| whoobaru | 01-21-2004 08:23 AM |
Monte Carlo starts Friday! Where's the excitement?!
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Brand new WRC season and no thread yet? I know a lot of people are unhappy with the ruling changes, but it's still better than NASCAR. Post your predictions. Here are mine.
1) Loeb
2) Solberg
3) Sainz
1) Loeb
2) Solberg
3) Sainz
| johnfelstead | 01-21-2004 09:17 AM |
Have to admit it doesnt feel the same for me right now. This is the first Monte Carlo i have missed in 3 years and i am not particularly bothered about that. :confused:
The FIA are really screwing WRC up, this week they decided they will probably drop the Mille Pistes recce format in 2005, but are still keeping that as a rule this year but will offer waivers if requested. Why dont they just dump the idea now? Stupid people. The new rules for next year are even worse, with the rallies consisting of 3 points scoring days with 3 winners at each rally. Thats not WRC!
They force 2 new rallies on the teams, that has lost us Skoda as a full time works team, they force a 2 car rule on the teams when they want to run 3 or 4 cars so we now have just 10 current WRC cars in the event. All this after such a brilliant 2003.
Hopefully we have an epic battle and that gets the enthusiasm going again. :)
The FIA are really screwing WRC up, this week they decided they will probably drop the Mille Pistes recce format in 2005, but are still keeping that as a rule this year but will offer waivers if requested. Why dont they just dump the idea now? Stupid people. The new rules for next year are even worse, with the rallies consisting of 3 points scoring days with 3 winners at each rally. Thats not WRC!
They force 2 new rallies on the teams, that has lost us Skoda as a full time works team, they force a 2 car rule on the teams when they want to run 3 or 4 cars so we now have just 10 current WRC cars in the event. All this after such a brilliant 2003.
Hopefully we have an epic battle and that gets the enthusiasm going again. :)
| jblaine | 01-21-2004 09:24 AM |
GO CARLOS!
I am rooting for Sainz bigtime this year (idealisticly).
I am rooting for Sainz bigtime this year (idealisticly).
| Dr. WOT | 01-21-2004 09:43 AM |
Horses for courses, Loeb will be hard to beat. I'm enthusiastic, just a little sleepy at the moment.... :o
| Kitsune | 01-21-2004 11:32 AM |
I have a hard time getting exciteded about a series that has less then ten cars worth showing with drivers that have been signed because of how cheap they'll work for or how inexperianced they are. Yeah, the higher the level of the sport, the less people will be there, but WRC is'nt all that impressive this season, event wise or entry wise.
| skuttledude | 01-21-2004 01:51 PM |
I agree with John F. on this one. FIA is doing some serious screwing up!
Monte sounds like a cool race to go to. Mexico rally should be interesting for sure. My favorite still has to be Sweden WRC and Finland. (yep I'm biased..1/2 swede myself)
After the tarmac rallies last year, I didn't give Loeb a single thought of doing well. Wow, he blew that theory outta the water. He should have a big year in 04.
I wish that Solberg could be a little better on tarmac (in dry too). Then he might be another WRC champ.
I always look forward to the new rally year. However it is sad this year because the legend Makinen is not around and neither is McRae. :(
Anybody have an idea what McRae is doing this year. He did ok in RAID but now what?
Cheers,
Davis
Monte sounds like a cool race to go to. Mexico rally should be interesting for sure. My favorite still has to be Sweden WRC and Finland. (yep I'm biased..1/2 swede myself)
After the tarmac rallies last year, I didn't give Loeb a single thought of doing well. Wow, he blew that theory outta the water. He should have a big year in 04.
I wish that Solberg could be a little better on tarmac (in dry too). Then he might be another WRC champ.
I always look forward to the new rally year. However it is sad this year because the legend Makinen is not around and neither is McRae. :(
Anybody have an idea what McRae is doing this year. He did ok in RAID but now what?
Cheers,
Davis
| datageek | 01-21-2004 02:33 PM |
I wonder if maybe discussing the FIA rule changes for 2004 shouldn't be discussed on a seperate thread? I think otherwise it's probably going to quickly overwhelm the discussion on the Monte! :D
For me I think it's hard to make predictions on what is going to happen in this year's Monte, since so much will come down to how the new cars perform and if some of the old cars -- like the Focus -- sort out some of the mechanical problems that plagued them last year. Just for variety's sake, I'm going to say that it will be a close battle between Markko Martin and Sebastien Loeb, but in the end Markko will squeak ahead and Sebastien will have to settle for second place, with Francois Duval wrapping up the third podium position.
First stage starts in a little over 36 hours! :banana:
Anyone besides me follow the JWRC?
For me I think it's hard to make predictions on what is going to happen in this year's Monte, since so much will come down to how the new cars perform and if some of the old cars -- like the Focus -- sort out some of the mechanical problems that plagued them last year. Just for variety's sake, I'm going to say that it will be a close battle between Markko Martin and Sebastien Loeb, but in the end Markko will squeak ahead and Sebastien will have to settle for second place, with Francois Duval wrapping up the third podium position.
First stage starts in a little over 36 hours! :banana:
Anyone besides me follow the JWRC?
| Puckaveli | 01-21-2004 02:34 PM |
I'll be cheering for Petter, but I just have a feeling Loix is really going shine in the 307, so Freddy is my darkhorse.
| Kitsune | 01-21-2004 02:43 PM |
Loeb will likely win as long as he does'nt take himself out of the rally and the car holds up. Monte is Citreon's best event, they have a lot of incentive to win there, a lot of testing and are the most capable team.
Duval will be the one to watch all season, other then him, I do not see anyone else to get excited about. Gronholm, Solberg, Loeb and Sainz will be the only title contenders.
But predicting success in motorsports is like predicting the weather, even with accurate information there is still a %50 chance your wrong. ;)
Duval will be the one to watch all season, other then him, I do not see anyone else to get excited about. Gronholm, Solberg, Loeb and Sainz will be the only title contenders.
