| jnorth85 | 01-31-2007 05:09 PM |
Rally car on E-Bay
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Groupe-N rally car
not sure if this is WTLW but here it is
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Subaru-Impreza-STI-Rally-Car-Group-N_W0QQitemZ280073613112QQihZ018QQcategoryZ98064QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]
not sure if this is WTLW but here it is
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Subaru-Impreza-STI-Rally-Car-Group-N_W0QQitemZ280073613112QQihZ018QQcategoryZ98064QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]
| mykrrrr | 01-31-2007 05:32 PM |
Getting it over here from Cyprus might be a bit costly... ;)
| Protege Menace | 01-31-2007 05:33 PM |
seller with 0 feedback, hmm THATS not suspicious....
| jnorth85 | 01-31-2007 05:52 PM |
[QUOTE=mykrrrr;16883404]Getting it over here from Cyprus might be a bit costly... ;)[/QUOTE]
for sure it would!
for sure it would!
| SuperWRXSTi | 01-31-2007 05:55 PM |
[quote=Protege Menace;16883417]seller with 0 feedback, hmm THATS not suspicious....[/quote]
But I doubt companies sell their rally cars very often.
But I doubt companies sell their rally cars very often.
| WRXedUSA | 01-31-2007 05:57 PM |
[QUOTE=Protege Menace;16883417]seller with 0 feedback, hmm THATS not suspicious....[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.nsport.bz/SUBARU.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.nsport.bz/SUBARU.htm[/url]
| Protege Menace | 01-31-2007 06:07 PM |
ok its for sale but they dont link to the ebay auction?
know how easy it would be for a nigerian to cut and paste images and specs
know how easy it would be for a nigerian to cut and paste images and specs
| bergs | 01-31-2007 06:12 PM |
Look thru the thumbnails....it's a different car in almost every pic....I like the one with the Suzuki sticker on the front windshield...
| Howl | 01-31-2007 09:34 PM |
The name on the window in one of the pictures is NICOLAOU. Andreas Nicolaou is one of Cyprus' best rally drivers.
| caesar | 02-01-2007 01:49 AM |
[QUOTE=Protege Menace;16883417]seller with 0 feedback, hmm THATS not suspicious....[/QUOTE]
yeah for sure......
yeah for sure......
| afpdl | 02-01-2007 06:32 AM |
[QUOTE=bergs;16883986]Look thru the thumbnails....it's a different car in almost every pic....I like the one with the Suzuki sticker on the front windshield...[/QUOTE]
Its the same car, just has different graphics. The 33MI905 sticker is visible in almost every picture. I dont think someone found pictures several different white group n stis that all happen to have the same number on the front and rear bumper.
Its the same car, just has different graphics. The 33MI905 sticker is visible in almost every picture. I dont think someone found pictures several different white group n stis that all happen to have the same number on the front and rear bumper.
| Howl | 02-01-2007 08:44 AM |
Agreed. It's the same car with various graphics - showing it's been used - a lot. Usually the top-of-the-windshield banner is reserved for either the main sponser of an event or for the name of the event itself.
| RB5 Clone | 02-01-2007 09:22 AM |
that Cyprus Gp N car has been for sale before, a few times and diff places
it's no different than any other used rally car -- 100% guaranteed to have had the holy livin crap beat out of it
then again, that's what rally cars are for!
Gp N is basically dead in North America now, the action is either in PGT (contingency $$$) or Open (fastest your $ can buy) class.
Dave G
it's no different than any other used rally car -- 100% guaranteed to have had the holy livin crap beat out of it
then again, that's what rally cars are for!
Gp N is basically dead in North America now, the action is either in PGT (contingency $$$) or Open (fastest your $ can buy) class.
Dave G
| dch | 02-01-2007 10:33 AM |
[QUOTE=RB5 Clone;16890543]the action is either in PGT (contingency $$$) or Open (fastest your $ can buy) class.[/QUOTE]
Well Group N is basically European Production GT, which makes it more expensive than our Production GT. Then with the quagmire of homologation rules, it's a real pain in the arse to keep everything "legal". It's cheaper and easier to just not change very much (PGT) or change to readily available performance enhancing stuff (O). I think Group N was instated here to attract people from overseas to bring their cars and compete, but when they showed up they all wanted to protest the hell out of the local N cars because (quite correctly) they weren't truly "legal" over here- we had to fudge things a bit. I wouldn't be sad at all to see N go away...
