| jr4jc | 01-28-2006 10:17 AM |
Rally Cross And Snow Tires
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ok i have an STI and nokian Hakkapeliitta tires. looking at the tread pattern it looks like its designed to sweep water snow etc away as the tire rolls forward.
for dry dirt rallycrosses and i DO NOT recommend driving to and from the event this way rain or no rain, [in rain could be dangerous would there be an advantage to putting these tires on backwards, so the tread pattern catches more dirt more fristion more traction!!!?????
for dry dirt rallycrosses and i DO NOT recommend driving to and from the event this way rain or no rain, [in rain could be dangerous would there be an advantage to putting these tires on backwards, so the tread pattern catches more dirt more fristion more traction!!!?????
| Tinamarie | 01-28-2006 11:47 PM |
Driving wins rallycrosses, not the way you have your tires installed. :)
Just put the tires on the car the way they are intended to be used, inflate them to the maximum pressure, and enjoy. Try not to think too much about it, just think about driving the car. You'll have a lot more fun that way and get much better results.
edit: once again, I have posted under my wife's name. i will now go log out and log back in as myself to avoid further editing and embarrassment.
:rolleyes:
Just put the tires on the car the way they are intended to be used, inflate them to the maximum pressure, and enjoy. Try not to think too much about it, just think about driving the car. You'll have a lot more fun that way and get much better results.
edit: once again, I have posted under my wife's name. i will now go log out and log back in as myself to avoid further editing and embarrassment.
:rolleyes:
| SuperRallyRoo | 01-29-2006 12:41 AM |
Sti's aren't great at rally cross. Too much power not enough traction with those 18" wheels or whatever size they are haha. I always beat sti's and wrx's (in rally crosses) in my n/a 1990 subaru legacy. :) Its all about the driver man.
| akuhner | 01-29-2006 09:37 AM |
[QUOTE=jr4jc]ok i have an STI and nokian Hakkapeliitta tires. looking at the tread pattern it looks like its designed to sweep water snow etc away as the tire rolls forward.
for dry dirt rallycrosses and i DO NOT recommend driving to and from the event this way rain or no rain, [in rain could be dangerous would there be an advantage to putting these tires on backwards, so the tread pattern catches more dirt more fristion more traction!!!?????[/QUOTE]
I had to read that three times to understand what the heck you are saying!
You don't think that the people who designed the tires know better than you do as to which way the tread pattern should face? My rule of thumb is, anytime you think you know better than the professional engineers who designed something like that, odds are you are wrong.
for dry dirt rallycrosses and i DO NOT recommend driving to and from the event this way rain or no rain, [in rain could be dangerous would there be an advantage to putting these tires on backwards, so the tread pattern catches more dirt more fristion more traction!!!?????[/QUOTE]
I had to read that three times to understand what the heck you are saying!
You don't think that the people who designed the tires know better than you do as to which way the tread pattern should face? My rule of thumb is, anytime you think you know better than the professional engineers who designed something like that, odds are you are wrong.
| reddevil | 01-29-2006 05:04 PM |
I understand what you are asking and I think you would get better traction.
As for driver being more important than tires is often complete BS. Tires WILL win in rallycross. It is almost like cheating when you have the right tires.
As for driver being more important than tires is often complete BS. Tires WILL win in rallycross. It is almost like cheating when you have the right tires.
| AngryBlueRS | 01-29-2006 06:32 PM |
[QUOTE=jr4jc]ok i have an STI and nokian Hakkapeliitta tires. [/QUOTE]
Stick with the proper installation. If for no other reason than you'll probably chew them up faster if they are mounted wrong.
Also, check the tread gap. I *think* the Hakka's exceed the .34" gap maximum for stock so they will bump you up to prep if you are not there already.
Stick with the proper installation. If for no other reason than you'll probably chew them up faster if they are mounted wrong.
Also, check the tread gap. I *think* the Hakka's exceed the .34" gap maximum for stock so they will bump you up to prep if you are not there already.
| akuhner | 01-30-2006 10:10 AM |
[QUOTE=reddevil]As for driver being more important than tires is often complete BS. Tires WILL win in rallycross. It is almost like cheating when you have the right tires.[/QUOTE]
Well yea, his tires will beat someone on RE92s no matter which way they are facing! The point is HE should worry about HIS driving skills more than the direction his tires are facing.
On Saturday I took 3rd in M4 at a snow/mud rally-x with lame Yokohama snows and 1.8 liters of flat four fury, a car that I had never raced before. The WRXs behind me could have had Hakkas on backwards and still gotten beat. I'm not even that good...
Well yea, his tires will beat someone on RE92s no matter which way they are facing! The point is HE should worry about HIS driving skills more than the direction his tires are facing.
On Saturday I took 3rd in M4 at a snow/mud rally-x with lame Yokohama snows and 1.8 liters of flat four fury, a car that I had never raced before. The WRXs behind me could have had Hakkas on backwards and still gotten beat. I'm not even that good...
| Chromer | 01-30-2006 10:23 AM |
In dry gravel they MIGHT have more grip, but in any other condition (mud, clay, sand, loam) where the tire has to "pump" loose material from under the tread they'll get clogged.
I think the WR, Hakka 4 and RSi will be OK with the .34" rule, the shoulder block gaps are about 1/4".
The .34" rule eliminates my search for an AT or MT truck tire that'll fit my Forester...
I think the WR, Hakka 4 and RSi will be OK with the .34" rule, the shoulder block gaps are about 1/4".
The .34" rule eliminates my search for an AT or MT truck tire that'll fit my Forester...
| Brabus | 01-30-2006 02:46 PM |
[QUOTE=reddevil]I understand what you are asking and I think you would get better traction.
As for driver being more important than tires is often complete BS. Tires WILL win in rallycross. It is almost like cheating when you have the right tires.[/QUOTE]
You are so right!!!!
When someone says the tires are not important it's either because he can not afford 'em or because he can't feel the difference between them. And if he can't feel the difference ......
[QUOTE=jr4jc][in rain could be dangerous would there be an advantage to putting these tires on backwards, so the tread pattern catches more dirt more fristion more traction!!!?????[/QUOTE]
Try it! You'll never know until you have tried it.
[QUOTE=Car #187]I had to read that three times to understand what the heck you are saying!
