| OBShahn | 08-09-2006 04:55 PM |
[QUOTE=ROC pit-bull]
2. Although the exposure is great for the sport in america. The fact remains exposure of WRC events on national TV would be better. The FIA should push to have some of their races on television in the US. You can't tell me that the spelling bee, or even cheerleading will get a better share of viewers.[/QUOTE]
Are you serious?
Forget getting the WRC on national TV being better for the sport. Put a US series on TV first. Show people something you can deliver, grown your event,s yourfan base, and get soem freaking sponsorship.
Having a couple million people se Sebastien Loeb trounce a field won't help a US team find a sponsor, a US event find a sponsor, of a US series find a sponsor. It will just make people go OOOOOO thats cool, and they do it in Europe....
2. Although the exposure is great for the sport in america. The fact remains exposure of WRC events on national TV would be better. The FIA should push to have some of their races on television in the US. You can't tell me that the spelling bee, or even cheerleading will get a better share of viewers.[/QUOTE]
Are you serious?
Forget getting the WRC on national TV being better for the sport. Put a US series on TV first. Show people something you can deliver, grown your event,s yourfan base, and get soem freaking sponsorship.
Having a couple million people se Sebastien Loeb trounce a field won't help a US team find a sponsor, a US event find a sponsor, of a US series find a sponsor. It will just make people go OOOOOO thats cool, and they do it in Europe....
| Evo3Codriver | 08-09-2006 11:19 PM |
[QUOTE=OBShahn]A top spec built to the nuts N4 car is going to be about $150,000.00.... hence my point....[/QUOTE]
I would hate to see groupN become the premier class in N America. First off, there aren't many choices for homologated cars imported here.
Secondly, its too hard keeping up with the legality of parts and policing them. Its hard keeping up with homologated parts. Look at what happened to Pat Richard at SnoDrift first time he tried GrN, an inquiry and disqualification if I remember correctly. Open class is run what you brung with few exceptions.
I like to tinker. Tinker is building stuff, fabricating stuff, lightening stuff, modifying stuff, boosting stuff, re-engineering stuff, .....GrN doesn't allow for the enginuity of the American mind. Part of the appeal of rallying is building the car and you lose that adopting pretty much production classes.
The North American Rally Cup ditched awarding Open class in 2001 (the year I would have won the codriver award :( ) in favor of awardng GrN instead to boost popularity for GrN, but since the award has gone unawarded most years. After Peter Thomson and the Losier's left GrN in Canada, no one is running them there now.
Lastly, I'm from the age before turbo restrictors were enforced in N.America. I'm not saying that was a good thing, but it sure was exciting, the sound of Sprongl's unrestricted Audi at full throttle still rings in my head and that was a good thing. Sure, adopting rules enforcing restrictors to slow cars was needed, but to what point? Jens saying that everyone must enter in hybrids to keep our fuel cost down? :o I'd get bored and move to something else.
I would hate to see groupN become the premier class in N America. First off, there aren't many choices for homologated cars imported here.
Secondly, its too hard keeping up with the legality of parts and policing them. Its hard keeping up with homologated parts. Look at what happened to Pat Richard at SnoDrift first time he tried GrN, an inquiry and disqualification if I remember correctly. Open class is run what you brung with few exceptions.
I like to tinker. Tinker is building stuff, fabricating stuff, lightening stuff, modifying stuff, boosting stuff, re-engineering stuff, .....GrN doesn't allow for the enginuity of the American mind. Part of the appeal of rallying is building the car and you lose that adopting pretty much production classes.
The North American Rally Cup ditched awarding Open class in 2001 (the year I would have won the codriver award :( ) in favor of awardng GrN instead to boost popularity for GrN, but since the award has gone unawarded most years. After Peter Thomson and the Losier's left GrN in Canada, no one is running them there now.
