| shirokuma | 07-28-2003 08:46 PM |
STi Wing FAQ
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STi Wing FAQ
Q. I don't like the STi wing. It's too <insert various opinions>. I'd like to remove it. Should I?
A. Sure. It's your car, your property. You can do anything you like with it, and better yet, you don't really have to ask anybody else if it's ok. My cousin used to throw hatchets at his car door to see if it would stick. I didn't think it was a good idea, but it's his ride.
Q. The Reason is because I think it's just a bling-bling wing that's only there to make it look ricey. There is no way it could have any actual handling benefits because it's the <insert various opinions here>.
A. Wrong. I won't dazzle you with various theories and diagrams. Simply enough, I have driven a STi 8 Spec C RA and Standard back to back around the same track for several laps. On the same day, several other professional drivers, up to and including race drivers, noticed exactly the same thing. The STi with the wing was significantly more stable in high-speed corners than the STi RA without the wing (it had the small WRX turbo wing instead). The STi RA is indeed faster around the course, but that was because it was some 300 odd lbs lighter, especially up top, and it had a better turbo. If the RA had the aero, it would have been faster yet.
Q. I took the wing off my car, and driving fast around corners/twisties, it felt very stable.
A. The answer to this is real easy. You weren't driving very fast. You felt like you were driving fast. You may indeed had been driving at your limits. You were, however, not driving at the car's limits. Don't feel bad, very few of us can. That's why most of us pay to drive cars, instead of being paid to drive a car. Also, you didn't drive the car at it's limits with the wing and then without, on the same day in the twisties.
The STi is not going to go off the road backwards simply because the wing is removed. The difference in handling can be summed up this way: With the wing, you are driving on a dry road. Without the wing, you are driving on a slightly wet road. You have nearly the same traction, but there is an extra 1 or 2% available with the wing than without.
Q. That really doesn't sound like much.
A. In racing, that's the difference between winning and losing.
Q. But I don't race around road courses.
A. Most STi owners won't. However, the STi was designed [b]specifically[/b] for road course racing and rally racing. It was not designed to be a boulevard cruiser like the M3. You don't need those big brembo brakes, the heavy duty suspension, the oil cooler and all the other heavy duty components for street driving. They are there for one purpose, and one purpose only. Racing. That may not be the purpose that you bought it for, but I assure you, from the very top of STi down, that was their intention for it.
Q. I still want to remove it!
A. See my first answer! It's OK! It's [b]your[/b] car! You are free to paint it STi pink, to put 20" dubs on, to slam it to the ground and put in 200lbs of audio equipment. Just don't expect any track racers to say anything nice about that!
Q. But I've seen the Spec C's and RA's in Japan being tested, and they never have that wing!
A. The RA model (any year) is a stripped, race team ready model. People that will use the car mainly to race are going to strip the interior out, the brakes, the wing and the front bumper, and a whole bunch of other components. STi, being actually concerned about racing, decided to provide a model specifically for that reason - the RA - which is significantly cheaper than the standard STi. There are two versions of the RA. The Real Stripper - 15" wheels, small cheap brakes, no options at all. Then there is the "street" stripper for owners that want to occasionally race, or at least look like it. That ships with the big wheel and brake package, a/c, and other options. It however doesn't ship with the aero aids, those are extra options.
Q. Why doesn't the various Japanese automotive magazine testers use an RA with the wing, if it is faster?
A. [B]The Rules[/B]. The option list for the RA is the basis for a multi-page catalog. It's quite big, and filled with every need for outright racing. The same for the Evo RS, the Skyline GT-R, and quite a few other models. For instance, you could order a Skyline GT-R with a full NISMO package from the dealer, and drive off the lot with some 600hp. See, the problem is that once you open Pandora's box, it would get out of control. So the manufacturers stick to the Rules, they only provide set packages to the reporters, and the reporters only compare those. They may bend the rules sometimes, but they don't break them.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
[url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]
Q. I don't like the STi wing. It's too <insert various opinions>. I'd like to remove it. Should I?
A. Sure. It's your car, your property. You can do anything you like with it, and better yet, you don't really have to ask anybody else if it's ok. My cousin used to throw hatchets at his car door to see if it would stick. I didn't think it was a good idea, but it's his ride.
Q. The Reason is because I think it's just a bling-bling wing that's only there to make it look ricey. There is no way it could have any actual handling benefits because it's the <insert various opinions here>.
A. Wrong. I won't dazzle you with various theories and diagrams. Simply enough, I have driven a STi 8 Spec C RA and Standard back to back around the same track for several laps. On the same day, several other professional drivers, up to and including race drivers, noticed exactly the same thing. The STi with the wing was significantly more stable in high-speed corners than the STi RA without the wing (it had the small WRX turbo wing instead). The STi RA is indeed faster around the course, but that was because it was some 300 odd lbs lighter, especially up top, and it had a better turbo. If the RA had the aero, it would have been faster yet.
Q. I took the wing off my car, and driving fast around corners/twisties, it felt very stable.
A. The answer to this is real easy. You weren't driving very fast. You felt like you were driving fast. You may indeed had been driving at your limits. You were, however, not driving at the car's limits. Don't feel bad, very few of us can. That's why most of us pay to drive cars, instead of being paid to drive a car. Also, you didn't drive the car at it's limits with the wing and then without, on the same day in the twisties.
The STi is not going to go off the road backwards simply because the wing is removed. The difference in handling can be summed up this way: With the wing, you are driving on a dry road. Without the wing, you are driving on a slightly wet road. You have nearly the same traction, but there is an extra 1 or 2% available with the wing than without.
Q. That really doesn't sound like much.
A. In racing, that's the difference between winning and losing.
Q. But I don't race around road courses.
A. Most STi owners won't. However, the STi was designed [b]specifically[/b] for road course racing and rally racing. It was not designed to be a boulevard cruiser like the M3. You don't need those big brembo brakes, the heavy duty suspension, the oil cooler and all the other heavy duty components for street driving. They are there for one purpose, and one purpose only. Racing. That may not be the purpose that you bought it for, but I assure you, from the very top of STi down, that was their intention for it.
Q. I still want to remove it!
A. See my first answer! It's OK! It's [b]your[/b] car! You are free to paint it STi pink, to put 20" dubs on, to slam it to the ground and put in 200lbs of audio equipment. Just don't expect any track racers to say anything nice about that!
Q. But I've seen the Spec C's and RA's in Japan being tested, and they never have that wing!
A. The RA model (any year) is a stripped, race team ready model. People that will use the car mainly to race are going to strip the interior out, the brakes, the wing and the front bumper, and a whole bunch of other components. STi, being actually concerned about racing, decided to provide a model specifically for that reason - the RA - which is significantly cheaper than the standard STi. There are two versions of the RA. The Real Stripper - 15" wheels, small cheap brakes, no options at all. Then there is the "street" stripper for owners that want to occasionally race, or at least look like it. That ships with the big wheel and brake package, a/c, and other options. It however doesn't ship with the aero aids, those are extra options.
Q. Why doesn't the various Japanese automotive magazine testers use an RA with the wing, if it is faster?
A. [B]The Rules[/B]. The option list for the RA is the basis for a multi-page catalog. It's quite big, and filled with every need for outright racing. The same for the Evo RS, the Skyline GT-R, and quite a few other models. For instance, you could order a Skyline GT-R with a full NISMO package from the dealer, and drive off the lot with some 600hp. See, the problem is that once you open Pandora's box, it would get out of control. So the manufacturers stick to the Rules, they only provide set packages to the reporters, and the reporters only compare those. They may bend the rules sometimes, but they don't break them.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
[url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]
| Jejunum | 07-28-2003 08:52 PM |
nice! can i take of my wing :)
| metoo | 07-28-2003 09:20 PM |
Q: So are you saying that if you don't drive the car to its limits (or simply don't have the ability too, the wing is little more than decoration for boulevard bashing?
| JLMarx | 07-28-2003 09:29 PM |
Best STi Forum post evAr. I couldn't agee more. Thanks, Paul. :)
| offset | 07-28-2003 09:32 PM |
Thanks for the write up Paul. I understand your frustration with all the bickering about the wing. And I know it can provide a significant increase in stability. But even though I know you want to see an end to all of the repetitive threads here; I would like to re-phrase what a lot of people are trying to ask when they talk about whether or not it would hurt to take off the wing, because I feel like they are not effectively communicating their question.
