| Dussander | 09-08-2005 09:44 AM |
Belgian GP
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So the questions isn't "will McLaren get a 1/2" but "what will happen to stop them from a 1/2?" Also, 60% chance of rain on Sunday. It seems like they have been teasing us with rain all year though, so, I'm not going to get too excited.
Montoya gets a new engine (along with BAR and probably some other people), but I'm wondering if they will give him the new one like the one that broke for Kimi in Monza practice, or if they will just give him the safe old one.
I'm going to guess they will finish in the McLaren > Renault > Toyota order, but I'm not sure if Williams or maybe BAR will be next. I have given up all hope on Ferrari for Spa, but Montazum.(too long) claims they will WIN at least one of the last 3 races after they get some new magic tires.
Also, I really wish they would settle the Button thing so everyone can get their drive. I'm hoping the Red Bull USA team is true and they announce it this weekend. The Red Bull press releases are the best. They party HARD, and they drive ok as well. :)
Montoya gets a new engine (along with BAR and probably some other people), but I'm wondering if they will give him the new one like the one that broke for Kimi in Monza practice, or if they will just give him the safe old one.
I'm going to guess they will finish in the McLaren > Renault > Toyota order, but I'm not sure if Williams or maybe BAR will be next. I have given up all hope on Ferrari for Spa, but Montazum.(too long) claims they will WIN at least one of the last 3 races after they get some new magic tires.
Also, I really wish they would settle the Button thing so everyone can get their drive. I'm hoping the Red Bull USA team is true and they announce it this weekend. The Red Bull press releases are the best. They party HARD, and they drive ok as well. :)
| artkevin | 09-08-2005 09:55 AM |
I agree with the Merc>Renault line up for sure. Like the last few races only a problem or mistake can keep them from tying up the 1st 4 spots. I hope they JPM a "old" engine. Speed is not their problem so there should be no need for extra hp only extra reliability.
I too hope Red Bull USA gets the nod. Everything seems to be pointing in this direction and seems to be on the up and up.
I too hope Red Bull USA gets the nod. Everything seems to be pointing in this direction and seems to be on the up and up.
| TimStevens | 09-08-2005 12:10 PM |
The Red Bull USA thing is very interesting... it could be cool, or it could be a disaster. Sure, Speed would be guaranteed a seat... but would it be in last year's Minardi with a de-tuned engine?
Anyway, I hope they get a better paint job than the A1 guys :D
[img]http://www.a1gp.com/gallery/large/19-deh0524au117.jpg[/img]
:rolleyes:
Anyway, I hope they get a better paint job than the A1 guys :D
[img]http://www.a1gp.com/gallery/large/19-deh0524au117.jpg[/img]
:rolleyes:
| meebs | 09-08-2005 12:11 PM |
I'm really torn on this one. I have wanted Kimi to take the Championship from day 1, but Alonso has really earned it this year.
| artkevin | 09-08-2005 12:23 PM |
[QUOTE=TimStevens]The Red Bull USA thing is very interesting... it could be cool, or it could be a disaster. Sure, Speed would be guaranteed a seat... but would it be in last year's Minardi with a de-tuned engine?
Anyway, I hope they get a better paint job than the A1 guys :D
:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
The most recent thing I have heard is that its supposed to be this years Red Bull Chassis with the detuned V-10 since it is already set up for Cosworth Power. I think the major hurddle would be for it to be seen as a fully capable team on its own. Even thought it would be a "Jr." team for it to take hold it would have to be seen as at least capable of winning. Tech, money and talent wise IMO.
Anyway, I hope they get a better paint job than the A1 guys :D
:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
The most recent thing I have heard is that its supposed to be this years Red Bull Chassis with the detuned V-10 since it is already set up for Cosworth Power. I think the major hurddle would be for it to be seen as a fully capable team on its own. Even thought it would be a "Jr." team for it to take hold it would have to be seen as at least capable of winning. Tech, money and talent wise IMO.
| meebs | 09-08-2005 02:30 PM |
[QUOTE=artkevin]The most recent thing I have heard is that its supposed to be this years Red Bull Chassis with the detuned V-10 since it is already set up for Cosworth Power. I think the major hurddle would be for it to be seen as a fully capable team on its own. Even thought it would be a "Jr." team for it to take hold it would have to be seen as at least capable of winning. Tech, money and talent wise IMO.[/QUOTE]
And how is that any different than the current state of Minardi? :)
And how is that any different than the current state of Minardi? :)
| TimStevens | 09-08-2005 02:39 PM |
Speaking of Red Bull, here's their Spa preview:
[quote]
There are three essentials you need to survive a weekend in the Ardennes, Belgium�s own Redneck Region: a sense of humour, an umbrella and excellent bladder control; the latter because of the seemingly endless queues for the toilets at the Spa-Francorchamps circuit. For a spa town famous as a place to �take the waters� it is terribly ill equipped for getting rid of them.
# The weather is always the main talking point here and this is how to tell what the forecast will be: If you stand in the Spa paddock and cannot see the trees, it is raining.
# If you stand in the Spa paddock and can see the trees, it will start raining soon.
# If the cows in the field near the circuit are standing up, then it might stay dry for half an hour.
# If the cows are lying down it is raining.
# If the cows are lying down with their legs in the air, they are dead cows.
Other interesting facts about Belgium ��� ��� ���� � ������ ���� ������ ������ ��� ������ ���������� ������ ���� ��� ��� ���� ������ ������ ��� ������ ���������� ������ ���� ���� ����� ���� ��� ��� ����� ������
[/quote]
[quote]
There are three essentials you need to survive a weekend in the Ardennes, Belgium�s own Redneck Region: a sense of humour, an umbrella and excellent bladder control; the latter because of the seemingly endless queues for the toilets at the Spa-Francorchamps circuit. For a spa town famous as a place to �take the waters� it is terribly ill equipped for getting rid of them.
# The weather is always the main talking point here and this is how to tell what the forecast will be: If you stand in the Spa paddock and cannot see the trees, it is raining.
# If you stand in the Spa paddock and can see the trees, it will start raining soon.
# If the cows in the field near the circuit are standing up, then it might stay dry for half an hour.
# If the cows are lying down it is raining.
# If the cows are lying down with their legs in the air, they are dead cows.
Other interesting facts about Belgium ��� ��� ���� � ������ ���� ������ ������ ��� ������ ���������� ������ ���� ��� ��� ���� ������ ������ ��� ������ ���������� ������ ���� ���� ����� ���� ��� ��� ����� ������
[/quote]
| artkevin | 09-08-2005 03:06 PM |
[QUOTE=meebs]And how is that any different than the current state of Minardi? :)[/QUOTE]
The chassis, resources and the money would be the 3 things that stick out in my head. :)
The chassis, resources and the money would be the 3 things that stick out in my head. :)
| kfoote | 09-08-2005 03:26 PM |
The best hope Ferrari has is if it starts out wet, dries uput, and there is a downpour 5 laps from the end. Then Barichelo might have a chance.
If it's dry and McLaren doesn't blow up, it will be Kimi, JPM, Alonso, Button, Fisichella, Coulthard, Sato, Trulli in the top 8.
If it's dry and McLaren doesn't blow up, it will be Kimi, JPM, Alonso, Button, Fisichella, Coulthard, Sato, Trulli in the top 8.
| Ferg | 09-08-2005 08:48 PM |
Thursday's press conference to tide everyone over.
[QUOTE]Thursday's Press Conference - Belgium
Thursday, 08 September 2005 14:02
Participating: Christian Klien (Red Bull), Ralf Schumacher (Toyota), Jenson Button (BAR-Honda), Fernando Alonso (Renault), Kimi Raikkonen (McLaren-Mercedes).
Q. Christian, this time last year you had a good race, 13th on the grid and finished sixth. What are you hoping for this time?
Christian Klien: Yeah, last year was a good race for me and also the first time I was in the points and I finished sixth so that was a fantastic race for me here in Spa and I am really looking forward to the race here. I have another opportunity to do a race for my team and I am hoping to get some points here as well.
Q. What do you expect from the next three races, are you hoping to race or do you think this is going to be it?
CK: I already thought in Hungary that it would be my last race this year but the team believed in me and showed that I did a good job for the team so I got another two races in Turkey and Monza and now another race here in Spa so hopefully we can do again a good job, maybe get some points, it would be fantastic to stay in front of BAR. For sure it will be difficult but we will try everything. Again, for the last three races everything is open and if I do a good job here I think it is possible to do another race.
