| erich_sc | 05-25-2004 06:28 PM |
European F1 GP this weekend!
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Don't forget that there is another Grand Prix this weekend. I only got 22 points on the Monaco race. Hopefully I do better on this one.
1. Michael
2. Juan
3. Jenson
4. Rubens
5. Takuma
6. Jarno
7. Ralph
8. Kimi
Monaco was a great race. Here's hoping for more excitement. :)
1. Michael
2. Juan
3. Jenson
4. Rubens
5. Takuma
6. Jarno
7. Ralph
8. Kimi
Monaco was a great race. Here's hoping for more excitement. :)
| BillT | 05-25-2004 06:51 PM |
Here are my picks for this race:
1. MS - I think the last thing the rest of field needs is an extra-determined MS after the Monaco tunnel incident
2. JB - He'll be fast but still 30+ seconds behind MS in the end
3. RB - Will be nipping on JB's heels the entire race
4. JT - having a great season in a damn good car
5. RS - He'll make the most of the FW26 and put on a decent show for his home race
6. FA - Won't have the pace to get by Ralphie
7. JPM - Will be lapped by MS and he'll not be able to do anything about it
8. GF - another point for Sauber!
1. MS - I think the last thing the rest of field needs is an extra-determined MS after the Monaco tunnel incident
2. JB - He'll be fast but still 30+ seconds behind MS in the end
3. RB - Will be nipping on JB's heels the entire race
4. JT - having a great season in a damn good car
5. RS - He'll make the most of the FW26 and put on a decent show for his home race
6. FA - Won't have the pace to get by Ralphie
7. JPM - Will be lapped by MS and he'll not be able to do anything about it
8. GF - another point for Sauber!
| pio!pio! | 05-25-2004 07:17 PM |
1) MS - Revenge from Monaco
2) JB - Consistency pays off
3) TS - BAR finally have both cars finish
4) RB - Right on the butt of Taku
5) JPM - Determined to win
6) JT - Renault down on power
7) FA - Both Renault's in the points
8) CDM - Eating leftovers
McLaren's out w/ engine/chassis problems
Sauber's just not up to speed
2) JB - Consistency pays off
3) TS - BAR finally have both cars finish
4) RB - Right on the butt of Taku
5) JPM - Determined to win
6) JT - Renault down on power
7) FA - Both Renault's in the points
8) CDM - Eating leftovers
McLaren's out w/ engine/chassis problems
Sauber's just not up to speed
| grandpa rex | 05-26-2004 06:24 AM |
Two weeks in a row! The only thing better will be when they do two weeks in a row in North America next month.
1. MS
2. Alonso
3. RB
4. Button
5. JPM
6. Trulli
7. Ralfie
8. Sato
1. MS
2. Alonso
3. RB
4. Button
5. JPM
6. Trulli
7. Ralfie
8. Sato
| erich_sc | 05-26-2004 03:09 PM |
Yeah, all these dates are great! I can't wait for Montreal! Hopefully all the teams have enough time to prepare for all of these consecutive races.
| cdvma | 05-26-2004 04:45 PM |
No love for Coulthard? Thats ok, I dont think his car will make the par either :lol:
I think we will see the Renaults on top, they got a good cornering chassis. As long as Alonso doesn't go happy-go-lucky with all the passing that will go on he should do well. Michael "The Freak" Schumacher will probably pull off the win again, this is a drivers' circuit and he is the best there is. Takuma Sato will do well if he doesn't get stupid and not finish, teamate Button will be up there if the engine holds.
I think we will see the Renaults on top, they got a good cornering chassis. As long as Alonso doesn't go happy-go-lucky with all the passing that will go on he should do well. Michael "The Freak" Schumacher will probably pull off the win again, this is a drivers' circuit and he is the best there is. Takuma Sato will do well if he doesn't get stupid and not finish, teamate Button will be up there if the engine holds.
| ArtGecko | 05-26-2004 10:46 PM |
M.Schumacher
J.Button
R.Barrichello
F.Alonso
J.Trulli
J.Montoya
T.Sato
C.Matta :huh:
We sure are picking a different bunch than we were five races ago! I think this is the first time I haven't had DC in my picks in more than a year.
I almost left JPM and Rubio out completely. Scenario: Rubio takes out JPM and self; Team Orders... :D
J.Button
R.Barrichello
F.Alonso
J.Trulli
J.Montoya
T.Sato
C.Matta :huh:
We sure are picking a different bunch than we were five races ago! I think this is the first time I haven't had DC in my picks in more than a year.
I almost left JPM and Rubio out completely. Scenario: Rubio takes out JPM and self; Team Orders... :D
| BillT | 05-27-2004 08:17 AM |
Hopefully in this race we won't have any 'backmarkers' involved in any incidents with the race leaders ;)
| Leonardo | 05-27-2004 09:46 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ArtGecko [/i]
[B]
I almost left JPM and Rubio out completely. Scenario: Rubio takes out JPM and self; Team Orders... :D [/B][/QUOTE]
:lol:
I still say JPM will win!
After Ralf goes wide in a turn and smacks into the brother -or- races his brother into a turn like he did to Alonso:devil:
[B]
I almost left JPM and Rubio out completely. Scenario: Rubio takes out JPM and self; Team Orders... :D [/B][/QUOTE]
:lol:
I still say JPM will win!
After Ralf goes wide in a turn and smacks into the brother -or- races his brother into a turn like he did to Alonso:devil:
| OnTheGas | 05-27-2004 11:47 AM |
It's Gettin' Interestin'!
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After race a like Monaco, it's getting harder to pick 'em!
Here's my wild guess:[list=1][*][b]Michael[/b] - Car and driver are reliably fast![*][b]Rubens[/b] - Car is reliably fast, driver is fast![*][b]Jenson[/b] - Car is fast, driver is reliably fast![*][b]Jarno[/b] - Should be a dogfight for the podium... a Renault may grab it, as both drivers and cars are very fast, but Honda seems to have more grunt, which is important here[*][b]Juan[/b] - Williams still not working well on the narrow front Michelins, but Juan will muscle the car up[*][b]Fernando[/b] - This is wrong... I don't know what I'm doing... it'll be a fluke if Alonso is this low in the points![*][b]Ralfie[/b] - He's driving angry, and may be faster than his team-mate, but his bad karma, and inability to pass or be passed on the track will bite him in the butt! :lol:[*][b]Takumo[/b] - Bad luck is the only reason that Takumo will finish this low. Otherwise, Giancarlo's Sauber grabs this point![/list]P.S. I'm an idiot, and reserve the right to change my picks before the first practice on Friday! :lol: :D
Here's my wild guess:[list=1][*][b]Michael[/b] - Car and driver are reliably fast![*][b]Rubens[/b] - Car is reliably fast, driver is fast![*][b]Jenson[/b] - Car is fast, driver is reliably fast![*][b]Jarno[/b] - Should be a dogfight for the podium... a Renault may grab it, as both drivers and cars are very fast, but Honda seems to have more grunt, which is important here[*][b]Juan[/b] - Williams still not working well on the narrow front Michelins, but Juan will muscle the car up[*][b]Fernando[/b] - This is wrong... I don't know what I'm doing... it'll be a fluke if Alonso is this low in the points![*][b]Ralfie[/b] - He's driving angry, and may be faster than his team-mate, but his bad karma, and inability to pass or be passed on the track will bite him in the butt! :lol:[*][b]Takumo[/b] - Bad luck is the only reason that Takumo will finish this low. Otherwise, Giancarlo's Sauber grabs this point![/list]P.S. I'm an idiot, and reserve the right to change my picks before the first practice on Friday! :lol: :D
| gtguy | 05-27-2004 11:53 AM |
Monaco was a fluke, I'm thinking. This weekend will mark the return of the Big Red Machine, but Barrichello won't hold up his end of the bargain. With that said,
1. MS (he has something to prove...watch out)
2. JB (the BAR is fast, no fluke)
3. RB (Barrichello just doesn't have the mustard)
4. JPM (he'll find some way to wrestle that car into the top five)
5. JT (big Monaco comedown)
6. DC (strategy will help him)
7. FA (he'll run afoul of R. Schumacher again)
8. TS (Sato is fast, but not consistently fast)
Kevin
1. MS (he has something to prove...watch out)
2. JB (the BAR is fast, no fluke)
3. RB (Barrichello just doesn't have the mustard)
4. JPM (he'll find some way to wrestle that car into the top five)
5. JT (big Monaco comedown)
6. DC (strategy will help him)
7. FA (he'll run afoul of R. Schumacher again)
8. TS (Sato is fast, but not consistently fast)
Kevin
| Leonardo | 05-27-2004 06:30 PM |
BAR's are fast untill they find the Driver Adjustable Vtec controller :lol:
Chilli Dog will own all!
