| wobblywunk | 11-22-2006 11:46 PM |
RS + work = STI?
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hey guyes it's wobblywunk here:
ok so now that im getting more confortable with my RS, im starting to think about adding mod's to it (not now of course its still new, but I want to start getting an idea of what's good and what's bad and what's possible, etc).
So, when i was first wanting to get a new car, i wanted to STI obviously but i can't get it because 1) the insurance would be WAY too high and 2)the price of the car is WAY to high... i then wanted a WRX to go down a step but that's still too high, so i got the RS in hopes that i could later mod it to be as good as an STI so i wouldn't have to pay as high of insuarnce etc.
So uh...is that possible? I know you can get turbo's n such for a car and i mean im sure you can make it an sti, you can make anything, anything u want but...do you guyes think its worth it/ practical?
and if so....how much am i goin here pricewise?
also, on this note....how hard is it to install turbo on your car..i mean i obviously would need to konw what im doing so if i wanted to do it myself i would OBVIOUSLY research a lot, but do you think im better off just taking it to someone else to do it?
yea so i dunno im just throwing ideas around im not gonna do anything anytime soon.
k well..thanks for whoever cares enough to respond =)
--wobblywunk.
ok so now that im getting more confortable with my RS, im starting to think about adding mod's to it (not now of course its still new, but I want to start getting an idea of what's good and what's bad and what's possible, etc).
So, when i was first wanting to get a new car, i wanted to STI obviously but i can't get it because 1) the insurance would be WAY too high and 2)the price of the car is WAY to high... i then wanted a WRX to go down a step but that's still too high, so i got the RS in hopes that i could later mod it to be as good as an STI so i wouldn't have to pay as high of insuarnce etc.
So uh...is that possible? I know you can get turbo's n such for a car and i mean im sure you can make it an sti, you can make anything, anything u want but...do you guyes think its worth it/ practical?
and if so....how much am i goin here pricewise?
also, on this note....how hard is it to install turbo on your car..i mean i obviously would need to konw what im doing so if i wanted to do it myself i would OBVIOUSLY research a lot, but do you think im better off just taking it to someone else to do it?
yea so i dunno im just throwing ideas around im not gonna do anything anytime soon.
k well..thanks for whoever cares enough to respond =)
--wobblywunk.
| jasonallenross | 11-22-2006 11:52 PM |
for me right now, time is in shorter supply than money (but not by much) .... if I really wanted a STI I would buy one rather than trying to make one (maybe consider used vs new). Have you actually researched the difference in insurance costs and so on? You as a consumer are going to have a really hard time making an RS into a STI for the same money Subaru charges.
| timeattack | 11-22-2006 11:58 PM |
Just a quick reply because I am busy at work. IMO I believe you could make you RS somewhat of an STI but I wouldn't suggest modding your factory motor to convert it into an STI motor, because that would require too much money and work. You should do a search and find out what year STI motor is most compatible with your car and do a motor/ecu/tranny swap. Still will cost some money but the motor comes fully built from subaru. Don't get me wrong you could mod the motor you currently have and get decent power from it, but in regards to your question it wouldn't be an STI. Just remember it is your car and you should do what makes you happy, not what people tell you should be done. Research, Research, Research...
| projectrally | 11-23-2006 12:00 AM |
possible, yes. worthwhile...only if you like the build as much as the drive. cost effective...not at all. better off to just buy a used STi and call it a day.
| IIdiceII | 11-23-2006 02:31 AM |
honestly, not worth the money unless you find a salvaged STi for cheap...like one that got into an accident and you swap the motor and tranny, brakes etc. over to your RS.
gonna be LOTS of money.
gonna be LOTS of money.
| kheovnien | 11-23-2006 03:26 AM |
2004 sti ftw. by the time u get the motor, tranny, wheels, brakes and all the interior goodies ur probably well over the price of a used sti. i would venture to say that u might be best off with a used wrx and to then build that up. it's all gonna come down to wut YOU will be happy with and how much YOU can afford. once u find the sweet spot between then u have ur answer. good luck.
| awdanger | 11-23-2006 11:58 AM |
with the right turbo system and tranny mods you can problably get it up to an sti but after that itll get harder
2.5i has 173hp, wrx has 224hp, sti has 293 hp
its definitly possible and costs less when you look at how expensive insurance is, ive seen 11 sec v6 camaros 9 sec civics dont let anyone tell you anything is impossible...
2.5i has 173hp, wrx has 224hp, sti has 293 hp
its definitly possible and costs less when you look at how expensive insurance is, ive seen 11 sec v6 camaros 9 sec civics dont let anyone tell you anything is impossible...
| Uncle Scotty | 11-23-2006 12:42 PM |
....d000000d.....
ya startin with a one room mud hut tryin ta build the Taj Mahal.....got it???
ya startin with a one room mud hut tryin ta build the Taj Mahal.....got it???
| awdanger | 11-23-2006 12:53 PM |
hes not trying to get 600hp to the wheels now, with a 50hp difference between a wrx and 2.5 its more than possible especially with that few extra thousand he saves on insurance...
| Uncle Scotty | 11-23-2006 01:01 PM |
[QUOTE=awdanger;16090517]hes not trying to get 600hp to the wheels now, with a 50hp difference between a wrx and 2.5 its more than possible especially with that few extra thousand he saves on insurance...[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes: ....OMG.....you REALLY-REALLY need to stop posting until you get a clue
:rolleyes: ....OMG.....you REALLY-REALLY need to stop posting until you get a clue
| awdanger | 11-23-2006 01:09 PM |
OMG you really really need to say something informative, if im misinformed tell me the difference between the ej25 and the wrx ej25 that only makes 50 extra horses with a turbo system?
