| johnfelstead | 01-01-2002 05:42 PM |
Subaru and 555 to partner up in 2002 WRC
Expect an anouncement just prior to Monte Carlo that 555 will be sponsoring the works Subaru's again. There are contradicting reports that nothing will happen for 3 months but it makes more sense to do it from Monte Carlo for maximum exposure.
This is all part of the package put in place with David Richards taking control at BAR in F1.
Prodrive are going to buy out BAT from BAR over the next few years so that by 2006 Prodrive will be the #1 shareholder in BAR and BAT will be gone.
2006 is when tobacco advertising in F1 will be banned. Part of this deal is the supporting of the WRC team.
This should help Subaru big time as they are the least funded team of the big players right now. This may allow a 3rd top driver to be chosen on merit rather than budget.
It also looks likely Subaru are going to push hard for the GroupN title after years of mitsubishi domination. David Higgins GroupN win on Rally GB has caused a rethink inside Subaru and they are now going to use Toshi Arai, Simon Jean-Joseph and Hamed Al Wahaibi in properly suported Prodrive run GroupN cars to attack the tittle. Why they dont have David Higgins drive a car is beyond me, he has excelled in the GroupN Impreza for years now.
This is all part of the package put in place with David Richards taking control at BAR in F1.
Prodrive are going to buy out BAT from BAR over the next few years so that by 2006 Prodrive will be the #1 shareholder in BAR and BAT will be gone.
2006 is when tobacco advertising in F1 will be banned. Part of this deal is the supporting of the WRC team.
This should help Subaru big time as they are the least funded team of the big players right now. This may allow a 3rd top driver to be chosen on merit rather than budget.
It also looks likely Subaru are going to push hard for the GroupN title after years of mitsubishi domination. David Higgins GroupN win on Rally GB has caused a rethink inside Subaru and they are now going to use Toshi Arai, Simon Jean-Joseph and Hamed Al Wahaibi in properly suported Prodrive run GroupN cars to attack the tittle. Why they dont have David Higgins drive a car is beyond me, he has excelled in the GroupN Impreza for years now.
| cj917 | 01-01-2002 06:39 PM |
heh, so after BAT is completely out, what's BAR (the name) gonna become? ;)
-arthur
-arthur
| Scoobie Newbie | 01-01-2002 08:06 PM |
John do work for FHI or 555? Exellent info. (If it pans out);)
| JamesC | 01-01-2002 10:31 PM |
Indeed,
I recieved the following via email over the weekend.
In part:
"Higgins joins AV Sport for 2002 SCCA Pro Rally Championship!
Rally of Great Britain Group N winner, David Higgins will compete for the 2002 SCCA Pro Rally Championship in the USA driving an AV Sport prepared Subaru WRX.."
Some interesting news all 'round.
JamesC
I recieved the following via email over the weekend.
In part:
"Higgins joins AV Sport for 2002 SCCA Pro Rally Championship!
Rally of Great Britain Group N winner, David Higgins will compete for the 2002 SCCA Pro Rally Championship in the USA driving an AV Sport prepared Subaru WRX.."
Some interesting news all 'round.
JamesC
| ANZAC_1915 | 01-01-2002 10:48 PM |
Tobacco companies!
:monkey:
:monkey:
| ColinL | 01-01-2002 11:16 PM |
bah. teams wearing various cigarette colors have meant so much to me for rally, F1 and FIM racing but I've never bought any.
I've appreciated the racing funded in part by money they've poured in though.
I've appreciated the racing funded in part by money they've poured in though.
| Lightning Jack | 01-02-2002 12:02 AM |
newbie question: what is 555?
| Scoobie Newbie | 01-02-2002 12:04 AM |
They are a tobacco company that funded Subaru in the past.
| AngelT | 01-02-2002 12:05 AM |
ColinL, All,
I should try to be careful to respond here in a way that does not verge on taking this off-topic (well, the original post *is* about a tobacco company...) or that could be perceived as personal, but I consistently feel a need to respond on this subject (yeah, I think it's important, I've been following the story, and, yeah, I take it personally myself).
You said:
[QUOTE] bah. teams wearing various cigarette colors have meant so much to me for rally, F1 and FIM racing but I've never bought any.
[/QUOTE]
What I often see not just on I-club but on some other BBSes (esp. motorsports) is a real disconnect on tobacco ("Well, I watch rally/F1 but I never started smoking, so advertising must not work") or ("Well, yeah, tobacco sucks but they really pump in money, so I don't think they're all bad"). I'm not 100% sure, but I think these are examples of what social scientists call cognitive dissonance (This thing "A" doesn't look so good, but it gets me this other thing "B" that I really dig, so I conclude that "A" must not be so bad after all.)
Bottom line, though, for anybody who takes a cold, hard look at the history of tobacco and tobacco companies is that it has always been a negative value proposition -- the word "evil" fairly applies. Yeah, some choice enters into tobacco comsumption, but for impressionable 13 year-olds who wind up solidly addicted by age 15 (with many suffering the consequences as early as their 20s and 30s), there ain't much choice in it. It's true that many folks are exposed to advertising but don't start smoking. Does that mean that tobacco advertising is not effective overall? Unfortunately, no. Why do PM/BAT spend kazillions on it? It works.