:devil:
Chilli Dog will own all!
:devil:
| OnTheGas | 05-27-2004 07:18 PM |
Change Of Qualifying Format
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Anybody know when F1 will correct the current qualifying format?
| Dr. WOT | 05-28-2004 09:41 AM |
They have been talking about changing it for next year. The latest suggestion, which I'm not too sure about, is to have two 1 hour sessions, back-to-back, with aggregate times.
For whatever reason I can't get into making picks this year. I've seen every lap of every race, but I can't get interested in trying to predict the qual/results. :confused:
For whatever reason I can't get into making picks this year. I've seen every lap of every race, but I can't get interested in trying to predict the qual/results. :confused:
| Dussander | 05-28-2004 12:17 PM |
How do you see the laps I miss during commercials? :huh:
| artkevin | 05-28-2004 02:37 PM |
I hope they change the quailifing format before the USGP. I heard it is just damned boring to watch live. You are there for almost 3 hours and see each car go by twice. I think the format of last year was not great but at least it worked better then this one. I would also like to see them be able to adjust fuel loads before the race. Seeing the cars fat with fuel on a quali is just not that interesting to me.
| OnTheGas | 05-28-2004 02:55 PM |
Seeing the missing laps
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Dussander [/i]
[B]How do you see the laps I miss during commercials? :huh: [/B][/QUOTE] What are you referring to?
If you are able to surf the internet while watching the live broadcast, you can always hit [URL=http://www.formula1.com/]Formula1.com[/URL] to see the official FIA lapchart, lap and sector times feed in real time that all the teams get on the pit wall.
[B]How do you see the laps I miss during commercials? :huh: [/B][/QUOTE] What are you referring to?
If you are able to surf the internet while watching the live broadcast, you can always hit [URL=http://www.formula1.com/]Formula1.com[/URL] to see the official FIA lapchart, lap and sector times feed in real time that all the teams get on the pit wall.
| gtguy | 05-28-2004 04:02 PM |
Re: Change Of Qualifying Format
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by OnTheGas [/i]
[B]Anybody know when F1 will correct the current qualifying format? [/B][/QUOTE]
Ahem....(from AutoSport) Too late for Indy, but it is changing.
New qualifying format for British GP
Return to low fuel flying laps as qualifying receives shake-up
One lap qualifying will become a thing of the past from Silverstone. Hurrah!
Formula 1 will have a revised qualifying format as of the British Grand Prix at Silverstone on July 11. Replacing the existing single car format will be a one hour session split into two 20 minute sessions with a 20 minute break in between.
Each car must complete six laps in each of the sessions with the fastest time from each period aggregated to produce the overall grid time. Both sessions will be run with free fuel levels, meaning that once again we will see a return to flat out qualifying with cars in their optimum specification.
The parc ferme rules will continue but teams will fuel the cars after qualifying in preparation for the race. Many of the teams are believed to have pushed for the second session to be run with race fuel levels but Ferrari's Jean Todt pointed out that if fuel conservation was a factor, drivers would then crawl round on their in-laps having set their quick time, leading to potentially hazardous situations.A prime consideration has been a simple format that is easily understandable and any aggregate system could be seen to fly in the face of that, but timing equipment is considered sophisticated enough not to make this a problem.
[B]Anybody know when F1 will correct the current qualifying format? [/B][/QUOTE]
Ahem....(from AutoSport) Too late for Indy, but it is changing.
New qualifying format for British GP
Return to low fuel flying laps as qualifying receives shake-up
One lap qualifying will become a thing of the past from Silverstone. Hurrah!
Formula 1 will have a revised qualifying format as of the British Grand Prix at Silverstone on July 11. Replacing the existing single car format will be a one hour session split into two 20 minute sessions with a 20 minute break in between.
Each car must complete six laps in each of the sessions with the fastest time from each period aggregated to produce the overall grid time. Both sessions will be run with free fuel levels, meaning that once again we will see a return to flat out qualifying with cars in their optimum specification.
The parc ferme rules will continue but teams will fuel the cars after qualifying in preparation for the race. Many of the teams are believed to have pushed for the second session to be run with race fuel levels but Ferrari's Jean Todt pointed out that if fuel conservation was a factor, drivers would then crawl round on their in-laps having set their quick time, leading to potentially hazardous situations.A prime consideration has been a simple format that is easily understandable and any aggregate system could be seen to fly in the face of that, but timing equipment is considered sophisticated enough not to make this a problem.
| Dussander | 05-28-2004 04:17 PM |
[quote] What are you referring to? [/quote]
Sorry, I was hoping he had a source to the complete live feed of the race. I was taking "seen" literaly.
Sorry, I was hoping he had a source to the complete live feed of the race. I was taking "seen" literaly.
| SAW | 05-28-2004 04:52 PM |
That is great about the return to flying laps.
This past year and a half has sucked.
This past year and a half has sucked.
| Dussander | 05-28-2004 04:56 PM |
I actually really enjoyed one lap qualifying at Indy last year. It was the best part of the weekend for me. The Foster's might have had something to do with it though. :D
| OnTheGas | 05-28-2004 06:57 PM |
Re: Change Of Qualifying Format
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gtguy [/i]
[B]New qualifying format for British GP
Return to low fuel flying laps...[/B][/QUOTE] Excellent! They are gonna liberate the fuel loads for qualifying!! Qualifying will again indicate something about a car's abilities and a driver's skills, as it had in the past. That is much, much better!
Thanks for posting that Kevin!
[B]New qualifying format for British GP
Return to low fuel flying laps...[/B][/QUOTE] Excellent! They are gonna liberate the fuel loads for qualifying!! Qualifying will again indicate something about a car's abilities and a driver's skills, as it had in the past. That is much, much better!
Thanks for posting that Kevin!
| trinidriver | 05-28-2004 10:49 PM |
Raikkonen set the fastest time for the 2nd practice. How come he barely gets into your top 8 predictions?
| erich_sc | 05-29-2004 01:44 AM |
Are you serious? Look at how McLaren have been doing this year. I think putting them in the top 8 at all is now questionable.
| trinidriver | 05-29-2004 02:06 AM |
I'm don't think a McLaren is going to win the race, but since they seem to be doing ok in practice Kimi might get in the points.
| OnTheGas | 05-29-2004 02:41 AM |
Kablamo!