A lot of times I think the question is... "Does the wing matter for daily driving (as in commuting to work) even if I drive it a little (or a lot) above what the law allows?"
[QUOTE]
Q. I took the wing off my car, and driving fast around corners/twisties, it felt very stable.
A. The answer to this is real easy. You weren't driving very fast. You felt like you were driving fast. You may indeed had been driving at your limits. You were, however, not driving at the car's limits. Don't feel bad, very few of us can. That's why most of us pay to drive cars, instead of being paid to drive a car. Also, you didn't drive the car at it's limits with the wing and then without, on the same day in the twisties.
[/QUOTE]
I personally have no doubt that taking a sweeper at high speeds on the track you can feel the difference in stability. Well, I would like to see anyone drive the STi to its limits along the same roads that I take to work every day. (On a side note though, I gaurentee that when a deer jumps out from the trees that line the road, those Brembo's won't just be for racing.) So my belief is that anyone asking that question is only asking concerning driving the STi to its 'reasonable' limits in on public streets. I would never drive it that flat out because you will eventaully spin out or worse thanks to rocks or road kill or anything else. But I can drive a lot more spirited and still not need the wing.
I would be a fool if I thought I could drive any track and not have a tremendous disadvantage without the wing. So I have personally made my decision. I am simply buying a second trunk lid (wingless); but still keeping the original deck with the wing. For my typical daily driving, even with a little more wreckless abandon than I should, I do not believe I will miss the wing at all. But if and when I feel like taking it to the track I will swap trunk lids. I would be quick to bet that I could swap my trunk lid faster than anyone could swap on a set of race wheels and tires.
I just have to believe that anyone wanting to take off the wing already has no intentions of pushing the STi to its true limits; and that they are intelligent enough to know what the wing does actually provide. As for anyone who thinks the wing does nothing at all, probably also belives that they can take a hairpin curve on an old country road covered in gravel at night while it is snowing and the sparkomatic radio is blasting; have also been indulging in something else as well. Ok, I got a little carried away there.
Final point is that I don't believe the wing will do much for those people that want to drive hard on public streets; but realize that they are not willing to push it far enough to have any major accidents. And that anyone who takes there STi to the track already realizes the difference and wouldn't bother asking about it. Also, if a person wants to go screw around, drift, or do donuts in a large paved area to show off and have fun, then it doesn't really matter how stable the car is now does it?
offset
A lot of times I think the question is... "Does the wing matter for daily driving (as in commuting to work) even if I drive it a little (or a lot) above what the law allows?"
[QUOTE]
Q. I took the wing off my car, and driving fast around corners/twisties, it felt very stable.
A. The answer to this is real easy. You weren't driving very fast. You felt like you were driving fast. You may indeed had been driving at your limits. You were, however, not driving at the car's limits. Don't feel bad, very few of us can. That's why most of us pay to drive cars, instead of being paid to drive a car. Also, you didn't drive the car at it's limits with the wing and then without, on the same day in the twisties.
[/QUOTE]
I personally have no doubt that taking a sweeper at high speeds on the track you can feel the difference in stability. Well, I would like to see anyone drive the STi to its limits along the same roads that I take to work every day. (On a side note though, I gaurentee that when a deer jumps out from the trees that line the road, those Brembo's won't just be for racing.) So my belief is that anyone asking that question is only asking concerning driving the STi to its 'reasonable' limits in on public streets. I would never drive it that flat out because you will eventaully spin out or worse thanks to rocks or road kill or anything else. But I can drive a lot more spirited and still not need the wing.
I would be a fool if I thought I could drive any track and not have a tremendous disadvantage without the wing. So I have personally made my decision. I am simply buying a second trunk lid (wingless); but still keeping the original deck with the wing. For my typical daily driving, even with a little more wreckless abandon than I should, I do not believe I will miss the wing at all. But if and when I feel like taking it to the track I will swap trunk lids. I would be quick to bet that I could swap my trunk lid faster than anyone could swap on a set of race wheels and tires.
I just have to believe that anyone wanting to take off the wing already has no intentions of pushing the STi to its true limits; and that they are intelligent enough to know what the wing does actually provide. As for anyone who thinks the wing does nothing at all, probably also belives that they can take a hairpin curve on an old country road covered in gravel at night while it is snowing and the sparkomatic radio is blasting; have also been indulging in something else as well. Ok, I got a little carried away there.
Final point is that I don't believe the wing will do much for those people that want to drive hard on public streets; but realize that they are not willing to push it far enough to have any major accidents. And that anyone who takes there STi to the track already realizes the difference and wouldn't bother asking about it. Also, if a person wants to go screw around, drift, or do donuts in a large paved area to show off and have fun, then it doesn't really matter how stable the car is now does it?
offset
| shirokuma | 07-28-2003 09:36 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by metoo [/i]
[B]Q: So are you saying that if you don't drive the car to its limits (or simply don't have the ability too, the wing is little more than decoration for boulevard bashing? [/B][/QUOTE]
A. Correct. However, at this point, the brakes, wheels, rubber, inverted struts, DCCD, lightweight glass, ARB's, and a host of other parts are little more than decoration also. A WRX turbo with some select investment in power-up goodies is a wiser investment.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
[url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]
[B]Q: So are you saying that if you don't drive the car to its limits (or simply don't have the ability too, the wing is little more than decoration for boulevard bashing? [/B][/QUOTE]
A. Correct. However, at this point, the brakes, wheels, rubber, inverted struts, DCCD, lightweight glass, ARB's, and a host of other parts are little more than decoration also. A WRX turbo with some select investment in power-up goodies is a wiser investment.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
[url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]
| shirokuma | 07-28-2003 09:47 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by offset [/i]
[B]A lot of times I think the question is... "Does the wing matter for daily driving (as in commuting to work) even if I drive it a little (or a lot) above what the law allows?"
I personally have no doubt that taking a sweeper at high speeds on the track you can feel the difference in stability. Well, I would like to see anyone drive the STi to its limits along the same roads that I take to work every day. (On a side note though, I gaurentee that when a deer jumps out from the trees that line the road, those Brembo's won't just be for racing.) [/B][/QUOTE]
The Brembo's actually wouldn't do much for you at this point over a cheaper set of 2-pot floating calipers of roughly the same size. The Brembo's are there because of brake fade when braking frequently and hard - at the track, in other words. A street setup would actually work a bit better at the temperatures that you experience on the street, and possibly would stop sooner than the Brembo's in that environment.
Daily driving - there's no easy answer to that, because The Car and daily driving are at opposite ends of the driving spectrum. My personal answer to it is that I would buy a Honda Civic for daily driving, given that very little performance is involved in commuting for the vast majority of people, thus I would simply be compromising gas mileage, comfort and ease of use simply because I want more power in handling in stop and go traffic... The problem here is that this is roughly equivelant to those race-prepped porsches that are infrequently released (or Ferrari's, M3's, Z06's, etc.). While they are street cars, and you can definitely commute in them, their purpose is for something completely different. The STi's strength and weakness is it's price - it's cheap and it's versatile because of it's 4 doors. Normally, cars in this level are much much more, and are bought by people that have several vehicles and wouldn't think of commuting with it.
People want to remove the wing because they are using it as a primary car (again, their choice). Which is fine, but it wasn't created for that. Thus the question keeps coming up, and thus the FAQ.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
[url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]
[B]A lot of times I think the question is... "Does the wing matter for daily driving (as in commuting to work) even if I drive it a little (or a lot) above what the law allows?"
