| bemani | 05-11-2004 06:14 PM |
WRC Cyprus thread!
�
�
No one cares for WRC anymore?
More importantly, do you think Mitsubishi can make it through the rally?
I say no...
More importantly, do you think Mitsubishi can make it through the rally?
I say no...
| Sergeant_V | 05-11-2004 06:16 PM |
I think it will be a tough fight between Martin and Solberg. My money is on Solberg.
| AndyRoo | 05-11-2004 06:28 PM |
can the mitsu even make it through day 1? stage 1?
Anways, all the F1 hoopla is making me appreciate the competition there is in the WRC even more.
Go Solberg!
Anways, all the F1 hoopla is making me appreciate the competition there is in the WRC even more.
Go Solberg!
| WRXinWhite | 05-11-2004 09:33 PM |
I have a suspicion that this weekend will be all about Peugeot. Marcus is ready to do some damage again. My prediction:
Gronholm
Martin
Loeb
Solberg
Duval
Sainz
Loix
Hirvonen
I would not bet any money on it;) Those are the names in any given order...
Gronholm
Martin
Loeb
Solberg
Duval
Sainz
Loix
Hirvonen
I would not bet any money on it;) Those are the names in any given order...
| rupertberr | 05-12-2004 09:54 AM |
WRC cars lost at sea! Major storm has knocked the ship carrying the cars well off course. Teams have to use rental cars to do recce:
[url]http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=27193&s=8[/url]
:eek: :lol:
[url]http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=27193&s=8[/url]
:eek: :lol:
| wrrrx | 05-12-2004 10:00 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by WRXinWhite [/i]
[B]I have a suspicion that this weekend will be all about Peugeot. Marcus is ready to do some damage again. My prediction:
Gronholm
Martin
Loeb
Solberg
Duval
Sainz
Loix
Hirvonen
I would not bet any money on it;) Those are the names in any given order... [/B][/QUOTE]
"[B]LOIX[/B]"?!?!
Is he even competing?? I thought Harri was just confirmed for all of Pug's gravel events, wasn't he?
Russ R
[B]I have a suspicion that this weekend will be all about Peugeot. Marcus is ready to do some damage again. My prediction:
Gronholm
Martin
Loeb
Solberg
Duval
Sainz
Loix
Hirvonen
I would not bet any money on it;) Those are the names in any given order... [/B][/QUOTE]
"[B]LOIX[/B]"?!?!
Is he even competing?? I thought Harri was just confirmed for all of Pug's gravel events, wasn't he?
Russ R
| datageek | 05-12-2004 01:11 PM |
Re: WRC Cyprus thread!
�
�
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by bemani [/i]
[B]
More importantly, do you think Mitsubishi can make it through the rally?
[/B][/QUOTE]
Given the problems with the weather in the Med, it sounds like the question is if Mitsubishi can make it [B]to[/B] the rally!
If their reliability were higher, I would say that Cyprus would be an excellent opportunity or Mitsubishi to finish well, since a lot of other cars are likely to go out. But given the recent problems found with the suspension, it seems unlikely they can take advantage of others' misfortunes.
My money's on Petter for the win. The techincal events are his favorites.
The stage that took out both the 2003-spec Fords last year is the second stage to run this year. Hopefully they have cured their dust-ingesting problem, or it could be a very short event for Ford!
Anyone who is interested, I have a really long, full team-by-team analysis [URL=http://www.livejournal.com/users/datageek/51821.html#cutid1]here[/URL]. (It also has the times the stages run at, adjusted for PDT, for anyone who doesn't want to do the math. Yes, I spend too much time thinking about this! :p)
[B]
More importantly, do you think Mitsubishi can make it through the rally?
[/B][/QUOTE]
Given the problems with the weather in the Med, it sounds like the question is if Mitsubishi can make it [B]to[/B] the rally!
If their reliability were higher, I would say that Cyprus would be an excellent opportunity or Mitsubishi to finish well, since a lot of other cars are likely to go out. But given the recent problems found with the suspension, it seems unlikely they can take advantage of others' misfortunes.
My money's on Petter for the win. The techincal events are his favorites.
The stage that took out both the 2003-spec Fords last year is the second stage to run this year. Hopefully they have cured their dust-ingesting problem, or it could be a very short event for Ford!
Anyone who is interested, I have a really long, full team-by-team analysis [URL=http://www.livejournal.com/users/datageek/51821.html#cutid1]here[/URL]. (It also has the times the stages run at, adjusted for PDT, for anyone who doesn't want to do the math. Yes, I spend too much time thinking about this! :p)
| rupertberr | 05-12-2004 10:43 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rupertberr [/i]
[B]WRC cars lost at sea! Major storm has knocked the ship carrying the cars well off course. Teams have to use rental cars to do recce:
[url]http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=27193&s=8[/url]
:eek: :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
I think Gronholm's ship will come in... :lol:
1. Gronholm
2. Solberg
3. Loeb
4. Sainz
5. Duval
6. Rovenperra
[B]WRC cars lost at sea! Major storm has knocked the ship carrying the cars well off course. Teams have to use rental cars to do recce:
[url]http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=27193&s=8[/url]
:eek: :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
I think Gronholm's ship will come in... :lol:
1. Gronholm
2. Solberg
3. Loeb
4. Sainz
5. Duval
6. Rovenperra
| WRXinWhite | 05-12-2004 11:06 PM |
Loix, Rovanpera same difference I meant the second Pug.
I hope for a Subaru win, but am not so sure about that...