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trinidriver [/i]
[B]I'm don't think a McLaren is going to win the race, but since they seem to be doing ok in practice Kimi might get in the points.[/B][/QUOTE]By doing OK, do you also mean that his Mercedes motor has not yet blown up? There has only been 2 practice sessions at this point.
Odds are that a Mercedes will blow up before the weekend is done, and Kimi's luck has been appalling, it would more likely be Kimi's Mercedes that blows.
Kimi's record after 6 races = 4 mechanical failures, 2 finishes (11th, & 8th) = 1 championship point!
DC's record = 1 mechanical, 1 crash, 4 finishes, (12th, 10th, 8th, & 6th) = 4 points!
An analysis of the car finds that the motor is underpowered, and prone to failure. The chassis is not competitive (due to lack of grip) from mid-corner thru the exit of the turns. And finally, McLaren seem to have thrown in the towel on this season already, and are primarily interested in next season, and 2006.
[B]I'm don't think a McLaren is going to win the race, but since they seem to be doing ok in practice Kimi might get in the points.[/B][/QUOTE]By doing OK, do you also mean that his Mercedes motor has not yet blown up? There has only been 2 practice sessions at this point.
Odds are that a Mercedes will blow up before the weekend is done, and Kimi's luck has been appalling, it would more likely be Kimi's Mercedes that blows.
Kimi's record after 6 races = 4 mechanical failures, 2 finishes (11th, & 8th) = 1 championship point!
DC's record = 1 mechanical, 1 crash, 4 finishes, (12th, 10th, 8th, & 6th) = 4 points!
An analysis of the car finds that the motor is underpowered, and prone to failure. The chassis is not competitive (due to lack of grip) from mid-corner thru the exit of the turns. And finally, McLaren seem to have thrown in the towel on this season already, and are primarily interested in next season, and 2006.
| erich_sc | 05-29-2004 09:50 AM |
Re: Kablamo!
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by OnTheGas [/i]
[B]
And finally, McLaren seem to have thrown in the towel on this season already, and are primarily interested in next season, and 2006. [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm sure their sponsors are less than thrilled about this season.
[B]
And finally, McLaren seem to have thrown in the towel on this season already, and are primarily interested in next season, and 2006. [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm sure their sponsors are less than thrilled about this season.
| pio!pio! | 05-29-2004 11:52 AM |
Sato's First Qualifying time!!! :eek: Only man in the 27's
And once again Michael returns to form on traditional road coarses...but Sato P2??? wow
And once again Michael returns to form on traditional road coarses...but Sato P2??? wow
| artkevin | 05-29-2004 12:30 PM |
Even if Sato is on fuems it looks as though he is the real deal. I love that so many of these drivers in past year or so have shown why they are F1 drivers. Kimi, Jenson, JPM, Fisi, Jarno, Sato, Fernando, Webber. To me they have all impressed even with Schumacher around.
Dissapointments would have to be ole Ralhpie, Massa, Pantano, Panis and daMatta (more car then driver).
Dissapointments would have to be ole Ralhpie, Massa, Pantano, Panis and daMatta (more car then driver).
| nhluhr | 05-29-2004 09:00 PM |
until Ilmore Engineering finds a way to make their engines strong (and light) without using Be as an alloying element, McLaren are going to continue having problems.
| meebs | 05-30-2004 03:22 AM |
Can we just please bring back 12 lap qualifying? Please??? I'm with eddie.
| MRF582 | 05-30-2004 07:13 AM |
F1 Race in 15 mins. I really want Honda to do well today.
| finnRex | 05-30-2004 11:25 AM |
Surpirse of the race...McLaren cars go BLAMMO again!!!:mad: This is garbage. These guys need to step it up for next year BIG TIME...There's always a hope that Michael will retire and Kimi will take the #1 spot for Ferrari...
Mika(likes to dream)
Mika(likes to dream)
| Treefallen | 05-30-2004 01:09 PM |
You gotta love those hairpins after the start.
I am officialy ditching my mercedes cap, I wonder whose team cap I should wear now. Hmmm.... Massa in an STI this weekend:
From [url]http://f1.racing-live.com:[/url]
[IMG]http://f1.racing-live.com/photos/2004/nurburgring/diapo_684.jpg[/IMG]
So I'm going to order Sauber cap ... Fisi 6th! ;)
I am officialy ditching my mercedes cap, I wonder whose team cap I should wear now. Hmmm.... Massa in an STI this weekend:
From [url]http://f1.racing-live.com:[/url]
[IMG]http://f1.racing-live.com/photos/2004/nurburgring/diapo_684.jpg[/IMG]
So I'm going to order Sauber cap ... Fisi 6th! ;)
| artkevin | 05-30-2004 01:51 PM |
Hows at fault?
JPM or Ralphie for the first lap comimg togther? I am really up in the air on this one.
Rubino or Sato towards the end? I place most of the blame on Rubens not seeing Sato.
JPM or Ralphie for the first lap comimg togther? I am really up in the air on this one.
Rubino or Sato towards the end? I place most of the blame on Rubens not seeing Sato.
| gtguy | 05-30-2004 02:12 PM |
Sorry Artkevin, but Barrichello turned in on the normal racing line, where Sato came flying into the corner at an impossible point. Perhaps he'd been watching that pass that Zanardi put on Herta in CART, at the Laguna Seca corkscrew. :lol: Even had Barrichello turned left to allow Sato that crazy move, Sato wouldn't have made the corner. He was going WAY too fast to do anything except understeer, which is what he did.
Barrichello said after the race, that there were still 14 laps left, and Sato was definitely faster, and almost certainly could have passed him. Why Sato felt compelled to attempt a pass right at that point is unfathomable.
Now, on to the race:
What can you say about M. Schumacher? Those first laps were astounding. He was more than two seconds per lap faster than the rest of the field, which wasn't being held up all that much by Raikkonen's McLaren. Even the timing of the pit was perfect. The others pitted a lap later, but in that time, they came out in bad traffic, where Schumacher came out behind front runners, all of whom had to pit, leaving him with clear track. Wow.
Barrichello still doesn't have the speed. Sato was faster, and would have passed him for the second place position had Sato not been a prat. He's right in considering his second place more lucky than legitimately earned. He did the work, but all things being non-stupid, Sato makes the pass for second.
Button is on the podium yet again. He's getting used to this stuff, I think, though he admitted that his teammate was faster, and that there was a bit of luck involved. Still, nice drive.
Sam Michael of Williams expressed the sentiment that this season would be going better if their drivers could keep from crashing, which is quite true. It was a racing incident, from the looks of things, as yet another Ferrari slowed down in front of Montoya (how DARE they?), causing him to run into somebody, tires a-smokin'. Too bad for both R. Schumacher and Montoya.
And oh, woe is McLaren. Wonder if Coulthard called for the same tow truck driver who drove him back during qualifying? :lol:
It anything, it looks like Ferrari (well, Schumacher) came out of Monaco faster and even more committed to excellence. A true champion with something to prove is not a driver to be taken lightly, and Schumacher clearly had something to prove. From his qualifying lap to his race pace, he was on another level this weekend.
Kevin
Barrichello said after the race, that there were still 14 laps left, and Sato was definitely faster, and almost certainly could have passed him. Why Sato felt compelled to attempt a pass right at that point is unfathomable.