Q. Ralf, you have a good record at this circuit, you have finished five times out of six, that seems pretty good.
Ralf Schumacher: I don't know. You know, it is a nice circuit, obviously, I have had good races, average races, and it is going to be interesting looking at the weather forecast, I think it is going to be an exciting weekend for us.
Q. Looking back at the start of the season, are you disappointed Toyota haven't won, because you had a very good start to the season?
RS: You could look at it that way or the other way. If you look at the previous seasons I think they went pretty successful, so looking at that it is great what the team have achieved so far, so I look at it that from that side.
Q. Jenson, you have been described as the key to the championship recently.
Jenson Button: Yeah, we didn't really show that in Monza did we! I think Monza was a very difficult circuit for us, with low downforce, for some reason the car just didn't work very well. But I think here the car should be working much better and for the next two races also. We have a new aero package in Japan so the next four races should be good and hopefully we will be getting a bit closer to these guys.
Q. And obviously you drive your own race.
JB: Yep. What else am I supposed to do?
Q. Well, as I said, you are the key to the championship, apparently.
JB: Well, we are not going to hold back and just let these two guys race for the championship, we are here to do the best job we can as well and I think it will spice it up a bit, hopefully, if we are quick enough.
Q. Now, you are going to be asked this on a regular basis so get used to it! The Williams and BAR situation, have any further meetings take place on that, has there been any progress, what about the suggestion that you might take two years off?
JB: Wow. That would be interesting. I don't know what I am going to do for two years! Um, we have talked and I think that it is going in the right direction.
Q. To your satisfaction, which means you stay at BAR?
JB: I think it is going in the right direction for both of us, you know. We both need to get this cleared up as soon as possible. We all want to get everything sorted out before the end of the year so that we can just concentrate on next season.
Q. Fernando, since we last met you have been awarded a major sports award in Spain, can you tell us a bit about it?
Fernando Alonso: Yeah, I think the award is, for a sportsman, the biggest we have in Spain and I the name is the "Prince of Asturias" award which is my city, my region. It is presented by the King of Spain on October 21 and I won this award for the sport in 2005, representing and doing a good example for the young people around the world. I am very surprised about this and very proud, for sure.
Q. This circuit hasn't been particularly good for Renault, in fact they have had one top six place since 1998, a third place. It was a bit the same at Monza, admittedly, but what are you expecting from this weekend?
FA: I think it will be good. Last year I was leading the race when I had an engine problem. So I think also last year the car was good here but we didn't finish, unfortunately, with an oil problem. So I think this year we are much more competitive and the podium is our target for this weekend and I am quite confident for the race. As Ralf said, I think the weather will be important this weekend but I hope to be lucky in this.
Q. Kimi, you won last year, front row in 2002 as well, you must be feeling pretty confident?
KR: I think so. I like this circuit a lot, the car is going well, I think this circuit suits our car better than many others so it should be okay.
Q. Anything found regarding the tyres last weekend, are you confident that will not happen again?
KR: I don't know really. I haven't spoken to the team since the race really but I think it was a one-off. I am not worried by the tyres. It was the same tyres as every other team, almost, I think, but I don't know the reason for that.
Questions From The Floor
Q. Fernando, the season is almost at an end and of course, you can be World Champion here. Is it possible not to think about it or are you totally concentrated on it?
FA: It is possible not to think (about it). I am concentrating on the race. I know it is very difficult to win the championship here because I need a Kimi retirement, basically, if I want to be a champion and I don't think that is going to happen. The McLarens are favourites to win the race so I think we will have to wait for more races.
Q. (Financial Times, Deutschland) Kimi, are you still thinking about the championship or have you given up?
KR: We haven't given up but everyone knows it is not going to be easy without any problems for Renault. Even if we win the last races it is not going to happen. I will do the best that I can. We will go race by race and try to win and then see what will happen at the end of the year.
Q. (Sud Deutsch Zeitung) Kimi, in normal day life if you had a car that let you down five times a year, what would you do with this car?
KR: I know we have been a bit unlucky in some races, but it is a good car still, it's very quick, we just need to make sure that we get rid of the reliability problems and I am 100 percent sure that we can work through that and for sure, next year, we should be strong again. It is just disappointing that the season hasn't gone as well as we hoped but that's racing.
Q. (Dan Knutson * National Speedsport News) Christian, the team has said that either you or Antonio will be the second driver next year. How confident are you that you will get the job?
CK: For sure, there is no decision yet but I think I did� before the season, let's put it this way, we said we would do 50-50 of the races and I have already done a lot more so it seems to me that the team have confidence in me and I think I have done a reasonably good job. I have finished nine races and in four of them I was in the points. And again. this weekend is an important race for me. I really like the circuit here, I did a good job last year here so I think that's a good reason to have a good finish here and then step by step to reach my target, to race for Red Bull next year as well.
Q. Fernando, do you feel more pressure from Spain after the award?
FA: No, no. I think it is the same pressure. I do my best every race and at the moment it's going OK. I have had good results in 2005 and I don't feel any more pressure. I have been leading the championship from the second race and I keep doing the best job possible at every race. Now we are so close to the finish, four races to go, I will keep the same confidence and motivation when I arrive at races. We are fighting both championships now, drivers and constructors, and I think every race is important and we have to finish on the podium at every race.
Q. (Andrea Cremonesi * Gazzetta dello Sport) Kimi, may I ask a comment about your manoeuvre because Fernando was not in agreement with you when you passed him. And what do you think tested Renault for this Grand Prix?
KR: I don't know whether they tested or not. You want to know something about the overtaking? I went straight but looking at the slow motion shot in the highlights after the race I saw that Fernando didn't exactly go the right way through the corner so maybe I could have gone away, just kept going and not let him past, but the rules are that you let the guy pass and it's okay. So he was in front of me again and I overtook him. That's racing.
Q. Fernando, maybe you can say what you thought about this manoeuvre?
FA: I said already in Monza. I said it there.
Q. (Associated Press) Attendance was down in Italy, sales are going badly here, for you drivers what can be done to make Formula One more attractive?
FA: I don't know, I think in Italy the grandstand was not full because Ferrari was not fighting for the title, but in Spain, three years ago there was no television coverage for the races. Now we have seven million people watching the race and Barcelona is completely full, so I think the people are moving from one country to another and I think Formula One is still the biggest event in the world.
JB: I think that in some places the attendance might be down but in others it's definitely up, for example, Spain and also Britain seemed to be pretty good this year and at the new circuit in Turkey. I think the attendance has very good at a lot of races this year. Maybe in a couple it has been down but I think overall it has probably been up.
Q. (Dan Knutson- National Speedsport News) Ralf, what does your brother Michael say about losing the title and not being at the top any more?
RS: Actually, we have never talked about motor racing that much and so we didn't do this year honestly, so far. So I can't tell you. Ask him!
Q. Fernando and Kimi, very little is actually known about your personal relationship. We know that in the old days, drivers fighting for the championship went out together and things like that, so when actually was the last time you talked to each other * maybe just the two of you in a room - have you ever done that before? Do you have anything in common?
FA: I'm always first to answer. I think, you know, with Kimi I have always had a good relationship, a lot of respect for each other. We raced in go-karts a couple of times, but in different categories because I think Kimi is one year older than me, and the last time we spoke about this is a long time ago probably, in a room together but we always say hello and bye bye and I think there's a lot of respect. I am really happy to fight with Kimi this year.
KR: I think Fernando said already everything. We met for sure for the first time in go-kart racing but it's the same for both us, we don't know much about each other, apart from racing, it is a good relationship between us but that is the way it is. We are not the closest friends but we have good respect for each other which is the main thing.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Thursday's Press Conference - Belgium
Thursday, 08 September 2005 14:02
Participating: Christian Klien (Red Bull), Ralf Schumacher (Toyota), Jenson Button (BAR-Honda), Fernando Alonso (Renault), Kimi Raikkonen (McLaren-Mercedes).
Q. Christian, this time last year you had a good race, 13th on the grid and finished sixth. What are you hoping for this time?
Christian Klien: Yeah, last year was a good race for me and also the first time I was in the points and I finished sixth so that was a fantastic race for me here in Spa and I am really looking forward to the race here. I have another opportunity to do a race for my team and I am hoping to get some points here as well.