Lastly, I'm from the age before turbo restrictors were enforced in N.America. I'm not saying that was a good thing, but it sure was exciting, the sound of Sprongl's unrestricted Audi at full throttle still rings in my head and that was a good thing. Sure, adopting rules enforcing restrictors to slow cars was needed, but to what point? Jens saying that everyone must enter in hybrids to keep our fuel cost down? :o I'd get bored and move to something else.
| OBShahn | 08-10-2006 02:03 AM |
[QUOTE=Evo3Codriver]I would hate to see groupN become the premier class in N America. First off, there aren't many choices for homologated cars imported here.
Secondly, its too hard keeping up with the legality of parts and policing them. Its hard keeping up with homologated parts. Look at what happened to Pat Richard at SnoDrift first time he tried GrN, an inquiry and disqualification if I remember correctly. Open class is run what you brung with few exceptions.
I like to tinker. Tinker is building stuff, fabricating stuff, lightening stuff, modifying stuff, boosting stuff, re-engineering stuff, .....GrN doesn't allow for the enginuity of the American mind. Part of the appeal of rallying is building the car and you lose that adopting pretty much production classes.
The North American Rally Cup ditched awarding Open class in 2001 (the year I would have won the codriver award :( ) in favor of awardng GrN instead to boost popularity for GrN, but since the award has gone unawarded most years. After Peter Thomson and the Losier's left GrN in Canada, no one is running them there now.
Lastly, I'm from the age before turbo restrictors were enforced in N.America. I'm not saying that was a good thing, but it sure was exciting, the sound of Sprongl's unrestricted Audi at full throttle still rings in my head and that was a good thing. Sure, adopting rules enforcing restrictors to slow cars was needed, but to what point? Jens saying that everyone must enter in hybrids to keep our fuel cost down? :o I'd get bored and move to something else.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying GroupN is the way to go but....
2005 was pretty exciting.
The point I was trying to make is that there will always be the feeling that a good driver can outspend the competition in Open until there is enough money in the sport to prevent that or the ceiling is brought down.
Take what Pat said. Group N was expensive, but it was cheaper for him than Open. He didn't have to go back and keep re-engineering and re-inventing the wheel. He could build a car to full spec and know that it was as competitive as it could be and then go race it. If he didn't win he didn't need to go home and build a carbon fiber roof, or a 2.3l stroker motor, or order super trick diffs to keep up with the Jones's.
I'm not saying there is a problem with Open, I am just saying that people will keep saying so and so won because of the car until you can have a field of equal cars...
Secondly, its too hard keeping up with the legality of parts and policing them. Its hard keeping up with homologated parts. Look at what happened to Pat Richard at SnoDrift first time he tried GrN, an inquiry and disqualification if I remember correctly. Open class is run what you brung with few exceptions.
I like to tinker. Tinker is building stuff, fabricating stuff, lightening stuff, modifying stuff, boosting stuff, re-engineering stuff, .....GrN doesn't allow for the enginuity of the American mind. Part of the appeal of rallying is building the car and you lose that adopting pretty much production classes.
The North American Rally Cup ditched awarding Open class in 2001 (the year I would have won the codriver award :( ) in favor of awardng GrN instead to boost popularity for GrN, but since the award has gone unawarded most years. After Peter Thomson and the Losier's left GrN in Canada, no one is running them there now.
Lastly, I'm from the age before turbo restrictors were enforced in N.America. I'm not saying that was a good thing, but it sure was exciting, the sound of Sprongl's unrestricted Audi at full throttle still rings in my head and that was a good thing. Sure, adopting rules enforcing restrictors to slow cars was needed, but to what point? Jens saying that everyone must enter in hybrids to keep our fuel cost down? :o I'd get bored and move to something else.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying GroupN is the way to go but....
2005 was pretty exciting.
The point I was trying to make is that there will always be the feeling that a good driver can outspend the competition in Open until there is enough money in the sport to prevent that or the ceiling is brought down.
Take what Pat said. Group N was expensive, but it was cheaper for him than Open. He didn't have to go back and keep re-engineering and re-inventing the wheel. He could build a car to full spec and know that it was as competitive as it could be and then go race it. If he didn't win he didn't need to go home and build a carbon fiber roof, or a 2.3l stroker motor, or order super trick diffs to keep up with the Jones's.
