| MattDell | 05-11-2006 05:33 PM |
I didn't know this about Ayrton Senna
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[QUOTE]Starkly contrasting to Senna's intense and unyielding will to win on the track, his exploits off it were humane and compassionate. He was renowned for his close relationship with Gerhard Berger, and the two were always playing practical jokes on each other.
In 1992 at Spa-Francorchamps in Belgium when during Friday free practice Erik Comas had crashed heavily on the back straight other drivers drove past the wreckage at high speed. Senna could be seen jumping out of his car and while endangering his own life, sprinting down the track to the wrecked car to reach inside and hit the electrics kill switch, to prevent a possible fire.
In 1993 again at Spa-Francorchamps when Alessandro Zanardi crashed his Lotus heavily at Eau Rouge corner, Senna could again be seen jumping out of his car to help the injured driver.
After Senna's death it was discovered that he had donated millions of dollars to children's charities, a fact that during his life, he had kept secret.
[b]The last race of his life was at Imola, where just a day earlier Roland Ratzenberger, an Austrian driver, had died. When Senna died, doctors found the Austrian flag in his pocket. Senna was sure he would win, and wanted to show his respect for Roland Ratzenberger. Unfortunately Senna never finished the race.[/b][/QUOTE]
Senna was really before my time, but I just found this snippet on Wikipedia and it gave me chills. :(
-Matt
In 1992 at Spa-Francorchamps in Belgium when during Friday free practice Erik Comas had crashed heavily on the back straight other drivers drove past the wreckage at high speed. Senna could be seen jumping out of his car and while endangering his own life, sprinting down the track to the wrecked car to reach inside and hit the electrics kill switch, to prevent a possible fire.
In 1993 again at Spa-Francorchamps when Alessandro Zanardi crashed his Lotus heavily at Eau Rouge corner, Senna could again be seen jumping out of his car to help the injured driver.
After Senna's death it was discovered that he had donated millions of dollars to children's charities, a fact that during his life, he had kept secret.
[b]The last race of his life was at Imola, where just a day earlier Roland Ratzenberger, an Austrian driver, had died. When Senna died, doctors found the Austrian flag in his pocket. Senna was sure he would win, and wanted to show his respect for Roland Ratzenberger. Unfortunately Senna never finished the race.[/b][/QUOTE]
Senna was really before my time, but I just found this snippet on Wikipedia and it gave me chills. :(
-Matt
| artkevin | 05-11-2006 05:53 PM |
Yeah, I've heard the flag story but didn't know the others. We truly lost a great.
| KAX | 05-11-2006 05:59 PM |
wow, that just gave me chills too. Ive always heard Senna was an aggressive person, when they talk about him on TV they make him seem like a hot-head that always lost his temper.
| MPME | 05-11-2006 06:17 PM |
[QUOTE=KAX]wow, that just gave me chills too. Ive always heard Senna was an aggressive person, when they talk about him on TV they make him seem like a hot-head that always lost his temper.[/QUOTE]
The guy was my absolute hero--he was brutally committed on the track, and about the most impactful off of it.
Senna was uncompromising, at best, in his driving, and to helping people and kids in his native Brazil. Not many driver's that I know of to start foundations to teach underpriveleged kids, create sporting leagues for them to participate in (keeping them off of the streets), and really using his fame and fortune to better people.
Rather than making donations to charities, he built his own institutions, hired his family and countrymen to run them, and affected his own social and economical changes to the best of his ability.
Also, and to give you an idea about how big and loved he was, he even had his own cartoon in Brazil, "Seninha," or "Little Senna," a cartoon dedicated to teaching little children the same basic values that you'd find on some of the more positive cartoons I grew up on.
As big as NASCAR is here, none of those drivers are anything close to how big Senna was to his people, much less close to having a national Saturday morning cartoon made in their honor.
The guy was my absolute hero--he was brutally committed on the track, and about the most impactful off of it.
Senna was uncompromising, at best, in his driving, and to helping people and kids in his native Brazil. Not many driver's that I know of to start foundations to teach underpriveleged kids, create sporting leagues for them to participate in (keeping them off of the streets), and really using his fame and fortune to better people.
Rather than making donations to charities, he built his own institutions, hired his family and countrymen to run them, and affected his own social and economical changes to the best of his ability.
Also, and to give you an idea about how big and loved he was, he even had his own cartoon in Brazil, "Seninha," or "Little Senna," a cartoon dedicated to teaching little children the same basic values that you'd find on some of the more positive cartoons I grew up on.
As big as NASCAR is here, none of those drivers are anything close to how big Senna was to his people, much less close to having a national Saturday morning cartoon made in their honor.
| REX8 | 05-11-2006 06:31 PM |
He actually was quoted many times as not wanting to race. He thought no one should the day after...
| REX8 | 05-11-2006 06:33 PM |
A little tribute to Senna...
We now see MS breaking all of his records...what T.V. fails to tell you is the number of races each had competed in.
IIRC: It took Michael about twice the number of races to surpass most of his legacy....
We now see MS breaking all of his records...what T.V. fails to tell you is the number of races each had competed in.
IIRC: It took Michael about twice the number of races to surpass most of his legacy....
| boxerT | 05-11-2006 06:53 PM |
...and close to one million people showed up to his funeral.
| ghschirtz | 05-11-2006 07:06 PM |
Schumacher may have passed Senna's records, and those of others, but none of them, to my knowledge, ever tried to run someone off the road to preserve his championship. Schumacher has done this twice, once succeeding in getting Damon Hill, once getting caught out, i think by Montoya. A tremendous driver, no doubt, but at least one championship he didn't earn.
George
George
| nKoan | 05-11-2006 07:08 PM |
Senna was the man, period. The worlds greatest driver, and a great humanitarian to boot.
| GarySheehan | 05-11-2006 07:28 PM |
[QUOTE=ghschirtz]Schumacher may have passed Senna's records, and those of others, but none of them, to my knowledge, ever tried to run someone off the road to preserve his championship. Schumacher has done this twice, once succeeding in getting Damon Hill, once getting caught out, i think by Montoya. A tremendous driver, no doubt, but at least one championship he didn't earn.
George[/QUOTE]
George,
Do a little more research. Senna deliberately crashed Prost out of a race at the first corner to clinch the championship. The reason was Senna was one point in front of Prost and if neither of them finished the race, the championship would go to Senna.
The following year, the situations were reversed, and Prost crashed Senna out as payback.
Although I respected Senna's driving ability, I never respected him as a driver. Deliberately crashing into another driver at high speed, endangering the lives of both, to win a championship is dirty pool.
Edit: Actually, I got it a little wrong. Read this to understand...[url]http://www.prostfan.com/senna2.htm[/url]
Gary
George[/QUOTE]
George,
Do a little more research. Senna deliberately crashed Prost out of a race at the first corner to clinch the championship. The reason was Senna was one point in front of Prost and if neither of them finished the race, the championship would go to Senna.
The following year, the situations were reversed, and Prost crashed Senna out as payback.
Although I respected Senna's driving ability, I never respected him as a driver. Deliberately crashing into another driver at high speed, endangering the lives of both, to win a championship is dirty pool.
Edit: Actually, I got it a little wrong. Read this to understand...[url]http://www.prostfan.com/senna2.htm[/url]
Gary
| boxerT | 05-11-2006 08:09 PM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]George,
Do a little more research. Senna deliberately crashed Prost out of a race at the first corner to clinch the championship. The reason was Senna was one point in front of Prost and if neither of them finished the race, the championship would go to Senna.[/QUOTE]
Speaking of deliberate crashing, you can look to Dale Earnhardt doing it at almost every race, yet millions view him as a hero. What a waste...