I dont know anywhere near everything about car but I do know that a wrx will cost thousands more on insurance a year and you can get an old turbo setup from a wrx for pretty cheap...
I dont know anywhere near everything about car but I do know that a wrx will cost thousands more on insurance a year and you can get an old turbo setup from a wrx for pretty cheap...
| steve | 11-23-2006 01:14 PM |
[QUOTE=awdanger;16090638]OMG you really really need to say something informative, if im misinformed tell me the difference between the ej25 and the wrx ej25 that only makes 50 extra horses with a turbo system?
I dont know anywhere near everything about car but I do know that a wrx will cost thousands more on insurance a year and you can get an old turbo setup from a wrx for pretty cheap...[/QUOTE]
Your ignorance shines through based on the fact that you're arguing peak power, as opposed to torque, and power UNDER the curve. Look at a WRX dyno plot, then look at a 2.5i plot and tell me again about how close they are. You'll find that one makes much more usable power than the other.
To the OP, parts on an RS, will not make an STi. It's just so much more of a performance car, from the steering rack, to the suspension parts, to the diffs, to the tranny, etc, etc, etc. I know of a lot of fast WRX's, but overall the STi is much better all around.
You will never build an STi for cheaper than just buying a used STi. Bottom line.
I dont know anywhere near everything about car but I do know that a wrx will cost thousands more on insurance a year and you can get an old turbo setup from a wrx for pretty cheap...[/QUOTE]
Your ignorance shines through based on the fact that you're arguing peak power, as opposed to torque, and power UNDER the curve. Look at a WRX dyno plot, then look at a 2.5i plot and tell me again about how close they are. You'll find that one makes much more usable power than the other.
To the OP, parts on an RS, will not make an STi. It's just so much more of a performance car, from the steering rack, to the suspension parts, to the diffs, to the tranny, etc, etc, etc. I know of a lot of fast WRX's, but overall the STi is much better all around.
You will never build an STi for cheaper than just buying a used STi. Bottom line.
| awdanger | 11-23-2006 01:21 PM |
if i was ignorant i wouldnt be asking for an explination, if you want to insult me because im asking for HELPFUL input fine
and you just said what ive been saying, true theres a huge difference when youre talking apples and oranges but at the same time theres a huge difference between a wrx and an sti yet people still tune the wrx and get fine numbers
im 18, there are 3 people in my house and we insure 2 cars and we pay over 5grand a year so all im saying is nothing is as impossible as everybody here seems to think
EDIT: also a wrx will run 30k, an sti will run 40k in this area, for a new one
and you just said what ive been saying, true theres a huge difference when youre talking apples and oranges but at the same time theres a huge difference between a wrx and an sti yet people still tune the wrx and get fine numbers
im 18, there are 3 people in my house and we insure 2 cars and we pay over 5grand a year so all im saying is nothing is as impossible as everybody here seems to think
EDIT: also a wrx will run 30k, an sti will run 40k in this area, for a new one
| flashmagic | 11-23-2006 04:20 PM |
Hey...kinda new here. But take it from me, I had a car that wasnt what i wanted (auto 240sx) and after all the time and money trying to get it to where i wanted it....Could've just waited a year or 2 and gotten what I wanted. Its always worth the wait.
| awdanger | 11-23-2006 04:28 PM |
thats what im doing
im gonna get my 2.5 looking nice and in 2 years ill get a wrx, i just believe its up to him not everybody else
im gonna get my 2.5 looking nice and in 2 years ill get a wrx, i just believe its up to him not everybody else
| Uncle Scotty | 11-23-2006 06:31 PM |
[QUOTE=awdanger;16092214]thats what im doing
im gonna get my 2.5 looking nice and in 2 years ill get a wrx, i just believe its up to him not everybody else[/QUOTE]
.....d0000d.....it IS reality.
Reality is that as much as someone wishes something to be true and wanting it bad enough may make it so.
BUT....the cost may make the whole thing just plain stupid and a total waste of everything involved.
Spending $10K to have a car that is all modded and swapped and hacked and spliced that runs a couple times a month is NOT worth it to a kid needing a reliable daily driver.
This whole notion of kiddies doing such stupid and insane things to cars is what has lead us to the 'rice kiddies' driving POS cars that are pure junk----THINKING that they are koo and in reality, are stupid to have attempted to do such stupid things as make a caviler(or insert other POS, here) anything but a POS.
YOU need to wake up to reality---and wake up yer buddies that buy cars thinking(falsely) that they can just slap on parts(almost invariably junk APC and POS crap) to a car and it will be 'just as good as yer sti' :rolleyes:
WAKE THE HELL UP
im gonna get my 2.5 looking nice and in 2 years ill get a wrx, i just believe its up to him not everybody else[/QUOTE]
.....d0000d.....it IS reality.
Reality is that as much as someone wishes something to be true and wanting it bad enough may make it so.
BUT....the cost may make the whole thing just plain stupid and a total waste of everything involved.
Spending $10K to have a car that is all modded and swapped and hacked and spliced that runs a couple times a month is NOT worth it to a kid needing a reliable daily driver.
This whole notion of kiddies doing such stupid and insane things to cars is what has lead us to the 'rice kiddies' driving POS cars that are pure junk----THINKING that they are koo and in reality, are stupid to have attempted to do such stupid things as make a caviler(or insert other POS, here) anything but a POS.
