| Durmiente | 08-10-2006 11:45 PM |
Hankook Ventus RS2 Z212 vs. Falken Azenis RT615
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well, this is probably a pretty common discussion, but i have researched this for a while and now want some personal reviews and opinions... i got a set of stock rims that I want to mount up some dedicated autox tires to. I've narrowed it down to the Hankook Ventus RS2 Z212 or the Falken Azenis RT615s, as both are very popular for auto-x folks.
My options on the stock rim are:
the hankook in 225/45/16
the hankook in 225/50/16
the falken in 225/50/16
the falken has a stiffer sidewall, so getting it in the 50 series is fine. the 'kook is a bit softer though, so i should probably get it in the 45 series to help compensate for this... however, according to the wheel and tyre bible located here:
[url]http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html[/url]
it is optimal to run a 225/45/16 on a rim 7.5"-9" wide and a 225/50/16 on a rim 6"-7.5" wide... this means that the 50 series will be fine with the stock rims, but the 45 series might be sketchy... the guy at discount also expressed some doubt about fitting a 225/45 on my 6.5" rim, and said he wouldnt know until he tried it... so has anyone tried it?
I was originally leaning towards the kooks as i thought they were comprable to the azenis... however i then stumbled upon this article:
[url]http://scca.certaindeath.net/august_100_115_tiretest.pdf[/url]
in it, they test several tires, including the rt215, rt615, and the kooks... the rt615 takes 1st, the rt215 takes second, and the kooks take 4th. so, it has really made me consider the falkens again... this is a pretty good test with 2 drivers in an autox course making 5 runs with each tire (that was shaved first). seems as though neither liked the kooks very much, but both liked the confidence and grip the falken gave... so i'd like to invite everyone with either tire to read the article and give some feedback as to if they think it is true or not (especially about the bad qualities of the kook). also if anyone has tried BOTH, that would be great to hear your feedback. both are excellent tires, and are obviously both great. the question is, which is better? too bad the falkens are more expensive, but it might be worth that extra $80 for a set, considering they should last me about 2 years considering i dont race that often.
My options on the stock rim are:
the hankook in 225/45/16
the hankook in 225/50/16
the falken in 225/50/16
the falken has a stiffer sidewall, so getting it in the 50 series is fine. the 'kook is a bit softer though, so i should probably get it in the 45 series to help compensate for this... however, according to the wheel and tyre bible located here:
[url]http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html[/url]
it is optimal to run a 225/45/16 on a rim 7.5"-9" wide and a 225/50/16 on a rim 6"-7.5" wide... this means that the 50 series will be fine with the stock rims, but the 45 series might be sketchy... the guy at discount also expressed some doubt about fitting a 225/45 on my 6.5" rim, and said he wouldnt know until he tried it... so has anyone tried it?
I was originally leaning towards the kooks as i thought they were comprable to the azenis... however i then stumbled upon this article:
[url]http://scca.certaindeath.net/august_100_115_tiretest.pdf[/url]
in it, they test several tires, including the rt215, rt615, and the kooks... the rt615 takes 1st, the rt215 takes second, and the kooks take 4th. so, it has really made me consider the falkens again... this is a pretty good test with 2 drivers in an autox course making 5 runs with each tire (that was shaved first). seems as though neither liked the kooks very much, but both liked the confidence and grip the falken gave... so i'd like to invite everyone with either tire to read the article and give some feedback as to if they think it is true or not (especially about the bad qualities of the kook). also if anyone has tried BOTH, that would be great to hear your feedback. both are excellent tires, and are obviously both great. the question is, which is better? too bad the falkens are more expensive, but it might be worth that extra $80 for a set, considering they should last me about 2 years considering i dont race that often.
| Uncle Scotty | 08-10-2006 11:58 PM |
get this moved to the motorsports forum
| tuskenraider | 08-11-2006 12:58 AM |
First, a 225/45/16 will fit the stock rim. We had a local guy running them with no problems. I'm sure the tire guy will have to work them a little, just buy him lunch or something. That size would give you better gearing, which the WRX certainly needs. I can't give any personal feedback on the new Azenis, as I drive the Kooks and had the old RT-215's, but most people in the autox circles I've spoken with believe the tires to be about equals. They just need to be driven differently. The Kook seems to be a better rain tire though. All the pro's and con's of the tire designs are covered in the article you note so I won't break it down. Hankook does have a contigency plan and has swayed some drivers to the RS-2, but I've probably seen only one WRX running the Falkens out of 4 different regions I autox in, I guess that says something. The 45 series tire is what would sway me the most.
| 1time | 08-11-2006 02:03 AM |
hello everybody
| thrdeye | 08-11-2006 09:30 AM |
I've driven both, but on different cars in different sizes.
I run the Hankook in a 235/40/17 on my car and the STi had the 615's in a 245/45/17
My Hankooks definitely turned in better and you can really tell this during highway driving of all things.
I would opt for the 225/45/16 Hankook. They are a very good tire and you will not be disappointed. The 615, may have more grip, but this depends a lot on driving style, car setup, etc., IMHO, of course. It is also debatable.
To put it in perspective, a local driver tested the Hankooks, Azenis, and Kumho MX's on his car all in the same day. The MX's were faster for him and his car, despite what he felt. This was not a WRX or a Subaru, however. Just an example.