Do a little more research. Senna deliberately crashed Prost out of a race at the first corner to clinch the championship. The reason was Senna was one point in front of Prost and if neither of them finished the race, the championship would go to Senna.[/QUOTE]
Speaking of deliberate crashing, you can look to Dale Earnhardt doing it at almost every race, yet millions view him as a hero. What a waste...
| Funky | 05-11-2006 08:34 PM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]George,
Do a little more research. Senna deliberately crashed Prost out of a race at the first corner to clinch the championship. The reason was Senna was one point in front of Prost and if neither of them finished the race, the championship would go to Senna.
The following year, the situations were reversed, and Prost crashed Senna out as payback.
[/QUOTE]
Yea, that is actually backwards. Prost crashed Senna to win the championship, although if you watch the video a thousand times you'll see it's not entirely clearcut either way. Prost didn't think Senna was close enough to get inside, turns out he was. An incident, it happens.
That other incident between them was pretty well explained in the Prost interview you linked. Senna was unhappy about the grid layout, and decided ahead of time he'd shunt Prost if he got ahead into that turn. A real crappy move.
I have great respect for Senna as a driver. He had uncompromising focus and determination. His choices at times were different than what mine would have been, but he accomplished great things nonetheless.
Do a little more research. Senna deliberately crashed Prost out of a race at the first corner to clinch the championship. The reason was Senna was one point in front of Prost and if neither of them finished the race, the championship would go to Senna.
The following year, the situations were reversed, and Prost crashed Senna out as payback.
[/QUOTE]
Yea, that is actually backwards. Prost crashed Senna to win the championship, although if you watch the video a thousand times you'll see it's not entirely clearcut either way. Prost didn't think Senna was close enough to get inside, turns out he was. An incident, it happens.
That other incident between them was pretty well explained in the Prost interview you linked. Senna was unhappy about the grid layout, and decided ahead of time he'd shunt Prost if he got ahead into that turn. A real crappy move.
I have great respect for Senna as a driver. He had uncompromising focus and determination. His choices at times were different than what mine would have been, but he accomplished great things nonetheless.
| Keshav | 05-11-2006 08:34 PM |
Senna was not the best driver of his time, but he was the fastest.
Had he not died, MS would be now be famous for the most second-place finishes of all time.
Had he not died, MS would be now be famous for the most second-place finishes of all time.
| RaceComp Engineering | 05-11-2006 08:41 PM |
While I dont know the politics behind what he did and didnt do, as a teenager this guy was like a GOD in a racecar and when he died at Imola is was like when JFK was shot, (for the racing community), as in you knew where you were and what you were eating and drinking and what cloths you had on.
I wont go on and on, but I feel VERY passionate about Senna and how he drove and the place from within him that he dorve from.
In simple terms my son's Middle name is Senna.
Myles
I wont go on and on, but I feel VERY passionate about Senna and how he drove and the place from within him that he dorve from.
In simple terms my son's Middle name is Senna.
Myles
| MPME | 05-11-2006 09:03 PM |
[QUOTE=Funky]Yea, that is actually backwards. Prost crashed Senna to win the championship, although if you watch the video a thousand times you'll see it's not entirely clearcut either way. Prost didn't think Senna was close enough to get inside, turns out he was. An incident, it happens.
That other incident between them was pretty well explained in the Prost interview you linked. Senna was unhappy about the grid layout, and decided ahead of time he'd shunt Prost if he got ahead into that turn. A real crappy move.
I have great respect for Senna as a driver. He had uncompromising focus and determination. His choices at times were different than what mine would have been, but he accomplished great things nonetheless.[/QUOTE]
Actually, it's quite clear. If you look at where Prost starts turning in, and how much he turns in, he'd have driven across the grass before the turn.
That other incident between them was pretty well explained in the Prost interview you linked. Senna was unhappy about the grid layout, and decided ahead of time he'd shunt Prost if he got ahead into that turn. A real crappy move.
I have great respect for Senna as a driver. He had uncompromising focus and determination. His choices at times were different than what mine would have been, but he accomplished great things nonetheless.[/QUOTE]
Actually, it's quite clear. If you look at where Prost starts turning in, and how much he turns in, he'd have driven across the grass before the turn.
| meebs | 05-11-2006 09:04 PM |
[QUOTE=boxerT]Speaking of deliberate crashing, you can look to Dale Earnhardt doing it at almost every race, yet millions view him as a hero. What a waste...[/QUOTE]
Totally different game. I'm no nascar fan, but even I know that contact is definatly part of the game. :rolleyes:
Let me preface this by saying that I'm not intentionally trying to be "anti-PC", but rather, when the stakes are as high as they are in F1...all is fair in love and war. Pure and simple. Raw human emotion will win every time.
But times change. Schumacher is of that generation, he saw it done before, realized no doubt (or was informed over the radio dare I say) that if Hill goes bye bye then it's his. Thanks to hindsight, sadly, we all can jump on our soap boxes in 2006 and damn any sort of intentional contact is foul play, and a potentially deadly act, but only after the sad consequences of losing great drivers in the "modern era".
If I were in Schumi's situation back in 95 with all that is of stake in the pinacle of motorsport, would I do the same??? Very tough question. Was I mad as hell when he did it? Absolutely. :alien:
Totally different game. I'm no nascar fan, but even I know that contact is definatly part of the game. :rolleyes:
Let me preface this by saying that I'm not intentionally trying to be "anti-PC", but rather, when the stakes are as high as they are in F1...all is fair in love and war. Pure and simple. Raw human emotion will win every time.
But times change. Schumacher is of that generation, he saw it done before, realized no doubt (or was informed over the radio dare I say) that if Hill goes bye bye then it's his. Thanks to hindsight, sadly, we all can jump on our soap boxes in 2006 and damn any sort of intentional contact is foul play, and a potentially deadly act, but only after the sad consequences of losing great drivers in the "modern era".
If I were in Schumi's situation back in 95 with all that is of stake in the pinacle of motorsport, would I do the same??? Very tough question. Was I mad as hell when he did it? Absolutely. :alien:
| MPME | 05-11-2006 09:24 PM |
[QUOTE=Funky]Yea, that is actually backwards. Prost crashed Senna to win the championship, although if you watch the video a thousand times you'll see it's not entirely clearcut either way. Prost didn't think Senna was close enough to get inside, turns out he was. An incident, it happens.
That other incident between them was pretty well explained in the Prost interview you linked. Senna was unhappy about the grid layout, and decided ahead of time he'd shunt Prost if he got ahead into that turn. A real crappy move.
I have great respect for Senna as a driver. He had uncompromising focus and determination. His choices at times were different than what mine would have been, but he accomplished great things nonetheless.[/QUOTE]
That wasn't the real reason, as Senna later explained, but it was the reason he gave at the time.
He was pissed at Jean-Marie Balestre, then head of F1--an absolute prick. In '89, Prost took out Senna, let's not kid ourselves. Prost stalled his car as a result and was done--push starts weren't allowed.
Senna, his front wings and nose askew, but having lost about 30 seconds because of the melee, rejoined the track along an escape road that fed onto the front straight.
The rules had a statement saying that cars had to rejoin the track from where they left the track, if they went off course for some reason. It wasn't feasible for Senna to do this, so he pulled forward, in and around tire barriers, and got back onto the track.
With Prost having taken himself out, and Senna having rejoined, Ayrton drove the full lap, pitted, replaced his nose and wings, and rejoined in P2. He chased down Sandro Naninni, passed him, and won the race and the title.
No clear rules governed what penalty would be exacted for not rejoining from the place a car left the track, nor was it clear if that rule was simply meant to govern fully-abled cars that just slid off track. In Senna's case, his car was damaged. The genreal belief was that the rule was there to discourage a driver from going straight at a chicane, or similar, and being allowed to pass the cars he swept by when straightlining the chicane.
Balestre, draconian as hell, exluded Senna from the race!!!
They didn't call him in during the race for a stop and go, 10 second penalty, or anything else. To those used to or familiar with F1 after the Senna or Balestre years, I'll just say that things are WAY better now in terms of rules and clarity.
Back then, Balestre ruled like a dictator, and made sweeping, solo calls on whatever he wanted to.