Cheers,
-Doug
Well Group N is basically European Production GT, which makes it more expensive than our Production GT. Then with the quagmire of homologation rules, it's a real pain in the arse to keep everything "legal". It's cheaper and easier to just not change very much (PGT) or change to readily available performance enhancing stuff (O). I think Group N was instated here to attract people from overseas to bring their cars and compete, but when they showed up they all wanted to protest the hell out of the local N cars because (quite correctly) they weren't truly "legal" over here- we had to fudge things a bit. I wouldn't be sad at all to see N go away...
Cheers,
-Doug
| Doug Woods | 02-01-2007 11:06 AM |
[QUOTE=dch;16891331]I wouldn't be sad at all to see N go away...[/QUOTE]
Doug:
Make it so.;)
Doug Woods
Doug:
Make it so.;)
Doug Woods
| fliz | 02-01-2007 11:08 AM |
RHD would definitely make going through the controls a bit trickier.
| RB5 Clone | 02-01-2007 11:55 AM |
POOF! Gp N begone.
| rallynutdon | 02-01-2007 02:36 PM |
[QUOTE=fliz;16891773]RHD would definitely make going through the controls a bit trickier.[/QUOTE]
Several Evos that do that now!
Several Evos that do that now!
| RB5 Clone | 02-01-2007 03:46 PM |
My codriver Erik had an RHD Evo street car, and when he'd go thru toll booths, he'd fork over the $$$ with a lacrosse stick.
| dch | 02-01-2007 11:53 PM |
[QUOTE=Doug Woods;16891752]Doug:
Make it so.;)
Doug Woods[/QUOTE]
My guess is if we don't see more enthusiasm for Group N throughout the first part of the season, it will be taken out next year. It's pretty easy to take a good Group N car and make it a good Open car, but more difficult to make it back into a PGT car. So we'll see who shows up in N, have a chat with them, and see which way to go.
Cheers,
-Doug
P.S. - I can't just make it go away, nobody cares what I think :D
Make it so.;)
Doug Woods[/QUOTE]
My guess is if we don't see more enthusiasm for Group N throughout the first part of the season, it will be taken out next year. It's pretty easy to take a good Group N car and make it a good Open car, but more difficult to make it back into a PGT car. So we'll see who shows up in N, have a chat with them, and see which way to go.
Cheers,
-Doug
P.S. - I can't just make it go away, nobody cares what I think :D
| burned | 02-02-2007 06:12 AM |
[URL="http://www.rallycarsforsale.com"]www.rallycarsforsale.com[/URL] rally cars from europe i dont look at nothing else.
| greg donovan | 02-02-2007 09:31 AM |
[QUOTE=dch;16902007]My guess is if we don't see more enthusiasm for Group N throughout the first part of the season, it will be taken out next year. It's pretty easy to take a good Group N car and make it a good Open car, but more difficult to make it back into a PGT car. So we'll see who shows up in N, have a chat with them, and see which way to go.
Cheers,
-Doug
P.S. - I can't just make it go away, nobody cares what I think :D[/QUOTE]
[Luke skywalker whine] I care [/Luke skywalker whine]
Cheers,
-Doug
P.S. - I can't just make it go away, nobody cares what I think :D[/QUOTE]
[Luke skywalker whine] I care [/Luke skywalker whine]
| digitalpimp | 02-02-2007 10:23 AM |
[QUOTE=RB5 Clone;16890543]
it's no different than any other used rally car -- 100% guaranteed to have had the holy livin crap beat out of it[/QUOTE]
ding ding ding. especially one from cyprus...
my, what intresting [I]gravel[/I] tires it has :D
it's no different than any other used rally car -- 100% guaranteed to have had the holy livin crap beat out of it[/QUOTE]
ding ding ding. especially one from cyprus...
my, what intresting [I]gravel[/I] tires it has :D
| Doug Woods | 02-02-2007 10:45 AM |
[QUOTE=dch;16902007]My guess is if we don't see more enthusiasm for Group N throughout the first part of the season, it will be taken out next year. It's pretty easy to take a good Group N car and make it a good Open car, but more difficult to make it back into a PGT car. So we'll see who shows up in N, have a chat with them, and see which way to go.
Cheers,
-Doug
P.S. - I can't just make it go away, nobody cares what I think :D[/QUOTE]
Doug:
On a more important topic, will we see you behind the wheel this year?
Doug Woods
Cheers,
-Doug
P.S. - I can't just make it go away, nobody cares what I think :D[/QUOTE]
Doug:
On a more important topic, will we see you behind the wheel this year?