Now, on to the race:
What can you say about M. Schumacher? Those first laps were astounding. He was more than two seconds per lap faster than the rest of the field, which wasn't being held up all that much by Raikkonen's McLaren. Even the timing of the pit was perfect. The others pitted a lap later, but in that time, they came out in bad traffic, where Schumacher came out behind front runners, all of whom had to pit, leaving him with clear track. Wow.
Barrichello still doesn't have the speed. Sato was faster, and would have passed him for the second place position had Sato not been a prat. He's right in considering his second place more lucky than legitimately earned. He did the work, but all things being non-stupid, Sato makes the pass for second.
Button is on the podium yet again. He's getting used to this stuff, I think, though he admitted that his teammate was faster, and that there was a bit of luck involved. Still, nice drive.
Sam Michael of Williams expressed the sentiment that this season would be going better if their drivers could keep from crashing, which is quite true. It was a racing incident, from the looks of things, as yet another Ferrari slowed down in front of Montoya (how DARE they?), causing him to run into somebody, tires a-smokin'. Too bad for both R. Schumacher and Montoya.
And oh, woe is McLaren. Wonder if Coulthard called for the same tow truck driver who drove him back during qualifying? :lol:
It anything, it looks like Ferrari (well, Schumacher) came out of Monaco faster and even more committed to excellence. A true champion with something to prove is not a driver to be taken lightly, and Schumacher clearly had something to prove. From his qualifying lap to his race pace, he was on another level this weekend.
Kevin
| finnRex | 05-30-2004 02:57 PM |
Michael had some wicked hot laps in the beginning, and that was all he needed. Brilliant drive, briliiant strategy...as they say in the Guinness commercials "BRILLIANT!!!". Just imagine if he was "ON" the whole lap.
Sato should have kept back another corner or two, and then attacked. Rubens took a normal corner and Sato just got a bit too impatient. Not too sure if his motor would have lasted, as his did go out a few laps later. Maybe it was related to the front wing tap on Rubens wheel(tossing crap into the radiator, blocking cooling or something like that), but they're doing better than McLaren(who I'm very disgusted with right now). Kimi=bettar driver than his points show.
Mika
Sato should have kept back another corner or two, and then attacked. Rubens took a normal corner and Sato just got a bit too impatient. Not too sure if his motor would have lasted, as his did go out a few laps later. Maybe it was related to the front wing tap on Rubens wheel(tossing crap into the radiator, blocking cooling or something like that), but they're doing better than McLaren(who I'm very disgusted with right now). Kimi=bettar driver than his points show.
Mika
| artkevin | 05-30-2004 04:08 PM |
gtguy,
I do admit that Sato pulled a balls out move but it didn't seem that Rubens saw him coming at all. Rubens did turn in at a normal rate but if I saw a white car flying in I would try to adjust my line if only not to get hit. Sato should have waited.
I do admit that Sato pulled a balls out move but it didn't seem that Rubens saw him coming at all. Rubens did turn in at a normal rate but if I saw a white car flying in I would try to adjust my line if only not to get hit. Sato should have waited.
| Leonardo | 05-30-2004 08:35 PM |
Kimi's expresion says it all!
And just when Montoya ain't blowin engines nor tranys, he goes to a team that is below Renault, BAR, and Sauber. I feel sorry for him next year. If and when they get their act together, they'll be up there again. Maybee they should spend more money on the engine instead of the Star Wars pit outfits.
Sato had made that same pass like twice. Third was the charm and he came in too sure of himself and it cost him!
Michael is perhaps the greatest driver alive but I still hate (well, not so much, dislike is more like it) him for looking so arrogant and acting uptight when compared to other winning drivers. He needs to be more relaxed and be seen doing other stuff outside of racing. I don't know, somethng! Like what Rubbens did to him during the world cup socker finals when he pulled up his ferrari shirt to reveal the Brazillian team shirt.
Next year will be great as it looks like all the drivers, or at least most, will be in different teams.
Leo
- Yes, Montoya should have won! Damn Ralphie!;)
And just when Montoya ain't blowin engines nor tranys, he goes to a team that is below Renault, BAR, and Sauber. I feel sorry for him next year. If and when they get their act together, they'll be up there again. Maybee they should spend more money on the engine instead of the Star Wars pit outfits.
Sato had made that same pass like twice. Third was the charm and he came in too sure of himself and it cost him!
Michael is perhaps the greatest driver alive but I still hate (well, not so much, dislike is more like it) him for looking so arrogant and acting uptight when compared to other winning drivers. He needs to be more relaxed and be seen doing other stuff outside of racing. I don't know, somethng! Like what Rubbens did to him during the world cup socker finals when he pulled up his ferrari shirt to reveal the Brazillian team shirt.
Next year will be great as it looks like all the drivers, or at least most, will be in different teams.
Leo
- Yes, Montoya should have won! Damn Ralphie!;)
| shoracer | 05-30-2004 10:13 PM |
Montoya should be sent to Nacrap where the like crappy driver that wins by running into each other. Look Einhart (sp and could care less) was a big star due to driving like that.
| bemani | 05-30-2004 11:07 PM |
I'm glad Sato dive bombed Barrichello ... gives us something exciting to watch before his engine blows up again. I think someone's sabotaging his car :lol:
| cdvma | 05-30-2004 11:37 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cdvma[/i]
[B]Takuma Sato will do well if he doesn't get stupid and not finish, teamate Button will be up there if the engine holds. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep. I was up in arms at Sato for being so impatient. I never liked him...still dont. My prediction still holds for the next race too.
[B]Takuma Sato will do well if he doesn't get stupid and not finish, teamate Button will be up there if the engine holds. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep. I was up in arms at Sato for being so impatient. I never liked him...still dont. My prediction still holds for the next race too.
| sdogg3kgt | 05-30-2004 11:53 PM |
This whole season is gonna be boring. We already know who will win, and he'll do it fast.
| gtguy | 05-31-2004 09:35 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sdogg3kgt [/i]
[B]This whole season is gonna be boring. We already know who will win, and he'll do it fast. [/B][/QUOTE]
I dunno...watch those first seven laps, and tell me those are boring. Schumacher was pretty amazing, and Sato had a great drive that was ruined by brain cramps. Sure, the races won't all be like Monaco, but there's still some really good stuff going on.
And we can always wonder what Raikkonen will do next when his car blows up. The hands on the helmet was a new one, IIRC. Funnier still is that he's not even angry about it any longer, which should be truly frightening for Ron Dennis, when engine failures become not an "if," but "when" proposition.
Kevin
[B]This whole season is gonna be boring. We already know who will win, and he'll do it fast. [/B][/QUOTE]
I dunno...watch those first seven laps, and tell me those are boring. Schumacher was pretty amazing, and Sato had a great drive that was ruined by brain cramps. Sure, the races won't all be like Monaco, but there's still some really good stuff going on.
And we can always wonder what Raikkonen will do next when his car blows up. The hands on the helmet was a new one, IIRC. Funnier still is that he's not even angry about it any longer, which should be truly frightening for Ron Dennis, when engine failures become not an "if," but "when" proposition.
Kevin
| skuttledude | 05-31-2004 10:58 AM |
Brillant drive by MS as usual.
I'll never pick a McLaren to finish again! geesh, this is terrible!
Not an exciting race but will go down in the books as one of the most dominate drives by a world champion.