But predicting success in motorsports is like predicting the weather, even with accurate information there is still a %50 chance your wrong. ;)
| Subie Gal | 01-21-2004 03:46 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]The FIA are really screwing WRC up, this week they decided they will probably drop the Mille Pistes recce format in 2005, but are still keeping that as a rule this year but will offer waivers if requested. Why dont they just dump the idea now? Stupid people. The new rules for next year are even worse, with the rallies consisting of 3 points scoring days with 3 winners at each rally. Thats not WRC!
They force 2 new rallies on the teams, that has lost us Skoda as a full time works team, they force a 2 car rule on the teams when they want to run 3 or 4 cars so we now have just 10 current WRC cars in the event. All this after such a brilliant 2003.
Hopefully we have an epic battle and that gets the enthusiasm going again. :) [/B][/QUOTE]
what he said :huh:
on top of that... no Burnsie :(
*sigh*
bit depressing for me at the moment...
[i]best wishes to Burnsie & co. - hang in there![/i]
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
[B]The FIA are really screwing WRC up, this week they decided they will probably drop the Mille Pistes recce format in 2005, but are still keeping that as a rule this year but will offer waivers if requested. Why dont they just dump the idea now? Stupid people. The new rules for next year are even worse, with the rallies consisting of 3 points scoring days with 3 winners at each rally. Thats not WRC!
They force 2 new rallies on the teams, that has lost us Skoda as a full time works team, they force a 2 car rule on the teams when they want to run 3 or 4 cars so we now have just 10 current WRC cars in the event. All this after such a brilliant 2003.
Hopefully we have an epic battle and that gets the enthusiasm going again. :) [/B][/QUOTE]
what he said :huh:
on top of that... no Burnsie :(
*sigh*
bit depressing for me at the moment...
[i]best wishes to Burnsie & co. - hang in there![/i]
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
| nKoan | 01-21-2004 05:11 PM |
I predict
Loeb
Martin
Solberg
Sainz
In that order, but not necessiarly in places 1-2-3-4 (I have a slight feeling that the pressure of being the event favorite might cause Loeb to make a mistake, thus having a Martin-Solberg-Sainz 1-2-3).
EDIT: Hirvonen should be able to get into the top ten. Maybe even into the points :banana:
Loeb
Martin
Solberg
Sainz
In that order, but not necessiarly in places 1-2-3-4 (I have a slight feeling that the pressure of being the event favorite might cause Loeb to make a mistake, thus having a Martin-Solberg-Sainz 1-2-3).
EDIT: Hirvonen should be able to get into the top ten. Maybe even into the points :banana:
| X1_SRT | 01-21-2004 05:41 PM |
i'm not even going to talk about the wrc/fia rules. its just too depressing.
heres my monte picks:
Gronholm
Sainz
Solberg
Panizzi
gronholm's a long shot with the new car and all. but hes got the seat time to win it. panizzi's in there cause i'd to see mitsu get at least top 5 after missing last season. plus, i think the evo will dominate this season. on the other hand, i think ford has a killer lineup. i know its the same as last year, but i think both martin and duval will be that much sharper this year.
-PJ
heres my monte picks:
Gronholm
Sainz
Solberg
Panizzi
gronholm's a long shot with the new car and all. but hes got the seat time to win it. panizzi's in there cause i'd to see mitsu get at least top 5 after missing last season. plus, i think the evo will dominate this season. on the other hand, i think ford has a killer lineup. i know its the same as last year, but i think both martin and duval will be that much sharper this year.
-PJ
| johnfelstead | 01-21-2004 08:30 PM |
one thing that can be said for sure is that Monte Carlo rarely is won because of the best car/driver combination. It's the one event where luck comes into it in a major way as the roads over the col's have such changeable conditions.
If i were to pick anyone, it would be Seb to win here, but whoever wins and whoever does well or falters, it wont mean a thing with regards to how the season will pan out.
If i were to pick anyone, it would be Seb to win here, but whoever wins and whoever does well or falters, it wont mean a thing with regards to how the season will pan out.
| Osgood30 | 01-22-2004 12:12 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by nKoan [/i]
[B]EDIT: Hirvonen should be able to get into the top ten. Maybe even into the points :banana: [/B][/QUOTE]
he better, there is only 10 full time works cars in the WRC now.
[B]EDIT: Hirvonen should be able to get into the top ten. Maybe even into the points :banana: [/B][/QUOTE]
he better, there is only 10 full time works cars in the WRC now.
| nKoan | 01-22-2004 12:18 AM |
Yeah, but there is a good chance that privateers and private team cars will be getting into the points every rally this season.
| Jay911 | 01-22-2004 12:54 AM |
Watching the new WRC Magazine as I type this. I like Markko this year if Ford has figured out how to build a car that won't come apart like it's made of Legos. I think Petter will continue to excel, and Seb Loeb has some points to prove from what happened at the end of last season. :)
| NYCshopper | 01-22-2004 11:36 AM |
[quote]
Rallying-Solberg taking calmer approach in Monte Carlo
By Alan Baldwin
MONACO, Jan 22 (Reuters) - Subaru's Petter Solberg says he
must calm down and draw a line under last season before starting
his first rally as world champion in Monte Carlo this week.
The Norwegian, whose flat-out approach and exuberant victory
celebrations have earned him an army of fans, told a Monte Carlo
Rally news conference on Thursday that he was changing his
tactics.
"The Monte Carlo rally has never been very good for me,"
said Solberg, who has yet to finish higher than sixth in three
visits to the mountains inland from the Mediterranean
principality.
Last year he failed to finish the first leg after almost
plunging off a parapet and then skidding on standing water on
the day's penultimate stage.
"I will try and make a little bit different strategy on the
rally," added Solberg. "I have to try to calm down a little bit
more at the start, not try to go in the lead or fight in the top
five but just calm down and see how it goes.
"I will definitely try to be around sixth place tomorrow and
I will be very happy. And then I will try and aim for the podium
for Sunday."
