| zoomfactor | 05-11-2004 03:14 PM |
"Required" mods for a competitive ESP WRX?
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Now that the WRX has been actively campaigned for a while and with the debate still raging about the STi's future in ESP, what would you consider to be requirements for a regionally competitive ESP car.
Due to the unfavorable rule-set the WRX will likely be significantly outclassed in the horsepower department, but...For the sake of argument assume we are starting with a decent STX car, less motor mounts and brake upgrades.
Flat-bed trailer:devil:
Front diff
Larger TMIC of FMIC (assuming plumbing doesn't impact other necessary components)
Walbro fuel pump + Injectors + tune (Ecutek?) - how to control boost spikes?
Since the brakes need to stay, would wide 15's or 16's be better?
I got kind of irrationally irritated reading the STi/ESP threads on the SCCA boards and thought I'd undertake a research project:banana:
Due to the unfavorable rule-set the WRX will likely be significantly outclassed in the horsepower department, but...For the sake of argument assume we are starting with a decent STX car, less motor mounts and brake upgrades.
Flat-bed trailer:devil:
Front diff
Larger TMIC of FMIC (assuming plumbing doesn't impact other necessary components)
Walbro fuel pump + Injectors + tune (Ecutek?) - how to control boost spikes?
Since the brakes need to stay, would wide 15's or 16's be better?
I got kind of irrationally irritated reading the STi/ESP threads on the SCCA boards and thought I'd undertake a research project:banana:
| zoomfactor | 05-11-2004 03:16 PM |
What about the application of Anti-lag? Since it is primarily a function of timing and fuel delivery.
<I'm aware of some of the drawbacks>
<I'm aware of some of the drawbacks>
| zzyzx | 05-11-2004 03:33 PM |
If you want to compete in ESP and not worry about a re-class, start with A Forester XT. :alien:
- Steve
- Steve
| jmott | 05-11-2004 03:40 PM |
Huge wheels and race tires
245 would be ok in some regions, but Id aim to find a way to make 275s work.
some coilovers with stiff springs, camber plates and lots of camber all around.
turboback exauhst
id skip the LSD, not necessary with all this tire. No point in spending every last cent on stuff like this, you aren't trying to win nationals anyway.
with huge tires, stiff suspension and good driving you should be able to do ok regionally
245 would be ok in some regions, but Id aim to find a way to make 275s work.
some coilovers with stiff springs, camber plates and lots of camber all around.
turboback exauhst
id skip the LSD, not necessary with all this tire. No point in spending every last cent on stuff like this, you aren't trying to win nationals anyway.
with huge tires, stiff suspension and good driving you should be able to do ok regionally
| 10th Warrior | 05-11-2004 03:40 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by zzyzx [/i]
[B]If you want to compete in ESP and not worry about a re-class, start with A Forester XT. :alien:
- Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
the WRX is in no danger of being reclassed either.
i'd personally do more then the front diff. i'd do them all. after that, attack the fenders so you can run 275s or whatever.
anti-lag isn't legal. modifying boost isn't legal.
[B]If you want to compete in ESP and not worry about a re-class, start with A Forester XT. :alien:
- Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
the WRX is in no danger of being reclassed either.
i'd personally do more then the front diff. i'd do them all. after that, attack the fenders so you can run 275s or whatever.
anti-lag isn't legal. modifying boost isn't legal.
| zoomfactor | 05-11-2004 03:48 PM |
[QUOTE]anti-lag isn't legal.[/QUOTE]
Why not...If you can modify timing/fuel you can approximate elements of antilag. I didn't see the explicit prohibition of its "effect".
Why not...If you can modify timing/fuel you can approximate elements of antilag. I didn't see the explicit prohibition of its "effect".
| KC | 05-11-2004 03:58 PM |
Buy my wagon then add:
Front Diff
Fender Flares with as wide a tire you can run
Upgraded IC (Don't think you'd be able to run a FM)
IC hoses
No cats
Fuel pump/Injectors
Remove AC
Small tires 15's?
Brakes are adequate
Seats
Clutch
Front Diff
Fender Flares with as wide a tire you can run
Upgraded IC (Don't think you'd be able to run a FM)
IC hoses
No cats
Fuel pump/Injectors
Remove AC
Small tires 15's?
Brakes are adequate
Seats
Clutch
| KC | 05-11-2004 04:02 PM |
Ohg yeah, can you do lateral links?
| afpdl | 05-11-2004 04:03 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC[/i]
[B] Ohg yeah, can you do lateral links? [/B][/QUOTE]
As long as the bushings are the same type I believe.
[B] Ohg yeah, can you do lateral links? [/B][/QUOTE]
As long as the bushings are the same type I believe.
| zzyzx | 05-11-2004 04:48 PM |
Ya know I still need to get definitive clarification on the lateral links. The MRT untis would be the way to got - STi lateral links have different bearings.
Hmm, front diff, coilovers, stiff springs, 275s, no cats, camber plates... that sounds all too familiar. :lol:
- Steve
Hmm, front diff, coilovers, stiff springs, 275s, no cats, camber plates... that sounds all too familiar. :lol:
- Steve
| dadswrx | 05-11-2004 07:14 PM |
Not just wider, but shorter wheels and tires would do wonders with the WRX gearing.