Subaru and 555? IMO? This is disappointing news. When it seemed motorsports and Subaru might be moving forward, Subaru is taking a weak, opportunistic step backwards. Not in keeping with that outdoorsy "Outback" image, is it? When it comes to this issue, 2006 can't come soon enough. I can even imagine, though, that Philip Morris and BAT are doing all they can behind the scenes to reverse FIA's decision (though I don't know enough about the particulars to know if that is a realistic concern).
Well, if this bears out, come January (Yikes, it IS January!), I think I just may have to root for a partular fully factory-sponsored team (with the sexiest silver car on the planet!) or some other outfit with a nice color scheme sponsored by a relatively benign vermouth company.
Oh, like that other gent said:
Tobacco companies!
:monkey:
AT
I should try to be careful to respond here in a way that does not verge on taking this off-topic (well, the original post *is* about a tobacco company...) or that could be perceived as personal, but I consistently feel a need to respond on this subject (yeah, I think it's important, I've been following the story, and, yeah, I take it personally myself).
You said:
[QUOTE] bah. teams wearing various cigarette colors have meant so much to me for rally, F1 and FIM racing but I've never bought any.
[/QUOTE]
What I often see not just on I-club but on some other BBSes (esp. motorsports) is a real disconnect on tobacco ("Well, I watch rally/F1 but I never started smoking, so advertising must not work") or ("Well, yeah, tobacco sucks but they really pump in money, so I don't think they're all bad"). I'm not 100% sure, but I think these are examples of what social scientists call cognitive dissonance (This thing "A" doesn't look so good, but it gets me this other thing "B" that I really dig, so I conclude that "A" must not be so bad after all.)
Bottom line, though, for anybody who takes a cold, hard look at the history of tobacco and tobacco companies is that it has always been a negative value proposition -- the word "evil" fairly applies. Yeah, some choice enters into tobacco comsumption, but for impressionable 13 year-olds who wind up solidly addicted by age 15 (with many suffering the consequences as early as their 20s and 30s), there ain't much choice in it. It's true that many folks are exposed to advertising but don't start smoking. Does that mean that tobacco advertising is not effective overall? Unfortunately, no. Why do PM/BAT spend kazillions on it? It works.
Subaru and 555? IMO? This is disappointing news. When it seemed motorsports and Subaru might be moving forward, Subaru is taking a weak, opportunistic step backwards. Not in keeping with that outdoorsy "Outback" image, is it? When it comes to this issue, 2006 can't come soon enough. I can even imagine, though, that Philip Morris and BAT are doing all they can behind the scenes to reverse FIA's decision (though I don't know enough about the particulars to know if that is a realistic concern).
Well, if this bears out, come January (Yikes, it IS January!), I think I just may have to root for a partular fully factory-sponsored team (with the sexiest silver car on the planet!) or some other outfit with a nice color scheme sponsored by a relatively benign vermouth company.
Oh, like that other gent said:
Tobacco companies!
:monkey:
AT
| Axiochus | 01-02-2002 12:41 AM |
Why would Higgins want to screw around in that little toy-car WRC thing when he could be over here playing in "real" Pro-Rally?
Excuse my ignorance, but isn't Hamed Al Wahaibi one of those "All Star" buy-a-ride guys? Is he really a threat to do anything in GrN?
Matt.
Excuse my ignorance, but isn't Hamed Al Wahaibi one of those "All Star" buy-a-ride guys? Is he really a threat to do anything in GrN?
Matt.
| Shik | 01-02-2002 06:05 AM |
Subaru partnering with 555 again...I'm so happy I could cry :) Thanks for the wonderful news.
| johnfelstead | 01-02-2002 08:17 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Scoobie Newbie [/i]
[B]John do work for FHI or 555? [/B][/QUOTE]
No and No. :D
[B]John do work for FHI or 555? [/B][/QUOTE]
No and No. :D
| johnfelstead | 01-02-2002 08:20 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Axiochus [/i]
[B]Why would Higgins want to screw around in that little toy-car WRC thing when he could be over here playing in "real" Pro-Rally?
Excuse my ignorance, but isn't Hamed Al Wahaibi one of those "All Star" buy-a-ride guys? Is he really a threat to do anything in GrN?
Matt. [/B][/QUOTE]
on the Higgins question, i havent a clue what you mean? :confused:
Hamed is as much a threat as any other GroupN driver bar a couple out there.
[B]Why would Higgins want to screw around in that little toy-car WRC thing when he could be over here playing in "real" Pro-Rally?
Excuse my ignorance, but isn't Hamed Al Wahaibi one of those "All Star" buy-a-ride guys? Is he really a threat to do anything in GrN?
Matt. [/B][/QUOTE]
on the Higgins question, i havent a clue what you mean? :confused:
Hamed is as much a threat as any other GroupN driver bar a couple out there.
| Thug | 01-02-2002 09:28 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Axiochus [/i]
[B]Why would Higgins want to screw around in that little toy-car WRC thing when he could be over here playing in "real" Pro-Rally?