So, after being excluded from the race, Sandro Naninni being handed his first win, and Prost being handed a championship, Senna, in 1990, exacted his revenge on Prost to a degree, but moreover, Balestre for manipulating the 1989 championship unjustly. Everybody I knew back then, be it a Prost or Senna fan, thought Senna got jacked by Balestre. The Prost/Senna accident was hotly debated, but the FIA's actions were transparent at best.
After the 89' season ended, Senna ripped Balestre a new one for the ridiculous penalty and handling of the situation. Balestre then, and publicly, stated that Senna was banned from racing in F1 (Balestre personally revoked Senna's Superlicence) until he sent Balestre a personal apology!
We're not talking about being banned for calling the sport into disrepute, but for the president of the FIA being personally insulted. There were no meetings, no convening of the FIA delegates to discuss and enact a penalty upon Senna--Jean-Marie didn't like what Senna said, so he banned him. It was crazy back then.
Senna had to fax Balestre an apology after almost quitting. I recall seeing that fax printed in an issue of Autosport and being blown away at the FIA/Balestre forcing the greatest driver in the world to cower in order to get his racing license reinstated.
For those wondering where this info comes from, Senna spilled the beans in the 1991 Japanese GP Thursday press conference. Balestre had been ousted and replaced by Max Moseley, so uncorking the truth behind his actions didn't carry the fear of being banned from F1. Again, there were no rules stating he couldn't speak his mind in Balestre's time, but nor were there rules defining what an FIA president could or could not do to a driver.
The Concorde Agreement was a decree between the FIA and FOCA, and covered the relationship, entries, and money arrangements between F1 and the teams. There was no such driver's agreement, so the FIA, or Balestre, did whatever the bleep he wanted with impunity.
No such deal today.
Like Chris Rock said about O.J., I don't agree with what Senna did, but I understand.
That other incident between them was pretty well explained in the Prost interview you linked. Senna was unhappy about the grid layout, and decided ahead of time he'd shunt Prost if he got ahead into that turn. A real crappy move.
I have great respect for Senna as a driver. He had uncompromising focus and determination. His choices at times were different than what mine would have been, but he accomplished great things nonetheless.[/QUOTE]
That wasn't the real reason, as Senna later explained, but it was the reason he gave at the time.
He was pissed at Jean-Marie Balestre, then head of F1--an absolute prick. In '89, Prost took out Senna, let's not kid ourselves. Prost stalled his car as a result and was done--push starts weren't allowed.
Senna, his front wings and nose askew, but having lost about 30 seconds because of the melee, rejoined the track along an escape road that fed onto the front straight.
The rules had a statement saying that cars had to rejoin the track from where they left the track, if they went off course for some reason. It wasn't feasible for Senna to do this, so he pulled forward, in and around tire barriers, and got back onto the track.
With Prost having taken himself out, and Senna having rejoined, Ayrton drove the full lap, pitted, replaced his nose and wings, and rejoined in P2. He chased down Sandro Naninni, passed him, and won the race and the title.
No clear rules governed what penalty would be exacted for not rejoining from the place a car left the track, nor was it clear if that rule was simply meant to govern fully-abled cars that just slid off track. In Senna's case, his car was damaged. The genreal belief was that the rule was there to discourage a driver from going straight at a chicane, or similar, and being allowed to pass the cars he swept by when straightlining the chicane.
Balestre, draconian as hell, exluded Senna from the race!!!
They didn't call him in during the race for a stop and go, 10 second penalty, or anything else. To those used to or familiar with F1 after the Senna or Balestre years, I'll just say that things are WAY better now in terms of rules and clarity.
Back then, Balestre ruled like a dictator, and made sweeping, solo calls on whatever he wanted to.
So, after being excluded from the race, Sandro Naninni being handed his first win, and Prost being handed a championship, Senna, in 1990, exacted his revenge on Prost to a degree, but moreover, Balestre for manipulating the 1989 championship unjustly. Everybody I knew back then, be it a Prost or Senna fan, thought Senna got jacked by Balestre. The Prost/Senna accident was hotly debated, but the FIA's actions were transparent at best.
After the 89' season ended, Senna ripped Balestre a new one for the ridiculous penalty and handling of the situation. Balestre then, and publicly, stated that Senna was banned from racing in F1 (Balestre personally revoked Senna's Superlicence) until he sent Balestre a personal apology!
We're not talking about being banned for calling the sport into disrepute, but for the president of the FIA being personally insulted. There were no meetings, no convening of the FIA delegates to discuss and enact a penalty upon Senna--Jean-Marie didn't like what Senna said, so he banned him. It was crazy back then.
Senna had to fax Balestre an apology after almost quitting. I recall seeing that fax printed in an issue of Autosport and being blown away at the FIA/Balestre forcing the greatest driver in the world to cower in order to get his racing license reinstated.
For those wondering where this info comes from, Senna spilled the beans in the 1991 Japanese GP Thursday press conference. Balestre had been ousted and replaced by Max Moseley, so uncorking the truth behind his actions didn't carry the fear of being banned from F1. Again, there were no rules stating he couldn't speak his mind in Balestre's time, but nor were there rules defining what an FIA president could or could not do to a driver.
The Concorde Agreement was a decree between the FIA and FOCA, and covered the relationship, entries, and money arrangements between F1 and the teams. There was no such driver's agreement, so the FIA, or Balestre, did whatever the bleep he wanted with impunity.
No such deal today.
Like Chris Rock said about O.J., I don't agree with what Senna did, but I understand.
| MPME | 05-11-2006 09:27 PM |
[QUOTE=RaceComp Engineering]when he died at Imola is was like when JFK was shot, (for the racing community), as in you knew where you were and what you were eating and drinking and what cloths you had on.
Myles[/QUOTE]
Like a freak, and as I always did with Senna, I was watching the race, live, at 4am, on a Sunday morning in a hotel at Laguna Seca. I can't recall the event or outcome of the Laguna event, though.
I still have the VHS tape of Imola '94 that was set to record the race while I was gone.
Brazil had 3 days of offical national mourning when he died. In Japan, there's actually a dedicated travel package to Brazil to visit the Senna Foundation, Senna Museum, and visit his grave. Still goes on today, 11 years and 10 days after his death.
A different time, Myles...
Man, never thought I'd feel old at 35...
Myles[/QUOTE]
Like a freak, and as I always did with Senna, I was watching the race, live, at 4am, on a Sunday morning in a hotel at Laguna Seca. I can't recall the event or outcome of the Laguna event, though.
I still have the VHS tape of Imola '94 that was set to record the race while I was gone.
Brazil had 3 days of offical national mourning when he died. In Japan, there's actually a dedicated travel package to Brazil to visit the Senna Foundation, Senna Museum, and visit his grave. Still goes on today, 11 years and 10 days after his death.
A different time, Myles...
Man, never thought I'd feel old at 35...
| GarySheehan | 05-11-2006 09:36 PM |
I still have it on VHS as well.
Man, I still look back on those days with envy, though. The cars were better looking and the fans were much more emotionally involved than they are today. Back then, you were pretty much pro-Prost/anti-Senna or vice versa, regardless of who your favorite driver was...
Gary
Man, I still look back on those days with envy, though. The cars were better looking and the fans were much more emotionally involved than they are today. Back then, you were pretty much pro-Prost/anti-Senna or vice versa, regardless of who your favorite driver was...
Gary
| RaceComp Engineering | 05-11-2006 11:03 PM |
I remember my neighbor who was BRAZILIAN, knocking on my door in TEARS !! He took this like it was his MOTHER, and I admit we just sat there and balled. THATS the kinda "times" it was. We didnt watch racing for a while. In his garage he made a wall of Senna pics from all the magazines and coated in clear tape in a tasteful way. He later took that drywall and pieces of it when he moved like 7 years later.