Mike
02 WRX Wagon
Mike
02 WRX Wagon
| subrew2 | 05-11-2004 07:53 PM |
You won't be able to find any decently wide 15-inch rubber, they stop at either 225 or 245/50 (older Celicas ran these.) I would shoot for the 265/45-16s on like a 16x9.
This would make a good DSP choice for the 2.5RS too.
Chris H.
This would make a good DSP choice for the 2.5RS too.
Chris H.
| trhoppe | 05-11-2004 08:29 PM |
Instead of buying a POS wagon, buy my STX WRX and add the 265/45/16s that chris h. is talking about and you will not only smear regional competition, but win on a national level as well :devil:
You could add an IC and front diff, but why would you need to when you can win as is :lol:
-Tom
You could add an IC and front diff, but why would you need to when you can win as is :lol:
-Tom
| KC | 05-11-2004 09:32 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] Instead of buying a POS wagon, buy my STX WRX and add the 265/45/16s that chris h. is talking about and you will not only smear regional competition, but win on a national level as well :devil:
You could add an IC and front diff, but why would you need to when you can win as is :lol:
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
My car has a proven track record. :devil:
[B] Instead of buying a POS wagon, buy my STX WRX and add the 265/45/16s that chris h. is talking about and you will not only smear regional competition, but win on a national level as well :devil:
You could add an IC and front diff, but why would you need to when you can win as is :lol:
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
My car has a proven track record. :devil:
| DrBiggly | 05-11-2004 09:40 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC[/i]
[B] My car has a proven track record. :devil: [/B][/QUOTE]
Oh snap. :lol:
[B] My car has a proven track record. :devil: [/B][/QUOTE]
Oh snap. :lol:
| ChrisW | 05-11-2004 11:08 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC[/i]
[B] Ohg yeah, can you do lateral links? [/B][/QUOTE]
can't do lateral links in ESP as far as I know.
[B] Ohg yeah, can you do lateral links? [/B][/QUOTE]
can't do lateral links in ESP as far as I know.
| Storm | 05-11-2004 11:59 PM |
I agree with most of this. A couple points I don't agree with is about the LSD. You NEED a front LSD of some sort. If I can light up 245 Hoosiers on a 98RS w/open diffs....A WRX is gonna do the same. The front LSD transformed the car and actually made better use of the rubber. Spending money on the LSD(s) is arguably more important than bigger wheels/tires.
A stiff suspension is paramount. SP doesn't follow tradional setup trends. It is completely different. I would argue that a good stiff WRX with a front Quaife and 245s would be DIVISIONALLY competitive with a "decent" driver.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jmott[/i]
[B] Huge wheels and race tires
245 would be ok in some regions, but Id aim to find a way to make 275s work.
some coilovers with stiff springs, camber plates and lots of camber all around.
turboback exauhst
id skip the LSD, not necessary with all this tire. No point in spending every last cent on stuff like this, you aren't trying to win nationals anyway.
with huge tires, stiff suspension and good driving you should be able to do ok regionally [/B][/QUOTE]
If it were me I'd do this:
F/R Quaife diffs and STi 20Kg center
SA or DA Konis valved for 9-1klb springs.
850lb springs to start(all around).
big sways at each end.
lightest 16x9(or10) wheels with 245-275 tires
(optionally custom15x10's w 265-50-15 old skool tires).
Careful attention to track width and appropriate fender clearancing to make it work.
the best header I could afford and a good lightweight open exhaust.
a fuel/timing controller w/a higher rev limit.
plenty of toluene.
light seats, no power windows, stereo, A/C, cruise or anything else that is within the rules to reduce weight.
finally, I'd try to gasketmatch each port for the intake and exhaust.
I'm confident that I could do reasonably well with something like this....and I'm no schumacher.
Jay Storm
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".....
A stiff suspension is paramount. SP doesn't follow tradional setup trends. It is completely different. I would argue that a good stiff WRX with a front Quaife and 245s would be DIVISIONALLY competitive with a "decent" driver.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jmott[/i]
[B] Huge wheels and race tires
245 would be ok in some regions, but Id aim to find a way to make 275s work.
some coilovers with stiff springs, camber plates and lots of camber all around.
turboback exauhst
id skip the LSD, not necessary with all this tire. No point in spending every last cent on stuff like this, you aren't trying to win nationals anyway.
with huge tires, stiff suspension and good driving you should be able to do ok regionally [/B][/QUOTE]
If it were me I'd do this:
F/R Quaife diffs and STi 20Kg center
SA or DA Konis valved for 9-1klb springs.
850lb springs to start(all around).
big sways at each end.
lightest 16x9(or10) wheels with 245-275 tires
(optionally custom15x10's w 265-50-15 old skool tires).
Careful attention to track width and appropriate fender clearancing to make it work.
the best header I could afford and a good lightweight open exhaust.
a fuel/timing controller w/a higher rev limit.
plenty of toluene.
light seats, no power windows, stereo, A/C, cruise or anything else that is within the rules to reduce weight.
finally, I'd try to gasketmatch each port for the intake and exhaust.