Solberg beat Citroen's Sebastien Loeb, last year's Monte
Carlo winner and favourite again this weekend, to the 2003
championship by just one point after powering back from a
sluggish start to the season.
After the third event he had barely a handful of points on
the board, but he turned the championship around and romped to
victory in the final British round.
There he was hailed as the standard-bearer of a new
generation, leading Loeb and other young challengers as older
champions Tommi Makinen, Colin McRae and Didier Auriol left the
world stage.
But Solberg said he had now consigned that success to the
history books.
"Hopefully I will drive fast, that's the most important
thing," he said. "Winning the world championship is history now.
I have to focus again. We are all on zero points now."
From being the youngster alongside four times champion
Makinen at Subaru last year, Solberg must now lead Finnish
newcomer Mikko Hirvonen.
The Norwegian said he had taken his new team mate out for a
drive to help him.
"I think Mikko is a good talent. I think he will surprise
this year with his performance on Tarmac and gravel. Of course,
I have to help him like Colin (McRae), Tommi and Carlos (Sainz)
did for me," he added.
"I think it is possible for him to get on the podium this
year, definitely."
[/quote]
Rallying-Solberg taking calmer approach in Monte Carlo
By Alan Baldwin
MONACO, Jan 22 (Reuters) - Subaru's Petter Solberg says he
must calm down and draw a line under last season before starting
his first rally as world champion in Monte Carlo this week.
The Norwegian, whose flat-out approach and exuberant victory
celebrations have earned him an army of fans, told a Monte Carlo
Rally news conference on Thursday that he was changing his
tactics.
"The Monte Carlo rally has never been very good for me,"
said Solberg, who has yet to finish higher than sixth in three
visits to the mountains inland from the Mediterranean
principality.
Last year he failed to finish the first leg after almost
plunging off a parapet and then skidding on standing water on
the day's penultimate stage.
"I will try and make a little bit different strategy on the
rally," added Solberg. "I have to try to calm down a little bit
more at the start, not try to go in the lead or fight in the top
five but just calm down and see how it goes.
"I will definitely try to be around sixth place tomorrow and
I will be very happy. And then I will try and aim for the podium
for Sunday."
Solberg beat Citroen's Sebastien Loeb, last year's Monte
Carlo winner and favourite again this weekend, to the 2003
championship by just one point after powering back from a
sluggish start to the season.
After the third event he had barely a handful of points on
the board, but he turned the championship around and romped to
victory in the final British round.
There he was hailed as the standard-bearer of a new
generation, leading Loeb and other young challengers as older
champions Tommi Makinen, Colin McRae and Didier Auriol left the
world stage.
But Solberg said he had now consigned that success to the
history books.
"Hopefully I will drive fast, that's the most important
thing," he said. "Winning the world championship is history now.
I have to focus again. We are all on zero points now."
From being the youngster alongside four times champion
Makinen at Subaru last year, Solberg must now lead Finnish
newcomer Mikko Hirvonen.
The Norwegian said he had taken his new team mate out for a
drive to help him.
"I think Mikko is a good talent. I think he will surprise
this year with his performance on Tarmac and gravel. Of course,
I have to help him like Colin (McRae), Tommi and Carlos (Sainz)
did for me," he added.
"I think it is possible for him to get on the podium this
year, definitely."
[/quote]
| dmitrik4 | 01-22-2004 01:18 PM |
:D
i'm picking:
1. martin
2. loeb (in a close one)
3. panizzi
i think i'm going to root for markko this year. and marcus, of course. i'm going to root for him to blink once, the weirdo.
i'm picking:
1. martin
2. loeb (in a close one)
3. panizzi
i think i'm going to root for markko this year. and marcus, of course. i'm going to root for him to blink once, the weirdo.
| Ghostrider | 01-22-2004 03:27 PM |
1.loeb
2.panizzi
3.carlos
2.panizzi
3.carlos
| Arioch | 01-22-2004 04:06 PM |
1) Martin
2) Sainz
3) Loeb
But I'm sure I'll be way off!
-dave
2) Sainz
3) Loeb
But I'm sure I'll be way off!
-dave
| ShockWave | 01-22-2004 05:50 PM |
Hey, if FIA makes good on it's threat to boycott European races because of the Arrest Warrant issue ([url]http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/9484/[/url]) it could pour into WRC and then we'd only have 5 races. Then Hyundai and Skoda can afford a full season! :rolleyes:
1. Gronholm
2. Martin
3. Duval
1. Gronholm
2. Martin
3. Duval
| rupertberr | 01-22-2004 06:37 PM |
Since no one has picked it this way:
1. Solberg
2. Loeb - after an off
3. Gronholm - after two offs:D
1. Solberg
2. Loeb - after an off
3. Gronholm - after two offs:D
| Takashi | 01-22-2004 06:51 PM |
on a side note, who wants to tape the rally for me? :D
| Bwana | 01-23-2004 02:04 AM |
No stage 1 :(
| Protege Menace | 01-23-2004 02:06 AM |
I migth be taping it and able to host it on a 60K max uplaod server.
btw why is NO ONE putting petter in their picks?:(
btw why is NO ONE putting petter in their picks?:(
| WRXedUSA | 01-23-2004 02:08 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Bwana[/i]
[B] No stage 1 :( [/B][/QUOTE]
[OT] Grap? [/OT]
"The Speccies are in the way!"
Who's Tyler in Seattle?
[B] No stage 1 :( [/B][/QUOTE]
[OT] Grap? [/OT]
"The Speccies are in the way!"