I hope for a Subaru win, but am not so sure about that...
| datageek | 05-13-2004 01:45 PM |
Marcus set fastest time at Shakedown, followed by Petter and Francois Duval. Due to the problems getting the equipment to Cyprus, most of the crews only took one or two runs on the stage, and many of them weren't pushing very hard. Also, there was an incident that caused the stage to be shut down for half an hour.
More info on wrc.com: [url]http://www.wrc.com/News.aspx?PO_ID=3032&lang=en_GB[/url]
More info on wrc.com: [url]http://www.wrc.com/News.aspx?PO_ID=3032&lang=en_GB[/url]
| johnfelstead | 05-13-2004 08:44 PM |
Cyprus is super demanding on the crews, it's very hot in the cars due to poor cooling with so many slow corners, it's quite low speed apart from one section on the dry river bed, which is incredibly fast. A strong car is what is needed, so i think Subaru has the best package and i predict Petter will win this by a big margin.
The rest of the pack, well there are so few these days you can pretty much predict its going to be Marcus, Marko, Loeb and Sainz making up the first 5.
The rest of the pack, well there are so few these days you can pretty much predict its going to be Marcus, Marko, Loeb and Sainz making up the first 5.
| rupertberr | 05-14-2004 09:52 AM |
Solberg is in trouble after leading the first three stages. Lost 4 minutes on stage four after engine overheats. Moving slowly through stage five.
Gronholm now leads the Rally.
Gronholm now leads the Rally.
| lark6 | 05-14-2004 10:12 AM |
^ Disappointing, but like other rallies of attrition (e.g. Acropolis, Safari) you should never give up hope. You never know when the leader will hit a rock or (like Solberg) have his car overheat.
| Sergeant_V | 05-14-2004 10:15 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rupertberr [/i]
[B]Solberg is in trouble after leading the first three stages. Lost 4 minutes on stage four after engine overheats. Moving slowly through stage five.
Gronholm now leads the Rally. [/B][/QUOTE]
That's not good news. I don't have access to any sites that provide rally updates from work (except this one). Keep us up to date.
By the way, I hope to see you at Pikes Peak this year.
Abel
[B]Solberg is in trouble after leading the first three stages. Lost 4 minutes on stage four after engine overheats. Moving slowly through stage five.
Gronholm now leads the Rally. [/B][/QUOTE]
That's not good news. I don't have access to any sites that provide rally updates from work (except this one). Keep us up to date.
By the way, I hope to see you at Pikes Peak this year.
Abel
| Jfrankon | 05-14-2004 10:49 AM |
Here is the story after 5 stages:
SS4 1448hrs Lagoudera - Spilia 38.32km
The second pass through the longest test of the event, the rocky and rutted 38.32km stage from Lagoudera saw the first large gaps appear on the overall leaderboard. Gronholm was fastest and took the overall lead, while Carlos Sainz was second quickest and Markko Martin third. There were problems for Petter Solberg when the radiator on his car became blocked with sand and dirt. This hampered the airflow and caused the engine temperature to rise. To cope, the engine management system automatically switched to a safe running mode, which stabilised the temperature, at the expense of some performance. At the finish, the Norwegian had lost 4 minutes 11 seconds. His team-mate, Mikko Hirvonen, was sixth fastest. There was more bad luck for Mitsubishi's Sohlberg as the Finn dropped a further eight minutes due to a slipping clutch. He ended the test in fifteenth place overall.
Fastest Time: Gronholm (Peugeot) 34:55.7
SS5 1611hrs Kourdali - Asinou 15.00km
After stopping at the roadside to clean the sand from his car's radiator using water from his drinking bottle, Petter Solberg, and the remaining WRC drivers, headed 6.72km north to the start of the repeated 15km stage near to the town of Kourdali. Sebastien Loeb was the pace-setter and took his second win of the day, while gravel specialist Rovanpera was second quickest and Martin third. Still encountering blocking problems with his car's radiator, Solberg lost more time when he stopped to clear the dust. Mitsubishi driver, Kristian Sohlberg lost another 4 minutes as a result of his car's continuing clutch problem.
Fastest Time: Loeb (Citroen) 15:32.2
YIKES!!!!:mad: :furious: :furious:
SS4 1448hrs Lagoudera - Spilia 38.32km
The second pass through the longest test of the event, the rocky and rutted 38.32km stage from Lagoudera saw the first large gaps appear on the overall leaderboard. Gronholm was fastest and took the overall lead, while Carlos Sainz was second quickest and Markko Martin third. There were problems for Petter Solberg when the radiator on his car became blocked with sand and dirt. This hampered the airflow and caused the engine temperature to rise. To cope, the engine management system automatically switched to a safe running mode, which stabilised the temperature, at the expense of some performance. At the finish, the Norwegian had lost 4 minutes 11 seconds. His team-mate, Mikko Hirvonen, was sixth fastest. There was more bad luck for Mitsubishi's Sohlberg as the Finn dropped a further eight minutes due to a slipping clutch. He ended the test in fifteenth place overall.
Fastest Time: Gronholm (Peugeot) 34:55.7
SS5 1611hrs Kourdali - Asinou 15.00km
After stopping at the roadside to clean the sand from his car's radiator using water from his drinking bottle, Petter Solberg, and the remaining WRC drivers, headed 6.72km north to the start of the repeated 15km stage near to the town of Kourdali. Sebastien Loeb was the pace-setter and took his second win of the day, while gravel specialist Rovanpera was second quickest and Martin third. Still encountering blocking problems with his car's radiator, Solberg lost more time when he stopped to clear the dust. Mitsubishi driver, Kristian Sohlberg lost another 4 minutes as a result of his car's continuing clutch problem.