YOU need to wake up to reality---and wake up yer buddies that buy cars thinking(falsely) that they can just slap on parts(almost invariably junk APC and POS crap) to a car and it will be 'just as good as yer sti' :rolleyes:
WAKE THE HELL UP
| WRXDriftR | 11-23-2006 06:32 PM |
i smell so much hatred on Thanksgiving :lol:
| wobblywunk | 11-23-2006 06:50 PM |
haha amen.
lke i already said the REASON i didn't just buy a used STI is b/c of INSUARNCE...im 17 so insurance on an STI would be so high...
and i don't need it to be just like an STI...i just wanna soup it up a lil bit...the only thing i really want is to turbocharge it...it's doesn't have to be exactly like the STI's i just wanna get my car faster... any suggestions?
thanks
--wobblywunk
lke i already said the REASON i didn't just buy a used STI is b/c of INSUARNCE...im 17 so insurance on an STI would be so high...
and i don't need it to be just like an STI...i just wanna soup it up a lil bit...the only thing i really want is to turbocharge it...it's doesn't have to be exactly like the STI's i just wanna get my car faster... any suggestions?
thanks
--wobblywunk
| wrxzboost | 11-23-2006 07:21 PM |
[QUOTE=wobblywunk;16087995]so i got the RS in hopes that i could later mod it to be as good as an STI so i wouldn't have to pay as high of insuarnce etc.
So uh...is that possible? [/QUOTE]
no...that was easy.
its more than just mods; its an entirely different car and will never feel/be an sti. i'm sure if you drops loads of cash you can get close, but in the end won't be worth it.
suggestion: keep it and love it...you've got lots of time in life to buy whatever you want. most likely you'll move on from subaru's and realize there are millions of other cars.
So uh...is that possible? [/QUOTE]
no...that was easy.
its more than just mods; its an entirely different car and will never feel/be an sti. i'm sure if you drops loads of cash you can get close, but in the end won't be worth it.
suggestion: keep it and love it...you've got lots of time in life to buy whatever you want. most likely you'll move on from subaru's and realize there are millions of other cars.
| rally_on | 11-23-2006 07:33 PM |
start with suspension and wheels/tires. make it handle like a beast.
then cams, pistons, rods, and a supercharger.
make it a touge machine
my .02
then cams, pistons, rods, and a supercharger.
make it a touge machine
my .02
| Uncle Scotty | 11-23-2006 09:39 PM |
[QUOTE=wobblywunk;16092898]haha amen.
lke i already said the REASON i didn't just buy a used STI is b/c of INSUARNCE...im 17 so insurance on an STI would be so high...
and i don't need it to be just like an STI...i just wanna soup it up a lil bit...[B]the only thing i really want is to turbocharge it[/B]...it's doesn't have to be exactly like the STI's i just wanna get my car faster... any suggestions?
thanks
--wobblywunk[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes: ....d000000000000d.....ya are NOT 'just gonna turbocharge it'.
THAT is what I'm tryin ta tell ya....IT AINT HAPPENIN.
THEY COST A WHOLE ****POT OF $$$ AND THEY BLOW UP REAL EASY AND IT IS NOT 'SIMPLE' OR 'EASY' OR RELIABLE.
WAKE UP
lke i already said the REASON i didn't just buy a used STI is b/c of INSUARNCE...im 17 so insurance on an STI would be so high...
and i don't need it to be just like an STI...i just wanna soup it up a lil bit...[B]the only thing i really want is to turbocharge it[/B]...it's doesn't have to be exactly like the STI's i just wanna get my car faster... any suggestions?
thanks
--wobblywunk[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes: ....d000000000000d.....ya are NOT 'just gonna turbocharge it'.
THAT is what I'm tryin ta tell ya....IT AINT HAPPENIN.
THEY COST A WHOLE ****POT OF $$$ AND THEY BLOW UP REAL EASY AND IT IS NOT 'SIMPLE' OR 'EASY' OR RELIABLE.
WAKE UP
| IIdiceII | 11-23-2006 09:53 PM |
yes way to many people need to realize that your wrx with 10k invested into it maybe faster than a stock STi...but what would you rather drive?
a stock car that is legal, never touched, safe to drive every day without having to worry about ANYTHING going wrong...and if it does, warranty work :D
OR
a modded car, bad resale value, hacked up, no warranty work etc. etc.
save yourself the headache and just buy an sti if you really want sti performance safely and if you want to drive it everday.
a stock car that is legal, never touched, safe to drive every day without having to worry about ANYTHING going wrong...and if it does, warranty work :D
OR
a modded car, bad resale value, hacked up, no warranty work etc. etc.
save yourself the headache and just buy an sti if you really want sti performance safely and if you want to drive it everday.
| homestar_kevin | 11-23-2006 10:04 PM |
[QUOTE=wobblywunk;16092898]haha amen.
lke i already said the REASON i didn't just buy a used STI is b/c of INSUARNCE...im 17 so insurance on an STI would be so high...
and i don't need it to be just like an STI...i just wanna soup it up a lil bit...the only thing i really want is to turbocharge it...it's doesn't have to be exactly like the STI's i just wanna get my car faster... any suggestions?
thanks
--wobblywunk[/QUOTE]
Why don't yoou just enjoy being 17 with a car? Why do you feel the need to 'soup' it up? Just be happy with what you have, make your car payment (assuming your parents didn't buy it for you, in which case you better get your flame suit on dude) and save other money. Focus on not wrecking your car, not getting any tickets, and biding your time until your insurance will go down. Then buy a used STI. Be happy with what you have man.
Kevin
lke i already said the REASON i didn't just buy a used STI is b/c of INSUARNCE...im 17 so insurance on an STI would be so high...
and i don't need it to be just like an STI...i just wanna soup it up a lil bit...the only thing i really want is to turbocharge it...it's doesn't have to be exactly like the STI's i just wanna get my car faster... any suggestions?
thanks
--wobblywunk[/QUOTE]
Why don't yoou just enjoy being 17 with a car? Why do you feel the need to 'soup' it up? Just be happy with what you have, make your car payment (assuming your parents didn't buy it for you, in which case you better get your flame suit on dude) and save other money. Focus on not wrecking your car, not getting any tickets, and biding your time until your insurance will go down. Then buy a used STI. Be happy with what you have man.
