we are not cheating- using traction control, overboosting, whatever- SCCA requires we datalog pretty much everything going on with the car. Since we have elected to use an non-approved EMS and Data system( AEM EMS and AIM MLX dash) we are required to upgrade the SCCA scrutineering system to monitor all the channels SCCA requires- at a cost of about 2k per car. The ironic thing is that we will already be logging all those things on the non-approved AIM system![/QUOTE]
Don--[EMAIL="[email�protected]"]PM me[/EMAIL]--I can help with some of the promotional aspects of your efforts, but need to keep those detials off NASIOC. You don't have an email listed in your profile for me to contact you through.
SCCA thus was very hesitant to allow turbo cars in Touring Class, which is meant to be the more "affodable" series to run. The arguement that did a lot to win the case is that modern turbo engines can produce the same power at less stress than NA motors with cheaper(ie stock) parts and are therefore more relaible and cheaper for teams to run.
SCCA's Pro Racing has allowed us to run the WRX but has serious restrictions in place meant to keep us at about 300whp, or less. We are limited to 14psi, corrected for altitude, which means that at Laguna at sea level we get 14psi, but here in Denver we run about 11.5. The motors are STOCK- no aftermarket rods, pistons,cams, valves, etc and we are not allowed to port the crap out of the heads or intakes either. And thats not all- every team- turbo or NA- are required to have a set of 5 specified restrictor plates on hand, so that if someone gets too fast or seems to have found power with tuning, SCCA will impose the restrictor to even things back up.
Just to make sure we are not cheating- using traction control, overboosting, whatever- SCCA requires we datalog pretty much everything going on with the car. Since we have elected to use an non-approved EMS and Data system( AEM EMS and AIM MLX dash) we are required to upgrade the SCCA scrutineering system to monitor all the channels SCCA requires- at a cost of about 2k per car. The ironic thing is that we will already be logging all those things on the non-approved AIM system![/QUOTE]
Don--[EMAIL="[email�protected]"]PM me[/EMAIL]--I can help with some of the promotional aspects of your efforts, but need to keep those detials off NASIOC. You don't have an email listed in your profile for me to contact you through.
| cooleyjb | 02-24-2007 02:56 PM |
[QUOTE=MPME;17165126] [I]"I remember being behind it for a bit during a practice and I've really never seen someone take off out of a corner completely sideways and all four wheels spinning while pulling away from me. I couldn't believe it but then I passed it down the straight...but at least I saw some serious potential."[/I]
:[/QUOTE]
Sorry that needs to be quoted again. That's awesome.
:[/QUOTE]
Sorry that needs to be quoted again. That's awesome.
| Don-HRD | 02-24-2007 05:15 PM |
[quote=MPME;17165165]Don--[EMAIL="[email�protected]"]PM me[/EMAIL]--I can help with some of the promotional aspects of your efforts, but need to keep those detials off NASIOC. You don't have an email listed in your profile for me to contact you through.[/quote]
PM sent
PM sent
| Uber Wagon | 02-25-2007 11:47 AM |
Just curious, where in Colorado are you guys located?
| Don-HRD | 02-25-2007 12:13 PM |
Aurora Colorado
| pio!pio! | 02-26-2007 04:46 AM |
[quote=Don-HRD;17164183]Exterior livery will be finalized once all sponsor arrangments are made, but right now we are leaning towards flat black with neon orange rockers, mirrors, wing end plates, and front and rear lips for car 1 and neon green trim for car 2.
[/quote]
Visions of Bob Stretch's BMWs dancing in my head :)
[/quote]
Visions of Bob Stretch's BMWs dancing in my head :)
| Don-HRD | 02-26-2007 09:22 AM |
LOL! Thats pretty close!I was actually shooting for the flat-black look of the Ferrari 575 test cars. I think that unless we have a title sponsor requiring thier livery/colours I want the cars to be as menacing looking as possible- just look all low, muscular and mean. Currently we are looking at the Team Dynamics ProRace wheels(which are the spec wheel for the BTCC), probably in a gunmetal finish. Of course, we could take the neon theme a little further and have the wheels neon orange/green too!
On a more serious note, I think flat black with neon accents will photo well and if we do a good job with the graphics/logos will accent and define the cars lines rather than obscure them like other colour schemes might. Nothing is set in stone though- once we shoot the flat clear over base we might find that the flat looks completely awful and re-shoot the thing completely, either with gloss clear for that Darth-vader look or something else entirely.
On a more serious note, I think flat black with neon accents will photo well and if we do a good job with the graphics/logos will accent and define the cars lines rather than obscure them like other colour schemes might. Nothing is set in stone though- once we shoot the flat clear over base we might find that the flat looks completely awful and re-shoot the thing completely, either with gloss clear for that Darth-vader look or something else entirely.
| cooleyjb | 02-26-2007 09:44 AM |
[QUOTE=Don-HRD;17180370]LOL! Thats pretty close!I was actually shooting for the flat-black look of the Ferrari 575 test cars. I think that unless we have a title sponsor requiring thier livery/colours I want the cars to be as menacing looking as possible- just look all low, muscular and mean. Currently we are looking at the Team Dynamics ProRace wheels(which are the spec wheel for the BTCC), probably in a gunmetal finish. Of course, we could take the neon theme a little further and have the wheels neon orange/green too!
On a more serious note, I think flat black with neon accents will photo well and if we do a good job with the graphics/logos will accent and define the cars lines rather than obscure them like other colour schemes might. Nothing is set in stone though- once we shoot the flat clear over base we might find that the flat looks completely awful and re-shoot the thing completely, either with gloss clear for that Darth-vader look or something else entirely.[/QUOTE]
Theres a Porsche that is a flat black with orange and yellow. It photographs pretty well. Since the car is so dark you lose some of the detail of the curves in the body occasionally. I'll see if I can drudge up a picture of the car. I haven't shot a photo of it for a while so it may take some time.
On a more serious note, I think flat black with neon accents will photo well and if we do a good job with the graphics/logos will accent and define the cars lines rather than obscure them like other colour schemes might. Nothing is set in stone though- once we shoot the flat clear over base we might find that the flat looks completely awful and re-shoot the thing completely, either with gloss clear for that Darth-vader look or something else entirely.[/QUOTE]
Theres a Porsche that is a flat black with orange and yellow. It photographs pretty well. Since the car is so dark you lose some of the detail of the curves in the body occasionally. I'll see if I can drudge up a picture of the car. I haven't shot a photo of it for a while so it may take some time.
| RaceComp Engineering | 02-26-2007 10:38 PM |
Don you have a PM.
Myles
Myles
| Rally_wgn | 02-27-2007 09:55 AM |
More Subies in SWC FTW!
... Starts making arrangements for a trip to Hotlanta in October...
... Starts making arrangements for a trip to Hotlanta in October...
| Don-HRD | 02-27-2007 11:08 PM |
Well, I should have had pictures up by now, but to be honest we have been a little busy with other things. Its all kinda boring right now, just a shell with the roof off getting fitted out for its cage.
| Don-HRD | 03-03-2007 09:22 PM |
Initial sponsors will be named within a few days.
| chimchimm5 | 04-24-2007 09:05 PM |
Thank you HRD for running a Subie.
It's 4/24/07... did I miss a sponsor announcement?
It's 4/24/07... did I miss a sponsor announcement?
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