Matt. [/B][/QUOTE]
Is this sarcasm or are you smoking some serious $hite?
[B]Why would Higgins want to screw around in that little toy-car WRC thing when he could be over here playing in "real" Pro-Rally?
Matt. [/B][/QUOTE]
Is this sarcasm or are you smoking some serious $hite?
| JGard | 01-02-2002 10:10 AM |
AngelT: well said.
tobacco co. :monkey:
Sure, it will do good things for Subaru's WRC efforts, but it really is sad to see them go that way for money...
tobacco co. :monkey:
Sure, it will do good things for Subaru's WRC efforts, but it really is sad to see them go that way for money...
| LordBass | 01-02-2002 10:25 AM |
True JGard, but I'd rather see dark blue 555 livery any day over some nappy Tide/Skoal/Interstate Batteries/Viagra NASCAR billboard-style advertising.
lb
[url]www.trancelab.com[/url]
lb
[url]www.trancelab.com[/url]
| bill harvey | 01-02-2002 12:10 PM |
yes its soo sad to have an evil tobacco company write the big check...... :rolleyes:
perhaps "milk" will sponsor us can we even agree that milk is ok? or maybe "corn " corn is good right?
perhaps "milk" will sponsor us can we even agree that milk is ok? or maybe "corn " corn is good right?
| sjt | 01-02-2002 12:54 PM |
how about the [FONT=courier new] [COLOR=blue] [SIZE=8]GAP[/COLOR] [/FONT][/SIZE] ... :lol:
| FUBAR | 01-02-2002 01:30 PM |
corn is good, but not the bio enginneered corn.
| Skyline | 01-02-2002 02:23 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by bill harvey [/i]
[B]yes its soo sad to have an evil tobacco company write the big check...... :rolleyes:
perhaps "milk" will sponsor us can we even agree that milk is ok? or maybe "corn " corn is good right? [/B][/QUOTE]
Uhhh... didn't you hear about the controversial "Got Beer?" ad campaign by PETA? Apparently, milk is not good for you because of hormones injected into cows. :rolleyes: So, PETA, in its infinite wisdom, ran an ad campaign across college campuses advising students to drink beer rather than milk. Needless to say, MADD got POd and PETA pulled the ads. :lol:
See some stuff here:
[url]http://www.animalliberationfront.com/Saints/LindaGenteel/Dec2001/White%20Poison--The%20Horrors%20of%20Milk.html[/url]
And corn? Well, corn alcohol was lauded as the new fuel for automobiles for years. Except for one thing. It turns out the process to generate alcohol from corn requires more energy to be used than is produced. And what form of energy is used in this process? Petroleum, of course. :rolleyes:
Anything and everything can be protested. Some validly, some not. The moral is: you have to decide for yourself what matters to you, not what someone else says should matter to you.
/mel :D
Edit: It was PETA, not ALF.
[B]yes its soo sad to have an evil tobacco company write the big check...... :rolleyes:
perhaps "milk" will sponsor us can we even agree that milk is ok? or maybe "corn " corn is good right? [/B][/QUOTE]
Uhhh... didn't you hear about the controversial "Got Beer?" ad campaign by PETA? Apparently, milk is not good for you because of hormones injected into cows. :rolleyes: So, PETA, in its infinite wisdom, ran an ad campaign across college campuses advising students to drink beer rather than milk. Needless to say, MADD got POd and PETA pulled the ads. :lol:
See some stuff here:
[url]http://www.animalliberationfront.com/Saints/LindaGenteel/Dec2001/White%20Poison--The%20Horrors%20of%20Milk.html[/url]
And corn? Well, corn alcohol was lauded as the new fuel for automobiles for years. Except for one thing. It turns out the process to generate alcohol from corn requires more energy to be used than is produced. And what form of energy is used in this process? Petroleum, of course. :rolleyes:
Anything and everything can be protested. Some validly, some not. The moral is: you have to decide for yourself what matters to you, not what someone else says should matter to you.
/mel :D
Edit: It was PETA, not ALF.
| cj917 | 01-02-2002 02:56 PM |
i agree that although it may seemed that tobacco advertising doesn't do much since it hasn't turned us all into smokers, it must have worked well or otherwise those big tobacco giants wouldn't be pumping money into motorsports programs
[quote]
Prodrive are going to buy out BAT from BAR over the next few years so that by 2006 Prodrive will be the #1 shareholder in BAR and BAT will be gone.
[/quote]
(now slightly OT) so what's gonna happen with Honda's involvement with BAR? i know Honda has just extended their partnership with BAR for another 3 yrs, and that will end before the 2006 tobacco ban, but rumor has it that Honda was looking into buying a F1 team and BAR looked to be the candidate because all the infrastructure are already in place... and they've helped out BAR with its car design more and more every year
but Prodrive had been teaming up with Subaru for quite a while... although Subaru does rally and Honda does F1... anybody has some insight to this?
-arthur
[quote]
Prodrive are going to buy out BAT from BAR over the next few years so that by 2006 Prodrive will be the #1 shareholder in BAR and BAT will be gone.