Kevin
| clutchcargo | 11-23-2006 10:10 PM |
Also, by the time you've endorsed your insurance policy to include the bolt ons you'd be surprised at how much extra premium you'd be paying. Where I am its actually pro-rata cheaper to insure an STi than it is a WRX, just based on theft figures.
In real terms, to bolt on a turbo to an RS:
1. Factor in the compression ratio (which is higher in the RS thus you can't run as high-boost), you'll need a TD035 or TD04 at 10psi.
2. You'll need to have your headers modded (or fit wrx headers) so the uppipe goes to the turbo.
3. You'll need a new zorst, at least the dump pipe.
4. You'lll likely need an ECU, and tuning.
5. You'll need an intercooler, a wrx bonnet and scoop.
It still won't stop, go, or turn like an STi, nor will it feel as "solid", so before you do anything go to a dealer and test drive the wrx and STi then make up your mind.
Not sure on cost, but I can almost guarantee you it will be more than just holding onto your car and upgrading to what you want later on.
Cheers,
Ben
Happy thanksgiving from across the Pacific.
In real terms, to bolt on a turbo to an RS:
1. Factor in the compression ratio (which is higher in the RS thus you can't run as high-boost), you'll need a TD035 or TD04 at 10psi.
2. You'll need to have your headers modded (or fit wrx headers) so the uppipe goes to the turbo.
3. You'll need a new zorst, at least the dump pipe.
4. You'lll likely need an ECU, and tuning.
5. You'll need an intercooler, a wrx bonnet and scoop.
It still won't stop, go, or turn like an STi, nor will it feel as "solid", so before you do anything go to a dealer and test drive the wrx and STi then make up your mind.
Not sure on cost, but I can almost guarantee you it will be more than just holding onto your car and upgrading to what you want later on.
Cheers,
Ben
Happy thanksgiving from across the Pacific.
| Uncle Scotty | 11-23-2006 10:11 PM |
[QUOTE=IIdiceII;16094090]yes way to many people need to realize that your wrx with 10k invested into it maybe faster than a stock STi...but what would you rather drive?
a stock car that is legal, never touched, safe to drive every day without having to worry about ANYTHING going wrong...and if it does, warranty work :D
OR
a modded car, bad resale value, hacked up, no warranty work etc. etc.
save yourself the headache and just buy an sti if you really want sti performance safely and if you want to drive it everday.[/QUOTE]
.....d00000d...his car is an RS......got that????
...and with all the ******** buying STi's, id MUCH rather NOT have one TYVM
a stock car that is legal, never touched, safe to drive every day without having to worry about ANYTHING going wrong...and if it does, warranty work :D
OR
a modded car, bad resale value, hacked up, no warranty work etc. etc.
save yourself the headache and just buy an sti if you really want sti performance safely and if you want to drive it everday.[/QUOTE]
.....d00000d...his car is an RS......got that????
...and with all the ******** buying STi's, id MUCH rather NOT have one TYVM
| awdanger | 11-24-2006 12:25 AM |
doesnt your insurance check your car every year? mine does so a turbo is out of the question for me
my advice is dont let anybody here tell you no, because with enough cash anything is possible
NOW to be realistic, you and i are still young so you can either blow all your cash on a car to be something that it isnt (and you will blow it all especially if your insurance looks under the hood) or you can wait a few years maybe until youre 24 and with all that money you saved up buy an sti, ive got a 2.5 and im 18 so im gonna try to add the 50 hp through NA mods get some wheels and lowering springs, in a few years me and my dad get an insurance discount then ill get a wrx
the problem with our generation is that were always in a hurry dont worry about your friends car being faster than yours, give it time
my advice is dont let anybody here tell you no, because with enough cash anything is possible
NOW to be realistic, you and i are still young so you can either blow all your cash on a car to be something that it isnt (and you will blow it all especially if your insurance looks under the hood) or you can wait a few years maybe until youre 24 and with all that money you saved up buy an sti, ive got a 2.5 and im 18 so im gonna try to add the 50 hp through NA mods get some wheels and lowering springs, in a few years me and my dad get an insurance discount then ill get a wrx
the problem with our generation is that were always in a hurry dont worry about your friends car being faster than yours, give it time
| FQ_22b | 11-24-2006 12:55 AM |
Don't turbo the RS. Just do simple mods. Build the NA motor. Learn. By the time you've read this site 3098309420948 times and had hands on experiance under the hood you'll either be close to graduating college(and getting a pimp job) or you'll already have a job. In other words. Keep it simple on the RS. I've seen NA RS's that are faster than WRXs. Once you get some money, then do major mods, but make your first major mod selling the RS and getting a STI. Ask anyone who has a high HP car... They either started small and slowly worked there way up or they paid for someone else to make it that way and they know nothing about it. So you've either gotta build it slowly yourself or have the cash to buy it already built.
Is it possible to turbo a RS? - yes
lots of people did it on the 01 and older RS's and made decent numbers.
Is it the practical or the best route to go? - no
By the time you get it built up right you would have spent more than enough money to get an STI.
If you're worried about insurance do a swap on an older RS or buy a WRX wagon.
Best advice you can get....
do not rush into anything. READ READ READ. After you've learned TONS of information and know almost everything about subbies READ some more. Don't ever stop. Even the best experts learn new and better ways to do things every day. Not to mention newer and better products come out every day. Be patient. Save your money. Eventually you'll have plenty of money saved to do what ever you want to your car AND you'll have the knowledge to do it.
Is it possible to turbo a RS? - yes
lots of people did it on the 01 and older RS's and made decent numbers.
Is it the practical or the best route to go? - no
By the time you get it built up right you would have spent more than enough money to get an STI.