Who's Tyler in Seattle?
| totoherbs | 01-23-2004 02:13 AM |
blame canerder blame canerder. :lol: :lol:
| nKoan | 01-23-2004 02:14 AM |
Glad to see that other people are as obsessive as me and listen to WRR :lol: :lol: :lol:
| Protege Menace | 01-23-2004 02:15 AM |
WRR thread in OT pwns this slow thread
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=489344[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=489344[/url]
| Takashi | 01-23-2004 12:05 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Protege Menace [/i]
[B]I migth be taping it and able to host it on a 60K max uplaod server.
btw why is NO ONE putting petter in their picks?:( [/B][/QUOTE]
cuz its teh tarmac.
martin
gronholm
loeb
[B]I migth be taping it and able to host it on a 60K max uplaod server.
btw why is NO ONE putting petter in their picks?:( [/B][/QUOTE]
cuz its teh tarmac.
martin
gronholm
loeb
| AndyRoo | 01-23-2004 02:20 PM |
sainz
| iemonslice | 01-23-2004 08:37 PM |
Loeb lost 1st place of his first WRC event two years ago on the tire penalty. Loeb took 1st place last year. Doing the math, Loeb is going to take Monte again this year.
| nKoan | 01-23-2004 08:38 PM |
Makinen won the Monte Carlo 4 years in a row. You expect him to take it this year too?
History don't mean much on a rally as unpredictable as Monte Carlo.
History don't mean much on a rally as unpredictable as Monte Carlo.
| subyfanatic | 01-23-2004 10:56 PM |
DAY 1
The three-day rally kicked off this morning and there was drama right from the off. Special stage 1, a 22.64km run from Selonnet to Breziers was cancelled due to spectator overcrowding. There were so many fans that the organisers took the sensible option and sent the field on its way to stage 2.
Marcus Gronholm took the initiative with a storming time on SS2, a full 9.9 seconds clear of Ford's Markko Martin. 2003 Monte winner Sebastien Loeb was just 2 seconds back in third.
Martin and Loeb then clawed back some of the gap to Gronholm with a stage win each before Peugeot ace Gronholm responded on stage five with another fastest time.
Sebastien Loeb piled on the pressure in the final stage of the day, SS6, to take the overall lead of the rally going into the first overnight halt. Gronholm lost a lot of time with a poortyre choice and slipped back to third overall behind Martin.
World Champion Petter Solberg started the day with a minor excursion into a fence but managed to gather it all together and produce a steady run through the remaining stages.
The action continues tomorrow morning at 0818 (GMT+1)with the rally's longest stage, the 34.4km Lantosque to Col de Braus stage, which will sort the supermen from just the men!
The three-day rally kicked off this morning and there was drama right from the off. Special stage 1, a 22.64km run from Selonnet to Breziers was cancelled due to spectator overcrowding. There were so many fans that the organisers took the sensible option and sent the field on its way to stage 2.
Marcus Gronholm took the initiative with a storming time on SS2, a full 9.9 seconds clear of Ford's Markko Martin. 2003 Monte winner Sebastien Loeb was just 2 seconds back in third.
Martin and Loeb then clawed back some of the gap to Gronholm with a stage win each before Peugeot ace Gronholm responded on stage five with another fastest time.
Sebastien Loeb piled on the pressure in the final stage of the day, SS6, to take the overall lead of the rally going into the first overnight halt. Gronholm lost a lot of time with a poortyre choice and slipped back to third overall behind Martin.
World Champion Petter Solberg started the day with a minor excursion into a fence but managed to gather it all together and produce a steady run through the remaining stages.
The action continues tomorrow morning at 0818 (GMT+1)with the rally's longest stage, the 34.4km Lantosque to Col de Braus stage, which will sort the supermen from just the men!
| speedyHAM | 01-24-2004 12:35 AM |
I'm still pulling for Petter. Loeb will be second (after an off). Third? I'd give 5 to 1 odds against anyone in particular. It's up for grabs and might just be a good season.
| iemonslice | 01-24-2004 11:21 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by nKoan [/i]
[B]Makinen won the Monte Carlo 4 years in a row. You expect him to take it this year too?
History don't mean much on a rally as unpredictable as Monte Carlo. [/B][/QUOTE]
So are you saying that predictions on Monte are pure luck and history has no say in prognosticating who those finishers might be?
You predicted Loeb, Martin, Solberg, and Sainz in the top 4. Hmm... I wonder how you picked those drivers. Historically, Loeb is ridiculous on tarmac. Historically, Martin is top ranked until his car breaks down. Historically, Solberg, come on, he recently took the title. Historically, you can count on Sainz for consistency.
[B]Makinen won the Monte Carlo 4 years in a row. You expect him to take it this year too?
History don't mean much on a rally as unpredictable as Monte Carlo. [/B][/QUOTE]
So are you saying that predictions on Monte are pure luck and history has no say in prognosticating who those finishers might be?
You predicted Loeb, Martin, Solberg, and Sainz in the top 4. Hmm... I wonder how you picked those drivers. Historically, Loeb is ridiculous on tarmac. Historically, Martin is top ranked until his car breaks down. Historically, Solberg, come on, he recently took the title. Historically, you can count on Sainz for consistency.
| iemonslice | 01-24-2004 11:22 AM |
To clear up any confusion, by ridiculous, i mean ridiculously good.:)
edit: I knew my spelling of rediculous looked odd..
edit: I knew my spelling of rediculous looked odd..
| nKoan | 01-24-2004 01:08 PM |
My predictions were mainly historic because thats all there is to go on (obviously). I couldn't have predicted the current top three, and I don't think anyone could have. I never expected my predictions to be right (now I know for a fact that I'm wrong :lol: ). I guess I was more commenting on the fact that you shouldn't be so committed to one driver in this unpredictable rally. Also, I didn't mean to come off so strong in my previous comment either. But if things keep going the way they are, I may just have to put my foot in my mouth ;)
I do think Loeb has the best chance (historically), I just wouldn't bet any money on Monte Carlo.
There is definitely a small amount of randomness and luck in rallying, but Monte Carlo seems to have quite a bit more then any other rally. I predicted Loeb would go off, but he hasn't. Sainz has. Solberg isn't doing as hot as I predicted, 3:30+ back from first place. Duval is in second and Marcus Gronholm's 307 hasn't broken down by now. Also, I would never have predicted a privateer Hyundai holding onto 6th place for 1/2 the rally (and Kresta is getting serious respect from me for that).
I do think Loeb has the best chance (historically), I just wouldn't bet any money on Monte Carlo.