I personally have no doubt that taking a sweeper at high speeds on the track you can feel the difference in stability. Well, I would like to see anyone drive the STi to its limits along the same roads that I take to work every day. (On a side note though, I gaurentee that when a deer jumps out from the trees that line the road, those Brembo's won't just be for racing.) [/B][/QUOTE]
The Brembo's actually wouldn't do much for you at this point over a cheaper set of 2-pot floating calipers of roughly the same size. The Brembo's are there because of brake fade when braking frequently and hard - at the track, in other words. A street setup would actually work a bit better at the temperatures that you experience on the street, and possibly would stop sooner than the Brembo's in that environment.
Daily driving - there's no easy answer to that, because The Car and daily driving are at opposite ends of the driving spectrum. My personal answer to it is that I would buy a Honda Civic for daily driving, given that very little performance is involved in commuting for the vast majority of people, thus I would simply be compromising gas mileage, comfort and ease of use simply because I want more power in handling in stop and go traffic... The problem here is that this is roughly equivelant to those race-prepped porsches that are infrequently released (or Ferrari's, M3's, Z06's, etc.). While they are street cars, and you can definitely commute in them, their purpose is for something completely different. The STi's strength and weakness is it's price - it's cheap and it's versatile because of it's 4 doors. Normally, cars in this level are much much more, and are bought by people that have several vehicles and wouldn't think of commuting with it.
People want to remove the wing because they are using it as a primary car (again, their choice). Which is fine, but it wasn't created for that. Thus the question keeps coming up, and thus the FAQ.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
[url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]
| Zoso | 07-28-2003 11:03 PM |
The STi is one of the few cars that actually look good with a big wing. The fact that it is functional and benefical makes it even more beautiful.
| HFTuRbo | 07-29-2003 03:38 AM |
Got wing?
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[QUOTE]the brakes, wheels, rubber, inverted struts, DCCD, lightweight glass, ARB's, and a host of other parts are little more than decoration also. A WRX turbo with some select investment in power-up goodies is a wiser investment[/QUOTE]
1st... thanks Paul for all of the info. You've spent some time in your "faq" and replies and the data is well received.
For most of us the RA would have been the better choice. We could have then went through the giant catalog and picked the preferred options to make the STi as we wanted it. The only problem is ~ is that the RA wasn't offered. The stock STi in U.S. form is what we have to work with.
I've just gone over the magical 1,000 mile mark and it's a given that this car is a track monster and not the typical daily driver.
However I do not believe that a WRX w/investments is a wiser investment, because you have to trust the installers with everything. Other than the brakes and the light-weight glass, which are decoration, the rest of the mentioned components above are working well for street use. This also includes the wing... I have noticed an extreme improvement in buffeting stability even at legal speeds. Don't lose faith in everyone!
1st... thanks Paul for all of the info. You've spent some time in your "faq" and replies and the data is well received.
For most of us the RA would have been the better choice. We could have then went through the giant catalog and picked the preferred options to make the STi as we wanted it. The only problem is ~ is that the RA wasn't offered. The stock STi in U.S. form is what we have to work with.
I've just gone over the magical 1,000 mile mark and it's a given that this car is a track monster and not the typical daily driver.
However I do not believe that a WRX w/investments is a wiser investment, because you have to trust the installers with everything. Other than the brakes and the light-weight glass, which are decoration, the rest of the mentioned components above are working well for street use. This also includes the wing... I have noticed an extreme improvement in buffeting stability even at legal speeds. Don't lose faith in everyone!
| ldivinag | 07-29-2003 05:18 AM |
great... but where's the DCCD faq???
:banana: :banana: :banana:
:banana: :banana: :banana:
| offset | 07-29-2003 07:22 AM |
I would be inclined to agree that buying a Civic for a daily driver is a smart option. That is why I am keeping my current Civic for some of that :) Although I still disagree about the brakes, I don't want to start turning this wing faq into a war over brakes so I will let that go for now. I do apprecite the faq though as it is accurate the way you have presented it and should hopefully help anyone wanting to ask that question.
offset
offset
| robmarch | 07-29-2003 07:56 AM |
Nice writeup, it clearly answers the questions everyone asks. I also think the best compromise for people who don't like the wing for daily driving is to have a second trunk, and swap trunks for track days.
Have a good one.
Have a good one.
| briank | 07-29-2003 08:58 AM |
Oops, Paul already said what I posted.
| ha-evolution | 07-29-2003 09:15 AM |
I would never remove the STi wing as the car looks very boring without it. The reqular WRX wing is just plain ugly IMO.
I agree the STi is wasted as a daily driver, that's why I bought a Del Slo. At double the gas mileage (35 vs 18) it's way more economical and makes driving the STi a real treat. The pop-off top is fun but it really feels like a gutless wonder after driving the STi though. A B18C swap may be needed in the near future.
I agree the STi is wasted as a daily driver, that's why I bought a Del Slo. At double the gas mileage (35 vs 18) it's way more economical and makes driving the STi a real treat. The pop-off top is fun but it really feels like a gutless wonder after driving the STi though. A B18C swap may be needed in the near future.
| ShockWave | 07-29-2003 09:36 AM |
While I am undecided on what to do with the wing (I know these wings will end up the tailfins of our generation), and I agree that the STi has more go fast parts than a typical commuter/street cruiser, I would add that much depends on your perspective.
Given that I am coming out of an aging Ford Mustang (inheireted, not my choice), the 'racer' STi feels a world more practicle. It has four doors, climate control, I can reach the controls without leaning out of my seat, and is safer than my last car. True, traffic can be a pain at times, but I feel much more comfortable in the STi.
Course, I can't say I'm above a warm fuzzy feeling when I see another car person checking out the ride :cool: I admit that may have had a hand in my purchase.
Given that I am coming out of an aging Ford Mustang (inheireted, not my choice), the 'racer' STi feels a world more practicle. It has four doors, climate control, I can reach the controls without leaning out of my seat, and is safer than my last car. True, traffic can be a pain at times, but I feel much more comfortable in the STi.
Course, I can't say I'm above a warm fuzzy feeling when I see another car person checking out the ride :cool: I admit that may have had a hand in my purchase.
| JDMSubaru | 07-29-2003 04:14 PM |
Would an STi wing fit on a reg WRX? And would it look good?
I think buying the non STi WRX is quite a good idea. It's a steal at < $23,000 and is pretty damn fast for all intents and purposes in regards to a daily driver...
I'm a proud new owner of an 03 and both very happy and satisfied with my purchase. :banana:
I think buying the non STi WRX is quite a good idea. It's a steal at < $23,000 and is pretty damn fast for all intents and purposes in regards to a daily driver...
I'm a proud new owner of an 03 and both very happy and satisfied with my purchase. :banana:
| robmarch | 07-29-2003 04:24 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JDMSubaru [/i]
[B]Would an STi wing fit on a reg WRX? And would it look good?
I think buying the non STi WRX is quite a good idea. It's a steal at < $23,000 and is pretty damn fast for all intents and purposes in regards to a daily driver...
I'm a proud new owner of an 03 and both very happy and satisfied with my purchase. :banana: [/B][/QUOTE]
the STi wing would fit. As for whether it looks good or not, the fact that that is so debatable is the reason for this thread. If you like it, go for it.
[B]Would an STi wing fit on a reg WRX? And would it look good?
I think buying the non STi WRX is quite a good idea. It's a steal at < $23,000 and is pretty damn fast for all intents and purposes in regards to a daily driver...
I'm a proud new owner of an 03 and both very happy and satisfied with my purchase. :banana: [/B][/QUOTE]
the STi wing would fit. As for whether it looks good or not, the fact that that is so debatable is the reason for this thread. If you like it, go for it.
| thrashvr6 | 07-29-2003 07:02 PM |
Re: STi Wing FAQ
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shirokuma [/i]
[B]STi Wing FAQ
Q. But I don't race around road courses.
A. Most STi owners won't. However, the STi was designed [b]specifically[/b] for road course racing and rally racing.
[/B][/QUOTE]
So, uh, which is it? I can't help but think that the big wing would be more beneficial at lower speeds, ala rally racing. At flat out high speed, the big wing is negative horsepower. (Might be why the Spec C in your example was faster..)