Fastest Time: Loeb (Citroen) 15:32.2
YIKES!!!!:mad: :furious: :furious:
| extraducksauce | 05-14-2004 02:25 PM |
motherfather. but you know what, everyone falls on their face in cyprus. just wait . . . this only the [i]first day[/i] :devil:.
| bemani | 05-14-2004 04:40 PM |
Why only Petter's radiator? You'd think both Imprezas would have the same problem?
| johnfelstead | 05-14-2004 04:55 PM |
depends how lucky or unlucky they are on that section of the stage really. Just look at what happened at Rim, Jamie's radiator was clogged with muck and had similar overheating, other WRX's didnt suffer as badly with muck and didnt have problems.
| Jfrankon | 05-14-2004 09:31 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by bemani [/i]
[B]Why only Petter's radiator? You'd think both Imprezas would have the same problem? [/B][/QUOTE]
No, it had to do with Petter bending his front bumber, which started to act like a scoop for the dirt and debris to go right into his radiator...
Hope the same happens to another works team tomorrow, so Miko can move ahead!!:)
[B]Why only Petter's radiator? You'd think both Imprezas would have the same problem? [/B][/QUOTE]
No, it had to do with Petter bending his front bumber, which started to act like a scoop for the dirt and debris to go right into his radiator...
Hope the same happens to another works team tomorrow, so Miko can move ahead!!:)
| quentinberg007 | 05-15-2004 03:03 PM |
Mikko = 6th
Petter = 8th
Petter was driving really fast today. Just like mexico, if he didn't have that one bad thing happen, he would be slaughtering the field. :(
~~Quentin
Petter = 8th
Petter was driving really fast today. Just like mexico, if he didn't have that one bad thing happen, he would be slaughtering the field. :(
~~Quentin
| akm3 | 05-16-2004 11:13 AM |
Petter drives like a demon, that's for sure!
| Butt Dyno | 05-16-2004 10:51 PM |
Petter was complaining about someone throwing rocks on the road.. did anyone see anything more about this?
john
john
| bemani | 05-16-2004 11:47 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jfrankon [/i]
[B]No, it had to do with Petter bending his front bumber, which started to act like a scoop for the dirt and debris to go right into his radiator...
[/B][/QUOTE]
Well okay, that's his own fault for damaging it then, can't blame the car or anything ...
I was thinking maybe they need the Safari mesh shield if the car's sucking in rocks :lol:
[B]No, it had to do with Petter bending his front bumber, which started to act like a scoop for the dirt and debris to go right into his radiator...
[/B][/QUOTE]
Well okay, that's his own fault for damaging it then, can't blame the car or anything ...
I was thinking maybe they need the Safari mesh shield if the car's sucking in rocks :lol:
| Jfrankon | 05-17-2004 12:00 PM |
Gronholm's win faces post-race threat
�
�
DID YOU FANS SEE THIS!!!!! WHAT A TURN OF EVENTS FOR SUBARU!!! CHECK IT OUT!!:disco: :banana: :disco:
Gronholm's win faces post-race threat
Cyprus - Peugeot - Marcus Gr�nholm - 17/05/2004 10:14:10
Marcus Gronholm�s first win for the Peugeot 307 WRC is under threat after event Cyprus Rally organisers found a potential problem with the water pump on the engines of both Peugeot and Citroen�s works entries in post-event scrutineering.
The 307s of event winner Gronholm and fifth-placed team-mate Harri Rovanpera and the Citroen Xsaras of second-placed Sebastian Loeb and fourth-placed Carlos Sainz will be subject to further checks on Wednesday 19 May, at which point the rally result will be confirmed.
Until then the result will remain provisional. If the four cars are excluded from the event, then Ford�s Markko Martin will be handed the win and a potential 19-point lead in the drivers� championship standings. The Subarus of reigning world champion Petter Solberg and team-mate Mikko Hirvonen would also be promoted to the podium.
Both the Peugeot 307 and Citroen Xsara WRCs use the same basic engine, the XU7, and World Rally Championship homologation rules require that the standard water pump is used. Former world champion Colin McRae�s Ford Focus was excluded from third place on the 1999 Monte Carlo rally, the car�s debut, after a similar problem was found
Gronholm's win faces post-race threat
Cyprus - Peugeot - Marcus Gr�nholm - 17/05/2004 10:14:10
Marcus Gronholm�s first win for the Peugeot 307 WRC is under threat after event Cyprus Rally organisers found a potential problem with the water pump on the engines of both Peugeot and Citroen�s works entries in post-event scrutineering.
The 307s of event winner Gronholm and fifth-placed team-mate Harri Rovanpera and the Citroen Xsaras of second-placed Sebastian Loeb and fourth-placed Carlos Sainz will be subject to further checks on Wednesday 19 May, at which point the rally result will be confirmed.
Until then the result will remain provisional. If the four cars are excluded from the event, then Ford�s Markko Martin will be handed the win and a potential 19-point lead in the drivers� championship standings. The Subarus of reigning world champion Petter Solberg and team-mate Mikko Hirvonen would also be promoted to the podium.