I'm confident that I could do reasonably well with something like this....and I'm no schumacher.
Jay Storm
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".....
| zzyzx | 05-12-2004 02:51 AM |
Alright Jay, the race is on. Let's see who makes it to an autox with the BIG meats on the car first! ;)
- Steve
- Steve
| Jaz_rs | 05-12-2004 09:02 AM |
Jay,
what did you do to fit 245s on a RS? What wheel were you running? On 16 or 17 inch? Suspension, camber? Any issues or limitation?
Thanks.
what did you do to fit 245s on a RS? What wheel were you running? On 16 or 17 inch? Suspension, camber? Any issues or limitation?
Thanks.
| Warp3 | 05-12-2004 09:10 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by zoomfactor[/i]
For the sake of argument assume we are starting with a decent STX car, [b]less motor mounts[/b] and brake upgrades.[/QUOTE]
FYI: Street Prepared allows upgraded motor mounts as of January 2004 (as long as they bolt to the same locations and don't have more metal than the stock ones).
Shane -- SM 729
For the sake of argument assume we are starting with a decent STX car, [b]less motor mounts[/b] and brake upgrades.[/QUOTE]
FYI: Street Prepared allows upgraded motor mounts as of January 2004 (as long as they bolt to the same locations and don't have more metal than the stock ones).
Shane -- SM 729
| zoomfactor | 05-12-2004 09:15 AM |
Missed that...
| trhoppe | 05-12-2004 10:05 AM |
zoomfactor - will you be racing locally/regionally or nationally?
I don't think there are any fast ESP guys in the SE except Tommy Pulliam from Atlanta. You should be able to take out everyone with a STX WRX with race rubber. I wouldn't mod it past that because you can go back to STX whenever you want.
-Tom
I don't think there are any fast ESP guys in the SE except Tommy Pulliam from Atlanta. You should be able to take out everyone with a STX WRX with race rubber. I wouldn't mod it past that because you can go back to STX whenever you want.
-Tom
| Storm | 05-12-2004 01:13 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] zoomfactor - will you be racing locally/regionally or nationally?
I don't think there are any fast ESP guys in the SE except Tommy Pulliam from Atlanta. You should be able to take out everyone with a STX WRX with race rubber. I wouldn't mod it past that because you can go back to STX whenever you want.
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]The caveat there is that Strano has the basic recipe to transform any year F-body into a very competitive ESP machine. Add a driver that is not known, but did a good buildup....and you have a sleeper awating. There is no such recipe for the Imprezas yet.
I didn't list engine/trans mounts because, to me they are like race rubber. A prerequisite of sorts.
[QUOTE]Alright Jay, the race is on. Let's see who makes it to an autox with the BIG meats on the car first!
- Steve[/QUOTE] Been there with 245s on 16x9 wheels, Steve. The difference is....staggering! :cool: :cool:
[QUOTE]Jay,
what did you do to fit 245s on a RS? What wheel were you running? On 16 or 17 inch? Suspension, camber? Any issues or limitation?
Thanks.[/QUOTE]We bolted them on...... We have low offset 16x9 wheels and used 16x7 Hart cp-035s last season with 245s. Camber and fenders have been massaged. We rub with the new wheels, but didn't with the Harts.
[url]http://server.tekro.com/~autox/gallery/album11/DSC00802[/url]
Jay Storm
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".......
[B] zoomfactor - will you be racing locally/regionally or nationally?
I don't think there are any fast ESP guys in the SE except Tommy Pulliam from Atlanta. You should be able to take out everyone with a STX WRX with race rubber. I wouldn't mod it past that because you can go back to STX whenever you want.
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]The caveat there is that Strano has the basic recipe to transform any year F-body into a very competitive ESP machine. Add a driver that is not known, but did a good buildup....and you have a sleeper awating. There is no such recipe for the Imprezas yet.
I didn't list engine/trans mounts because, to me they are like race rubber. A prerequisite of sorts.
[QUOTE]Alright Jay, the race is on. Let's see who makes it to an autox with the BIG meats on the car first!
- Steve[/QUOTE] Been there with 245s on 16x9 wheels, Steve. The difference is....staggering! :cool: :cool:
[QUOTE]Jay,
what did you do to fit 245s on a RS? What wheel were you running? On 16 or 17 inch? Suspension, camber? Any issues or limitation?
Thanks.[/QUOTE]We bolted them on...... We have low offset 16x9 wheels and used 16x7 Hart cp-035s last season with 245s. Camber and fenders have been massaged. We rub with the new wheels, but didn't with the Harts.
[url]http://server.tekro.com/~autox/gallery/album11/DSC00802[/url]
Jay Storm
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".......
| KC | 05-12-2004 01:25 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Storm [/i]
[B] We rub with the new wheels, but didn't with the Harts.