Doug Woods
| Ralliart4 | 02-02-2007 11:02 AM |
Gp.N is a necessary impliment if you want to actually see american drivrers in the PWRC and thus WRC by progression.
That car is probably just a rental thats all its a N11 and now that there is the N12 and N13 why keep it. If you are on a budget and want a car with all the goodies then this is a deal for you.... and no they are not going to sell you a car with a blown motor if its a customer trial car.
That car is probably just a rental thats all its a N11 and now that there is the N12 and N13 why keep it. If you are on a budget and want a car with all the goodies then this is a deal for you.... and no they are not going to sell you a car with a blown motor if its a customer trial car.
| bjorn240 | 02-02-2007 11:21 AM |
[QUOTE=Ralliart4;16905524]Gp.N is a necessary impliment if you want to actually see american drivrers in the PWRC and thus WRC by progression.
[/QUOTE]
Nonsense. The differences between an American Open class car and a full-spec N12 are completely immaterial, and can be summarized as follows: 2mm restrictor and no stock dashboard/HVAC. If you can drive one, you can drive the other. And BTW, no one "progresses" from PWRC to WRC, either. You run PWRC to get event experience reasonably cheaply. Then you've got to get a chance to pedal a WRC car on one of those events and prove that you've got what it takes to do that.
- Christian
[/QUOTE]
Nonsense. The differences between an American Open class car and a full-spec N12 are completely immaterial, and can be summarized as follows: 2mm restrictor and no stock dashboard/HVAC. If you can drive one, you can drive the other. And BTW, no one "progresses" from PWRC to WRC, either. You run PWRC to get event experience reasonably cheaply. Then you've got to get a chance to pedal a WRC car on one of those events and prove that you've got what it takes to do that.
- Christian
| dch | 02-02-2007 01:29 PM |
[QUOTE=Doug Woods;16905311]will we see you behind the wheel this year?[/QUOTE]
I may drive at an event later in the year, we'll see. Indecision [i]is[/i] the basis of flexibility you know...
[QUOTE=Ralliart4]Gp.N is a necessary impliment if you want to actually see american drivrers in the PWRC and thus WRC by progression.[/QUOTE]
Nah. What Christian said (Christian and his driver [I forget his name...:D] aren't running GN here and are going to the PWRC so there's your proof). If you can flog the wheels off a US Open spec car you can flog the wheels off a Group N car in the PWRC. You can still run a full spec Group N car in Open if you want the total absolutely accurate experience for your PWRC attack. The only difference is us not having to police a European Production class here in the US using bastardized rules since none of our cars will ever be 100% legit. It's not worth the headaches for one or maybe two Group N cars that show up at only a couple of events during the year. At some point it's just trophy hunting if you're the only car running the class.
Cheers,
-Doug
I may drive at an event later in the year, we'll see. Indecision [i]is[/i] the basis of flexibility you know...
[QUOTE=Ralliart4]Gp.N is a necessary impliment if you want to actually see american drivrers in the PWRC and thus WRC by progression.[/QUOTE]
Nah. What Christian said (Christian and his driver [I forget his name...:D] aren't running GN here and are going to the PWRC so there's your proof). If you can flog the wheels off a US Open spec car you can flog the wheels off a Group N car in the PWRC. You can still run a full spec Group N car in Open if you want the total absolutely accurate experience for your PWRC attack. The only difference is us not having to police a European Production class here in the US using bastardized rules since none of our cars will ever be 100% legit. It's not worth the headaches for one or maybe two Group N cars that show up at only a couple of events during the year. At some point it's just trophy hunting if you're the only car running the class.
Cheers,
-Doug
| Ralliart4 | 02-02-2007 01:48 PM |
Good points guys. I stand corrected :)
Ok then let me ask you guys opinion then. In a surtain caribbean island where rally is donminant there was talk of removing all WRC spec and even Gp.A 4wd turbo cars from points scoring eligibility for the national drivers championship in favour of a big push to level the playing field and encourage competition and enforce Gp.N 4wd turbo as the pinacle. How do you guys view this change and what advantages and disadvantages do you see by seeking to force everybody to compete at this level?