Both the Peugeot 307 and Citroen Xsara WRCs use the same basic engine, the XU7, and World Rally Championship homologation rules require that the standard water pump is used. Former world champion Colin McRae�s Ford Focus was excluded from third place on the 1999 Monte Carlo rally, the car�s debut, after a similar problem was found
| skuttledude | 05-17-2004 01:47 PM |
holy smokes. Good catch!:eek:
| bemani | 05-17-2004 02:01 PM |
Re: Gronholm's win faces post-race threat
�
�
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jfrankon [/i]
[B]DID YOU FANS SEE THIS!!!!! WHAT A TURN OF EVENTS FOR SUBARU!!! CHECK IT OUT!!:disco: :banana: :disco:
Until then the result will remain provisional. If the four cars are excluded from the event, then Ford�s Markko Martin will be handed the win and a potential 19-point lead in the drivers� championship standings. The Subarus of reigning world champion Petter Solberg and team-mate Mikko Hirvonen would also be promoted to the podium.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Huh? 19 point lead????
If it is true ... Markko = 36, Petter = 31
[B]DID YOU FANS SEE THIS!!!!! WHAT A TURN OF EVENTS FOR SUBARU!!! CHECK IT OUT!!:disco: :banana: :disco:
Until then the result will remain provisional. If the four cars are excluded from the event, then Ford�s Markko Martin will be handed the win and a potential 19-point lead in the drivers� championship standings. The Subarus of reigning world champion Petter Solberg and team-mate Mikko Hirvonen would also be promoted to the podium.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Huh? 19 point lead????
If it is true ... Markko = 36, Petter = 31
| totoherbs | 05-17-2004 08:13 PM |
:lol: :lol:
If it goes down it would be too funny.
If it goes down it would be too funny.
| CirrusWRX | 05-18-2004 01:32 AM |
In one way, I almost hope it DOESN'T go down, simply for the sake of Gronholm and his team. He's been SO pissed this entire season with the crappy performance of the 307, and I felt he kind of deserved this one after all his troubles of late.
If you thought he was pissed about the gearbox, can you imagine if they strip his win?! I think it'll further infuriate him, disappoint the team, and cause even more tension. Hate to see a top driver like that get the shaft...
of course, I'm still a Subaru fan at heart, so to see Hiro and Petter move up, I can't say I wouldn't be pleased :D
If you thought he was pissed about the gearbox, can you imagine if they strip his win?! I think it'll further infuriate him, disappoint the team, and cause even more tension. Hate to see a top driver like that get the shaft...
of course, I'm still a Subaru fan at heart, so to see Hiro and Petter move up, I can't say I wouldn't be pleased :D
| rupertberr | 05-18-2004 01:50 AM |
I would rather see it decided on the road and not the court room. Marcus deserved the win. Change the car for next time if they must.
Abel, see you on the Peak! Will you be racing or spectating?
Abel, see you on the Peak! Will you be racing or spectating?
| johnfelstead | 05-18-2004 07:52 AM |
If the car isnt legal, they should be excluded. Rules should be adheared to and aplied without emotion, otherwise you have anarchy.
It sounds a simple thing, if its not legal just swap the water pump, but usually there is a good reason for them to change something if they have indeed done that. In Fords case they had to redesign the whole engine assembly location to make the water pump fit as the stock pump hit the chassis, so what sounds like a small task could involve a total redesign under the bonnet.
It sounds a simple thing, if its not legal just swap the water pump, but usually there is a good reason for them to change something if they have indeed done that. In Fords case they had to redesign the whole engine assembly location to make the water pump fit as the stock pump hit the chassis, so what sounds like a small task could involve a total redesign under the bonnet.
| akuhner | 05-18-2004 08:48 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]If the car isnt legal, they should be excluded. Rules should be adheared to and aplied without emotion, otherwise you have anarchy.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Agreed, the rules are the rules. However, if they did break them, intentionally or not, the disqualifications wouldn't be a good thing even if it does mean Petter advances. Even if they didn't mean to cheat, it's not good for the sport - races should be settled on the course.
Do you guys blindly support any Subaru driver or do you really think Petter is the man to win the title this year? Petter is more than talented enough to pull it off, but so are Loeb and Martin.
Alex
[B]If the car isnt legal, they should be excluded. Rules should be adheared to and aplied without emotion, otherwise you have anarchy.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Agreed, the rules are the rules. However, if they did break them, intentionally or not, the disqualifications wouldn't be a good thing even if it does mean Petter advances. Even if they didn't mean to cheat, it's not good for the sport - races should be settled on the course.
Do you guys blindly support any Subaru driver or do you really think Petter is the man to win the title this year? Petter is more than talented enough to pull it off, but so are Loeb and Martin.
Alex
| SlideWRX | 05-18-2004 09:10 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Car #187[/i]
[B] Do you guys blindly support any Subaru driver or do you really think Petter is the man to win the title this year? Petter is more than talented enough to pull it off, but so are Loeb and Martin.
[/B][/QUOTE]
True, I'd say the title fight is between Solberg, Loeb, Martin & Gronholm.
This season is quite odd, as Burns & McRae are out, Hyundai & Skoda are delayed (though not usually in contention for anything), and Mitsubishi can't build a rally car to finish a race. For the first half of this season we are really short on drivers. While the ones not running aren't big names (although either Burns [i]or[/i] McRae would be running great this year), They would be grabbing points in the standing, taking a few from each of the top drivers. I'd say Gilles Panizzi would be taking points if the car would run, and Hyundai & Skoda would grab a couple lower point finishes each race.
Tom
[B] Do you guys blindly support any Subaru driver or do you really think Petter is the man to win the title this year? Petter is more than talented enough to pull it off, but so are Loeb and Martin.
[/B][/QUOTE]
True, I'd say the title fight is between Solberg, Loeb, Martin & Gronholm.