[url]http://server.tekro.com/~autox/gallery/album11/DSC00802[/url]
Jay Storm
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"....... [/B][/QUOTE]
With high spring rates and properly valved struts, the rubbing will go away. You'll only get it on full lock.. and how often are you at full lock on an auto-x? :lol: (if you're full lock, then you need to look at your driving)
--kC
[B] We rub with the new wheels, but didn't with the Harts.
[url]http://server.tekro.com/~autox/gallery/album11/DSC00802[/url]
Jay Storm
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"....... [/B][/QUOTE]
With high spring rates and properly valved struts, the rubbing will go away. You'll only get it on full lock.. and how often are you at full lock on an auto-x? :lol: (if you're full lock, then you need to look at your driving)
--kC
| zoomfactor | 05-12-2004 01:34 PM |
I'll probably stick pretty close to home. I'm in it for fun and self improvement.
FWIW - I have been daily driving the car and the whole STX thing appealed to me because I could change the tires at home and run the car as-is. Well two weeks ago someone ran a red-light and hit the car causing minor damage. So I'm thinking that I really don't want to invest a lot of sweat and $$ into something that could get wiped out by an idiot in a second.
The next (il)logical step was to turn the WRX into a track/auto-x only car and ESP seems like a nice compromise. I just wanted to explore the "required" mods and potential $$ to have a reasonably competitive ESP car.
That...and I've never been a big fan of Mustangs :D
FWIW - I have been daily driving the car and the whole STX thing appealed to me because I could change the tires at home and run the car as-is. Well two weeks ago someone ran a red-light and hit the car causing minor damage. So I'm thinking that I really don't want to invest a lot of sweat and $$ into something that could get wiped out by an idiot in a second.
The next (il)logical step was to turn the WRX into a track/auto-x only car and ESP seems like a nice compromise. I just wanted to explore the "required" mods and potential $$ to have a reasonably competitive ESP car.
That...and I've never been a big fan of Mustangs :D
| zoomfactor | 05-12-2004 01:38 PM |
Jay - what ride height are you running? I've only got a fingertip between the inside edge of the 225 Falkan to the spring perch on my RA's with a 13.25" ride height.
| thechickencow | 05-12-2004 01:53 PM |
If you're going to put the time/money into all the stuff to make a competitive ESP car, it makes sense to me to put a little more money in and make it a SM car.
You're talking the difference of the price of a turbo and engine management. Everything else would be the same (provided you upgrade pump/injectors).
Running boost control is worth it, IMO.
You're talking the difference of the price of a turbo and engine management. Everything else would be the same (provided you upgrade pump/injectors).
Running boost control is worth it, IMO.
| jmott | 05-12-2004 02:17 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by thechickencow [/i]
[B]If you're going to put the time/money into all the stuff to make a competitive ESP car, it makes sense to me to put a little more money in and make it a SM car.
You're talking the difference of the price of a turbo and engine management. Everything else would be the same (provided you upgrade pump/injectors).
Running boost control is worth it, IMO. [/B][/QUOTE]
SM would allow quite a bit more. stripping of the rear seats, lightweight hoods, more radical power modifications. You will be taking more risk with your engine and have to start worrying about lag.
plus then you are going up against M3s and you really don't want to do that. =)
[B]If you're going to put the time/money into all the stuff to make a competitive ESP car, it makes sense to me to put a little more money in and make it a SM car.
You're talking the difference of the price of a turbo and engine management. Everything else would be the same (provided you upgrade pump/injectors).
Running boost control is worth it, IMO. [/B][/QUOTE]
SM would allow quite a bit more. stripping of the rear seats, lightweight hoods, more radical power modifications. You will be taking more risk with your engine and have to start worrying about lag.
plus then you are going up against M3s and you really don't want to do that. =)
| zzyzx | 05-12-2004 02:26 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Storm [/i]
[B] Been there with 245s on 16x9 wheels, Steve. The difference is....staggering! :cool: :cool:
[/B][/QUOTE]
Looks good. Also looks like there is no way the rears can tuck under the fender lips. Do they, or do you just run in high enough so that don't compress that far?
Oh and by [B]BIG[/B] meats, I wasn't talking no piddly little 245s... Think Texas-sized. :) Remember, the top dogs in our class are wearing 285s on cars that don't weigh significantly more than ours.
Boy, I can't wait! :devil:
- Steve
[B] Been there with 245s on 16x9 wheels, Steve. The difference is....staggering! :cool: :cool:
[/B][/QUOTE]
Looks good. Also looks like there is no way the rears can tuck under the fender lips. Do they, or do you just run in high enough so that don't compress that far?
Oh and by [B]BIG[/B] meats, I wasn't talking no piddly little 245s... Think Texas-sized. :) Remember, the top dogs in our class are wearing 285s on cars that don't weigh significantly more than ours.
Boy, I can't wait! :devil:
- Steve
| Storm | 05-12-2004 03:00 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by zzyzx [/i]
[B]Looks good. Also looks like there is no way the rears can tuck under the fender lips. Do they, or do you just run in high enough so that don't compress that far?
Oh and by [B]BIG[/B] meats, I wasn't talking no piddly little 245s... Think Texas-sized. :) Remember, the top dogs in our class are wearing 285s on cars that don't weigh significantly more than ours.