Anyhow, I understand what you're getting at, but is there really a form of racing the STI was built for? It comes with street tires, a non-adjustable suspension, ordinary seatbelts, etc. It's not a race car. It's really easy to make it into one, but I would suggest that right off the lot, it's meant for boulevard cruising as much as an M3..
And most people probably don't need the wing. I agree with your general point: do what you want and be happy. This place has the wierdest set of standards for what people should or shouldn't do I have ever seen.
[B]STi Wing FAQ
Q. But I don't race around road courses.
A. Most STi owners won't. However, the STi was designed [b]specifically[/b] for road course racing and rally racing.
[/B][/QUOTE]
So, uh, which is it? I can't help but think that the big wing would be more beneficial at lower speeds, ala rally racing. At flat out high speed, the big wing is negative horsepower. (Might be why the Spec C in your example was faster..)
Anyhow, I understand what you're getting at, but is there really a form of racing the STI was built for? It comes with street tires, a non-adjustable suspension, ordinary seatbelts, etc. It's not a race car. It's really easy to make it into one, but I would suggest that right off the lot, it's meant for boulevard cruising as much as an M3..
And most people probably don't need the wing. I agree with your general point: do what you want and be happy. This place has the wierdest set of standards for what people should or shouldn't do I have ever seen.
| WReXinEfX | 07-29-2003 07:45 PM |
The reason why most [i]"Amerriicans"[/i] want to take off the wing because they don't want to be associated with this example:
[IMG]http://images3.fotki.com/v33/photos/6/65438/300915/Dsc00985-vi.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://images3.fotki.com/v33/photos/6/65438/300915/Dsc00985-vi.jpg[/IMG]
| 300blueballs | 07-29-2003 08:20 PM |
Re: Re: STi Wing FAQ
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by thrashvr6 [/i]
[B]
So, uh, which is it? I can't help but think that the big wing would be more beneficial at lower speeds, ala rally racing. At flat out high speed, the big wing is negative horsepower. (Might be why the Spec C in your example was faster..)B][/QUOTE]
The wing is not supposed to help you go faster. It creates downforce by the way the wind flows over it especially at high speeds. Since the car has a rear wheel bias this will give you extra traction which is especially important around turns.
[B]
So, uh, which is it? I can't help but think that the big wing would be more beneficial at lower speeds, ala rally racing. At flat out high speed, the big wing is negative horsepower. (Might be why the Spec C in your example was faster..)B][/QUOTE]
The wing is not supposed to help you go faster. It creates downforce by the way the wind flows over it especially at high speeds. Since the car has a rear wheel bias this will give you extra traction which is especially important around turns.
| shirokuma | 07-29-2003 08:30 PM |
Re: Re: STi Wing FAQ
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by thrashvr6 [/i]
[B]
So, uh, which is it? I can't help but think that the big wing would be more beneficial at lower speeds, ala rally racing. At flat out high speed, the big wing is negative horsepower. (Might be why the Spec C in your example was faster..)
Anyhow, I understand what you're getting at, but is there really a form of racing the STI was built for? It comes with street tires, a non-adjustable suspension, ordinary seatbelts, etc. It's not a race car. It's really easy to make it into one, but I would suggest that right off the lot, it's meant for boulevard cruising as much as an M3..[/B][/QUOTE]
As a SCCA stock racer, for instance, it will do plenty of damage. The wing works at lower speeds, I suppose, if you consider 70-150mph lower speeds. That translates well into high-speed corners at road courses. Road course racing doesn't take place at 140+ mph speeds only - most of the time you are doing much less than that due to aforementioned corners. And that's where the extra stability of the aerodynamics shine.
As for seatbelts, it's a common misconception that 4 or 5-point belts should be available/standard on cars like these. However, the standard 3-point is safer until you've installed the proper equipment to mount the 4 or 5-point belts to. Such as a real roll cage. Really. The 3-point doesn't feel as secure as a 4 or 5 point, but it's safer in a crash. A lot safer. And yes, the car has to ship with street rubber - exactly how are you going to legally drive it off the lot then? And if it did ship with the adjustable suspension, exactly how much are the majority of non-racing owners willing to pay for that?
Also, without actual wind tunnel aero data, it's not quite correct to state that the rear wing is negative hp at high speeds. If the STi's general profile was highly aerodynamic, I would agree, but it's not. And around the rear, the stock non-winged WRX lends to a very messy aero flow at high speeds. The rear wing may actually clean up the air flow at the rear - which would give it less drag, not more. It's been discussed better in the Other thread, but the wing isn't pushing the rear down, it's keeping the rear from lifting up.
Every single car, even the McLaren, would need some prep for racing. However, many race series will have rules that basically state you have to use the stock setup for most areas - thus a prepped "stock" STi would romp over many other "stock" prepped cars because of the racing level equipment that it does ship with.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
[url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]
[B]
So, uh, which is it? I can't help but think that the big wing would be more beneficial at lower speeds, ala rally racing. At flat out high speed, the big wing is negative horsepower. (Might be why the Spec C in your example was faster..)
Anyhow, I understand what you're getting at, but is there really a form of racing the STI was built for? It comes with street tires, a non-adjustable suspension, ordinary seatbelts, etc. It's not a race car. It's really easy to make it into one, but I would suggest that right off the lot, it's meant for boulevard cruising as much as an M3..[/B][/QUOTE]
As a SCCA stock racer, for instance, it will do plenty of damage. The wing works at lower speeds, I suppose, if you consider 70-150mph lower speeds. That translates well into high-speed corners at road courses. Road course racing doesn't take place at 140+ mph speeds only - most of the time you are doing much less than that due to aforementioned corners. And that's where the extra stability of the aerodynamics shine.
As for seatbelts, it's a common misconception that 4 or 5-point belts should be available/standard on cars like these. However, the standard 3-point is safer until you've installed the proper equipment to mount the 4 or 5-point belts to. Such as a real roll cage. Really. The 3-point doesn't feel as secure as a 4 or 5 point, but it's safer in a crash. A lot safer. And yes, the car has to ship with street rubber - exactly how are you going to legally drive it off the lot then? And if it did ship with the adjustable suspension, exactly how much are the majority of non-racing owners willing to pay for that?
Also, without actual wind tunnel aero data, it's not quite correct to state that the rear wing is negative hp at high speeds. If the STi's general profile was highly aerodynamic, I would agree, but it's not. And around the rear, the stock non-winged WRX lends to a very messy aero flow at high speeds. The rear wing may actually clean up the air flow at the rear - which would give it less drag, not more. It's been discussed better in the Other thread, but the wing isn't pushing the rear down, it's keeping the rear from lifting up.
Every single car, even the McLaren, would need some prep for racing. However, many race series will have rules that basically state you have to use the stock setup for most areas - thus a prepped "stock" STi would romp over many other "stock" prepped cars because of the racing level equipment that it does ship with.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
[url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]
| WReXinEfX | 07-29-2003 08:43 PM |
I have an 02' WRX, on the highway I was weaving through traffic at above 60mph, as I was changing lane for a pass around another car the tail of my car wiggled. It has nothing to do with uneven surfaces, I felt the car was not as planted at high speed manuvers.
Later on, I installed a STI CF wing and I noticed immediately that driving 80-120mph, changing lanes felt like it was only 50mph. Not as hairy, the car was very planted.
I say most people who do not notice the difference on the road without the wing is most likely not driving fast enough.
Later on, I installed a STI CF wing and I noticed immediately that driving 80-120mph, changing lanes felt like it was only 50mph. Not as hairy, the car was very planted.
I say most people who do not notice the difference on the road without the wing is most likely not driving fast enough.
| tee_rexx | 07-29-2003 09:54 PM |
Thanks again Paul. The voice of reason. I have said it before and I will say it again. The wing virtually defines the car. The fact that it's also functional is an added bonus. I love to see it moving around in my rear window..... Well, err, OK.....the more I drive my STi the more I love the whole car. Subaru really got it right. I thought I would miss my WRX, now I don't think I could ever go back. :)
| 944 turbo guy | 07-30-2003 12:11 AM |
Dr "PH" is in the house...