If you're worried about insurance do a swap on an older RS or buy a WRX wagon.
Best advice you can get....
do not rush into anything. READ READ READ. After you've learned TONS of information and know almost everything about subbies READ some more. Don't ever stop. Even the best experts learn new and better ways to do things every day. Not to mention newer and better products come out every day. Be patient. Save your money. Eventually you'll have plenty of money saved to do what ever you want to your car AND you'll have the knowledge to do it.
| wobblywunk | 11-24-2006 05:34 PM |
ok just so you guyes know...
i was just asking if it was possible. i never said i was going to do it i said i was thinking about it and yes i do already love my car as it is so guyes stop getting pissed off...and also..uncle w/e...stop saying "d00000000d" that's REALLY retarded and annoying.
--wobblywunk
i was just asking if it was possible. i never said i was going to do it i said i was thinking about it and yes i do already love my car as it is so guyes stop getting pissed off...and also..uncle w/e...stop saying "d00000000d" that's REALLY retarded and annoying.
--wobblywunk
| wobblywunk | 11-24-2006 05:44 PM |
oh, and "awdanger" and "FQ...."...THANKS
that's ALL i wanted to know...=)
--wobblywunk
that's ALL i wanted to know...=)
--wobblywunk
| waktasz | 11-24-2006 09:38 PM |
If you are REALLY REALLY serious about this, the best way to get up to STI power would be complete driveline swap, and selling your RS motor while it is still new.
| awdanger | 11-24-2006 09:41 PM |
[quote=waktasz;16101654]If you are REALLY REALLY serious about this, the best way to get up to STI power would be complete driveline swap, and selling your RS motor while it is still new.[/quote]
2003 isnt exactly new
2003 isnt exactly new
| ptwerp84 | 11-25-2006 07:13 PM |
whoa...It's true. you could drop 3 or 4 grand for a turbo set up and get a nice car, but it will never be an STI. Even with a turbo the motors are not tuned the same If you get a STI motor and turbo set-up sweet...but to make a true STI you'll end up haveing to replace the tranny, and then the drive shaft and then the diffs, and so on. It will ust keep going until you are left with an RS body on STI parts. It isn't worth the hastle.
| wobblywunk | 11-26-2006 03:30 PM |
Modified The Thread
�
�
ok so scratch the STI...what are ways you can mod ur car to make it faster ex. turbo chargin it ...and how would u do it? for anybody who feels like posting it up...im not planning on doing this anytime soon im just wondering what's out there etc...in case i want to later.
thanks
--wobblywunk
thanks
--wobblywunk
| Handsdown | 11-26-2006 03:46 PM |
[size=7]you posted this in the interior and exterior modification forum; it belongs in the subaru conversions technical forum.[/size]
however, uncle scotty is right- it will not happen with your current engine and drivetrain.
swap the rear differentials for LSD-equipped R160/180 units and then swap the engine and crossmember for factory turbo subaru units.
lie to your insurance company and be a liar if you wish, but it would be cheaper to buy a used turbo wrx or sti than do all of this and you would be straight and righteous with the insurance companies.
the real question, underneath all of this, is WHY THE HELL DO YOU NEED THE POWER OR PERFORMANCE OF AN STI? i'm not saying it's not fun but there's no way to do it without money, and the only reason you don't already have an STI is lack of money. so what the hell is so bad about having a slow RS?
however, uncle scotty is right- it will not happen with your current engine and drivetrain.
swap the rear differentials for LSD-equipped R160/180 units and then swap the engine and crossmember for factory turbo subaru units.
lie to your insurance company and be a liar if you wish, but it would be cheaper to buy a used turbo wrx or sti than do all of this and you would be straight and righteous with the insurance companies.
the real question, underneath all of this, is WHY THE HELL DO YOU NEED THE POWER OR PERFORMANCE OF AN STI? i'm not saying it's not fun but there's no way to do it without money, and the only reason you don't already have an STI is lack of money. so what the hell is so bad about having a slow RS?
| awdanger | 11-26-2006 03:58 PM |
once again, lying to your insurance seems like a good idea but some like mine (AIG) check every year
do what im gonna do, find a local tune shop that specializes in AWD cars with a good reputation then stop by and talk to them
im sure theyll be able to answer all your questions and give you a price quote besides its not like theyre gonna force you to buy something today just stop by and tell them youve been thinking about it
do what im gonna do, find a local tune shop that specializes in AWD cars with a good reputation then stop by and talk to them
im sure theyll be able to answer all your questions and give you a price quote besides its not like theyre gonna force you to buy something today just stop by and tell them youve been thinking about it
| Handsdown | 11-26-2006 04:14 PM |
unless it's a nationally renouned shop, i wouldn't bother. most 'performance' shops are just trying to make a buck off of lame fast and furious wannabes that don't know the difference between a valve retainer and a rod bearing.
| jet8300 | 11-26-2006 04:50 PM |
You're 17. Customize the RS a bit to your liking, and just wait until you're 25 and you can buy a WRX or an STI. It seems like a long time from now, I know. But It'd be worth it and you'd probably spend alot less money in the end. Not to mention by then you'll be older and wiser, and know how to handle your car better.
| Handsdown | 11-26-2006 05:11 PM |
yeah dude. i got my RS when i was 18, and i'm REALLY glad i have an RS and not a turbo car.
just think all the money you'll save on gas in the next 7 years *if* you follow renegade's advice.
just think all the money you'll save on gas in the next 7 years *if* you follow renegade's advice.
| BigFatGeek | 11-26-2006 05:58 PM |
Seriously, be happy that you are 17 and get to drive such a cool car. This is similar to what I was rockin' back-in-the-day. I would have given my left nut to have 165 HP and AWD. "Mom's car" had all of 92 HP and a three-speed auto. But with classy wire wheels and a vinyl top.