There is definitely a small amount of randomness and luck in rallying, but Monte Carlo seems to have quite a bit more then any other rally. I predicted Loeb would go off, but he hasn't. Sainz has. Solberg isn't doing as hot as I predicted, 3:30+ back from first place. Duval is in second and Marcus Gronholm's 307 hasn't broken down by now. Also, I would never have predicted a privateer Hyundai holding onto 6th place for 1/2 the rally (and Kresta is getting serious respect from me for that).
| nKoan | 01-24-2004 01:43 PM |
Alright, lets totally change gears here...
Did anyone notice that Peugeot, Citroen and Mitsubishi have taken the co-drivers name off of the car? That totally sucks. I can't believe that these three manufacturers would demote the status of a co-driver.
Did anyone notice that Peugeot, Citroen and Mitsubishi have taken the co-drivers name off of the car? That totally sucks. I can't believe that these three manufacturers would demote the status of a co-driver.
| AndyRoo | 01-24-2004 08:15 PM |
thats not cool
| WRXedUSA | 01-24-2004 08:47 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by nKoan[/i]
[B] Alright, lets totally change gears here...
Did anyone notice that Peugeot, Citroen and Mitsubishi have taken the co-drivers name off of the car? That totally sucks. I can't believe that these three manufacturers would demote the status of a co-driver. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes.
That is because the went to a new numbering system that they tried in Finland in 2002. It was just to put a thin retangular event sponsor placard on the door (with the intention of not taking away or cluttering the door with the team sponsor).
They then moved the number to the back window in high vis orange. As you can tell, it got a little tight back there, so they obviously deleted the co drivers name. The 307 is the worst.
More importantly.....
"Why Subaru don't 555?" They had the 555 livery on the studio 2004 shots of the Monte spec car, but ther are sporting the Pleiades again. I know about the tobacco regs in europe, but why does Marlboro sport and not SWRT?
This has been happening the past few rounds.
[B] Alright, lets totally change gears here...
Did anyone notice that Peugeot, Citroen and Mitsubishi have taken the co-drivers name off of the car? That totally sucks. I can't believe that these three manufacturers would demote the status of a co-driver. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes.
That is because the went to a new numbering system that they tried in Finland in 2002. It was just to put a thin retangular event sponsor placard on the door (with the intention of not taking away or cluttering the door with the team sponsor).
They then moved the number to the back window in high vis orange. As you can tell, it got a little tight back there, so they obviously deleted the co drivers name. The 307 is the worst.
More importantly.....
"Why Subaru don't 555?" They had the 555 livery on the studio 2004 shots of the Monte spec car, but ther are sporting the Pleiades again. I know about the tobacco regs in europe, but why does Marlboro sport and not SWRT?
This has been happening the past few rounds.
| lark6 | 01-24-2004 09:02 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by WRXedUSA[/i]
[B] That is because the went to a new numbering system that they tried in Finland in 2002. It was just to put a thin retangular event sponsor placard on the door (with the intention of not taking away or cluttering the door with the team sponsor).
They then moved the number to the back window in high vis orange. As you can tell, it got a little tight back there, so they obviously deleted the co drivers name. The 307 is the worst.[/B][/QUOTE]
Not liking the little tiny yellow-on-black numbers as seen in Monte, Finland and Wales. Soon it'll be like F1 where you can't even tell where the numbers are.
Ed
[B] That is because the went to a new numbering system that they tried in Finland in 2002. It was just to put a thin retangular event sponsor placard on the door (with the intention of not taking away or cluttering the door with the team sponsor).
They then moved the number to the back window in high vis orange. As you can tell, it got a little tight back there, so they obviously deleted the co drivers name. The 307 is the worst.[/B][/QUOTE]
Not liking the little tiny yellow-on-black numbers as seen in Monte, Finland and Wales. Soon it'll be like F1 where you can't even tell where the numbers are.
Ed
| datageek | 01-24-2004 09:02 PM |
I think there's a little more to it than just a lack of space... Both Subaru and Ford started Monte Carlo listing the codriver names in the windows. But if you look at the pics from today on [URL=http://rally.racing-live.com/en]rally live[/URL], there are shots that clearly show that the codriver names have been removed from the back windows.
The really confusing part? There are other pictures from today up that clearly show the codriver names are still there. I wonder what tomorrow's pics will show...?
The really confusing part? There are other pictures from today up that clearly show the codriver names are still there. I wonder what tomorrow's pics will show...?
| subyfanatic | 01-24-2004 09:03 PM |
Monte Carlo Rally - day two review
Citroen?s Sebastien Loeb upheld his fearsome reputation on the Monte Carlo Rally by extending his lead to 1 minute 28.7 seconds after the five stages that made up the second leg of the 2004 World Rally Championship opener.
The day got off to a shaky start however when Peugeot privateer Nicolas Vouilloz ? running ahead of the works cars due to the regulation running order reversal - crashed his 206 WRC half way through the first stage, blocking the path of the oncoming cars.
Confusion reigned as some drivers posted times minutes slower than others. The organisers took the wise decision to annul the results for the cars affected by the accident. All drivers were given the time set by Ford privateer Antony Warmbold, the last man to get through the stage before Vouilloz.
With the outcome of stage seven having no bearing on the overall leaderboard, stage eight was the first true competitive test for the WRC gladiators.
And it was that man Loeb who won it, but only just. He was quicker than Ford young gun Francois Duval by just one tenth of a second. Loeb upped his pace on stage nine however, with a time some 15.1 seconds quicker than the on-form Duval.
The conditions caught out several of the drivers, including WRC veteran and former double world champion Carlos Sainz whose Citroen tore off a wheel as it left the road towards the end of stage nine. Subaru new boy blotted his copybook too by crashing the Impreza, forcing him to book an early flight home to Finland.
Although the snow and ice has not been quite the nghtmare it often is on the Monte, the low level fog has given the crews problems. Visibility was, at times, down to less than 50 metres. The drivers? trust in their co-drivers? pacenotes was never so apparent.