[/quote]
(now slightly OT) so what's gonna happen with Honda's involvement with BAR? i know Honda has just extended their partnership with BAR for another 3 yrs, and that will end before the 2006 tobacco ban, but rumor has it that Honda was looking into buying a F1 team and BAR looked to be the candidate because all the infrastructure are already in place... and they've helped out BAR with its car design more and more every year
but Prodrive had been teaming up with Subaru for quite a while... although Subaru does rally and Honda does F1... anybody has some insight to this?
-arthur
| ColinL | 01-02-2002 03:12 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cj917 [/i]
i agree that although it may seemed that tobacco advertising doesn't do much since it hasn't turned us all into smokers, it must have worked well or otherwise those big tobacco giants wouldn't be pumping money into motorsports programs[/quote]
i wouldn't make any assumptions about how effective the marketing is or isn't. what the tobacco money really means is that they have no place left to advertise. they can't put their ads on tv, in print, etc. so they use cars and bikes.
i personally feel it's really OT for this forum, but angelT's rant about big tobacco absolves too much responsibility from the smokers themselves. it's been widely known that smoking is 'bad for you' in whatever capacity you choose to say it for quite some time now... if people consume a product, there will be a market for it. unless the government wants to make tobacco illegal, there's nothing more that can be done about it then what is being done now, with many active campaigns preaching the horrors of it.
anyway my point of it all is that smoker has more than a little responsibility for their own actions reguardless of chemical addition, social pressures or even advertising. i don't smoke but i enjoy motorsports and am glad someone is footing the bill to make it happen, and i don't give a rip if it's tobacco, energy drinks, hard liquor, or laundry detergent.
i agree that although it may seemed that tobacco advertising doesn't do much since it hasn't turned us all into smokers, it must have worked well or otherwise those big tobacco giants wouldn't be pumping money into motorsports programs[/quote]
i wouldn't make any assumptions about how effective the marketing is or isn't. what the tobacco money really means is that they have no place left to advertise. they can't put their ads on tv, in print, etc. so they use cars and bikes.
i personally feel it's really OT for this forum, but angelT's rant about big tobacco absolves too much responsibility from the smokers themselves. it's been widely known that smoking is 'bad for you' in whatever capacity you choose to say it for quite some time now... if people consume a product, there will be a market for it. unless the government wants to make tobacco illegal, there's nothing more that can be done about it then what is being done now, with many active campaigns preaching the horrors of it.
anyway my point of it all is that smoker has more than a little responsibility for their own actions reguardless of chemical addition, social pressures or even advertising. i don't smoke but i enjoy motorsports and am glad someone is footing the bill to make it happen, and i don't give a rip if it's tobacco, energy drinks, hard liquor, or laundry detergent.
| wrx182 | 01-02-2002 03:26 PM |
sounds good to me;)
| In2Deep | 01-02-2002 03:53 PM |
Tobacco companies will be around and selling their products regardless of how much we morally appose it. They will do what they can to advertise their products in whatever capacities they are allowed/permitted to get away with.
I'm 30, don't smoke, never have, never will. 90% of my friends do, as did my parents back in the day. My point is that I've been around tobacco advertising for 30 years and have not fallen to the [i]"dark-side"[/i]
I'm glad Subaru picked up another deep pocketed sponsor.
I'm 30, don't smoke, never have, never will. 90% of my friends do, as did my parents back in the day. My point is that I've been around tobacco advertising for 30 years and have not fallen to the [i]"dark-side"[/i]
I'm glad Subaru picked up another deep pocketed sponsor.
| Scoobie Newbie | 01-02-2002 04:06 PM |
I know that 555 sponsered them in years gone by, but what happened to have them lose Subaru. Or is it vice versa.
| cj917 | 01-02-2002 04:17 PM |
[quote]
i wouldn't make any assumptions about how effective the marketing is or isn't. what the tobacco money really means is that they have no place left to advertise. they can't put their ads on tv, in print, etc. so they use cars and bikes.
[/quote]
while that could very well be true, i still doubt that they (or anyone whose #1 goal is to make money) will just throw $$$ away like that... and we are not talking about pocket changes either
but then again, you never know :rolleyes:
[quote]
i enjoy motorsports and am glad someone is footing the bill to make it happen
[/quote]
same here :)
so the tobacco ban is only for Formula 1, or across the FIA? if it's the former, does that mean we'll see more and more tobacco sponsorship slowly migrating to WRC and eventually all over the cars? or is it some sort of deal similar to F1 in the work since WRC is gaining popularity?
-arthur
i wouldn't make any assumptions about how effective the marketing is or isn't. what the tobacco money really means is that they have no place left to advertise. they can't put their ads on tv, in print, etc. so they use cars and bikes.
[/quote]
while that could very well be true, i still doubt that they (or anyone whose #1 goal is to make money) will just throw $$$ away like that... and we are not talking about pocket changes either
but then again, you never know :rolleyes:
[quote]
i enjoy motorsports and am glad someone is footing the bill to make it happen
[/quote]
same here :)
so the tobacco ban is only for Formula 1, or across the FIA? if it's the former, does that mean we'll see more and more tobacco sponsorship slowly migrating to WRC and eventually all over the cars? or is it some sort of deal similar to F1 in the work since WRC is gaining popularity?