Boy, I can't wait! :devil:
- Steve [/B][/QUOTE] Without hijacking the thread, I'll say that these wheels are a bit too shallow to tuck under the fenders of our car. We havent put any more camber in the back yet, so who knows...they could go with a little more work. So yeah, the rates are stiff to keep it up as much as we can. We can go more.....but haven't yet. 275s would fit well on these wheels, but I dunno about shoehorning them under the car....I remember all to well what the big dogs were wearing to the ball last September. We can't affort the bigger meats yet, these were mildly used and serve as a testbed for later things.
[QUOTE]Jay - what ride height are you running? I've only got a fingertip between the inside edge of the 225 Falkan to the spring perch on my RA's with a 13.25" ride height.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure about the height. We swap around between 3 different combos with 3 different overall diameters. I guess you could say it varies.
I can measure from the axle center to the fender arcs to get an idea, but you have a WRX.....
Jay Storm
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"......
[B]Looks good. Also looks like there is no way the rears can tuck under the fender lips. Do they, or do you just run in high enough so that don't compress that far?
Oh and by [B]BIG[/B] meats, I wasn't talking no piddly little 245s... Think Texas-sized. :) Remember, the top dogs in our class are wearing 285s on cars that don't weigh significantly more than ours.
Boy, I can't wait! :devil:
- Steve [/B][/QUOTE] Without hijacking the thread, I'll say that these wheels are a bit too shallow to tuck under the fenders of our car. We havent put any more camber in the back yet, so who knows...they could go with a little more work. So yeah, the rates are stiff to keep it up as much as we can. We can go more.....but haven't yet. 275s would fit well on these wheels, but I dunno about shoehorning them under the car....I remember all to well what the big dogs were wearing to the ball last September. We can't affort the bigger meats yet, these were mildly used and serve as a testbed for later things.
[QUOTE]Jay - what ride height are you running? I've only got a fingertip between the inside edge of the 225 Falkan to the spring perch on my RA's with a 13.25" ride height.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure about the height. We swap around between 3 different combos with 3 different overall diameters. I guess you could say it varies.
I can measure from the axle center to the fender arcs to get an idea, but you have a WRX.....
Jay Storm
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"......
| trhoppe | 05-12-2004 03:10 PM |
Storm - What I am saying is that an STX setup WRX with the "basic recipe" that we have listed on the board multiple times can come close to beating a "Strano setup" ESP car on STREET tires when consider drivers of the same caliber. Once you add race rubber to that STX setup WRX, I think that you can beat all the Strano setup cars w/o other changes.
-Tom
-Tom
| Crosser | 05-13-2004 02:41 PM |
The problem comes in that you start adding the R tires with more grip, and your STX set up can start to be over powered. Not saying it won't work Tom, just saying slapping a more sticky set of tires on sometimes causes more problems. Just a though...
Eric
Eric
| dwx | 05-13-2004 03:30 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Storm [/i]
Been there with 245s on 16x9 wheels, Steve. The difference is....staggering! :cool: :cool:
We bolted them on...... We have low offset 16x9 wheels and used 16x7 Hart cp-035s last season with 245s. Camber and fenders have been massaged. We rub with the new wheels, but didn't with the Harts.
[/QUOTE]
What 16x9 wheels are you using? I'm looking for something in the 40 offset range so I can clear the struts and run 275s on the WRX. I'm running 16x8 gram lights w/245/45/16 Hoosiers now but would like more tire. :devil: The tire I really wanted to run this year was the 265/45/16 V710, but we all know that story. They are 45 offset and I still need 2mm spacers to make them fit in the rear for strut clearance. I'm likely going to take the car to a good body place and have them cut the rear fenders a little or pull them out. I think I met you at the Cendiv championships last year, I didn't do to well there.
I ran the car for the first time in the dry after pretty much changing everything on it for this year and my last run (without a cone) would have been good for #1 index against Jeff Cashmore, Darrell Padberg, and some other very good drivers. Darrel's CP mustang only ran about .9s faster, he was last years CP national champ. :)
Phil
Been there with 245s on 16x9 wheels, Steve. The difference is....staggering! :cool: :cool:
We bolted them on...... We have low offset 16x9 wheels and used 16x7 Hart cp-035s last season with 245s. Camber and fenders have been massaged. We rub with the new wheels, but didn't with the Harts.
[/QUOTE]
What 16x9 wheels are you using? I'm looking for something in the 40 offset range so I can clear the struts and run 275s on the WRX. I'm running 16x8 gram lights w/245/45/16 Hoosiers now but would like more tire. :devil: The tire I really wanted to run this year was the 265/45/16 V710, but we all know that story. They are 45 offset and I still need 2mm spacers to make them fit in the rear for strut clearance. I'm likely going to take the car to a good body place and have them cut the rear fenders a little or pull them out. I think I met you at the Cendiv championships last year, I didn't do to well there.