Q. What do you expect from the next three races, are you hoping to race or do you think this is going to be it?
CK: I already thought in Hungary that it would be my last race this year but the team believed in me and showed that I did a good job for the team so I got another two races in Turkey and Monza and now another race here in Spa so hopefully we can do again a good job, maybe get some points, it would be fantastic to stay in front of BAR. For sure it will be difficult but we will try everything. Again, for the last three races everything is open and if I do a good job here I think it is possible to do another race.
Q. Ralf, you have a good record at this circuit, you have finished five times out of six, that seems pretty good.
Ralf Schumacher: I don't know. You know, it is a nice circuit, obviously, I have had good races, average races, and it is going to be interesting looking at the weather forecast, I think it is going to be an exciting weekend for us.
Q. Looking back at the start of the season, are you disappointed Toyota haven't won, because you had a very good start to the season?
RS: You could look at it that way or the other way. If you look at the previous seasons I think they went pretty successful, so looking at that it is great what the team have achieved so far, so I look at it that from that side.
Q. Jenson, you have been described as the key to the championship recently.
Jenson Button: Yeah, we didn't really show that in Monza did we! I think Monza was a very difficult circuit for us, with low downforce, for some reason the car just didn't work very well. But I think here the car should be working much better and for the next two races also. We have a new aero package in Japan so the next four races should be good and hopefully we will be getting a bit closer to these guys.
Q. And obviously you drive your own race.
JB: Yep. What else am I supposed to do?
Q. Well, as I said, you are the key to the championship, apparently.
JB: Well, we are not going to hold back and just let these two guys race for the championship, we are here to do the best job we can as well and I think it will spice it up a bit, hopefully, if we are quick enough.
Q. Now, you are going to be asked this on a regular basis so get used to it! The Williams and BAR situation, have any further meetings take place on that, has there been any progress, what about the suggestion that you might take two years off?
JB: Wow. That would be interesting. I don't know what I am going to do for two years! Um, we have talked and I think that it is going in the right direction.
Q. To your satisfaction, which means you stay at BAR?
JB: I think it is going in the right direction for both of us, you know. We both need to get this cleared up as soon as possible. We all want to get everything sorted out before the end of the year so that we can just concentrate on next season.
Q. Fernando, since we last met you have been awarded a major sports award in Spain, can you tell us a bit about it?
Fernando Alonso: Yeah, I think the award is, for a sportsman, the biggest we have in Spain and I the name is the "Prince of Asturias" award which is my city, my region. It is presented by the King of Spain on October 21 and I won this award for the sport in 2005, representing and doing a good example for the young people around the world. I am very surprised about this and very proud, for sure.
Q. This circuit hasn't been particularly good for Renault, in fact they have had one top six place since 1998, a third place. It was a bit the same at Monza, admittedly, but what are you expecting from this weekend?
FA: I think it will be good. Last year I was leading the race when I had an engine problem. So I think also last year the car was good here but we didn't finish, unfortunately, with an oil problem. So I think this year we are much more competitive and the podium is our target for this weekend and I am quite confident for the race. As Ralf said, I think the weather will be important this weekend but I hope to be lucky in this.
Q. Kimi, you won last year, front row in 2002 as well, you must be feeling pretty confident?
KR: I think so. I like this circuit a lot, the car is going well, I think this circuit suits our car better than many others so it should be okay.
Q. Anything found regarding the tyres last weekend, are you confident that will not happen again?
KR: I don't know really. I haven't spoken to the team since the race really but I think it was a one-off. I am not worried by the tyres. It was the same tyres as every other team, almost, I think, but I don't know the reason for that.
Questions From The Floor
Q. Fernando, the season is almost at an end and of course, you can be World Champion here. Is it possible not to think about it or are you totally concentrated on it?
FA: It is possible not to think (about it). I am concentrating on the race. I know it is very difficult to win the championship here because I need a Kimi retirement, basically, if I want to be a champion and I don't think that is going to happen. The McLarens are favourites to win the race so I think we will have to wait for more races.
Q. (Financial Times, Deutschland) Kimi, are you still thinking about the championship or have you given up?
KR: We haven't given up but everyone knows it is not going to be easy without any problems for Renault. Even if we win the last races it is not going to happen. I will do the best that I can. We will go race by race and try to win and then see what will happen at the end of the year.
Q. (Sud Deutsch Zeitung) Kimi, in normal day life if you had a car that let you down five times a year, what would you do with this car?
KR: I know we have been a bit unlucky in some races, but it is a good car still, it's very quick, we just need to make sure that we get rid of the reliability problems and I am 100 percent sure that we can work through that and for sure, next year, we should be strong again. It is just disappointing that the season hasn't gone as well as we hoped but that's racing.
Q. (Dan Knutson * National Speedsport News) Christian, the team has said that either you or Antonio will be the second driver next year. How confident are you that you will get the job?
CK: For sure, there is no decision yet but I think I did� before the season, let's put it this way, we said we would do 50-50 of the races and I have already done a lot more so it seems to me that the team have confidence in me and I think I have done a reasonably good job. I have finished nine races and in four of them I was in the points. And again. this weekend is an important race for me. I really like the circuit here, I did a good job last year here so I think that's a good reason to have a good finish here and then step by step to reach my target, to race for Red Bull next year as well.
Q. Fernando, do you feel more pressure from Spain after the award?
FA: No, no. I think it is the same pressure. I do my best every race and at the moment it's going OK. I have had good results in 2005 and I don't feel any more pressure. I have been leading the championship from the second race and I keep doing the best job possible at every race. Now we are so close to the finish, four races to go, I will keep the same confidence and motivation when I arrive at races. We are fighting both championships now, drivers and constructors, and I think every race is important and we have to finish on the podium at every race.
Q. (Andrea Cremonesi * Gazzetta dello Sport) Kimi, may I ask a comment about your manoeuvre because Fernando was not in agreement with you when you passed him. And what do you think tested Renault for this Grand Prix?
KR: I don't know whether they tested or not. You want to know something about the overtaking? I went straight but looking at the slow motion shot in the highlights after the race I saw that Fernando didn't exactly go the right way through the corner so maybe I could have gone away, just kept going and not let him past, but the rules are that you let the guy pass and it's okay. So he was in front of me again and I overtook him. That's racing.
Q. Fernando, maybe you can say what you thought about this manoeuvre?
FA: I said already in Monza. I said it there.
Q. (Associated Press) Attendance was down in Italy, sales are going badly here, for you drivers what can be done to make Formula One more attractive?
FA: I don't know, I think in Italy the grandstand was not full because Ferrari was not fighting for the title, but in Spain, three years ago there was no television coverage for the races. Now we have seven million people watching the race and Barcelona is completely full, so I think the people are moving from one country to another and I think Formula One is still the biggest event in the world.
JB: I think that in some places the attendance might be down but in others it's definitely up, for example, Spain and also Britain seemed to be pretty good this year and at the new circuit in Turkey. I think the attendance has very good at a lot of races this year. Maybe in a couple it has been down but I think overall it has probably been up.
Q. (Dan Knutson- National Speedsport News) Ralf, what does your brother Michael say about losing the title and not being at the top any more?
RS: Actually, we have never talked about motor racing that much and so we didn't do this year honestly, so far. So I can't tell you. Ask him!
Q. Fernando and Kimi, very little is actually known about your personal relationship. We know that in the old days, drivers fighting for the championship went out together and things like that, so when actually was the last time you talked to each other * maybe just the two of you in a room - have you ever done that before? Do you have anything in common?
FA: I'm always first to answer. I think, you know, with Kimi I have always had a good relationship, a lot of respect for each other. We raced in go-karts a couple of times, but in different categories because I think Kimi is one year older than me, and the last time we spoke about this is a long time ago probably, in a room together but we always say hello and bye bye and I think there's a lot of respect. I am really happy to fight with Kimi this year.
KR: I think Fernando said already everything. We met for sure for the first time in go-kart racing but it's the same for both us, we don't know much about each other, apart from racing, it is a good relationship between us but that is the way it is. We are not the closest friends but we have good respect for each other which is the main thing.[/QUOTE]
| Dussander | 09-09-2005 10:55 AM |
Most boring Friday practice EVER! :)
Wow, this is going to be a crazy weekend. Montoya had to change an engine (ALREADY!) but luckily, since he did not run on it, he doesn't get a penalty. I was hoping for a wet weather shootout, but everyone wimped out after Liuzzi's off. Sounds like tomorrow is going to be bad as well, which will make picking dry weather tires difficult.