I run the Hankook in a 235/40/17 on my car and the STi had the 615's in a 245/45/17
My Hankooks definitely turned in better and you can really tell this during highway driving of all things.
I would opt for the 225/45/16 Hankook. They are a very good tire and you will not be disappointed. The 615, may have more grip, but this depends a lot on driving style, car setup, etc., IMHO, of course. It is also debatable.
To put it in perspective, a local driver tested the Hankooks, Azenis, and Kumho MX's on his car all in the same day. The MX's were faster for him and his car, despite what he felt. This was not a WRX or a Subaru, however. Just an example.
| fantomrex24 | 08-11-2006 10:35 AM |
im glad someone shot up this thread b/c im stuck in the same sitiation. i have the stock wheels but dont know what size tires to go w/ for autoXing. i thought about 215/50 r16s in either the fuzions, falkens, or the "kooks". but i apreciate all the input fellas. any opinion on the fuzions? zr1s? :banana: damn thats a happy fast rubber banana!
late
brad
late
brad
| thrdeye | 08-11-2006 10:38 AM |
[QUOTE=fantomrex24]im glad someone shot up this thread b/c im stuck in the same sitiation. i have the stock wheels but dont know what size tires to go w/ for autoXing. i thought about 215/50 r16s in either the fuzions, falkens, or the "kooks". but i apreciate all the input fellas. any opinion on the fuzions? zr1s? :banana: damn thats a happy fast rubber banana!
late
brad[/QUOTE]
Boo to Fuzions and Zr1's
HOORAY BEER!
Seriously, they will not be good autoX tires.
For most cars, you want the smallest sidewall and widest tread that will fit on the wheel.
There are some (few?) cars that benefit from using a taller sidewall.
late
brad[/QUOTE]
Boo to Fuzions and Zr1's
HOORAY BEER!
Seriously, they will not be good autoX tires.
For most cars, you want the smallest sidewall and widest tread that will fit on the wheel.
There are some (few?) cars that benefit from using a taller sidewall.
| mesa50w | 08-11-2006 10:38 AM |
kooks +1
| fantomrex24 | 08-11-2006 10:41 AM |
lol. hooray beer indeed! what is a more popular size tire for autoXin other than the 225/45? well, w/ a smaller sidewall & more contact rubber.
BOO creepy foot dr.! HOOORAY BEER! :banana: damn thats a happy beer guzzling banana!
late
brad
BOO creepy foot dr.! HOOORAY BEER! :banana: damn thats a happy beer guzzling banana!
late
brad
| JTJ 2.5 | 08-11-2006 10:45 AM |
I've been really happy with the hankooks. I've been running them since June as my street/track tire and have had no issues. I have heard of a couple people haveing chunking issues at the track but I'm not one of them. The other thing about the Hankooks that I really like is how good they are in the rain. I havent run the Falkens (thats what I originally wanted but the were on back order at the time) so I cant really comment on them.
| jcroy66 | 08-11-2006 10:51 AM |
First, the GRM test was one of the best tire tests I've seen to date. However, it still had a very basic flaw - the setup was not tuned for each tire. I seem to recall Per saying that the setup had been developed originally for the RT-215. From what I've heard, of the "new" tires, the RT-615 can best utilize a RT-215 setup. I can personally vouch for the Yokohama liking a different setup than the 215 setup. All the Kook drivers I've talked to have said the same thing about the Kooks. You can't just say "oh hey, I'll throw different tires on this car and not change anything else and it'll be just as fast as if I optimized the setup for each tire". Which the article mentions. Some people will prefer some tires because of their driving style, and other people will prefer other tires. And then there's the "which tire comes in the best size for my car?" Or considering the type of courses. Or the vehicle itself - how heavy is it, how's the suspension, drivetrain type, etc.
So basically, there's little you can REALLY garner from that test, other than that "the 615s, 215s, Yoks, and Kooks are all fast". :p
So pick one.
So basically, there's little you can REALLY garner from that test, other than that "the 615s, 215s, Yoks, and Kooks are all fast". :p
So pick one.
| jcroy66 | 08-11-2006 10:54 AM |
[QUOTE=fantomrex24]what is a more popular size tire for autoXin other than the 225/45? well, w/ a smaller sidewall & more contact rubber.[/QUOTE]What most (maybe all?) of the national level STX WRXs around the country are on - 235/40-17s.
| waktasz | 08-11-2006 11:00 AM |
245/35!!!
| jcroy66 | 08-11-2006 11:11 AM |
True. 245/35 would be really awesome. But the top tires aren't available in that size. And from the testing I've seen, I'm personally not convinced that the size advantage can overcome the grip disadvantage. But if one of the top tires were to come out with a 245/35? Most likely game over...
| Student Driver | 08-11-2006 12:41 PM |
I've had the Hankooks in 225/50-16 and 235/40-17, and Falken 215 in 205/55-16. The Falkens in stock size were way better than the Hankooks in 225/50-16s as the Hankooks had the turn-in of a large pillow. In mud. Also, the Hankooks did [i]not[/i] like the poor stock camber curve of my 2002 2.5RS or my 2004 WRX. I went to the stock size Falkens and the car handled loads better and the outside edges didn't burn up.