I'm not saying there is a problem with Open, I am just saying that people will keep saying so and so won because of the car until you can have a field of equal cars...
| GRMPer | 08-10-2006 07:10 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]
I'm not defending SCCA here, but It's interesting to see how history re-writes itself when you have a grudge.
--kC[/QUOTE]
+1
If you listened to the Interweb, you'd think that Kurt Spitzner was flying around in a black helicopter, stopping at black masses and then flying to a rally to make sure that it failed. I'd actually be afraid to post that on SS.
Per
I'm not defending SCCA here, but It's interesting to see how history re-writes itself when you have a grudge.
--kC[/QUOTE]
+1
If you listened to the Interweb, you'd think that Kurt Spitzner was flying around in a black helicopter, stopping at black masses and then flying to a rally to make sure that it failed. I'd actually be afraid to post that on SS.
Per
| Howl | 08-10-2006 09:03 AM |
I think the main point is any national or international upper level competition (Open, GpN., WRC, X-games) in North America will have a trickle-down effect on the sport as a whole. The more it's on TV the more people will want to watch it, which will mean more people will want to become involved and more sponsers will see it as a worthwhile investment. I don't really care what the format is at the top level as long as it has a positive impact on the grassroots level.
What is important to me is that is remains a "Real Cars on Real Roads" sport. I don't want to see real rallying replaced by a glorifed rallyX type of event. Not that I don't like rallyX, it's just not the same sport.
What is important to me is that is remains a "Real Cars on Real Roads" sport. I don't want to see real rallying replaced by a glorifed rallyX type of event. Not that I don't like rallyX, it's just not the same sport.
| Wazoo Racing | 08-10-2006 10:44 AM |
The success of rally in the X Games provides a spring board that it has never had (read the book* if you want the comprehensive background of the sport in the US). Feedback that I have heard from a number of people associated with the event was that everyone - organizers, sponsors and ABC/ESPN - everyone was absolutely overwhelmed by how successful rally was in the X Games. Were there apparent issues for those of us already sucked into the dark side - yes. But to the unenlightened masses it looks like it was a big hit. But lets keep in mind what it was - a made for TV rally.
We will know soon since the Nielsen ratings come out about today.
Feedback from the Maine Forest Rally was that they had more spectators attend then ever before (comments from John Buffum and Ted Goddard). That's good and bad since they really didnt plan for large crowds, some spectator areas were packed therefore some spectators had a bad experience. Better planning next year will alleviate that (I hope).
The future of rallying in the states can go two ways:
1- Stays in the background with very little corporate association at all levels. Continues to muddle along. There will always be middle of the pack teams pushing hard to make it to the top 10 and screaming that they arent getting enough press etc.. But some are already getting that. SOA gives anyone starting - not finishing just starting - a check either $500 or $200. That is trickledown right there. Certainly not enough to cover all the costs that's for sure but its cash (OK a check).
2- The current success leads to more corporate involvement and sponsorship. Everyone likes that concept except..... when the sport starts to change. Change will include more super special stages like Mexico Rec at Maine or the SSS in the X Games. Some wont like that - but the reality is you have to play to the TV and media (what other sports do you know of that have TV Commercial timeouts?) to keep the sponsors happy (aka. they get a return on their investment). Would you see additional trickle down so that back/mid of pack runners get some benefit - yes but not enough so that those competitors get all their expenses paid for.
Other changes/improvements you could see:
- Full TV series on ESPN or ESPN2
- Changes in the season start/finish. Maybe the X Games is the last event/championship and the qualifiers some thing like the Race for the Chase.
- Changes in what events are national championship versus regional.
- Additional restrictions on cars in regards to speed/torque etc. To keep the speed down not to give the privateers a chance at winning the overall. What other NATIONAL motorsports series that has a lot of media exposure places limits at the top end of their sport. That's why there are other cheaper but still competitive classes.