Myles
Myles
| esteve | 05-11-2006 11:26 PM |
There are 2 images of Senna I will never forget. One is Senna holding off Nigel Mansell one race in the pouring rain. Nothing unusual right? Well Senna was on slicks and Mansell had full wets and Senna was holding him off for like 10 laps. Unbelievable!!! The other is another wet race at Donington Park in 94 I believe when he started like 6th and by the end of the 1st lap he was already in the lead!! He passed Schumacher on the outside of a turn IIRC and picked off Prost like he was in a go kart. Later in that race, I think he lapped Damon Hill under braking like he wasn't moving...the speed differential between the 2 cars was tremendous.
Regaring the spat between Senna and Prost, I read somewhere that before his death they were on much better terms. In a way Senna missed competing with Prost because he brought out the best in him. He actually had great respect for Prost and it was good he buried the hatchet with him before he died.
Regaring the spat between Senna and Prost, I read somewhere that before his death they were on much better terms. In a way Senna missed competing with Prost because he brought out the best in him. He actually had great respect for Prost and it was good he buried the hatchet with him before he died.
| Funky | 05-12-2006 12:49 AM |
[QUOTE=esteve]There are 2 images of Senna I will never forget. One is Senna holding off Nigel Mansell one race in the pouring rain. Nothing unusual right? Well Senna was on slicks and Mansell had full wets and Senna was holding him off for like 10 laps. Unbelievable!!! The other is another wet race at Donington Park in 94 I believe when he started like 6th and by the end of the 1st lap he was already in the lead!! He passed Schumacher on the outside of a turn IIRC and picked off Prost like he was in a go kart. Later in that race, I think he lapped Damon Hill under braking like he wasn't moving...the speed differential between the 2 cars was tremendous.[/QUOTE]
This video:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naU_Y5o94Xo[/url]
Was a fantastic first lap.
Edit: A few more videos:
Now this is a great man: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCFXlON_qw[/url]
Also, driving the NSX wearing Loafers...
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehe92vPt2qU[/url]
This video:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naU_Y5o94Xo[/url]
Was a fantastic first lap.
Edit: A few more videos:
Now this is a great man: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCFXlON_qw[/url]
Also, driving the NSX wearing Loafers...
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehe92vPt2qU[/url]
| Slick Nick | 05-12-2006 04:46 AM |
He was a man WELL before my time, but still seems like an amazing driver, and all around human being. That lap in the above post is crazy. I know him for being a chassis tuner of the Honda (Acura) NSX. There is an excellent homage to him in the March 2006 Motor Trend. Arthur St. Antoine's editorial explains a lot about his helping in tuning (what I would consider to be) one of the best cars of the modern era. Its a really good (if short) read. I'm sorry I cant host an image of the article.
-Nick
-Nick
| AlanO | 05-12-2006 07:31 AM |
[QUOTE=esteve]Regaring the spat between Senna and Prost, I read somewhere that before his death they were on much better terms. In a way Senna missed competing with Prost because he brought out the best in him. He actually had great respect for Prost and it was good he buried the hatchet with him before he died.[/QUOTE]
Prost was one of the pallbearers at Senna's funeral.
Prost was one of the pallbearers at Senna's funeral.
| grandpa rex | 05-12-2006 07:35 AM |
I had the pleasure of seeing Senna live in Montreal in 93. His McLaren broke after about 10 laps, but he was able to go from 8th to about 4th on the grid in that time. He made some passes at the hairpin that were incredible.
If Senna had lived, his battles with a young Schumacher would have been the equivalent of Godzilla vs. King Kong. RIP Ayrton.
Here's a site I came across. Lots of videos to download. Lots of pix.
[url]http://ayrtonforever.free.fr/index2eng.htm[/url]
If Senna had lived, his battles with a young Schumacher would have been the equivalent of Godzilla vs. King Kong. RIP Ayrton.
Here's a site I came across. Lots of videos to download. Lots of pix.
[url]http://ayrtonforever.free.fr/index2eng.htm[/url]
| richde | 05-12-2006 08:17 AM |
[QUOTE=REX8]A little tribute to Senna...
We now see MS breaking all of his records...what T.V. fails to tell you is the number of races each had competed in.
IIRC: It took Michael about twice the number of races to surpass most of his legacy....[/QUOTE]
....saw it happen live on ESPN, knew right away there was something wrong....his head was drooped over, not moving....a strange silence from the commentators....
If you look MS up on Wilkpedia as well, you'll see he never compares himself to past drivers, they were different times. Also, you can work the stats to say just about anything...if you looked at his win percentage at the end of '95, he'd be a god. Remember, Schumacher won at Spa the second time he raced there in '92, placed 3rd in a Benetton-Ford in his first full F1 season in '93
Senna's season that fateful year hadn't been going well, Schumacher had won the previous three races. He was destined to win that championship, he was the new top driver....at least with him in the Benetton-Ford and the Senna/Hill combo in the Williams-Renault. The "rules infractions" that MS received race bans for were basically a load of crap, overtaking on the formation lap (cars accelerating and decelerating) and a worn down underbody from a spin over the curbs (which was plainly/painfully obvious from the photos shown at the time), but MS and Flav's attitudes did quite a bit in helping Benetton receiving very harsh punishment.
We now see MS breaking all of his records...what T.V. fails to tell you is the number of races each had competed in.
IIRC: It took Michael about twice the number of races to surpass most of his legacy....[/QUOTE]
....saw it happen live on ESPN, knew right away there was something wrong....his head was drooped over, not moving....a strange silence from the commentators....
If you look MS up on Wilkpedia as well, you'll see he never compares himself to past drivers, they were different times. Also, you can work the stats to say just about anything...if you looked at his win percentage at the end of '95, he'd be a god. Remember, Schumacher won at Spa the second time he raced there in '92, placed 3rd in a Benetton-Ford in his first full F1 season in '93
Senna's season that fateful year hadn't been going well, Schumacher had won the previous three races. He was destined to win that championship, he was the new top driver....at least with him in the Benetton-Ford and the Senna/Hill combo in the Williams-Renault. The "rules infractions" that MS received race bans for were basically a load of crap, overtaking on the formation lap (cars accelerating and decelerating) and a worn down underbody from a spin over the curbs (which was plainly/painfully obvious from the photos shown at the time), but MS and Flav's attitudes did quite a bit in helping Benetton receiving very harsh punishment.
| MattDell | 05-12-2006 08:54 AM |
[QUOTE=Slick Nick]I'm sorry I cant host an image of the article.
-Nick[/QUOTE]
I can. [email][email�protected][/email]
-Matt
-Nick[/QUOTE]
I can. [email][email�protected][/email]
-Matt
| MPME | 05-12-2006 01:08 PM |
[QUOTE=RaceComp Engineering]
In simple terms my son's Middle name is Senna.
Myles[/QUOTE]
Former Indycar driver and million time MotoX champion Jeff Ward named his twins (born in the early '90's) Ayrton and Alain.
I bet those kids beat the heck out of each other.
In simple terms my son's Middle name is Senna.
Myles[/QUOTE]
Former Indycar driver and million time MotoX champion Jeff Ward named his twins (born in the early '90's) Ayrton and Alain.
I bet those kids beat the heck out of each other.
| StuBeck | 05-12-2006 03:06 PM |
[QUOTE=MPME]Former Indycar driver and million time MotoX champion Jeff Ward named his twins (born in the early '90's) Ayrton and Alain.
I bet those kids beat the heck out of each other.[/QUOTE]
:lol:
I bet those kids beat the heck out of each other.[/QUOTE]
:lol:
| RaceComp Engineering | 05-12-2006 03:07 PM |
[QUOTE=MPME]Former Indycar driver and million time MotoX champion Jeff Ward named his twins (born in the early '90's) Ayrton and Alain.
I bet those kids beat the heck out of each other.[/QUOTE]
WOW, thats commitment, my son'd mom would NOT go for Ayrton, but years later when my son showed her the complete video , then she was for it. Also seeing my son win his first kart race at 5 years old, with a last lap pass, made it clear what this whole thing about.
