| makofoto | 09-19-2005 01:46 AM |
How were the Kooks in the Wet ?
�
�
Can anyone give us some feedback on how the various new street tires worked in the wet at Topeka. I rather not spend the money for the Yokos ... the 615's won't be available in 235/40/17 until next year ... so I was thinking of full tread Kooks ...
I need to buy a set of street tires, that will do double duty as my heavy rain tires in my local SM series.
I need to buy a set of street tires, that will do double duty as my heavy rain tires in my local SM series.
| Imprezivblue | 09-19-2005 07:42 AM |
I liked the continentals ;)
| omahasubaru | 09-19-2005 08:46 AM |
I liked the 615/215 azenis (no surprise)
I spoke with one STX driver who wasn't too fond of the Yoko's in the wet... but still raves about their dry performance.
I've driven on hankooks in the wet (not nationals) and thought they were ok. I'd still perfer an Azenis.... 615's will be out soon in 235/40-17.
I spoke with one STX driver who wasn't too fond of the Yoko's in the wet... but still raves about their dry performance.
I've driven on hankooks in the wet (not nationals) and thought they were ok. I'd still perfer an Azenis.... 615's will be out soon in 235/40-17.
| makofoto | 09-19-2005 11:11 AM |
As I said ... the 615's in 235/40/17 will now only be available NEXT YEAR! :-(
Which Conti's ?
Josh says the Yokos are the BEST in the wet ?!?!
Which Conti's ?
Josh says the Yokos are the BEST in the wet ?!?!
| KC | 09-19-2005 11:16 AM |
I liked the V710s... oh wait.. it didn't rain on my runs. (3 wet spots tho on Thursday)
| pleiades | 09-19-2005 11:34 AM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]
Which Conti's ?
[/QUOTE]
These: [URL=http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/us/en/continental/automobile/themes/pc_tyres/uh_performance/conti_sport_contact_2/master_en.html]ContiSportContact 2[/URL]
These were what we ran both days in STX. We were actually running 225's, as the set of 225's we had were newer than the 235's. Don't know if that hurt us or not.
Steven
Which Conti's ?
[/QUOTE]
These: [URL=http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/us/en/continental/automobile/themes/pc_tyres/uh_performance/conti_sport_contact_2/master_en.html]ContiSportContact 2[/URL]
These were what we ran both days in STX. We were actually running 225's, as the set of 225's we had were newer than the 235's. Don't know if that hurt us or not.
Steven
| Jsortor | 09-19-2005 11:39 AM |
Billy Brooks ran on shaved Kooks on Thursday (all wet runs) He ran 56.8's. Billy is an awesome rain driver. I ran 57.0 on my shaved Yoko's in the wet, and I am not a good rain driver. All in all though, I would say the the Kooks look to be above average then in the rain.
| makofoto | 09-19-2005 11:56 AM |
Thanks Josh ... being who you are ... can you recommend the most outstanding high performance wet tire!
| trhoppe | 09-19-2005 11:58 AM |
Hankook == the best in the rain, period.
-Tom
-Tom
| makofoto | 09-19-2005 12:02 PM |
Those Conti's only are Average in Wet Traction in this Tire Rack survey ... not sure how "accurate" those surveys are for our purposes ... but ...
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=MP[/url]
My Toyo T1S were outstanding in the wet ... soft side walls ... but Ultra Light ... I believe the lightest performance tire out there. I wonder how the new Toyo T1R is ...
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=MP[/url]
My Toyo T1S were outstanding in the wet ... soft side walls ... but Ultra Light ... I believe the lightest performance tire out there. I wonder how the new Toyo T1R is ...
| jcroy66 | 09-19-2005 12:35 PM |
Other than more expensive than the Yoko's?
| makofoto | 09-19-2005 12:38 PM |
... didn't realize they had gotten so expensive ... thanks ...
| solo-x | 09-19-2005 12:54 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]I liked the V710s... oh wait.. it didn't rain on my runs. (3 wet spots tho on Thursday)[/QUOTE]
better buy rains for next year, you just called out the rain gods. they're already pissed at you for ditchin' the scooby. :eek:
nate :lol:
better buy rains for next year, you just called out the rain gods. they're already pissed at you for ditchin' the scooby. :eek:
nate :lol:
| solo-x | 09-19-2005 12:55 PM |
btw, i've got a picture of the conti shod 2.5 on two wheels. yeah, [b]TWO[/b] wheels. it was a smooth section of the course too, and the driver was offline in the marbles. conti=teh n3w hawtness?
nate - has whiplash from the double take
nate - has whiplash from the double take
| Imprezivblue | 09-19-2005 12:57 PM |
[QUOTE=solo-x]btw, i've got a picture of the conti shod 2.5 on two wheels. yeah, [b]TWO[/b] wheels. it was a smooth section of the course too, and the driver was offline in the marbles. conti=teh n3w hawtness?
nate - has whiplash from the double take[/QUOTE]
TTIWWOP!!! :devil:
nate - has whiplash from the double take[/QUOTE]
TTIWWOP!!! :devil:
| Jsortor | 09-19-2005 01:18 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Hankook == the best in the rain, period.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
If you are looking for Tom, he is under Mr Hankook's desk. :p
Andy Basham's opinion was that the Hankook was better in the rain than the Yoko as well..... Your choice.....