Ok then let me ask you guys opinion then. In a surtain caribbean island where rally is donminant there was talk of removing all WRC spec and even Gp.A 4wd turbo cars from points scoring eligibility for the national drivers championship in favour of a big push to level the playing field and encourage competition and enforce Gp.N 4wd turbo as the pinacle. How do you guys view this change and what advantages and disadvantages do you see by seeking to force everybody to compete at this level?
| dch | 02-02-2007 02:41 PM |
[QUOTE=Ralliart4;16907953]Ok then let me ask you guys opinion then. In a surtain caribbean island where rally is donminant there was talk of removing all WRC spec and even Gp.A 4wd turbo cars from points scoring eligibility for the national drivers championship in favour of a big push to level the playing field and encourage competition and enforce Gp.N 4wd turbo as the pinacle. How do you guys view this change and what advantages and disadvantages do you see by seeking to force everybody to compete at this level?[/QUOTE]
The way we handled it, in order to prevent someone from showing up with a one year old WRC car and cleaning everybody's clock that didn't spend three quarters of a million dollars on their ride is to ban active front and rear differentials along with electronically actuated gearshifts (eg: paddle shifters). You can run a sequential gearbox but you have to shift it manually. Electronic center diff control is allowed since it's fairly common and not a bank buster. So if you want to use WRC or Group A cars as Subaru of America did a couple of years back, you have to take all of the fancy toys out of them which puts them on par with a well prepared "normal" car. In fact I believe Mitsubishi ended up beating Subaru that year, without using WRC based cars. So basically we chose to make those rule changes and force the super high buck cars to conform to Open class. We didn't see a need to allow people to run full blown WRC cars and just not score them.
I can understand choosing Group N as the premiere class since it's a well defined world standard. We didn't choose it because we get crappier cars than the rest of the world thanks to our overly letigious nature and it would be signifigantly more expensive to buy all those Group N legal bits. If you want to foster more competition and make it less expensive I would suggest an island Open class similar to what we did. If it's the same price to get Group N bits as it is other bits, and you would like to maintain international interaction, then Group N is a good choice.
On one hand I don't want to endorse making it impossible for folks to find a place to play with wicked cool WRC cars. But on the other hand in order to maintain a competitive championship I think technology caps are necessary. You'll have to find the balance that matches your objectives.
Cheers,
-Doug
The way we handled it, in order to prevent someone from showing up with a one year old WRC car and cleaning everybody's clock that didn't spend three quarters of a million dollars on their ride is to ban active front and rear differentials along with electronically actuated gearshifts (eg: paddle shifters). You can run a sequential gearbox but you have to shift it manually. Electronic center diff control is allowed since it's fairly common and not a bank buster. So if you want to use WRC or Group A cars as Subaru of America did a couple of years back, you have to take all of the fancy toys out of them which puts them on par with a well prepared "normal" car. In fact I believe Mitsubishi ended up beating Subaru that year, without using WRC based cars. So basically we chose to make those rule changes and force the super high buck cars to conform to Open class. We didn't see a need to allow people to run full blown WRC cars and just not score them.
I can understand choosing Group N as the premiere class since it's a well defined world standard. We didn't choose it because we get crappier cars than the rest of the world thanks to our overly letigious nature and it would be signifigantly more expensive to buy all those Group N legal bits. If you want to foster more competition and make it less expensive I would suggest an island Open class similar to what we did. If it's the same price to get Group N bits as it is other bits, and you would like to maintain international interaction, then Group N is a good choice.
On one hand I don't want to endorse making it impossible for folks to find a place to play with wicked cool WRC cars. But on the other hand in order to maintain a competitive championship I think technology caps are necessary. You'll have to find the balance that matches your objectives.
Cheers,
-Doug
| blowbyu24 | 02-02-2007 02:55 PM |
i like it, but i would never buy it
| Ralliart4 | 02-02-2007 03:26 PM |
[quote=dch;16908853]The way we handled it, in order to prevent someone from showing up with a one year old WRC car and cleaning everybody's clock that didn't spend three quarters of a million dollars on their ride is to ban active front and rear differentials along with electronically actuated gearshifts (eg: paddle shifters). You can run a sequential gearbox but you have to shift it manually. Electronic center diff control is allowed since it's fairly common and not a bank buster. So if you want to use WRC or Group A cars as Subaru of America did a couple of years back, you have to take all of the fancy toys out of them which puts them on par with a well prepared "normal" car. In fact I believe Mitsubishi ended up beating Subaru that year, without using WRC based cars. So basically we chose to make those rule changes and force the super high buck cars to conform to Open class. We didn't see a need to allow people to run full blown WRC cars and just not score them.