Mw
I bet those kids beat the heck out of each other.[/QUOTE]
WOW, thats commitment, my son'd mom would NOT go for Ayrton, but years later when my son showed her the complete video , then she was for it. Also seeing my son win his first kart race at 5 years old, with a last lap pass, made it clear what this whole thing about.
Mw
| rallymaniac | 05-12-2006 03:38 PM |
Senna was gread driver, no doubt about this. I remember some races when i was about 10yo. I'll never forget that when it was raining everyone was screwed and he was the happiest man on earth. He just knew how to take an advantage of every condition on the track.
RIP Ayrton
RIP Ayrton
| MPME | 05-12-2006 03:48 PM |
[QUOTE=RaceComp Engineering]WOW, thats commitment, my son'd mom would NOT go for Ayrton, but years later when my son showed her the complete video , then she was for it. Also seeing my son win his first kart race at 5 years old, with a last lap pass, made it clear what this whole thing about.
Mw[/QUOTE]
When I get time Myles, I'll have to transfer about 50 F1 races I have with Senna in them, and another dozen Japanese LD's/VHS tapes I have that are dedicated or featuring him.
I have all 16 '88 F1 broadcasts, the year of his first championship, most of '89, and lots of '90-'84, with a number of '84-'87 as well, all locked away for safe keeping. I think I also have the original Monaco '84 ABC broadcast, his famous first win, oops, not a win in pouring rain.
Barring Chris Economaki, the worst F1/racing announcer EVER, the races are pretty cool to watch, even today.
Mw[/QUOTE]
When I get time Myles, I'll have to transfer about 50 F1 races I have with Senna in them, and another dozen Japanese LD's/VHS tapes I have that are dedicated or featuring him.
I have all 16 '88 F1 broadcasts, the year of his first championship, most of '89, and lots of '90-'84, with a number of '84-'87 as well, all locked away for safe keeping. I think I also have the original Monaco '84 ABC broadcast, his famous first win, oops, not a win in pouring rain.
Barring Chris Economaki, the worst F1/racing announcer EVER, the races are pretty cool to watch, even today.
| BriDrive | 05-12-2006 04:15 PM |
Hmmmm...
Whatever happened to that "biopic" movie that was supposed to be made around 2002 or 2003 timeframe? I think it was Antonio Banderas to play Ayrton...he was working with family members on the script and story, etc,etc....Anyone?Anyone?
BriDrive
Whatever happened to that "biopic" movie that was supposed to be made around 2002 or 2003 timeframe? I think it was Antonio Banderas to play Ayrton...he was working with family members on the script and story, etc,etc....Anyone?Anyone?
BriDrive
| VpointVick | 05-12-2006 04:29 PM |
He was amazing to watch, but that deal with punching Eddie Irvine for unlapping himself at Suzuka in '93 sort of clouded my opinion of Senna.
I mean, come on, you're in your first F1 race with a chance to score a point and the leader of the race is holding you up? I'd have passed him and gone after Hill too! (Senna would have too. ;) )
I mean, come on, you're in your first F1 race with a chance to score a point and the leader of the race is holding you up? I'd have passed him and gone after Hill too! (Senna would have too. ;) )
| St205gt4 | 05-12-2006 04:48 PM |
I was lucky enough to see him race as when I was at university back in Australia the Oz GP was held in my home town, Adelaide. I started following him the first year they raced in Oz, and was a huge fan of his until the day he passed away. As a poster earlier in the thread said, some people can still remember where they where when they heard the news. I certainly can.
I basically stopped watching F1 after he died and only in the last year or so have I bothered to watch any races. I much prefered the Senna/Prost/Mansell days to what I see today. Something that I'm sure makes me seem like an old fart now.
I actually just came back from a holiday in Italy and had the great fortune to get to Imola and visit the statue they have there of him. The fence behind it is still festooned with poems, photos and letters expressing fan's sadness at his death. And whilst I was there taking photos and having photos taken of myself with his statue a local kid rode up on his bike kissed his hand, laid it on the statue and rode off. Seems like it's seen as a good luck charm. Sent chills up my spine when I saw it.
Sounds stupid for someone I never really knew, but I miss him still.
I basically stopped watching F1 after he died and only in the last year or so have I bothered to watch any races. I much prefered the Senna/Prost/Mansell days to what I see today. Something that I'm sure makes me seem like an old fart now.
I actually just came back from a holiday in Italy and had the great fortune to get to Imola and visit the statue they have there of him. The fence behind it is still festooned with poems, photos and letters expressing fan's sadness at his death. And whilst I was there taking photos and having photos taken of myself with his statue a local kid rode up on his bike kissed his hand, laid it on the statue and rode off. Seems like it's seen as a good luck charm. Sent chills up my spine when I saw it.
Sounds stupid for someone I never really knew, but I miss him still.
| MPME | 05-12-2006 05:19 PM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]He was amazing to watch, but that deal with punching Eddie Irvine for unlapping himself at Suzuka in '93 sort of clouded my opinion of Senna.
I mean, come on, you're in your first F1 race with a chance to score a point and the leader of the race is holding you up? I'd have passed him and gone after Hill too! (Senna would have too. ;) )[/QUOTE]
True, but also keep in mind that Senna, leading the race in the rain, was on slicks at the time. Irvine, on fresh rain tires, was markedly faster, but still, leading in the rain on slicks is pretty crazy.
Not a crazy as Senna decking Irvine after the race, though... :p
I mean, come on, you're in your first F1 race with a chance to score a point and the leader of the race is holding you up? I'd have passed him and gone after Hill too! (Senna would have too. ;) )[/QUOTE]
True, but also keep in mind that Senna, leading the race in the rain, was on slicks at the time. Irvine, on fresh rain tires, was markedly faster, but still, leading in the rain on slicks is pretty crazy.
Not a crazy as Senna decking Irvine after the race, though... :p
| REXLR8 | 05-12-2006 06:16 PM |
at 20, he was a bit before my time, but he is still one of my all time influences and heros.
| STirocket | 05-12-2006 06:43 PM |
Alain Prost was a great race car driver. Senna was a bully on the track and won races by intimidation. I remember when Prost closed the door on Senna, most other drivers would've let him bully his way through. Prost was a better driver and wasn't intimidated by Senna. The number of races you win doesn't necessarily make you the best driver, IMHO it's how you conduct yourself on the race track that does. Taking stupid chances and putting other drivers in danger doesn't earn any respect from me...
| MPME | 05-12-2006 07:06 PM |
I didn't know you could win almost 50 F1 races on intimidation alone.
| platypus | 05-12-2006 07:35 PM |
[QUOTE=STirocket]The number of races you win doesn't necessarily make you the best driver...[/QUOTE]
It doesn't matter if it's by an inch or a mile, winning's winning.
:cool:
It doesn't matter if it's by an inch or a mile, winning's winning.
:cool:
| STirocket | 05-12-2006 07:43 PM |
[QUOTE=MPME]I didn't know you could win almost 50 F1 races on intimidation alone.[/QUOTE]
Senna won 41 races, Prost won 51 and didn't have to use bullying and intimidation do to it, he actually used skill...
Senna won 41 races, Prost won 51 and didn't have to use bullying and intimidation do to it, he actually used skill...
| Funky | 05-12-2006 09:02 PM |
[QUOTE=STirocket]Senna won 41 races, Prost won 51 and didn't have to use bullying and intimidation do to it, he actually used skill...[/QUOTE]
...you won't find many people who will argue that Senna did not have or use skill on the track. (well, except super die-hard Prost fans I guess...)
...you won't find many people who will argue that Senna did not have or use skill on the track. (well, except super die-hard Prost fans I guess...)
| StuBeck | 05-12-2006 09:17 PM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]He was amazing to watch, but that deal with punching Eddie Irvine for unlapping himself at Suzuka in '93 sort of clouded my opinion of Senna.