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As I always say,.when Paul H. speaks , people listen.
944 turbo guy
944 turbo guy
| subimp6u08 | 07-30-2003 03:56 AM |
i got the sti spoiler on my 02 red wrx
and with jaguar taillights ...people thinks i have red sti
:lol: :lol: :lol:
it looks good!!!
the only different thing from the real sti wing is the different colored 3rd brake light. mine's red, so it matches with my red car.
and with jaguar taillights ...people thinks i have red sti
:lol: :lol: :lol:
it looks good!!!
the only different thing from the real sti wing is the different colored 3rd brake light. mine's red, so it matches with my red car.
| robmarch | 07-30-2003 08:05 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by tee_rexx [/i]
[B]I have said it before and I will say it again. The wing virtually defines the car. The fact that it's also functional is an added bonus. [/B][/QUOTE]
Same with those [COLOR=orange]cute[/COLOR] gold calipers, they totally define the car for me. I'm pretty sure they are heavier, so they degrade the performance of the car, but the fact that they're gold totally defines the car, in my opinion. Other cars might have shiny silver, painted black, or maybe even red, but the STi has gold! wow!
although, now that I think about it, it's really all of the [COLOR=deeppink]pink STi stickers[/COLOR] that define the car. I mean, how many other cars do you see out there with pink stickers? The pink stickers definitely define the car. The fact that the pink stickers add horsepower is an added bonus, also, I guess.
p.s. yes, I'm kidding.
[B]I have said it before and I will say it again. The wing virtually defines the car. The fact that it's also functional is an added bonus. [/B][/QUOTE]
Same with those [COLOR=orange]cute[/COLOR] gold calipers, they totally define the car for me. I'm pretty sure they are heavier, so they degrade the performance of the car, but the fact that they're gold totally defines the car, in my opinion. Other cars might have shiny silver, painted black, or maybe even red, but the STi has gold! wow!
although, now that I think about it, it's really all of the [COLOR=deeppink]pink STi stickers[/COLOR] that define the car. I mean, how many other cars do you see out there with pink stickers? The pink stickers definitely define the car. The fact that the pink stickers add horsepower is an added bonus, also, I guess.
p.s. yes, I'm kidding.
| shirokuma | 07-30-2003 08:18 AM |
Q. So what's up with with STi using pink? Are they, well, limp-wristed or something?
A. Over many years here, I've thought about this deeply. I believe I've come up with an answer. The Japanese are color blind.
Ok, no, it's not that, but their sense of color is quite different than people overseas. While you rarely see the worst examples (like their Sydney Olympic outfits), they certainly have some whoppers. They have started to notice, however, for certain STi parts in Japan are now painted blue, or come as polished aluminum.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
[url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]
A. Over many years here, I've thought about this deeply. I believe I've come up with an answer. The Japanese are color blind.
Ok, no, it's not that, but their sense of color is quite different than people overseas. While you rarely see the worst examples (like their Sydney Olympic outfits), they certainly have some whoppers. They have started to notice, however, for certain STi parts in Japan are now painted blue, or come as polished aluminum.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
[url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]
| KoneKiller | 07-30-2003 09:47 AM |
Rob, I spent 4 hours yesterday calculating the weight of all the paint on the car.
First, I took four 1cm x 1cm samples of paint from both vertical and horizontal surfaces of an STi (to be totally scientific, I picked a random one parked at a movie theater). I weighed these pieces on a precision scale and then, using a sophisticated photogrammetric model, calculated the total painted surface area of the STi.
The STi has almost 100kg of paint on it!!
So, the question is... does the paint really DO anything other than look nice? Does paint really make the car go faster or is it just for show?
I mean, the chassis is all galvanized, right? Not like it will rust, besides, we can phosphate dip it, if we must.
Do you think we can make any money by starting a 'depainting' service?
:lol: :lol:
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by robmarch [/i]
[B]
Same with those [COLOR=orange]cute[/COLOR] gold calipers, they totally define the car for me. I'm pretty sure they are heavier, so they degrade the performance of the car, but the fact that they're gold totally defines the car, in my opinion. Other cars might have shiny silver, painted black, or maybe even red, but the STi has gold! wow!
p.s. yes, I'm kidding. [/B][/QUOTE]
First, I took four 1cm x 1cm samples of paint from both vertical and horizontal surfaces of an STi (to be totally scientific, I picked a random one parked at a movie theater). I weighed these pieces on a precision scale and then, using a sophisticated photogrammetric model, calculated the total painted surface area of the STi.
The STi has almost 100kg of paint on it!!
So, the question is... does the paint really DO anything other than look nice? Does paint really make the car go faster or is it just for show?
I mean, the chassis is all galvanized, right? Not like it will rust, besides, we can phosphate dip it, if we must.
Do you think we can make any money by starting a 'depainting' service?
:lol: :lol:
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by robmarch [/i]
[B]
Same with those [COLOR=orange]cute[/COLOR] gold calipers, they totally define the car for me. I'm pretty sure they are heavier, so they degrade the performance of the car, but the fact that they're gold totally defines the car, in my opinion. Other cars might have shiny silver, painted black, or maybe even red, but the STi has gold! wow!
p.s. yes, I'm kidding. [/B][/QUOTE]
| filbert | 07-30-2003 09:59 AM |
There's some big japanese modifier that only makes pink cars... basically just so he can look "different" since no one else uses pink. Maybe STi had the same idea for all their cars.
| robmarch | 07-30-2003 10:06 AM |
don't get me wrong, I understand the cultural difference in that their pink is considered an aggressive color, almost like our red. That doesn't mean I have to like it though :) I was just trying to make the point that the wing is not a very critical part of the mix for making the STi what it is, in my opinion. Like maybe the AWD. or the Turbo. or the performance/price excellence.
And, don't bother giving me your dissertation on how changing anything on the car is sacreligious, either. Everyone has a different idea of what makes the perfect car.
KoneKiller - not a bad idea. I have thought for a while that cars would look pretty cool without paint, as long as they didn't rust. Just polish up the aluminum surfaces, make everything else carbon fiber, and it should be good to go ;)
And, don't bother giving me your dissertation on how changing anything on the car is sacreligious, either. Everyone has a different idea of what makes the perfect car.
KoneKiller - not a bad idea. I have thought for a while that cars would look pretty cool without paint, as long as they didn't rust. Just polish up the aluminum surfaces, make everything else carbon fiber, and it should be good to go ;)
| 300blueballs | 07-30-2003 01:19 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by subimp6u08 [/i]
[B]i got the sti spoiler on my 02 red wrx
and with jaguar taillights ...people thinks i have red sti
:lol: :lol: :lol:
it looks good!!!
the only different thing from the real sti wing is the different colored 3rd brake light. mine's red, so it matches with my red car. [/B][/QUOTE]
that would be interesting to see... Pics???
[B]i got the sti spoiler on my 02 red wrx
and with jaguar taillights ...people thinks i have red sti
:lol: :lol: :lol:
it looks good!!!
the only different thing from the real sti wing is the different colored 3rd brake light. mine's red, so it matches with my red car. [/B][/QUOTE]
that would be interesting to see... Pics???
| filbert | 07-30-2003 01:49 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by robmarch [/i]
[B]I have thought for a while that cars would look pretty cool without paint, as long as they didn't rust. Just polish up the aluminum surfaces, make everything else carbon fiber, and it should be good to go ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
Every once in a while, a concept car comes out with a mirror finish. For instance the Audi Avus was a mirror-finish polished aluminum exterior. But those never make it to the street, I'm guessing mirror or highly reflective finishes are against some safety rule...