[IMG]http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c47/BigFatGeek/1981_Buick_Skylark.jpg[/IMG]
Put your time and energy into school - it'll pay off in the end...:cool:
[IMG]http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c47/BigFatGeek/1981_Buick_Skylark.jpg[/IMG]
Put your time and energy into school - it'll pay off in the end...:cool:
| dangerousatom | 11-26-2006 06:10 PM |
All things are possible,but not all things are probable
My car started out as a RS.... Its been a long road to where I am today. Some of the best advice that I read in this thread was to start out small and learn as much as possible on the way. If you are planning on making your car into a hobby then stay with it and let it evolve as you get CASH and more of a feeling and know how of what you are doing and how to do it.
IMO: go with the suspension mods 1st..... When your car handles like it is super glued to the road its way fun to drive if its fast or not. In all reality dont bother too much with the motor, like others have said its not worth the money with the gains you will get. Perhaps an intake and better exhaust, but thats pretty much where it stops ( with a NA car ) B4 U start dropping BIG MONEY! Speed and more HP = a better motor and that = more money
Remember no matter what Joe Street Racer or NASIOC Guru says its your car. You should do what you want with it ( after researching it )
[img]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2282000-2282999/2282834_7_full.jpg[/img]
My car started out as a RS.... Its been a long road to where I am today. Some of the best advice that I read in this thread was to start out small and learn as much as possible on the way. If you are planning on making your car into a hobby then stay with it and let it evolve as you get CASH and more of a feeling and know how of what you are doing and how to do it.
IMO: go with the suspension mods 1st..... When your car handles like it is super glued to the road its way fun to drive if its fast or not. In all reality dont bother too much with the motor, like others have said its not worth the money with the gains you will get. Perhaps an intake and better exhaust, but thats pretty much where it stops ( with a NA car ) B4 U start dropping BIG MONEY! Speed and more HP = a better motor and that = more money
Remember no matter what Joe Street Racer or NASIOC Guru says its your car. You should do what you want with it ( after researching it )
[img]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2282000-2282999/2282834_7_full.jpg[/img]
| Handsdown | 11-26-2006 06:20 PM |
what the hell kind of intake is that^^^?
and sure it's his car, but it's obvious that he has months of research at least before he can make an informed decision as to where his time, effort, and money should go.
and sure it's his car, but it's obvious that he has months of research at least before he can make an informed decision as to where his time, effort, and money should go.
| dangerousatom | 11-26-2006 06:26 PM |
thanks for stating again what I just said two times already....researching B4 you do anything
| Handsdown | 11-26-2006 06:28 PM |
yeah it's called reiterating. your statements confirm our advice, and he has a lot to learn so the advice to leave the car alone for now is the better advice.
| renegade_ | 11-26-2006 06:39 PM |
Here is a quick and precise answer
Yes, you can make an RS as fast as an STi.
How?
Swapping the motor - there is absolutely no way you are going to be able to make power comparable to an STi on the EJ251/3 shortblock. The internals were not made for boost and will explode on your ass when you start throwing more than like 8 PSI at it (then again it's all in the tune, I know someone who had a turbo RS for 90k miles at 9 PSI).
Swapping a motor isn't hard, just tedious and time intensive.
Go to [url]www.rs25.com[/url] and look under conversions, there are a ****LOAD of threads which will help you. I have posted many many threads to ask for help on swaps and everyone of the was answered, just search before you post.
Yes, you can make an RS as fast as an STi.
How?
Swapping the motor - there is absolutely no way you are going to be able to make power comparable to an STi on the EJ251/3 shortblock. The internals were not made for boost and will explode on your ass when you start throwing more than like 8 PSI at it (then again it's all in the tune, I know someone who had a turbo RS for 90k miles at 9 PSI).
Swapping a motor isn't hard, just tedious and time intensive.
Go to [url]www.rs25.com[/url] and look under conversions, there are a ****LOAD of threads which will help you. I have posted many many threads to ask for help on swaps and everyone of the was answered, just search before you post.
| Uncle Scotty | 11-26-2006 06:39 PM |
[QUOTE=dangerousatom;16114963]All things are possible,but not all things are probable
My car started out as a RS.... Its been a long road to where I am today. Some of the best advice that I read in this thread was to start out small and learn as much as possible on the way. If you are planning on making your car into a hobby then stay with it and let it evolve as you get CASH and more of a feeling and know how of what you are doing and how to do it.
IMO: go with the suspension mods 1st..... When your car handles like it is super glued to the road its way fun to drive if its fast or not. In all reality dont bother too much with the motor, like others have said its not worth the money with the gains you will get. Perhaps an intake and better exhaust, but thats pretty much where it stops ( with a NA car ) B4 U start dropping BIG MONEY! Speed and more HP = a better motor and that = more money
Remember no matter what Joe Street Racer or NASIOC Guru says its your car. You should do what you want with it ( after researching it )
[img]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2282000-2282999/2282834_7_full.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
It is my opinion that only a total fool would spend so much time, effort and energy 'making' a car like THAT outa an RS unless parts were free and ya had an entire 'shop' at your disposal and you could 'do' all the work youself and/or one of yer buddies could/would.
Looks like ya could bought a house for the coin dropped on that rig---which would have been an investement rather than a loss, in the end.
My car started out as a RS.... Its been a long road to where I am today. Some of the best advice that I read in this thread was to start out small and learn as much as possible on the way. If you are planning on making your car into a hobby then stay with it and let it evolve as you get CASH and more of a feeling and know how of what you are doing and how to do it.