-arthur
| Skyline | 01-02-2002 04:27 PM |
All FIA international motor sport:
[url]http://www.fia.com/presse/dcm-a/05-10-00.htm[/url]
/mel
[url]http://www.fia.com/presse/dcm-a/05-10-00.htm[/url]
/mel
| johnfelstead | 01-02-2002 04:42 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Scoobie Newbie [/i]
[B]I know that 555 sponsered them in years gone by, but what happened to have them lose Subaru. Or is it vice versa. [/B][/QUOTE]
They decided to spend their Millions in F1 by funding BAR. Originally the BAR cars were to be liveried diferently, one car as Lucky Strike the other as 555.
Unfortunately (for BAT) the FIA insisted that both cars ran the same livery so we had a season of the BAR's looking like a piece of crap with one side 555 and the other side Lucky Strike. BAT thought they could force their interests on the FIA. They were wrong!
There is a fun quote that is suposed to be true in the middle of all this. Some top exec at BAT is suposed to have said to Bernie Ecclestone and Max Mosley "we take on goverments, dont mess with us"
Bernie is supposed to have replied "So do we, but we win" :lol::D
[IMG]http://www.britishamericanracing.com/media/imagelibrary/370_2.jpg[/IMG]
[B]I know that 555 sponsered them in years gone by, but what happened to have them lose Subaru. Or is it vice versa. [/B][/QUOTE]
They decided to spend their Millions in F1 by funding BAR. Originally the BAR cars were to be liveried diferently, one car as Lucky Strike the other as 555.
Unfortunately (for BAT) the FIA insisted that both cars ran the same livery so we had a season of the BAR's looking like a piece of crap with one side 555 and the other side Lucky Strike. BAT thought they could force their interests on the FIA. They were wrong!
There is a fun quote that is suposed to be true in the middle of all this. Some top exec at BAT is suposed to have said to Bernie Ecclestone and Max Mosley "we take on goverments, dont mess with us"
Bernie is supposed to have replied "So do we, but we win" :lol::D
[IMG]http://www.britishamericanracing.com/media/imagelibrary/370_2.jpg[/IMG]
| cj917 | 01-02-2002 05:21 PM |
^
|
|
yes that has to be the ugliest livery ever... couldn't you how POd JV was thru the visor? :p nevermind the car always broke down
|
|
yes that has to be the ugliest livery ever... couldn't you how POd JV was thru the visor? :p nevermind the car always broke down
| Clement | 01-02-2002 07:46 PM |
Great news! Subaru may finally have a chance to regain the manufacturer's title :)
And I don't see why some of you guys get so upset with tobacco companies pumping money into advertisments. It [i]IS[/i] just another advertisment. :rolleyes: Anyone who starts smoking just because their favourite car has a tobacco company as their sponsor is an idiot to begin with.
Education is the key. Educate the young about the hazards of smoking, and let the tobacco companies [i][b]waste[/b][/i] their money in advertisment and sponsoring sports.
And I don't see why some of you guys get so upset with tobacco companies pumping money into advertisments. It [i]IS[/i] just another advertisment. :rolleyes: Anyone who starts smoking just because their favourite car has a tobacco company as their sponsor is an idiot to begin with.
Education is the key. Educate the young about the hazards of smoking, and let the tobacco companies [i][b]waste[/b][/i] their money in advertisment and sponsoring sports.
| Lifino | 01-02-2002 09:45 PM |
So are there any pictures of what will be on the rally this year? What's the new 555 car going to look like?
-Silas
-Silas
| Scoobie Newbie | 01-02-2002 10:00 PM |
I know this is very minor, but the car is still going to be blue right?
| In2Deep | 01-02-2002 11:44 PM |
Car colors are generally changed according to sponsors requirements. Since there isn't going to ba any major changes this year, and rumors of 555 coming aboard, why would it change? Most likely it won't change.
| johnfelstead | 01-03-2002 05:31 PM |
Where do you think Subaru Rally Blue comes from?
It's the colours of 555. Prior to 555 sponsoring the works cars they were blue/white and gold, the colours of rothmans.
When 555 pulled out the branding colour had become so popular that the FHI management decided not to change to any other colour, even if that meant losing a potential sponsor. This is one reason why Subaru hasnt had a tittle sponsor for years.
It's the colours of 555. Prior to 555 sponsoring the works cars they were blue/white and gold, the colours of rothmans.
When 555 pulled out the branding colour had become so popular that the FHI management decided not to change to any other colour, even if that meant losing a potential sponsor. This is one reason why Subaru hasnt had a tittle sponsor for years.
| Lifino | 01-03-2002 07:33 PM |
Though I'm just a newbie to Rally, I do understand that 555 is where Subaru got the blue, and that the color worked so well and defined the Impreza and what it was that Subaru had no choice but to keep it... But after 555 left they changed the graphics from the abstract 555 logo to the flying stars...
The reason I ask is I've seen the 555 and abstract 555 logos on the GC8, but I'm wondering when they are going to release photos of the car with the new sponsorship?