You don't think that the people who designed the tires know better than you do as to which way the tread pattern should face? My rule of thumb is, anytime you think you know better than the professional engineers who designed something like that, odds are you are wrong.[/QUOTE]
WoW... so you rallying with a wrc ? Or that 1993 1.8l was enginiered to be a rally car? In rally you use what's available to you and make things work and yes sometimes you know better than the enginieers because you are using something that was designed to be used for something else. So I would assume you never cut your tires? Interesting.......
As for driver being more important than tires is often complete BS. Tires WILL win in rallycross. It is almost like cheating when you have the right tires.[/QUOTE]
You are so right!!!!
When someone says the tires are not important it's either because he can not afford 'em or because he can't feel the difference between them. And if he can't feel the difference ......
[QUOTE=jr4jc][in rain could be dangerous would there be an advantage to putting these tires on backwards, so the tread pattern catches more dirt more fristion more traction!!!?????[/QUOTE]
Try it! You'll never know until you have tried it.
[QUOTE=Car #187]I had to read that three times to understand what the heck you are saying!
You don't think that the people who designed the tires know better than you do as to which way the tread pattern should face? My rule of thumb is, anytime you think you know better than the professional engineers who designed something like that, odds are you are wrong.[/QUOTE]
WoW... so you rallying with a wrc ? Or that 1993 1.8l was enginiered to be a rally car? In rally you use what's available to you and make things work and yes sometimes you know better than the enginieers because you are using something that was designed to be used for something else. So I would assume you never cut your tires? Interesting.......
| RB5 Clone | 01-30-2006 07:09 PM |
you guys need to get a grip. WRC cars don't mean squat for rallyX. a decent driver in an STI can kick butt even on the stock tires. heck, a good driver in a clapped-out Golf is gonna beat the STI guy, too. Happens every weekend.
a clueless driver in an STI is going to get spanked by some guy in a well prepped well driven 1.8 backyard built Impreza every time.
experimenting with hardware and tires is fine, but driver skill development is the #1 issue in getting better at rallyX. It's really quite a focused skill set, not at all like stage rally driving.
unfortunately, STIs have a bad rep at many rallyXes because guys show up in them who have more $ than skill. lend the STI to the guy in the home-built 1.8 Imp and after a couple of familiarization runs, he is going to beat the owner's butt soundly.
Dave G
Former rallyX pilote, now far gone into stage madness
a clueless driver in an STI is going to get spanked by some guy in a well prepped well driven 1.8 backyard built Impreza every time.
experimenting with hardware and tires is fine, but driver skill development is the #1 issue in getting better at rallyX. It's really quite a focused skill set, not at all like stage rally driving.
unfortunately, STIs have a bad rep at many rallyXes because guys show up in them who have more $ than skill. lend the STI to the guy in the home-built 1.8 Imp and after a couple of familiarization runs, he is going to beat the owner's butt soundly.
Dave G
Former rallyX pilote, now far gone into stage madness
| Fred | 01-30-2006 07:16 PM |
Yes, tires are extremely important in rallycross. You need a good tread pattern that works well in the dirt (or snow or gravel or whatever the surface is) and strong sidewalls to survive the sideways abuse. So whether you're a novice or a champ, get the best tires you can afford that are legal for your class. Period. And mount them the way they are intended to be mounted. Don't try to second-guess the engineers. :lol:
Now when you get to the level where you're setting the fastest times of the day, then you can rotate the tires from left to right and run them backward - and actually be able to tell a difference if there is one. Personal experience is usually the best teacher. :)
Now when you get to the level where you're setting the fastest times of the day, then you can rotate the tires from left to right and run them backward - and actually be able to tell a difference if there is one. Personal experience is usually the best teacher. :)
| Brabus | 01-30-2006 08:07 PM |
[QUOTE=RB5 Clone]you guys need to get a grip. WRC cars don't mean squat for rallyX. a decent driver in an STI can kick butt even on the stock tires. heck, a good driver in a clapped-out Golf is gonna beat the STI guy, too. Happens every weekend.
a clueless driver in an STI is going to get spanked by some guy in a well prepped well driven 1.8 backyard built Impreza every time.
experimenting with hardware and tires is fine, but driver skill development is the #1 issue in getting better at rallyX. It's really quite a focused skill set, not at all like stage rally driving.
unfortunately, STIs have a bad rep at many rallyXes because guys show up in them who have more $ than skill. lend the STI to the guy in the home-built 1.8 Imp and after a couple of familiarization runs, he is going to beat the owner's butt soundly.
Dave G
Former rallyX pilote, now far gone into stage madness[/QUOTE]
you are somewhat right and wrong too. An experienced driver has a better chance to win even with a slower car, especialy if that slower car is much lighter than the others.
But when we are talking about 2 driver in the same level with the same car ........
a clueless driver in an STI is going to get spanked by some guy in a well prepped well driven 1.8 backyard built Impreza every time.
experimenting with hardware and tires is fine, but driver skill development is the #1 issue in getting better at rallyX. It's really quite a focused skill set, not at all like stage rally driving.
unfortunately, STIs have a bad rep at many rallyXes because guys show up in them who have more $ than skill. lend the STI to the guy in the home-built 1.8 Imp and after a couple of familiarization runs, he is going to beat the owner's butt soundly.
Dave G
Former rallyX pilote, now far gone into stage madness[/QUOTE]
you are somewhat right and wrong too. An experienced driver has a better chance to win even with a slower car, especialy if that slower car is much lighter than the others.
But when we are talking about 2 driver in the same level with the same car ........
| The neck | 01-30-2006 09:07 PM |
Well Brabus,
I tend to agree agree with both Car 187 and RB5. From what I know they are both fairly experienced: Alex (187) six or so yrs rally-crossing, 3 yrs crew chief for NCRally Team; Dave (RB5) five or six years as both driver and co-driver for LastDitch Rally team.
In another thread, you hinted you had some experience too. I'm ready to hear what it is . . .
I tend to agree agree with both Car 187 and RB5. From what I know they are both fairly experienced: Alex (187) six or so yrs rally-crossing, 3 yrs crew chief for NCRally Team; Dave (RB5) five or six years as both driver and co-driver for LastDitch Rally team.
In another thread, you hinted you had some experience too. I'm ready to hear what it is . . .
| AlexP | 01-30-2006 09:55 PM |
[QUOTE=The neck]
In another thread, you hinted you had some experience too. I'm ready to hear what it is . . .[/QUOTE]
Yeah, what exactly IS your experience? I've personally seen that 187 dude cutting tires in the back of a service rig (and from what I've seen, all of the major rally tire manufacturers supply cutting instructions/guidelines)....