- Spec series based on Scion tC's or Kia Spectra5's or something like that- including manufacturer support. Its more likely that "new" manufacturers would get seriously involved with a spec series then established US manufacturers.
- Regional and national series sponsors. Could possibly lower the entry fee or provide more infrastructure to support the events. But they might want a change in location or time or etc....
All of these changes (plus more I am sure) are in discussion but wont happen if there is not continued success.
I personally don't think the US is ready for a WRC event and that shouldnt be what we are striving for. What we need a strong developed fan base who show up to events, buy the sponsors products or services, watch the tv broadcasts and are excited about the sport. That will sustain the sport. Once that happens a by-product will be a WRC event in the states for everyone that wants to attend.
-Tim
Wazoo Racing
* the book is [U]In like a Lamb, out like a Lion[/U] The Story of John Buffum as written by his former co-driver Tom Grimshaw. It oultines the history and politics of rallying in the US since the late 1960's. You can buy one here from Brett: [url]www.RALLYGRAFIX.com[/url] and yes Bret is one of my sponsors but JB isnt (unfortunately :))
We will know soon since the Nielsen ratings come out about today.
Feedback from the Maine Forest Rally was that they had more spectators attend then ever before (comments from John Buffum and Ted Goddard). That's good and bad since they really didnt plan for large crowds, some spectator areas were packed therefore some spectators had a bad experience. Better planning next year will alleviate that (I hope).
The future of rallying in the states can go two ways:
1- Stays in the background with very little corporate association at all levels. Continues to muddle along. There will always be middle of the pack teams pushing hard to make it to the top 10 and screaming that they arent getting enough press etc.. But some are already getting that. SOA gives anyone starting - not finishing just starting - a check either $500 or $200. That is trickledown right there. Certainly not enough to cover all the costs that's for sure but its cash (OK a check).
2- The current success leads to more corporate involvement and sponsorship. Everyone likes that concept except..... when the sport starts to change. Change will include more super special stages like Mexico Rec at Maine or the SSS in the X Games. Some wont like that - but the reality is you have to play to the TV and media (what other sports do you know of that have TV Commercial timeouts?) to keep the sponsors happy (aka. they get a return on their investment). Would you see additional trickle down so that back/mid of pack runners get some benefit - yes but not enough so that those competitors get all their expenses paid for.
Other changes/improvements you could see:
- Full TV series on ESPN or ESPN2
- Changes in the season start/finish. Maybe the X Games is the last event/championship and the qualifiers some thing like the Race for the Chase.
- Changes in what events are national championship versus regional.
- Additional restrictions on cars in regards to speed/torque etc. To keep the speed down not to give the privateers a chance at winning the overall. What other NATIONAL motorsports series that has a lot of media exposure places limits at the top end of their sport. That's why there are other cheaper but still competitive classes.
- Spec series based on Scion tC's or Kia Spectra5's or something like that- including manufacturer support. Its more likely that "new" manufacturers would get seriously involved with a spec series then established US manufacturers.
- Regional and national series sponsors. Could possibly lower the entry fee or provide more infrastructure to support the events. But they might want a change in location or time or etc....
All of these changes (plus more I am sure) are in discussion but wont happen if there is not continued success.
I personally don't think the US is ready for a WRC event and that shouldnt be what we are striving for. What we need a strong developed fan base who show up to events, buy the sponsors products or services, watch the tv broadcasts and are excited about the sport. That will sustain the sport. Once that happens a by-product will be a WRC event in the states for everyone that wants to attend.
-Tim
Wazoo Racing
* the book is [U]In like a Lamb, out like a Lion[/U] The Story of John Buffum as written by his former co-driver Tom Grimshaw. It oultines the history and politics of rallying in the US since the late 1960's. You can buy one here from Brett: [url]www.RALLYGRAFIX.com[/url] and yes Bret is one of my sponsors but JB isnt (unfortunately :))
| bjorn240 | 08-10-2006 11:11 AM |
Tim, you are the man. I agree 100%. Build the sport organically. Let's hope the ratings are good. The production people seemed to enjoy it, so if the ratings are good, I think chances are good we'll see rally in the X Games again.
| REDrum | 08-10-2006 12:04 PM |
Yeah, what Christian said...