Wow, this is going to be a crazy weekend. Montoya had to change an engine (ALREADY!) but luckily, since he did not run on it, he doesn't get a penalty. I was hoping for a wet weather shootout, but everyone wimped out after Liuzzi's off. Sounds like tomorrow is going to be bad as well, which will make picking dry weather tires difficult.
| artkevin | 09-09-2005 11:28 AM |
Liuzzi's crash would have kept me out to. That thing snapped hard left right right after he touched the binders. He looked completely helpless in it.
| TimStevens | 09-09-2005 11:44 AM |
That seems to happen a lot to the Red Bull guys. I know DC had an insta-180 in the car, and I think I've seen Klein do it too. Interesting.
| Dussander | 09-09-2005 12:01 PM |
Full wets may have been somewhat drive-able, but I imagine visibility would become an issue if more then one person went out. I would have stayed in as well, but damnit, that was some boring tv. :) They never even showed a full flying lap around the track. I was hoping they could show it from the first session footage, but they did not.
| bemani | 09-09-2005 12:29 PM |
Why didn't they at least put some Friday drivers out there? There's no risk in using the Friday car, and who knows, maybe it'll be just like this on Sunday too.
| meebs | 09-09-2005 04:33 PM |
OH WOW... It seems we are setting up for [size=36][b]INDY PART DEUX: REVENGE OF THE TEAM BOSSES[/b][/size]
| Wr4wrX | 09-09-2005 05:17 PM |
If it's not too wet on Sunday and everybody races, I think the top 8 will be something like this:
P1. Kimi
P2. JPM
P3. Alonso
P4. Fisi
P5. Button
P6. Trulli
P7. Webbo
P8. DC
P1. Kimi
P2. JPM
P3. Alonso
P4. Fisi
P5. Button
P6. Trulli
P7. Webbo
P8. DC
| BlazingEngine | 09-10-2005 11:58 AM |
I am not sure what this is called, other than cheap tactics, gosh i hate renault, look what they did to kimi in qualys:
Raikkonen frustrated by Renault gamesmanship.
Sat 10 Sep, 3:45 PM
Kimi Raikkonen has less fuel available for the Belgian Grand Prix than planned thanks to a crafty piece of gamesmanship by the Renault team, who used Giancarlo Fisichella to 'chase' the McLaren back to the pits during qualifying.
Advertisement
In normal circumstances, drivers go as slowly as possible on their return to the pits after qualifying runs in order to save fuel. The only proviso is that they can't go so slowly that they impede the next car - even just appearing in the driver's sights is deemed an infringement, and can result in a penalty.
Drivers have a minute in which to leave the pits at the start of their runs, and Fisichella left at the first possible opportunity. After a quick out lap, he crossed the line to start his qualifying lap only just after Kimi had finished his lap. The Finn was thus forced to complete the full lap at near racing speed in order to make sure that the Renault did not get close enough to draw a penalty. When Fisichella turned into the Bus Stop, the on-board camera clearly showed Kimi just ahead, ducking into the pit entry.
Over the long Spa lap, that meant he used a lot more fuel than planned - possibly enough to force him to pit a lap earlier than he would otherwise have done.
"You could call it gamesmanship, you could call it lots of things," McLaren's Martin Whitmarsh told Crash.net, "We've noticed it. Before he finished his flying lap, we knew where Fisichella was, we'd noticed how promptly they'd deployed their driver, so we knew that was coming.
"We wanted to ask Kimi about track conditions to feed to Juan Pablo, so [Renault's tactics] had two effects - it undoubtedly consumed a bit more fuel than he would ideally have done in that lap, and it kept him a little bit busy. However, I suspect he might have a little bit more fuel, despite that tactic…"
Ironically, Juan Pablo Montoya was next in line after Fernando Alonso, and could have repaid the compliment, but the team didn't take the opportunity.
"We could have responded immediately, and there were certainly elements in the team who thought we should do it," Whitmarsh revealed, "We could have deployed a hard-chasing car very quickly as well - we had the perfect opportunity to respond, but we chose not to quite go as hard as that. You've got to go out there to compete, and everyone's got to do what they feel comfortable with."
Hell, at least mclaren got the 1-2 and renault is 3 -5
Raikkonen frustrated by Renault gamesmanship.
Sat 10 Sep, 3:45 PM
Kimi Raikkonen has less fuel available for the Belgian Grand Prix than planned thanks to a crafty piece of gamesmanship by the Renault team, who used Giancarlo Fisichella to 'chase' the McLaren back to the pits during qualifying.
Advertisement
In normal circumstances, drivers go as slowly as possible on their return to the pits after qualifying runs in order to save fuel. The only proviso is that they can't go so slowly that they impede the next car - even just appearing in the driver's sights is deemed an infringement, and can result in a penalty.
Drivers have a minute in which to leave the pits at the start of their runs, and Fisichella left at the first possible opportunity. After a quick out lap, he crossed the line to start his qualifying lap only just after Kimi had finished his lap. The Finn was thus forced to complete the full lap at near racing speed in order to make sure that the Renault did not get close enough to draw a penalty. When Fisichella turned into the Bus Stop, the on-board camera clearly showed Kimi just ahead, ducking into the pit entry.
Over the long Spa lap, that meant he used a lot more fuel than planned - possibly enough to force him to pit a lap earlier than he would otherwise have done.
"You could call it gamesmanship, you could call it lots of things," McLaren's Martin Whitmarsh told Crash.net, "We've noticed it. Before he finished his flying lap, we knew where Fisichella was, we'd noticed how promptly they'd deployed their driver, so we knew that was coming.
"We wanted to ask Kimi about track conditions to feed to Juan Pablo, so [Renault's tactics] had two effects - it undoubtedly consumed a bit more fuel than he would ideally have done in that lap, and it kept him a little bit busy. However, I suspect he might have a little bit more fuel, despite that tactic…"
Ironically, Juan Pablo Montoya was next in line after Fernando Alonso, and could have repaid the compliment, but the team didn't take the opportunity.
"We could have responded immediately, and there were certainly elements in the team who thought we should do it," Whitmarsh revealed, "We could have deployed a hard-chasing car very quickly as well - we had the perfect opportunity to respond, but we chose not to quite go as hard as that. You've got to go out there to compete, and everyone's got to do what they feel comfortable with."
Hell, at least mclaren got the 1-2 and renault is 3 -5
| BlazingEngine | 09-10-2005 12:04 PM |
now all i want to see is jpm giving kimi 1st position and blocking off the renaults, team tactics, but i cant exactly say renault sint guilty of it either.
| Dussander | 09-10-2005 04:19 PM |
Renault will be 4 and 13th come the race. Juan mentioned taking the bus stop slowly because he had a gap (tiny one), so I'm wondering if maybe he was suppose to come in second and let Kimi run off from the front? I figure a 3 stop is out for this race so they are probably both on a 2 stop, and then probably have the same amount of full +1 lap for someone. If Kimi had one more lap of fuel then Juan, this maybe the reason why he would complain (see above) because they can not pull Kimi in on the same lap as Juan.
Anyway, should be an interesting race, rain or not.
Anyway, should be an interesting race, rain or not.
| finnRex | 09-10-2005 04:37 PM |
I would love to see JPM drop back and let Kimi take the lead. And JPM slow down the Renault's. Renault is taking advantage of every situation possible. Unfortunately, sportsmanship can fall by the wayside by doing so.
Mika(go Kimi!)
Mika(go Kimi!)
| ralliharri | 09-10-2005 05:10 PM |
Anybody watching the GP2 series? Some really exciting races, just wish they'd show the sat long race w/ mandatory pitstops. So hopefully it'll be a Finnish double win this weekend.
(go Kimi, go Heikki!!)
(go Kimi, go Heikki!!)
| REX8 | 09-10-2005 09:19 PM |
[QUOTE=finnRex]I would love to see JPM drop back and let Kimi take the lead. And JPM slow down the Renault's. Renault is taking advantage of every situation possible. Unfortunately, sportsmanship can fall by the wayside by doing so.
Mika(go Kimi!)[/QUOTE]
I think JPM will go all out. If he can stay ahead of Kimi, he will, at least until the end when the team can decide what to do. I doubt if he'll let him by early in the race, if not under pressure. He'll be willing to help IF Kimi is in a position to win, not before.
Mika(go Kimi!)[/QUOTE]
I think JPM will go all out. If he can stay ahead of Kimi, he will, at least until the end when the team can decide what to do. I doubt if he'll let him by early in the race, if not under pressure. He'll be willing to help IF Kimi is in a position to win, not before.
| finnRex | 09-10-2005 09:21 PM |
Heikki's commited as a test driver for Renault, isn't he? Or is it Sauber? I hope Nico does well too.