I ran the car for the first time in the dry after pretty much changing everything on it for this year and my last run (without a cone) would have been good for #1 index against Jeff Cashmore, Darrell Padberg, and some other very good drivers. Darrel's CP mustang only ran about .9s faster, he was last years CP national champ. :)
Phil
| Storm | 05-14-2004 07:32 AM |
DWX, I PM'd you with some info.
Tom, I don't know....I guess that could be right. We won't really know until someone really builds a WRX specifically for ESP instead of throwing R-compounds on an STX car.
I know that adding Hoosiers to Priebe's STS winning RS resulted in decent divisional showings (in DSP) with my driving but I have been struggling in Topeka every year. It's taken some radical changes to stay in step with the heavy DSP hitters. We're still trying different things and may very well need to evolve the whole suspension again.
Now that I said that, I should note that the setups for STS/STX have evolved alot since 2000. It is possible that the best ST_ setups are close to what is competitive for _SP. Rules aside, adding the grip of the best R-compounds in the best size for your car is going to require a different suspension setup to get the most out of it.
Jay Storm
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"......
Tom, I don't know....I guess that could be right. We won't really know until someone really builds a WRX specifically for ESP instead of throwing R-compounds on an STX car.
I know that adding Hoosiers to Priebe's STS winning RS resulted in decent divisional showings (in DSP) with my driving but I have been struggling in Topeka every year. It's taken some radical changes to stay in step with the heavy DSP hitters. We're still trying different things and may very well need to evolve the whole suspension again.
Now that I said that, I should note that the setups for STS/STX have evolved alot since 2000. It is possible that the best ST_ setups are close to what is competitive for _SP. Rules aside, adding the grip of the best R-compounds in the best size for your car is going to require a different suspension setup to get the most out of it.
Jay Storm
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"......
| trhoppe | 05-14-2004 09:14 AM |
Its definetly pure speculation on my part, but its based off mine, KCs, and Mike King's times against ESP at national events. We are *barely* off those guys at Pros.
-Tom
-Tom
| jmott | 05-14-2004 10:28 AM |
thats because BMW > camaro
=)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Storm [/i]
[B]DWX, I PM'd you with some info.
Tom, I don't know....I guess that could be right. We won't really know until someone really builds a WRX specifically for ESP instead of throwing R-compounds on an STX car.
I know that adding Hoosiers to Priebe's STS winning RS resulted in decent divisional showings (in DSP) with my driving but I have been struggling in Topeka every year. It's taken some radical changes to stay in step with the heavy DSP hitters. We're still trying different things and may very well need to evolve the whole suspension again.
Now that I said that, I should note that the setups for STS/STX have evolved alot since 2000. It is possible that the best ST_ setups are close to what is competitive for _SP. Rules aside, adding the grip of the best R-compounds in the best size for your car is going to require a different suspension setup to get the most out of it.
Jay Storm
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"...... [/B][/QUOTE]
=)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Storm [/i]
[B]DWX, I PM'd you with some info.
Tom, I don't know....I guess that could be right. We won't really know until someone really builds a WRX specifically for ESP instead of throwing R-compounds on an STX car.
I know that adding Hoosiers to Priebe's STS winning RS resulted in decent divisional showings (in DSP) with my driving but I have been struggling in Topeka every year. It's taken some radical changes to stay in step with the heavy DSP hitters. We're still trying different things and may very well need to evolve the whole suspension again.
Now that I said that, I should note that the setups for STS/STX have evolved alot since 2000. It is possible that the best ST_ setups are close to what is competitive for _SP. Rules aside, adding the grip of the best R-compounds in the best size for your car is going to require a different suspension setup to get the most out of it.
Jay Storm
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"...... [/B][/QUOTE]
| MNbiker | 05-14-2004 10:35 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jmott[/i]
[B] thats because BMW > camaro
=) [/B][/QUOTE]
Tom, when did you start driving an M3?:confused:
THAT explains why you're so stinking fast!:lol: :lol:
-Steve
[B] thats because BMW > camaro
=) [/B][/QUOTE]
Tom, when did you start driving an M3?:confused:
THAT explains why you're so stinking fast!:lol: :lol:
-Steve
| trhoppe | 05-14-2004 12:44 PM |
Huh??
-Tom
who has a 325is on the side ;)
-Tom
who has a 325is on the side ;)
| zzyzx | 05-14-2004 12:44 PM |
Based on my personal experience, IMO it's reasonable to expect an ST_ car to be competitive on Rs. That's the path I took. It's not until this year that I'll be running a setup that is somewhat outside the bounds of the ST_ setups. Other than suspension setup being one of those on-going things, I think most of the significant changes have been SP specific mods.
- Steve
- Steve
| jmott | 05-14-2004 02:06 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe [/i]
[B]Huh??
-Tom
who has a 325is on the side ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
took my 325i to its first track day yesterday
in the rain!!!
needs mo power
gotta run this motor into the ground quick and get an //////M3 motor =)
[B]Huh??
-Tom
who has a 325is on the side ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
took my 325i to its first track day yesterday
in the rain!!!
needs mo power
gotta run this motor into the ground quick and get an //////M3 motor =)
| omahasubaru | 05-23-2004 11:18 PM |
zzyzx,
I can't wait to see those 275's on your car either!