In another thread, you hinted you had some experience too. I'm ready to hear what it is . . .[/QUOTE]
Yeah, what exactly IS your experience? I've personally seen that 187 dude cutting tires in the back of a service rig (and from what I've seen, all of the major rally tire manufacturers supply cutting instructions/guidelines)....
| jr4jc | 01-31-2006 01:02 AM |
opened a can of worms i did hmmmm!!!!!!
experience is great for any driving especially rallycross--YES
and owning an sti i agree it is a lot of horsepower to be out there with, but oh so much fun.
reddevil and chromer and barbus thanks for your input and getting my point,
i will try the backwards method, the SNOW tires that i am using on DIRT the engineers designed to sweep water and snow etc away, i want them to catch dirt and give me traction, thus the question. if someone made a rally tire for my car i would not have to out think the engineers, any of you bright guys that know any of the engineers put in a good word and if they build a rallytire to fit my car i will be the first to buy and give up my evening job re thinking SNOW tires
fred there is a guy that keeps winning our rallycrosses w an isuzu 4wd turbo AND RALLY TIRES that is why i am asking, my times are almost always second fastest of the day, and not by much either so i am looking for anything that will give me 1/2 a second.
weight is my other factor my car is 600lbs heavier than his and some others, ya'll come to nashville and rallycross with us, had our first event last year and plan for several this year
experience is great for any driving especially rallycross--YES
and owning an sti i agree it is a lot of horsepower to be out there with, but oh so much fun.
reddevil and chromer and barbus thanks for your input and getting my point,
i will try the backwards method, the SNOW tires that i am using on DIRT the engineers designed to sweep water and snow etc away, i want them to catch dirt and give me traction, thus the question. if someone made a rally tire for my car i would not have to out think the engineers, any of you bright guys that know any of the engineers put in a good word and if they build a rallytire to fit my car i will be the first to buy and give up my evening job re thinking SNOW tires
fred there is a guy that keeps winning our rallycrosses w an isuzu 4wd turbo AND RALLY TIRES that is why i am asking, my times are almost always second fastest of the day, and not by much either so i am looking for anything that will give me 1/2 a second.
weight is my other factor my car is 600lbs heavier than his and some others, ya'll come to nashville and rallycross with us, had our first event last year and plan for several this year
| greg donovan | 01-31-2006 01:23 AM |
there was a 17 inch gravel rally tire. it was a limited production thing and would have cost something like 400 a tire or something crazy like that. it does not exist anymore. it would have been cheaper to get smaller brakes.
| solo-x | 01-31-2006 07:54 AM |
don't mount your snow tires backwards. that tread that wipes snow and water away from the tread face will do the same to loose dirt, the stuff you can't get much grip on. mounting them backwards will make the tire want to drag that loose dirt in under the tread face and reduce grip.
nate
nate
| Fred | 01-31-2006 08:36 AM |
Sounds like you are good enough to try the experiment for yourself. Asking a bunch of people on the Internet is not like trying it in the real world. :lol:
And if solo-x is right (and I believe he is), all you'll have to do is swap the wheels and tires from one side of the car to the other to get your traction back. So no big loss.
But if you're looking for 1/2 second, I don't think you're going to find it in changing the direction of the tires - you're more likely to find it in perfectly apexing the 3 corners you didn't quite get right. :) Of course, if you buy a 2.5RS and put some rally tires on it, you'll be instantly [I]crushing[/I] the guy with the isuzu. :devil:
And if solo-x is right (and I believe he is), all you'll have to do is swap the wheels and tires from one side of the car to the other to get your traction back. So no big loss.
But if you're looking for 1/2 second, I don't think you're going to find it in changing the direction of the tires - you're more likely to find it in perfectly apexing the 3 corners you didn't quite get right. :) Of course, if you buy a 2.5RS and put some rally tires on it, you'll be instantly [I]crushing[/I] the guy with the isuzu. :devil:
| akuhner | 01-31-2006 09:38 AM |
[QUOTE=Brabus] In rally you use what's available to you and make things work and yes sometimes you know better than the enginieers because you are using something that was designed to be used for something else. So I would assume you never cut your tires? Interesting.......[/QUOTE]
True enough, but rally tires are designed with the understanding that you can't have a tire that's perfect for every condition, so it is assumed that some will be cut. I've cut gravel tires and even Hakkas (cutting snows is tough!) for stage rally, but not for my car.
Still, everyone misses the point - the nut behind the wheel matters far more than your tread pattern.
Given two equal nuts driving two equal cars you can start worrying about tread patterns. At Colorado COG in 2005 I watched Pat Richard swap his tires front for rear before a 1/2 super special, right before a service, and I thought he was wasting his time. He won the event by 0.4 seconds after over 100 miles of racing a former world champion. When you get to that level of competition, worry about your tread pattern...
True enough, but rally tires are designed with the understanding that you can't have a tire that's perfect for every condition, so it is assumed that some will be cut. I've cut gravel tires and even Hakkas (cutting snows is tough!) for stage rally, but not for my car.
Still, everyone misses the point - the nut behind the wheel matters far more than your tread pattern.
Given two equal nuts driving two equal cars you can start worrying about tread patterns. At Colorado COG in 2005 I watched Pat Richard swap his tires front for rear before a 1/2 super special, right before a service, and I thought he was wasting his time. He won the event by 0.4 seconds after over 100 miles of racing a former world champion. When you get to that level of competition, worry about your tread pattern...
| RB5 Clone | 01-31-2006 09:53 AM |
The thing I've seen so many times at rallyXes is that some guy buys an STI, and naturally assumes that 300 HP and electronic diffs will conquer all.
Heh, the other thing I've seen so many times is the new STI pilotes tearing their hair as they are soundly spanked by beat up old Imprezas, oddball Isuzus, rusty Golfs, and (gaaak!) even a Toyota 4x4 pickup (all actual cases witnessed).
Then a funny thing tends to happen...those same STIs don't show up again for some reason. If ppl spent half as much time energy and $$ on developing their driving skills as they seem willing to expend on hardware, the standards at rallyX would be a whole lot higher.
Same thing applies to stage rally, but that's another thread...
Heh, the other thing I've seen so many times is the new STI pilotes tearing their hair as they are soundly spanked by beat up old Imprezas, oddball Isuzus, rusty Golfs, and (gaaak!) even a Toyota 4x4 pickup (all actual cases witnessed).
Then a funny thing tends to happen...those same STIs don't show up again for some reason. If ppl spent half as much time energy and $$ on developing their driving skills as they seem willing to expend on hardware, the standards at rallyX would be a whole lot higher.