-Tom[/QUOTE]
If you are looking for Tom, he is under Mr Hankook's desk. :p
Andy Basham's opinion was that the Hankook was better in the rain than the Yoko as well..... Your choice.....
| KC | 09-19-2005 01:23 PM |
[QUOTE=Jsortor]If you are looking for Tom, he is under Mr Hankook's desk. :p
Andy Basham's opinion was that the Hankook was better in the rain than the Yoko as well..... Your choice.....[/QUOTE]
:lol: Hoppe who? No one saw him this year at nationals... so he no longer exists.
Looking at the contis, I think they have a good design for concrete with their tread pattern for lateral grip... and the way it's designed. Sure, it's lesser surface area, but looking at the charateristics of it's wear... I'm not surprised on how well they did. (and hollis looked at me like I had two heads when I said I like the design and it makes sense they had good grip.)
--kC
[IMG]KC Diploma of Tire[/IMG]
Andy Basham's opinion was that the Hankook was better in the rain than the Yoko as well..... Your choice.....[/QUOTE]
:lol: Hoppe who? No one saw him this year at nationals... so he no longer exists.
Looking at the contis, I think they have a good design for concrete with their tread pattern for lateral grip... and the way it's designed. Sure, it's lesser surface area, but looking at the charateristics of it's wear... I'm not surprised on how well they did. (and hollis looked at me like I had two heads when I said I like the design and it makes sense they had good grip.)
--kC
[IMG]KC Diploma of Tire[/IMG]
| Imprezivblue | 09-19-2005 01:25 PM |
FWIW, i've run full tread (or close to it) hankooks in the rain on my car. Granted, my car is an ill prepared version of Steven Rankin's rs. I was pleasantly surprised by the way the shaved conti's worked in the rain on Steven's car. I haven't had much experience in the rain though for my lack of experience.
| trhoppe | 09-19-2005 01:46 PM |
[QUOTE=Jsortor]If you are looking for Tom, he is under Mr Hankook's desk. :p
Andy Basham's opinion was that the Hankook was better in the rain than the Yoko as well..... Your choice.....[/QUOTE]
Hey now! I speak the truth!
Just imagine how much more you could have won by if you went with the faster tire Josh ;)
[quote]Hoppe who? No one saw him this year at nationals... so he no longer exists.[/quote] I wanted to give someone else a chance this year ;)
-Tom
Andy Basham's opinion was that the Hankook was better in the rain than the Yoko as well..... Your choice.....[/QUOTE]
Hey now! I speak the truth!
Just imagine how much more you could have won by if you went with the faster tire Josh ;)
[quote]Hoppe who? No one saw him this year at nationals... so he no longer exists.[/quote] I wanted to give someone else a chance this year ;)
-Tom
| omahasubaru | 09-19-2005 02:26 PM |
[QUOTE=pleiades]These: [URL=http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/us/en/continental/automobile/themes/pc_tyres/uh_performance/conti_sport_contact_2/master_en.html]ContiSportContact 2[/URL]
These were what we ran both days in STX. We were actually running 225's, as the set of 225's we had were newer than the 235's. Don't know if that hurt us or not.
Steven[/QUOTE]
Of course you liked them who in their right mind wouldn't love free tires from a paying sponsor. Of course... :p j/k
Was nice to meet you Steven.
What kind of tire pressures were the Yoko & Kook shod cars using, perhaps I just wasn't close in pressures with my Kooks.
Again the Yoko comment was second from one person. He may have changed his tune as I didn't talk to him after all of his runs on Thursday.
Jon
These were what we ran both days in STX. We were actually running 225's, as the set of 225's we had were newer than the 235's. Don't know if that hurt us or not.
Steven[/QUOTE]
Of course you liked them who in their right mind wouldn't love free tires from a paying sponsor. Of course... :p j/k
Was nice to meet you Steven.
What kind of tire pressures were the Yoko & Kook shod cars using, perhaps I just wasn't close in pressures with my Kooks.
Again the Yoko comment was second from one person. He may have changed his tune as I didn't talk to him after all of his runs on Thursday.
Jon
| Jsortor | 09-19-2005 02:28 PM |
Everybody is connected in here. I guess the only factual information your going to get is in the results..... Oh hey! Yokohama finished 1-2!! :lol:
| makofoto | 09-19-2005 02:37 PM |
Would Yokohama like even more cars in the results? Could you collect our addresses and have Yokohama send us tires ... :lol:
| PhilC | 09-19-2005 03:16 PM |
Basham would love some free tires too. :lol: STX fast time on north might just get him some.
Tire choice at the top of the heap this year was a real mixed bag. By my quick look:
Yok
Yok
215
Conti
Kook
Kook
Yok
After that I know there was Alec and Chang on Falkens but I don't know if they were running leftover 215s or 615s and last trophy was Todd who I don't remember what he was riding on.
I like our Yoks a lot in the rain, I think the Kooks might be a touch better based on the larger void area though.