I can't wait to see those 275's on your car either!
| AUTOwrXER | 05-23-2004 11:49 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] zoomfactor - will you be racing locally/regionally or nationally?
I don't think there are any fast ESP guys in the SE except Tommy Pulliam from Atlanta. You should be able to take out everyone with a STX WRX with race rubber. I wouldn't mod it past that because you can go back to STX whenever you want.
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, maybe one other guy who's fast some of the time
;) I'm joining the ESP fold my friends. I think I've got a better platform to start with the STi, but weight will be my challenge. Keeping a drivetrain operational will be yours...
Joel
[B] zoomfactor - will you be racing locally/regionally or nationally?
I don't think there are any fast ESP guys in the SE except Tommy Pulliam from Atlanta. You should be able to take out everyone with a STX WRX with race rubber. I wouldn't mod it past that because you can go back to STX whenever you want.
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, maybe one other guy who's fast some of the time
;) I'm joining the ESP fold my friends. I think I've got a better platform to start with the STi, but weight will be my challenge. Keeping a drivetrain operational will be yours...
Joel
| AUTOwrXER | 05-23-2004 11:55 PM |
BTW, I'm thinking the Hoosier 285/30/18 will be my choice. It will have to be on custom 10" wheels with the required fender mods, of course. I'll probably stick with the Radial wet 245/40/17 on approx stock size wheels, or maybe as much as 9" wide...
| zoomfactor | 05-24-2004 09:18 AM |
Post some pix of the set-up. I'm curious how that "extra" room that is reportedly on the '05 STi's helps with the big rubber.
Good Luck...
Good Luck...
| dwx | 05-24-2004 11:12 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AUTOwrXER [/i]
[B]BTW, I'm thinking the Hoosier 285/30/18 will be my choice. It will have to be on custom 10" wheels with the required fender mods, of course. I'll probably stick with the Radial wet 245/40/17 on approx stock size wheels, or maybe as much as 9" wide... [/B][/QUOTE]
CCW I think already has wheels in 17x10 or 18x10 in that bolt pattern and about the right offset you'd need which is +35 or so. I saw some on an EVO a couple weekends ago running 285/30/18.
[B]BTW, I'm thinking the Hoosier 285/30/18 will be my choice. It will have to be on custom 10" wheels with the required fender mods, of course. I'll probably stick with the Radial wet 245/40/17 on approx stock size wheels, or maybe as much as 9" wide... [/B][/QUOTE]
CCW I think already has wheels in 17x10 or 18x10 in that bolt pattern and about the right offset you'd need which is +35 or so. I saw some on an EVO a couple weekends ago running 285/30/18.
| jmott | 05-24-2004 02:12 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dwx [/i]
[B]CCW I think already has wheels in 17x10 or 18x10 in that bolt pattern and about the right offset you'd need which is +35 or so. I saw some on an EVO a couple weekends ago running 285/30/18. [/B][/QUOTE]
ccw will make whatever bolt pattern and offset you want
[B]CCW I think already has wheels in 17x10 or 18x10 in that bolt pattern and about the right offset you'd need which is +35 or so. I saw some on an EVO a couple weekends ago running 285/30/18. [/B][/QUOTE]
ccw will make whatever bolt pattern and offset you want
| AUTOwrXER | 05-24-2004 09:56 PM |
Yes they will, and I think they make a better product than Kodiak. That's just IMO, btw.
FWIW, I'm not expecting to fit those things under the stock fenders. The rear fenders look like they've got more room than the '04, but not enough for 285 Hoosiers :eek:
FWIW, I'm not expecting to fit those things under the stock fenders. The rear fenders look like they've got more room than the '04, but not enough for 285 Hoosiers :eek:
| dwx | 05-24-2004 10:06 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jmott [/i]
[B]ccw will make whatever bolt pattern and offset you want [/B][/QUOTE]
They said it may be difficult for them to make a wheel 17,18x10 in +35 offset, but they can do +32 with no problems. Those 285/30/18 Hoosiers are just so damn expensive. Vic Sias is running Victoracers on his car and is still kicking everyone's ass in SM, but I don't know if that's due to the tires or the car/driver.
edit:
Something to look into is do like what Erik Stemler (semi-famous DSM autox driver) did at a local event in his ESP EVO. Run 285/30/18 tires on the front and run 245/40/17 tires in the rear, they are almost identical in tire diameter, likely less of a difference for the center diff to care. I'm considering doing this on my SM car, as I think even a WRX could fit that in the front with the right offset wheels, and can certainly fit that in the rear.
