| Jsortor | 07-21-2005 09:38 AM |
Turn-in is over-rated. Much, much less on-throttle understeer (STI) on corner exit is a more important point. Think, do you want more time saved from the apex of one corner to the turn in of the next, or from the turn in of a corner to the apex of the same corner. Plus, it is much more difficult to fix on-throttle understeer without compromising other areas. Making the DCCD work for you is a very tricky skill in the stock STI, but at least it is an option. 50/50 Center diff = one throttle understeer every time.
| MattNJ2.8 | 07-21-2005 09:45 AM |
Drive the '04 RS and '05 and up EVO's (all models).
The new front diff works wonders in the understeer dept.
The new front diff works wonders in the understeer dept.
| DrBiggly | 07-21-2005 09:55 AM |
[QUOTE=Jsortor]Turn-in is over-rated. Much, much less on-throttle understeer (STI) on corner exit is a more important point. Think, do you want more time saved from the apex of one corner to the turn in of the next, or from the turn in of a corner to the apex of the same corner. Plus, it is much more difficult to fix on-throttle understeer without compromising other areas. Making the DCCD work for you is a very tricky skill in the stock STI, but at least it is an option. 50/50 Center diff = one throttle understeer every time.[/QUOTE]
I concur. :)
I concur. :)
| Arnie | 07-21-2005 10:01 AM |
Another thing that no one has mentioned is that the Evo's have always had a wider track than the STi's. Makes a sizeable difference between the two's cornering prowess.
| asquaredrex | 07-21-2005 10:10 AM |
[QUOTE=Jsortor]Turn-in is over-rated. Much, much less on-throttle understeer (STI) on corner exit is a more important point. Think, do you want more time saved from the apex of one corner to the turn in of the next, or from the turn in of a corner to the apex of the same corner. Plus, it is much more difficult to fix on-throttle understeer without compromising other areas. Making the DCCD work for you is a very tricky skill in the stock STI, but at least it is an option. 50/50 Center diff = one throttle understeer every time.[/QUOTE]
I guess the cars just don't feel this way to me. The STi feels like an understeering pig. The Evo feels neutral and balanced. It's so easy to drive fast. I'm certainly no Schumacher and I couldn't push either car to it's limits. The Evo just works better for me.
I guess the cars just don't feel this way to me. The STi feels like an understeering pig. The Evo feels neutral and balanced. It's so easy to drive fast. I'm certainly no Schumacher and I couldn't push either car to it's limits. The Evo just works better for me.
| Tremec | 07-21-2005 10:19 AM |
[QUOTE=asquaredrex] just works better for me.[/QUOTE]
And that is what really matters!
And that is what really matters!
| funsti | 07-21-2005 11:10 AM |
I think when a lot of people are making the comparison of Evo vs STi they are thinking of the 2004 STi. The helical front LSD in the 2005 STi along with the yaw sensor used in the auto (active) mode of the center diff are significant improvements at least when it comes to autocross.
Also with the STi I think a lot of people never give themselves enough time to learn how to 'drive to the car'. The opinions I read over and over about the Evo is that it's more natural to drive it fast (vs an STi in auto DCCD mode) because it's so predictable with its fixed torque split. I think you really need a fair amount of seat time in an STi to learn how to maximize the benefit of the DCCD in auto mode (either model year).
The Evo also has better steering feel (as well as being a quicker rack) but also has more negative camber up front out of the box than an STi. The STis have something like -0.5 degrees camber up front from the factory.. not even close to where it needs to be but that can be improved by adjusting the factory camber bolts.
Also with the STi I think a lot of people never give themselves enough time to learn how to 'drive to the car'. The opinions I read over and over about the Evo is that it's more natural to drive it fast (vs an STi in auto DCCD mode) because it's so predictable with its fixed torque split. I think you really need a fair amount of seat time in an STi to learn how to maximize the benefit of the DCCD in auto mode (either model year).
The Evo also has better steering feel (as well as being a quicker rack) but also has more negative camber up front out of the box than an STi. The STis have something like -0.5 degrees camber up front from the factory.. not even close to where it needs to be but that can be improved by adjusting the factory camber bolts.
| Arnie | 07-21-2005 11:18 AM |
Yeah, that's one thing I've always wondered a little bit regarding tests. You'd think that a company would optimize their cars for magazine reviews. Don't really need to do any huge mods or anything but geez, a simple performance alignment reaps huge rewards on the Impreza platform. You'd think they would at least max out the front negative camber before they (SOA) handed over a car.
| GRMPer | 07-21-2005 11:50 AM |
Boy, was that a shnitty experience. I still have the very noticeable scar on my left hand. A hanger weld broke...too much vibration under throttle/wheelspin.
Worst. Nationals. Ever.
(Mark still kicked ass.)
Per (driving HS this year in someone else's MINI)
[QUOTE=TyrannoSullyRex]It was interesting seeing him and Per trying to get the damn (side exit) exhaust to stay on the thing (I was working grid), they both never had time to concentrate on driving (it seemed like, they only called a mechanical once IIRC), they were thinking about keeping the car from leaving pieces on course.[/QUOTE]
Worst. Nationals. Ever.
(Mark still kicked ass.)