This season is quite odd, as Burns & McRae are out, Hyundai & Skoda are delayed (though not usually in contention for anything), and Mitsubishi can't build a rally car to finish a race. For the first half of this season we are really short on drivers. While the ones not running aren't big names (although either Burns [i]or[/i] McRae would be running great this year), They would be grabbing points in the standing, taking a few from each of the top drivers. I'd say Gilles Panizzi would be taking points if the car would run, and Hyundai & Skoda would grab a couple lower point finishes each race.
Tom
| Sergeant_V | 05-18-2004 09:18 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rupertberr [/i]
[B]I would rather see it decided on the road and not the court room. Marcus deserved the win. Change the car for next time if they must.
Abel, see you on the Peak! Will you be racing or spectating? [/B][/QUOTE]
Victor and I hope to be racing! He's still working out the deal.
Abel
[B]I would rather see it decided on the road and not the court room. Marcus deserved the win. Change the car for next time if they must.
Abel, see you on the Peak! Will you be racing or spectating? [/B][/QUOTE]
Victor and I hope to be racing! He's still working out the deal.
Abel
| ShockWave | 05-18-2004 10:04 AM |
That would be a lot of points handed out to privateers if the French cars are DQ'd.
| cdvma | 05-18-2004 12:15 PM |
WOW, thats a crappy turn of events for Marcus. I was happy (even though I'm a Subaru fan) that he won the rally, he really deserved it after all his misfortunes with the car.
| rupertberr | 05-18-2004 12:25 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sergeant_V [/i]
[B]Victor and I hope to be racing! He's still working out the deal.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Excellent. Let us know if you need any help up here. We have plenty of volunteers who would work for a beer.
[B]Victor and I hope to be racing! He's still working out the deal.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Excellent. Let us know if you need any help up here. We have plenty of volunteers who would work for a beer.
| johnfelstead | 05-18-2004 07:01 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Car #187 [/i]
[B]Agreed, the rules are the rules. However, if they did break them, intentionally or not, the disqualifications wouldn't be a good thing even if it does mean Petter advances. Even if they didn't mean to cheat, it's not good for the sport - races should be settled on the course. [/B][/QUOTE]
You cant have your cake and eat it. Strickly aplied rules are the bedrock of any competition that has any value. If they get disqualified for illegal cars that is good for the sport because it shows it has legit rule enforcers, if they dont get disqualified and the cars are illegal that would lose the sport credibility and damage it long term.
[B]Agreed, the rules are the rules. However, if they did break them, intentionally or not, the disqualifications wouldn't be a good thing even if it does mean Petter advances. Even if they didn't mean to cheat, it's not good for the sport - races should be settled on the course. [/B][/QUOTE]
You cant have your cake and eat it. Strickly aplied rules are the bedrock of any competition that has any value. If they get disqualified for illegal cars that is good for the sport because it shows it has legit rule enforcers, if they dont get disqualified and the cars are illegal that would lose the sport credibility and damage it long term.
| Jfrankon | 05-18-2004 09:25 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]You cant have your cake and eat it. Strickly aplied rules are the bedrock of any competition that has any value. If they get disqualified for illegal cars that is good for the sport because it shows it has legit rule enforcers, if they dont get disqualified and the cars are illegal that would lose the sport credibility and damage it long term. [/B][/QUOTE]
Agreed. However, I do feel bad for the drivers/co-drivers if this goes through. They gave it their all, and I'm sure they had no previous knowledge that their water pumps weren't legit.
On the flip side...I would love to see Gronholm blow a gasket! He is a great driver, but his attitude and demeanor suck the big one. He is the absolute worst spokesperson for Peugeot and the WRC. One serious stick is up his arse! :lol:
[B]You cant have your cake and eat it. Strickly aplied rules are the bedrock of any competition that has any value. If they get disqualified for illegal cars that is good for the sport because it shows it has legit rule enforcers, if they dont get disqualified and the cars are illegal that would lose the sport credibility and damage it long term. [/B][/QUOTE]
Agreed. However, I do feel bad for the drivers/co-drivers if this goes through. They gave it their all, and I'm sure they had no previous knowledge that their water pumps weren't legit.
On the flip side...I would love to see Gronholm blow a gasket! He is a great driver, but his attitude and demeanor suck the big one. He is the absolute worst spokesperson for Peugeot and the WRC. One serious stick is up his arse! :lol:
| jesse370 | 05-19-2004 08:46 AM |
Yeah I feel bad for the drivers, BUT I'm sure the same post race checks go on after every event.....So why did these illegal water pumps end up on the cars in just this rally? Seems kinda odd to me, I could see at maybe the first rally of the season but we are getting close to the midpoint of things now. If they were illegal regardless of if the drivers knew or not, they should be excluded. the teams should know better then trying to do that!
And I agree with john, the rules are the rules. They don't apply to just some parts or teams. Every other team used the proper parts what makes them so special?
And I agree with john, the rules are the rules. They don't apply to just some parts or teams. Every other team used the proper parts what makes them so special?
| CirrusWRX | 05-19-2004 09:33 AM |
Am I totally retarded, or do I remember Immerstat Star of the Rally being one of Peugot's mechanics for "fixing the over heating problem of the car by replacing the water pump??"
I may be TOTALLY off base on this, but I remember specifically the "Star of the Rally" being a Peugot mechanic - that I'm positive about. But I swore it was given to him for solving the mystery of the overheating.