IMO: go with the suspension mods 1st..... When your car handles like it is super glued to the road its way fun to drive if its fast or not. In all reality dont bother too much with the motor, like others have said its not worth the money with the gains you will get. Perhaps an intake and better exhaust, but thats pretty much where it stops ( with a NA car ) B4 U start dropping BIG MONEY! Speed and more HP = a better motor and that = more money
Remember no matter what Joe Street Racer or NASIOC Guru says its your car. You should do what you want with it ( after researching it )
[img]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2282000-2282999/2282834_7_full.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
It is my opinion that only a total fool would spend so much time, effort and energy 'making' a car like THAT outa an RS unless parts were free and ya had an entire 'shop' at your disposal and you could 'do' all the work youself and/or one of yer buddies could/would.
Looks like ya could bought a house for the coin dropped on that rig---which would have been an investement rather than a loss, in the end.
| EnterTheDragon | 11-26-2006 06:43 PM |
By the time you make an STi out of your RS you probably could have purchased two STi's off a lot. Like someone else said, straight line acceleration is good fun, but focus on handling and those backcountry roads will be every bit as fun.
| Impreza01 | 11-26-2006 07:01 PM |
I'll try to do this in an unbiased fashion and not with the Thanksgiving rage that is present in this thread.
2003MY RS to 2004MY STI differences:
- Brembo brake calipers
- brake rotors
- BBS wheels
- faster steering rack
- aluminum Spec C control arms
- lateral arms
- KYB STI struts
- springs
- AP Suretrac front LSD
- DCCD
- Torsen rear LSD
- 6 speed transmission
- spoiler
- lighter glass
- intercooler spray
- intercooler
- IHI VF39 turbo
- piping
- alcantara interior
- dash gauges
- shifter
- Semi-closed 8.2:1 compression EJ257 block
- AVCS heads
Conclusion:
Too much money... You'd probably save more money selling the 2003MY RS, buying a used 2004MY STI and paying the insurance for the STI rather than spending all that moola. I'm sure there are other stuff that I didn't list. In terms of mechanics knowledge, you'll definitely learn much about wrenching. However, you still won't learn anything about how to drive the car correctly (something very crucial at the young age of 17).
As for just turbocharging a block, not a good idea. From a driving skill point (speaking as a person who tracks) I believe young drivers should have underpowered cars with great handling like a Mazda Miata or Toyota MR-Spyder. From a mechanical point, turbocharging a 2.5RS correctly can get expensive as you will definitely needed a turbo, piping, intercooler and an engine management system. Even if you do succeed turbocharging the EJ251 blocks you have, it will definitely not be as reliable as a STI. The EJ251 is an open-deck block that has a high compression for turbocharging. You can run only low boost unless you sleeve or fill the block, very expensive options.
2003MY RS to 2004MY STI differences:
- Brembo brake calipers
- brake rotors
- BBS wheels
- faster steering rack
- aluminum Spec C control arms
- lateral arms
- KYB STI struts
- springs
- AP Suretrac front LSD
- DCCD
- Torsen rear LSD
- 6 speed transmission
- spoiler
- lighter glass
- intercooler spray
- intercooler
- IHI VF39 turbo
- piping
- alcantara interior
- dash gauges
- shifter
- Semi-closed 8.2:1 compression EJ257 block
- AVCS heads
Conclusion:
Too much money... You'd probably save more money selling the 2003MY RS, buying a used 2004MY STI and paying the insurance for the STI rather than spending all that moola. I'm sure there are other stuff that I didn't list. In terms of mechanics knowledge, you'll definitely learn much about wrenching. However, you still won't learn anything about how to drive the car correctly (something very crucial at the young age of 17).
As for just turbocharging a block, not a good idea. From a driving skill point (speaking as a person who tracks) I believe young drivers should have underpowered cars with great handling like a Mazda Miata or Toyota MR-Spyder. From a mechanical point, turbocharging a 2.5RS correctly can get expensive as you will definitely needed a turbo, piping, intercooler and an engine management system. Even if you do succeed turbocharging the EJ251 blocks you have, it will definitely not be as reliable as a STI. The EJ251 is an open-deck block that has a high compression for turbocharging. You can run only low boost unless you sleeve or fill the block, very expensive options.
| renegade_ | 11-26-2006 07:12 PM |
Open deck doesn't really hinder turbo performance to a certain degree. teh Dirt/96Imprezadent/ whatever his name is here on nasioc has an EJ18 that he is throwing 12-14 PSI at and it is holding it no problem. The main concern is the compression ratio and the fact that the internals of the EJ251/3 can't take boost for ****.
Of course when you start throwing higher amounts of boost at a block, how it is decked has an impact, but stock WRX boost can be handled by the stock block... just all the other factors collaborate in order to make it suck ass. Detonate once and say goodbye to your pistons
Of course when you start throwing higher amounts of boost at a block, how it is decked has an impact, but stock WRX boost can be handled by the stock block... just all the other factors collaborate in order to make it suck ass. Detonate once and say goodbye to your pistons
| awdanger | 11-26-2006 07:24 PM |
[quote=Handsdown;16113963]unless it's a nationally renouned shop, i wouldn't bother. most 'performance' shops are just trying to make a buck off of lame fast and furious wannabes that don't know the difference between a valve retainer and a rod bearing.[/quote]
where do you modify your car? in your backyard?
and who said dont bother too much with the power? because its more practical to swap motors than add a few parts and add enough horses to satisfy your needs until youre 24...
theres plenty of performance shops with good reputations, if youre serious about doing anything do your own research and go to a good shop to have it done correctly
where do you modify your car? in your backyard?
and who said dont bother too much with the power? because its more practical to swap motors than add a few parts and add enough horses to satisfy your needs until youre 24...