For example:
555 GC8:
[IMG]http://www.worldrally.net/97/catsuba.jpg[/IMG]
Abstract 555 GC8:
[IMG]http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/sasaki/mycar_diary/fig/Impreza/back_view.jpg[/IMG]
Subaru GC8: (sorry if this one is too big)
[IMG]http://www.northursalia.com/gallery/000083ad.jpg[/IMG]
Personaly I don't care if it is a tobacco company. I'm just pleased to have such a large sponsor. Tobacco kills people, it ruins lives, and the companies selling it make a huge profit off of it. They are not going to stop finding new customers, whether they advertise or not. Banning advertising is just hiding the problem(out of sight out of mind) The only fix is closing the companies, which in our society we can't do. People are going to smoke, and there will always be manufacturers around to make a profit off of it. I'm an ex-smoker, pack a day Marlboro Reds, I realy had my fingers crossed that Tommi would bring my brand with him.
Later
-SIlas
The reason I ask is I've seen the 555 and abstract 555 logos on the GC8, but I'm wondering when they are going to release photos of the car with the new sponsorship?
For example:
555 GC8:
[IMG]http://www.worldrally.net/97/catsuba.jpg[/IMG]
Abstract 555 GC8:
[IMG]http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/sasaki/mycar_diary/fig/Impreza/back_view.jpg[/IMG]
Subaru GC8: (sorry if this one is too big)
[IMG]http://www.northursalia.com/gallery/000083ad.jpg[/IMG]
Personaly I don't care if it is a tobacco company. I'm just pleased to have such a large sponsor. Tobacco kills people, it ruins lives, and the companies selling it make a huge profit off of it. They are not going to stop finding new customers, whether they advertise or not. Banning advertising is just hiding the problem(out of sight out of mind) The only fix is closing the companies, which in our society we can't do. People are going to smoke, and there will always be manufacturers around to make a profit off of it. I'm an ex-smoker, pack a day Marlboro Reds, I realy had my fingers crossed that Tommi would bring my brand with him.
Later
-SIlas
| johnfelstead | 01-03-2002 08:14 PM |
Well for a start, people are forgetting this is not oficial yet. This is a JF scoop. :lol: so you arent going to see any mockups until it's anounced. I believe that will be on the night prior to the Monte Carlo but it may not happen for a few months.
| Lifino | 01-03-2002 09:23 PM |
The JF Scoop? hehe, I like that!
Are you saying we can't trust you John? Should we take your news with a grain of salt? Perhaps we can get Nick to change the Rumors section to the Felstead Updates!!
Hehe, j/k, nothing personal...
-Silas, not getting my hopes up about a 555 WRC WRX
Are you saying we can't trust you John? Should we take your news with a grain of salt? Perhaps we can get Nick to change the Rumors section to the Felstead Updates!!
Hehe, j/k, nothing personal...
-Silas, not getting my hopes up about a 555 WRC WRX
| In2Deep | 01-03-2002 09:45 PM |
OMG, has anyone seen [url="http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131411"][b]THIS[/b][/url] yet? :eek:
| z3coupe | 01-04-2002 12:46 AM |
You know, when the anti-smoke nazis win the day and turn the world into a non-smoking place - you REALLY think they'll stop there? Its just like the IRA will never let there be peace in Ireland! They are so full of themselves and the power & prestige (some even legends!) that they weild - that when the dust is over they sure as hell won't want to go back to a normal unimportant life! So what will be next, huh fellas? Something maybe that YOU like? Beer, Guiness, MSG, I even heard COFFEE was on a hit list! Won't that make all the Starbuck yuppies mad.
So maybe smoking is bad, for some people, true, but its still a freedom to choose if you want to or not. But once that is gone, its much easier to go on to the next hate campaign. Of course, you'll sit there and just say . . . IT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE. Yeah right . . . .
So maybe smoking is bad, for some people, true, but its still a freedom to choose if you want to or not. But once that is gone, its much easier to go on to the next hate campaign. Of course, you'll sit there and just say . . . IT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE. Yeah right . . . .
| johnfelstead | 01-04-2002 10:19 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lifino [/i]
[B]The JF Scoop? hehe, I like that!
Are you saying we can't trust you John? Should we take your news with a grain of salt? Perhaps we can get Nick to change the Rumors section to the Felstead Updates!!
Hehe, j/k, nothing personal...
-Silas, not getting my hopes up about a 555 WRC WRX [/B][/QUOTE]
I try and get my info right but who knows, it could be way off base. :lol::D
I hope it does happen in Monaco cos i am gonna be there. :D
[B]The JF Scoop? hehe, I like that!
Are you saying we can't trust you John? Should we take your news with a grain of salt? Perhaps we can get Nick to change the Rumors section to the Felstead Updates!!
Hehe, j/k, nothing personal...
-Silas, not getting my hopes up about a 555 WRC WRX [/B][/QUOTE]
I try and get my info right but who knows, it could be way off base. :lol::D
I hope it does happen in Monaco cos i am gonna be there. :D
| Evan J. Kelly | 01-04-2002 11:45 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Glenn Wallace [/i]
[B]Tobacco companies!