Same thing applies to stage rally, but that's another thread...
| Brabus | 01-31-2006 10:16 AM |
[QUOTE=Car #187] At Colorado COG in 2005 I watched Pat Richard swap his tires front for rear before a 1/2 super special, right before a service, and I thought he was wasting his time. He won the event by 0.4 seconds after over 100 miles of racing a former world champion. When you get to that level of competition, worry about your tread pattern...[/QUOTE]
Depending on the surface you are racing on and your driving style there will be an uneven tyre wear between the front and the rear. If you on asphalt and brakeing hard the front tires will wear more if you are on gravel and slide a lot than the rear. So between stages you can swap 'em and gain some more grip.
I belive if someone start seriously thinking about tread pattern he is on that level. But it doesn't matter what level he is on it's not for you or me to decide, nobody has the right to start lecturing or trashing him.
Who would that former world champion be?
[QUOTE=AlexP]Yeah, what exactly IS your experience? [/QUOTE]
that would be ps2 and cmr2005 ;)
Depending on the surface you are racing on and your driving style there will be an uneven tyre wear between the front and the rear. If you on asphalt and brakeing hard the front tires will wear more if you are on gravel and slide a lot than the rear. So between stages you can swap 'em and gain some more grip.
I belive if someone start seriously thinking about tread pattern he is on that level. But it doesn't matter what level he is on it's not for you or me to decide, nobody has the right to start lecturing or trashing him.
Who would that former world champion be?
[QUOTE=AlexP]Yeah, what exactly IS your experience? [/QUOTE]
that would be ps2 and cmr2005 ;)
| Chromer | 01-31-2006 10:22 AM |
[QUOTE=jr4jc]fred there is a guy that keeps winning our rallycrosses w an isuzu 4wd turbo AND RALLY TIRES that is why i am asking, my times are almost always second fastest of the day, and not by much either so i am looking for anything that will give me 1/2 a second.[/QUOTE]
If you're in the same class as him, and you're about the same ability level, and he is on rally tires and is a half-second quicker, then maybe you should be too.
Or go a teensy bit slower and hit one less cone every 3 runs...
[QUOTE=Brabus]Who would that former world champion be?[/quote]
Stig Blomqvist.
If you're in the same class as him, and you're about the same ability level, and he is on rally tires and is a half-second quicker, then maybe you should be too.
Or go a teensy bit slower and hit one less cone every 3 runs...
[QUOTE=Brabus]Who would that former world champion be?[/quote]
Stig Blomqvist.
| Brabus | 01-31-2006 10:34 AM |
wow I didn't expect that name to pop up. He is old school from the good old Grouppe B. If he was beaten by only 0.4 second seems like he still got what it takes.... How old is he? 60 ?
| greg donovan | 01-31-2006 10:45 AM |
the most effective uses i have seen of an STi are mark utecht in his prtty much stock 04 STi w/hakkas and doug havir in his yellow rocketship of a STi open class rally car.
w/the anti-lag turned to 11 and the center diff set to full rear Havir spanked everyone. 1.5 bar of boost will do that. it was a very dusty day and the course had a lot of switch backs that were very close together. he would come flying into the hairpin and the dust cloud thrown up during braking ang from the previous hairpin would be so huge that the car would totally dissapear. and then BANG! BANG! BANG! the thing would explode out of the corner and emerge out of the dustcloud like a horizontal space shuttle launch.
utecht is hard to beat in his STi, but then again he is hard to beat in anything. from a clapped out stripped FWD justy to his old omni GLH-S w/a welded diff and a crap load of boost. his GN subie was beatable if the course was very twisty. his new mustang (mike Hurst's old one) will be a different story this summer i am sure. but he will still be in the top 5 i imagine.
w/the anti-lag turned to 11 and the center diff set to full rear Havir spanked everyone. 1.5 bar of boost will do that. it was a very dusty day and the course had a lot of switch backs that were very close together. he would come flying into the hairpin and the dust cloud thrown up during braking ang from the previous hairpin would be so huge that the car would totally dissapear. and then BANG! BANG! BANG! the thing would explode out of the corner and emerge out of the dustcloud like a horizontal space shuttle launch.
utecht is hard to beat in his STi, but then again he is hard to beat in anything. from a clapped out stripped FWD justy to his old omni GLH-S w/a welded diff and a crap load of boost. his GN subie was beatable if the course was very twisty. his new mustang (mike Hurst's old one) will be a different story this summer i am sure. but he will still be in the top 5 i imagine.
| greg donovan | 01-31-2006 10:48 AM |
[QUOTE=Brabus]wow I didn't expect that name to pop up. He is old school from the good old Grouppe B. If he was beaten by only 0.4 second seems like he still got what it takes.... How old is he? 60 ?[/QUOTE]
wow. you really havent been following US rally at all have you?
Pat Richard beat Stig a couple times last season and ended up winning the Rally America drivers championship last season.
wow. you really havent been following US rally at all have you?
Pat Richard beat Stig a couple times last season and ended up winning the Rally America drivers championship last season.
| davis10 | 01-31-2006 11:54 AM |
[QUOTE=Car #187]Well yea, his tires will beat someone on RE92s no matter which way they are facing! The point is HE should worry about HIS driving skills more than the direction his tires are facing.
On Saturday I took 3rd in M4 at a snow/mud rally-x with lame Yokohama snows and 1.8 liters of flat four fury, a car that I had never raced before. The WRXs behind me could have had Hakkas on backwards and still gotten beat. I'm not even that good...[/QUOTE]
so it is better if your hakkas are on backwards...
P.S. your not answering the question
On Saturday I took 3rd in M4 at a snow/mud rally-x with lame Yokohama snows and 1.8 liters of flat four fury, a car that I had never raced before. The WRXs behind me could have had Hakkas on backwards and still gotten beat. I'm not even that good...[/QUOTE]
so it is better if your hakkas are on backwards...
P.S. your not answering the question
| davis10 | 01-31-2006 12:01 PM |
everyone knows that the driver is more important then the car, but that wasnt the question.
how about using rally tires but siping them, so they work better in snow. That way if having a rally tire is more important to you then having the best snow tire you can still save mone4y by buying only one set of tires. has anyone tried this.
how about using rally tires but siping them, so they work better in snow. That way if having a rally tire is more important to you then having the best snow tire you can still save mone4y by buying only one set of tires. has anyone tried this.
| akuhner | 01-31-2006 12:25 PM |
[QUOTE=Brabus] that would be ps2 and cmr2005 ;)[/QUOTE]
I see the smiley, but please tell me you are kidding?! You are trying to tell me why fronts wear faster than rears on a rally car and you are a couch potato?! :lol:
I guess I should have elaborated for the newbs, but I assumed everyone would understand why you'd swap fronts for rears... I thought Pat was wasting his time because it was just a 1/2 mile super special stage where I didn't think there was much time to gain.