These teams no better than to try and cheat, so it is MY "theory" that the water pump thing happened purely by accident. As was mentioned, the four cars that are under investigation are all virtually the same engine configuration. Can you guys see some mechanic say, "Hey - this is why it's overheating - do this to fix it" - all of them do it, and voila: at the HIGHEST HEAT RALLY yet this year, where heat will undoubtedly be an issue, the cars run flawlessly.
Likewise, I can only imagine some person saying, "Yo ding dong - we can't change the water pump - that's in the rules..." Therefore, I think it has to be one of two things:
1. They replaced the water pump as an experiment, didn't get a chance to replace it back, somebody either forgot about it, or they almost thought they could get away with it since it's not that big of a deal.
OR
(I like this bit of random thought better...)
2. Some mechanic MODIFIED the homologated water pump successfully, and ran it, and it WORKED BETTER. Thus, the original fear is that "Oh no - this is a different water pump" but perhaps somewhere in the rules, teams are allowed to MODIFY items such as these to adapt them to work better?
This is just random utterance of stupidity coming from me, so flame away! :banana:
We'll find out the real truth of it today!!!
I may be TOTALLY off base on this, but I remember specifically the "Star of the Rally" being a Peugot mechanic - that I'm positive about. But I swore it was given to him for solving the mystery of the overheating.
These teams no better than to try and cheat, so it is MY "theory" that the water pump thing happened purely by accident. As was mentioned, the four cars that are under investigation are all virtually the same engine configuration. Can you guys see some mechanic say, "Hey - this is why it's overheating - do this to fix it" - all of them do it, and voila: at the HIGHEST HEAT RALLY yet this year, where heat will undoubtedly be an issue, the cars run flawlessly.
Likewise, I can only imagine some person saying, "Yo ding dong - we can't change the water pump - that's in the rules..." Therefore, I think it has to be one of two things:
1. They replaced the water pump as an experiment, didn't get a chance to replace it back, somebody either forgot about it, or they almost thought they could get away with it since it's not that big of a deal.
OR
(I like this bit of random thought better...)
2. Some mechanic MODIFIED the homologated water pump successfully, and ran it, and it WORKED BETTER. Thus, the original fear is that "Oh no - this is a different water pump" but perhaps somewhere in the rules, teams are allowed to MODIFY items such as these to adapt them to work better?
This is just random utterance of stupidity coming from me, so flame away! :banana:
We'll find out the real truth of it today!!!
| pio!pio! | 05-19-2004 12:28 PM |
The Peugeot mechanic got the award for solving their past power steering problem (maybe extra hose clamps?!!? :D:D)
| datageek | 05-19-2004 12:58 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by CirrusWRX [/i]
[B]Am I totally retarded, or do I remember Immerstat Star of the Rally being one of Peugot's mechanics for "fixing the over heating problem of the car by replacing the water pump??" [/B][/QUOTE]
Peugeot's mechanics did get the Star of the Rally award, though the reason stated was because of their work solving the power steering problems. Or at least that's what the article on wrc.com says: [url]http://www.wrc.com/News.aspx?PO_ID=3153&flash=False&lang=en_GB[/url]
[B]Am I totally retarded, or do I remember Immerstat Star of the Rally being one of Peugot's mechanics for "fixing the over heating problem of the car by replacing the water pump??" [/B][/QUOTE]
Peugeot's mechanics did get the Star of the Rally award, though the reason stated was because of their work solving the power steering problems. Or at least that's what the article on wrc.com says: [url]http://www.wrc.com/News.aspx?PO_ID=3153&flash=False&lang=en_GB[/url]
| datageek | 05-19-2004 01:39 PM |
Worldrallynews says that the FIA did not certified the results from Cyprus today. Peugeot has been told to appear at a "meeting" on May 26 (one week from today). Citreon wasn't asked to appear, so it sounds like it's only the Peugeots who are under question now.
| CirrusWRX | 05-19-2004 03:01 PM |
Ahh yes - how stupid of me to forget the power steering problems. As if Gronholm's facial expression isn't tense enough while driving, when he was running w/o power steering, THAT was a sight to be seen!!
| SlideWRX | 05-24-2004 03:19 PM |
Water Pump Update: Citroen is cleared, Wednesday the results for Peugot will be announced.
Tom
Tom
| DonA | 05-24-2004 10:51 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jesse370[/i]
[B] So why did these illegal water pumps end up on the cars in just this rally? Seems kinda odd to me, I could see at maybe the first rally of the season but we are getting close to the midpoint of things now. [/B][/QUOTE]
Because Cyprus is a HOT & S-L-O-W Rally that tests the cooling systems to the limit!
The Cars are spec'd to each event, Cyprus requires special attention to engine cooling
in contrast a rally like Finland is blinding fast so plenty of air gets into the radiator thus cooling is not as big an issue.
Actually the cars get plenty of air period in Finland :p
[B] So why did these illegal water pumps end up on the cars in just this rally? Seems kinda odd to me, I could see at maybe the first rally of the season but we are getting close to the midpoint of things now. [/B][/QUOTE]
Because Cyprus is a HOT & S-L-O-W Rally that tests the cooling systems to the limit!
The Cars are spec'd to each event, Cyprus requires special attention to engine cooling
in contrast a rally like Finland is blinding fast so plenty of air gets into the radiator thus cooling is not as big an issue.
Actually the cars get plenty of air period in Finland :p
| DonA | 05-24-2004 11:09 PM |
Found this on another forum I frequent
"Marcus had the aluminium part of the waterpump(not the other 3, who had plastic...)
He says that Peugeot tested engine part during the Cyprus rally on Marcus car, and that the new part would have had broken the plastic waterpump, so they have put an aluminium part instead in the waterpump!!!