I can understand choosing Group N as the premiere class since it's a well defined world standard. We didn't choose it because we get crappier cars than the rest of the world thanks to our overly letigious nature and it would be signifigantly more expensive to buy all those Group N legal bits. If you want to foster more competition and make it less expensive I would suggest an island Open class similar to what we did. If it's the same price to get Group N bits as it is other bits, and you would like to maintain international interaction, then Group N is a good choice.
On one hand I don't want to endorse making it impossible for folks to find a place to play with wicked cool WRC cars. But on the other hand in order to maintain a competitive championship I think technology caps are necessary. You'll have to find the balance that matches your objectives.
Cheers,
-Doug[/quote]
Thanks Doug that is a great answer i really appraciate it.
I understand about the US having a difficult time getting into the swing of the gp.n tango since we start behind and with newer and more trick models (especially subaru) coming out every 6mths it seems that us here the america will never catch up. Im trying to 'home' build a Gp.N car and its disgusting how far behind a standard us spec WRX is :( my pockets cry for torture.
I can understand choosing Group N as the premiere class since it's a well defined world standard. We didn't choose it because we get crappier cars than the rest of the world thanks to our overly letigious nature and it would be signifigantly more expensive to buy all those Group N legal bits. If you want to foster more competition and make it less expensive I would suggest an island Open class similar to what we did. If it's the same price to get Group N bits as it is other bits, and you would like to maintain international interaction, then Group N is a good choice.
On one hand I don't want to endorse making it impossible for folks to find a place to play with wicked cool WRC cars. But on the other hand in order to maintain a competitive championship I think technology caps are necessary. You'll have to find the balance that matches your objectives.
Cheers,
-Doug[/quote]
Thanks Doug that is a great answer i really appraciate it.
I understand about the US having a difficult time getting into the swing of the gp.n tango since we start behind and with newer and more trick models (especially subaru) coming out every 6mths it seems that us here the america will never catch up. Im trying to 'home' build a Gp.N car and its disgusting how far behind a standard us spec WRX is :( my pockets cry for torture.
| Yotsuya | 02-02-2007 03:30 PM |
[QUOTE=dch;16908853]I can understand choosing Group N as the premiere class since it's a well defined world standard.[/QUOTE]
Just out of curiosity, what would happen if someone tried to bring over a Super 1600 or (God forbid) 2000 car? They're probably going to become higher profile in the rest of the rally world than group N.
Just out of curiosity, what would happen if someone tried to bring over a Super 1600 or (God forbid) 2000 car? They're probably going to become higher profile in the rest of the rally world than group N.
| dch | 02-02-2007 03:35 PM |
[QUOTE=Yotsuya;16909658]Just out of curiosity, what would happen if someone tried to bring over a Super 1600 or (God forbid) 2000 car? They're probably going to become higher profile in the rest of the rally world than group N.[/QUOTE]
Just about anything will qualify in Open class, as long as it doesn't have the fancy electronics described above and meets the minimum weight of 2,700 pounds. You may be able to get away with paddle shifters in Group 5 for the 1600 cars (no minimum weight there either I believe), I'd have to double check the current state of the rules. G5 is really Open class for 2WD.
Just about anything will qualify in Open class, as long as it doesn't have the fancy electronics described above and meets the minimum weight of 2,700 pounds. You may be able to get away with paddle shifters in Group 5 for the 1600 cars (no minimum weight there either I believe), I'd have to double check the current state of the rules. G5 is really Open class for 2WD.
| Ralliart4 | 02-02-2007 03:38 PM |
[quote=Yotsuya;16909658]Just out of curiosity, what would happen if someone tried to bring over a Super 1600 or (God forbid) 2000 car? They're probably going to become higher profile in the rest of the rally world than group N.[/quote]
After seeing some videos of those S2000 (no no not the honda s2000) cars in testing they are going to be disgusting... and in my feeble mind VERY EXPENSIVE. There goes the reason for the change ie: saving cost. But pretty much gives the whole championship series to honda if they choose to take the plunge.