:monkey: [/B][/QUOTE]
I went to a highschool funded from RJR tobacco... we got anything the students asked for...
We asked for PC's instead of mac's for our class, and soon enough there was a room full of brand new DELLs, the best ones out too.
This was a few years ago, supposedly they just revamped all their macs with thew DVD burning one's... like 50.
Idiots who kill themselves paid for my schoolin'. I can say this after 6 years of 2 packs a day. Haven't touched a cig in 3 months, cold turkey. Just wanted to stop.
[B]Tobacco companies!
:monkey: [/B][/QUOTE]
I went to a highschool funded from RJR tobacco... we got anything the students asked for...
We asked for PC's instead of mac's for our class, and soon enough there was a room full of brand new DELLs, the best ones out too.
This was a few years ago, supposedly they just revamped all their macs with thew DVD burning one's... like 50.
Idiots who kill themselves paid for my schoolin'. I can say this after 6 years of 2 packs a day. Haven't touched a cig in 3 months, cold turkey. Just wanted to stop.
| Dr. WOT | 01-05-2002 12:19 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cj917 [/i]
[B](now slightly OT) so what's gonna happen with Honda's involvement with BAR? i know Honda has just extended their partnership with BAR for another 3 yrs, and that will end before the 2006 tobacco ban, but rumor has it that Honda was looking into buying a F1 team and BAR looked to be the candidate because all the infrastructure are already in place... and they've helped out BAR with its car design more and more every year
but Prodrive had been teaming up with Subaru for quite a while... although Subaru does rally and Honda does F1... anybody has some insight to this?
-arthur [/B][/QUOTE]
Precisely what I was going to point that out. I'd like to know the source of this info because it might make sense in the WRC context, but sounds like a disaster from the F1 position.
The part that I find questionable is that BAT would sell the F1 team to Prodrive because they knew about the ban back in '98 when they bought Tyrrell. The whole idea was that ownership of the team would allow BAT to circumvent the ban to some extent (while they couldn't run tobacco livery, the team would still be named after the cigarette company which would still get them exposure).
That would be a tremendous waste of money to bail out after only a few miserable seasons. Furthermore Richards is the manager of BAR... why would they sell the company to an employee who has been there for less than a month and has proven nothing.
Finally I doubt that DR/Prodrive/ISC could outbid Honda who is clearly interested in becoming a F1 constructor.
[B](now slightly OT) so what's gonna happen with Honda's involvement with BAR? i know Honda has just extended their partnership with BAR for another 3 yrs, and that will end before the 2006 tobacco ban, but rumor has it that Honda was looking into buying a F1 team and BAR looked to be the candidate because all the infrastructure are already in place... and they've helped out BAR with its car design more and more every year
but Prodrive had been teaming up with Subaru for quite a while... although Subaru does rally and Honda does F1... anybody has some insight to this?
-arthur [/B][/QUOTE]
Precisely what I was going to point that out. I'd like to know the source of this info because it might make sense in the WRC context, but sounds like a disaster from the F1 position.
The part that I find questionable is that BAT would sell the F1 team to Prodrive because they knew about the ban back in '98 when they bought Tyrrell. The whole idea was that ownership of the team would allow BAT to circumvent the ban to some extent (while they couldn't run tobacco livery, the team would still be named after the cigarette company which would still get them exposure).
That would be a tremendous waste of money to bail out after only a few miserable seasons. Furthermore Richards is the manager of BAR... why would they sell the company to an employee who has been there for less than a month and has proven nothing.
Finally I doubt that DR/Prodrive/ISC could outbid Honda who is clearly interested in becoming a F1 constructor.
| johnfelstead | 01-05-2002 01:24 PM |
You think Dave Richards is just an Employee? :lol: Too Funny!
Dave has been in negotiation with BAR for 6 months, nothing was made public for comercial reasons. Villeneuve didnt know about anything until the day before it was anounced. He is testing the new BAR on monday, if he isnt happy he is going to walk because he is unhappy with how his best mate, craig pollock, has been treated. The main shareholders in BAR are curently Pollock (still), Villeneuve, BAT and Reynard. BAT dont own the whole setup as people seem to think.
Dave Richards has had 3 offers from F1 teams since he left Beneton to manage but he wasnt interested, he isnt there to be an employee, he is there to own and run HIS business. Why do you think he left Beneton? It was because he couldnt get control of the business because Renault decided to buy it.
It has been the intent of Prodrive to enter F1 for a long time, taking over control of BAR is what will allow that. You are right, Honda did look into running their own team like Toyota is doing but after a years private running of their own car they decided that wasnt the best solution for them to achieve the goals of winning in F1 again.
People have the wrong idea about what prodrive is and does. They think all they do is run the Subaru WRC team. Way off base!
Prodrive employs 1000 people, they do work for every manufacturer out there including Ferrari. Every aspect of performance/race/rally technology they work with. Most is top secret work that the manufacturers dont want people to know about because it doesnt suit their image.
Prodrive working with Honda as a team is a perfectly natural thing to happen. It's no diferent than BMW working with Williams or Mercedes working with McLaren. Prodrive is not just Subaru, far from it.