[B]I have thought for a while that cars would look pretty cool without paint, as long as they didn't rust. Just polish up the aluminum surfaces, make everything else carbon fiber, and it should be good to go ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
Every once in a while, a concept car comes out with a mirror finish. For instance the Audi Avus was a mirror-finish polished aluminum exterior. But those never make it to the street, I'm guessing mirror or highly reflective finishes are against some safety rule...
| Oldnslow | 07-30-2003 03:29 PM |
Robmarch--The DeLorean would be just the ticket for you.........
| Jewduh | 07-30-2003 03:47 PM |
Totally Non-Technical Points
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I'd like to know what peeps think about these concepts:
Assuming you don't plan on using the STI on the track only.
1) Ladies don't really go for the "look at me" wing, well at least the ones I talk to. They go for the more subtle baddass queues (hoodscoop is apparently ok??).
2) The wing attracts Smokey...
3) Wing blocks your view/ability to detect that you are being singled out for some compulsory donations to your local municipality.
I just hope some kind aftermarket company comes out with a more tastefull yet equally as functional wing.
Ohh, and too that last point. How functional is the regular WRX wing?
Assuming you don't plan on using the STI on the track only.
1) Ladies don't really go for the "look at me" wing, well at least the ones I talk to. They go for the more subtle baddass queues (hoodscoop is apparently ok??).
2) The wing attracts Smokey...
3) Wing blocks your view/ability to detect that you are being singled out for some compulsory donations to your local municipality.
I just hope some kind aftermarket company comes out with a more tastefull yet equally as functional wing.
Ohh, and too that last point. How functional is the regular WRX wing?
| KoneKiller | 07-30-2003 04:25 PM |
Re: Totally Non-Technical Points
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Standing by with firehose to soak the ashes of the poor Jewduh after he gets totally flamed!
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jewduh [/i]
[B]
Ohh, and too that last point. How functional is the regular WRX wing? [/B][/QUOTE]
There are plenty of technical debates on that subject on this forum, but I won't bore you with them.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jewduh [/i]
[B]
Ohh, and too that last point. How functional is the regular WRX wing? [/B][/QUOTE]
There are plenty of technical debates on that subject on this forum, but I won't bore you with them.
| 300blueballs | 07-30-2003 04:34 PM |
Re: Totally Non-Technical Points
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jewduh [/i]
[B]I'd like to know what peeps think about these concepts:
Assuming you don't plan on using the STI on the track only.
1) Ladies don't really go for the "look at me" wing, well at least the ones I talk to. They go for the more subtle baddass queues (hoodscoop is apparently ok??).[/B][/QUOTE]
FLAME ON!:devil:
To answer your first ridiculous statement, If you are the type of person who likes to drive a car based on what the "girls'" like, do me a favor and buy a Volkswagen Beetle.
It is YOUR choice and should compromise nothing when making a purchase like this. Everyone will have their own opinion. I have an STI and do not give a rats behind if noone else likes it.
If this question reflects your lifestyle I suggest some self-esteem.
You can hose me now:banana:
[B]I'd like to know what peeps think about these concepts:
Assuming you don't plan on using the STI on the track only.
1) Ladies don't really go for the "look at me" wing, well at least the ones I talk to. They go for the more subtle baddass queues (hoodscoop is apparently ok??).[/B][/QUOTE]
FLAME ON!:devil:
To answer your first ridiculous statement, If you are the type of person who likes to drive a car based on what the "girls'" like, do me a favor and buy a Volkswagen Beetle.
It is YOUR choice and should compromise nothing when making a purchase like this. Everyone will have their own opinion. I have an STI and do not give a rats behind if noone else likes it.
If this question reflects your lifestyle I suggest some self-esteem.
You can hose me now:banana:
| JC | 07-30-2003 11:40 PM |
Re: Totally Non-Technical Points
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jewduh [/i]
[B]I'd like to know what peeps think about these concepts:
Assuming you don't plan on using the STI on the track only.
1) Ladies don't really go for the "look at me" wing, well at least the ones I talk to. They go for the more subtle baddass queues (hoodscoop is apparently ok??).
2) The wing attracts Smokey...
3) Wing blocks your view/ability to detect that you are being singled out for some compulsory donations to your local municipality.
I just hope some kind aftermarket company comes out with a more tastefull yet equally as functional wing.
Ohh, and too that last point. How functional is the regular WRX wing? [/B][/QUOTE]
1)I dunno what kind of dumb hos you know, but most girls I know dig Benzs, VWs, and the such. Girls care more about comfort than performance. If you want girls, so buy a German car.
2) You honestly think an STi will "blend in" if you take off the wing?
3) I think you'll get used to it.
JC
[B]I'd like to know what peeps think about these concepts:
Assuming you don't plan on using the STI on the track only.
1) Ladies don't really go for the "look at me" wing, well at least the ones I talk to. They go for the more subtle baddass queues (hoodscoop is apparently ok??).
2) The wing attracts Smokey...
3) Wing blocks your view/ability to detect that you are being singled out for some compulsory donations to your local municipality.
I just hope some kind aftermarket company comes out with a more tastefull yet equally as functional wing.
Ohh, and too that last point. How functional is the regular WRX wing? [/B][/QUOTE]
1)I dunno what kind of dumb hos you know, but most girls I know dig Benzs, VWs, and the such. Girls care more about comfort than performance. If you want girls, so buy a German car.
2) You honestly think an STi will "blend in" if you take off the wing?
3) I think you'll get used to it.
JC
| metoo | 07-31-2003 01:36 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shirokuma [/i]
[B]
A. Correct. However, at this point, the brakes, wheels, rubber, inverted struts, DCCD, lightweight glass, ARB's, and a host of other parts are little more than decoration also. A WRX turbo with some select investment in power-up goodies is a wiser investment.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
[url]www.apexjapan.com[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
You can never have good enough brakes in my opinion.. Light wheel = better acceleration, rubber and DCCD = better emergency manuevers and more confident lane changes. light glass= better gas mileage and more acceleration. All these items are very valuable under 60 mph. The wing just blocks your rear view.
The WRX was too weak and when you spent the money to make it mor powerful, you lost even moree of the low end torque it didn't have much off to begin with. Sti well worth the extra 6 grand for daily enthusiastic driving.
[B]
A. Correct. However, at this point, the brakes, wheels, rubber, inverted struts, DCCD, lightweight glass, ARB's, and a host of other parts are little more than decoration also. A WRX turbo with some select investment in power-up goodies is a wiser investment.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
[url]www.apexjapan.com[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
You can never have good enough brakes in my opinion.. Light wheel = better acceleration, rubber and DCCD = better emergency manuevers and more confident lane changes. light glass= better gas mileage and more acceleration. All these items are very valuable under 60 mph. The wing just blocks your rear view.
The WRX was too weak and when you spent the money to make it mor powerful, you lost even moree of the low end torque it didn't have much off to begin with. Sti well worth the extra 6 grand for daily enthusiastic driving.
| metoo | 07-31-2003 01:44 AM |
Re: Re: Totally Non-Technical Points
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JC [/i]
[B]
2) You honestly think an STi will "blend in" if you take off the wing?
JC [/B][/QUOTE]
With the scoop and wing gone? Yes.
Soon, ...so very very soon.:devil:
[B]
2) You honestly think an STi will "blend in" if you take off the wing?
JC [/B][/QUOTE]
With the scoop and wing gone? Yes.
Soon, ...so very very soon.:devil:
| XT6Wagon | 07-31-2003 02:32 AM |
Please be aware that the rear wing CAN REDUCE DRAG.
just because *YOU* think that putting a big old chunk of plastic out in the air automaticly creates drag does not make it so. I mean it used to be common sense that the world was flat, and heavier than air flight is impossible.
I am quite sure than the lower section of the wing reduces drag, as its a very common shape for moderate speed, drag reducing wing profiles. IE like the little trunk spoiler on the 92-95 SHO's and 95 Taurus SE's. Not a ultra massive reduction in drag, but at 60 they definitly are working wonders at adding downforce.
The top section may or may not be helping the drag picture. You would need ALOT of windtunnel time to find out if it is or not. As in not only looking at the airflow across the rear window and wing when the velocity of the air is traveling purely N-S across the car, but also when there is a lateral component to the velocity (IE side wind). The top of the wing and its supports may do wonders for keeping the flow laminar across the rear window, and keeping the flow clean off the side windows.
just because *YOU* think that putting a big old chunk of plastic out in the air automaticly creates drag does not make it so. I mean it used to be common sense that the world was flat, and heavier than air flight is impossible.