After seeing some videos of those S2000 (no no not the honda s2000) cars in testing they are going to be disgusting... and in my feeble mind VERY EXPENSIVE. There goes the reason for the change ie: saving cost. But pretty much gives the whole championship series to honda if they choose to take the plunge.
| Yotsuya | 02-02-2007 04:07 PM |
S2000 is expensive, but there seem to be lot of them out there, and this year they'll run the Safari which is more than has been asked of modern WRC cars for a number of years...
| jeffroh22vtec | 02-02-2007 04:51 PM |
[QUOTE=RB5 Clone;16896007]My codriver Erik had an RHD Evo street car, and when he'd go thru toll booths, he'd fork over the $$$ with a lacrosse stick.[/QUOTE]
:lol:
:lol:
| bjorn240 | 02-02-2007 05:50 PM |
[QUOTE=Yotsuya;16910195]S2000 is expensive, but there seem to be lot of them out there, and this year they'll run the Safari which is more than has been asked of modern WRC cars for a number of years...[/QUOTE]
The "Safari" that's being run in the IRC is nothing like the Safari of old.
The "Safari" that's being run in the IRC is nothing like the Safari of old.
| burned | 02-03-2007 01:47 AM |
[quote=Ralliart4;16909580]Thanks Doug that is a great answer i really appraciate it.
I understand about the US having a difficult time getting into the swing of the gp.n tango since we start behind and with newer and more trick models (especially subaru) coming out every 6mths it seems that us here the america will never catch up. Im trying to 'home' build a Gp.N car and its disgusting how far behind a standard us spec WRX is :( my pockets cry for torture.[/quote]
Well a WRX is a pice of **** to start whit making a Gr. N. In europe we use strictly STI cars. And by my humble opinion there is only three factories capeble enough to make a top class Subaru Top Run (italy) , Prodrive (uk) , Makkinen Motorsports ( finnland). we have built us an Gr A8 car and it was a dissaster it is lower in cost if you buy one made by these three firms.
Oh and about the cars that you get it is simply because of your ****ty fuel that you have theese restricitons in Europe there are more harsh laws about Ecology and still we have more powerfull cars!
I understand about the US having a difficult time getting into the swing of the gp.n tango since we start behind and with newer and more trick models (especially subaru) coming out every 6mths it seems that us here the america will never catch up. Im trying to 'home' build a Gp.N car and its disgusting how far behind a standard us spec WRX is :( my pockets cry for torture.[/quote]
Well a WRX is a pice of **** to start whit making a Gr. N. In europe we use strictly STI cars. And by my humble opinion there is only three factories capeble enough to make a top class Subaru Top Run (italy) , Prodrive (uk) , Makkinen Motorsports ( finnland). we have built us an Gr A8 car and it was a dissaster it is lower in cost if you buy one made by these three firms.
Oh and about the cars that you get it is simply because of your ****ty fuel that you have theese restricitons in Europe there are more harsh laws about Ecology and still we have more powerfull cars!
| OBShahn | 02-03-2007 08:59 AM |
[QUOTE=burned;16915726]Well a WRX is a pice of **** to start whit making a Gr. N. In europe we use strictly STI cars. And by my humble opinion there is only three factories capeble enough to make a top class Subaru Top Run (italy)[/QUOTE]
And Top Run has such a stellar and upstanding reputation....
And Top Run has such a stellar and upstanding reputation....
| M. Hurst | 02-03-2007 09:05 AM |
[QUOTE=burned;16915726]
Oh and about the cars that you get it is simply because of your ****ty fuel that you have theese restricitons in Europe there are more harsh laws about Ecology and still we have more powerfull cars![/QUOTE]
No, it's because of economics, not fuel.
It's not just the tailpipe emissions levels, it's also about what is required to monitor the emission systems.
New cars must use "OBD II' emisssions system which require that every part of the system have a monitor, and a universal method for diagnosis. The catalytic converters and even the fuel tank evap system uses a sensor to make sure the fumes are being recovered. When a new model with a new engine is introduced, these systems must be developed, and proven in extensive emissions durability testing.
Any model in the U.S. must sell in high quantities, or at a high profit margin to offset the costs of emissions development and testing. Selling the latest homologation (spec C or whatever) would have to be at a high price because of the low sales #s from the small market for a "homologation special".
GM, Ford, and DC all sell 500 HP production street cars (at high margins) that run just fine on our fuel.
Our commonly available premium unleaded "pump gas" is much better and higher octane than FIA spec gasoline required for Group N in international competition.
Oh and about the cars that you get it is simply because of your ****ty fuel that you have theese restricitons in Europe there are more harsh laws about Ecology and still we have more powerfull cars![/QUOTE]
No, it's because of economics, not fuel.
It's not just the tailpipe emissions levels, it's also about what is required to monitor the emission systems.