Mika
Mika
| Patrick Olsen | 09-11-2005 12:11 AM |
[QUOTE=BlazingEngine]I am not sure what this is called, other than cheap tactics, gosh i hate renault, look what they did to kimi in qualys:
Raikkonen frustrated by Renault gamesmanship.
Sat 10 Sep, 3:45 PM
Kimi Raikkonen has less fuel available for the Belgian Grand Prix than planned thanks to a crafty piece of gamesmanship by the Renault team, who used Giancarlo Fisichella to 'chase' the McLaren back to the pits during qualifying.
In normal circumstances, drivers go as slowly as possible on their return to the pits after qualifying runs in order to save fuel. The only proviso is that they can't go so slowly that they impede the next car - even just appearing in the driver's sights is deemed an infringement, and can result in a penalty.
[/QUOTE]
I think this press release is just gamesmanship on McLaren's part. What kind of "penalty" did BAR Honda get when Webber caught Sato on his qualifying lap a couple/few races back? As far as I know, zero. And Kimi wasn't the only one who was nearly caught up by the guy making his hot lap - I don't know who it was, but I remember seeing someone else ducking into the pits just ahead of the qualifier.
I hope it does rain, the change in conditions makes things so much more interesting.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
Raikkonen frustrated by Renault gamesmanship.
Sat 10 Sep, 3:45 PM
Kimi Raikkonen has less fuel available for the Belgian Grand Prix than planned thanks to a crafty piece of gamesmanship by the Renault team, who used Giancarlo Fisichella to 'chase' the McLaren back to the pits during qualifying.
In normal circumstances, drivers go as slowly as possible on their return to the pits after qualifying runs in order to save fuel. The only proviso is that they can't go so slowly that they impede the next car - even just appearing in the driver's sights is deemed an infringement, and can result in a penalty.
[/QUOTE]
I think this press release is just gamesmanship on McLaren's part. What kind of "penalty" did BAR Honda get when Webber caught Sato on his qualifying lap a couple/few races back? As far as I know, zero. And Kimi wasn't the only one who was nearly caught up by the guy making his hot lap - I don't know who it was, but I remember seeing someone else ducking into the pits just ahead of the qualifier.
I hope it does rain, the change in conditions makes things so much more interesting.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
| BlazingEngine | 09-11-2005 12:51 AM |
[QUOTE=finnRex]I would love to see JPM drop back and let Kimi take the lead. And JPM slow down the Renault's. Renault is taking advantage of every situation possible. Unfortunately, sportsmanship can fall by the wayside by doing so.
Mika(go Kimi!)[/QUOTE]
High Five(or should i say high-rev) to that
Mika(go Kimi!)[/QUOTE]
High Five(or should i say high-rev) to that
| BlazingEngine | 09-11-2005 12:54 AM |
[QUOTE=REX8]I think JPM will go all out. If he can stay ahead of Kimi, he will, at least until the end when the team can decide what to do. I doubt if he'll let him by early in the race, if not under pressure. He'll be willing to help IF Kimi is in a position to win, not before.[/QUOTE]
I pray/ almost know, that JPM is a decent man/excellent driver, and that he will deffinitely try and build a gap with the renault, but not Kimi. In other words, i think they will go flat out, and JPM will give Kimi the race near the end so the renaults have no chance. And i hope someone(ANYONE) comes in third, other than Alonso or a Renault.
Go Merc-Mclaren For Manufacturer
KIMI FOR WIN
I pray/ almost know, that JPM is a decent man/excellent driver, and that he will deffinitely try and build a gap with the renault, but not Kimi. In other words, i think they will go flat out, and JPM will give Kimi the race near the end so the renaults have no chance. And i hope someone(ANYONE) comes in third, other than Alonso or a Renault.
Go Merc-Mclaren For Manufacturer
KIMI FOR WIN
| Ferg | 09-11-2005 01:00 AM |
Seems a few of the Michelin teams are defecting over to Bridgestone for 06...
[QUOTE]Michelin Won't Supply Toyota
Saturday, 10 September 2005 17:53
Michelin has said it will not supply tyres to the Toyota team next year despite the Japanese squad claiming they have not signed a deal with Bridgestone yet.
"We will no longer supply Toyota or Williams," chairman Edouard Michelin told a news conference at the Belgian Grand Prix.
Toyota have already decided to switch to Bridgestone and said they are "in advanced negotiations" with the Japanese tyre supplier.
Michelin, who currently supply seven of the 10 teams, said already that they want fewer partners next year.
Williams have also switched to the Japanese manufacturer, who currently supply champions Ferrari, Jordan and Minardi.
Michelin have dominated the season so far, winning every race with the exception of the US Grand Prix that none of their teams started due to tyre safety concerns. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Bridgestone Confirms Williams Deal
Saturday, 10 September 2005 16:33
Bridgestone has confirmed that it has signed a multi-year agreement with the Williams team for the supply of tyres from 2006.
The Japanese company had already supplied Williams with tyres in 1999 and 2000, during a period of single tyre supplier status.
Williams have used Michelin tyres since the 2001 season.
"It is with great pleasure that I can now confirm that Bridgestone Motorsport and the Williams team have entered into a tyre supply partnership, to commence after the end of the current season," said Hiroshi Yasukawa, director of Bridgestone Motorsport.
"WilliamsF1 is one of the most experienced and respected teams competing in Formula One and I would like to thank Sir Frank Williams for his faith in our technological capabilities.
"Since entering Formula One in 1997, Bridgestone Motorsport has supplied the winning Constructors' and Drivers' Champions no fewer than seven times and we now look forward to working closely with Williams to help them achieve their goals in the future."[/QUOTE]
Which makes sense if you believe the following...
[QUOTE]Michelin Threatens to Pull Out of F1
By Tony Dodgins and Jonathan Noble Saturday, 10 September 2005 17:20
Michelin have warned that they may pull out of Formula One at the end of next year if the FIA goes ahead and introduces a control tyre, as Autosport-Atlas predicted last week.
In a press conference at the Belgian Grand Prix on Saturday, Michelin CEO Edouard Michelin reiterated his company's opposition to the possibility of F1 having a single tyre manufacturer from 2008 � and warned that it could lead the French company to turn their back on the sport as soon as the end of next year.
"If the control tyre is adopted, Michelin would seriously consider withdrawing from F1 competition," he said. "We could withdraw in 2008, but what about (before the start of) 2007? We will consider it very carefully and discuss the situation with our partner teams."
Michelin issued a statement at last weekend's Italian Grand Prix claiming that they believed the FIA's aims of reducing costs and improving safety by having a single tyre manufacturer in the sport could be achieved even with a tyre war.
The company have yet to have had a response from the FIA, and Michelin has asked for talks with the governing body to discuss the situation.
"We need the FIA to clarify the reasons for the single tyre," he added. "We have limited trust in the transparency and governance of the FIA. Sometimes we wonder if there is anything wrong by winning by fair means. We would like to raise these fundamental questions."
Michelin's frustrations at the F1 situation have been exacerbated by the fact that the company lost out to rivals Yokohama in a bid to land the tyre contract for the World Touring Car Championship next year.
"The WTCC contract for 2006 tyres was granted to Yokohama and this remains a mystery to us," added Michelin. "It was done a few days after Indianapolis. Was it for technical reasons? Was it for financial reason?
"We would like a clearer idea of the rules of the tender. What are the selection criteria. Will the FIA disclose them? This seems to me to be crucial."
Michelin explained that his company's decision to tender for the WTCC contract was for marketing reasons, and that he was against a control tyre in F1 because: "It is the pinnacle of the sport and it should be about competition in every field."
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Michelin Won't Supply Toyota
Saturday, 10 September 2005 17:53
Michelin has said it will not supply tyres to the Toyota team next year despite the Japanese squad claiming they have not signed a deal with Bridgestone yet.
"We will no longer supply Toyota or Williams," chairman Edouard Michelin told a news conference at the Belgian Grand Prix.
Toyota have already decided to switch to Bridgestone and said they are "in advanced negotiations" with the Japanese tyre supplier.
Michelin, who currently supply seven of the 10 teams, said already that they want fewer partners next year.
Williams have also switched to the Japanese manufacturer, who currently supply champions Ferrari, Jordan and Minardi.
Michelin have dominated the season so far, winning every race with the exception of the US Grand Prix that none of their teams started due to tyre safety concerns. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Bridgestone Confirms Williams Deal
Saturday, 10 September 2005 16:33
Bridgestone has confirmed that it has signed a multi-year agreement with the Williams team for the supply of tyres from 2006.