I am quite sure than the lower section of the wing reduces drag, as its a very common shape for moderate speed, drag reducing wing profiles. IE like the little trunk spoiler on the 92-95 SHO's and 95 Taurus SE's. Not a ultra massive reduction in drag, but at 60 they definitly are working wonders at adding downforce.
The top section may or may not be helping the drag picture. You would need ALOT of windtunnel time to find out if it is or not. As in not only looking at the airflow across the rear window and wing when the velocity of the air is traveling purely N-S across the car, but also when there is a lateral component to the velocity (IE side wind). The top of the wing and its supports may do wonders for keeping the flow laminar across the rear window, and keeping the flow clean off the side windows.
| liigod | 07-31-2003 02:39 AM |
pink is my favorite color, i love it on the sti
eat that boys :banana:
also i find it amusing that all the people on the forum here think that girls care about what car someone drives. Because, well they really dont. If they do, then they arent worth careing about :lol:
eat that boys :banana:
also i find it amusing that all the people on the forum here think that girls care about what car someone drives. Because, well they really dont. If they do, then they arent worth careing about :lol:
| Yukonart | 07-31-2003 05:41 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by liigod [/i]
[B]also i find it amusing that all the people on the forum here think that girls care about what car someone drives. Because, well they really dont. If they do, then they arent worth careing about :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
If my girlfriend were dating me for my car. . . she would have left me months ago! :lol:
[B]also i find it amusing that all the people on the forum here think that girls care about what car someone drives. Because, well they really dont. If they do, then they arent worth careing about :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
If my girlfriend were dating me for my car. . . she would have left me months ago! :lol:
| robmarch | 07-31-2003 07:41 AM |
Re: Re: Totally Non-Technical Points
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JC [/i]
[B]2) You honestly think an STi will "blend in" if you take off the wing?[/B][/QUOTE]
Actually, the WRX with a clean trunk is a pretty good sleeper, as far as not getting attention from the law enforcement or streetracing element.
with brakedust "gunmetal" wheels and no wing, the scoop is really the only thing that's noticably different from most other cars of similar size, in the right colors. And, lots of times, the scoop isn't that noticable, since it blends into the hood paintwork from many angles at a quick glance.
I vote "Yes", the STi will blend in without the wing. There have been some pics posted, I'll see if I can dig them up.
[B]2) You honestly think an STi will "blend in" if you take off the wing?[/B][/QUOTE]
Actually, the WRX with a clean trunk is a pretty good sleeper, as far as not getting attention from the law enforcement or streetracing element.
with brakedust "gunmetal" wheels and no wing, the scoop is really the only thing that's noticably different from most other cars of similar size, in the right colors. And, lots of times, the scoop isn't that noticable, since it blends into the hood paintwork from many angles at a quick glance.
I vote "Yes", the STi will blend in without the wing. There have been some pics posted, I'll see if I can dig them up.
| HFTuRbo | 07-31-2003 08:02 AM |
[QUOTE]the WRX with a clean trunk is a pretty good sleeper, as far as not getting attention from the law enforcement or streetracing element. [/QUOTE]
Just plain no. My silver WRX attracted more law and blotto traffic light racers.
I like the wing. Da wing has been berry-berry good to me.
I've had one local law officer on my tail within town with the speed limit @25 mph. I went 20 mph and frustrated him into submission to where he pulled over and waited for someone else to fly by or whatever.
Women either like the car or they don't. It really doesn't matter either way what their tastes are in cars. Afterall it's not their car, but I've had more look than not, and only compliments have been made about it so far! (...and I'm an old guy!!):alien:
Just plain no. My silver WRX attracted more law and blotto traffic light racers.
I like the wing. Da wing has been berry-berry good to me.
I've had one local law officer on my tail within town with the speed limit @25 mph. I went 20 mph and frustrated him into submission to where he pulled over and waited for someone else to fly by or whatever.
Women either like the car or they don't. It really doesn't matter either way what their tastes are in cars. Afterall it's not their car, but I've had more look than not, and only compliments have been made about it so far! (...and I'm an old guy!!):alien:
| Jewduh | 07-31-2003 12:52 PM |
Re: Re: Totally Non-Technical Points
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I'll bite ;)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 300blueballs [/i]
[B]
To answer your first ridiculous statement, If you are the type of person who likes to drive a car based on what the "girls'" like, do me a favor and buy a Volkswagen Beetle.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Okay, let me rephrase the basic concern. How do you reconcile the fact that the wing is NOT aesthetically appealing by most peoples (guys or girls) standards? A simple "I like it and I don't give a crap what other people think" will suffice. I guess the the first assertion was kind of a red herring, but i don't think it's ridiculous. I don't want my major mode of trasportation to be ugly, I guess I'm crazy.
[QUOTE][B]
If this question reflects your lifestyle I suggest some self-esteem.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks Freud :rolleyes:
Oh, and BTW my major concerns are more tied up in points 2 and 3. And no I don't drive like an ass, I just don't want any undue attention.
Some people really get all riled :furious: up over simple/honest concerns. I love the car and these things are not going to change that, but that won't stop me from trying to make it look better without hampering the performance dramatically.
Peace.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 300blueballs [/i]
[B]
To answer your first ridiculous statement, If you are the type of person who likes to drive a car based on what the "girls'" like, do me a favor and buy a Volkswagen Beetle.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Okay, let me rephrase the basic concern. How do you reconcile the fact that the wing is NOT aesthetically appealing by most peoples (guys or girls) standards? A simple "I like it and I don't give a crap what other people think" will suffice. I guess the the first assertion was kind of a red herring, but i don't think it's ridiculous. I don't want my major mode of trasportation to be ugly, I guess I'm crazy.
[QUOTE][B]
If this question reflects your lifestyle I suggest some self-esteem.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks Freud :rolleyes:
Oh, and BTW my major concerns are more tied up in points 2 and 3. And no I don't drive like an ass, I just don't want any undue attention.
Some people really get all riled :furious: up over simple/honest concerns. I love the car and these things are not going to change that, but that won't stop me from trying to make it look better without hampering the performance dramatically.
Peace.
| 300blueballs | 07-31-2003 10:06 PM |
Re: Re: Re: Totally Non-Technical Points
�
�
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jewduh [/i]
[B]I'll bite ;)
Okay, let me rephrase the basic concern. How do you reconcile the fact that the wing is NOT aesthetically appealing by most peoples (guys or girls) standards? A simple "I like it and I don't give a crap what other people think" will suffice. I guess the the first assertion was kind of a red herring, but i don't think it's ridiculous. I don't want my major mode of trasportation to be ugly, I guess I'm crazy.[/B][/QUOTE]
I'll start off by saying that I was just busting your blueballs:disco: No hard freelings
You're right, what I did mean is you shouldn't give a crap what other people think. Being honest with yourself is always the best policy.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jewduh [/i]
[B]Thanks Freud :rolleyes:[/B][/QUOTE]
Well actually my decision was based more on a cognitive perspective than Freud's sexual psychoanalytic theory. You should've said something like "Thanks Piaget and Vygotsky"
:D
[B]I'll bite ;)
Okay, let me rephrase the basic concern. How do you reconcile the fact that the wing is NOT aesthetically appealing by most peoples (guys or girls) standards? A simple "I like it and I don't give a crap what other people think" will suffice. I guess the the first assertion was kind of a red herring, but i don't think it's ridiculous. I don't want my major mode of trasportation to be ugly, I guess I'm crazy.[/B][/QUOTE]
I'll start off by saying that I was just busting your blueballs:disco: No hard freelings
You're right, what I did mean is you shouldn't give a crap what other people think. Being honest with yourself is always the best policy.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jewduh [/i]
[B]Thanks Freud :rolleyes:[/B][/QUOTE]
Well actually my decision was based more on a cognitive perspective than Freud's sexual psychoanalytic theory. You should've said something like "Thanks Piaget and Vygotsky"
:D
| WReXinEfX | 08-01-2003 12:03 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shirokuma [/i]
[B]Q. So what's up with with STi using pink? Are they, well, limp-wristed or something?