I'll never pick a McLaren to finish again! geesh, this is terrible!
Not an exciting race but will go down in the books as one of the most dominate drives by a world champion.
| StuBeck | 05-31-2004 11:04 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shoracer[/i]
[B] Montoya should be sent to Nacrap where the like crappy driver that wins by running into each other. Look Einhart (sp and could care less) was a big star due to driving like that. [/B][/QUOTE]
Barrichello braked early for the corner and he was trying to avoid him. It just happened to be Montoya that got screwed by being forced to lock up. And I know you don't care, but its Earnhardt
[B] Montoya should be sent to Nacrap where the like crappy driver that wins by running into each other. Look Einhart (sp and could care less) was a big star due to driving like that. [/B][/QUOTE]
Barrichello braked early for the corner and he was trying to avoid him. It just happened to be Montoya that got screwed by being forced to lock up. And I know you don't care, but its Earnhardt
| erich_sc | 05-31-2004 03:51 PM |
I saw it as Takuma's fault, though I was hoping for him to pass.
| pio!pio! | 05-31-2004 04:04 PM |
gtguy: I think in the opening stint that Kimi [i]did[/i] hold on the field quite a bit..I dont have individual laptimes (someone give me a subscription to Atlas :) ) but for example when Button got around Coulthard he zoomed off like nothing (he said DC was holding him up sometimes 2s a lap!)
I have no doubt MS would have still pulled away, although the gap would not have been as severe
I have no doubt MS would have still pulled away, although the gap would not have been as severe
| gtguy | 05-31-2004 06:12 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by pio!pio! [/i]
[B]gtguy: I think in the opening stint that Kimi [i]did[/i] hold on the field quite a bit..I dont have individual laptimes (someone give me a subscription to Atlas :) ) but for example when Button got around Coulthard he zoomed off like nothing (he said DC was holding him up sometimes 2s a lap!)
I have no doubt MS would have still pulled away, although the gap would not have been as severe [/B][/QUOTE]
Here are the fast laps in the race:
European GP : fastest laps in the race
1. Michael Schumacher: 1'29"468 - lap 7
2. Takuma Sato - 1'30"004 - lap 11
3. Rubens Barrichello: 1'30"101 - lap 14
4. Jenson Button: 1'30"457 - lap 13
5. Fernando Alonso: 1'31"065 - lap 29
6. Jarno Trulli : 1'31"131 - lap 30
7. Giancarlo Fisichella: 1'31"413 - lap 2
8. Juan Pablo Montoya: 1'31"424 - lap 43
9. Kimi Raikkonen: 1'31"670 - lap 2
10. Mark Webber: 1'31"893 - lap 37
11. Nick Heidfeld - 1'32"121 - lap 35
12. David Coulthard: 1'32"337 - lap 14
13. Olivier Panis: 1'32"506 - lap 12
14. Felipe Massa: 1'32"729 - lap 37
15. Giorgio Pantano: 1'32"772 - lap 27
16. Christian Klien: 1'32"804 - lap 14
17. Zsolt Baumgartner - 1'34"666 - lap 46
18. Gianmaria Bruni: 1'35"555 - lap 7
Note the pace difference between Schumacher's fastest lap and Sato's (second fastest), both on very light tanks. Now, notice that Raikkonen set ninth fastest lap, but did so on lap 2. We can presume that he stayed in the 1:31 range which indeed, is more than two seconds per lap slower than the pace at which Schumacher was lapping.
But the between-car gaps were sufficiently large, and nobody was threatening anyone, which is what leads me to speculate that Raikkonen wasn't holding anyone up that much. If you're that much faster than someone, you're past and on your way. You can pass at the Nurburgring. For sure, Raikkonen held everyone up, but I don't know if he did it all that much. Schumacher might have had a 10-second lead, instead of 17. But he still would have come in behind the leading seven, instead of back in traffic, which is what killed people such as Button.
Button blew around Coulthard when his car was ailing, and while fastest laps don't tell the entire story (if a driver was trapped in traffic for much of the race, for example) but they can help us figure out something of what was going on. Fast lap to fast lap, Button was two seconds faster than Coulthard, which can also explain the quick work that he made of DC.
Kevin
[B]gtguy: I think in the opening stint that Kimi [i]did[/i] hold on the field quite a bit..I dont have individual laptimes (someone give me a subscription to Atlas :) ) but for example when Button got around Coulthard he zoomed off like nothing (he said DC was holding him up sometimes 2s a lap!)
I have no doubt MS would have still pulled away, although the gap would not have been as severe [/B][/QUOTE]
Here are the fast laps in the race:
European GP : fastest laps in the race
1. Michael Schumacher: 1'29"468 - lap 7
2. Takuma Sato - 1'30"004 - lap 11
3. Rubens Barrichello: 1'30"101 - lap 14
4. Jenson Button: 1'30"457 - lap 13
5. Fernando Alonso: 1'31"065 - lap 29
6. Jarno Trulli : 1'31"131 - lap 30
7. Giancarlo Fisichella: 1'31"413 - lap 2
8. Juan Pablo Montoya: 1'31"424 - lap 43
9. Kimi Raikkonen: 1'31"670 - lap 2
10. Mark Webber: 1'31"893 - lap 37
11. Nick Heidfeld - 1'32"121 - lap 35
12. David Coulthard: 1'32"337 - lap 14
13. Olivier Panis: 1'32"506 - lap 12
14. Felipe Massa: 1'32"729 - lap 37
15. Giorgio Pantano: 1'32"772 - lap 27
16. Christian Klien: 1'32"804 - lap 14
17. Zsolt Baumgartner - 1'34"666 - lap 46
18. Gianmaria Bruni: 1'35"555 - lap 7
Note the pace difference between Schumacher's fastest lap and Sato's (second fastest), both on very light tanks. Now, notice that Raikkonen set ninth fastest lap, but did so on lap 2. We can presume that he stayed in the 1:31 range which indeed, is more than two seconds per lap slower than the pace at which Schumacher was lapping.
But the between-car gaps were sufficiently large, and nobody was threatening anyone, which is what leads me to speculate that Raikkonen wasn't holding anyone up that much. If you're that much faster than someone, you're past and on your way. You can pass at the Nurburgring. For sure, Raikkonen held everyone up, but I don't know if he did it all that much. Schumacher might have had a 10-second lead, instead of 17. But he still would have come in behind the leading seven, instead of back in traffic, which is what killed people such as Button.
Button blew around Coulthard when his car was ailing, and while fastest laps don't tell the entire story (if a driver was trapped in traffic for much of the race, for example) but they can help us figure out something of what was going on. Fast lap to fast lap, Button was two seconds faster than Coulthard, which can also explain the quick work that he made of DC.
Kevin
| OnTheGas | 05-31-2004 07:05 PM |
3 races in a row, a F2004 driver turns in to someone else!
�
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by artkevin [/i]
[B]I place most of the blame on Rubens not seeing Sato.[/B][/QUOTE]Yes, Rubens turned into Takuma, but I would place more of the blame on the designers of the F2004. The mirrors on the F2004 are significantly farther back from the front of the car, (for aerodynamic reasons as it creates cleaner airflow around the cockpit area). The mirrors appear to be located rather wide out in the driver's line of sight. A Ferrari team member mentioned to the AtlasF1's Grapevine columnist that it is very difficult for the driver to use those mirrors due to their location in relation to the cockpit.