Now, here's where things are a bit different. I added Prodrive springs, PDE camber plates, and a 22mm FSB. The Falkens responded well to these things, and the car seemed fine. When I went to my 17x8 with the 235/40-17 Hankooks, the car came to life. I run around 3* of negative camber with slight toe out at events, and 2* negative camber and 0 toe for daily driving. With this much camber, I finally have even wear across my tire and I run on asphalt and extremely grippy concrete. These are also my daily driving tires. The Hankooks are fantastic with this setup, although I do have to water down the edges between runs here in AZ.
So, as pointed out before, the tires do need different setups. The 215s (and from what I've read, heard, and seen they are similar to 615s) were more tolerant of poor camber than the Hankooks. Also, over-sizing the tire on the stock rim wasn't fun. And above all, get better control of your camber to make them last and work well.
Now, here's where things are a bit different. I added Prodrive springs, PDE camber plates, and a 22mm FSB. The Falkens responded well to these things, and the car seemed fine. When I went to my 17x8 with the 235/40-17 Hankooks, the car came to life. I run around 3* of negative camber with slight toe out at events, and 2* negative camber and 0 toe for daily driving. With this much camber, I finally have even wear across my tire and I run on asphalt and extremely grippy concrete. These are also my daily driving tires. The Hankooks are fantastic with this setup, although I do have to water down the edges between runs here in AZ.
So, as pointed out before, the tires do need different setups. The 215s (and from what I've read, heard, and seen they are similar to 615s) were more tolerant of poor camber than the Hankooks. Also, over-sizing the tire on the stock rim wasn't fun. And above all, get better control of your camber to make them last and work well.
| thrdeye | 08-11-2006 12:49 PM |
Yep,
I run about 2.5 in the front, 0.5 in the rear on the Hankooks.
Car handles like it has a large RSB, but I have the stock one back there to prevent wheel lift.
I run about 2.5 in the front, 0.5 in the rear on the Hankooks.
Car handles like it has a large RSB, but I have the stock one back there to prevent wheel lift.
| fantomrex24 | 08-11-2006 01:09 PM |
i have tein s-tech springs w/ stock shocks & running the yokohama avid v4 tires right now. well their my street tires. but the sidewall is kinda soft. i need a good grippy autoX tire that will hold up well. i am ordering helix swaybars. 22mm in the front 23-24mm in rear. so the falkens would be the best bet? :banana: damn thats a happy well balanced banana!
late
brad
late
brad
| DrBiggly | 08-11-2006 01:18 PM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66]True. 245/35 would be really awesome. But the top tires aren't available in that size. And from the testing I've seen, I'm personally not convinced that the size advantage can overcome the grip disadvantage. But if one of the top tires were to come out with a 245/35? Most likely game over...[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Whatever tire one does choose, one must setup their vehicle to take maximum advantage of the tire. It's really pretty much a crapshoot on the tires within 99%. :)
-Biggly
Exactly. Whatever tire one does choose, one must setup their vehicle to take maximum advantage of the tire. It's really pretty much a crapshoot on the tires within 99%. :)
-Biggly
| jcroy66 | 08-11-2006 01:20 PM |
Good analysis, Student Driver. :)
| Student Driver | 08-11-2006 01:26 PM |
:disco: :)
| mofugga | 08-11-2006 03:22 PM |
i was in your boat a few weeks ago & went with the 225/45/16 kooks after much thought & they won the poll i posted :D i haven't had a chance to run 'em yet, nor have i run the new azenis but either is a good choice, flip a coin if you can't decide :lol: of your choices the 225/45/16 is the better option cause the wrx gearing sucks from what i hear & you can use all the grunt you can get coming outta tight turns due to the smaller diameter.
| Durmiente | 08-11-2006 03:50 PM |
mofugga- did your 225/45 fit up with few problems to the stock rim? I just wanna make sure the normal tech at discount has no problem with it.
my setup is stock rear camber and -0.9 in the front. I have front and rear strut bars and front and rear whiteline endlinks coupled with front and rear solid 27mm whiteline sway bars. everything else is stock. in the next year i might be adding helix or megan coilovers OR kyb agxes with STI v7 pinks OR koni inserts+ground controls. so in the first 2 cases i might have crappy camber problems and will need plates and bolts to get as much adjustment as possible... given this information, what do you think? It is a wagon so any strut/coilover mod will make the camber go to hell... so I need to choose a tire that will work with my current and future setup... right now i am leaning towards the falken as the camber isnt very high, but if i could get the camber up there then i would be set up pretty good for the hankook.
my setup is stock rear camber and -0.9 in the front. I have front and rear strut bars and front and rear whiteline endlinks coupled with front and rear solid 27mm whiteline sway bars. everything else is stock. in the next year i might be adding helix or megan coilovers OR kyb agxes with STI v7 pinks OR koni inserts+ground controls. so in the first 2 cases i might have crappy camber problems and will need plates and bolts to get as much adjustment as possible... given this information, what do you think? It is a wagon so any strut/coilover mod will make the camber go to hell... so I need to choose a tire that will work with my current and future setup... right now i am leaning towards the falken as the camber isnt very high, but if i could get the camber up there then i would be set up pretty good for the hankook.
| thrdeye | 08-11-2006 04:00 PM |
Go coilovers...most come with plates already attached. I know the Megans do and you can get more camber than you will need out of them.
| MachinesWRX | 08-11-2006 07:14 PM |
ive got the kooks in 205/55
I havent run them on the track yet but so far they grip very well....far more then the WRX suspension can handle :(
I havent run them on the track yet but so far they grip very well....far more then the WRX suspension can handle :(
| pio!pio! | 08-11-2006 07:30 PM |
hankook in 225/45/15 or rt615 in 205/50/15 on a 15x7 wheel?
would the lower profile of the hankook and more tread width make up for the softer sidewall?
would the lower profile of the hankook and more tread width make up for the softer sidewall?
| mofugga | 08-11-2006 07:31 PM |
[QUOTE=Durmiente]mofugga- did your 225/45 fit up with few problems to the stock rim? I just wanna make sure the normal tech at discount has no problem with it.[/QUOTE]
yea no problem
yea no problem
| V8eta | 08-12-2006 06:52 AM |
I run the Hankook RS2 in a 205/50/16 on my circuit/street car on 16x6.5" rims. They seem to love camber on the front, i have wound the camber out to 3.5deg with 11kg springs all round. Found that 36-38deg cel hot temp seem to work fairly good.
Will be trying a 225/45/16 Toyo R888 next on a 16x7" wrx rim.
Will be trying a 225/45/16 Toyo R888 next on a 16x7" wrx rim.
| Durmiente | 08-12-2006 12:22 PM |
not sure if i can make great camber like that with the wagon suspension... i heard that going to a sedan coilover/strut loses you 0.7 degrees of camber.
currently the tech could only get -0.9 on the right front and -1.3 on the left. (does this mean that there is something wrong with the right side? I thought stock spec was -1.3 max). anyhow, that is why both are at -0.9 currently. that means that a sedan strut will give me -0.2 max, which sucks. i dont know how much camber adjustability is in plates, so I would like to see what maximum numbers i can get with those... that will make a huge impact then on my tire choice.
because of the above, i kind of want to stick with the stock struts and do inserts (koni) so my car is alligned properly. that means a whole lot of $$ and research to do it right, but if that is what it takes... i dont think there are any wagon specific struts out there. i saw some wagon specific kybs once on ebay, and they used the MY01 impreza front struts along with the wrx rear struts... does this make any sense? maybe the older style front struts are the same as the wagon struts?
currently the tech could only get -0.9 on the right front and -1.3 on the left. (does this mean that there is something wrong with the right side? I thought stock spec was -1.3 max). anyhow, that is why both are at -0.9 currently. that means that a sedan strut will give me -0.2 max, which sucks. i dont know how much camber adjustability is in plates, so I would like to see what maximum numbers i can get with those... that will make a huge impact then on my tire choice.
because of the above, i kind of want to stick with the stock struts and do inserts (koni) so my car is alligned properly. that means a whole lot of $$ and research to do it right, but if that is what it takes... i dont think there are any wagon specific struts out there. i saw some wagon specific kybs once on ebay, and they used the MY01 impreza front struts along with the wrx rear struts... does this make any sense? maybe the older style front struts are the same as the wagon struts?
| thrdeye | 08-12-2006 12:38 PM |
maybe I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to wagons, but coilovers with camber plates can get you upwards of -3.5 degrees in teh front.....
| Durmiente | 08-13-2006 01:35 PM |
if that is the case then the 'kook would work well... however over on clubwrx big sky said that he thought that the 225/45 would be pushing it on the stock rim... given that it does work (as evidenced by the post above) i'm not sure what he meant... however, even if it fits, it might not be optimal because it still might be too wide for that rim? this is gonna be a tough decision between the kooks and the falkens.
will there be any rubbing issues at stock ride height or once i lower? i wouldnt think so with the stock rim and 225, but you never know.
will there be any rubbing issues at stock ride height or once i lower? i wouldnt think so with the stock rim and 225, but you never know.
| theo79 | 01-04-2008 03:36 AM |
bump for more info on this
i have 215/40/17 rt 615's right now
the width and sidewall wasnt cutting it for me so im upgrading to 225/45/17 's
and now its the debate whether or not to stick with the rt 615 or try the rs2
i have 215/40/17 rt 615's right now
the width and sidewall wasnt cutting it for me so im upgrading to 225/45/17 's
and now its the debate whether or not to stick with the rt 615 or try the rs2
| Butt Dyno | 01-04-2008 08:31 AM |
^ What do you use the car for?
| WJM | 01-04-2008 08:43 AM |
Hankook RS2 Z212's FTW.
However, in the heat they must be tended to.
However, in the heat they must be tended to.
| solo-x | 01-04-2008 08:54 AM |
:lol: I saw the thread title and said to myself "did I just time warp to 2006?". Then I saw the OP date. :lol:
The Hankook's are a great DD tire. However, if you're going to turn a wheel in competition and you want to be competitive, you should be looking at the Yoko's or 'Stones. The new Kumho and Toyo are looking pretty good too.
The Hankook's are a great DD tire. However, if you're going to turn a wheel in competition and you want to be competitive, you should be looking at the Yoko's or 'Stones. The new Kumho and Toyo are looking pretty good too.
| joey1313 | 01-04-2008 08:58 AM |
Are the kumho and toyo out yet? Anyone know the model names of the tires?
| theo79 | 01-04-2008 11:39 AM |
the kumho mx's im also considering but i heard the sidewalls werent that great.
butt dyno- i use the car for mostly autox but theres an occasional track day every now and then
butt dyno- i use the car for mostly autox but theres an occasional track day every now and then
| Scooby921 | 01-04-2008 01:04 PM |
For auto-x in a WRX on street tires...
Neova in a 235/40R17 or RE-01R in a 245/40R17 were the tires of choice for most of last season. I run the Neovas and they are far and away better than the hankooks. I just wish they were closer to affordable. I may be switching to bridgestone to save a little money...or giving the new kumho or toyo offerings a try.
Neova in a 235/40R17 or RE-01R in a 245/40R17 were the tires of choice for most of last season. I run the Neovas and they are far and away better than the hankooks. I just wish they were closer to affordable. I may be switching to bridgestone to save a little money...or giving the new kumho or toyo offerings a try.
| Cannonbolt | 01-04-2008 02:22 PM |
Running Falken Azenis RT-615 in 235/40/18 and I absolutely love them. I'm not too far away from ordering my second set.
| Kostamojen | 01-04-2008 04:33 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby921;20596689]For auto-x in a WRX on street tires...
Neova in a 235/40R17 or RE-01R in a 245/40R17 were the tires of choice for most of last season. I run the Neovas and they are far and away better than the hankooks. I just wish they were closer to affordable. I may be switching to bridgestone to save a little money...or giving the new kumho or toyo offerings a try.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
The Neovas are for strickly dry though... If you do need them as daily driver tires, go with the RE-01R's. I just got a set of those, and they work FAR better in the wet than the Hankooks, and far better in the dry as well. COMPLETELY worth the extra price!
I've also had MX's before, and I have to say, the bump up to the RE-01R's is worth it for anyone. I would have gone with Neovas, but as I said, those are not that great of a DD rain tire...
Neova in a 235/40R17 or RE-01R in a 245/40R17 were the tires of choice for most of last season. I run the Neovas and they are far and away better than the hankooks. I just wish they were closer to affordable. I may be switching to bridgestone to save a little money...or giving the new kumho or toyo offerings a try.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
The Neovas are for strickly dry though... If you do need them as daily driver tires, go with the RE-01R's. I just got a set of those, and they work FAR better in the wet than the Hankooks, and far better in the dry as well. COMPLETELY worth the extra price!
I've also had MX's before, and I have to say, the bump up to the RE-01R's is worth it for anyone. I would have gone with Neovas, but as I said, those are not that great of a DD rain tire...
| triguy | 01-05-2008 01:08 AM |
I use the Hankooks in 235/40/17s on my wagon for daily driving. Great daily driving tire: reasonable price, sticky, not too firm of sidewall, you can get at lot of miles on them, and they are pretty quiet on the street. For the track or auto-x, a street tire with a firmer sidewall like the Bridgestone or Neova or a R-compound tire would be better. I run at -2.5 camber in front. Use to have it set a -3 but the inside tread wear was too aggressive.
| gh32 | 01-05-2008 03:05 AM |
[QUOTE=Scooby921;20596689]For auto-x in a WRX on street tires...
Neova in a 235/40R17 or RE-01R in a 245/40R17 were the tires of choice for most of last season. I run the Neovas and they are far and away better than the hankooks. I just wish they were closer to affordable. I may be switching to bridgestone to save a little money...or giving the new kumho or toyo offerings a try.[/QUOTE]
How well do the 245/40R17 RE-01Rs fit under the fenders of an 05 WRX? I'm pretty sure I can't roll or pull fenders in STX.
Neova in a 235/40R17 or RE-01R in a 245/40R17 were the tires of choice for most of last season. I run the Neovas and they are far and away better than the hankooks. I just wish they were closer to affordable. I may be switching to bridgestone to save a little money...or giving the new kumho or toyo offerings a try.[/QUOTE]
How well do the 245/40R17 RE-01Rs fit under the fenders of an 05 WRX? I'm pretty sure I can't roll or pull fenders in STX.
| solo-x | 01-05-2008 11:23 AM |
You can roll the fenders, but you can't pull them. No idea on tire fitment for that car.
| Durmiente | 01-11-2008 02:14 PM |
Don't forget the new offering from Dunlop (the Direzza Sport Z1)... it is more competitively priced ($130ish for 235/40/17) and might be a good tire... it's what I am leaning towards right now because the Bridgestones IMO are still a bit too pricey (unless they do another $100 rebate for SCCA members).
More info on the Dunlop:
[url]http://www.dunloptires.com/news/2006/press10_31_06_direzzaSportZ1.html[/url]
AFAIK the Kumho won't be available for this season. THe new Toyo is the Proxes R1R... it also comes in 245/35/17!!! But you should expect to pay ~$200 per tire (which is waaaaay out of my price range, unfortunately... Maybe next year.
More info on the Dunlop:
[url]http://www.dunloptires.com/news/2006/press10_31_06_direzzaSportZ1.html[/url]
AFAIK the Kumho won't be available for this season. THe new Toyo is the Proxes R1R... it also comes in 245/35/17!!! But you should expect to pay ~$200 per tire (which is waaaaay out of my price range, unfortunately... Maybe next year.
| generalee69 | 01-11-2008 02:54 PM |
[QUOTE=Durmiente;20688230]Don't forget the new offering from Dunlop (the Direzza Sport Z1)... it is more competitively priced ($130ish for 235/40/17) and might be a good tire... it's what I am leaning towards right now because the Bridgestones IMO are still a bit too pricey (unless they do another $100 rebate for SCCA members).