Stage 10 and 11 were scheduled as a re-run of the morning blast through eight and nine, but due to spectator overcrowding stage 10 was cancelled by the organisers on safety grounds.
Stage 11 did take place and it was business as usual for Loeb who was 9.8 seconds quicker than Fords Markko Martin, with Marcus Gronholm a further 1.5 seconds adrift.
Whether the Ford, Peugeot or Subaru boys can rise to the challenge tomorrow and topple Loeb from his undisputed spot at the top remains to be seen.
Citroen?s Sebastien Loeb upheld his fearsome reputation on the Monte Carlo Rally by extending his lead to 1 minute 28.7 seconds after the five stages that made up the second leg of the 2004 World Rally Championship opener.
The day got off to a shaky start however when Peugeot privateer Nicolas Vouilloz ? running ahead of the works cars due to the regulation running order reversal - crashed his 206 WRC half way through the first stage, blocking the path of the oncoming cars.
Confusion reigned as some drivers posted times minutes slower than others. The organisers took the wise decision to annul the results for the cars affected by the accident. All drivers were given the time set by Ford privateer Antony Warmbold, the last man to get through the stage before Vouilloz.
With the outcome of stage seven having no bearing on the overall leaderboard, stage eight was the first true competitive test for the WRC gladiators.
And it was that man Loeb who won it, but only just. He was quicker than Ford young gun Francois Duval by just one tenth of a second. Loeb upped his pace on stage nine however, with a time some 15.1 seconds quicker than the on-form Duval.
The conditions caught out several of the drivers, including WRC veteran and former double world champion Carlos Sainz whose Citroen tore off a wheel as it left the road towards the end of stage nine. Subaru new boy blotted his copybook too by crashing the Impreza, forcing him to book an early flight home to Finland.
Although the snow and ice has not been quite the nghtmare it often is on the Monte, the low level fog has given the crews problems. Visibility was, at times, down to less than 50 metres. The drivers? trust in their co-drivers? pacenotes was never so apparent.
Stage 10 and 11 were scheduled as a re-run of the morning blast through eight and nine, but due to spectator overcrowding stage 10 was cancelled by the organisers on safety grounds.
Stage 11 did take place and it was business as usual for Loeb who was 9.8 seconds quicker than Fords Markko Martin, with Marcus Gronholm a further 1.5 seconds adrift.
Whether the Ford, Peugeot or Subaru boys can rise to the challenge tomorrow and topple Loeb from his undisputed spot at the top remains to be seen.
| johnfelstead | 01-24-2004 10:39 PM |
[quote]I can't believe that these three manufacturers would demote the status of a co-driver.[/quote]
They didnt, the FIA did and some of the teams didnt even realise! :mad:
[b]FIA General sporting regulations[/b]
7.2 Except for rallies of the World Championship, the name of the driver and possibly of the co-driver together with their national flags must appear either on both front wings or on the rear side windows of the car. Any entrant failing to comply with this rule is subject to a cash penalty.
7.2.1 Except for rallies of the World Championship, when the drivers' names appear on the rear side windows, the letters of the driver's name must be white, of a maximum height of 10 cm in upper and lower case Helvetica bold face. The letters of the co-driver's name must be the same size as those of the driver's name. The national
flag of each crew member must appear adjacent to the name.
[b]FIA WRC Regulations[/b]
3.6.3 Driver�s Names
3.6.3.1 The name of the driver must appear with his / her passport nationality national flag on the rear side window of both sides of the car, under the competition number. The surname alone shall be:
- In Helvetica: upper case for the first letter of the name and the remainder in lower case.
- In white on a clear background.
- To a height of 10 cm and stroke width of 1.5 cm.
3.6.3.2 In addition to 3.6.3.1, the name of the driver and co-driver, with their national flags, may also appear on the front wings of the car.
Sporting Rules for WRC [url]http://www.fia.com/Reglements-sportifs/Rallyes/2004/WRC-2004-a.pdf[/url]
Some of the teams didn�t read the regulations, they clearly state the drivers name only should be on the rear window! So much for the crew being a team of equal importance. I am hating what the FIA are doing to my sport more by the day. :mad:
This should have been sorted out in scrutineering, obviously someone dropped a bollock and they did the change to some of the cars at service.
With regards to Tobacco, Monaco doesn�t comply with the EU ban on sponsorship, so the cars are launched in Monaco with full livery. After the start ceremony Thursday they are stripped of the tobacco sponsorship logos and have the EU complying livery attached. Peugeot do not have Marlboro on the car, they are just Red and white with Total as the named sponsor.
FIA new name/number rules
[img]http://www.johnfelstead.co.uk/pictures/FIANumberregs.JPG[/img]
They didnt, the FIA did and some of the teams didnt even realise! :mad:
[b]FIA General sporting regulations[/b]
7.2 Except for rallies of the World Championship, the name of the driver and possibly of the co-driver together with their national flags must appear either on both front wings or on the rear side windows of the car. Any entrant failing to comply with this rule is subject to a cash penalty.
7.2.1 Except for rallies of the World Championship, when the drivers' names appear on the rear side windows, the letters of the driver's name must be white, of a maximum height of 10 cm in upper and lower case Helvetica bold face. The letters of the co-driver's name must be the same size as those of the driver's name. The national
flag of each crew member must appear adjacent to the name.
[b]FIA WRC Regulations[/b]
3.6.3 Driver�s Names
3.6.3.1 The name of the driver must appear with his / her passport nationality national flag on the rear side window of both sides of the car, under the competition number. The surname alone shall be:
- In Helvetica: upper case for the first letter of the name and the remainder in lower case.
- In white on a clear background.
- To a height of 10 cm and stroke width of 1.5 cm.
3.6.3.2 In addition to 3.6.3.1, the name of the driver and co-driver, with their national flags, may also appear on the front wings of the car.