There is strong empirical evidence that the F2004 mirros are a problem:[list][*]At Imola, Michael acted like Juan was not on his outside, and ran him off into the grass.[*]Last week, in Monaco's tunnel, Michael could have avoided Juan, but they collided.[*]This week, at N�rburgring, Rubens could have avoided Takuma, but instead turned right into him.[*]Michael claimed that Mark Webber really surprised him by being very aggressive coming out of the pits, and running turn 1 inside of Michael, but the replay did not illustrate Michael's claim.[/list]
Both Ferrari drivers, after these incidents proclaim surprise, and that the other driver should not have been there. I would suggest that Ferrari drivers are surprised because their mirrors are very difficult to use.
I'll post some comparison pics of the mirror lay-outs later, when I have a few minutes.
What this means, besides that anyone trying to run side by side with a Ferrari can expect to be driven into, and/or run off, and/or publicly admonished, is that Ferrari is vulnerable to FIA having them relocate the mirrors, and possibly suffering a penalty if a Ferrari driver makes a big, obvious mistake.
A team may protest to FIA fairly soon. I hope they do, so then we don't have to put with the Ferrari apologists (you know who you are! ;) :D ) continually having to back up their team's driving mistakes. OK just joking about that... But seriously, if the mirror locations are fixed, it would mean better side by side racing. Renault, BAR, and Williams are getting close to being able to run with Ferrari. Takumo was on fire at N�rburgring, and the running order of first 3 laps of Monaco were noteworthy:[list=1][*]Renault[*]Renault[*]BAR[*]BAR[*]Ferrari[*]Ferrari[/list]So the second half of this season may not be a cake walk for Ferrari, they may have to fight for it. But if they don't fix the mirrors, we're gonna see more elbowing, bumping, and surprises on the track involving red cars than we should see in the top level of open wheel racing.
[B]I place most of the blame on Rubens not seeing Sato.[/B][/QUOTE]Yes, Rubens turned into Takuma, but I would place more of the blame on the designers of the F2004. The mirrors on the F2004 are significantly farther back from the front of the car, (for aerodynamic reasons as it creates cleaner airflow around the cockpit area). The mirrors appear to be located rather wide out in the driver's line of sight. A Ferrari team member mentioned to the AtlasF1's Grapevine columnist that it is very difficult for the driver to use those mirrors due to their location in relation to the cockpit.
There is strong empirical evidence that the F2004 mirros are a problem:[list][*]At Imola, Michael acted like Juan was not on his outside, and ran him off into the grass.[*]Last week, in Monaco's tunnel, Michael could have avoided Juan, but they collided.[*]This week, at N�rburgring, Rubens could have avoided Takuma, but instead turned right into him.[*]Michael claimed that Mark Webber really surprised him by being very aggressive coming out of the pits, and running turn 1 inside of Michael, but the replay did not illustrate Michael's claim.[/list]
Both Ferrari drivers, after these incidents proclaim surprise, and that the other driver should not have been there. I would suggest that Ferrari drivers are surprised because their mirrors are very difficult to use.
I'll post some comparison pics of the mirror lay-outs later, when I have a few minutes.
What this means, besides that anyone trying to run side by side with a Ferrari can expect to be driven into, and/or run off, and/or publicly admonished, is that Ferrari is vulnerable to FIA having them relocate the mirrors, and possibly suffering a penalty if a Ferrari driver makes a big, obvious mistake.
A team may protest to FIA fairly soon. I hope they do, so then we don't have to put with the Ferrari apologists (you know who you are! ;) :D ) continually having to back up their team's driving mistakes. OK just joking about that... But seriously, if the mirror locations are fixed, it would mean better side by side racing. Renault, BAR, and Williams are getting close to being able to run with Ferrari. Takumo was on fire at N�rburgring, and the running order of first 3 laps of Monaco were noteworthy:[list=1][*]Renault[*]Renault[*]BAR[*]BAR[*]Ferrari[*]Ferrari[/list]So the second half of this season may not be a cake walk for Ferrari, they may have to fight for it. But if they don't fix the mirrors, we're gonna see more elbowing, bumping, and surprises on the track involving red cars than we should see in the top level of open wheel racing.
| HoRo1 | 05-31-2004 07:52 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by OnTheGas[/i]
[B] Yes, Rubens turned into Takuma . . . [/B][/QUOTE]
Where is it written in rules of racing that just because somebody is trying to overtake, the guy in front should let him through? Where is it written that when overtaking is done it is the job of the driver being passed to make sure that he is clear to turn in for a corner? A clean pass is the responsibility of the driver trying to make the pass. Sato was guilty of major brain fade.
[B] Yes, Rubens turned into Takuma . . . [/B][/QUOTE]
Where is it written in rules of racing that just because somebody is trying to overtake, the guy in front should let him through? Where is it written that when overtaking is done it is the job of the driver being passed to make sure that he is clear to turn in for a corner? A clean pass is the responsibility of the driver trying to make the pass. Sato was guilty of major brain fade.
| artkevin | 05-31-2004 08:26 PM |
OnTheGas,
The mirror argument goes to prove my point. Every car on the grid requiers the driver to physically turn his head to the side to look into his mirros even more so in the f2004. Rubens head never looked to his right to see his mirror at all when Sato came down on him. Sato never even locked up his breaks nor did Rubens. They both took natural lines into the corner but I don't think Sato was as kamakzee as most people are making it out to be. This all shows me that Rubens did not even know that Sato was attempting a pass.
I rewatched the post race interview and liseted to Woobins coments. I think he was miss quoted on fl-live.com due to english being his 2nd langauge. I think he said "I saw his noise" not "I saw his nose". I think he was saying that he heard the Honda but I still believe that if he actually saw the white car he would have widened his line to avoid the collision. I could be wrong though.
The mirror argument goes to prove my point. Every car on the grid requiers the driver to physically turn his head to the side to look into his mirros even more so in the f2004. Rubens head never looked to his right to see his mirror at all when Sato came down on him. Sato never even locked up his breaks nor did Rubens. They both took natural lines into the corner but I don't think Sato was as kamakzee as most people are making it out to be. This all shows me that Rubens did not even know that Sato was attempting a pass.
I rewatched the post race interview and liseted to Woobins coments. I think he was miss quoted on fl-live.com due to english being his 2nd langauge. I think he said "I saw his noise" not "I saw his nose". I think he was saying that he heard the Honda but I still believe that if he actually saw the white car he would have widened his line to avoid the collision. I could be wrong though.
| gtguy | 05-31-2004 09:11 PM |
I don't know about the whole mirror thing. I think that if somebody is coming out of the pits, unless they are racing for that position (Webber wasn't), I just don't see any reason to stuff the race leader coming up with a full head of steam. I don't think it's as much mirrors as Webber having some notion of wanting to show somebody something. He even said, post-race, something to the effect of "We all have our own races to attend to, and I would do it again tomorrow."
But Speed showed the replay, and Schumacher was alongside and slightly in front of Webber as the latter exited the pits, and Webber just drove across the track, to take his racing line. Panis did the same thing to Schumacher earlier in the race, which does make you wonder if Schumacher could have used a bit more patience in dealing with the backmarkers.
And I just watched the race again, putting it onto a DVD, and Sato screwed up. Period. I just don't think that a driver in front is supposed to alter his line to account for a crazy move by a guy coming up from behind. I do think that Barrichello didn't realize Sato was there, because drivers just don't expect idiocy, so they don't account for it. So Rubens took his normal racing line, and Sato drove into him. It was an amateurish move, particularly when Sato had the faster car. Circumspection would have gotten him a better shot at the position. I'm with HoRo on this one. You pass if there's room, but the guy you're trying to pass isn't supposed to make room for you.