I see the smiley, but please tell me you are kidding?! You are trying to tell me why fronts wear faster than rears on a rally car and you are a couch potato?! :lol:
I guess I should have elaborated for the newbs, but I assumed everyone would understand why you'd swap fronts for rears... I thought Pat was wasting his time because it was just a 1/2 mile super special stage where I didn't think there was much time to gain.
| akuhner | 01-31-2006 12:27 PM |
[QUOTE=davis10]P.S. [B]you're[/B] not answering the question[/QUOTE]
I know. :D
BTW - I put my old Hakka 1s on facing backwards once, but it wasn't intentional, just a dumb mistake. You couldn't tell the difference in grip in the snow.
I know. :D
BTW - I put my old Hakka 1s on facing backwards once, but it wasn't intentional, just a dumb mistake. You couldn't tell the difference in grip in the snow.
| greg donovan | 01-31-2006 01:00 PM |
[QUOTE=davis10]everyone knows that the driver is more important then the car, but that wasnt the question.
how about using rally tires but siping them, so they work better in snow. That way if having a rally tire is more important to you then having the best snow tire you can still save mone4y by buying only one set of tires. has anyone tried this.[/QUOTE]
i can not stress enough how bad of an idea it is to use gravel rally tires as snow tired for the street, let alone gravel rally tires at a ambient temp that is at or near freezing.
gravel rally tires are very soft. howeever, the compound turns very hard when it gets cold out.
rally tires are terrible on ice. sure the pattern is pretty good for snow but the compound will kill you. you are better (but not by much) off using the stock STi potenzas in the snow.
how about using rally tires but siping them, so they work better in snow. That way if having a rally tire is more important to you then having the best snow tire you can still save mone4y by buying only one set of tires. has anyone tried this.[/QUOTE]
i can not stress enough how bad of an idea it is to use gravel rally tires as snow tired for the street, let alone gravel rally tires at a ambient temp that is at or near freezing.
gravel rally tires are very soft. howeever, the compound turns very hard when it gets cold out.
rally tires are terrible on ice. sure the pattern is pretty good for snow but the compound will kill you. you are better (but not by much) off using the stock STi potenzas in the snow.
| RB5 Clone | 01-31-2006 02:09 PM |
well, posters here ARE answering the original question. It just seems like nobody is listening.
the consensus is, "...maybe switching your snows around would help some small amount (esp if tires are rounded on outside edges) but until the driver starts losing events by fractions of a second, he'd be a lot better off worrying about his own car-control skills and not some miniscule tire advantage."
At the SCCA RallyXes I ran in 2003-2004 it was not unusual to have the top 3 cars overall finish within the same second, even after 8 runs of 60-90 seconds apiece. At that level, you'd definitely be looking for every possible advantage, no matter how small. Hitting just one cone--one steenkin cone--would knock you back to an "also-ran."
But for somebody starting out like the original poster, it's definitely better to focus on amassing seat time, learning the ropes, and getting the hang of simple, key rallyX techniques like staying in first gear (yes, highly effective) keeping yer mitts off the ((*&^&^%#!! e-brake (wasteful technique) and, yes, picking the right tires.
Dave G
[url]www.lastditchracing.net[/url]
the consensus is, "...maybe switching your snows around would help some small amount (esp if tires are rounded on outside edges) but until the driver starts losing events by fractions of a second, he'd be a lot better off worrying about his own car-control skills and not some miniscule tire advantage."
At the SCCA RallyXes I ran in 2003-2004 it was not unusual to have the top 3 cars overall finish within the same second, even after 8 runs of 60-90 seconds apiece. At that level, you'd definitely be looking for every possible advantage, no matter how small. Hitting just one cone--one steenkin cone--would knock you back to an "also-ran."
But for somebody starting out like the original poster, it's definitely better to focus on amassing seat time, learning the ropes, and getting the hang of simple, key rallyX techniques like staying in first gear (yes, highly effective) keeping yer mitts off the ((*&^&^%#!! e-brake (wasteful technique) and, yes, picking the right tires.
Dave G
[url]www.lastditchracing.net[/url]
| Fred | 01-31-2006 02:31 PM |
[QUOTE]key rallyX techniques like staying in first gear (yes, highly effective) [/QUOTE]
I'm glad I don't rallyx in your area! :eek: :lol:
My RS was FTD overall again this past weekend, and I was on the rev limiter 3 times on the afternoon course - in 2nd gear. That's 55mph to those who don't know RSes well.
After running that course, I had the :banana: in my pants. :lol:
I'm glad I don't rallyx in your area! :eek: :lol:
My RS was FTD overall again this past weekend, and I was on the rev limiter 3 times on the afternoon course - in 2nd gear. That's 55mph to those who don't know RSes well.
After running that course, I had the :banana: in my pants. :lol:
| greg donovan | 01-31-2006 03:03 PM |
[QUOTE=Fred]I'm glad I don't rallyx in your area! :eek: :lol:
My RS was FTD overall again this past weekend, and I was on the rev limiter 3 times on the afternoon course - in 2nd gear. That's 55mph to those who don't know RSes well.
After running that course, I had the :banana: in my pants. :lol:[/QUOTE]
isnt 55 mph is over the suggest max course layout speed by the SCCA?
My RS was FTD overall again this past weekend, and I was on the rev limiter 3 times on the afternoon course - in 2nd gear. That's 55mph to those who don't know RSes well.
After running that course, I had the :banana: in my pants. :lol:[/QUOTE]
isnt 55 mph is over the suggest max course layout speed by the SCCA?
| Chromer | 01-31-2006 04:17 PM |
[QUOTE=greg donovan]isnt 55 mph is over the suggest max course layout speed by the SCCA?[/QUOTE]
Just a leetle beet, though I haven't seen all of the 2006 rules yet. Can't imagine that part has changed much though.