Sporting Rules for WRC [url]http://www.fia.com/Reglements-sportifs/Rallyes/2004/WRC-2004-a.pdf[/url]
Some of the teams didn�t read the regulations, they clearly state the drivers name only should be on the rear window! So much for the crew being a team of equal importance. I am hating what the FIA are doing to my sport more by the day. :mad:
This should have been sorted out in scrutineering, obviously someone dropped a bollock and they did the change to some of the cars at service.
With regards to Tobacco, Monaco doesn�t comply with the EU ban on sponsorship, so the cars are launched in Monaco with full livery. After the start ceremony Thursday they are stripped of the tobacco sponsorship logos and have the EU complying livery attached. Peugeot do not have Marlboro on the car, they are just Red and white with Total as the named sponsor.
FIA new name/number rules
[img]http://www.johnfelstead.co.uk/pictures/FIANumberregs.JPG[/img]
| johnfelstead | 01-24-2004 11:12 PM |
Shakedown and Day1
[img]http://rally.racing-live.com/photos/2004/montecarlo/diapo_020.jpg[/img]
Day2
[img]http://rally.racing-live.com/photos/2004/montecarlo/diapoa_220.jpg[/img]
How it should be acording to the 2004 WRC regulations.
[img]http://rally.racing-live.com/photos/2004/montecarlo/diapo_101.jpg[/img]
Ford, Subaru and Mitsubishi could be thrown out of rally Monte Carlo for not abiding by the regulations, the cars still dont comply. A sad day for codrivers.
[img]http://rally.racing-live.com/photos/2004/montecarlo/diapo_020.jpg[/img]
Day2
[img]http://rally.racing-live.com/photos/2004/montecarlo/diapoa_220.jpg[/img]
How it should be acording to the 2004 WRC regulations.
[img]http://rally.racing-live.com/photos/2004/montecarlo/diapo_101.jpg[/img]
Ford, Subaru and Mitsubishi could be thrown out of rally Monte Carlo for not abiding by the regulations, the cars still dont comply. A sad day for codrivers.
| Turbogeek | 01-24-2004 11:30 PM |
Jeez, that truly sucks. How many more jerkoff decisions is the FIA going to make?
It's not liek the co-driver isnt important. Hell, the co-driver is worth literally minutes over a stage with the pace noting. In some cases, where the driver cant see what's coming I would say the co-driver has the hardest and most important job.
I've always admired good co-drivers. this sucks they lose recognition for the great job they do. This is one rule change that should be rejected and shoved up the FIA's collective butt.
Is the FIA out to destroy rallying? Please Mr Richards, stand against Mosley and get rid of him before rallying is rooted any further.
It's not liek the co-driver isnt important. Hell, the co-driver is worth literally minutes over a stage with the pace noting. In some cases, where the driver cant see what's coming I would say the co-driver has the hardest and most important job.
I've always admired good co-drivers. this sucks they lose recognition for the great job they do. This is one rule change that should be rejected and shoved up the FIA's collective butt.
Is the FIA out to destroy rallying? Please Mr Richards, stand against Mosley and get rid of him before rallying is rooted any further.
| datageek | 01-25-2004 12:17 AM |
Maybe this is just my interpretation, but... The rules Jonfelstead quoted above say only that the driver's name must appear. However -- unless I am reading something wrong? -- they do not state that other names cannot appear. I suspect that Subaru and Ford chose to interpret the rules the same way I did, and so continued displaying the codriver's name. Either way, I have to say I respect those two marques more for continuing to give the codrivers credit. It's a tough job, so I don't personally see why they shouldn't get at least a few kudos for it.
I think Mitsubishi has been following the driver name only policy from the start. From looking at the pictures, only Subaru and Ford had the codriver's name in addition to the driver's. Though I wonder if they really could get thrown out of the rally for that? The rules quoted above just say failure to comply is subject to a cash penalty?
I think Mitsubishi has been following the driver name only policy from the start. From looking at the pictures, only Subaru and Ford had the codriver's name in addition to the driver's. Though I wonder if they really could get thrown out of the rally for that? The rules quoted above just say failure to comply is subject to a cash penalty?
| WRXedUSA | 01-25-2004 02:46 AM |
Why and what reason why the do this? That is absurd.
I'm very upset. :mad:
Thanks John for the Tobacco explaination. ;)
I'm very upset. :mad:
Thanks John for the Tobacco explaination. ;)
| subyfanatic | 01-25-2004 01:03 PM |
Monte Carlo Finale
�
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Monte Carlo Rally - final day
Marcus Gronholm finished the Monte Carlo Rally as he started it - with a stage win, but the rally victory went to Citroen star Sebastien Loeb from Markko Martin, Francois Duval and Gronholm.
The late-rally battle for second place between Ford team-mates Martin and Duval was resolved in the final segment of the final stage, the 19.52km Lantosque - Luceram 2, when the Estonian made up a near three-second deficit to the Belgian and turned it into a five-second advantage.
Loeb took a solid third place on the final stage to leave his final winning margin at 1m12.6s. This was the young Frenchman?s second Monte win in a row and it puts him into an early lead in the World Rally Championship for drivers.
The manufacturers? championship points? lead goes to Ford though, with both its cars in the top three.
Gilles Panizzi finished sixth overall to give the Mitsubishi Lancer a satisfying finish on its comeback event. The Frenchman took the postion from Petter Solberg whose crippled Subaru was suffering suspension problems after Petter clouted a rock on SS14.
Freddy Loix also moved up to fifth at Solberg?s expense. That gives the new Peugeot 307 WRC a fine debut result too, both cars in the points in fourth and fifth places.
Solberg eventually finished seventh - better than his 2003 Monte performance when he crashed out with no points.
The championship now moves to the classic snow-ridden stages of Sweden on February 6-8th.
Marcus Gronholm finished the Monte Carlo Rally as he started it - with a stage win, but the rally victory went to Citroen star Sebastien Loeb from Markko Martin, Francois Duval and Gronholm.
The late-rally battle for second place between Ford team-mates Martin and Duval was resolved in the final segment of the final stage, the 19.52km Lantosque - Luceram 2, when the Estonian made up a near three-second deficit to the Belgian and turned it into a five-second advantage.