The Japanese company had already supplied Williams with tyres in 1999 and 2000, during a period of single tyre supplier status.
Williams have used Michelin tyres since the 2001 season.
"It is with great pleasure that I can now confirm that Bridgestone Motorsport and the Williams team have entered into a tyre supply partnership, to commence after the end of the current season," said Hiroshi Yasukawa, director of Bridgestone Motorsport.
"WilliamsF1 is one of the most experienced and respected teams competing in Formula One and I would like to thank Sir Frank Williams for his faith in our technological capabilities.
"Since entering Formula One in 1997, Bridgestone Motorsport has supplied the winning Constructors' and Drivers' Champions no fewer than seven times and we now look forward to working closely with Williams to help them achieve their goals in the future."[/QUOTE]
Which makes sense if you believe the following...
[QUOTE]Michelin Threatens to Pull Out of F1
By Tony Dodgins and Jonathan Noble Saturday, 10 September 2005 17:20
Michelin have warned that they may pull out of Formula One at the end of next year if the FIA goes ahead and introduces a control tyre, as Autosport-Atlas predicted last week.
In a press conference at the Belgian Grand Prix on Saturday, Michelin CEO Edouard Michelin reiterated his company's opposition to the possibility of F1 having a single tyre manufacturer from 2008 � and warned that it could lead the French company to turn their back on the sport as soon as the end of next year.
"If the control tyre is adopted, Michelin would seriously consider withdrawing from F1 competition," he said. "We could withdraw in 2008, but what about (before the start of) 2007? We will consider it very carefully and discuss the situation with our partner teams."
Michelin issued a statement at last weekend's Italian Grand Prix claiming that they believed the FIA's aims of reducing costs and improving safety by having a single tyre manufacturer in the sport could be achieved even with a tyre war.
The company have yet to have had a response from the FIA, and Michelin has asked for talks with the governing body to discuss the situation.
"We need the FIA to clarify the reasons for the single tyre," he added. "We have limited trust in the transparency and governance of the FIA. Sometimes we wonder if there is anything wrong by winning by fair means. We would like to raise these fundamental questions."
Michelin's frustrations at the F1 situation have been exacerbated by the fact that the company lost out to rivals Yokohama in a bid to land the tyre contract for the World Touring Car Championship next year.
"The WTCC contract for 2006 tyres was granted to Yokohama and this remains a mystery to us," added Michelin. "It was done a few days after Indianapolis. Was it for technical reasons? Was it for financial reason?
"We would like a clearer idea of the rules of the tender. What are the selection criteria. Will the FIA disclose them? This seems to me to be crucial."
Michelin explained that his company's decision to tender for the WTCC contract was for marketing reasons, and that he was against a control tyre in F1 because: "It is the pinnacle of the sport and it should be about competition in every field."
[/QUOTE]
| jigga | 09-11-2005 01:13 AM |
meh, imo, there are a few people in here crying over spilt milk... The rules are the rules, and the name of the game is to exploit them in any way possible to gain an advantage over the opposition.
What Renault did was cunning, and perhaps not something thought of by other teams at the time. I do get the impression that McLaren did not respond becuase they may not have had an idea until later on about the repercussions of Renault's move when it happened.
In the first race this year when Ferrari and a few other teams were not doing so well, what did they do? They simply parked their cars in the pits to save their engines for the next race. Was this the fair thing to do (as being in the name of competition?)? Nope.... Was it the smart thing to do in order to gain an edge for the next race? Hell yes.....
These guys are paid the big bux to figure out and exploit any possible loopholes there may be in the rule book, whether or not they have a direct or indirect effect on the results of the race.
To those who think that JPM will slow down the Renaults while Kimi gets away, I am not so sure. As soon as JPM is seen to be slowing down everyone else, I have a feeling that he will be black-flagged. Besides that, JPM just does not come across as the type to easily play second fiddle like Barichello has been doing over at Ferrari. If he was the type, we would have seen it over at Frank Williams' team (who is the KING of team orders aparently). I have the feeling that if JPM smells blood, he will go in for the kill..
Renault is taking advantage of every situation possible just as any other team that was in their position would. In the cut-throat world of F1, there appears to be little to no room for mercy toward the competition
just my 3 cents
What Renault did was cunning, and perhaps not something thought of by other teams at the time. I do get the impression that McLaren did not respond becuase they may not have had an idea until later on about the repercussions of Renault's move when it happened.
In the first race this year when Ferrari and a few other teams were not doing so well, what did they do? They simply parked their cars in the pits to save their engines for the next race. Was this the fair thing to do (as being in the name of competition?)? Nope.... Was it the smart thing to do in order to gain an edge for the next race? Hell yes.....
These guys are paid the big bux to figure out and exploit any possible loopholes there may be in the rule book, whether or not they have a direct or indirect effect on the results of the race.
To those who think that JPM will slow down the Renaults while Kimi gets away, I am not so sure. As soon as JPM is seen to be slowing down everyone else, I have a feeling that he will be black-flagged. Besides that, JPM just does not come across as the type to easily play second fiddle like Barichello has been doing over at Ferrari. If he was the type, we would have seen it over at Frank Williams' team (who is the KING of team orders aparently). I have the feeling that if JPM smells blood, he will go in for the kill..
Renault is taking advantage of every situation possible just as any other team that was in their position would. In the cut-throat world of F1, there appears to be little to no room for mercy toward the competition
just my 3 cents
| AndyRoo | 09-11-2005 05:02 AM |
[QUOTE=jigga]meh, imo, there are a few people in here crying over spilt milk... The rules are the rules, and the name of the game is to exploit them in any way possible to gain an advantage over the opposition.
What Renault did was cunning, and perhaps not something thought of by other teams at the time. I do get the impression that McLaren did not respond becuase they may not have had an idea until later on about the repercussions of Renault's move when it happened.
In the first race this year when Ferrari and a few other teams were not doing so well, what did they do? They simply parked their cars in the pits to save their engines for the next race. Was this the fair thing to do (as being in the name of competition?)? Nope.... Was it the smart thing to do in order to gain an edge for the next race? Hell yes.....
These guys are paid the big bux to figure out and exploit any possible loopholes there may be in the rule book, whether or not they have a direct or indirect effect on the results of the race.
To those who think that JPM will slow down the Renaults while Kimi gets away, I am not so sure. As soon as JPM is seen to be slowing down everyone else, I have a feeling that he will be black-flagged. Besides that, JPM just does not come across as the type to easily play second fiddle like Barichello has been doing over at Ferrari. If he was the type, we would have seen it over at Frank Williams' team (who is the KING of team orders aparently). I have the feeling that if JPM smells blood, he will go in for the kill..
Renault is taking advantage of every situation possible just as any other team that was in their position would. In the cut-throat world of F1, there appears to be little to no room for mercy toward the competition
just my 3 cents[/QUOTE]
it may have been legal and within the rules...but it just wasn't worth it. renault lost more then they gained here. maybe force kimi to pit 1 lap early and look like poor sports, just not worth it in this situation. the championships are all almost wrapped up as it is.
pray for rain!
- andrew
What Renault did was cunning, and perhaps not something thought of by other teams at the time. I do get the impression that McLaren did not respond becuase they may not have had an idea until later on about the repercussions of Renault's move when it happened.
In the first race this year when Ferrari and a few other teams were not doing so well, what did they do? They simply parked their cars in the pits to save their engines for the next race. Was this the fair thing to do (as being in the name of competition?)? Nope.... Was it the smart thing to do in order to gain an edge for the next race? Hell yes.....
These guys are paid the big bux to figure out and exploit any possible loopholes there may be in the rule book, whether or not they have a direct or indirect effect on the results of the race.
To those who think that JPM will slow down the Renaults while Kimi gets away, I am not so sure. As soon as JPM is seen to be slowing down everyone else, I have a feeling that he will be black-flagged. Besides that, JPM just does not come across as the type to easily play second fiddle like Barichello has been doing over at Ferrari. If he was the type, we would have seen it over at Frank Williams' team (who is the KING of team orders aparently). I have the feeling that if JPM smells blood, he will go in for the kill..
Renault is taking advantage of every situation possible just as any other team that was in their position would. In the cut-throat world of F1, there appears to be little to no room for mercy toward the competition
just my 3 cents[/QUOTE]
it may have been legal and within the rules...but it just wasn't worth it. renault lost more then they gained here. maybe force kimi to pit 1 lap early and look like poor sports, just not worth it in this situation. the championships are all almost wrapped up as it is.
pray for rain!