Tire choice at the top of the heap this year was a real mixed bag. By my quick look:
Yok
Yok
215
Conti
Kook
Kook
Yok
After that I know there was Alec and Chang on Falkens but I don't know if they were running leftover 215s or 615s and last trophy was Todd who I don't remember what he was riding on.
I like our Yoks a lot in the rain, I think the Kooks might be a touch better based on the larger void area though.
| pleiades | 09-19-2005 04:02 PM |
For what it's worth, we ran the same tires wet and dry. They were shaved to approx 3/32's.
Steven
Steven
| Jsortor | 09-19-2005 04:07 PM |
[QUOTE=omahasubaru]
What kind of tire pressures were the Yoko & Kook shod cars using, perhaps I just wasn't close in pressures with my Kooks.
Jon[/QUOTE]
I was at 38 F/R on my high 67sec 2nd run. Then I bumped them down to 35 F/R for my 67.00sec 3rd run.
What kind of tire pressures were the Yoko & Kook shod cars using, perhaps I just wasn't close in pressures with my Kooks.
Jon[/QUOTE]
I was at 38 F/R on my high 67sec 2nd run. Then I bumped them down to 35 F/R for my 67.00sec 3rd run.
| solo-x | 09-19-2005 09:42 PM |
what's that about pics? here ya go!
[IMG]http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTA3MTUyOTZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTA3MTUyOTZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg[/IMG]
| pleiades | 09-19-2005 09:54 PM |
Sweet!!!1
Upon closer inspection, I think that is Jon on one of his dirt-track-it runs.
Upon closer inspection, I think that is Jon on one of his dirt-track-it runs.
| WJM | 09-19-2005 09:55 PM |
RS is two wheelin it!
| PhilC | 09-19-2005 09:58 PM |
Sweet pic of the **** you throw up when even slightly offline in some of the corners. When the track sheds chunks of pavement the offline areas become super nasty and it doesn't take much to get out into it if you drift even a foot or two wide. Pretty impressive to lift two in the dust.
| racerjon1 | 09-19-2005 10:03 PM |
Ah sweet.. that makes like the 4th car or something i have pictures of myself on two wheels with..
offline yes. dirt tracking, yes.. i was on a mission to either put the damn thing on its roof or make up the 3 seconds i was down to steven.. I guess i got closer to putting it on its roof. :-P
Marbles, no.. first heat so there wasn't much dust, i was actually able to go faster on my third run going the "wrong" way in the slalom cause it was shorter. (later the dust would have made it impossible)
Jon
offline yes. dirt tracking, yes.. i was on a mission to either put the damn thing on its roof or make up the 3 seconds i was down to steven.. I guess i got closer to putting it on its roof. :-P
Marbles, no.. first heat so there wasn't much dust, i was actually able to go faster on my third run going the "wrong" way in the slalom cause it was shorter. (later the dust would have made it impossible)
Jon
| abaxter34 | 09-19-2005 11:34 PM |
[QUOTE=PhilC]After that I know there was Alec and Chang on Falkens but I don't know if they were running leftover 215s or 615s and last trophy was Todd who I don't remember what he was riding on.
[QUOTE]
Alec was on the 615's.
[QUOTE]
Alec was on the 615's.
| z3coupe | 09-20-2005 01:34 AM |
Guess it is going to come down to this:
1) the driver's style
2) which tire fits your style of driving
3) setting up the car properly for the tire you choose
4) if its raining, use FULL TREAD tires :devil:
For instance, in #1 and #2, some like loose handling, scrubbing speed sideways, or hanging the tail out. Others prefer tight steering response. And still others prefer sponsorship and FREE tires :devil:
1) the driver's style
2) which tire fits your style of driving
3) setting up the car properly for the tire you choose
4) if its raining, use FULL TREAD tires :devil:
For instance, in #1 and #2, some like loose handling, scrubbing speed sideways, or hanging the tail out. Others prefer tight steering response. And still others prefer sponsorship and FREE tires :devil:
| bbimpreza | 09-20-2005 07:22 AM |
On both Thursday and Friday, we used 3/32nd Hankook RS-2s. Pressures were run at 37F, 35R for thursday and 38F, 36R to 39F, 37R for Friday. This is what both Jason and I ran on in STX. For Ann Hollis in STXL, we switched to full thread Hankooks for her runs in the rain on thursday, and the shaved Hankooks on friday. We used similar tire pressures for her runs.
Billy Brooks
Billy Brooks
| makofoto | 09-20-2005 11:39 AM |
Rocky ... or some of us just can't wait any longer for the 615's ... so we have to make a compromise and get something else ... :-(
| ratt_finkel | 09-20-2005 12:35 PM |
Todd ran full tread 615's.
| z3coupe | 09-20-2005 05:04 PM |
Bah, I picked the Yoks because I had a gut feeling that they might be good - I still remember my most favorite tire ever, the A008. So I stuck with them banking on that. If they had not come out with this new AD07, then I too would have been on Falkens again, though that Conti looks interesting now that I gave it a serious look. But what I would not give for a tread pattern like the A008 again!!!!
| Imprezivblue | 09-20-2005 05:06 PM |
[QUOTE=z3coupe]Bah, I picked the Yoks because I had a gut feeling that they might be good - I still remember my most favorite tire ever, the A008. So I stuck with them banking on that. If they had not come out with this new AD07, then I too would have been on Falkens again, though that Conti looks interesting now that I gave it a serious look. But what I would not give for a tread pattern like the A008 again!!!![/QUOTE]
FWIW, I have a friend that's an engineer for yoko. I told him that everyone is in love with that tire and he mentioned it when he went to Japan a few weeks ago. They told him there's a possibility it might show up again ;) When? Who knows. . .