Loeb took a solid third place on the final stage to leave his final winning margin at 1m12.6s. This was the young Frenchman?s second Monte win in a row and it puts him into an early lead in the World Rally Championship for drivers.
The manufacturers? championship points? lead goes to Ford though, with both its cars in the top three.
Gilles Panizzi finished sixth overall to give the Mitsubishi Lancer a satisfying finish on its comeback event. The Frenchman took the postion from Petter Solberg whose crippled Subaru was suffering suspension problems after Petter clouted a rock on SS14.
Freddy Loix also moved up to fifth at Solberg?s expense. That gives the new Peugeot 307 WRC a fine debut result too, both cars in the points in fourth and fifth places.
Solberg eventually finished seventh - better than his 2003 Monte performance when he crashed out with no points.
The championship now moves to the classic snow-ridden stages of Sweden on February 6-8th.
| johnfelstead | 01-25-2004 01:10 PM |
Duval took third under team orders, he pulled over to give Martin enough time to finish second.
Team orders on the first rally! That sucks.
Team orders on the first rally! That sucks.
| cdvma | 01-25-2004 01:21 PM |
[QUOTE]7.2.1 Except for rallies of the World Championship, when the [b]drivers'[/b] names appear on the rear side windows[/QUOTE]
That is plural posessive isn't it? Meaning more than one drivers name...so both names can appear on the window but dont have to. It is up to the teams and not up to the FIA in this case. Boo on poor grammar and teams not placing the co-driver on the window.
That is plural posessive isn't it? Meaning more than one drivers name...so both names can appear on the window but dont have to. It is up to the teams and not up to the FIA in this case. Boo on poor grammar and teams not placing the co-driver on the window.
| johnfelstead | 01-25-2004 01:30 PM |
Subaru and Ford had both names at the start, they removed the codrivers name on day2. They would only do that if instructed by the FIA to do so IMHO.
The WRC regulations superseed the general regulations, you are quoting the regs that dont count, i just put them there to illustrate how WRC rules put the co-drivers importance lower in the pecking order.
The WRC regulations superseed the general regulations, you are quoting the regs that dont count, i just put them there to illustrate how WRC rules put the co-drivers importance lower in the pecking order.
| WRXedUSA | 01-25-2004 03:41 PM |
It was nice to see Tommi make a appearnce on the Monte to help out Mikko & Petter. Lets hoe for better results on Round 2.
<----Off to sweden!
<----Off to sweden!
| nKoan | 01-25-2004 05:22 PM |
Fortunately, there are still 15 more rallies, and these first two are very specialized events. Heck, Petter only scored 3 points last year combined at Monte Carlo and Sweden.
| Dougie01 | 01-25-2004 07:38 PM |
More info [URL=http://www.acm.mc/rallye/acm_rallye.php] here[/URL]...
| bemani | 01-25-2004 10:38 PM |
:furious: :furious: :furious:
Damn it, Petter lost 2 places by doing something stupid. He was like a minute or 2 ahead of Freddie Loix 2 stages before the last, then he crashed into the wall :mad:
I can't believe that Mitsubishi with its crappy beta car got more points than Subaru :furious: :furious: :furious:
Damn it, Petter lost 2 places by doing something stupid. He was like a minute or 2 ahead of Freddie Loix 2 stages before the last, then he crashed into the wall :mad:
I can't believe that Mitsubishi with its crappy beta car got more points than Subaru :furious: :furious: :furious:
| Smelli Bugatti | 01-25-2004 10:56 PM |
I am behind Markko. Ya gotta love an ugly man with an ugly car beating everybody.. It was strange not seeing Tommi,Richard,Colin , and the 206
| mykrrrr | 01-26-2004 12:25 AM |
I think Seb has got the bit between his teeth and he's gonna be WC for '04.
The 307 seems pretty strong off the bat and it'll only go up from here...
Good to see that Roman Kresta in that privateer Hyundai was holding his own against the big boys on day 1. :D
The Lancer EVO WRC was pretty good looking eventhough the wing is still strange to me. Too bad they're not running active differentials. :( I still think the Stilo helmets look strange... :huh:
I was pissed that Francois Duval had to make way for Markko. They should have to fight for it. I don't care if Markko is the #1 driver for Ford Rallyesport. It's the first rally of the season. Let the youngster off the leash a bit and show everyone what he's got. The only team orders should have been for [b]BOTH[/b] cars to finish.
Poor Hirvonen...bad luck kid. :(
Can't wait until Sweden. :D
-mykr.
The 307 seems pretty strong off the bat and it'll only go up from here...
Good to see that Roman Kresta in that privateer Hyundai was holding his own against the big boys on day 1. :D
The Lancer EVO WRC was pretty good looking eventhough the wing is still strange to me. Too bad they're not running active differentials. :( I still think the Stilo helmets look strange... :huh:
I was pissed that Francois Duval had to make way for Markko. They should have to fight for it. I don't care if Markko is the #1 driver for Ford Rallyesport. It's the first rally of the season. Let the youngster off the leash a bit and show everyone what he's got. The only team orders should have been for [b]BOTH[/b] cars to finish.
Poor Hirvonen...bad luck kid. :(
Can't wait until Sweden. :D
-mykr.
| iemonslice | 01-26-2004 01:12 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Phat Girl [/i]
[B]I am behind Markko. Ya gotta love an ugly man with an ugly car beating everybody.. It was strange not seeing Tommi,Richard,Colin , and the 206 [/B][/QUOTE]
That's just mean. He's so nice that you can't say anything bad about him. And I think the Focus looks awesome compared to the old one. In addition don't forget Rovanpera.
[B]I am behind Markko. Ya gotta love an ugly man with an ugly car beating everybody.. It was strange not seeing Tommi,Richard,Colin , and the 206 [/B][/QUOTE]
That's just mean. He's so nice that you can't say anything bad about him. And I think the Focus looks awesome compared to the old one. In addition don't forget Rovanpera.
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