- andrew
| bal00 | 09-11-2005 06:05 AM |
Plenty of rain today. :)
Quite a few wrecks in the Mini Challenge and GP2 already...
Quite a few wrecks in the Mini Challenge and GP2 already...
| REX8 | 09-11-2005 09:58 AM |
That was crap...I can't believe it. Oh well, good to see that Kimi and JPM are at least getting along.
| finnRex | 09-11-2005 10:16 AM |
Good news, Kimi won. Bad news, Alonso came in second, and JPM got booted off the track thanks to Pizza boy.
Not-so-surprising results: Sato crashes into Michael and both are knocked out of the race. When they announced that Sato was going through the field rather quickly, I looked over at my fiancee and told her to wait 10-15 laps and he'll end up in the sand or in a wall. I overestimated Sato's skills, because 5 laps later he smashes into Michael. Guess I was wrong about the wall or sand, it was Michael. It was amusing to see Michael slap Sato over the head though...
Mika
Not-so-surprising results: Sato crashes into Michael and both are knocked out of the race. When they announced that Sato was going through the field rather quickly, I looked over at my fiancee and told her to wait 10-15 laps and he'll end up in the sand or in a wall. I overestimated Sato's skills, because 5 laps later he smashes into Michael. Guess I was wrong about the wall or sand, it was Michael. It was amusing to see Michael slap Sato over the head though...
Mika
| StuBeck | 09-11-2005 10:28 AM |
**** Pizzonia!
| finnRex | 09-11-2005 10:29 AM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck]**** Pizzonia![/QUOTE]
1234 FIF!!!!!
Mika
1234 FIF!!!!!
Mika
| BlazingEngine | 09-11-2005 10:55 AM |
DAMNIT JPM, you HAD THE ONE ,TWO!!!.
he just had to crash out and give alonso those two extra points. Only consolation is kimi still won and we r very close in the constructors
he just had to crash out and give alonso those two extra points. Only consolation is kimi still won and we r very close in the constructors
| REX8 | 09-11-2005 11:23 AM |
[QUOTE=BlazingEngine]DAMNIT JPM, you HAD THE ONE ,TWO!!!.
he just had to crash out and give alonso those two extra points. Only consolation is kimi still won and we r very close in the constructors[/QUOTE]
Oh come on, he got punted off by the delivery boy...nothing he could do...
But damn...I almost felt a tear come on
he just had to crash out and give alonso those two extra points. Only consolation is kimi still won and we r very close in the constructors[/QUOTE]
Oh come on, he got punted off by the delivery boy...nothing he could do...
But damn...I almost felt a tear come on
| sspicollo8 | 09-11-2005 12:04 PM |
[QUOTE=REX8]But damn...I almost felt a tear come on[/QUOTE]
Werd. I've been rootin for alonso all season, but I was really rooting for Kimi/JPM/McMerc this race. Hated to see that happen to JPM after driving such a good race.
I'm afraid I'm gonna turn into an all-out Button fan soon.
Werd. I've been rootin for alonso all season, but I was really rooting for Kimi/JPM/McMerc this race. Hated to see that happen to JPM after driving such a good race.
I'm afraid I'm gonna turn into an all-out Button fan soon.
| StuBeck | 09-11-2005 12:22 PM |
[QUOTE=BlazingEngine]DAMNIT JPM, you HAD THE ONE ,TWO!!!.
he just had to crash out and give alonso those two extra points. Only consolation is kimi still won and we r very close in the constructors[/QUOTE]
He didn't crash out, he was punted.
he just had to crash out and give alonso those two extra points. Only consolation is kimi still won and we r very close in the constructors[/QUOTE]
He didn't crash out, he was punted.
| REX8 | 09-11-2005 02:52 PM |
If Sato is getting a penalty, shouldn't Pizza boy get one too?
| Dussander | 09-11-2005 04:20 PM |
Here is Pizzonia's take on it:
[quote]With regards to the accident with Montoya, I was on dry tyres, and lapping quicker than him. He was quite slow maybe because his tyres were not good anymore or maybe he was just cruising to the end of the race. I thought he saw me and when he braked really early I thought he was trying to let me by. I put my car next to him but obviously he hadn�t seen me because he turned into his normal line and I couldn�t avoid the crash. I am sorry for him because I am not here to destroy anyone�s race. I destroyed my race too.[/quote]
I need to see video footage.
I am very sad.... but I did have a good day at the track myself, so...
Oh, what really sucks is that Montoya is going to have to go out 7th for qualy. It just seems retarded that you get penalized for the next race when someone punts you. Montoya and Michael got screwed by this one. So, Alonso only needs to get <= 4 points less then Kimi in the next race. I'm pretty sure he can handle that. So, if Kimi gets first, Alonso gets it for a 2nd or 3rd. I wonder if Juan gets a new engine now? Do you actually have to blow up the engine for that rule to take place, or was it just not finish? I really wanted Juan to win Interlagos again since that is the closest thing he has to a home race.
[quote]With regards to the accident with Montoya, I was on dry tyres, and lapping quicker than him. He was quite slow maybe because his tyres were not good anymore or maybe he was just cruising to the end of the race. I thought he saw me and when he braked really early I thought he was trying to let me by. I put my car next to him but obviously he hadn�t seen me because he turned into his normal line and I couldn�t avoid the crash. I am sorry for him because I am not here to destroy anyone�s race. I destroyed my race too.[/quote]
I need to see video footage.
I am very sad.... but I did have a good day at the track myself, so...
Oh, what really sucks is that Montoya is going to have to go out 7th for qualy. It just seems retarded that you get penalized for the next race when someone punts you. Montoya and Michael got screwed by this one. So, Alonso only needs to get <= 4 points less then Kimi in the next race. I'm pretty sure he can handle that. So, if Kimi gets first, Alonso gets it for a 2nd or 3rd. I wonder if Juan gets a new engine now? Do you actually have to blow up the engine for that rule to take place, or was it just not finish? I really wanted Juan to win Interlagos again since that is the closest thing he has to a home race.
| finnRex | 09-11-2005 04:25 PM |
[QUOTE=REX8]If Sato is getting a penalty, shouldn't Pizza boy get one too?[/QUOTE]
An appropriate penalty for Sato would be to lose his seat. That sucker can't drive...
I mean, yeah, he's in F1, but he doesn't belong.
Mika
An appropriate penalty for Sato would be to lose his seat. That sucker can't drive...
I mean, yeah, he's in F1, but he doesn't belong.
Mika
| BillT | 09-11-2005 05:18 PM |
[QUOTE=finnRex]An appropriate penalty for Sato would be to lose his seat. That sucker can't drive...
I mean, yeah, he's in F1, but he doesn't belong.
Mika[/QUOTE]
I totally agree. If I were a F1 driver, Sato would be the one guy I would not want behind me because you never know when he'll pull some bonehead move that'll get you punted off the track.
I mean, yeah, he's in F1, but he doesn't belong.
Mika[/QUOTE]
I totally agree. If I were a F1 driver, Sato would be the one guy I would not want behind me because you never know when he'll pull some bonehead move that'll get you punted off the track.
| bal00 | 09-11-2005 05:44 PM |
[IMG]http://www.itv-f1.com/ImageLibrary/34652_2.jpg[/IMG]
"Hello McFly!"
"Hello McFly!"
| Wr4wrX | 09-11-2005 06:06 PM |
[QUOTE=REX8]If Sato is getting a penalty, shouldn't Pizza boy get one too?[/QUOTE]
[URL=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/4235848.stm]Pizza boy fined.[/URL]
[URL=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/4235848.stm]Pizza boy fined.[/URL]
| BlazingEngine | 09-11-2005 06:37 PM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck]He didn't crash out, he was punted.[/QUOTE]
I understand he was not to blame, but im still soooo upset. SORRY JPM lol.
I understand he was not to blame, but im still soooo upset. SORRY JPM lol.
| StuBeck | 09-11-2005 07:40 PM |
[QUOTE=Dussander]Here is Pizzonia's take on it:
I need to see video footage.
I am very sad.... but I did have a good day at the track myself, so...