More info on the Dunlop:
[url]http://www.dunloptires.com/news/2006/press10_31_06_direzzaSportZ1.html[/url]
AFAIK the Kumho won't be available for this season. THe new Toyo is the Proxes R1R... it also comes in 245/35/17!!! But you should expect to pay ~$200 per tire (which is waaaaay out of my price range, unfortunately... Maybe next year.[/QUOTE]
I picked up a set of the Direzza Z1's to run as rain tires (auto-x and track) and DD(spring/summer). After reading the TireRack test I couldn't turn away from them. They lose a bit to the Neova's in the dry in that test, but do really well in the wet. Which is what I was looking for since I run Hoosiers in the dry. Not to mention they were $80ea less than the Neovas (225/45/17).
I also have a set of Hankook RS-2'S and BFGoodrich KDW 2's in my garage. Just doing the old finger nail poke test the Dunlops are much softer/stickier.
It will be interesting to see how they perform this spring.
More info on the Dunlop:
[url]http://www.dunloptires.com/news/2006/press10_31_06_direzzaSportZ1.html[/url]
AFAIK the Kumho won't be available for this season. THe new Toyo is the Proxes R1R... it also comes in 245/35/17!!! But you should expect to pay ~$200 per tire (which is waaaaay out of my price range, unfortunately... Maybe next year.[/QUOTE]
I picked up a set of the Direzza Z1's to run as rain tires (auto-x and track) and DD(spring/summer). After reading the TireRack test I couldn't turn away from them. They lose a bit to the Neova's in the dry in that test, but do really well in the wet. Which is what I was looking for since I run Hoosiers in the dry. Not to mention they were $80ea less than the Neovas (225/45/17).
I also have a set of Hankook RS-2'S and BFGoodrich KDW 2's in my garage. Just doing the old finger nail poke test the Dunlops are much softer/stickier.
It will be interesting to see how they perform this spring.
| Durmiente | 01-11-2008 04:25 PM |
[QUOTE=generalee69;20688974]I picked up a set of the Direzza Z1's to run as rain tires (auto-x and track) and DD(spring/summer). After reading the TireRack test I couldn't turn away from them. They lose a bit to the Neova's in the dry in that test, but do really well in the wet. Which is what I was looking for since I run Hoosiers in the dry. Not to mention they were $80ea less than the Neovas (225/45/17).
I also have a set of Hankook RS-2'S and BFGoodrich KDW 2's in my garage. Just doing the old finger nail poke test the Dunlops are much softer/stickier.
It will be interesting to see how they perform this spring.[/QUOTE]
Can you comment on how they perform in the dry at all (even if just from on-road testing?) I am sort of looking at either the Dunlops or another set of RT615s. You're the first person I've encountered that has actually tried the Dunlops. So I'm excited to hear all of you impressions.
I also have a set of Hankook RS-2'S and BFGoodrich KDW 2's in my garage. Just doing the old finger nail poke test the Dunlops are much softer/stickier.
It will be interesting to see how they perform this spring.[/QUOTE]
Can you comment on how they perform in the dry at all (even if just from on-road testing?) I am sort of looking at either the Dunlops or another set of RT615s. You're the first person I've encountered that has actually tried the Dunlops. So I'm excited to hear all of you impressions.
| generalee69 | 01-11-2008 06:45 PM |
[QUOTE=Durmiente;20690644]Can you comment on how they perform in the dry at all (even if just from on-road testing?) I am sort of looking at either the Dunlops or another set of RT615s. You're the first person I've encountered that has actually tried the Dunlops. So I'm excited to hear all of you impressions.[/QUOTE]
Whoops sorry to mislead. I have purchased them, but they are sitting in my garage waiting to be mounted until March. I was referencing the TireRack test results when comparing them to the Neova's.
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/TireTestServlet?tireMake=Dunlop&tireModel=Direzza+Sport+Z1[/url]
But if you are willing to wait 3 or 4 months I will let you know what I think :)
Whoops sorry to mislead. I have purchased them, but they are sitting in my garage waiting to be mounted until March. I was referencing the TireRack test results when comparing them to the Neova's.
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/TireTestServlet?tireMake=Dunlop&tireModel=Direzza+Sport+Z1[/url]
But if you are willing to wait 3 or 4 months I will let you know what I think :)
| Durmiente | 01-12-2008 12:48 PM |
[QUOTE=generalee69;20692551]Whoops sorry to mislead. I have purchased them, but they are sitting in my garage waiting to be mounted until March. I was referencing the TireRack test results when comparing them to the Neova's.
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/TireTestServlet?tireMake=Dunlop&tireModel=Direzza+Sport+Z1[/url]
But if you are willing to wait 3 or 4 months I will let you know what I think :)[/QUOTE]
lol ok. Yeah my RT615s from last season are pretty much trashed (two are half-bald) so they may be good for a few PCA auto-xes but before the SCCA season starts I'll be getting a new set. That will be in March sometime... so let me know if you try them before then :)
That TireRack test is what got my attention... the Dunlops look pretty worthy if they can keep up pretty close to the Stones.... I just wish Tire Rack carried and tested Falkens, as that is really the only tire I have auto-xed on.
That test does bring up an interesting point, though. Why does no one seem to run the BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD? That tire seems to be excluded from ST* classes.... I rarely see anyone use them or even talk about them.
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/TireTestServlet?tireMake=Dunlop&tireModel=Direzza+Sport+Z1[/url]
But if you are willing to wait 3 or 4 months I will let you know what I think :)[/QUOTE]
lol ok. Yeah my RT615s from last season are pretty much trashed (two are half-bald) so they may be good for a few PCA auto-xes but before the SCCA season starts I'll be getting a new set. That will be in March sometime... so let me know if you try them before then :)
That TireRack test is what got my attention... the Dunlops look pretty worthy if they can keep up pretty close to the Stones.... I just wish Tire Rack carried and tested Falkens, as that is really the only tire I have auto-xed on.
That test does bring up an interesting point, though. Why does no one seem to run the BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD? That tire seems to be excluded from ST* classes.... I rarely see anyone use them or even talk about them.
| generalee69 | 01-13-2008 01:20 AM |
I ran the KDW 2's as a street tires and for a couple of wet autocrosses this season.... got my butt kick vs Paulson (STU national champ) and Tight-N-Tidy Racing. But I am seriously kidding myself if I think the only reason they beat me was due to tires.......
For the price I think they (Direzza's) are worthy of a shot.
Do you run the Street Tire class for SCCA? If not have you checked into take off tires? You can get some really low hour tires from some of the BMW and Porsche pro teams.
BTW-- Along with the Falken I would also be really curious to see how the RS-2 compares.... but TireRack has also chosen to leave those out!
For the price I think they (Direzza's) are worthy of a shot.
Do you run the Street Tire class for SCCA? If not have you checked into take off tires? You can get some really low hour tires from some of the BMW and Porsche pro teams.
BTW-- Along with the Falken I would also be really curious to see how the RS-2 compares.... but TireRack has also chosen to leave those out!
| Durmiente | 01-13-2008 11:29 PM |
[QUOTE=generalee69;20704842]I ran the KDW 2's as a street tires and for a couple of wet autocrosses this season.... got my butt kick vs Paulson (STU national champ) and Tight-N-Tidy Racing. But I am seriously kidding myself if I think the only reason they beat me was due to tires.......
For the price I think they (Direzza's) are worthy of a shot.
Do you run the Street Tire class for SCCA? If not have you checked into take off tires? You can get some really low hour tires from some of the BMW and Porsche pro teams.
BTW-- Along with the Falken I would also be really curious to see how the RS-2 compares.... but TireRack has also chosen to leave those out![/QUOTE]
I run straight up STX. I won my region's title this year and was thinking of moving up to ESP with an Enginuity flash and R-comps but I am trying really hard to stay in STX. Once I go to an R-compound, I probably won't want to go back... besides, I like STX because of the low PAX :D
I am moving mid-season so no matter what I won't be able to compete in any region I race in for points... so I suppose going to ESP won't be a big deal; but right now STX is more of a way to limit the money I spend on the car :)
And with that strategy, I'll be choosing the most competive/affordable tire I can get my hands on - likely either the Hankooks, Dunlops, or Falkens.
For the price I think they (Direzza's) are worthy of a shot.
Do you run the Street Tire class for SCCA? If not have you checked into take off tires? You can get some really low hour tires from some of the BMW and Porsche pro teams.
BTW-- Along with the Falken I would also be really curious to see how the RS-2 compares.... but TireRack has also chosen to leave those out![/QUOTE]
I run straight up STX. I won my region's title this year and was thinking of moving up to ESP with an Enginuity flash and R-comps but I am trying really hard to stay in STX. Once I go to an R-compound, I probably won't want to go back... besides, I like STX because of the low PAX :D
I am moving mid-season so no matter what I won't be able to compete in any region I race in for points... so I suppose going to ESP won't be a big deal; but right now STX is more of a way to limit the money I spend on the car :)
And with that strategy, I'll be choosing the most competive/affordable tire I can get my hands on - likely either the Hankooks, Dunlops, or Falkens.
| dstan | 01-14-2008 12:01 AM |
I have seen this thread for a while and bite my tongue everytime, but having had both the RS-2 and the Azenis there is no compairison!!!! The Azenis win hands down.
not saying the Kooks are bad, they report alot better when they are pushed.
that is why they are a great learning tire.
when I bought the Azenis, wow what an eye opener I totally love these tires.
I guess my next move will be the TOYO R1R's, actually considering the 15" for STS
not saying the Kooks are bad, they report alot better when they are pushed.
that is why they are a great learning tire.
when I bought the Azenis, wow what an eye opener I totally love these tires.
I guess my next move will be the TOYO R1R's, actually considering the 15" for STS
| george3 | 01-14-2008 12:19 PM |
[COLOR="Black"][B][U]Question[/U][/B]:[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Black"]With the Hankook in 225/45/16...
Who has experience with these tires on a lapping track, like Watkins Glen, or VIR?
How are they on the track when it is WET ???[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Black"]With the Hankook in 225/45/16...
Who has experience with these tires on a lapping track, like Watkins Glen, or VIR?
How are they on the track when it is WET ???[/COLOR]
| Durmiente | 01-14-2008 12:37 PM |
[QUOTE=dstan;20713807]I have seen this thread for a while and bite my tongue everytime, but having had both the RS-2 and the Azenis there is no compairison!!!! The Azenis win hands down.
not saying the Kooks are bad, they report alot better when they are pushed.
that is why they are a great learning tire.
when I bought the Azenis, wow what an eye opener I totally love these tires.
I guess my next move will be the TOYO R1R's, actually considering the 15" for STS[/QUOTE]
Good to know. THat was sort of the feeling I got when I was researching my size (235/40/17) a few months after I originally posted this topic (I ended up just breaking down and bought 17x8s). Now, you sort of get the feeling that the Falken is not as good as the Bridgestones, but who knows. It seems the Bridgestones don't perform as well once they are warmed up. My friend in his EVO seems to only get his top times in the first 3-4 runs, but after that the tires don't have much. I personally would love to test the Bridgestones, but I think I'd rather test the less expensive Dunlops :)
not saying the Kooks are bad, they report alot better when they are pushed.
that is why they are a great learning tire.
when I bought the Azenis, wow what an eye opener I totally love these tires.
I guess my next move will be the TOYO R1R's, actually considering the 15" for STS[/QUOTE]
Good to know. THat was sort of the feeling I got when I was researching my size (235/40/17) a few months after I originally posted this topic (I ended up just breaking down and bought 17x8s). Now, you sort of get the feeling that the Falken is not as good as the Bridgestones, but who knows. It seems the Bridgestones don't perform as well once they are warmed up. My friend in his EVO seems to only get his top times in the first 3-4 runs, but after that the tires don't have much. I personally would love to test the Bridgestones, but I think I'd rather test the less expensive Dunlops :)
| joey1313 | 01-14-2008 02:18 PM |
[QUOTE=dstan;20713807]I have seen this thread for a while and bite my tongue everytime, but having had both the RS-2 and the Azenis there is no compairison!!!! The Azenis win hands down.
not saying the Kooks are bad, they report alot better when they are pushed.
that is why they are a great learning tire.
when I bought the Azenis, wow what an eye opener I totally love these tires.
I guess my next move will be the TOYO R1R's, actually considering the 15" for STS[/QUOTE]
Did you test these on track or autox? What were the laptime differences between the 2?
not saying the Kooks are bad, they report alot better when they are pushed.
that is why they are a great learning tire.
when I bought the Azenis, wow what an eye opener I totally love these tires.
I guess my next move will be the TOYO R1R's, actually considering the 15" for STS[/QUOTE]
Did you test these on track or autox? What were the laptime differences between the 2?
| JamesWilson | 01-14-2008 03:04 PM |
The Z212 is a great wet tire. I used them as Rains last year in solo Stock class, they channel water very well. Even won a ProSolo on them in '06 against Andy Hollis, in the rain/slush :) I think they are better wet than dry, where the RT615 and others have an advantage. The 'kooks are better street drivers and last a very long time, though.
| george3 | 01-14-2008 03:11 PM |
[B][COLOR="Black"]Sounds like a great review. Just the kind of tires I'm looking for.
Now.... I need 4 - 225/45/16, RS2, Z212's....
Where can I get them cheap ????[/COLOR][/B]
[I][COLOR="Blue"]The Z212 is a great wet tire. I used them as Rains last year in solo Stock class, they channel water very well. Even won a ProSolo on them in '06 against Andy Hollis, in the rain/slush I think they are better wet than dry, where the RT615 and others have an advantage. The 'kooks are better street drivers and last a very long time, though.[/COLOR][/I]
Now.... I need 4 - 225/45/16, RS2, Z212's....
Where can I get them cheap ????[/COLOR][/B]
[I][COLOR="Blue"]The Z212 is a great wet tire. I used them as Rains last year in solo Stock class, they channel water very well. Even won a ProSolo on them in '06 against Andy Hollis, in the rain/slush I think they are better wet than dry, where the RT615 and others have an advantage. The 'kooks are better street drivers and last a very long time, though.[/COLOR][/I]
| dstan | 01-14-2008 04:15 PM |
[QUOTE=joey1313;20719351]Did you test these on track or autox? What were the laptime differences between the 2?[/QUOTE]
Actually I have only autocrossed on them, But I still have both set and will compaire them at the next test and tune and put my findings here
Actually I have only autocrossed on them, But I still have both set and will compaire them at the next test and tune and put my findings here
| Josh[ua] | 01-14-2008 05:50 PM |
ah im on the same boat as the OP but im leaning towards the kooks right now cause i dont autox often and i use my car for dd.
so does anybody know if these kook rs2s are good for the track? i was thinking of going to my first track event next month.
so does anybody know if these kook rs2s are good for the track? i was thinking of going to my first track event next month.
| Kostamojen | 01-14-2008 09:44 PM |
[QUOTE=george3;20720227]The 'kooks are better street drivers and last a very long time, though.[/QUOTE]
Actually, the Hankooks don't last that long...
Actually, the Hankooks don't last that long...
| Josh[ua] | 01-14-2008 09:53 PM |
[quote=Kostamojen;20725351]Actually, the Hankooks don't last that long...[/quote]
how long did they last from your experience?
how long did they last from your experience?
| dstan | 01-14-2008 10:24 PM |
[QUOTE=Kostamojen;20725351]Actually, the Hankooks don't last that long...[/QUOTE]
I totally agree i have 3/32 on the Kooks after 15 AX's
but still have lots of life on my Azenis after 2 AX's they will be gone faster
but if you want a long lasting tire you need to not do any motorsports!!!
maybe buy a Michelin synergy for you minivan.
and I am joking as always
I totally agree i have 3/32 on the Kooks after 15 AX's
but still have lots of life on my Azenis after 2 AX's they will be gone faster
but if you want a long lasting tire you need to not do any motorsports!!!
maybe buy a Michelin synergy for you minivan.
and I am joking as always
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