Per (driving HS this year in someone else's MINI)
[QUOTE=TyrannoSullyRex]It was interesting seeing him and Per trying to get the damn (side exit) exhaust to stay on the thing (I was working grid), they both never had time to concentrate on driving (it seemed like, they only called a mechanical once IIRC), they were thinking about keeping the car from leaving pieces on course.[/QUOTE]
| MrDestructo | 07-21-2005 05:32 PM |
[QUOTE=funsti]
The STis have something like -0.5 degrees camber up front from the factory.. [/QUOTE]
****cough****
The day after I drove my car off the lot two months ago, I brought it by a trusted alignment shop around here. It had +.01 camber L, -.01 camber R, and 1/8" toe-in front and rear. :huh:
Not a good thing for performance driving.
The STis have something like -0.5 degrees camber up front from the factory.. [/QUOTE]
****cough****
The day after I drove my car off the lot two months ago, I brought it by a trusted alignment shop around here. It had +.01 camber L, -.01 camber R, and 1/8" toe-in front and rear. :huh:
Not a good thing for performance driving.
| Arnie | 07-21-2005 05:43 PM |
[QUOTE=MrDestructo]****cough****
The day after I drove my car off the lot two months ago, I brought it by a trusted alignment shop around here. It had +.01 camber L, -.01 camber R, and 1/8" toe-in front and rear. :huh:
Not a good thing for performance driving.[/QUOTE]
and that's probably a good example off the showroom floor! :devil:
The day after I drove my car off the lot two months ago, I brought it by a trusted alignment shop around here. It had +.01 camber L, -.01 camber R, and 1/8" toe-in front and rear. :huh:
Not a good thing for performance driving.[/QUOTE]
and that's probably a good example off the showroom floor! :devil:
| FuJi K | 07-22-2005 02:14 AM |
not many STi owners like to play with the DCCD because fear of breaking it, IMO. If I had the STi, I'd put it to 35:65 F:R 24/7, except in snow. Once you learn how to drive it, it really turns some good times, but our USDM STi is a bit different than the JDM STi. More weight up front and diff sway bar size altogether. Factory alignment isn't the best at all.
You can't really drive the two cars the same way. They both have very different AWD systems EVO VS STi. (Now the EVO MR is a differnt story.)
Some cars come factory better than others, big deal. Do what you want to do to a car for it to meet your needs.
You can't really drive the two cars the same way. They both have very different AWD systems EVO VS STi. (Now the EVO MR is a differnt story.)
Some cars come factory better than others, big deal. Do what you want to do to a car for it to meet your needs.
| AndrewSS | 03-17-2006 08:44 PM |
just a little bump for a pretty good thread, I just got done with the reading it, oh and the C&D article is pretty good about this topic (linked earlier)
[url]http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=9052&page_number=1[/url]
[url]http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=9052&page_number=1[/url]
| Fitz | 03-19-2006 10:11 AM |
Not having too much seat time in an STi, I can only compare my '03 Evo with my GC8. Even with the mods on the GC8, it's not an apples to apples comparison and the advantage could be weighted heavily toward one car or the other.
I think that the Evo is a capable car out of the box. Late inputs and a little left foot braking negate what little understeer tendencies the car has. Overall, in stock trim (minus the Hotchkis springs), the car is relatively neutral and easy to drive at or near to the limit. Braking and steering inputs are superior to any 04 STi w/ Brembo's or GC8 with 4-pots that I've driven.
As pointed out in numerous threads above, the car does have its weaknesses. I've had a few more issues with the Evo than I ever did with the GC8 in stock trim. Intermittent hesitation under cruise. A gear whine that'll make the neighbors dog run for cover. A factory recall (not sure for what, just received the call last week).
Currently the Evo has ~72k miles on it. I made the decision to hold on to the car for awhile verses trading it in. Suspension and tires are on the way. Maybe some power mods down the road.
As a side note, my largest concerns when it comes to the Evo/STi's are price. Let's hope these two fine cars dono't follow the path of the Supra; increasing in MSRP until they're no longer affordable, or able to justify their ~$50k pricetag.
Fitz
[url]www.Flat4Racing.com[/url]
I think that the Evo is a capable car out of the box. Late inputs and a little left foot braking negate what little understeer tendencies the car has. Overall, in stock trim (minus the Hotchkis springs), the car is relatively neutral and easy to drive at or near to the limit. Braking and steering inputs are superior to any 04 STi w/ Brembo's or GC8 with 4-pots that I've driven.
As pointed out in numerous threads above, the car does have its weaknesses. I've had a few more issues with the Evo than I ever did with the GC8 in stock trim. Intermittent hesitation under cruise. A gear whine that'll make the neighbors dog run for cover. A factory recall (not sure for what, just received the call last week).
Currently the Evo has ~72k miles on it. I made the decision to hold on to the car for awhile verses trading it in. Suspension and tires are on the way. Maybe some power mods down the road.
As a side note, my largest concerns when it comes to the Evo/STi's are price. Let's hope these two fine cars dono't follow the path of the Supra; increasing in MSRP until they're no longer affordable, or able to justify their ~$50k pricetag.
Fitz
[url]www.Flat4Racing.com[/url]
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