Oh, what really sucks is that Montoya is going to have to go out 7th for qualy. It just seems retarded that you get penalized for the next race when someone punts you. Montoya and Michael got screwed by this one. So, Alonso only needs to get <= 4 points less then Kimi in the next race. I'm pretty sure he can handle that. So, if Kimi gets first, Alonso gets it for a 2nd or 3rd. I wonder if Juan gets a new engine now? Do you actually have to blow up the engine for that rule to take place, or was it just not finish? I really wanted Juan to win Interlagos again since that is the closest thing he has to a home race.[/QUOTE]
What is hilarious about that is Pizzonia has no clue what actually happened. He was on intermediates, not dry tires.
I need to see video footage.
I am very sad.... but I did have a good day at the track myself, so...
Oh, what really sucks is that Montoya is going to have to go out 7th for qualy. It just seems retarded that you get penalized for the next race when someone punts you. Montoya and Michael got screwed by this one. So, Alonso only needs to get <= 4 points less then Kimi in the next race. I'm pretty sure he can handle that. So, if Kimi gets first, Alonso gets it for a 2nd or 3rd. I wonder if Juan gets a new engine now? Do you actually have to blow up the engine for that rule to take place, or was it just not finish? I really wanted Juan to win Interlagos again since that is the closest thing he has to a home race.[/QUOTE]
What is hilarious about that is Pizzonia has no clue what actually happened. He was on intermediates, not dry tires.
| TimStevens | 09-11-2005 07:50 PM |
Sure looked like dry tires to me on what was left of his car.
| bemani | 09-11-2005 08:28 PM |
Hey someone knows what's up with the tire change? I thought the only tire change is the change between dry and wet tires when it is allowed by weather change. So they can change out the the worn intermediate tires with new intermediate tires too? On top of that, they can refuel while doing the intermediate tire change? What happened to all the new tire rules?
Of yeah, f u sato and pizzonia.
Of yeah, f u sato and pizzonia.
| finnRex | 09-11-2005 08:44 PM |
I don't know. It seems that they lifted those two rules this weekend because of the weather. I guess they didn't want anyone flying off the track. :confused:
Mika
Mika
| Ferg | 09-11-2005 09:08 PM |
The intermediate tires can't last a whole race distance, especially one that gets drier like todays.
I feel cheated by this race for some reason. I think if Michael had been in it he certainly would have switced to dry tires at the second stop. That might have forced some of the other front runners to do the same. Scumacher at a wet/dry Spa with nothing to lose would have been fantastic. Thanks Taku.
I feel cheated by this race for some reason. I think if Michael had been in it he certainly would have switced to dry tires at the second stop. That might have forced some of the other front runners to do the same. Scumacher at a wet/dry Spa with nothing to lose would have been fantastic. Thanks Taku.
| Patrick Olsen | 09-12-2005 05:23 AM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck]What is hilarious about that is Pizzonia has no clue what actually happened. He was on intermediates, not dry tires.[/QUOTE]
Not so much, since the coverage clearly showed dry tires on his wrecked car being lifted off the track, and the commentators clearly said, "Well no wonder he got into Montoya, he was on dry tires!" I'm pretty sure the drivers know which tires they're running. :rolleyes:
[quote=Dussander]I need to see video footage.[/quote]
No kidding. As much as people rag on NASCAR, one thing I've gotta give them is [i]NASCAR knows how to cover a race!!![/i] One of the most crucial incidents of the race, an incident that has implications for how the ultra-tight constructor's championship is going to finish up this season, and the only footage they manage to show is of the two cars sliding off the track after the contact has already occurred?! What the hell kind of coverage is that?! :mad: Every damn car's got cameras on it, how about some onboard footage? NASCAR would have had onboard footage from both cars, a blimp cam, and, just for good measure, a shot from underneath one of the cars showing the suspension (not) moving. :) Or how about a shot from some other camera that might actually show something interesting so we can understand what happened? I imagine it has to do with the "world feed" BS, which is ummm, BS!
The other thing I wanted to see was what tires Ralf Schumacher was running at the end. He cracked off some crazy fast laps, which would lead me to believe he must have been on dry tires, but they never showed him. Hell, they never even showed the "Fastest Lap" graphic, we just had to rely on the commentators pointing out that Ralf had run a full 2sec faster than Kimi's previous "Fastest Lap". :rolleyes:
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
Not so much, since the coverage clearly showed dry tires on his wrecked car being lifted off the track, and the commentators clearly said, "Well no wonder he got into Montoya, he was on dry tires!" I'm pretty sure the drivers know which tires they're running. :rolleyes:
[quote=Dussander]I need to see video footage.[/quote]
No kidding. As much as people rag on NASCAR, one thing I've gotta give them is [i]NASCAR knows how to cover a race!!![/i] One of the most crucial incidents of the race, an incident that has implications for how the ultra-tight constructor's championship is going to finish up this season, and the only footage they manage to show is of the two cars sliding off the track after the contact has already occurred?! What the hell kind of coverage is that?! :mad: Every damn car's got cameras on it, how about some onboard footage? NASCAR would have had onboard footage from both cars, a blimp cam, and, just for good measure, a shot from underneath one of the cars showing the suspension (not) moving. :) Or how about a shot from some other camera that might actually show something interesting so we can understand what happened? I imagine it has to do with the "world feed" BS, which is ummm, BS!
The other thing I wanted to see was what tires Ralf Schumacher was running at the end. He cracked off some crazy fast laps, which would lead me to believe he must have been on dry tires, but they never showed him. Hell, they never even showed the "Fastest Lap" graphic, we just had to rely on the commentators pointing out that Ralf had run a full 2sec faster than Kimi's previous "Fastest Lap". :rolleyes:
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
| Dussander | 09-12-2005 10:31 AM |
Well, non-on board shots are a little tougher to get of the whole track at Spa then at a NASCAR track. So, I can kind of understand why they miss some stuff. The on boards may not have been very helpful, but they should have definetly shown them, BUT I think they can only switch to the onboard camera footage in live time, not easily rewind the captured footage on an onboard. Now if they broadcast some onboard, they can rewind the broadcast footage. Seriously though, they need to start working on getting some HD cameras. With the wide perspective they could show side by side onboards, which would be sweet.
| asquaredrex | 09-12-2005 11:02 AM |
Are there any sites that have a downloadable torrent of the race. Sounds like it was pretty interesting.
ibgobuyativo
ibgobuyativo
| Dussander | 09-12-2005 02:53 PM |
When is Spa not interesting? Try to get the GP2 race as well...oh, and GO BUY A TIVO! :) (from the guy who has 3)
| bal00 | 09-12-2005 04:32 PM |
[QUOTE=asquaredrex]Are there any sites that have a downloadable torrent of the race. Sounds like it was pretty interesting.
ibgobuyativo[/QUOTE]
[url]http://torentfiend.ath.cx:6969/[/url]
ibgobuyativo[/QUOTE]
[url]http://torentfiend.ath.cx:6969/[/url]
| StuBeck | 09-12-2005 06:44 PM |
[QUOTE=TimStevens]Sure looked like dry tires to me on what was left of his car.[/QUOTE]
Nope, they showed the pit stop right before the accident, they were intermediates.
Nope, they showed the pit stop right before the accident, they were intermediates.
| TimStevens | 09-12-2005 06:50 PM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck]Nope, they showed the pit stop right before the accident, they were intermediates.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://home.nycap.rr.com/timstevens/tires.JPG[/img]
[img]http://home.nycap.rr.com/timstevens/tires.JPG[/img]
| Patrick Olsen | 09-13-2005 02:41 AM |
[QUOTE=Dussander]The on boards may not have been very helpful, but they should have definetly shown them, BUT I think they can only switch to the onboard camera footage in live time, not easily rewind the captured footage on an onboard.[/QUOTE]
Again (and I'm not picking on you, I'm picking on Bernie and his boys), if NASCAR can immediately show me multiple in-car shots of a wreck or a pass or whatever, why can't F1, the most technologically advanced racing series in the world? It just annoys me, that's all. :)
Tim, thanks for the picture to correct those who weren't paying attention.
Pat
Again (and I'm not picking on you, I'm picking on Bernie and his boys), if NASCAR can immediately show me multiple in-car shots of a wreck or a pass or whatever, why can't F1, the most technologically advanced racing series in the world? It just annoys me, that's all. :)
Tim, thanks for the picture to correct those who weren't paying attention.
Pat
| bemani | 09-13-2005 03:06 AM |
Some people want to watch racing not crashing. They crash. JPM out. McLaren lost 8 points. Renault gained 2. End of story.
I for one am glad they don't show the crash for 5 minutes.
I for one am glad they don't show the crash for 5 minutes.
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