[B]ccw will make whatever bolt pattern and offset you want [/B][/QUOTE]
They said it may be difficult for them to make a wheel 17,18x10 in +35 offset, but they can do +32 with no problems. Those 285/30/18 Hoosiers are just so damn expensive. Vic Sias is running Victoracers on his car and is still kicking everyone's ass in SM, but I don't know if that's due to the tires or the car/driver.
edit:
Something to look into is do like what Erik Stemler (semi-famous DSM autox driver) did at a local event in his ESP EVO. Run 285/30/18 tires on the front and run 245/40/17 tires in the rear, they are almost identical in tire diameter, likely less of a difference for the center diff to care. I'm considering doing this on my SM car, as I think even a WRX could fit that in the front with the right offset wheels, and can certainly fit that in the rear.
| AUTOwrXER | 05-24-2004 10:19 PM |
Unless you're running against Tunnel at a National level event, SM is still winable without prepping a car to the limit. The problem, IMO, is that at any given time you may just need to drop $50k to be competitive if someone joins your class. One thing's for sure though, and that's that there will be some good drivers in good cars in Topeka. Bring a big wallet to play that game...
Relatively, the Hoosiers aren't that big an expense when weighed against other class legal mods. I am concerned with getting the big meat up to the operating temp though. The Victoracers don't have that problem.
Relatively, the Hoosiers aren't that big an expense when weighed against other class legal mods. I am concerned with getting the big meat up to the operating temp though. The Victoracers don't have that problem.
| dwx | 05-24-2004 10:21 PM |
I think that's why Stemler was running Victoracers in the front on his ESP EVO and A3S04s in the rear. :)
| AUTOwrXER | 05-24-2004 10:28 PM |
BTW, without doing the measurements, I wouldn't think the 35 (or 32, for that matter) offset would give you enough clearance to the strut. If we take the 32 offset for example, that nets you 21mm more clearance than stock (slightly less than an inch) from the strut. I need to measure the clearance with stock wheels and tires to a 2.5" coilover strut to see what the coilover gains you in space (Andrew?), but I doubt if it's enough to clear 11.4" Hoosiers.
Tire Rack doesn't have specs on the section width of the RE070s. Does anyone know what that measurement is? I'll eventually need to figure out how much more room I need on the inside. Of course, we already know it won't clear the outside (hence the fender mod requirement), so I might as well push them out further than necessary and gain the extra track.
Tire Rack doesn't have specs on the section width of the RE070s. Does anyone know what that measurement is? I'll eventually need to figure out how much more room I need on the inside. Of course, we already know it won't clear the outside (hence the fender mod requirement), so I might as well push them out further than necessary and gain the extra track.
| AUTOwrXER | 05-24-2004 10:34 PM |
Just found the RE070 spec on the Bridgestone website. 8.9" measured on a 7.5" wheel. So the Hoosiers on 10" wheels are exactly 2.5" wider total, and will need 1.25" additional clearance to the strut. Actually, I would imagine that the 32 offset would work with the coilovers, but I need to measure an '04 with RE070s and coilovers to be sure.
| AUTOwrXER | 05-24-2004 10:36 PM |
Not be be a post-whore or anything ;) , but the Hoosiers in 285/30/18 are a little smaller (24.6" vs 24.9") than the RE070s, so that will gain a little space if anything. 3rd gear here I come :devil:
| dwx | 05-24-2004 10:53 PM |
I've tried a few different coilovers and with 2 of the 3 I lost space in the rear for clearance due to the threaded portions being wider than the stock struts. DMS50s (duh) required a 5mm spacer and even then they barely fit. I used a set of Tanabe Sustec RR coilovers (which I liked until I blew one) and those had lots of clearance. Now I have a set of GC Advance Design coilovers and they need ~3mm of spacer to make them fit, but I run the same 5mm spacer. That's with 245 A3S03s on +45 16x8 rims. I'm running ~-1.5 degrees of negative camber in the rear.
| AUTOwrXER | 05-24-2004 11:26 PM |
How do you like the Advance Designs? I'm giving them serious consideration. Did you go with the titanium strut? Also, can you PM me what you paid to help with my negotiations a bit?
| trhoppe | 05-24-2004 11:44 PM |
Joel, one thing you will NOT want to do is go with a shorter tire. You will be in 3rd all the time and losing lots of time. With the power of ESP it will be a mess.
-Tom
-Tom
| AUTOwrXER | 05-24-2004 11:46 PM |
Kiko says the 2005 runs to over 60 in 2nd, unlike the 2004. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I don't want to go to redline with 72 miles on the car :lol:
| trhoppe | 05-24-2004 11:53 PM |
Wow, if they changed the gearing that would be HUGE.
-Tom
-Tom
| AUTOwrXER | 05-24-2004 11:55 PM |
I hear lots of rumors (i.e. weight), but haven't heard any confirmations.
So when are you making the jump, Tom?
So when are you making the jump, Tom?
| DrBiggly | 05-25-2004 12:02 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AUTOwrXER[/i]
[B] Kiko says the 2005 runs to over 60 in 2nd, unlike the 2004. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I don't want to go to redline with 72 miles on the car :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
Why not? Are you a "gentle" break-in advocate or not gentle break-in?
Wait a dang minute; only 72 miles? Dude you need to go driving! :D
[B] Kiko says the 2005 runs to over 60 in 2nd, unlike the 2004. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I don't want to go to redline with 72 miles on the car :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
Why not? Are you a "gentle" break-in advocate or not gentle break-in?
Wait a dang minute; only 72 miles? Dude you need to go driving! :D
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