Just a leetle beet, though I haven't seen all of the 2006 rules yet. Can't imagine that part has changed much though.
| SlideWRX | 01-31-2006 04:41 PM |
[QUOTE=jr4jc]
reddevil and chromer and barbus thanks for your input and getting my point,
i will try the backwards method, the SNOW tires that i am using on DIRT the engineers designed to sweep water and snow etc away, i want them to catch dirt and give me traction, thus the question. [/QUOTE]
Generally, you want to sweep the dirt away to get at harder surfaces underneath for grip. Turning the tread around basicaly turns it into a paddle, which is good for deep sand when there [i] isn't[/i] a hard surface underneath to grip.
Just like water, sweep the gravel away to get at what's underneath. Similar to water, if you try to keep it (dirt) in the tread you'll ride over the dirt and have less traction.
Tom
reddevil and chromer and barbus thanks for your input and getting my point,
i will try the backwards method, the SNOW tires that i am using on DIRT the engineers designed to sweep water and snow etc away, i want them to catch dirt and give me traction, thus the question. [/QUOTE]
Generally, you want to sweep the dirt away to get at harder surfaces underneath for grip. Turning the tread around basicaly turns it into a paddle, which is good for deep sand when there [i] isn't[/i] a hard surface underneath to grip.
Just like water, sweep the gravel away to get at what's underneath. Similar to water, if you try to keep it (dirt) in the tread you'll ride over the dirt and have less traction.
Tom
| akuhner | 01-31-2006 05:15 PM |
[QUOTE=greg donovan]isnt 55 mph is over the [B]suggested [/B] max course layout speed by the SCCA?[/QUOTE]
heck, it's just a suggestion... :D
heck, it's just a suggestion... :D
| davis10 | 01-31-2006 05:38 PM |
[QUOTE=RB5 Clone]well, posters here ARE answering the original question. It just seems like nobody is listening.
the consensus is, "...maybe switching your snows around would help some small amount (esp if tires are rounded on outside edges) but until the driver starts losing events by fractions of a second, he'd be a lot better off worrying about his own car-control skills and not some miniscule tire advantage."
At the SCCA RallyXes I ran in 2003-2004 it was not unusual to have the top 3 cars overall finish within the same second, even after 8 runs of 60-90 seconds apiece. At that level, you'd definitely be looking for every possible advantage, no matter how small. Hitting just one cone--one steenkin cone--would knock you back to an "also-ran."
But for somebody starting out like the original poster, it's definitely better to focus on amassing seat time, learning the ropes, and getting the hang of simple, key rallyX techniques like staying in first gear (yes, highly effective) keeping yer mitts off the ((*&^&^%#!! e-brake (wasteful technique) and, yes, picking the right tires.
Dave G
[url]www.lastditchracing.net[/url][/QUOTE]
well said
the consensus is, "...maybe switching your snows around would help some small amount (esp if tires are rounded on outside edges) but until the driver starts losing events by fractions of a second, he'd be a lot better off worrying about his own car-control skills and not some miniscule tire advantage."
At the SCCA RallyXes I ran in 2003-2004 it was not unusual to have the top 3 cars overall finish within the same second, even after 8 runs of 60-90 seconds apiece. At that level, you'd definitely be looking for every possible advantage, no matter how small. Hitting just one cone--one steenkin cone--would knock you back to an "also-ran."
But for somebody starting out like the original poster, it's definitely better to focus on amassing seat time, learning the ropes, and getting the hang of simple, key rallyX techniques like staying in first gear (yes, highly effective) keeping yer mitts off the ((*&^&^%#!! e-brake (wasteful technique) and, yes, picking the right tires.
Dave G
[url]www.lastditchracing.net[/url][/QUOTE]
well said
| Fred | 01-31-2006 08:07 PM |
Tarheel Sports Car Club is NOT affiliated with the SCCA... :D
- Kevin Allen, THSCC Rallycross VP (& the main course designer)
- Kevin Allen, THSCC Rallycross VP (& the main course designer)
| kwh29 | 02-01-2006 12:03 AM |
And people need to chill! Geez why does every thread in motorsports about Rally become an "I was grooving tires with chisels back in ought nine so I know what I'm talking about" vs "Y0 B**** I just ran 30 laps on my PS2 and slicks are MUCH fastAr!" ego fest?
--Kevin H.
--Kevin H.
| Brabus | 02-01-2006 03:41 AM |
[QUOTE=Car #187]I see the smiley, but please tell me you are kidding?! You are trying to tell me why fronts wear faster than rears on a rally car and you are a couch potato?! :lol:
I guess I should have elaborated for the newbs, but I assumed everyone would understand why you'd swap fronts for rears... I thought Pat was wasting his time because it was just a 1/2 mile super special stage where I didn't think there was much time to gain.[/QUOTE]
Geez do you believe everything you read? I stoped rallying in 1999. Why? Because I moved to the US and simply put there was no way to do it.
If you wonder about why would somone waste his time swaping wheels and gaining a little more grip for the last stage ( even tho it's only a 1/2 mile and you don't know how badly his tires was damaged ) you obviously not in the position to lecture anybody. Not to mention that you say you don't think there was much time to gain with better tires..... No offense, but only because you rally 6 or so years doesn't mean anything. It's not the years that count.
The guy who started this thread had a question. Instead of helping him some people turned this thread into a flamfest. If someone doesn't have any knowledgeable input on the subject, why bother typing?
I guess I should have elaborated for the newbs, but I assumed everyone would understand why you'd swap fronts for rears... I thought Pat was wasting his time because it was just a 1/2 mile super special stage where I didn't think there was much time to gain.[/QUOTE]
Geez do you believe everything you read? I stoped rallying in 1999. Why? Because I moved to the US and simply put there was no way to do it.
If you wonder about why would somone waste his time swaping wheels and gaining a little more grip for the last stage ( even tho it's only a 1/2 mile and you don't know how badly his tires was damaged ) you obviously not in the position to lecture anybody. Not to mention that you say you don't think there was much time to gain with better tires..... No offense, but only because you rally 6 or so years doesn't mean anything. It's not the years that count.
The guy who started this thread had a question. Instead of helping him some people turned this thread into a flamfest. If someone doesn't have any knowledgeable input on the subject, why bother typing?
| akuhner | 02-01-2006 09:13 AM |
[QUOTE=Brabus]I stoped rallying in 1999. Why? Because I moved to the US and simply put there was no way to do it. [/QUOTE]
Where did you used to rally?
Where did you used to rally?
| bjorn240 | 02-01-2006 09:24 AM |
[QUOTE=Brabus]The guy who started this thread had a question. Instead of helping him some people turned this thread into a flamfest. If someone doesn't have any knowledgeable input on the subject, why bother typing?[/QUOTE]
On the contrary, "Learn to drive, and don't worry about putting snow tires on backwards." is probably the best possible answer to the question posed.