If it's true, Peugeot did really a stupid thing!!!!
They should have tested the new engine cooling part and the aluminium part in their extra-testing rather than in rally, and then made homologated the part for the next rallies!!!"
It seems to be somthing with the material of part of the waterpump.
Another credible source said both Pug's will be DQ'ed on wednesday
:alien:
"Marcus had the aluminium part of the waterpump(not the other 3, who had plastic...)
He says that Peugeot tested engine part during the Cyprus rally on Marcus car, and that the new part would have had broken the plastic waterpump, so they have put an aluminium part instead in the waterpump!!!
If it's true, Peugeot did really a stupid thing!!!!
They should have tested the new engine cooling part and the aluminium part in their extra-testing rather than in rally, and then made homologated the part for the next rallies!!!"
It seems to be somthing with the material of part of the waterpump.
Another credible source said both Pug's will be DQ'ed on wednesday
:alien:
| datageek | 05-25-2004 12:00 PM |
From World Rally News:
[I]Impeller material may settle Cyprus
Peugeot has declined to make any official comment, but reliable sources believe that the works 307s were fitted with different water pump impellers than the works Xsaras and that the difference could hand the Cyprus Rally to Sebastien Loeb and Citroen.
Loeb finished second on stage times to Marcus Gronholm and Peugeot in Cyprus. The results remain provisional, pending another meeting of the stewards to discuss the legality of the water pumps on May 26. It seems that while the Xsaras had metal impellers, the 307s used plastic. Both cars use the XU7 engine. World Rally Car rules stipulate standard water pumps. Peugeot must therefore demonstrate that the impellers were standard or risk exclusion.
A number of unsubstantiated theories are circulating. They include the possibility of a paperwork error, in which the Peugeots used a standard pump, but not the one specified in the homologation papers. The extraordinary possibility has also been raised that while standard XU7 water pumps have metal, all replacements are fitted with plastic impellers. If so, this might constitute a defence: homologation rules provide for VF options, or the use of different parts from different suppliers. If both pumps are deemed to be standard, the stewards face an awkward decision.
Citroen has made no formal comment, but a source said that no specification changes are planned for the Acropolis Rally next week, adding weight to the theory that Citroen will be officially cleared on Wednesday.[/I]
[I]Impeller material may settle Cyprus
Peugeot has declined to make any official comment, but reliable sources believe that the works 307s were fitted with different water pump impellers than the works Xsaras and that the difference could hand the Cyprus Rally to Sebastien Loeb and Citroen.
Loeb finished second on stage times to Marcus Gronholm and Peugeot in Cyprus. The results remain provisional, pending another meeting of the stewards to discuss the legality of the water pumps on May 26. It seems that while the Xsaras had metal impellers, the 307s used plastic. Both cars use the XU7 engine. World Rally Car rules stipulate standard water pumps. Peugeot must therefore demonstrate that the impellers were standard or risk exclusion.
A number of unsubstantiated theories are circulating. They include the possibility of a paperwork error, in which the Peugeots used a standard pump, but not the one specified in the homologation papers. The extraordinary possibility has also been raised that while standard XU7 water pumps have metal, all replacements are fitted with plastic impellers. If so, this might constitute a defence: homologation rules provide for VF options, or the use of different parts from different suppliers. If both pumps are deemed to be standard, the stewards face an awkward decision.
Citroen has made no formal comment, but a source said that no specification changes are planned for the Acropolis Rally next week, adding weight to the theory that Citroen will be officially cleared on Wednesday.[/I]
| Patrick L | 05-25-2004 01:43 PM |
[url]http://rally.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/040524170105.shtml[/url]
| DonA | 05-25-2004 02:36 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Top_Dog [/i]
[B][url]http://rally.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/040524170105.shtml[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
It has been said this news was premature due to no "Official" statment one way or the other from FIA...however I think it will be true
[B][url]http://rally.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/040524170105.shtml[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
It has been said this news was premature due to no "Official" statment one way or the other from FIA...however I think it will be true
| Patrick L | 05-25-2004 11:24 PM |
We will find out tomorrow.
| rupertberr | 05-26-2004 10:08 AM |
Peugeot Disqualified!
�
�
Marcus drops to fourth in the championship!
[url]http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=27485&s=8[/url]
[url]http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=27485&s=8[/url]
| skope | 05-26-2004 10:50 AM |
[QUOTE][B]Peugeot excluded from Cyprus[/B]
Gronholm loses win after water pump is deemed not to conform to technical rules
The FIA has excluded the Peugeot 307 WRCs of Marcus Gronholm and Harri Rovanpera from the results of the recent Cyprus Rally, because of an irregularity with their water pumps. Gronholm won the event on the road, and Rovanpera came in fifth. Sebastien Loeb now takes the win and WRC points lead.
Peugeot has the right to appeal against the decision, but for the moment the win goes to Citroen's Loeb. The Xsara WRCs of Loeb and team-mate Carlos Sainz were also subject to an investigation into the legality of their water pumps, but the FIA has now announced that the Citroen parts do conform to the rules.
The ruling also drops Gronholm from the head of the championship standings down to fourth place, behind Loeb, Markko Martin and Petter Solberg. It will also make it extremely hard for Peugeot to rejoin the battle for the manufacturers' title, in which it had been in contention with Ford and Citroen and well ahead of Subaru.
It is not yet clear whether Peugeot intends to appeal against the decision, but it has always insisted that the 307 � for which Cyprus would have been a maiden win � is legal.