+1 for Tim's fine discourse.
I think Tim has touched on a very good caution point; how rally, as we know and love it today, may have to change to suit sponsorship and media needs.
Change is a very sharp double edged sword. As I've posted elsewhere, I'd hate to see rally migrate into a stadium dirt drifting and jumping sport, but would also love to see rally much less resource constrained.
+1 for Tim's fine discourse.
I think Tim has touched on a very good caution point; how rally, as we know and love it today, may have to change to suit sponsorship and media needs.
Change is a very sharp double edged sword. As I've posted elsewhere, I'd hate to see rally migrate into a stadium dirt drifting and jumping sport, but would also love to see rally much less resource constrained.
| WRXedUSA | 08-10-2006 12:43 PM |
[QUOTE=REDrum]
Change is a very sharp double edged sword. As I've posted elsewhere, I'd hate to see rally migrate into a stadium dirt drifting and jumping sport, but would also love to see rally much less resource constrained.[/QUOTE]
This was my feeling about the whole thing all along ^^^
Change is a very sharp double edged sword. As I've posted elsewhere, I'd hate to see rally migrate into a stadium dirt drifting and jumping sport, but would also love to see rally much less resource constrained.[/QUOTE]
This was my feeling about the whole thing all along ^^^
| RichardM | 08-10-2006 02:46 PM |
Per, More publicity please. GRM does a great job of showing all facets of racing don't have to cost millions to participate in.
Thanks, Richard
Thanks, Richard
| GRMPer | 08-10-2006 03:35 PM |
See the upcoming October cover of GRM. The cover shot is Travis/Christian at Oregon Trail and a cover story on how we got involved with stage rally on the cheap. Plus, there's a bunch more rally coverage than normal...
Hope it helps. Can't say every issue will be that rally-riffic, but we try.
a future issue (Nov? Dec?) will have more Subie project cars stuff with how we did at Rally WV.
Per
Hope it helps. Can't say every issue will be that rally-riffic, but we try.
a future issue (Nov? Dec?) will have more Subie project cars stuff with how we did at Rally WV.
Per
| ROC pit-bull | 08-11-2006 04:40 PM |
[QUOTE=OBShahn]Are you serious?
Forget getting the WRC on national TV being better for the sport. Put a US series on TV first. Show people something you can deliver, grown your event,s yourfan base, and get soem freaking sponsorship.
Having a couple million people se Sebastien Loeb trounce a field won't help a US team find a sponsor, a US event find a sponsor, of a US series find a sponsor. It will just make people go OOOOOO thats cool, and they do it in Europe....[/QUOTE]
Yes I am serious. you don't see dirt track racing on tv, you see nascar. You don't see some scca events on nat. tv you see champ, indy, NFL not CFL, NHL not AHL, ect...
you need to show the top drivers in the top cars on nat. tv. All the rest of the org. such as nasa, and RA should be relagated to espn, oln speed, ect till popularity picks up.
Forget getting the WRC on national TV being better for the sport. Put a US series on TV first. Show people something you can deliver, grown your event,s yourfan base, and get soem freaking sponsorship.
Having a couple million people se Sebastien Loeb trounce a field won't help a US team find a sponsor, a US event find a sponsor, of a US series find a sponsor. It will just make people go OOOOOO thats cool, and they do it in Europe....[/QUOTE]
Yes I am serious. you don't see dirt track racing on tv, you see nascar. You don't see some scca events on nat. tv you see champ, indy, NFL not CFL, NHL not AHL, ect...
you need to show the top drivers in the top cars on nat. tv. All the rest of the org. such as nasa, and RA should be relagated to espn, oln speed, ect till popularity picks up.
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét