| leecea | 05-03-2004 08:39 PM |
Slalom technique question
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Assuming equal spacing, I figure the fastest way through a slalom is to maintain a constant speed and do it fast and smooth. Others seem to be constantly on and off the gas.
Any thoughts about throttle technique in a slalom would be very helpful.
BTW: I know that turning early and keeping close to the cones is the biggest goal.
Any thoughts about throttle technique in a slalom would be very helpful.
BTW: I know that turning early and keeping close to the cones is the biggest goal.
| Fred | 05-03-2004 08:46 PM |
Brake as late as possible, then start easing down on the go pedal as you get a rhythm going so that when you exit the slalom your foot is on the floor.
| Scooby Freak | 05-04-2004 07:40 AM |
Full throttle... and if you hit a cone, just glance back to be sure.;)
When I think about it, I have no idea what my right foot is doing, all I try to do is keep running over the backside of the cones. This will help keep your rhythm going, and if you push out a little bit, it won't kill the run, because you will have a little room to recover.
When I think about it, I have no idea what my right foot is doing, all I try to do is keep running over the backside of the cones. This will help keep your rhythm going, and if you push out a little bit, it won't kill the run, because you will have a little room to recover.
| zoomfactor | 05-04-2004 09:10 AM |
[QUOTE]maintain a constant speed and do it fast and smooth.[/QUOTE]
I think that this is the key. Some people (who go slow and get sideways in their 2003 WRX;) ) will often use a quick trailing throttle to get the front to grip or the back to rotate -- generally not the fast way. The fastest guys in my area always look pretty "slow" through the slaloms - with a constant throttle position.
If the slalom looks "exciting" - it's usually slow.
[QUOTE]and if you hit a cone, just glance back to be sure. [/QUOTE] ...never look back:devil:
I think that this is the key. Some people (who go slow and get sideways in their 2003 WRX;) ) will often use a quick trailing throttle to get the front to grip or the back to rotate -- generally not the fast way. The fastest guys in my area always look pretty "slow" through the slaloms - with a constant throttle position.
If the slalom looks "exciting" - it's usually slow.
[QUOTE]and if you hit a cone, just glance back to be sure. [/QUOTE] ...never look back:devil:
| Jaxx | 05-04-2004 11:09 AM |
constant partial trottle until the apex of the 2nd to last cone
| TyrannoSullyRex | 05-04-2004 11:16 AM |
If your hands aren't moving, you don't have enough throttle.
IOW, if you find yourself going straight, then you aren't going fast enough.
IOW, if you find yourself going straight, then you aren't going fast enough.
| FSelekler | 05-04-2004 11:52 AM |
The on/off throttle is really for steering the car through the slalom.
As you are off throttle, the weight transfer to the front and the car steers more decisively in the direction of the steering wheel.
When on throttle, the weight transfers to the rear, stablizes it, and allows for a smoother steering transition towards the other direction, hence allowing again a stable front-end transition.
If the car is setup with a looser end, if you stay on throttle through all the entire slalom - at least in my experience and our car setup - the rear end becomes too loose, causing us to slow down, or it spins.
Obviously, position the car towards the back of the cones is the primary manner to go through the slaloms, but without throttle steering, for me, I loose significant time.
As you are off throttle, the weight transfer to the front and the car steers more decisively in the direction of the steering wheel.
When on throttle, the weight transfers to the rear, stablizes it, and allows for a smoother steering transition towards the other direction, hence allowing again a stable front-end transition.
If the car is setup with a looser end, if you stay on throttle through all the entire slalom - at least in my experience and our car setup - the rear end becomes too loose, causing us to slow down, or it spins.
Obviously, position the car towards the back of the cones is the primary manner to go through the slaloms, but without throttle steering, for me, I loose significant time.
| jmott | 05-04-2004 12:13 PM |
smoothe is fast
but not quite smoothe is faster
watch the guys that get top pax of the day a lot go through slaloms and youll see the read end wagging around.
but not quite smoothe is faster
watch the guys that get top pax of the day a lot go through slaloms and youll see the read end wagging around.
| leecea | 05-04-2004 12:21 PM |
Thanks everyone. I think my car is pretty neutral in slaloms, so maybe that's why I feel like the constant speed approach works for me. The comments regarding exciting being slow and constant motion from turn to turn are good reminders for me to keep in mind as I run.
| Fred | 05-04-2004 12:46 PM |
[QUOTE]watch the guys that get top pax of the day a lot go through slaloms and youll see the read (sic) end wagging around.[/QUOTE]
The only time I wag the tail in a slalom is when it's only 3 cones. Then I enter the slalom fast enough while braking so that I swing the rear tire around the cone as I run a tight line with the front tire, and at I'm full throttle as the middle of the car passes the cone. And if I have to cut back the other way to get around the 3rd cone, it's a quick lift/floor it and I'm through.
If it's a longer slalom, I don't want the rear end to swing out, because that adds time to my run as I try to catch it.
But what do I know? I'm stuck getting 2nd in PAX so far this year... damn boxer4racing WRX!!!
:furious:
[url]http://www.thscc.com/autocross/events/2004/2004-0321indx.html[/url]
[url]http://www.thscc.com/autocross/events/2004/2004-0425indx.html[/url]
The only time I wag the tail in a slalom is when it's only 3 cones. Then I enter the slalom fast enough while braking so that I swing the rear tire around the cone as I run a tight line with the front tire, and at I'm full throttle as the middle of the car passes the cone. And if I have to cut back the other way to get around the 3rd cone, it's a quick lift/floor it and I'm through.
If it's a longer slalom, I don't want the rear end to swing out, because that adds time to my run as I try to catch it.
But what do I know? I'm stuck getting 2nd in PAX so far this year... damn boxer4racing WRX!!!
:furious:
[url]http://www.thscc.com/autocross/events/2004/2004-0321indx.html[/url]
[url]http://www.thscc.com/autocross/events/2004/2004-0425indx.html[/url]
| MNbiker | 05-04-2004 01:13 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Fred [/i]
[B]But what do I know? I'm stuck getting 2nd in PAX so far this year... damn boxer4racing WRX!!!
:furious:
[url]http://www.thscc.com/autocross/events/2004/2004-0321indx.html[/url]
[url]http://www.thscc.com/autocross/events/2004/2004-0425indx.html[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
Interesting....Shawn beat you by a lot more than Tom. Looks like Tom's losing his edge!;) :lol: :lol:
[B]But what do I know? I'm stuck getting 2nd in PAX so far this year... damn boxer4racing WRX!!!
:furious:
[url]http://www.thscc.com/autocross/events/2004/2004-0321indx.html[/url]
[url]http://www.thscc.com/autocross/events/2004/2004-0425indx.html[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
Interesting....Shawn beat you by a lot more than Tom. Looks like Tom's losing his edge!;) :lol: :lol:
| Midnight_Gold | 05-04-2004 01:31 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MNbiker [/i]
[B]Interesting....Shawn beat you by a lot more than Tom. Looks like Tom's losing his edge!;) :lol: :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
I dunno.... the kryptonite worked over the weekend at the SEDIV..
;)
- Miranda:devil:
[B]Interesting....Shawn beat you by a lot more than Tom. Looks like Tom's losing his edge!;) :lol: :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
I dunno.... the kryptonite worked over the weekend at the SEDIV..
;)
- Miranda:devil:
| solo-x | 05-04-2004 01:37 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by zoomfactor[/i]
[B] If the slalom looks "exciting" - it's usually slow. [/B][/QUOTE]
in the words of the alien. "...the car is crashing for the entire run. you just hang on and try to keep the back behind you."
ask keith what my car is like in a slalom. it's exciting. when i get it "right" i literally can't move my hands any faster. it's physically impossible. each steering input for the next slalom cone is also a "catch" of the back of the car from the previous steering input. this all usually happens with some level of throttle application, but NO LIFT. i sometimes have to slow down more then i'd like entering a fast slalom just so that i can apply throttle throughout without flying off the course. the last cone in the slalom is typically in grave danger. i've punted it with the rear bumper before. :D
nate
[B] If the slalom looks "exciting" - it's usually slow. [/B][/QUOTE]
in the words of the alien. "...the car is crashing for the entire run. you just hang on and try to keep the back behind you."
ask keith what my car is like in a slalom. it's exciting. when i get it "right" i literally can't move my hands any faster. it's physically impossible. each steering input for the next slalom cone is also a "catch" of the back of the car from the previous steering input. this all usually happens with some level of throttle application, but NO LIFT. i sometimes have to slow down more then i'd like entering a fast slalom just so that i can apply throttle throughout without flying off the course. the last cone in the slalom is typically in grave danger. i've punted it with the rear bumper before. :D
nate
| KC | 05-04-2004 01:53 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by solo-x[/i]
[B] ask keith what my car is like in a slalom. it's exciting. [/B][/QUOTE]
I was trying to find that pic of you at nationals, but Gimp moved and no longer has a comcast account.
Nate's car is very interesting.... it really is, foot to the floor and hold on. I took it for a 'spin' at the school on the course and at the end of the slalom, gave a little too much sterring and wheeeeee around we went. Only one to spin the whole day! :D
I guess my answer to the original question would be 'it depends'. What's before or after the slalom? Do you have to give it up near the end to make a corner for the next element? Is the section before the slalom slow? The optimum is to either be holding speed or acellerating through the slalom... any way you can get through it without slowing down while you're in it.
Sure, you may have to slow down at the beginning and find your speed, so entry is important to be lined up to get to the backside of the 2nd cone as best as possible and the ending really depends on the next course element if you have to let up... or the cone before the last, you can just stomp on it....
This is where the 'looking ahead' comes into play, and having a few coursewalks with a few ideas in how fast you'll be going so while you're on couse, you can make minor adjustments.
This past Sunday, we had a 4 cone slalom right at the start... I acellerated all the way through it to a 90 degree right hander. If I just held my speed, since it was the 1st part of the course... I would have been s....l....o....w
So again... 'it depends'. :)
[B] ask keith what my car is like in a slalom. it's exciting. [/B][/QUOTE]
I was trying to find that pic of you at nationals, but Gimp moved and no longer has a comcast account.
Nate's car is very interesting.... it really is, foot to the floor and hold on. I took it for a 'spin' at the school on the course and at the end of the slalom, gave a little too much sterring and wheeeeee around we went. Only one to spin the whole day! :D
I guess my answer to the original question would be 'it depends'. What's before or after the slalom? Do you have to give it up near the end to make a corner for the next element? Is the section before the slalom slow? The optimum is to either be holding speed or acellerating through the slalom... any way you can get through it without slowing down while you're in it.
Sure, you may have to slow down at the beginning and find your speed, so entry is important to be lined up to get to the backside of the 2nd cone as best as possible and the ending really depends on the next course element if you have to let up... or the cone before the last, you can just stomp on it....
This is where the 'looking ahead' comes into play, and having a few coursewalks with a few ideas in how fast you'll be going so while you're on couse, you can make minor adjustments.
This past Sunday, we had a 4 cone slalom right at the start... I acellerated all the way through it to a 90 degree right hander. If I just held my speed, since it was the 1st part of the course... I would have been s....l....o....w
So again... 'it depends'. :)
| MNbiker | 05-04-2004 02:28 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Midnight_Gold [/i]
[B]I dunno.... the kryptonite worked over the weekend at the SEDIV..
;)
- Miranda:devil: [/B][/QUOTE]
Wow, no kidding! That's some serious whup$ass:eek:
Way to go, Tom!:D
[B]I dunno.... the kryptonite worked over the weekend at the SEDIV..
;)
- Miranda:devil: [/B][/QUOTE]
Wow, no kidding! That's some serious whup$ass:eek:
Way to go, Tom!:D
| Fred | 05-04-2004 02:32 PM |
[QUOTE]Interesting....Shawn beat you by a lot more than Tom. Looks like Tom's losing his edge! [/QUOTE]
Actually, I was on the stock (90k mile-old/ busted) suspension plus bigger rear sway bar and 205/55/16 Azeni at the first event. :) I had just bought the car at that point, and hadn't even ordered the Konis yet. At the second event, it was modified a lot more.
And I don't want Tom to lose his edge - don't want to hear any excuses when I kick his *** again this year...
:lol:
Actually, I was on the stock (90k mile-old/ busted) suspension plus bigger rear sway bar and 205/55/16 Azeni at the first event. :) I had just bought the car at that point, and hadn't even ordered the Konis yet. At the second event, it was modified a lot more.
And I don't want Tom to lose his edge - don't want to hear any excuses when I kick his *** again this year...
:lol:
| trhoppe | 05-04-2004 02:54 PM |
[quote] Interesting....Shawn beat you by a lot more than Tom. Looks like Tom's losing his edge! [/quote]
Kevin forgot to mention that Tom coned away his best 2 runs (almost 0.8) that day. My fastest raw with a stupid cone was 0.2 raw behind GH Sharp's AS Boxer :devil: :devil:
Like my car is fast and stuff ;)
Midnight_Gold definetly doesn't take enough credit for how much she helps my driving......seriously....
As far as slaloms go.
I try to brake enough for the slalom while leaving enough room for a good entry. Sometimes that is before the slalom if its tight, but a lot of the time, I try to brake while entering the first gate in the slalom. Its very important to brake enough. If you brake too much, you can always get on the gas, but youre DONE if you get late through the first slalom gate. Then I try to hold on the car through the next gate or two as its really loose on slalom entry, and then smoothly go to wot at the 2 cones from the end. One important thing that I learned. NEVER STOP TURNING. If you ever go straight or stop turning you either will be late for the next gate, or you are going way too slow.
Another thing that has worked for me, was to try to run over the back sides of the cones with your rear wheel. Try it. Its REALLY hard and you'll find that youre turning a whole lot earlier. I've gotten to the point where almost all my cone marks are either on the back door or the back bottom of the sideskirt.
-Tom
Kevin forgot to mention that Tom coned away his best 2 runs (almost 0.8) that day. My fastest raw with a stupid cone was 0.2 raw behind GH Sharp's AS Boxer :devil: :devil:
Like my car is fast and stuff ;)
Midnight_Gold definetly doesn't take enough credit for how much she helps my driving......seriously....
As far as slaloms go.
I try to brake enough for the slalom while leaving enough room for a good entry. Sometimes that is before the slalom if its tight, but a lot of the time, I try to brake while entering the first gate in the slalom. Its very important to brake enough. If you brake too much, you can always get on the gas, but youre DONE if you get late through the first slalom gate. Then I try to hold on the car through the next gate or two as its really loose on slalom entry, and then smoothly go to wot at the 2 cones from the end. One important thing that I learned. NEVER STOP TURNING. If you ever go straight or stop turning you either will be late for the next gate, or you are going way too slow.
Another thing that has worked for me, was to try to run over the back sides of the cones with your rear wheel. Try it. Its REALLY hard and you'll find that youre turning a whole lot earlier. I've gotten to the point where almost all my cone marks are either on the back door or the back bottom of the sideskirt.
-Tom
| Fred | 05-04-2004 03:43 PM |
Ya know, I bet I could've had a coned run that was AT LEAST a second faster than my fastest unconed run... hmmm... and if I had skipped a gate or two, I probably could've had FTD! :eek:
:lol:
:p
:lol:
:p
| Fred | 05-04-2004 03:44 PM |
But, yes - Tom's car is "stupid fast." :furious:
| KC | 05-04-2004 04:23 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Fred[/i]
[B] But, yes - Tom's car is "stupid fast." :furious: [/B][/QUOTE]
It's only as fast as the driver can make it. Soo... did you just call Tom stupid? Hey Tom! Did you hear that? He called you stupid!
:devil:
[B] But, yes - Tom's car is "stupid fast." :furious: [/B][/QUOTE]
It's only as fast as the driver can make it. Soo... did you just call Tom stupid? Hey Tom! Did you hear that? He called you stupid!
:devil:
| trhoppe | 05-04-2004 05:07 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Fred[/i]
[B] Ya know, I bet I could've had a coned run that was AT LEAST a second faster than my fastest unconed run... hmmm... and if I had skipped a gate or two, I probably could've had FTD! :eek:
:lol:
:p [/B][/QUOTE]
That cone baaaarely fell over. If the wind was blowing the other way, it probably would have not fell over :lol:
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC[/i]
[B] It's only as fast as the driver can make it. Soo... did you just call Tom stupid? Hey Tom! Did you hear that? He called you stupid!
:devil: [/B][/QUOTE]
KC has been called insanely fast on multiple occasions :lol:
-Tom
[B] Ya know, I bet I could've had a coned run that was AT LEAST a second faster than my fastest unconed run... hmmm... and if I had skipped a gate or two, I probably could've had FTD! :eek:
:lol:
:p [/B][/QUOTE]
That cone baaaarely fell over. If the wind was blowing the other way, it probably would have not fell over :lol:
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC[/i]
[B] It's only as fast as the driver can make it. Soo... did you just call Tom stupid? Hey Tom! Did you hear that? He called you stupid!
:devil: [/B][/QUOTE]
KC has been called insanely fast on multiple occasions :lol:
-Tom
| MNbiker | 05-04-2004 05:09 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe [/i]
[B]KC has been called insanely fast on multiple occasions :lol:
[/B][/QUOTE]
Or was that fastly insane?:lol: :lol:
[B]KC has been called insanely fast on multiple occasions :lol:
[/B][/QUOTE]
Or was that fastly insane?:lol: :lol:
| Patrick Olsen | 05-06-2004 02:45 AM |
Anyone ever feel that the car just won't steer fast enough in a slalom? I think (although I haven't been able to confirm) that the 2.5GT probably has a slower steering ratio than the RS, WRX, and STi. In tight slaloms I really don't think I can go as fast as the car should be able to go because I just can't get the wheel around quickly enough. Quite frustrating, because it really feels like I'm giving up time.
Anyway, I agree with what has been said by others. I actually had talked to KC about this not too long ago to see what his thoughts were. Turns out I was doing about everything that he has suggested here, but I still feel slow sometimes (back to the rack ratio issue).
It's a good feeling when guys tell you after a run, "I was working out at corner 4. Man, I couldn't believe how close you were to the cones in that slalom!!" :)
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
Anyway, I agree with what has been said by others. I actually had talked to KC about this not too long ago to see what his thoughts were. Turns out I was doing about everything that he has suggested here, but I still feel slow sometimes (back to the rack ratio issue).
It's a good feeling when guys tell you after a run, "I was working out at corner 4. Man, I couldn't believe how close you were to the cones in that slalom!!" :)
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
| StuBeck | 05-06-2004 12:08 PM |
I have the same problem Patrick. I had a decreasing radius slalom at the autocross last weekend (went from 90 feet to 35 by the end) And near the end I was turning A LOT. I just try and go through them smoothly pretty much since I can't get the rear around at all (I'll just understeer) and get as close to the cones as possible.
| Gonz | 05-25-2004 09:45 PM |
since the shortest distance between any two points is a straight line, it is often better to run the slalom in a zig-zag line rather than a smooth, constant speed S-curve.
If the cone is your apex, then you are behind in the slalom. You want to turn in to the cone well before you get to it.
Use the brakes to plant weight on the front tires and allow you to make a nice quick change of direction. Then full power, for a spit second then brake ( in a straight line) get the weight forward, pivot the front end, power on again. Do this all the way through the slalom. This is the fastest way through.
If you are really adventurous you can try to left foot brake to keep the turbo spooled up and really help your throttle response.
It is key to plant the weight on the front end to allow you to turn the car and not push/scrub wide.
Gonz.
If the cone is your apex, then you are behind in the slalom. You want to turn in to the cone well before you get to it.
Use the brakes to plant weight on the front tires and allow you to make a nice quick change of direction. Then full power, for a spit second then brake ( in a straight line) get the weight forward, pivot the front end, power on again. Do this all the way through the slalom. This is the fastest way through.
If you are really adventurous you can try to left foot brake to keep the turbo spooled up and really help your throttle response.
It is key to plant the weight on the front end to allow you to turn the car and not push/scrub wide.
Gonz.
| KC | 05-25-2004 10:00 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Gonz[/i]
[B] since the shortest distance between any two points is a straight line, it is often better to run the slalom in a zig-zag line rather than a smooth, constant speed S-curve.
If the cone is your apex, then you are behind in the slalom. You want to turn in to the cone well before you get to it.
Use the brakes to plant weight on the front tires and allow you to make a nice quick change of direction. Then full power, for a spit second then brake ( in a straight line) get the weight forward, pivot the front end, power on again. Do this all the way through the slalom. This is the fastest way through.
If you are really adventurous you can try to left foot brake to keep the turbo spooled up and really help your throttle response.
It is key to plant the weight on the front end to allow you to turn the car and not push/scrub wide.
Gonz. [/B][/QUOTE]
:huh: Where did you learn this? No offense... but if you do as you suggest, you are going to be MUCH slower. The whole idea of auto-x is speed maintenance... ie: not to give up any speed while going through the course. By adding up to 10-12 more braking inputs.... Yikes! :eek:
You tires can only be doing 100% of one thing at any given time... Turning, Acellerating and braking... A slalom is constant turning... there is no straight line... so braking is right out.... turning should be the 100% of the tire work in a slalom while you maintain your speed until your exit... where you'll be no longer turning and you can acell or decell.
--KC
[B] since the shortest distance between any two points is a straight line, it is often better to run the slalom in a zig-zag line rather than a smooth, constant speed S-curve.
If the cone is your apex, then you are behind in the slalom. You want to turn in to the cone well before you get to it.
Use the brakes to plant weight on the front tires and allow you to make a nice quick change of direction. Then full power, for a spit second then brake ( in a straight line) get the weight forward, pivot the front end, power on again. Do this all the way through the slalom. This is the fastest way through.
If you are really adventurous you can try to left foot brake to keep the turbo spooled up and really help your throttle response.
It is key to plant the weight on the front end to allow you to turn the car and not push/scrub wide.
Gonz. [/B][/QUOTE]
:huh: Where did you learn this? No offense... but if you do as you suggest, you are going to be MUCH slower. The whole idea of auto-x is speed maintenance... ie: not to give up any speed while going through the course. By adding up to 10-12 more braking inputs.... Yikes! :eek:
You tires can only be doing 100% of one thing at any given time... Turning, Acellerating and braking... A slalom is constant turning... there is no straight line... so braking is right out.... turning should be the 100% of the tire work in a slalom while you maintain your speed until your exit... where you'll be no longer turning and you can acell or decell.
--KC
| trhoppe | 05-26-2004 12:50 AM |
:lol: KC, Mike King, and Josh if youre reading this, please do ME a favor and do what Gonz said ;)
-Tom
-Tom
| DrBiggly | 05-26-2004 12:59 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] :lol: KC, Mike King, and Josh if youre reading this, please do ME a favor and do what Gonz said ;)
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol:
I'll have to try that next time. Hold Left foot to the floor and then give it part-throttle. :alien:
[B] :lol: KC, Mike King, and Josh if youre reading this, please do ME a favor and do what Gonz said ;)
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol:
I'll have to try that next time. Hold Left foot to the floor and then give it part-throttle. :alien:
| Kostamojen | 05-26-2004 03:52 AM |
Im usually accelerating full throttle through slaloms, but then again thats what happens with my car and its supreme handling and measly 110hp :lol:
| trhoppe | 05-26-2004 09:19 AM |
You know, I reread that after I copied and pasted it to a friend while laughing at the comment, and I realized, there is NO WAY that this guy can be serious.....
[quote]Im usually accelerating full throttle through slaloms, but then again thats what happens with my car and its supreme handling and measly 110hp[/quote]
Riiiiiiiiight..... :lol:
-Tom
[quote]Im usually accelerating full throttle through slaloms, but then again thats what happens with my car and its supreme handling and measly 110hp[/quote]
Riiiiiiiiight..... :lol:
-Tom
| KC | 05-26-2004 09:23 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] You know, I reread that after I copied and pasted it to a friend while laughing at the comment, and I realized, there is NO WAY that this guy can be serious.....
Riiiiiiiiight..... :lol:
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
1995 Impreza L Coupe
1.8l AWD, Hunter Greeeen!
I'd beleive it. ;)
[B] You know, I reread that after I copied and pasted it to a friend while laughing at the comment, and I realized, there is NO WAY that this guy can be serious.....
Riiiiiiiiight..... :lol:
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
1995 Impreza L Coupe
1.8l AWD, Hunter Greeeen!
I'd beleive it. ;)
| Fred | 05-26-2004 10:34 AM |
Well, Tom - remember when you drove the spec Miata a couple of times during the test & tune last year? You were telling me about how you lifted once through the whole first half of the course, and I was like, holy crap that car must have some grip. Then I realized it had no power...
:lol:
:lol:
| trhoppe | 05-26-2004 10:36 AM |
Sorry, but a 1900lb spec miata with big ass toyos at friggin laurinburg is a bit different ;)
-Tom
-Tom
| Fred | 05-26-2004 10:42 AM |
Actually, there was an autox at VMP last year where I only lifted twice for the whole first half. It went all the way down to the fence at the other end (way the Hell down there), and it had a 30-pace slalom (the one where Peter went off & hit the oil container :lol: ). When I wasn't lifting, my isht was floored - I hit the rev limiter in 3rd twice!
Now that was a fun autox...
:devil:
Now that was a fun autox...
:devil:
| Gonz | 05-26-2004 11:57 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B] if you do as you suggest, you are going to be MUCH slower. The whole idea of auto-x is speed maintenance... ie: not to give up any speed while going through the course.
--KC [/B][/QUOTE]
The benefit of using the brakes during the slalom is to plant weight on the front end, [b] briefly [/b], allowing more steering input and better rotation to point the car in the right direction. This gets you turned quicker and allows you to get back on the gas, rather than just keep even throttle from cone to cone. Also you will be covering a fractionally shorter distance.
If not, with the WRX it will push too much, instead of turn. I have autocrossed low power cars ( 1974 and 1976 BMW 2002) and powerful cars ( Mustang V8) on both street and Rcomp tires, where all you need to do is lift throttle to pivot the car. But with an AWD car, where the front tires are the traction limit, you can put some weight on the front of the car to get the front end to bite.
And yes, you can read about this technique in Solo II books, I don't know why it comes as such a surprise here ?
Gonz.
[B] if you do as you suggest, you are going to be MUCH slower. The whole idea of auto-x is speed maintenance... ie: not to give up any speed while going through the course.
--KC [/B][/QUOTE]
The benefit of using the brakes during the slalom is to plant weight on the front end, [b] briefly [/b], allowing more steering input and better rotation to point the car in the right direction. This gets you turned quicker and allows you to get back on the gas, rather than just keep even throttle from cone to cone. Also you will be covering a fractionally shorter distance.
If not, with the WRX it will push too much, instead of turn. I have autocrossed low power cars ( 1974 and 1976 BMW 2002) and powerful cars ( Mustang V8) on both street and Rcomp tires, where all you need to do is lift throttle to pivot the car. But with an AWD car, where the front tires are the traction limit, you can put some weight on the front of the car to get the front end to bite.
And yes, you can read about this technique in Solo II books, I don't know why it comes as such a surprise here ?
Gonz.
| KC | 05-26-2004 12:04 PM |
Which solo-II books do you read about using brakes while you're in a slalom? Not in any of the ones I've read. Use your brakes before you enter a slalom to set your speed, yes. I can 100% guarantee you will be faster in a slalom is you don't use your brakes at all while you're at or beyond the 2nd cone. (Sometimes course design is as such the 1st cone doesn't matter)
Even speed or acellerating through them is the way. Slowing down and then speeding up to upset the car way too much to be smooth... and smooth is key!
I've autoxed many cars myself. All different kinds. Not to play this card... but you can do what you want, I'll keep winning national championships the way I do it.
Edit: someone just reminded me... on loose surface (gravel/dirt) you DEFINITELY want weight on the front for bite and traction. THAT I totally agree with. On Asphalt/Concrete, you're losing time by braking. You don't need the same amount of bite, if any at all, on the front that you would in snow, dirt, gravel. If you have to break on asphalt/concrete.. you entered the slalom too hot. It should be a continuous, smooth input to the steering that's it.
Try it... don't brake... see if you can get someone to do split times for you.
Even speed or acellerating through them is the way. Slowing down and then speeding up to upset the car way too much to be smooth... and smooth is key!
I've autoxed many cars myself. All different kinds. Not to play this card... but you can do what you want, I'll keep winning national championships the way I do it.
Edit: someone just reminded me... on loose surface (gravel/dirt) you DEFINITELY want weight on the front for bite and traction. THAT I totally agree with. On Asphalt/Concrete, you're losing time by braking. You don't need the same amount of bite, if any at all, on the front that you would in snow, dirt, gravel. If you have to break on asphalt/concrete.. you entered the slalom too hot. It should be a continuous, smooth input to the steering that's it.
Try it... don't brake... see if you can get someone to do split times for you.
| WRX_Mundi | 05-26-2004 12:39 PM |
I'm don't have the experiene that KC does, but I've had quite a few national level drivers drive my car, ride with me, and given rides in their cars to me. I took all three Evolution phases. The techniques I've seen are smooth constant speed, and burst accelerate between cones. Obviously there are the slaloms where you're just full throttle all the way through, typically at the start, but that's a special case. The burst method is trying to add just enough speed to make up for what you lost doing the turn, then back to constant, and it still [i]looks[/i] smooth. I try to do constant speed and do it smoothly -- getting the smooth steering just right means a higher possible speed, and I think that trumps the other techniques. I'm also in stupification at the idea of braking in a slalom.
At my personal level it is a matter of getting the initial braking as close as possible to the right level (always erring on the brake a little too much side -- with an STi I can make it up easily enough, but go too fast and you're hosed), then smooth and tight while getting the steering done at the right time, then accelerate when possible. I'm tweaking the first part, the last part I'm fairly good at, but always working on that middle stuff which needs work.
At my personal level it is a matter of getting the initial braking as close as possible to the right level (always erring on the brake a little too much side -- with an STi I can make it up easily enough, but go too fast and you're hosed), then smooth and tight while getting the steering done at the right time, then accelerate when possible. I'm tweaking the first part, the last part I'm fairly good at, but always working on that middle stuff which needs work.
| Corey | 05-26-2004 12:40 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]you can do what you want, I'll keep winning national championships the way I do it.[/B][/QUOTE]
:lol: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
[B]you can do what you want, I'll keep winning national championships the way I do it.[/B][/QUOTE]
:lol: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
| MNbiker | 05-26-2004 12:45 PM |
Gonz,
I'm not sure how much success you've had autocrossing, but you should listen to some of the advice being offered by KC and others. Some VERY good autocrossers frequent this forum.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]Not to play this card... but you can do what you want, I'll keep winning national championships the way I do it.[/B][/QUOTE]
On a related note, I have seen/read one notable exception to the smooth w/steady acceleration approach to slaloms. In Winning Autocross II Competition (Published in 1977 - not sure it's still in print), Turner & Miles describe a sideslipping technique where you "throw" the car from side to side. I've only personally known one driver who could actually pull this off on a consistent basis, and the technique really only works well for evenly spaced slaloms. Note - Turner & Miles still recommended steady throttle input - the sideslipping is accomplishing via steering inputs.
-Steve
I'm not sure how much success you've had autocrossing, but you should listen to some of the advice being offered by KC and others. Some VERY good autocrossers frequent this forum.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]Not to play this card... but you can do what you want, I'll keep winning national championships the way I do it.[/B][/QUOTE]
On a related note, I have seen/read one notable exception to the smooth w/steady acceleration approach to slaloms. In Winning Autocross II Competition (Published in 1977 - not sure it's still in print), Turner & Miles describe a sideslipping technique where you "throw" the car from side to side. I've only personally known one driver who could actually pull this off on a consistent basis, and the technique really only works well for evenly spaced slaloms. Note - Turner & Miles still recommended steady throttle input - the sideslipping is accomplishing via steering inputs.
-Steve
| paultg | 05-26-2004 12:48 PM |
As a passenger in KC's car through a salom:
My only thoughts were:
1. How is he going so fast.
2. How did the back of the car not hit that cone
3. How did we just not spin
It's seem to me like it is a combination of weight transfer. Weight transfer by steering input and on some cars applying brakes as (Gonz has said) but I've never tried that.
For example:
I think my friend with a '94 Viper modulates his brake pedal as much as his throttle to steer his car through an autox course. I don't see why his trail braking techniques wouldn't apply to a salom.
I usually try to maintain a fast speed and be on the verge of loosing traction (or loosing it in the rear a bit) while steering at that same speed.
I do agree it depends alot on the what is before and after the salom though like KC said.
Paul G.
My only thoughts were:
1. How is he going so fast.
2. How did the back of the car not hit that cone
3. How did we just not spin
It's seem to me like it is a combination of weight transfer. Weight transfer by steering input and on some cars applying brakes as (Gonz has said) but I've never tried that.
For example:
I think my friend with a '94 Viper modulates his brake pedal as much as his throttle to steer his car through an autox course. I don't see why his trail braking techniques wouldn't apply to a salom.
I usually try to maintain a fast speed and be on the verge of loosing traction (or loosing it in the rear a bit) while steering at that same speed.
I do agree it depends alot on the what is before and after the salom though like KC said.
Paul G.
| KC | 05-26-2004 12:49 PM |
Corey, I feel dirty for having said that. But what do you need to do to make someone listen to you? :D
| jsnow | 05-26-2004 12:52 PM |
[SIZE=1]PS: KC doesn't left foot brake.[/SIZE]
| trhoppe | 05-26-2004 01:04 PM |
KC is a dirty old man
It was a lot nicer then saying "Thats probably the reason why youre so slow" ;)
-Tom
It was a lot nicer then saying "Thats probably the reason why youre so slow" ;)
-Tom
| DrBiggly | 05-26-2004 02:30 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] KC is a dirty old man
It was a lot nicer then saying "Thats probably the reason why youre so slow" ;)
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Ouch! At least KC was trying to be nice about it. :)
[B] KC is a dirty old man
It was a lot nicer then saying "Thats probably the reason why youre so slow" ;)
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Ouch! At least KC was trying to be nice about it. :)
| TyrannoSullyRex | 05-26-2004 02:32 PM |
Just a thought, maybe Gonz is referring to a slalom that is spaced 100 ft apart and offset 65 ft?
:D
:D
| jblaine | 05-26-2004 02:43 PM |
Paul, I can't imagine a slalom spaced far enough apart to ever touch the brakes. It's no longer a slalom in that case (to me).
Remember too, that how you do this (constant throttle amount or modulating throttle) might depend a little on turbo vs. NA... there's so little time to be accelerating after a lift (to shift weight forward) as it is... turbo lag's a factor, IMO.
Remember too, that how you do this (constant throttle amount or modulating throttle) might depend a little on turbo vs. NA... there's so little time to be accelerating after a lift (to shift weight forward) as it is... turbo lag's a factor, IMO.
| Gonz | 05-26-2004 05:59 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]Which solo-II books do you read about using brakes while you're in a slalom?
....... Even speed or acellerating through them is the way. Slowing down and then speeding up to upset the car way too much to be smooth... and smooth is key!
Try it... don't brake... see if you can get someone to do split times for you. [/B][/QUOTE]
KC. Congrats on your national championships. That is a great achievement.
The only Solo II book I've read is the Turner & Miles book mentioned in a previous post. I read the book to gain some tips into different techniques and driving style.
The slaloms typically that I see are 4 or 5 cones spaced about 40 to 50 feet apart.
The choice is to accelerate between them or keep a constant speed. Accelerating is faster, right ? wrong ?
Then I find that if I don't put the weight on the front end, the car will not turn. I am not talking about decelerating 5 MPH, just moving weight forward to improve turn in.
I will gladly experiment with a constant speed and have someone video tape or time me. I don't have such an enormous ego where I am not going to try someone's suggestion. I just don't [i] think [/i] the front end grip will be there.
I am sure many of you have been autocrossing since I was in diapers and have thousands of runs under your belt. Congratulations. How about using your experiene to help rather than to waste space making smart remarks ?
I will concede that I am not as experienced or fast as all of you, but I am not a novice. I have done 9 or 10 seasons of autocross, and I also serve as an instructor for new drivers in our local club. If you have a sound explanation of why my technique sucks/doesn't suck, I'm listening. Here to learn not sift through garbage.
Thanks,
G
[B]Which solo-II books do you read about using brakes while you're in a slalom?
....... Even speed or acellerating through them is the way. Slowing down and then speeding up to upset the car way too much to be smooth... and smooth is key!
Try it... don't brake... see if you can get someone to do split times for you. [/B][/QUOTE]
KC. Congrats on your national championships. That is a great achievement.
The only Solo II book I've read is the Turner & Miles book mentioned in a previous post. I read the book to gain some tips into different techniques and driving style.
The slaloms typically that I see are 4 or 5 cones spaced about 40 to 50 feet apart.
The choice is to accelerate between them or keep a constant speed. Accelerating is faster, right ? wrong ?
Then I find that if I don't put the weight on the front end, the car will not turn. I am not talking about decelerating 5 MPH, just moving weight forward to improve turn in.
I will gladly experiment with a constant speed and have someone video tape or time me. I don't have such an enormous ego where I am not going to try someone's suggestion. I just don't [i] think [/i] the front end grip will be there.
I am sure many of you have been autocrossing since I was in diapers and have thousands of runs under your belt. Congratulations. How about using your experiene to help rather than to waste space making smart remarks ?
I will concede that I am not as experienced or fast as all of you, but I am not a novice. I have done 9 or 10 seasons of autocross, and I also serve as an instructor for new drivers in our local club. If you have a sound explanation of why my technique sucks/doesn't suck, I'm listening. Here to learn not sift through garbage.
Thanks,
G
| TyrannoSullyRex | 05-26-2004 06:06 PM |
I've heard the goal of going fast at an autocross is to make as few transitions as possible. When you brake and accelerate during a slalom as well as the turning that is required, you are adding transitions unnecessarily.
| afpdl | 05-26-2004 06:12 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Gonz[/i]
[B]
The choice is to accelerate between them or keep a constant speed. Accelerating is faster, right ? wrong ?
[/B][/QUOTE]
Accelerating is not faster when you are also braking between each cone. Your car is going to slow down a LOT faster then it will accelerate and thats why constant speed has been shown to be faster.
[B]
The choice is to accelerate between them or keep a constant speed. Accelerating is faster, right ? wrong ?
[/B][/QUOTE]
Accelerating is not faster when you are also braking between each cone. Your car is going to slow down a LOT faster then it will accelerate and thats why constant speed has been shown to be faster.
| MNbiker | 05-26-2004 06:43 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Gonz [/i]
[B]The slaloms typically that I see are 4 or 5 cones spaced about 40 to 50 feet apart. [/B][/QUOTE]
You're either hurting for lots or have a Lotus driver designing courses! (speaking from experience on both counts ;) )
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Gonz [/i]
[B]The choice is to accelerate between them or keep a constant speed. Accelerating is faster, right ? wrong ? [/B][/QUOTE]
The goal is a constant rate of acceleration. In a low-power car, this might mean to the floor - in a WRX, it usually means part-throttle. (In an STi, it REALLY means part-throttle! :devil: )
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Gonz [/i]
[B]Then I find that if I don't put the weight on the front end, the car will not turn. I am not talking about decelerating 5 MPH, just moving weight forward to improve turn in. [/B][/QUOTE]
Agreed. However, it's VERY easy to unsettle a car in the middle of several fast transitions. With a properly set up car, you can accomplish the desired weight shift and sharpen turn-in by simply modulating the throttle. This is far less unsettling to the car than braking.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Gonz [/i]
[B]How about using your experiene to help rather than to waste space making smart remarks ?[/B][/QUOTE]
Don't take it personal, you're just new to a forum that happens to have a lot of regulars. (a number of whom actually know what they're talking about :p ) This is a pretty civil place, all in all.
Peace,
-Steve
[B]The slaloms typically that I see are 4 or 5 cones spaced about 40 to 50 feet apart. [/B][/QUOTE]
You're either hurting for lots or have a Lotus driver designing courses! (speaking from experience on both counts ;) )
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Gonz [/i]
[B]The choice is to accelerate between them or keep a constant speed. Accelerating is faster, right ? wrong ? [/B][/QUOTE]
The goal is a constant rate of acceleration. In a low-power car, this might mean to the floor - in a WRX, it usually means part-throttle. (In an STi, it REALLY means part-throttle! :devil: )
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Gonz [/i]
[B]Then I find that if I don't put the weight on the front end, the car will not turn. I am not talking about decelerating 5 MPH, just moving weight forward to improve turn in. [/B][/QUOTE]
Agreed. However, it's VERY easy to unsettle a car in the middle of several fast transitions. With a properly set up car, you can accomplish the desired weight shift and sharpen turn-in by simply modulating the throttle. This is far less unsettling to the car than braking.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Gonz [/i]
[B]How about using your experiene to help rather than to waste space making smart remarks ?[/B][/QUOTE]
Don't take it personal, you're just new to a forum that happens to have a lot of regulars. (a number of whom actually know what they're talking about :p ) This is a pretty civil place, all in all.
Peace,
-Steve
| Kostamojen | 05-26-2004 08:10 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MNbiker [/i]
[B]On a related note, I have seen/read one notable exception to the smooth w/steady acceleration approach to slaloms. In Winning Autocross II Competition (Published in 1977 - not sure it's still in print), Turner & Miles describe a sideslipping technique where you "throw" the car from side to side. I've only personally known one driver who could actually pull this off on a consistent basis, and the technique really only works well for evenly spaced slaloms. Note - Turner & Miles still recommended steady throttle input - the sideslipping is accomplishing via steering inputs.
-Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
I did try that once, but I ended up fishtailing out of the last cone and DNFed... However, I think ill have a better chance pulling it off now since with my recent mods it likes to let the back end slide a bit. The key would be to not fling it TOO much, or ya, fishtail of death with no chance of recovery...
P.S. throppe is out on a war path against me, ignore his posts :p
[B]On a related note, I have seen/read one notable exception to the smooth w/steady acceleration approach to slaloms. In Winning Autocross II Competition (Published in 1977 - not sure it's still in print), Turner & Miles describe a sideslipping technique where you "throw" the car from side to side. I've only personally known one driver who could actually pull this off on a consistent basis, and the technique really only works well for evenly spaced slaloms. Note - Turner & Miles still recommended steady throttle input - the sideslipping is accomplishing via steering inputs.
-Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
I did try that once, but I ended up fishtailing out of the last cone and DNFed... However, I think ill have a better chance pulling it off now since with my recent mods it likes to let the back end slide a bit. The key would be to not fling it TOO much, or ya, fishtail of death with no chance of recovery...
P.S. throppe is out on a war path against me, ignore his posts :p
| DrBiggly | 05-26-2004 08:17 PM |
Blah, his bark is worse than his bite. The worst he can do is post a lot of smack talk and maybe kick your butt on course... What are you worried about? I really hope your L isn't in STX! :eek: :)
| Gonz | 05-26-2004 08:26 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MNbiker [/i]
it's VERY easy to unsettle a car in the middle of several fast transitions. With a properly set up car, you can accomplish the desired weight shift and sharpen turn-in by simply modulating the throttle. This is far less unsettling to the car than braking.
[/B][/QUOTE]
OK. I will give that a try.
G
it's VERY easy to unsettle a car in the middle of several fast transitions. With a properly set up car, you can accomplish the desired weight shift and sharpen turn-in by simply modulating the throttle. This is far less unsettling to the car than braking.
[/B][/QUOTE]
OK. I will give that a try.
G
| Kostamojen | 05-26-2004 09:00 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DrBiggly [/i]
[B]Blah, his bark is worse than his bite. The worst he can do is post a lot of smack talk and maybe kick your butt on course... What are you worried about? I really hope your L isn't in STX! :eek: :) [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually I usually race in ST-X because around here ST-X is still less competitive than ST-S, and all of us tend to just race in ST-X so we can basically just compete against each other :) Its alot of fun. I usually come in 2nd.
However, I have to either go to Reno or Stockton now (both are 2 hour drives) because all the sac locations kicked out the local SCCA/etc. groups :( (we had 3 local groups, and 3 different locations too... really sucks)
[B]Blah, his bark is worse than his bite. The worst he can do is post a lot of smack talk and maybe kick your butt on course... What are you worried about? I really hope your L isn't in STX! :eek: :) [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually I usually race in ST-X because around here ST-X is still less competitive than ST-S, and all of us tend to just race in ST-X so we can basically just compete against each other :) Its alot of fun. I usually come in 2nd.
However, I have to either go to Reno or Stockton now (both are 2 hour drives) because all the sac locations kicked out the local SCCA/etc. groups :( (we had 3 local groups, and 3 different locations too... really sucks)
| trhoppe | 05-27-2004 09:14 AM |
[quote]How about using your experiene to help rather than to waste space making smart remarks ? [/quote]
Next time then, make youre comment in the form of a question rather then a "Hear it is bitch" kind of post ;)
You do not want to upset a car through a slalom. On a car that is setup well, touching the brakes in the middle of the slalom will cause the car to come around. A good entry is required where you scrub off enough speed to be able to get back on the gas through the slalom. Then, you try to maintain that speed for the first few gates. 2 gates before the finish you can smoothly get to WOT.
With your technique, you are probably losing at least 1 to 1.5 seconds per slalom section over doing it the "right" way.
If your car is not turning in, you are also going too fast :) Slow down.
-Tom
Next time then, make youre comment in the form of a question rather then a "Hear it is bitch" kind of post ;)
You do not want to upset a car through a slalom. On a car that is setup well, touching the brakes in the middle of the slalom will cause the car to come around. A good entry is required where you scrub off enough speed to be able to get back on the gas through the slalom. Then, you try to maintain that speed for the first few gates. 2 gates before the finish you can smoothly get to WOT.
With your technique, you are probably losing at least 1 to 1.5 seconds per slalom section over doing it the "right" way.
If your car is not turning in, you are also going too fast :) Slow down.
-Tom
| MNbiker | 05-27-2004 09:37 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe [/i]
[B]....... 2 gates before the finish you can smoothly get to WOT. [/B][/QUOTE]
Assuming there's not a hard turn at the end of the slalom. ;)
(although going to WOT right before a turn could make for some interesting cone carnage!:lol: :lol: )
[B]....... 2 gates before the finish you can smoothly get to WOT. [/B][/QUOTE]
Assuming there's not a hard turn at the end of the slalom. ;)
(although going to WOT right before a turn could make for some interesting cone carnage!:lol: :lol: )
| serautoxer | 05-27-2004 11:26 PM |
Ok,
Here is a summary of things that I have learned from this thread.
1. Tom is STUPID!
2. KC is a Dirty old Man
3. Nate's car is setup STUPID LOOSE
Wait, I already knew all of those.
4. Smooth with a good rythm is much faster through a slalom, unless you have your car setup to do the Toss Catch thing like my old car was.
5. If going the proper speed in a slalom, touching the brake should make you spin as you should already be on the limit of the tyres.
6. If you can't get the car to turn well enough with a nice smooth rythm, you might want to look into making the tail a bit looser.
MK
Here is a summary of things that I have learned from this thread.
1. Tom is STUPID!
2. KC is a Dirty old Man
3. Nate's car is setup STUPID LOOSE
Wait, I already knew all of those.
4. Smooth with a good rythm is much faster through a slalom, unless you have your car setup to do the Toss Catch thing like my old car was.
5. If going the proper speed in a slalom, touching the brake should make you spin as you should already be on the limit of the tyres.
6. If you can't get the car to turn well enough with a nice smooth rythm, you might want to look into making the tail a bit looser.
MK
| Kostamojen | 05-28-2004 02:08 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by serautoxer [/i]
[B]
5. If going the proper speed in a slalom, touching the brake should make you spin as you should already be on the limit of the tyres.
[/B][/QUOTE]
[B]
5. If going the proper speed in a slalom, touching the brake should make you spin as you should already be on the limit of the tyres.
[/B][/QUOTE]
| Patrick Olsen | 05-28-2004 08:14 AM |
Of course, if one is left foot braking in a slalom, that's OK. A number of people have made it sound like braking in a slalom is universally bad, but I've seen people that know how to LFB (I'm not one of those people) use it very, very well in a slalom. If we were to take Gonz' description of how to take a slalom and think of the driver LFBing rather than taking his/her foot off the gas to right foot brake, I think his technique would be just fine.
Then again, what do I know. I have my car set up much less tail-happy than I used to, to the point that I really have to do something drastic to get the tail to come out. At typical slalom speed, I'm not normally able to adjust the angle of attack of the car with the throttle, because the car isn't that loose. Maybe small adjustments, but I'm certainly not at the "touch the brakes and you'll spin" point.
Pat
Then again, what do I know. I have my car set up much less tail-happy than I used to, to the point that I really have to do something drastic to get the tail to come out. At typical slalom speed, I'm not normally able to adjust the angle of attack of the car with the throttle, because the car isn't that loose. Maybe small adjustments, but I'm certainly not at the "touch the brakes and you'll spin" point.
Pat
| trhoppe | 05-28-2004 09:24 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by serautoxer[/i]
[B]
Douglas, MA - MK [/B][/QUOTE]
Wha? :confused:
Teh M4tt is back???
-Tom
[B]
Douglas, MA - MK [/B][/QUOTE]
Wha? :confused:
Teh M4tt is back???
-Tom
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