FWIW, I have a friend that's an engineer for yoko. I told him that everyone is in love with that tire and he mentioned it when he went to Japan a few weeks ago. They told him there's a possibility it might show up again ;) When? Who knows. . .
| makofoto | 09-20-2005 05:11 PM |
... move on Rocky ... move on ... :-)
| z3coupe | 09-20-2005 05:38 PM |
[QUOTE]FWIW, I have a friend that's an engineer for yoko. I told him that everyone is in love with that tire and he mentioned it when he went to Japan a few weeks ago. They told him there's a possibility it might show up again When? Who knows. . .[/QUOTE] :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :D
| makofoto | 09-20-2005 05:41 PM |
Boy Rocky ... you're full of vim and vigor after that operation ... can't wait for you to start dancing AX again! ... You do hold the record in my book for catching the biggest finish corner slide ever in your STI !
| ExitVisa | 09-20-2005 06:23 PM |
[QUOTE=z3coupe]Bah, I picked the Yoks because I had a gut feeling that they might be good - I still remember my most favorite tire ever, the A008. So I stuck with them banking on that. If they had not come out with this new AD07, then I too would have been on Falkens again, though that Conti looks interesting now that I gave it a serious look. But what I would not give for a tread pattern like the A008 again!!!![/QUOTE]
Is this the one you're talking about?
[url="http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=A008P&vehicleSearch=true&partnum=055ZR68P&fromCompare1=yes&place=16"]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=A008P&vehicleSearch=true&partnum=055ZR68P&fromCompare1=yes&place=16[/url]
Is this the one you're talking about?
[url="http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=A008P&vehicleSearch=true&partnum=055ZR68P&fromCompare1=yes&place=16"]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=A008P&vehicleSearch=true&partnum=055ZR68P&fromCompare1=yes&place=16[/url]
| jcroy66 | 09-21-2005 09:29 PM |
OK, FWIW, here's the order of finishers in STX/STXL in the wet on Thursday. To try to equalize it, I counted 2nd and 3rd runs only for STX, and 1st and 2nd runs only for STXL. Please note that I did count cones in this, rather than using raw times, to save some work. And who's to say if a particular time was possible if the person didn't hit the cone.
Disclaimer: Excel is acting kinda funny, so if anyone notices any mistakes, please feel free to point them out.
Billy Brooks Hankook
Joshua Sortor Yokohama
Chris Fenter Hankook
Michael King Yokohama
Steve Rankins Continental
Chang Ho Kim Falken
Andy Basham Yokohama
Kyle Walther Falken
Todd Milstead
Alec* Osenbach Falken
Jeff Craven Falken
Jon Krolewicz Continental
Richard West Falken
Tim D Miller Yokohama
Tommy Regan
Greg Olsen Yokohama
Derek Punch Falken
Courtney Cormier Falken
Ann Hollis Hankook
Phil Croy Yokohama
Andrew VanderPloeg Hankook
Joshua Morgan Kumho
Jeff Brown Hankook
Jennifer Croy Yokohama
Jason Wong Hankook
Larry Olsen Yokohama
Chris Conant Falken
Todd K Meade Kumho
Tara Knoll Continental
John Jacobs Falken
Zack Barnes Hankook
Lee Walther Falken
Dean Rindler Falken
Garrett L Bickerdike Falken
Julie J Avard Falken
Dan Crank Kumho
Milburn Emery Falken
Paul Whitehead Falken
Disclaimer: Excel is acting kinda funny, so if anyone notices any mistakes, please feel free to point them out.
Billy Brooks Hankook
Joshua Sortor Yokohama
Chris Fenter Hankook
Michael King Yokohama
Steve Rankins Continental
Chang Ho Kim Falken
Andy Basham Yokohama
Kyle Walther Falken
Todd Milstead
Alec* Osenbach Falken
Jeff Craven Falken
Jon Krolewicz Continental
Richard West Falken
Tim D Miller Yokohama
Tommy Regan
Greg Olsen Yokohama
Derek Punch Falken
Courtney Cormier Falken
Ann Hollis Hankook
Phil Croy Yokohama
Andrew VanderPloeg Hankook
Joshua Morgan Kumho
Jeff Brown Hankook
Jennifer Croy Yokohama
Jason Wong Hankook
Larry Olsen Yokohama
Chris Conant Falken
Todd K Meade Kumho
Tara Knoll Continental
John Jacobs Falken
Zack Barnes Hankook
Lee Walther Falken
Dean Rindler Falken
Garrett L Bickerdike Falken
Julie J Avard Falken
Dan Crank Kumho
Milburn Emery Falken
Paul Whitehead Falken
| z3coupe | 09-21-2005 09:52 PM |
Dcargile, that is not the one, though close to it. The outer tread was SOLID rubber with racing style dimples in it. The 215 was almost close to its style.
Here was one thing I found [URL=http://www.yokohamatire.com/news_05_28_2004.asp]End of the A008[/URL]
Here was one thing I found [URL=http://www.yokohamatire.com/news_05_28_2004.asp]End of the A008[/URL]
| makofoto | 09-22-2005 01:33 AM |
Thanks J ... looks like the tires were pretty even ... but more Falken's towards the rear. I wonder if that was more of a function of 235/40 vs 225/45 ?
| jcroy66 | 09-22-2005 07:55 AM |
My guess is it was probably mostly a function of the folks that knew they might be near the top wanting a tire that offers both contingency money and top performance. So those folks were willing to do their own research and figure out what was best for their car (as opposed to tests like GRM, which aren't car-specific or size-specific).
Plus, the folks who do National events perhaps had more opportunity to share their independent tire testing with each other.
Also, keep in mind that if I had a Civic, I'd probably still be on the Azenis. The available tire sizing really does make a difference.
Plus, the folks who do National events perhaps had more opportunity to share their independent tire testing with each other.
Also, keep in mind that if I had a Civic, I'd probably still be on the Azenis. The available tire sizing really does make a difference.
| KC | 09-22-2005 08:11 AM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]I wonder if that was more of a function of 235/40 vs 225/45 ?[/QUOTE]
Mako, have you learned nothing? Honestly... look at the *names* of the people in the front. They could probably be close to the same spots no matter what tire they chose.
Stop thinking it's all about equipment that puts people where they finish... I see your posts mostly focused on changes and differences in equipment. Focus on driving better.
While equipment does sort of come into play... I bet if you just left your car alone for a year, including fiddling with ride heights, tire pressures, brands of tire, shock settings, and you started the year with just one brand and size of tire, and set a 'general' baseline for shocks/pressures... you'd be much faster at the end of the year because you will learn to drive *around* any setup and *just* focus on driving. Or even just the 1st 1/2 of the year...
Set it. Forget it. Drive.
--kC
(While I understand there's quite a bit of stuff changing in the classes, and setup does play an important role in 'going faster', 90% of the people that have only been doing it for a few years get lost in the 'details' of car prep. and fail to focus on improving the driver. Getting the proper training to make full use of the seat time is key... in other words.. never stop learning how to drive... ever. Just because you're with a group that put on your own auto-x schools, doesn't mean you can stop learning from others on HOW to drive. I know people that have taken Phase I/II a few times... not just one and called it a day. They're great refereshers on how to kill bad habits.)
Mako, have you learned nothing? Honestly... look at the *names* of the people in the front. They could probably be close to the same spots no matter what tire they chose.
Stop thinking it's all about equipment that puts people where they finish... I see your posts mostly focused on changes and differences in equipment. Focus on driving better.
While equipment does sort of come into play... I bet if you just left your car alone for a year, including fiddling with ride heights, tire pressures, brands of tire, shock settings, and you started the year with just one brand and size of tire, and set a 'general' baseline for shocks/pressures... you'd be much faster at the end of the year because you will learn to drive *around* any setup and *just* focus on driving. Or even just the 1st 1/2 of the year...
Set it. Forget it. Drive.
--kC
(While I understand there's quite a bit of stuff changing in the classes, and setup does play an important role in 'going faster', 90% of the people that have only been doing it for a few years get lost in the 'details' of car prep. and fail to focus on improving the driver. Getting the proper training to make full use of the seat time is key... in other words.. never stop learning how to drive... ever. Just because you're with a group that put on your own auto-x schools, doesn't mean you can stop learning from others on HOW to drive. I know people that have taken Phase I/II a few times... not just one and called it a day. They're great refereshers on how to kill bad habits.)
| makofoto | 09-22-2005 11:59 AM |
haha ... yup, just what all my AX buddies here say ... but some people just like playing with their cars. Look at Toby Larsson ... he delights in getting his DSP BMW perfect ... so that his wife Beverlee and Karl Asseily can kick ass in it. I like seeing how fast Barco is with my car.
I use to post driving questions ... ran out of those. LOL
You are right about the best drivers ... look at my buddy Motonishi ... he's tested his STS Civic with 615's ... and was almost a second faster with them over his Kuhmo MX's! But he's one of the few people with a Kuhmo contract ... six sets of free tires a year ... so he goes to Nationals with the MX's ... and still wins the STS Solo2 ... and comes in 2nd to McCormick in the Pros. btw. in something like 6 previous match ups with McCormick at National events earlier this year ... Ken beat him by a COMBINED time of around 0.2 seconds!
I've taken three EVO courses, CSCC AX school, go-kart racing school ... but some of us are never going to be as good as others ... so perhaps that is why we gravitate to playing around with our cars. Still having a lot of fun ... and hope to make it to Nationals next year. A friend and I were going to these Nationals until 10 days before we had to leave ... driving his SS Vette ... but a big job came up for us.
The tire size question was just a very general question ... ever since Tom won last year with smaller tires. Since there was a pronounced difference in tire distribution in that list ... I thought the question had merit. Do you not think that Josh's tire choice last year made a difference ... it made a difference in your case ... :-)
I use to post driving questions ... ran out of those. LOL
You are right about the best drivers ... look at my buddy Motonishi ... he's tested his STS Civic with 615's ... and was almost a second faster with them over his Kuhmo MX's! But he's one of the few people with a Kuhmo contract ... six sets of free tires a year ... so he goes to Nationals with the MX's ... and still wins the STS Solo2 ... and comes in 2nd to McCormick in the Pros. btw. in something like 6 previous match ups with McCormick at National events earlier this year ... Ken beat him by a COMBINED time of around 0.2 seconds!
I've taken three EVO courses, CSCC AX school, go-kart racing school ... but some of us are never going to be as good as others ... so perhaps that is why we gravitate to playing around with our cars. Still having a lot of fun ... and hope to make it to Nationals next year. A friend and I were going to these Nationals until 10 days before we had to leave ... driving his SS Vette ... but a big job came up for us.
The tire size question was just a very general question ... ever since Tom won last year with smaller tires. Since there was a pronounced difference in tire distribution in that list ... I thought the question had merit. Do you not think that Josh's tire choice last year made a difference ... it made a difference in your case ... :-)
| jcroy66 | 09-22-2005 12:26 PM |
I think Josh's lack of previous rain experience last year made a difference...
| makofoto | 09-22-2005 12:49 PM |
yeah ... that's what he said ... maybe he was covering up for his tire sponsor! ;-)
... just kidding Josh ...
... just kidding Josh ...
| KC | 09-22-2005 01:27 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]haha ... yup, just what all my AX buddies here say ... but some people just like playing with their cars. Look at Toby Larsson ... he delights in getting his DSP BMW perfect ... so that his wife Beverlee and Karl Asseily can kick ass in it. I like seeing how fast Barco is with my car.[/QUOTE]
If you like playing with your car, fine. Excellent. There's nothing wrong with that. But Toby and Karl are very, very good drivers. Let me put it this way.. did their setup make them fast, or are they just fast drivers in anything? I'm leaning towards the latter. Once you have the driving skills to make use of *any* setup, minute details will help you find that tenth.
But if you don't have the skills in the 1st place (you being general here, not specifically you Mako... I forgot to put that in my initial post) and you're constantly second guessing setup... you will never become a better driver. THAT is the focus I'm trying to make. If you take out the setup issues, and drive... you'll become a faster driver and make setup work for you vs setup dictating how you should drive.
[QUOTE] post driving questions ... ran out of those. LOL[/QUOTE]
Huh? I can't remember the last time I read a book and notes while navigating a course. What does that have to do with anything. Drive your setup.
[QUOTE]You're right about the best drivers ... look at my buddy Motonishi ... he's tested his STS Civic with 615's ... and was almost a second faster with them over his Kuhmo MX's! But he's one of the few people with a Kuhmo contract ... six sets of free tires a year ... so he goes to Nationals with the MX's ... and still wins the STS Solo2 ... and comes in 2nd to McCormick in the Pros. btw. in something like 6 previous match ups with McCormick at National events earlier this year ... Ken beat him by a COMBINED time of around 0.2 seconds![/QUOTE] Great... glad to hear they worked for him. Ken can drive the wheels off of anything. Why? He's got more seat time than almost anyone competing in STS. It illustrates my point even further... he drives the setup and deals with it. :)
[QUOTE]I've taken three EVO courses, CSCC AX school, go-kart racing school ... but some of us are never going to be as good as others ... so perhaps that is why we gravitate to playing around with our cars. Still having a lot of fun ... and hope to make it to Nationals next year. A friend and I were going to these Nationals until 10 days before we had to leave ... driving his SS Vette ... but a big job came up for us.[/QUOTE]
Again, I understand what you're saying here. However, over the past couple years, it seems as if you've started to get bogged down in the details of setup... when you can be driving better with what you have if you just stopped changing everything becuase of some perceived change. I want to see people improve as drivers. However, I'm seeing many people, only in this for a couple years thinking...
'because X won with Y mods, they have to be the best.'
THAT is what I'm trying to squash here. Set your car up... and drive it.
[QUOTE]The tire size question was just a very general question ... ever since Tom won last year with smaller tires. Since there was a pronounced difference in tire distribution in that list ... I thought the question had merit. Do you not think that Josh's tire choice last year made a difference ... [/QUOTE] As Jen said... and Josh even backed it up a few times last year... it wasn't the tires... it was the rain.
[QUOTE]it made a difference in your case ... :-)[/QUOTE]And you don't know what my case was last year. Let's just leave it at that... and it certainly wasn't my tire choice as you insinuate. This really proves that you're looking at the mods (in this case tire choice) being the reason people (like myself) win or lose in the ST classes.. and NOT their driving.
I'm trying to be helpful here.... stop looking at the mods/choices and drive your setup more without changing things.