Sato is quickly becoming the enfant terrible of F1. He bumps Schumacher after jumping the start at Monaco, and made a pretty crazy move going into the first corner in Sunday's race. He reminds me of the drivers we all encounter in our daily tasks, who presume that it is the job of the rest of the world to watch out for them. :lol:
Alonso was the driver behind Raikkonen, who was driving the wheels off that car. There were a couple of times that Alonso got within a car length, then Raikkonen would stretch it out again. Great driving from the very talented Finn. Bummer about the car.
Kevin
But Speed showed the replay, and Schumacher was alongside and slightly in front of Webber as the latter exited the pits, and Webber just drove across the track, to take his racing line. Panis did the same thing to Schumacher earlier in the race, which does make you wonder if Schumacher could have used a bit more patience in dealing with the backmarkers.
And I just watched the race again, putting it onto a DVD, and Sato screwed up. Period. I just don't think that a driver in front is supposed to alter his line to account for a crazy move by a guy coming up from behind. I do think that Barrichello didn't realize Sato was there, because drivers just don't expect idiocy, so they don't account for it. So Rubens took his normal racing line, and Sato drove into him. It was an amateurish move, particularly when Sato had the faster car. Circumspection would have gotten him a better shot at the position. I'm with HoRo on this one. You pass if there's room, but the guy you're trying to pass isn't supposed to make room for you.
Sato is quickly becoming the enfant terrible of F1. He bumps Schumacher after jumping the start at Monaco, and made a pretty crazy move going into the first corner in Sunday's race. He reminds me of the drivers we all encounter in our daily tasks, who presume that it is the job of the rest of the world to watch out for them. :lol:
Alonso was the driver behind Raikkonen, who was driving the wheels off that car. There were a couple of times that Alonso got within a car length, then Raikkonen would stretch it out again. Great driving from the very talented Finn. Bummer about the car.
Kevin
| FatChanceTi | 05-31-2004 10:25 PM |
I also heard Rubens' comment as "I saw his noise". I don't have first hand experience on what you can hear and not hear when driving an F1 car though. I just think that he knew Sato was back there, but correctly thought that he was way too far back to sanely overtake on that corner.
That was a silly move by Sato, he was way too far inside and on the brakes way too hard, way too late. There was no room for him in there, and Rubens should not have been expected to leave him room. Nope.
I think Sato's adrenaline gets the better of him sometimes and even his team admits that he is often guilty of overdriving the car. I think David Richards is covering for him to the public this time, but frustrated at him behind the scenes.
Part of me also wonders is Sato's "race day red-mist" is somewhat responsible for his engine problems (when compared to Button). The team would surely know this, but perhaps Sato simply does not treat his engine as smoothly as JB does.
FCTi
That was a silly move by Sato, he was way too far inside and on the brakes way too hard, way too late. There was no room for him in there, and Rubens should not have been expected to leave him room. Nope.
I think Sato's adrenaline gets the better of him sometimes and even his team admits that he is often guilty of overdriving the car. I think David Richards is covering for him to the public this time, but frustrated at him behind the scenes.
Part of me also wonders is Sato's "race day red-mist" is somewhat responsible for his engine problems (when compared to Button). The team would surely know this, but perhaps Sato simply does not treat his engine as smoothly as JB does.
FCTi
| shrieden | 05-31-2004 10:55 PM |
Now while I am no BAR team mechanic, I have to agree with the race commentators when they said that todays F1 engines are all computer controlled so the driver can't blow the engine anymore. The computer prevents that.
With regard to Takuma amd his pass. He may have been a bit ambitious with that move but I applaud it, I jumped from the couch when I saw him go for it, so if anything it deffo made it exciting. Dave Richards also applauded the move saying:
"He is a motor racing driver, what do you expect him to do - slow down and wave people by"
With regard to Takuma amd his pass. He may have been a bit ambitious with that move but I applaud it, I jumped from the couch when I saw him go for it, so if anything it deffo made it exciting. Dave Richards also applauded the move saying:
"He is a motor racing driver, what do you expect him to do - slow down and wave people by"
| BriDrive | 06-01-2004 10:23 AM |
I chalk up alot, if not most, race speed incidents (leaving safety car incidents out:lol: ) to the adrenalin induced, heart-rate affected, frenetic, violent and literally split-second decision making that todays F1 Drivers are faced with.
No excuses here, just a fact.....things are happening so fast, and driver's concentration is razor edge....It's not like Webber is merging on to an interstate from a rest area.....
Takumo Sato.....I like him....I think he's a bit brash, but these guys HAVE to think like that...that's how they keep there seats...you don't go taking out the other guy or yourself in a moronic move a la Villeneuve...but you gotta think these guys believe they can pull off a move if they're trying it.
I've been reading all 3 of Steve Matchetts' books. They are incredibly interesting, quite enlightening...and I recommend them to anyone who's interested in behind the scenes happenings of grand-prix racing in the modern era. I'm not suggesting these will make anyone an expert, but I must say I am stunned at how ignorant I am about F1 from the inside.
BriDrive, a neutral F1 fan..................:lol:
No excuses here, just a fact.....things are happening so fast, and driver's concentration is razor edge....It's not like Webber is merging on to an interstate from a rest area.....
Takumo Sato.....I like him....I think he's a bit brash, but these guys HAVE to think like that...that's how they keep there seats...you don't go taking out the other guy or yourself in a moronic move a la Villeneuve...but you gotta think these guys believe they can pull off a move if they're trying it.
I've been reading all 3 of Steve Matchetts' books. They are incredibly interesting, quite enlightening...and I recommend them to anyone who's interested in behind the scenes happenings of grand-prix racing in the modern era. I'm not suggesting these will make anyone an expert, but I must say I am stunned at how ignorant I am about F1 from the inside.
BriDrive, a neutral F1 fan..................:lol:
| OnTheGas | 06-01-2004 12:10 PM |
Re: 3 races in a row, a F2004 driver turns in to someone else!
�
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Just to follow up on...[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by OnTheGas [/i]
[B]...I would place more of the blame on the designers of the F2004. The mirrors on the F2004 are significantly farther back from the front of the car, (for aerodynamic reasons as it creates cleaner airflow around the cockpit area). The mirrors appear to be located rather wide out in the driver's line of sight. A Ferrari team member mentioned to the AtlasF1's Grapevine columnist that it is very difficult for the driver to use those mirrors due to their location in relation to the cockpit.[/B][/QUOTE]I noticed that I had missed another point that he made which is that the mirrors are also very low...
Here is a brief quote from the article...[quote][i][URL=http://www.atlasf1.com/2004/mon/wgrapevine.html]AtlasF1's Dieter Rencken[/URL][/i]
[b]...the mirrors in the F2004 are sited so far back and so low as to be basically useless - not this column's take on the matter, but that of a Ferrari man, who admitted as much in Imola whilst explaining that sitting there, almost in line with, but way below, Michael's eyes, they cause minimum disruption of air flowing to, over and around the critical cockpit area, which, in turn, funnels air upwards to the mid-mounted aerofoil, and backwards to the all-important winglets and rear wing planes. In fact, Ferrari's Monaco press release contains a picture showing the mirrors to be virtually flush with the air intake surfaces.[/b][/quote]Pics illustrating his point can be found at [URL=http://www.motorsport.com/photos/series.asp?S=F1&Y=0]Motorsport.com's F1 pic gallery[/URL], and I'm sure elsewhere, too. The article in AtlasF1 showed a single pic, that was a split frame showing the F2003 and F2004 side by side (from Ferrari's studio shots of each car's formal introduction). The F2004 mirrors are significantly lower. Other pics show them to be wider as well.
[B]...I would place more of the blame on the designers of the F2004. The mirrors on the F2004 are significantly farther back from the front of the car, (for aerodynamic reasons as it creates cleaner airflow around the cockpit area). The mirrors appear to be located rather wide out in the driver's line of sight. A Ferrari team member mentioned to the AtlasF1's Grapevine columnist that it is very difficult for the driver to use those mirrors due to their location in relation to the cockpit.[/B][/QUOTE]I noticed that I had missed another point that he made which is that the mirrors are also very low...
Here is a brief quote from the article...[quote][i][URL=http://www.atlasf1.com/2004/mon/wgrapevine.html]AtlasF1's Dieter Rencken[/URL][/i]
[b]...the mirrors in the F2004 are sited so far back and so low as to be basically useless - not this column's take on the matter, but that of a Ferrari man, who admitted as much in Imola whilst explaining that sitting there, almost in line with, but way below, Michael's eyes, they cause minimum disruption of air flowing to, over and around the critical cockpit area, which, in turn, funnels air upwards to the mid-mounted aerofoil, and backwards to the all-important winglets and rear wing planes. In fact, Ferrari's Monaco press release contains a picture showing the mirrors to be virtually flush with the air intake surfaces.[/b][/quote]Pics illustrating his point can be found at [URL=http://www.motorsport.com/photos/series.asp?S=F1&Y=0]Motorsport.com's F1 pic gallery[/URL], and I'm sure elsewhere, too. The article in AtlasF1 showed a single pic, that was a split frame showing the F2003 and F2004 side by side (from Ferrari's studio shots of each car's formal introduction). The F2004 mirrors are significantly lower. Other pics show them to be wider as well.
| jibco | 06-01-2004 12:53 PM |
Yeah, it seems that it is a dangerously large effort to peak in the mirrors of the F2004.
[url]http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_gallery_image_display.php?fes_gal_id=267&fes_image_number=6&fes_reverse_order=[/url]
It was totally Takuma's fault though. Just too impatient. I wonder if the engine would have lasted? Oh well.
[url]http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_gallery_image_display.php?fes_gal_id=267&fes_image_number=6&fes_reverse_order=[/url]
It was totally Takuma's fault though. Just too impatient. I wonder if the engine would have lasted? Oh well.
| Dr. WOT | 06-01-2004 03:05 PM |
Good race, basically the normal affair, with a few very ambitious moves.
The start was pretty much the highlight of the race, and Sato made a wicked outbraking move down the inside of the first corner. I swear he could not have been more than an inch from the back of MS's wing, but pulled it off cleanly so well done to him.
Not so well done by Montoya, who is seemingly incapable of staying out of trouble. Despite his attempt to place blame on Barrichello and Panis, this was in my eyes nothing more than Montoya trying to make up for his poor grid position by passing the entire field at the first corner.
He locked up badly and understeered straight into Ralf, then catching out poor old daMatta who was an innocent bystander. The part that really blows my mind is, as I have already alluded to, that once again JPM is blaming this on everybody and anybody BUT HIMSELF!!!!!!!!!! :furious: I'm going to the race in Montreal; I wonder if he will try to blame me for whatever incident he's involved in up there!!!
Schumacher has already thanked Kimi for holding up the field for the first few laps, so from there the result was set in stone.
Sato's move on Barrichello was over ambitious. He was a good 2 car lenghts back and while he had been lundging into turn one all day, he clearly had no way to making the turn without using RB as a rumble strip.
Sorry OTG but I'm not buying the mirror theory. Sato was far enough back that RB didn't think he was in position to attempt a pass (which he wasn't) so Rubens was more focused on the hairpin approaching at 300kph than what might be happening in his mirrors. Can't blame him there.
It has been suggested that Sato's engine may have failed because of the 17 second pit stop he made to replace his nose cone. Overall I hope that Sato learns from this mistake and is a better judge of his oppertunities in the future. I have no problem with him trying to go for a long shot, as long as it doesn't keep happening. Calk this up to youthfull exuberance.
I'm starting to wonder if Button has lost the plot a bit. He has been scoring points, but has been pretty well outclassed by his teammate 2 weeks in a row. Just on the basis of experience alone I'd expect JB to be outpacing Sato, but TS has been more than a match lately. It will be interesting to see if Jenson can respond, or is Sato the real thing?
The start was pretty much the highlight of the race, and Sato made a wicked outbraking move down the inside of the first corner. I swear he could not have been more than an inch from the back of MS's wing, but pulled it off cleanly so well done to him.
Not so well done by Montoya, who is seemingly incapable of staying out of trouble. Despite his attempt to place blame on Barrichello and Panis, this was in my eyes nothing more than Montoya trying to make up for his poor grid position by passing the entire field at the first corner.
He locked up badly and understeered straight into Ralf, then catching out poor old daMatta who was an innocent bystander. The part that really blows my mind is, as I have already alluded to, that once again JPM is blaming this on everybody and anybody BUT HIMSELF!!!!!!!!!! :furious: I'm going to the race in Montreal; I wonder if he will try to blame me for whatever incident he's involved in up there!!!
Schumacher has already thanked Kimi for holding up the field for the first few laps, so from there the result was set in stone.
Sato's move on Barrichello was over ambitious. He was a good 2 car lenghts back and while he had been lundging into turn one all day, he clearly had no way to making the turn without using RB as a rumble strip.
Sorry OTG but I'm not buying the mirror theory. Sato was far enough back that RB didn't think he was in position to attempt a pass (which he wasn't) so Rubens was more focused on the hairpin approaching at 300kph than what might be happening in his mirrors. Can't blame him there.
It has been suggested that Sato's engine may have failed because of the 17 second pit stop he made to replace his nose cone. Overall I hope that Sato learns from this mistake and is a better judge of his oppertunities in the future. I have no problem with him trying to go for a long shot, as long as it doesn't keep happening. Calk this up to youthfull exuberance.
I'm starting to wonder if Button has lost the plot a bit. He has been scoring points, but has been pretty well outclassed by his teammate 2 weeks in a row. Just on the basis of experience alone I'd expect JB to be outpacing Sato, but TS has been more than a match lately. It will be interesting to see if Jenson can respond, or is Sato the real thing?
| AndyRoo | 06-02-2004 08:27 AM |
This race was actually kind of exciting, even though you knew no one would catch MS.
Button was complaining about a lack of grip in qualifying i believe, so maybe his car was not set up as well as Sato's? Sato was fast, and has been occasionally in the past (Suzuka with the Jordan some time ago), but he's not consistent nor does he have enough self control. Fact is JB has podiumed way more and knows how to score the points. Watching Sato screw up is pretty exciting though.
Button was complaining about a lack of grip in qualifying i believe, so maybe his car was not set up as well as Sato's? Sato was fast, and has been occasionally in the past (Suzuka with the Jordan some time ago), but he's not consistent nor does he have enough self control. Fact is JB has podiumed way more and knows how to score the points. Watching Sato screw up is pretty exciting though.
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