A. Over many years here, I've thought about this deeply. I believe I've come up with an answer. The Japanese are color blind.
Ok, no, it's not that, but their sense of color is quite different than people overseas. While you rarely see the worst examples (like their Sydney Olympic outfits), they certainly have some whoppers. They have started to notice, however, for certain STi parts in Japan are now painted blue, or come as polished aluminum.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
[url]www.apexjapan.com[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
I think in the Western world, Gold is associated with the "bling" factor. Showing off your riches but in Japan and Asia, Gold is used extensively on anything to preserve good fortunes.
Japanese or Chinese would decorate their trees or plants with gold ribbons or put gold lettering on decorations to show good "feng shui."
As for the STI "Pink" color.. Subaru just wanted to be "different" than the others. Pink can stand for "Cherry Blossom" flowers in Japan which is very symbolic of Japanese since FHI is a Japanese company.
Japanese use very expressive colors for their products and pink is not uncommon on billboards or anything in Japan such as Hello Kitty..
Here in the USA, you won't find pink products, we're actually very conservative about using colors .. cars for example...
[B]Q. So what's up with with STi using pink? Are they, well, limp-wristed or something?
A. Over many years here, I've thought about this deeply. I believe I've come up with an answer. The Japanese are color blind.
Ok, no, it's not that, but their sense of color is quite different than people overseas. While you rarely see the worst examples (like their Sydney Olympic outfits), they certainly have some whoppers. They have started to notice, however, for certain STi parts in Japan are now painted blue, or come as polished aluminum.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
[url]www.apexjapan.com[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
I think in the Western world, Gold is associated with the "bling" factor. Showing off your riches but in Japan and Asia, Gold is used extensively on anything to preserve good fortunes.
Japanese or Chinese would decorate their trees or plants with gold ribbons or put gold lettering on decorations to show good "feng shui."
As for the STI "Pink" color.. Subaru just wanted to be "different" than the others. Pink can stand for "Cherry Blossom" flowers in Japan which is very symbolic of Japanese since FHI is a Japanese company.
Japanese use very expressive colors for their products and pink is not uncommon on billboards or anything in Japan such as Hello Kitty..
Here in the USA, you won't find pink products, we're actually very conservative about using colors .. cars for example...
| shirokuma | 08-30-2003 12:56 AM |
Bump, you all know why....
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
| Valvetrain Engineer | 09-01-2003 12:10 AM |
FWIW...Subaru official literature to the dealers states that the spoiler provided 'up to 30 kg. of downforce at high speeds'. That's fine for me; I strongly considered ditching it, but did a 180 and now it stays (for the summer). For the winter (for snow removal reasons) I will slap on the WRX spoiler and plug the holes...
| djt81185 | 09-02-2003 07:07 PM |
how does the hoodscoop and top mount intercooler affect drag and aero as compared to no hood scoop and a front mount intercooler???
Dan
Dan
| finger123 | 09-02-2003 08:22 PM |
I totally agree. taking off the wing basically defeats the whole purpose of the STI in my eyes. The STI, the huge hood scoop is what designates the eye appearance difference from the regular WRX's. Those two things and the performance of the engine is what the STI is all about. I have had many good comments, and even comments from folks who dont know nothing about imports or the STI in general. and they ask, why such a big wing? Im now to the point where im tired of explaining why.
| Red Rocket | 09-16-2003 10:30 PM |
move it
| Malcolm WRX | 09-16-2003 11:57 PM |
The gigantesque monstrosity of a wing that defines our STi is actually starting to grow on me. Not literally, thank God, but I am liking it more and more all the time. Both ordinary people and supermodels really seem to like the STi, more so that the other cars I drive. This surprises me, because in some ways I think the STi is not even close to the best looking. It does seem that the STi, as an overall package, is styled very well. It's balanced. That's it. Balanced. From the walloping wing to the humongous hood scoop to the behemothic brakes, it all blends together perfectly with the petite pink psychotic-rage-inducing STi logos. And to think I was going to debadge it. To do so would have been ... excessive.
I can't figure out whether the police like it or not. They stare a lot. Staring is rude.
I can't figure out whether the police like it or not. They stare a lot. Staring is rude.
| quentinberg007 | 09-18-2003 12:29 AM |
I still don't get the idea that people think the car they drive gets them police attention. I see tons of old vans pulled over, but they let my RS (with gold wheels, scoop, and wing!) go right by. Do you know why? I don't speed, run stoplights, or break other traffic laws.
Now, a loud exhaust, neon lights, and other various things that would lead an officer to believe that your car is unfit for the road may get you pulled over and ticketed. If your STi is blaring down the road loud as hell cuz you don't have any cats but you do have a 3" full exhaust in your car, I would bet you would get pulled over in some states. That isn't because of the wing or your gold wheels, but because you have "technically" broken the law (see: VA). It is just like people blaming their RE-92s for their wrecks. :rolleyes:
If you are legal, they won't ticket you.
~~Quentin
Now, a loud exhaust, neon lights, and other various things that would lead an officer to believe that your car is unfit for the road may get you pulled over and ticketed. If your STi is blaring down the road loud as hell cuz you don't have any cats but you do have a 3" full exhaust in your car, I would bet you would get pulled over in some states. That isn't because of the wing or your gold wheels, but because you have "technically" broken the law (see: VA). It is just like people blaming their RE-92s for their wrecks. :rolleyes:
If you are legal, they won't ticket you.
~~Quentin
| robmarch | 09-18-2003 08:08 AM |
there's a post on one of these threads by a police officer who admits that wings draw his attention (like everyones). There are a lot of situations where an officer makes a judgement as to which car in the group was exceeding the speed limit and was caught on the radar gun, and cars that seek attention get attention.
if you're saying you never exceed the speed limit, even when you're on a highway and traffic is parting around you doing 10-15 over (as they usually do), congratulations. Most people don't fall into that category. I'm willing to bet a large portion of STi owners have exceeded the speed limit in their car at some point.
The point is, you can drive the same way in a 96 Altima as you do in your 04 STi and get a lot more attention from officers in the car that has a higher risk profile. The wing has a lot to do with that.
if you're saying you never exceed the speed limit, even when you're on a highway and traffic is parting around you doing 10-15 over (as they usually do), congratulations. Most people don't fall into that category. I'm willing to bet a large portion of STi owners have exceeded the speed limit in their car at some point.
The point is, you can drive the same way in a 96 Altima as you do in your 04 STi and get a lot more attention from officers in the car that has a higher risk profile. The wing has a lot to do with that.
| 300blueballs | 09-18-2003 10:32 AM |
Officers won't even bother to go after a car with a wing that big. They'll figure with a wingspan like that, this car will lift right off the ground. Can't catch me!:banana:
| DISCOPOPE | 09-18-2003 04:14 PM |
..... im not going to have anywhere to tie the tow rope if i take my wing off....
[url]http://www.skiffcraft.com/disco/images/slam/newrlpix/koff-waterski.mpg[/url]
[url]http://www.skiffcraft.com/disco/images/slam/newrlpix/koff-waterski.mpg[/url]
| bugged | 10-16-2003 08:35 PM |
sti wing faq
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Has anyone taken one of these sti wings apart, benefits aside,I was wodering if you could just take off the top section and fabricate some caps or some tipe of fins, for a quick change option?
| T-WRX | 05-29-2004 08:05 PM |
Bump for the '05 owners. :)
| powerslide23 | 05-29-2004 09:52 PM |
I'm keeping the wing. It is one of the items that set the STi apart from other posers.
Would you remove the wing from a Porsche GT2 or GT3 even though it is your daily driver?
I don't think so.;)
Would you remove the wing from a Porsche GT2 or GT3 even though it is your daily driver?
I don't think so.;)
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