I mean, come on, you're in your first F1 race with a chance to score a point and the leader of the race is holding you up? I'd have passed him and gone after Hill too! (Senna would have too. ;) )[/QUOTE]
He didn't punch him...well, he didn't land it at least. Berger got Senna wasted, Senna went to the Jordan garage and Irvine was on a stool. Irvine got Senna even more pissed because he wasn't arguing with him, Senna tried to punch him, Irvine went back to avoid the hit and fell off the stool.
If you're a lap down in any motorsports and you pass the leader it is looked down upon, especially when the leader was only slowed down because of traffic he had to deal with.
I mean, come on, you're in your first F1 race with a chance to score a point and the leader of the race is holding you up? I'd have passed him and gone after Hill too! (Senna would have too. ;) )[/QUOTE]
He didn't punch him...well, he didn't land it at least. Berger got Senna wasted, Senna went to the Jordan garage and Irvine was on a stool. Irvine got Senna even more pissed because he wasn't arguing with him, Senna tried to punch him, Irvine went back to avoid the hit and fell off the stool.
If you're a lap down in any motorsports and you pass the leader it is looked down upon, especially when the leader was only slowed down because of traffic he had to deal with.
| StuBeck | 05-12-2006 09:19 PM |
[QUOTE=STirocket]Senna won 41 races, Prost won 51 and didn't have to use bullying and intimidation do to it, he actually used skill...[/QUOTE]
He used his fair share of intimidation/psychology for his wins. While I respect what Prost accomplished I personally believe Senna wasa a better driver, the McLaren just wasn't as good of a car a lot of the time.
He used his fair share of intimidation/psychology for his wins. While I respect what Prost accomplished I personally believe Senna wasa a better driver, the McLaren just wasn't as good of a car a lot of the time.
| MPME | 05-12-2006 09:37 PM |
[QUOTE=STirocket]Senna won 41 races, Prost won 51 and didn't have to use bullying and intimidation do to it, he actually used skill...[/QUOTE]
Uh, yeah, you, uh, already said that.
So, at what point do you stop repeating yourself, add in some facts and reason, and realize Senna won on supreme skill and talent.
Not talking about "do you like Senna or not," but "how would anyone win 41 races on bullying and intimidation?"
That's one of the least intelligent arguments/statements I've heard in some time.
Uh, yeah, you, uh, already said that.
So, at what point do you stop repeating yourself, add in some facts and reason, and realize Senna won on supreme skill and talent.
Not talking about "do you like Senna or not," but "how would anyone win 41 races on bullying and intimidation?"
That's one of the least intelligent arguments/statements I've heard in some time.
| STirocket | 05-12-2006 10:37 PM |
[QUOTE=MPME]Uh, yeah, you, uh, already said that.
So, at what point do you stop repeating yourself, add in some facts and reason, and realize Senna won on supreme skill and talent.
Not talking about "do you like Senna or not," but "how would anyone win 41 races on bullying and intimidation?"
That's one of the least intelligent arguments/statements I've heard in some time.[/QUOTE]
Apparently I have to repeat myself because you're not getting it. Senna drove irresponsibly taking unreasonable chances and endangering other drivers because he believed he couldn't die. It was widely reported at the time (perhaps you're too young to remember) that Senna thought his belief in God would protect him from harm. A number of drivers said they thought that made him dangerous.
Evidently Senna was wrong...
Good interview with Prost four years after Senna's death...
[URL=http://www.prostfan.com/senna2.htm]Prost interview about Senna[/URL]
Prost gives him more credit than I do...
So, at what point do you stop repeating yourself, add in some facts and reason, and realize Senna won on supreme skill and talent.
Not talking about "do you like Senna or not," but "how would anyone win 41 races on bullying and intimidation?"
That's one of the least intelligent arguments/statements I've heard in some time.[/QUOTE]
Apparently I have to repeat myself because you're not getting it. Senna drove irresponsibly taking unreasonable chances and endangering other drivers because he believed he couldn't die. It was widely reported at the time (perhaps you're too young to remember) that Senna thought his belief in God would protect him from harm. A number of drivers said they thought that made him dangerous.
Evidently Senna was wrong...
Good interview with Prost four years after Senna's death...
[URL=http://www.prostfan.com/senna2.htm]Prost interview about Senna[/URL]
Prost gives him more credit than I do...
| AlpineFD | 05-13-2006 01:02 AM |
senna was a danger to himself and everyone that gets in his way on the track. No doubt he was a very fast/committed/talented driver though.
[url]http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?threadid=15606&perpage=40&display=&pagenumber=1[/url]
[url]http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?threadid=15606&perpage=40&display=&pagenumber=1[/url]
| MattDell | 05-13-2006 01:37 AM |
[IMG]http://www.mattdell.com/hostedfiles/ayrtonnsx.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE](The asphalt jungle) arthur st. antoine
ayrton's car
Farewell to the original Acura NSX, the landmark exotic from Japan-and Brazil
I SLEPT LATE on May 1, 1994. Before the Golden Age of TiVo, I normally dragged myself out of bed at 4:30 a.m. every Sunday that ESPN broadcast a live Formula 1 race from Europe. But on that particular morning, having overstayed my welcome at a few Sunset Strip clubs the night before, I sawed away almost until noon. I was surprised to find two voice mails waiting. The first said simply:" It's Dad. Just wanted to see if you're okay." The other was from my best friend. "Wondering if you'd heard yet?" He asked, raising my pulse. I called my friend first. "It's Senna," he said. "San Marino Grand Prix. He's dead." I called my father. I was not okay.
Ayrton Senna was and remains my all-time favorite racing driver. Was he Machiavellian? Yes. But in an F1 car he was also Mozart, a human being operating at a level so far above the rest of us it was breathtaking (one example: Monaco 1988,when in qualifying Senna drove faster and faster, beyond even his conscious understanding, ultimately parking his McLaren in fear after setting a pole time 1.4 seconds quicker than Alain Prost in an identical car). Senna insisted on living life to the fullest and pushed himself with a fierce and inspiring intensity (when I attended the race driver physiology program at Florida's Human Performance International, the doctors spoke with awe at how Senna had grilled them for any training tip that might improve his skills). The word is hackneyed these days, but Ayrton Senna da Silva was the real thing: a genius. The brilliant Brazilian came back to me recently when, in the MT garage, I spotted an Acura NSX The only road car developed with input from Ayrton Senna himself. The car was even yellow, the color of Senna's famous helmet. I ran for the keys. It's easy to forget the impact the original 1991 NSX had on the sports-car world. Back then, the Ferrari 348 was quick but vexing and indifferently put together. The new NSX was a revolution: light, fast, responsive yet forgiving, and as tight and user-friendly as a Civic. Senna helped get it there. Honda engineers were well into the NSX's development when, in February 1989, at Japan's Suzuka circuit. They crossed paths with the Maestro, there to test his Fl McLaren-Honda. Senna obliged with a few laps in the prototype, then offered a humble but revealing critique. "I'm not sure I can really give you appropriate advice on a mass production car," he said, "but I feel it's a little fragile.� The NSX was already as rigid as contemporary Ferraris and Porsches, but Senna's extraordil1ary sensitivity had detected a critical weakness. After eight more grueling months of work, the Honda team had increased the NSX�s rigidity by 50 percent. Senna later helped dial-in the suspension settings that gave the NSX its groundbreaking handling finesse. My first drives in a 1991 NSX come flooding back as I toss the new car through the curves on Mullholland Drive. It's all still there: that incomparable IMAX view over the nose, steering that feels hard-wired to your fingertips, the snarl of the highly tuned V-6. Today, Ferraris are far quicker-and considerably more civilized than before, their game raised by this Japanese supercar. But the NSX still has a sophisticated purity unlike anything else. It still radiates genius. Honda has stopped building the NSX. A new car is coming for 2008. It'll be faster, with V-10 power�and improved, no doubt. But it won't be Ayrton'S car. The Mozart will be on the stereo. [/QUOTE]
Thanks, Nick!