- Christian
On the contrary, "Learn to drive, and don't worry about putting snow tires on backwards." is probably the best possible answer to the question posed.
- Christian
| akuhner | 02-01-2006 09:26 AM |
[QUOTE=kwh29]And people need to chill! Geez why does every thread in motorsports about Rally become an "I was grooving tires with chisels back in ought nine so I know what I'm talking about" vs "Y0 B**** I just ran 30 laps on my PS2 and slicks are MUCH fastAr!" ego fest?
--Kevin H.[/QUOTE]
Because for every post that has rational thoughts based on actual experience you get 5 posts spreading dis-information based on crackpot theory. I was a newbie once, back when it was i-club with 500 members who posted useful information (or stayed quiet!), and I didn't have to sift through the crackpot theories. If you don't explain the basis for the information you are posting, how is anyone supposed to sort through the dis-information?
And adding to that, these days nobody actually wants to listen, everyone just wants to flex their e-muscles and be right....
--Kevin H.[/QUOTE]
Because for every post that has rational thoughts based on actual experience you get 5 posts spreading dis-information based on crackpot theory. I was a newbie once, back when it was i-club with 500 members who posted useful information (or stayed quiet!), and I didn't have to sift through the crackpot theories. If you don't explain the basis for the information you are posting, how is anyone supposed to sort through the dis-information?
And adding to that, these days nobody actually wants to listen, everyone just wants to flex their e-muscles and be right....
| bjorn240 | 02-01-2006 09:32 AM |
Dude, Car #187,
In rallies have noticed that on slow corners, unless I apply a lot of LFB, the car has a tendency to understeer. Today I was parallel parking and realized I can inscribe a much smaller circle when backing up. I was wondering, should I back into the hairpins at STPR? Also, if I do that, should I mount the tires bACkWordz or forwards????
Best regards,
Noob McNooberson
In rallies have noticed that on slow corners, unless I apply a lot of LFB, the car has a tendency to understeer. Today I was parallel parking and realized I can inscribe a much smaller circle when backing up. I was wondering, should I back into the hairpins at STPR? Also, if I do that, should I mount the tires bACkWordz or forwards????
Best regards,
Noob McNooberson
| greg donovan | 02-01-2006 09:54 AM |
[QUOTE=bjorn240]Dude, Car #187,
In rallies have noticed that on slow corners, unless I apply a lot of LFB, the car has a tendency to understeer. Today I was parallel parking and realized I can inscribe a much smaller circle when backing up. I was wondering, should I back into the hairpins at STPR? Also, if I do that, should I mount the tires bACkWordz or forwards????
Best regards,
Noob McNooberson[/QUOTE]
i suggest you drive the whole rally in reverse.
remember how well jim rockford could rotate the car around in reverse?
In rallies have noticed that on slow corners, unless I apply a lot of LFB, the car has a tendency to understeer. Today I was parallel parking and realized I can inscribe a much smaller circle when backing up. I was wondering, should I back into the hairpins at STPR? Also, if I do that, should I mount the tires bACkWordz or forwards????
Best regards,
Noob McNooberson[/QUOTE]
i suggest you drive the whole rally in reverse.
remember how well jim rockford could rotate the car around in reverse?
| bjorn240 | 02-01-2006 09:55 AM |
Dear Starsky,
Understood. Which way should I mount the tires?
Hutch
Understood. Which way should I mount the tires?
Hutch
| greg donovan | 02-01-2006 10:02 AM |
[QUOTE=bjorn240]Dear Starsky,
Understood. Which way should I mount the tires?
Hutch[/QUOTE]
sideways. since that is the ideal way to drive through a corner.
p.s.
dont forget to put extra wax on the hood.
Understood. Which way should I mount the tires?
Hutch[/QUOTE]
sideways. since that is the ideal way to drive through a corner.
p.s.
dont forget to put extra wax on the hood.
| bhamwrxman | 02-01-2006 10:06 AM |
Hah. Stumbled into this thread. Hey JR, more goodness to come for my wrx. The Isuzu is going down. Muhahahahahahahahaha.
| bjorn240 | 02-01-2006 10:53 AM |
[QUOTE=greg donovan]dont forget to put extra wax on the hood.[/QUOTE]
Dude, the wax goes on the ass, not the hood. And no rivets on the jeans. Best to practice in sweatpants.
- Christian
Dude, the wax goes on the ass, not the hood. And no rivets on the jeans. Best to practice in sweatpants.
- Christian
| greg donovan | 02-01-2006 10:57 AM |
[QUOTE=bjorn240]Dude, the wax goes on the ass, not the hood. And no rivets on the jeans. Best to practice in sweatpants.
- Christian[/QUOTE]
mental note--
when fighting crime on the stages w/christian wear dockers. and bring extra posterior wax.
- Christian[/QUOTE]
mental note--
when fighting crime on the stages w/christian wear dockers. and bring extra posterior wax.
| RB5 Clone | 02-01-2006 11:55 AM |
gaaak. mods pls help
lock button...lock button
lock button...lock button
| greg donovan | 02-01-2006 12:22 PM |
[QUOTE=RB5 Clone]gaaak. mods pls help
lock button...lock button[/QUOTE]
why?
christian and i were just getting warmed up.
he is in rare form today.
lock button...lock button[/QUOTE]
why?
christian and i were just getting warmed up.
he is in rare form today.
| bjorn240 | 02-01-2006 01:00 PM |
Yes, warming up the wax helps with even application and reducing unsighly bumps and scratches.
On the hood! On the hood! Scratches on the hood!
- Christian
On the hood! On the hood! Scratches on the hood!
- Christian
| greg donovan | 02-01-2006 01:35 PM |
[QUOTE=bjorn240]Yes, warming up the wax helps with even application and reducing unsighly bumps and scratches.
On the hood! On the hood! Scratches on the hood!
- Christian[/QUOTE]
true story swear to god,
the kids of a family friend washed the car with GRAVEL! no water just a big old bucket 'o gravel.
this is why i love the kuhmo r700 for FWD cars. there is no backwards. unless you cut them. cutting tires is not fun.
spent a rainy morning in the back of a van in lawn chair inhaling burnt rubber.
then we got around to grooving the tires.
On the hood! On the hood! Scratches on the hood!