Dave has been in negotiation with BAR for 6 months, nothing was made public for comercial reasons. Villeneuve didnt know about anything until the day before it was anounced. He is testing the new BAR on monday, if he isnt happy he is going to walk because he is unhappy with how his best mate, craig pollock, has been treated. The main shareholders in BAR are curently Pollock (still), Villeneuve, BAT and Reynard. BAT dont own the whole setup as people seem to think.
Dave Richards has had 3 offers from F1 teams since he left Beneton to manage but he wasnt interested, he isnt there to be an employee, he is there to own and run HIS business. Why do you think he left Beneton? It was because he couldnt get control of the business because Renault decided to buy it.
It has been the intent of Prodrive to enter F1 for a long time, taking over control of BAR is what will allow that. You are right, Honda did look into running their own team like Toyota is doing but after a years private running of their own car they decided that wasnt the best solution for them to achieve the goals of winning in F1 again.
People have the wrong idea about what prodrive is and does. They think all they do is run the Subaru WRC team. Way off base!
Prodrive employs 1000 people, they do work for every manufacturer out there including Ferrari. Every aspect of performance/race/rally technology they work with. Most is top secret work that the manufacturers dont want people to know about because it doesnt suit their image.
Prodrive working with Honda as a team is a perfectly natural thing to happen. It's no diferent than BMW working with Williams or Mercedes working with McLaren. Prodrive is not just Subaru, far from it.
| cj917 | 01-05-2002 02:00 PM |
John,
i know Prodrive does a lot more than rally, but my question was, what is gonna happen to Honda's involvement in BAR from this point on? i imagine if Honda wants more involvement in the R&D of the chassis, whether doing it alone or working seamlessly with Prodrive, there's no reason why the latter would say no
in short, how much more/less will Honda be involved with BAR? are they happy with supplying works engine to team(s), or do they want much more involvement, and in which areas? (although probably not to the degree of doing everything like what Toyota wants to)
man i hope JV walks out of the garage a happy man come Monday afternoon...... i think he's one of the best still, just that his motivation has taken a big hit with what BAR bas been (or more precisely, hasn't been) able to accomplish given their resources
-arthur
i know Prodrive does a lot more than rally, but my question was, what is gonna happen to Honda's involvement in BAR from this point on? i imagine if Honda wants more involvement in the R&D of the chassis, whether doing it alone or working seamlessly with Prodrive, there's no reason why the latter would say no
in short, how much more/less will Honda be involved with BAR? are they happy with supplying works engine to team(s), or do they want much more involvement, and in which areas? (although probably not to the degree of doing everything like what Toyota wants to)
man i hope JV walks out of the garage a happy man come Monday afternoon...... i think he's one of the best still, just that his motivation has taken a big hit with what BAR bas been (or more precisely, hasn't been) able to accomplish given their resources
-arthur
| johnfelstead | 01-05-2002 02:26 PM |
It's pretty simple really. Honda dont want to own/run an F1 team. They do want to contribute to the programme as much as they can though.
One of the guys on my rally team used to work for BAR on the electronics. That place needs someone like DR in charge because it's been war inside that company since it's inception. It was never going to work with Reynard and Pollock at each others throats.
One of the guys on my rally team used to work for BAR on the electronics. That place needs someone like DR in charge because it's been war inside that company since it's inception. It was never going to work with Reynard and Pollock at each others throats.
| Weasel 555 | 01-05-2002 07:36 PM |
in the wash !!!
555 gear been dusted off and in the wash ;)
hehehe
hehehe
| johnfelstead | 01-21-2002 12:03 PM |
Told you! :D:lol:
| Mel 22B | 01-21-2002 03:51 PM |
Prolly already posted but...
[IMG]http://a324.g.akamai.net/f/324/3595/1d/www.rally-live.com/2001/photos/2002/subaru/diapo_103.jpg[/IMG]
[URL=http://www.rally-live.com/2001/en/photos/2002/index_subaru_team.shtml]more[/URL]
-Mel
[IMG]http://a324.g.akamai.net/f/324/3595/1d/www.rally-live.com/2001/photos/2002/subaru/diapo_103.jpg[/IMG]
[URL=http://www.rally-live.com/2001/en/photos/2002/index_subaru_team.shtml]more[/URL]
-Mel
| wrx182 | 01-22-2002 09:49 AM |
if 555 and subaru are teamed back up...where are the 555 logos on their car??? didn't see them in monte carlo...are they in the process of teaming up or what?
| johnfelstead | 01-22-2002 11:53 AM |
cigarette adds are banned in france, not in Monte Carlo. This is teh car on the start ramp in 555 livery!
[IMG]http://www.btinternet.com/~john.felstead/MonteCarlo/DCP02363.JPG[/IMG]
[img]http://www.btinternet.com/~john.felstead/MonteCarlo/DCP02364.JPG[/img]
[IMG]http://www.btinternet.com/~john.felstead/MonteCarlo/DCP02363.JPG[/IMG]
[img]http://www.btinternet.com/~john.felstead/MonteCarlo/DCP02364.JPG[/img]
| wrx182 | 01-22-2002 12:59 PM |
oh, cool...i did not know that....thanks john.
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