[QUOTE](The asphalt jungle) arthur st. antoine
ayrton's car
Farewell to the original Acura NSX, the landmark exotic from Japan-and Brazil
I SLEPT LATE on May 1, 1994. Before the Golden Age of TiVo, I normally dragged myself out of bed at 4:30 a.m. every Sunday that ESPN broadcast a live Formula 1 race from Europe. But on that particular morning, having overstayed my welcome at a few Sunset Strip clubs the night before, I sawed away almost until noon. I was surprised to find two voice mails waiting. The first said simply:" It's Dad. Just wanted to see if you're okay." The other was from my best friend. "Wondering if you'd heard yet?" He asked, raising my pulse. I called my friend first. "It's Senna," he said. "San Marino Grand Prix. He's dead." I called my father. I was not okay.
Ayrton Senna was and remains my all-time favorite racing driver. Was he Machiavellian? Yes. But in an F1 car he was also Mozart, a human being operating at a level so far above the rest of us it was breathtaking (one example: Monaco 1988,when in qualifying Senna drove faster and faster, beyond even his conscious understanding, ultimately parking his McLaren in fear after setting a pole time 1.4 seconds quicker than Alain Prost in an identical car). Senna insisted on living life to the fullest and pushed himself with a fierce and inspiring intensity (when I attended the race driver physiology program at Florida's Human Performance International, the doctors spoke with awe at how Senna had grilled them for any training tip that might improve his skills). The word is hackneyed these days, but Ayrton Senna da Silva was the real thing: a genius. The brilliant Brazilian came back to me recently when, in the MT garage, I spotted an Acura NSX The only road car developed with input from Ayrton Senna himself. The car was even yellow, the color of Senna's famous helmet. I ran for the keys. It's easy to forget the impact the original 1991 NSX had on the sports-car world. Back then, the Ferrari 348 was quick but vexing and indifferently put together. The new NSX was a revolution: light, fast, responsive yet forgiving, and as tight and user-friendly as a Civic. Senna helped get it there. Honda engineers were well into the NSX's development when, in February 1989, at Japan's Suzuka circuit. They crossed paths with the Maestro, there to test his Fl McLaren-Honda. Senna obliged with a few laps in the prototype, then offered a humble but revealing critique. "I'm not sure I can really give you appropriate advice on a mass production car," he said, "but I feel it's a little fragile.� The NSX was already as rigid as contemporary Ferraris and Porsches, but Senna's extraordil1ary sensitivity had detected a critical weakness. After eight more grueling months of work, the Honda team had increased the NSX�s rigidity by 50 percent. Senna later helped dial-in the suspension settings that gave the NSX its groundbreaking handling finesse. My first drives in a 1991 NSX come flooding back as I toss the new car through the curves on Mullholland Drive. It's all still there: that incomparable IMAX view over the nose, steering that feels hard-wired to your fingertips, the snarl of the highly tuned V-6. Today, Ferraris are far quicker-and considerably more civilized than before, their game raised by this Japanese supercar. But the NSX still has a sophisticated purity unlike anything else. It still radiates genius. Honda has stopped building the NSX. A new car is coming for 2008. It'll be faster, with V-10 power�and improved, no doubt. But it won't be Ayrton'S car. The Mozart will be on the stereo. [/QUOTE]
Thanks, Nick!
| billyr2.5 | 05-13-2006 01:42 AM |
yea he went the wrong way at the wrong time in his life, he and gill vilnueve where the best...i know i butchered his name, i'm sorry
| MattDell | 05-13-2006 01:59 AM |
[QUOTE=STirocket]Good interview with Prost four years after Senna's death...
[URL=http://www.prostfan.com/senna2.htm]Prost interview about Senna[/URL][/QUOTE]
Very good interview.
[URL=http://www.prostfan.com/senna2.htm]Prost interview about Senna[/URL][/QUOTE]
Very good interview.
| buster | 05-13-2006 03:17 AM |
Wow, I was a fan to a small extent but never really researched his background. Reading and seeing all this makes MS look like a bit of a chump.
| St205gt4 | 05-13-2006 12:51 PM |
[QUOTE=STirocket]Apparently I have to repeat myself because you're not getting it. Senna drove irresponsibly taking unreasonable chances and endangering other drivers because he believed he couldn't die. It was widely reported at the time (perhaps you're too young to remember) that Senna thought his belief in God would protect him from harm. A number of drivers said they thought that made him dangerous.[/QUOTE]
Every single driver in F1 has done stupid and dangerous things, including Prost (89 and Suzuka anyone, Mansell in Portugal). The whole "dangerous" thing is based on two events. His stupidity in driving into Prost off pole at Suzuka when the organisers put pole on the dirty side of the track for some reason only known to them and God and moving across on Prost on the straight at one other track that same year. There is no doubt that the first action was stupid, but hardly more calculating than Prost's the year before when he knew that he was moving to Ferrari the following year and that if neither he nor Senna finished he would be world champion. Considering the bad blood between them at McLaren in 89, they were hardly going to do each other favours.
Further, I don't think that the idea he didn't care for other driver's safety jives with at least two incidents where he got out of his car mid-track to try and help other drivers after they crashed (Comas in 92 and Zanardi in 93, both at Spa), nor that the day before his death he had accepted the position of the head of the Driver's Safety group in F1.
The religious thing was a complete beat up by the press, who thrived off anything they could get from the Senna/Prost/Balestre triangle at the time as you'd remember if you lived through it as you suggest.
Overly harsh in my opinion. But it's just that, an opinion as is yours.
Every single driver in F1 has done stupid and dangerous things, including Prost (89 and Suzuka anyone, Mansell in Portugal). The whole "dangerous" thing is based on two events. His stupidity in driving into Prost off pole at Suzuka when the organisers put pole on the dirty side of the track for some reason only known to them and God and moving across on Prost on the straight at one other track that same year. There is no doubt that the first action was stupid, but hardly more calculating than Prost's the year before when he knew that he was moving to Ferrari the following year and that if neither he nor Senna finished he would be world champion. Considering the bad blood between them at McLaren in 89, they were hardly going to do each other favours.
Further, I don't think that the idea he didn't care for other driver's safety jives with at least two incidents where he got out of his car mid-track to try and help other drivers after they crashed (Comas in 92 and Zanardi in 93, both at Spa), nor that the day before his death he had accepted the position of the head of the Driver's Safety group in F1.
The religious thing was a complete beat up by the press, who thrived off anything they could get from the Senna/Prost/Balestre triangle at the time as you'd remember if you lived through it as you suggest.
Overly harsh in my opinion. But it's just that, an opinion as is yours.
| Phil Jr. | 05-13-2006 06:09 PM |
[url="http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/ayrton-senna.htm"]http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/ayrton-senna.htm[/url]
awsome website with all sorts of info on F1 drivers, cars, and just about every F1 race since it began.
awsome website with all sorts of info on F1 drivers, cars, and just about every F1 race since it began.
| AlpineFD | 05-13-2006 07:16 PM |
[QUOTE=St205gt4]Every single driver in F1 has done stupid and dangerous things, including Prost (89 and Suzuka anyone, Mansell in Portugal). The whole "dangerous" thing is based on two events. His stupidity in driving into Prost off pole at Suzuka when the organisers put pole on the dirty side of the track for some reason only known to them and God and moving across on Prost on the straight at one other track that same year. There is no doubt that the first action was stupid, but hardly more calculating than Prost's the year before when he knew that he was moving to Ferrari the following year and that if neither he nor Senna finished he would be world champion. Considering the bad blood between them at McLaren in 89, they were hardly going to do each other favours.
Further, I don't think that the idea he didn't care for other driver's safety jives with at least two incidents where he got out of his car mid-track to try and help other drivers after they crashed (Comas in 92 and Zanardi in 93, both at Spa), nor that the day before his death he had accepted the position of the head of the Driver's Safety group in F1.