- Christian[/QUOTE]
true story swear to god,
the kids of a family friend washed the car with GRAVEL! no water just a big old bucket 'o gravel.
this is why i love the kuhmo r700 for FWD cars. there is no backwards. unless you cut them. cutting tires is not fun.
spent a rainy morning in the back of a van in lawn chair inhaling burnt rubber.
then we got around to grooving the tires.
| RB5 Clone | 02-01-2006 02:44 PM |
is there a "loose cannon" button for the mods?
what happens when the mods ARE loose cannons? :devil:
DG
what happens when the mods ARE loose cannons? :devil:
DG
| fastfreddy | 02-01-2006 03:01 PM |
[QUOTE]you guys need to get a grip. WRC cars don't mean squat for rallyX. a decent driver in an STI can kick butt even on the stock tires. heck, a good driver in a clapped-out Golf is gonna beat the STI guy, too. Happens every weekend.
a clueless driver in an STI is going to get spanked by some guy in a well prepped well driven 1.8 backyard built Impreza every time.
experimenting with hardware and tires is fine, but driver skill development is the #1 issue in getting better at rallyX. It's really quite a focused skill set, not at all like stage rally driving.
unfortunately, STIs have a bad rep at many rallyXes because guys show up in them who have more $ than skill. lend the STI to the guy in the home-built 1.8 Imp and after a couple of familiarization runs, he is going to beat the owner's butt soundly.
Dave G
Former rallyX pilote, now far gone into stage madness
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]The thing I've seen so many times at rallyXes is that some guy buys an STI, and naturally assumes that 300 HP and electronic diffs will conquer all.
Heh, the other thing I've seen so many times is the new STI pilotes tearing their hair as they are soundly spanked by beat up old Imprezas, oddball Isuzus, rusty Golfs, and (gaaak!) even a Toyota 4x4 pickup (all actual cases witnessed).
Then a funny thing tends to happen...those same STIs don't show up again for some reason. If ppl spent half as much time energy and $$ on developing their driving skills as they seem willing to expend on hardware, the standards at rallyX would be a whole lot higher.
Same thing applies to stage rally, but that's another thread...
[/QUOTE]
RB5 Clone - you seem very bitter about people who drive STI's.
Perhaps santa can bring you one next year a cheer you up a bit.......
a clueless driver in an STI is going to get spanked by some guy in a well prepped well driven 1.8 backyard built Impreza every time.
experimenting with hardware and tires is fine, but driver skill development is the #1 issue in getting better at rallyX. It's really quite a focused skill set, not at all like stage rally driving.
unfortunately, STIs have a bad rep at many rallyXes because guys show up in them who have more $ than skill. lend the STI to the guy in the home-built 1.8 Imp and after a couple of familiarization runs, he is going to beat the owner's butt soundly.
Dave G
Former rallyX pilote, now far gone into stage madness
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]The thing I've seen so many times at rallyXes is that some guy buys an STI, and naturally assumes that 300 HP and electronic diffs will conquer all.
Heh, the other thing I've seen so many times is the new STI pilotes tearing their hair as they are soundly spanked by beat up old Imprezas, oddball Isuzus, rusty Golfs, and (gaaak!) even a Toyota 4x4 pickup (all actual cases witnessed).
Then a funny thing tends to happen...those same STIs don't show up again for some reason. If ppl spent half as much time energy and $$ on developing their driving skills as they seem willing to expend on hardware, the standards at rallyX would be a whole lot higher.
Same thing applies to stage rally, but that's another thread...
[/QUOTE]
RB5 Clone - you seem very bitter about people who drive STI's.
Perhaps santa can bring you one next year a cheer you up a bit.......
| Fred | 02-01-2006 03:19 PM |
Actually it's true - unless you've swapped the brakes so that you can run rally tires, an STi is pretty useless on a typical rallyx course. That's why I decided to stick with the RS and just run the STi on tarmac. It's my "tarmac rallyx car" :devil:
Well-driven totally stock STi's can win (mine has :p ), but average noob showing up in STi will get owned by good driver in 1990 Legacy automatic. Just ask solo2wrx about it - I'm sure he'd be happy to tell you. :lol:
Well-driven totally stock STi's can win (mine has :p ), but average noob showing up in STi will get owned by good driver in 1990 Legacy automatic. Just ask solo2wrx about it - I'm sure he'd be happy to tell you. :lol:
| RB5 Clone | 02-01-2006 03:37 PM |
[QUOTE=fastfreddy]RB5 Clone - you seem very bitter about people who drive STI's.
Perhaps santa can bring you one next year a cheer you up a bit.......[/QUOTE]
Not bitter a bit, I get to drive students' STIs a lot while teaching at Team O'Neil. One of the really fun bits is demoing the diff controller while circling the skidpad....can you say "Mustang mode" ? It really is quite a hooligan kind of car.
My earlier posts are just relating a very clear syndrome I've seen again and again at rallyXes when STI drivers show up and get spanked by what they quite obviously regard as "lesser" cars. Have also witnessed a couple of front axle failures when newbies experiment with full throttle at high steering angles (tho this phenom is by no means limited to STIs).
DG
Perhaps santa can bring you one next year a cheer you up a bit.......[/QUOTE]
Not bitter a bit, I get to drive students' STIs a lot while teaching at Team O'Neil. One of the really fun bits is demoing the diff controller while circling the skidpad....can you say "Mustang mode" ? It really is quite a hooligan kind of car.
My earlier posts are just relating a very clear syndrome I've seen again and again at rallyXes when STI drivers show up and get spanked by what they quite obviously regard as "lesser" cars. Have also witnessed a couple of front axle failures when newbies experiment with full throttle at high steering angles (tho this phenom is by no means limited to STIs).
DG
| fastfreddy | 02-01-2006 03:57 PM |
Nah - you just sound bitter.
Live and let live.
Live and let live.
| Fred | 02-01-2006 07:04 PM |
:lol: I remember my first time playing around in the field with the diff set at full open - that was a serious excercise in futility! :lol: I had driven a rallyx BMW before, but that was a lot lighter and had 15" tires with all-seasons - it was at least [I]slightly[/I] controllable. Still haven't played around with DCCD on tarmac yet; always leave it on "auto" for daily driving. Auto mode is still pretty fun, though. :devil:
[QUOTE]One of the really fun bits is demoing the diff controller while circling the skidpad....can you say "Mustang mode" ? It really is quite a hooligan kind of car.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]One of the really fun bits is demoing the diff controller while circling the skidpad....can you say "Mustang mode" ? It really is quite a hooligan kind of car.[/QUOTE]
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