New cars must use "OBD II' emisssions system which require that every part of the system have a monitor, and a universal method for diagnosis. The catalytic converters and even the fuel tank evap system uses a sensor to make sure the fumes are being recovered. When a new model with a new engine is introduced, these systems must be developed, and proven in extensive emissions durability testing.
Any model in the U.S. must sell in high quantities, or at a high profit margin to offset the costs of emissions development and testing. Selling the latest homologation (spec C or whatever) would have to be at a high price because of the low sales #s from the small market for a "homologation special".
GM, Ford, and DC all sell 500 HP production street cars (at high margins) that run just fine on our fuel.
Our commonly available premium unleaded "pump gas" is much better and higher octane than FIA spec gasoline required for Group N in international competition.
| burned | 02-03-2007 09:12 AM |
[quote=OBShahn;16916718]And Top Run has such a stellar and upstanding reputation....[/quote]
Almost always at the top in italian championship.
Almost always at the top in italian championship.
| Yotsuya | 02-03-2007 09:23 AM |
[QUOTE=bjorn240;16911699]The "Safari" that's being run in the IRC is nothing like the Safari of old.[/QUOTE]
Damn, only 300 or so competitive kilometers out of maybe a thousand? Is nothing sacred?
Damn, only 300 or so competitive kilometers out of maybe a thousand? Is nothing sacred?
| M. Hurst | 02-03-2007 09:27 AM |
[QUOTE=Yotsuya;16909658]Just out of curiosity, what would happen if someone tried to bring over a Super 1600 or (God forbid) 2000 car? They're probably going to become higher profile in the rest of the rally world than group N.[/QUOTE]
In Rally-America, a super 1600 car would run (and kick ass) in G2, S2000 will run with our GN (N4). I believe the same is true for the other sanctioning body too.
In Rally-America, a super 1600 car would run (and kick ass) in G2, S2000 will run with our GN (N4). I believe the same is true for the other sanctioning body too.
| Ralliart4 | 02-03-2007 10:03 AM |
[quote=burned;16915726]Well a WRX is a pice of **** to start whit making a Gr. N. In europe we use strictly STI cars. And by my humble opinion there is only three factories capeble enough to make a top class Subaru Top Run (italy) , Prodrive (uk) , Makkinen Motorsports ( finnland). we have built us an Gr A8 car and it was a dissaster it is lower in cost if you buy one made by these three firms.
Oh and about the cars that you get it is simply because of your ****ty fuel that you have theese restricitons in Europe there are more harsh laws about Ecology and still we have more powerfull cars![/quote]
Well honestly i do understand that the base us WRX is really not the most competitive approach but i am willing to try my hand at this.... becuase at least the WRX is a 2000cc motor unlike the 2500cc sti's here. I really just to try and round myself out a bit. I have had a couple evo's and ran a EvoII in N8 and a EvoIII in A8 along with another EvoII, EvoV for personal/track and light drag and a EvoVIII when i moved to america which i sold for a couple 240sx's when the drift craze took over to try an make some profit and gain some experience in another vehicle control oriented sport. I guess I wanted to try my hand at seeing how competitive i could make a standard car to gp.n rule specs with as many of the goodies as i can afford and maybee run some autox/rallyx till i can afford a rollcage.
My brother in law is trying to source a Makkinen N12 for himself for the end of this year and almost got him to compete in our annual international rally but due to schedule conflicts it did not happen. There is a guy with a WRC focus that bought his package directly from M Sport, another guy with a Evo8 fully built and serviced by Monster in Japan another gentleman from Barbados with a Makkinen WRC (i think it was there 2003 car) bought direct from Prodrive. I could go into the kinds of machines that people are looking at but i dont want to waste you guys time.
To say the least i have nothing close to the funds these guys play with :(
Oh and about the cars that you get it is simply because of your ****ty fuel that you have theese restricitons in Europe there are more harsh laws about Ecology and still we have more powerfull cars![/quote]
Well honestly i do understand that the base us WRX is really not the most competitive approach but i am willing to try my hand at this.... becuase at least the WRX is a 2000cc motor unlike the 2500cc sti's here. I really just to try and round myself out a bit. I have had a couple evo's and ran a EvoII in N8 and a EvoIII in A8 along with another EvoII, EvoV for personal/track and light drag and a EvoVIII when i moved to america which i sold for a couple 240sx's when the drift craze took over to try an make some profit and gain some experience in another vehicle control oriented sport. I guess I wanted to try my hand at seeing how competitive i could make a standard car to gp.n rule specs with as many of the goodies as i can afford and maybee run some autox/rallyx till i can afford a rollcage.