theres plenty of performance shops with good reputations, if youre serious about doing anything do your own research and go to a good shop to have it done correctly
| Handsdown | 11-26-2006 07:40 PM |
i don't modify my engine, i don't need more power. i modify it in lots or driveways for suspension, because it's relatively easy.
i'm not saying don't bother too much with power i'm saying don't just go to some "performance" shop down the street when all they're going to do is take your money and add loud parts to the car.
i'm not saying don't bother too much with power i'm saying don't just go to some "performance" shop down the street when all they're going to do is take your money and add loud parts to the car.
| awdanger | 11-26-2006 07:42 PM |
very true ive heard so many bad stories...
| renegade_ | 11-26-2006 08:07 PM |
Thats why you should do it yourself - so if you **** it up you can kick yourself in the face for doing so but you know exactly what was done to your car in the first place.
| awdanger | 11-26-2006 11:02 PM |
ok now ive got a question, for those who have done engine conversions
can the handling of an RS or 2.5i hold up to an sti if modified?
can the handling of an RS or 2.5i hold up to an sti if modified?
| wobblywunk | 11-26-2006 11:13 PM |
so im kinda sorta maybe possibly getting the feeling that i shouldn't do any turbo charging to my car? =P
ah well. yea like i siad i was only thinkin bout it and i wanted to konw if it was practical / cost effeicitne, etc so that's y i started this thread.
in response to multiple posts...yes i am VERY appreciative of the car i do have...i LOVE my RS as it is and i wasn't planning on doing anything anytime soon (and probably never now) i was just wondering what i COULD do if i ever decided i wanted to and if it'd be cost efficient or not.
and for the one dude who said that he drove his mom's car or w/e...i drove a beat up 93 mercury villiager up untill now (which actually is a VERY nice car when taken care of) and i love(d) that car too. taht car was bought used...my mom used it for a decade, then my dad used it for construction, and then I inherited it...
but im only saying this to show how much i really do appreciate my RS and it is fast enough for me..like i said i was JUST WONDERING ...so stop getting so pissed off at me.
anyway..thanks for all the advice now i have a better idea of what's goin on
--wobblywunk
ah well. yea like i siad i was only thinkin bout it and i wanted to konw if it was practical / cost effeicitne, etc so that's y i started this thread.
in response to multiple posts...yes i am VERY appreciative of the car i do have...i LOVE my RS as it is and i wasn't planning on doing anything anytime soon (and probably never now) i was just wondering what i COULD do if i ever decided i wanted to and if it'd be cost efficient or not.
and for the one dude who said that he drove his mom's car or w/e...i drove a beat up 93 mercury villiager up untill now (which actually is a VERY nice car when taken care of) and i love(d) that car too. taht car was bought used...my mom used it for a decade, then my dad used it for construction, and then I inherited it...
but im only saying this to show how much i really do appreciate my RS and it is fast enough for me..like i said i was JUST WONDERING ...so stop getting so pissed off at me.
anyway..thanks for all the advice now i have a better idea of what's goin on
--wobblywunk
| Impreza01 | 11-26-2006 11:26 PM |
[QUOTE=awdanger;16117704]ok now ive got a question, for those who have done engine conversions
can the handling of an RS or 2.5i hold up to an sti if modified?[/QUOTE]
Yes. You'll need better struts and springs to handle the cars body roll for sweepers (achieve higher cornering speed) and transitional turns (maintain cornering speed). You'll need lighter suspension pieces for better suspension movements (aka make it more reactive to your inputs). You'll need LSDs for better corner exit acceleration. Your car is already lighter, so there are no worries there.
can the handling of an RS or 2.5i hold up to an sti if modified?[/QUOTE]
Yes. You'll need better struts and springs to handle the cars body roll for sweepers (achieve higher cornering speed) and transitional turns (maintain cornering speed). You'll need lighter suspension pieces for better suspension movements (aka make it more reactive to your inputs). You'll need LSDs for better corner exit acceleration. Your car is already lighter, so there are no worries there.
| awdanger | 11-27-2006 12:18 AM |
wow, thats pretty awsome at least that way if someone was actually considering swapping engine and drivetrain they wouldnt have to worry about the handling dept.
i guess being cost effective depends on what youve already done then
if youve already upgraded brakes and suspension it might be a good idea to swap drive trains and be done with it...
i guess being cost effective depends on what youve already done then
if youve already upgraded brakes and suspension it might be a good idea to swap drive trains and be done with it...
| Handsdown | 11-27-2006 12:26 AM |
umm...
the sti already has better suspension, you'd have to upgrade the entire suspension of an RS or 2.5i, so you definitely do have to worry about the handling dept.
if you have spent less than 3k on brakes and drivetrain, the swap is not the easier option.
the sti already has better suspension, you'd have to upgrade the entire suspension of an RS or 2.5i, so you definitely do have to worry about the handling dept.
if you have spent less than 3k on brakes and drivetrain, the swap is not the easier option.
| awdanger | 11-27-2006 12:41 AM |
thats what i meant, if the drivetrain isnt nearly comparable at least the other aspects are if modified...
its obvious an rs cant handle with an sti stock...DUH!
its obvious an rs cant handle with an sti stock...DUH!
| renegade_ | 11-27-2006 06:57 PM |
Im swapping in an STi motor in the future but as of now my suspension is stock. The 3-4 months post the swap I will drive the car normally, safely, and not gun it while I save up for jdm 4 pots. If you aren't a maniac, the stock **** is fine as long as you dont decide to do WOT pulls through back roads.
| Lexington | 11-27-2006 08:00 PM |
[SIZE="7"][COLOR="Red"]CROSS POSTING SUCKS!!
POSTING THIS IN THE WRONG FORUM SUCKS!![/COLOR][/SIZE]
you suck too
POSTING THIS IN THE WRONG FORUM SUCKS!![/COLOR][/SIZE]
you suck too
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