[/QUOTE]
[B][U]World Rally Championship standings[/B][/U]
[B]Drivers[/B]
Sebastien Loeb 35 Points
Markko Martin 34 Points
Petter Solberg 28 Points
Marcus Gronholm 24 Points
Carlos Sainz 19 Points
Fran�ois Duval 14 Points
Mikko Hirvonen 10 Points
Janne Tuohino 8 Points
Harri Rovanpera 4 Points
Freddy Loix 4 Points
Gilles Panizzi 4 Points
Hening Solberg 3 Points
Jussi Valimaki 2 Points
Daniel Carlsson 2 Points
Alistair Ginley 2 Points
Olivier Burri 1 Point
Miguel Campos 1 Point
[B]Constructors[/B]
Ford 55 Points
Citro�n 54 Points
Subaru 40 Points
Peugeot 33 Points
Mitsubishi 5 Points
Gronholm loses win after water pump is deemed not to conform to technical rules
The FIA has excluded the Peugeot 307 WRCs of Marcus Gronholm and Harri Rovanpera from the results of the recent Cyprus Rally, because of an irregularity with their water pumps. Gronholm won the event on the road, and Rovanpera came in fifth. Sebastien Loeb now takes the win and WRC points lead.
Peugeot has the right to appeal against the decision, but for the moment the win goes to Citroen's Loeb. The Xsara WRCs of Loeb and team-mate Carlos Sainz were also subject to an investigation into the legality of their water pumps, but the FIA has now announced that the Citroen parts do conform to the rules.
The ruling also drops Gronholm from the head of the championship standings down to fourth place, behind Loeb, Markko Martin and Petter Solberg. It will also make it extremely hard for Peugeot to rejoin the battle for the manufacturers' title, in which it had been in contention with Ford and Citroen and well ahead of Subaru.
It is not yet clear whether Peugeot intends to appeal against the decision, but it has always insisted that the 307 � for which Cyprus would have been a maiden win � is legal.
[/QUOTE]
[B][U]World Rally Championship standings[/B][/U]
[B]Drivers[/B]
Sebastien Loeb 35 Points
Markko Martin 34 Points
Petter Solberg 28 Points
Marcus Gronholm 24 Points
Carlos Sainz 19 Points
Fran�ois Duval 14 Points
Mikko Hirvonen 10 Points
Janne Tuohino 8 Points
Harri Rovanpera 4 Points
Freddy Loix 4 Points
Gilles Panizzi 4 Points
Hening Solberg 3 Points
Jussi Valimaki 2 Points
Daniel Carlsson 2 Points
Alistair Ginley 2 Points
Olivier Burri 1 Point
Miguel Campos 1 Point
[B]Constructors[/B]
Ford 55 Points
Citro�n 54 Points
Subaru 40 Points
Peugeot 33 Points
Mitsubishi 5 Points
| Jfrankon | 05-26-2004 11:30 AM |
I think I can hear Gronholm's head cracking/exploding right now!!:lol: :eek:
| bemani | 05-26-2004 02:02 PM |
Cheaters!
| DonA | 05-26-2004 02:09 PM |
Peugeot choose not to appeal
[url]http://rally.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/040526195311.shtml[/url]
Disappointing situation for Peugeot
t is with profound disappointment that Team Peugeot Total learnt today of the stewards' decision to exclude Marcus Gr�nholm and Harri Rovanper� from the results of the Cyprus Rally.
Although Peugeot Sport presented official documents certifying that the water pump used was effectively built using standard parts fitted to the homologated engine, the stewards judged that the component in question did not comply with the regulations. Peugeot Sport's good faith was not questioned but was not sufficient to convince the stewards.
Peugeot Sport will not appeal against this decision and, to put this disappointment behind them, the team, Marcus and Harri will now focus all their energy on the next rallies of the 2004 World Rally Championship.
[url]http://rally.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/040526195311.shtml[/url]
Disappointing situation for Peugeot
t is with profound disappointment that Team Peugeot Total learnt today of the stewards' decision to exclude Marcus Gr�nholm and Harri Rovanper� from the results of the Cyprus Rally.
Although Peugeot Sport presented official documents certifying that the water pump used was effectively built using standard parts fitted to the homologated engine, the stewards judged that the component in question did not comply with the regulations. Peugeot Sport's good faith was not questioned but was not sufficient to convince the stewards.
Peugeot Sport will not appeal against this decision and, to put this disappointment behind them, the team, Marcus and Harri will now focus all their energy on the next rallies of the 2004 World Rally Championship.
| Dr. WOT | 05-26-2004 03:42 PM |
More points for Petter!! :banana: Must be nice for Seb to get one back after having his win in Monte 2001 taken away.
| cdvma | 05-26-2004 04:25 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jfrankon[/i]
[B] I think I can hear Gronholm's head cracking/exploding right now!!:lol: :eek: [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep. He has been complaining about the car and its reliability...now he wins an event and praises the team for being so much better and they screw up the water pump. I'd be rolling heads if I were him or looking for a new team.
[B] I think I can hear Gronholm's head cracking/exploding right now!!:lol: :eek: [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep. He has been complaining about the car and its reliability...now he wins an event and praises the team for being so much better and they screw up the water pump. I'd be rolling heads if I were him or looking for a new team.
| Night Kid | 05-26-2004 10:55 PM |
wow, that really sucks for Marcus.
| Thumper23 | 05-26-2004 11:05 PM |
I just read about this
Marcus I'm sure is looking to kill somebody
Marcus I'm sure is looking to kill somebody
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