The religious thing was a complete beat up by the press, who thrived off anything they could get from the Senna/Prost/Balestre triangle at the time as you'd remember if you lived through it as you suggest.
Overly harsh in my opinion. But it's just that, an opinion as is yours.[/QUOTE]
It's very obvious if you watch senna race that he is reckless, he gave his opponent a choice, either let him pass or crash together.
Here's the infamous pass prost made on senna in portugal, the video shows it from 2 angles, watch it in slow motion and see how far senna pushed prost into the pitwall.... Later prost said if senna wanted to win that bad, he can have it.
[url]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7851546671420687085&q=senna[/url]
the crash between senna and prost was controversial, senna wasn't faster than prost through the entire race, so he stuff it under braking at the last chicane in suzuka, watch the video below and tell me senna wasn't abit too optimistic??
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpzo6QY8x3U&search=senna%20prost[/url]
so what he jumped out of his car in the middle of the track, was he a trained EMT? I'd bet he'll never ever do that in the middle of a race. Also he only helped those who didn't pose a threat to him.
Further, I don't think that the idea he didn't care for other driver's safety jives with at least two incidents where he got out of his car mid-track to try and help other drivers after they crashed (Comas in 92 and Zanardi in 93, both at Spa), nor that the day before his death he had accepted the position of the head of the Driver's Safety group in F1.
The religious thing was a complete beat up by the press, who thrived off anything they could get from the Senna/Prost/Balestre triangle at the time as you'd remember if you lived through it as you suggest.
Overly harsh in my opinion. But it's just that, an opinion as is yours.[/QUOTE]
It's very obvious if you watch senna race that he is reckless, he gave his opponent a choice, either let him pass or crash together.
Here's the infamous pass prost made on senna in portugal, the video shows it from 2 angles, watch it in slow motion and see how far senna pushed prost into the pitwall.... Later prost said if senna wanted to win that bad, he can have it.
[url]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7851546671420687085&q=senna[/url]
the crash between senna and prost was controversial, senna wasn't faster than prost through the entire race, so he stuff it under braking at the last chicane in suzuka, watch the video below and tell me senna wasn't abit too optimistic??
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpzo6QY8x3U&search=senna%20prost[/url]
so what he jumped out of his car in the middle of the track, was he a trained EMT? I'd bet he'll never ever do that in the middle of a race. Also he only helped those who didn't pose a threat to him.
| richde | 05-13-2006 08:44 PM |
[QUOTE=buster]Wow, I was a fan to a small extent but never really researched his background. Reading and seeing all this makes MS look like a bit of a chump.[/QUOTE]
Make sure you research everybody when comparing, and look at everybody with a neutral viewpoint.
Schumacher gives tons of money to charity, made a couple questionable moves, he just isn't the outgoing happy-go-lucky type, he is German afterall. Most of the reason nobody liked MS in the beginning was #1, because he was good, suprisingly good from almost nowhere, #2, he was a German, and #3, his upstart Benetton team was beating the major hitters McLaren and Williams on the track and in the pits. F1 press at the time had a very Brit-centric viewpoint, and that young kraut MS beating the chosen son Damon Hill just would not do, and that Flavio character....he never took an ounce of crap from anybody, stood up to the entire FIA, and still full of pee and vinegar....Bernie's nightmare that just keeps coming back.
A 14 year career and he's still the highest paid driver in the most desirable position, #1 at Ferrari, you don't get there by being a hack.
Make sure you research everybody when comparing, and look at everybody with a neutral viewpoint.
Schumacher gives tons of money to charity, made a couple questionable moves, he just isn't the outgoing happy-go-lucky type, he is German afterall. Most of the reason nobody liked MS in the beginning was #1, because he was good, suprisingly good from almost nowhere, #2, he was a German, and #3, his upstart Benetton team was beating the major hitters McLaren and Williams on the track and in the pits. F1 press at the time had a very Brit-centric viewpoint, and that young kraut MS beating the chosen son Damon Hill just would not do, and that Flavio character....he never took an ounce of crap from anybody, stood up to the entire FIA, and still full of pee and vinegar....Bernie's nightmare that just keeps coming back.
A 14 year career and he's still the highest paid driver in the most desirable position, #1 at Ferrari, you don't get there by being a hack.
| OnTheGas | 05-13-2006 10:08 PM |
This thread is amazing!
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Great thread! I love Senna, and Prost... And remember their exploits fondly.
What I find really comical is the gritted teeth :furious: debate between the Senna and Prost partisans! After all these years, this is just like it was back in the day. :lol:
Bringing this thread back to the present, I have always thought that what Schumacher has missed in his career is a great rival. Mika H�kkinen came closest to be one for Michael, but it was not Prost vs. Senna.
Anyway, great thread... very entertaining trip down memory lane back to a time when I lived and breathed F1.
:alien:
What I find really comical is the gritted teeth :furious: debate between the Senna and Prost partisans! After all these years, this is just like it was back in the day. :lol:
Bringing this thread back to the present, I have always thought that what Schumacher has missed in his career is a great rival. Mika H�kkinen came closest to be one for Michael, but it was not Prost vs. Senna.
Anyway, great thread... very entertaining trip down memory lane back to a time when I lived and breathed F1.
:alien:
| Phil Jr. | 05-17-2006 07:55 PM |
[QUOTE=AlpineFD]so what he jumped out of his car in the middle of the track, was he a trained EMT? I'd bet he'll never ever do that in the middle of a race. Also he only helped those who didn't pose a threat to him.[/QUOTE]
so only trained EMT can pull unconcious drivers out of cars before they catch fire? i must have missed that memo. Give credit where credit is due. The simple fact remains that unless you do that little extra to win a race you shouldnt be in F1, even if that means not letting someone pass you or even outbraking yourself into a corner. Comes with the territory. Ive seen way worse in F1, you make it sound like hes the only one :lol:
btw, anyone catch that article in the latest C&D about MS? Some really good parts where he talks about how horribly dangerous the older F1 cars were.
so only trained EMT can pull unconcious drivers out of cars before they catch fire? i must have missed that memo. Give credit where credit is due. The simple fact remains that unless you do that little extra to win a race you shouldnt be in F1, even if that means not letting someone pass you or even outbraking yourself into a corner. Comes with the territory. Ive seen way worse in F1, you make it sound like hes the only one :lol:
btw, anyone catch that article in the latest C&D about MS? Some really good parts where he talks about how horribly dangerous the older F1 cars were.
| esteve | 04-29-2007 12:46 AM |
Resurrecting this old thread after seeing this awesome video of Senna driving the NSX at Suzuka...and no it's not the one with the loafers! This one is a bit more "animated" with lots of opposite lock, sideways action.
It might be WTLWhatever but if you haven't seen it yet, here's the master at work making it look so easy:
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izaWlKxVo1A"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izaWlKxVo1A[/URL]
It might be WTLWhatever but if you haven't seen it yet, here's the master at work making it look so easy:
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izaWlKxVo1A"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izaWlKxVo1A[/URL]
| RaceComp Engineering | 04-29-2007 01:36 AM |
I think this thread should be brought back eacj year around May-ish...and we all contribute a little.
Marshall , my son loved both those DVD's you gave/loaned me, thanks.
Myles
Marshall , my son loved both those DVD's you gave/loaned me, thanks.
Myles
| RaceComp Engineering | 02-25-2008 08:19 AM |
I know its not May, but my buddy Jon sent this to me. I had never read this before. I will admit , I wasnt ready when I did read it, because it takes you back to that day and it builds up to the moment, but in a different kind of way. Showing you off track side of Senna and the fact that perhaps he was ready to retire.
The Death of Ayrton Senna, his last 100 Hours.
[url]http://www.sportspromedia.com/senna.htm[/url]
Myles
The Death of Ayrton Senna, his last 100 Hours.
[url]http://www.sportspromedia.com/senna.htm[/url]
Myles
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