My brother in law is trying to source a Makkinen N12 for himself for the end of this year and almost got him to compete in our annual international rally but due to schedule conflicts it did not happen. There is a guy with a WRC focus that bought his package directly from M Sport, another guy with a Evo8 fully built and serviced by Monster in Japan another gentleman from Barbados with a Makkinen WRC (i think it was there 2003 car) bought direct from Prodrive. I could go into the kinds of machines that people are looking at but i dont want to waste you guys time.
To say the least i have nothing close to the funds these guys play with :(
| burned | 02-03-2007 10:27 AM |
I am sorry i forgot you have 2.5 sti versions (so does europe after 2005 :mad: ). But isn't a normal wrx 2.0 turbo engine verry difrent form the STI version cams, electronics ? My freind in Serbia has one( WRX turbo) imported from USA and it feels a bit soft on the power compared to a Full blood 2.0 STI. He was verry dissapointed when he drove a Normal Eu version STI because he said **** now i want this one insted of mine :).
WE also built our subaru from a stock car so i will make some proposals to you based on my experience . Change rear control arms!! set the car so that it will have a loose ass :) its faster around corners has less understeer
WE also built our subaru from a stock car so i will make some proposals to you based on my experience . Change rear control arms!! set the car so that it will have a loose ass :) its faster around corners has less understeer
| kotaro | 02-03-2007 10:46 AM |
[QUOTE=burned;16916755][QUOTE=OBShahn;16916718]And Top Run has such a stellar and upstanding reputation....[/QUOTE]
Almost always at the top in italian championship.[/QUOTE]
I think OBShahn wrote that thinking about Top Run's little "problem" in the PWRC in Australia 06.
Almost always at the top in italian championship.[/QUOTE]
I think OBShahn wrote that thinking about Top Run's little "problem" in the PWRC in Australia 06.
| Ralliart4 | 02-03-2007 11:39 AM |
[quote=burned;16917079]I am sorry i forgot you have 2.5 sti versions (so does europe after 2005 :mad: ). But isn't a normal wrx 2.0 turbo engine verry difrent form the STI version cams, electronics ? My freind in Serbia has one( WRX turbo) imported from USA and it feels a bit soft on the power compared to a Full blood 2.0 STI. He was verry dissapointed when he drove a Normal Eu version STI because he said **** now i want this one insted of mine :).
WE also built our subaru from a stock car so i will make some proposals to you based on my experience . Change rear control arms!! set the car so that it will have a loose ass :) its faster around corners has less understeer[/quote]
Thank you sir i will take that under advisement :)
But yes there is a pretty noticable difference with the US wrx 2.0 and the japan market 2.0 sti... this might give you a laugh. About two years ago i saw two imprezas dyno at home, one was a gp.n Gc8 Sti RA and the other was a brand new us spec WRX..... the rally car with the 32mm restrictor fitted still made more power through an ecutek tune (not even a motec/haltec/autronic) than the stock us wrx. I almost threw up.
WE also built our subaru from a stock car so i will make some proposals to you based on my experience . Change rear control arms!! set the car so that it will have a loose ass :) its faster around corners has less understeer[/quote]
Thank you sir i will take that under advisement :)
But yes there is a pretty noticable difference with the US wrx 2.0 and the japan market 2.0 sti... this might give you a laugh. About two years ago i saw two imprezas dyno at home, one was a gp.n Gc8 Sti RA and the other was a brand new us spec WRX..... the rally car with the 32mm restrictor fitted still made more power through an ecutek tune (not even a motec/haltec/autronic) than the stock us wrx. I almost threw up.
| OBShahn | 02-03-2007 02:14 PM |
[QUOTE=burned;16916755]Almost always at the top in italian championship.[/QUOTE]
And the PCWRC scrutineers list of cars to thuroughly check for compliance...
And not for nothing either...
And the PCWRC scrutineers list of cars to thuroughly check for compliance...
And not for nothing either...
| OBShahn | 02-03-2007 02:15 PM |
[QUOTE=kotaro;16917165]I think OBShahn wrote that thinking about Top Run's little "problem" in the PWRC in Australia 06.[/QUOTE]
Wasn't their first problem either...
Wasn't their first problem either...
| burned | 02-03-2007 02:44 PM |
They are italian what would you expect :D:D:D:D But their cars are known for their strong engines :lol:
| IllNastyImpreza | 02-03-2007 03:55 PM |
only got 14 grand so far....
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