--kC
If you like playing with your car, fine. Excellent. There's nothing wrong with that. But Toby and Karl are very, very good drivers. Let me put it this way.. did their setup make them fast, or are they just fast drivers in anything? I'm leaning towards the latter. Once you have the driving skills to make use of *any* setup, minute details will help you find that tenth.
But if you don't have the skills in the 1st place (you being general here, not specifically you Mako... I forgot to put that in my initial post) and you're constantly second guessing setup... you will never become a better driver. THAT is the focus I'm trying to make. If you take out the setup issues, and drive... you'll become a faster driver and make setup work for you vs setup dictating how you should drive.
[QUOTE] post driving questions ... ran out of those. LOL[/QUOTE]
Huh? I can't remember the last time I read a book and notes while navigating a course. What does that have to do with anything. Drive your setup.
[QUOTE]You're right about the best drivers ... look at my buddy Motonishi ... he's tested his STS Civic with 615's ... and was almost a second faster with them over his Kuhmo MX's! But he's one of the few people with a Kuhmo contract ... six sets of free tires a year ... so he goes to Nationals with the MX's ... and still wins the STS Solo2 ... and comes in 2nd to McCormick in the Pros. btw. in something like 6 previous match ups with McCormick at National events earlier this year ... Ken beat him by a COMBINED time of around 0.2 seconds![/QUOTE] Great... glad to hear they worked for him. Ken can drive the wheels off of anything. Why? He's got more seat time than almost anyone competing in STS. It illustrates my point even further... he drives the setup and deals with it. :)
[QUOTE]I've taken three EVO courses, CSCC AX school, go-kart racing school ... but some of us are never going to be as good as others ... so perhaps that is why we gravitate to playing around with our cars. Still having a lot of fun ... and hope to make it to Nationals next year. A friend and I were going to these Nationals until 10 days before we had to leave ... driving his SS Vette ... but a big job came up for us.[/QUOTE]
Again, I understand what you're saying here. However, over the past couple years, it seems as if you've started to get bogged down in the details of setup... when you can be driving better with what you have if you just stopped changing everything becuase of some perceived change. I want to see people improve as drivers. However, I'm seeing many people, only in this for a couple years thinking...
'because X won with Y mods, they have to be the best.'
THAT is what I'm trying to squash here. Set your car up... and drive it.
[QUOTE]The tire size question was just a very general question ... ever since Tom won last year with smaller tires. Since there was a pronounced difference in tire distribution in that list ... I thought the question had merit. Do you not think that Josh's tire choice last year made a difference ... [/QUOTE] As Jen said... and Josh even backed it up a few times last year... it wasn't the tires... it was the rain.
[QUOTE]it made a difference in your case ... :-)[/QUOTE]And you don't know what my case was last year. Let's just leave it at that... and it certainly wasn't my tire choice as you insinuate. This really proves that you're looking at the mods (in this case tire choice) being the reason people (like myself) win or lose in the ST classes.. and NOT their driving.
I'm trying to be helpful here.... stop looking at the mods/choices and drive your setup more without changing things.
--kC
| makofoto | 09-22-2005 01:51 PM |
O.K. ... soon as I put my new brake pads on ... going back to my original Rotora Ultimate Axxis pads ... because I don't like the Ceramic Sports pads ... the only other choice that Rotora offers ... which I didn't realize when I bought them. Bought the Rotora's before I started AX'ing. Rotora has their own unique backing plates. You have to use your old plates if you want to use someone else's friction material.
oh ... and after replacing my Cross Member, I'm still having an issue with my passenger side rear A Arm racing bushing mount becoming distorted ?!
... but I promise I won't waste time "playing" with my exhaust system this weekend and will instead concentrate on driving! I did stop taking photos at events ... that was a major step for me to try and focus on racing! ;-)
Thanks for your concern K.C. ... I thought I started some good discussions though with my questions. And I did order a set of 235/40/17 Kooks ... to use as a street tire and SM rain tire ...
oh ... and after replacing my Cross Member, I'm still having an issue with my passenger side rear A Arm racing bushing mount becoming distorted ?!
... but I promise I won't waste time "playing" with my exhaust system this weekend and will instead concentrate on driving! I did stop taking photos at events ... that was a major step for me to try and focus on racing! ;-)
Thanks for your concern K.C. ... I thought I started some good discussions though with my questions. And I did order a set of 235/40/17 Kooks ... to use as a street tire and SM rain tire ...
| makofoto | 09-22-2005 02:15 PM |
You're right ... when I settled down with my SM WRX and drove a few events w/o changing things ... I finished 20th in Pax out of 234 (our CSCC April event) ... with the horrible Street Modified/Vic Sias Index.
... ahead of the likes of Ryan Buetzer, Steve O'blenes and ... behind Asseily, Tom Berry, Ken Motonishi, Beverlee Larsson, Scott McHughes, Toby, Bill Schenker, David Palmquest, Jason Uyeda, Randy Chase, Rita Wilsey, Jeff Barco, Eric Clements, Christine Berry, and right behind Wil Kalman! Recognize most of those names from last week. :-)
Why did I try to "improve" my car after that !?!? :rolleyes: :(
I did have brand new 245/40/17 Hoosier S-05's for that event ... but I prefer to think it was all driving ... and my main competitors had the "better" Kuhmo 710's ... :p
... ahead of the likes of Ryan Buetzer, Steve O'blenes and ... behind Asseily, Tom Berry, Ken Motonishi, Beverlee Larsson, Scott McHughes, Toby, Bill Schenker, David Palmquest, Jason Uyeda, Randy Chase, Rita Wilsey, Jeff Barco, Eric Clements, Christine Berry, and right behind Wil Kalman! Recognize most of those names from last week. :-)
Why did I try to "improve" my car after that !?!? :rolleyes: :(
I did have brand new 245/40/17 Hoosier S-05's for that event ... but I prefer to think it was all driving ... and my main competitors had the "better" Kuhmo 710's ... :p
| KC | 09-22-2005 02:34 PM |
I sense I have offended. Was not meant to be taken that way. Apologies.
If you're looking for input, be ready to accept input from all sides.... not just what you want to hear (ie: which tires are 'betterer').
--kC
If you're looking for input, be ready to accept input from all sides.... not just what you want to hear (ie: which tires are 'betterer').
--kC
| buzz313th | 09-22-2005 02:37 PM |
In defense of Mako:
My dear freind Mako... who has had quite a unfortunate list of events with his car, has been somewhat forced into doing more settup work than driving unfortunately. I'm not gonna go over the details, but he has had to correct some issues with bent chassis parts, which has led him down the path of having to work on his car more than others.
To say that Mako needs to focus more on driving than anything else is true. But unfortunately, he has not had the opportunity to get a baseline set-up that he is happy with. Once we think he has found that baseline, we find an issue with his car or his decision to run in a particular class gets changed.
Mako is a great driver, definately one of the best in our region. He is also one of the most Die Hard Autox enthusiasts I know. He enjoys nothing more than to think about autocross all day. (Which also explains his activity here on the forum.)
His reply about the differences between the taller 45 series vs the 40 series is a good topic, and I beleive the difference does give a slight advantage.
If it wasn't for Mako's constant R&D on his car, us Suby drivers down here in SoCal, would have to do the R&D ourselves.... So..... It is quite helpful that he is the "Tweaker" when it comes to setup. I for one have been wanting to test the idea of "No Bar" in the front, but I was just too lazy to do the work. Well... at the last practice I got the chance to drive Mako's car with no Front bar, 12mm front bar, 17mm bar and 19mm stock bar, all because of Mako's energy and enthusiasm to tweak with his car...... Without this, I probably would have never gotten around to doing it on my car.
Thanks Mako....
JB
My dear freind Mako... who has had quite a unfortunate list of events with his car, has been somewhat forced into doing more settup work than driving unfortunately. I'm not gonna go over the details, but he has had to correct some issues with bent chassis parts, which has led him down the path of having to work on his car more than others.
To say that Mako needs to focus more on driving than anything else is true. But unfortunately, he has not had the opportunity to get a baseline set-up that he is happy with. Once we think he has found that baseline, we find an issue with his car or his decision to run in a particular class gets changed.
Mako is a great driver, definately one of the best in our region. He is also one of the most Die Hard Autox enthusiasts I know. He enjoys nothing more than to think about autocross all day. (Which also explains his activity here on the forum.)
His reply about the differences between the taller 45 series vs the 40 series is a good topic, and I beleive the difference does give a slight advantage.
If it wasn't for Mako's constant R&D on his car, us Suby drivers down here in SoCal, would have to do the R&D ourselves.... So..... It is quite helpful that he is the "Tweaker" when it comes to setup. I for one have been wanting to test the idea of "No Bar" in the front, but I was just too lazy to do the work. Well... at the last practice I got the chance to drive Mako's car with no Front bar, 12mm front bar, 17mm bar and 19mm stock bar, all because of Mako's energy and enthusiasm to tweak with his car...... Without this, I probably would have never gotten around to doing it on my car.
Thanks Mako....
JB
| makofoto | 09-22-2005 02:37 PM |
no no ... just realized that my car WAS pretty decently set-up ... and like you said ... I should just be driving it's tail off ... instead of going to Sedan A Arms, third different set of springs ... different track widths, etc, etc ... :furious: :furious:
| makofoto | 09-22-2005 02:41 PM |
Thanks Jeff ... KC only had my pathetic performance at the San Diego Nationals to go by ... where I was photographing for the SCCA ... last time I took on that distraction!
| PKer | 09-22-2005 02:42 PM |
Mako: KC is right....remember how I started improving in the standings AFTER my rear struts broke and I went back to stock?
| KC | 09-22-2005 02:44 PM |
Way to blow thing outta proportion guys. :thumbsup: ;)
--kC
--kC
| makofoto | 09-22-2005 02:44 PM |
Oh, I should try that ! ... just kidding ... :-)
| PKer | 09-22-2005 02:47 PM |
So umm weren't we talking about how great the Kooks are?
I need more assurance that I made the right tire choice for the next few months. ;-)
I need more assurance that I made the right tire choice for the next few months. ;-)
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét