| gills | 11-11-2005 12:53 PM |
The (sometimes) harsh reality of doing HPDE's
�
�
Limerock park, connecticut. My brother's M3 swapped 318ti that we put a lot of love and effort into. Coming out of turn 1 (big bend) on cold tires, in cold weather on a cold track.
A quick word of advice for those that are just starting DE's, take it easy the first couple of laps!! This happened starting the 2nd lap on the last session of the day. My brother had to learn the hard way and i had told him to start easy because ambient temp was 43 F.
Luckily though the way he hit the tirewall didn't break or bend any suspension parts. His car was able to be driven home from the track albeit with no driver side window for 2+ hours! Amazingly, the car doesn't pull, the steering wheel is somewhat straight and there or no fluid leaks. All cosmetic damage. All the hardwork that was put into it is still alive!! At this point i think he's going to turn it into a track only car.
[IMG]http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTEyNTY3OTZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTEyNTY3NzZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTEyNTY3ODZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg[/IMG]
A quick word of advice for those that are just starting DE's, take it easy the first couple of laps!! This happened starting the 2nd lap on the last session of the day. My brother had to learn the hard way and i had told him to start easy because ambient temp was 43 F.
Luckily though the way he hit the tirewall didn't break or bend any suspension parts. His car was able to be driven home from the track albeit with no driver side window for 2+ hours! Amazingly, the car doesn't pull, the steering wheel is somewhat straight and there or no fluid leaks. All cosmetic damage. All the hardwork that was put into it is still alive!! At this point i think he's going to turn it into a track only car.
[IMG]http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTEyNTY3OTZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTEyNTY3NzZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTEyNTY3ODZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg[/IMG]
| RB5 Clone | 11-11-2005 12:57 PM |
reality sandwich
�
�
Simple truth of racing: you race, and sooner or later stuff gets bent.
you guys just did it sooner.
Dave G
[url]www.lastditchracing.net[/url]
you guys just did it sooner.
Dave G
[url]www.lastditchracing.net[/url]
| that1dude | 11-11-2005 01:00 PM |
Damn, that sucks. Poor little Bimmer. Good to hear the car is still mechanically sound and that the driver was OK enough to drive home... long live the sleeper mentality! :devil:
| KIDREX | 11-11-2005 01:16 PM |
i saw that yesterday. i can't imagine what itd be liek to do that myself. In time i guess, just hopefully much later.
i was the white wrx #33
i was the white wrx #33
| ratt_finkel | 11-11-2005 01:28 PM |
Ouch, that's a bummer. Another reason to try autocross first.
| gills | 11-11-2005 01:51 PM |
[QUOTE=KIDREX]i saw that yesterday. i can't imagine what itd be liek to do that myself. In time i guess, just hopefully much later.
i was the white wrx #33[/QUOTE]
I was thinking the same thing.
Didn't you go off right before turn 3 on the 2nd or 3rd session? It wasn't nearly as dramatic as my brother's off but i felt like i was bringing bad luck on people when i was behind them.
i was the white wrx #33[/QUOTE]
I was thinking the same thing.
Didn't you go off right before turn 3 on the 2nd or 3rd session? It wasn't nearly as dramatic as my brother's off but i felt like i was bringing bad luck on people when i was behind them.
| AndrewSS | 11-11-2005 02:45 PM |
oh man that sucks :( atleast he is ok
| endeavor | 11-11-2005 03:32 PM |
[QUOTE=gills]Luckily though the way he hit the tirewall didn't break or bend any suspension parts.... the steering wheel is somewhat straight...[/quote]
:confused: :confused:
If it was only body damage how come the steering is off center?
him = safe ==> me = :banana:
:confused: :confused:
If it was only body damage how come the steering is off center?
him = safe ==> me = :banana:
| gills | 11-11-2005 03:40 PM |
[QUOTE=endeavor]:confused: :confused:
If it was only body damage how come the steering is off center?
him = safe ==> me = :banana:[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your concern.
alignment got knocked out. Tie rods are straight as well as other links.
If it was only body damage how come the steering is off center?
him = safe ==> me = :banana:[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your concern.
alignment got knocked out. Tie rods are straight as well as other links.
| kwak | 11-11-2005 03:52 PM |
If the front wheel took a side hit expect bearing damage. A crew chief friend automatically replaces a wheel bearing after a side hit like that.
Before my very fist track day I was told if you aren't prepared to roll your car up in a ball and throw it away, DON'T take it on track.
Before my very fist track day I was told if you aren't prepared to roll your car up in a ball and throw it away, DON'T take it on track.
| Scott Farmer | 11-11-2005 04:01 PM |
I know it feels bad, but the important thing is that nothing other than your pride and wallets are hurt. I went off in the first lap, first session at VIR and hit a tirewall in my STi. You do this stuff long enough, and it'll happen.
| IS300 | 11-11-2005 04:27 PM |
I find that driving schools/ lapping days are relatively accident free, at least
the ones I have attended, about 30 days worth over the last 3 years.
I haven't been at the track when they happen, but hear about them at other tracks that I won't go to.
I think the reason for the accident free events I have attended is because the track I go to, Putnam Park in Indiana, is a relatively safe track with lots of run off room. Only one corner out of ten has something you can hit, armco on that corner.
I would rather travel 4 hours to Putnam Park instead of 45 minutes to my local track, Gateway International in St. Louis because of the lack of runoff room and significantly greater risks I want to avoid at my local track.
Look for a track with run off room if you want to try a track day and minimize your risk and they are not nearly as dangerous as the roads we travel especially if we are traveling fast.
the ones I have attended, about 30 days worth over the last 3 years.
I haven't been at the track when they happen, but hear about them at other tracks that I won't go to.
I think the reason for the accident free events I have attended is because the track I go to, Putnam Park in Indiana, is a relatively safe track with lots of run off room. Only one corner out of ten has something you can hit, armco on that corner.
I would rather travel 4 hours to Putnam Park instead of 45 minutes to my local track, Gateway International in St. Louis because of the lack of runoff room and significantly greater risks I want to avoid at my local track.
Look for a track with run off room if you want to try a track day and minimize your risk and they are not nearly as dangerous as the roads we travel especially if we are traveling fast.
| WagonMonster | 11-11-2005 04:32 PM |
My friend stacked his Integra at Willow Springs yesterday.
It happens.
It happens.
| KIDREX | 11-11-2005 04:32 PM |
gills...yes i did go off at turn 3 in the 2nd session from clipping that puddle of water at the apex of turn 2. who would've thunk that water meant slippy :confused:
I also went off in the last session at turn 2 and ended up in the swampy stuff. no damage, just a very out of balance wheel cuz it filled up with mud.
this was my first time ever at limerock, i can't wait to get back next year
I also went off in the last session at turn 2 and ended up in the swampy stuff. no damage, just a very out of balance wheel cuz it filled up with mud.
this was my first time ever at limerock, i can't wait to get back next year
| euro | 11-11-2005 04:40 PM |
Wow, I remember you guys from Watkins Glen in Sept. I was the white STI with all the stickers on it.
Glad to hear he's not going to give up on the track days.
Glad to hear he's not going to give up on the track days.
| pio!pio! | 11-11-2005 05:41 PM |
[QUOTE=WagonMonster]My friend stacked his Integra at Willow Springs yesterday.
It happens.[/QUOTE]
details? how did it happen? I'm heading to willow springs next month
It happens.[/QUOTE]
details? how did it happen? I'm heading to willow springs next month
| gills | 11-11-2005 06:11 PM |
kid,
i thought that was you and i was 1 car behind you when you splashed through that puddle. A little unnerving, eh? :)
I forgot about that last time you had an off. You went WAY off. We were all watching you and were all like "the beauty of AWD" because that was some seriously swampy stuff. Good thing you didn't damage anything.
You were definitely one of the quicker ones out there though. Don't know if you agree or not, but there were a fair amount of people that weren't supposed to be in group 2. Some of them were moving WAAAY to slow and WAAY off line to be in 2. It was frustrating at times.
I was #44 by the way.
Euro,
Of course i remember you man! Thanks for letting me use your pyrometer a thousands times at the Glenn :D Have you been tracking your STi still?
i thought that was you and i was 1 car behind you when you splashed through that puddle. A little unnerving, eh? :)
I forgot about that last time you had an off. You went WAY off. We were all watching you and were all like "the beauty of AWD" because that was some seriously swampy stuff. Good thing you didn't damage anything.
You were definitely one of the quicker ones out there though. Don't know if you agree or not, but there were a fair amount of people that weren't supposed to be in group 2. Some of them were moving WAAAY to slow and WAAY off line to be in 2. It was frustrating at times.
I was #44 by the way.
Euro,
Of course i remember you man! Thanks for letting me use your pyrometer a thousands times at the Glenn :D Have you been tracking your STi still?
| KIDREX | 11-11-2005 06:56 PM |
[QUOTE=gills]
I forgot about that last time you had an off. You went WAY off. We were all watching you and were all like "the beauty of AWD" because that was some seriously swampy stuff. Good thing you didn't damage anything.
[/QUOTE]
yeah, the car just kept going :lol: was nice to be able to just drive right out of it...wasn't there a car in group 4 or 3 earlier in the day that they had to black flag the field to be able to tow him out of there?
i saw the splash in come up above my window and i was just like oh hey its water, thats kinda weird. but it really didn't occur to be a problem to me, probably cuz i'm so new to this. i just made sure i kept my distance from then on.
i was one of those guys supposed to be in group 1 since this was only my 3rd time on a track ...they moved us up since there was a lack of instructors. seemed to work out alright though. Not fast enough thuogh, those evos kept taking me.
I forgot about that last time you had an off. You went WAY off. We were all watching you and were all like "the beauty of AWD" because that was some seriously swampy stuff. Good thing you didn't damage anything.
[/QUOTE]
yeah, the car just kept going :lol: was nice to be able to just drive right out of it...wasn't there a car in group 4 or 3 earlier in the day that they had to black flag the field to be able to tow him out of there?
i saw the splash in come up above my window and i was just like oh hey its water, thats kinda weird. but it really didn't occur to be a problem to me, probably cuz i'm so new to this. i just made sure i kept my distance from then on.
i was one of those guys supposed to be in group 1 since this was only my 3rd time on a track ...they moved us up since there was a lack of instructors. seemed to work out alright though. Not fast enough thuogh, those evos kept taking me.
| nate49509 | 11-12-2005 02:03 PM |
[QUOTE=RB5 Clone]Simple truth of racing: you race, and sooner or later stuff gets bent.
you guys just did it sooner.
Dave G
[url]www.lastditchracing.net[/url][/QUOTE]
The same thing can be said for driving on the street. Sooner or later your going to get into an accident.
HPDE are not races. Your not supposed to drive the track at ten tenths.
you guys just did it sooner.
Dave G
[url]www.lastditchracing.net[/url][/QUOTE]
The same thing can be said for driving on the street. Sooner or later your going to get into an accident.
HPDE are not races. Your not supposed to drive the track at ten tenths.
| no-coast-punk | 11-12-2005 02:11 PM |
[QUOTE=kwak]
Before my very fist track day I was told if you aren't prepared to roll your car up in a ball and throw it away, DON'T take it on track.[/QUOTE]
This is why I don't understand why people take their daily drivers out on the track. The best driver in the world in a perfect car will still stuff it in the wall given enough time. If you don't you're not pushing enough.
Before my very fist track day I was told if you aren't prepared to roll your car up in a ball and throw it away, DON'T take it on track.[/QUOTE]
This is why I don't understand why people take their daily drivers out on the track. The best driver in the world in a perfect car will still stuff it in the wall given enough time. If you don't you're not pushing enough.
| GarySheehan | 11-12-2005 02:40 PM |
[QUOTE=nate49509]HPDE are not races. Your not supposed to drive the track at ten tenths.[/QUOTE]
?! You're not supposed to RACE. Driving your car at 10/10ths is fine.
Just understand there is no room for error at 10/10ths and you WILL go off if you make one. That last 1/10th can get expensive.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
?! You're not supposed to RACE. Driving your car at 10/10ths is fine.
Just understand there is no room for error at 10/10ths and you WILL go off if you make one. That last 1/10th can get expensive.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| Patrick Olsen | 11-12-2005 11:38 PM |
[QUOTE=no-coast-punk]This is why I don't understand why people take their daily drivers out on the track.[/quote]
Because not all of us have the means or facilities or desire to support a track-only car, the tow vehicle, the trailer, and the extra space to house all that. And when it comes down to it, HPDE-ing is pretty damn safe, so the overwhelming majority of participants can track their daily driver without any worries of bending sheetmetal at an event.
[quote=no-coast-punk]The best driver in the world in a perfect car will still stuff it in the wall given enough time. If you don't you're not pushing enough.[/QUOTE]
Again, it's a HPDE, not a race. I agree that if you're pushing the limits all the time, eventually you will step past the line and crunch your car. Been there, done that (quite famously I might add). But at a HPDE there really isn't any need to be pushing [i]that[/i] hard. (Which is not to say that I don't... :) )
[quote=Gary Sheehan]Driving your car at 10/10ths is fine.[/quote]
Agree on that one, too. On the one hand, I'm sure my car could be driven harder/faster by a more capable driver, but I'm generally pushing about as hard as I can. Really the only time I can think of consciously driving 7 or 8/10ths (of my ability) was on the 2 occasions I ran my sister's WRX wagon. She did me a huge favor by letting me open track her car while mine was out of commission, it would have been rather ****ty of me to repay the favor by wrecking her car. :) And even then, I still went out and flogged it as hard as I could for the first few laps of each session to "see what she'll do", then backed it off a bit for the rest of the session.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
Because not all of us have the means or facilities or desire to support a track-only car, the tow vehicle, the trailer, and the extra space to house all that. And when it comes down to it, HPDE-ing is pretty damn safe, so the overwhelming majority of participants can track their daily driver without any worries of bending sheetmetal at an event.
[quote=no-coast-punk]The best driver in the world in a perfect car will still stuff it in the wall given enough time. If you don't you're not pushing enough.[/QUOTE]
Again, it's a HPDE, not a race. I agree that if you're pushing the limits all the time, eventually you will step past the line and crunch your car. Been there, done that (quite famously I might add). But at a HPDE there really isn't any need to be pushing [i]that[/i] hard. (Which is not to say that I don't... :) )
[quote=Gary Sheehan]Driving your car at 10/10ths is fine.[/quote]
Agree on that one, too. On the one hand, I'm sure my car could be driven harder/faster by a more capable driver, but I'm generally pushing about as hard as I can. Really the only time I can think of consciously driving 7 or 8/10ths (of my ability) was on the 2 occasions I ran my sister's WRX wagon. She did me a huge favor by letting me open track her car while mine was out of commission, it would have been rather ****ty of me to repay the favor by wrecking her car. :) And even then, I still went out and flogged it as hard as I could for the first few laps of each session to "see what she'll do", then backed it off a bit for the rest of the session.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
| adhowe70 | 11-13-2005 12:34 AM |
You take the risks you can afford. This means making a conscious decision about whether you can afford to drive 10/10ths or not. Everyone that drives on a closed course (autocross, track, rally) needs to make the decision about how hard they can afford to push.
HPDE's are about learning and having fun. You CAN do both at 9/10ths.
The last track day I did, they had a policy. You got one free spin. If you spun your car a second time (more than 2 wheels off counted as a spin) you were parked for the day. The attitude was, "Go ahead and drive as hard as you safely can." It was like a reminder not do drive over your head. This is what HPDE's should be about.
Andy H.
Many spins autocrossing, only one on an open track!
HPDE's are about learning and having fun. You CAN do both at 9/10ths.
The last track day I did, they had a policy. You got one free spin. If you spun your car a second time (more than 2 wheels off counted as a spin) you were parked for the day. The attitude was, "Go ahead and drive as hard as you safely can." It was like a reminder not do drive over your head. This is what HPDE's should be about.
Andy H.
Many spins autocrossing, only one on an open track!
| leecea | 11-13-2005 08:15 AM |
[QUOTE]You take the risks you can afford. This means making a conscious decision about whether you can afford to drive 10/10ths or not.[/QUOTE]
I understand what you and others are saying, but I don't think it's so easy to calibrate your driving. Crashes happen because people are at more 10ths than they think. I'm sure that many people who crash thought they were driving within their affordable limits right up until the car let go!
I understand what you and others are saying, but I don't think it's so easy to calibrate your driving. Crashes happen because people are at more 10ths than they think. I'm sure that many people who crash thought they were driving within their affordable limits right up until the car let go!
| RB5 Clone | 11-13-2005 08:42 AM |
all this shows how the real focus of performance driving is sharpening your judgement, so you can really understand what 9/10s or 10/10 really is.
another part of the learning curve, is that you discover first-hand how costs tend to get "inflated" along the way!
Dave G
[url]www.lastditchracing.net[/url]
another part of the learning curve, is that you discover first-hand how costs tend to get "inflated" along the way!
Dave G
[url]www.lastditchracing.net[/url]
| adhowe70 | 11-13-2005 11:28 AM |
[QUOTE=RB5 Clone]all this shows how the real focus of performance driving is sharpening your judgement, so you can really understand what 9/10s or 10/10 really is.[/QUOTE]
Ahh... the real reason I think people should autocross quite a bit before they go out on track. Autocross lets you learn the difference between 9/10ths and 11/10ths with a generally lower level of risk than track events.
And if you don't know the difference between 9/10ths and 10/10ths and can't afford the consequences of 11/10ths, you need to recognize that before you go out. Ask for an instructor and tell the instructor what your needs are. If you're not 100% comfortable solo and the organizers don't offer you an instructor, perhaps you should choose another day.
leecea is right about why most accidents happen. Its not recklessness by the driver or blatant incompetence. Its errors in judgement. And high speeds really magnify those errors. As a participant, you need to understand the risks and your level of competence in the car BEFORE you get in the car. Once you get in the car, especially if you're new to the track, adrenaline takes over and good judgement is often not exercised. That's what instructors are for. "Hey, slow it down a little." coming from the passenger seat does wonders as a reality check.
Ahh... the real reason I think people should autocross quite a bit before they go out on track. Autocross lets you learn the difference between 9/10ths and 11/10ths with a generally lower level of risk than track events.
And if you don't know the difference between 9/10ths and 10/10ths and can't afford the consequences of 11/10ths, you need to recognize that before you go out. Ask for an instructor and tell the instructor what your needs are. If you're not 100% comfortable solo and the organizers don't offer you an instructor, perhaps you should choose another day.
leecea is right about why most accidents happen. Its not recklessness by the driver or blatant incompetence. Its errors in judgement. And high speeds really magnify those errors. As a participant, you need to understand the risks and your level of competence in the car BEFORE you get in the car. Once you get in the car, especially if you're new to the track, adrenaline takes over and good judgement is often not exercised. That's what instructors are for. "Hey, slow it down a little." coming from the passenger seat does wonders as a reality check.
| gills | 11-13-2005 02:25 PM |
To me the whole point of doing HPDEs is to hone my driving skills and to keep it off the street. For me personally, i�d rather wreck my car on the track than on the street.
There are parts of racetracks that allow you to go and test your 10/10ths skill without any drama(i.e. extra runoff room/pavement). That`s where i usually test myself and see how much control i actually have and what i can work with. Then there are parts that obviously have absolutely no room for error whatsoever. That`s where IMO people just need to take it back a tenth or 2. Espeically if they�re driving a daily driver. It�s fine to experiment to that limit on the track but you just have to choose wisely and like some others have said previously, it boils down to judgement. Make that one wrong decision like my brother did and it�s over faster than you could imagine. But my brother unlike some other(and most) HPDE�rs is able to afford his mistake.
:devil: Roll cage will be in next season. :devil:
There are parts of racetracks that allow you to go and test your 10/10ths skill without any drama(i.e. extra runoff room/pavement). That`s where i usually test myself and see how much control i actually have and what i can work with. Then there are parts that obviously have absolutely no room for error whatsoever. That`s where IMO people just need to take it back a tenth or 2. Espeically if they�re driving a daily driver. It�s fine to experiment to that limit on the track but you just have to choose wisely and like some others have said previously, it boils down to judgement. Make that one wrong decision like my brother did and it�s over faster than you could imagine. But my brother unlike some other(and most) HPDE�rs is able to afford his mistake.
:devil: Roll cage will be in next season. :devil:
| Butt Dyno | 11-13-2005 11:38 PM |
*plug*
Miatas are cheap to buy and cheap to operate and make fun track cars :)
*/plug*
I have seen quite a few people I know have expensive offs (or near-expensive offs)... even when they weren't doing anything wrong (hitting a patch of fluid for instance)... I would love to track my WRX, but you can easily do a "Miata" worth of damage ($3k+) or more in a single off.... Murphy's law, etc etc.
It is $$ to have a second car, but it's also $$ to buy an upgraded turbo, BBK, coilovers, good 17" tires (without even having a rollbar, or race seats/harnesses), and you can have a lot of fun with a $3K track car, coz it's not about setting lap times, it's just about getting better.
john
Miatas are cheap to buy and cheap to operate and make fun track cars :)
*/plug*
I have seen quite a few people I know have expensive offs (or near-expensive offs)... even when they weren't doing anything wrong (hitting a patch of fluid for instance)... I would love to track my WRX, but you can easily do a "Miata" worth of damage ($3k+) or more in a single off.... Murphy's law, etc etc.
It is $$ to have a second car, but it's also $$ to buy an upgraded turbo, BBK, coilovers, good 17" tires (without even having a rollbar, or race seats/harnesses), and you can have a lot of fun with a $3K track car, coz it's not about setting lap times, it's just about getting better.
john
| euro | 11-14-2005 09:02 AM |
[QUOTE=gills]Euro,
Of course i remember you man! Thanks for letting me use your pyrometer a thousands times at the Glenn :D Have you been tracking your STi still?[/QUOTE]
Yeah Ive had it back to Summit Point 3 times since WG. I'm done for the year now. Just stripped all the stickers off the car last weekend and gave it a good coat of wax. Looks like a different car now. LOL, I'm off to VIR in February to get my comp school done in my VW racecar.
Wish me luck
Of course i remember you man! Thanks for letting me use your pyrometer a thousands times at the Glenn :D Have you been tracking your STi still?[/QUOTE]
Yeah Ive had it back to Summit Point 3 times since WG. I'm done for the year now. Just stripped all the stickers off the car last weekend and gave it a good coat of wax. Looks like a different car now. LOL, I'm off to VIR in February to get my comp school done in my VW racecar.
Wish me luck
| CirrusWRX | 11-14-2005 03:23 PM |
[QUOTE=KIDREX]...wasn't there a car in group 4 or 3 earlier in the day that they had to black flag the field to be able to tow him out of there?
[/QUOTE]
wow - they black flagged the entire field?
[/QUOTE]
wow - they black flagged the entire field?
| TR | 11-14-2005 07:07 PM |
[QUOTE=Patrick Olsen] I agree that if you're pushing the limits all the time, eventually you will step past the line and crunch your car. Been there, done that (quite famously I might add)....[/QUOTE]
That was quite the video. :eek:
that famous example should also underscore the point that even with large runoff areas you stand a very good chance of rolling your car. Get it sliding sideways in the dirt with the wheelss digging in ...
of course you will always be able to sell it later:
[IMG]http://www.zipadeeday.com/images/article/148.jpg[/IMG]
That was quite the video. :eek:
that famous example should also underscore the point that even with large runoff areas you stand a very good chance of rolling your car. Get it sliding sideways in the dirt with the wheelss digging in ...
of course you will always be able to sell it later:
[IMG]http://www.zipadeeday.com/images/article/148.jpg[/IMG]
| makofoto | 11-14-2005 08:17 PM |
See this thread for another bad first outing on Sunday 11/13/05:
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11673692#post11673692[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11673692#post11673692[/url]
| CirrusWRX | 11-15-2005 09:45 AM |
I wish there was a better database of HPDE incidents out there because a lot of it is just hearsay. Sometimes people want to talk about it, other times, people attempt to shove it under the rug, but to keep a detailed log of incidents, it would help the entire group, perhaps able to draw some conclusions (e.g. most crashes tend to happen in high horsepower cars, or most incidents take place within the first lap or the last lap, or the guy with short hair and new tires will inevitably spin into a wall, etc...)
The fact that these seem to be getting more and more popular, and the cars are more and more capable than the average driver than they were 10 years ago I think we're going to see more and more incidents in the future.
.02
The fact that these seem to be getting more and more popular, and the cars are more and more capable than the average driver than they were 10 years ago I think we're going to see more and more incidents in the future.
.02
| euro | 11-15-2005 09:56 AM |
No Disrespect but, I disagree.
Sweep it under the rug. No since glorifying the photos for the people gawking. If a TV show like 20-20 or 48 Hours or something gets wind of how many inexperienced people are out there spinning off the track and crashing $30K+ cars our sport (HPDE) will disappear due to outrageous insurance premiums on track owners and promoters. The only way to be on the track will be to have a purpose built car with cage/hans/belts/fire systems etc...
The only way to help the carnage to slow down is to spend the effort to get better instructors. That vette for example could have benefitted from an instructor who didnt let his student roll out 10/10ths on his second ever lap on the track. Ease in to your rythym and pace slowly, even if you have 500HP on tap doesnt mean you should foot to the floor coming off the first turn on green. You will shorten your time to get into your rythym with practice and experience. Common sense people. If you dont have the patience and the self control to drive at your limit (not the cars) stay off the track.
My .05
/Greg
P.S. I understand accidents happen. Experienced Drivers and Instructors crash too, parts break and ***** happens. Be Safe :)
Sweep it under the rug. No since glorifying the photos for the people gawking. If a TV show like 20-20 or 48 Hours or something gets wind of how many inexperienced people are out there spinning off the track and crashing $30K+ cars our sport (HPDE) will disappear due to outrageous insurance premiums on track owners and promoters. The only way to be on the track will be to have a purpose built car with cage/hans/belts/fire systems etc...
The only way to help the carnage to slow down is to spend the effort to get better instructors. That vette for example could have benefitted from an instructor who didnt let his student roll out 10/10ths on his second ever lap on the track. Ease in to your rythym and pace slowly, even if you have 500HP on tap doesnt mean you should foot to the floor coming off the first turn on green. You will shorten your time to get into your rythym with practice and experience. Common sense people. If you dont have the patience and the self control to drive at your limit (not the cars) stay off the track.
My .05
/Greg
P.S. I understand accidents happen. Experienced Drivers and Instructors crash too, parts break and ***** happens. Be Safe :)
| CirrusWRX | 11-15-2005 12:51 PM |
[img]http://vidangesdudiable.blogspirit.com/images/medium_head-in-sand.jpg[/img]
| IS300 | 11-15-2005 05:10 PM |
Car lapping days/ driving schools are extremely safe and accident free compared to motorcycle lapping days/ rider schools. Every one of the 24 motorcycle lapping days I attended this year had the ambulance dispatched no less than 5 times a day, some days as many as 10 times. Except when I attended the pro riding school, hardly anyone went down.
Out of an average of 60 riders a day, at least 7 will crash.
Sure accidents happen with auto lapping days/ drivers schools, but with good judgement and ego in check your risks are minimal.
Try a few pro driving schools learning the right skills and techniques will definitely help minimize the risks to yourself and your car.
Out of an average of 60 riders a day, at least 7 will crash.
Sure accidents happen with auto lapping days/ drivers schools, but with good judgement and ego in check your risks are minimal.
Try a few pro driving schools learning the right skills and techniques will definitely help minimize the risks to yourself and your car.
| Evil STI | 11-15-2005 05:30 PM |
Hey, that really sucks.
But consider this- it may now be the right time to paint that car [COLOR=Yellow]Dakar Yellow [/COLOR] or [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]Estoril Blue [/COLOR] :disco:
But consider this- it may now be the right time to paint that car [COLOR=Yellow]Dakar Yellow [/COLOR] or [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]Estoril Blue [/COLOR] :disco:
| ralliharri | 11-15-2005 09:39 PM |
Of the crashes that happen, how many are single car vs. 2 cars involved?
| adhowe70 | 11-15-2005 10:11 PM |
They better all be single car accidents. If 2 cars are involved, someone has some serious explaining to do. Its high performance driving not racing.
| silver arrow | 11-15-2005 10:49 PM |
Check with your insurance HPDE's are considered drivers education, because they don't time or score, not racing. It may be covered by his policy.
| adhowe70 | 11-15-2005 11:46 PM |
But expect your rates to go up if you do make a claim. I know people that have had claims for closed course incidents paid... and their rates went through the roof!
| wrrrx | 11-16-2005 12:05 AM |
[QUOTE=silver arrow]Check with your insurance HPDE's are considered drivers education, because they don't time or score, not racing. It may be covered by his policy.[/QUOTE]
Just make sure to read your policy [B]very[/B] carefully!
Or- call up anonymously and ask (at least on person on this board has been dropped by a *very* reputable insurer merely for asking about coverage at the track! :eek: )
As more and more insurance companies "wise up" to what fun we have at HPDE's, they will become increasingly difficult to insure. Sad, but true.
Russ R
PS- hi Andy! :)
Just make sure to read your policy [B]very[/B] carefully!
Or- call up anonymously and ask (at least on person on this board has been dropped by a *very* reputable insurer merely for asking about coverage at the track! :eek: )
As more and more insurance companies "wise up" to what fun we have at HPDE's, they will become increasingly difficult to insure. Sad, but true.
Russ R
PS- hi Andy! :)
| CirrusWRX | 11-16-2005 09:14 AM |
^I was told my policy would not be renewed after ASKING about HPDE coverage because I was dumb enough to give them my name.
Here I thought honesty would be the best policy, but even ASKING about it was enough to scare them off, even though there was NOTHING in the policy that would negate me the ability to file a claim, I'm sure they'd pay it, raise rates, and/or not renew policy for "high-risk" driver.
Here I thought honesty would be the best policy, but even ASKING about it was enough to scare them off, even though there was NOTHING in the policy that would negate me the ability to file a claim, I'm sure they'd pay it, raise rates, and/or not renew policy for "high-risk" driver.
| Silverrex04 | 11-16-2005 09:16 AM |
It alway sucks to see someone damage a car no matter how it happened. I am glad no one was hurt.
A very wise person once said, "If you can't afford to walk away from it, don't put it on track". Yes I know we can't all afford a dedicated track car AND a street car. My first track car was my street car. I did drive it at 10/10ths but not in situations that could cost me the car or someone elses car (eg. rain, cold tires/cold track, unfamiliar track...). I have a 04 WRX that I would love to put on track but won't because I have a 90' civic hatch for a track car. If the civic gets damaged, and at some point it will, I will not feel anywhere near as bad as if my Suby was hurt.
A very wise person once said, "If you can't afford to walk away from it, don't put it on track". Yes I know we can't all afford a dedicated track car AND a street car. My first track car was my street car. I did drive it at 10/10ths but not in situations that could cost me the car or someone elses car (eg. rain, cold tires/cold track, unfamiliar track...). I have a 04 WRX that I would love to put on track but won't because I have a 90' civic hatch for a track car. If the civic gets damaged, and at some point it will, I will not feel anywhere near as bad as if my Suby was hurt.
| turboICE | 11-16-2005 09:17 AM |
This was the worst HPDE year than many can remember and still less than 10 serious incidents for the year, based on public postings of them. This despite the huge jump in HPDE style participation nationwide.
I can't think of any HPDE style incidents that involved more than one car. W2W is not supposed to be happening. Though I do recall one CA incident last year where someone was "playing" with his friend in an advanced group - but even then only the on car got damaged.
The black flag all was warranted given where EV had to be. And considering there were two offs before the completion of the second lap. It was getting colder and colder as the day progressed and in that last session a couple went out hotter than they should have not giving their tires time to get any heat.
Where the car hit was unusual IMO. Did the car get loose and then you tried to save it? From that location if you accept that you went too far and let it go the car would normally go into the inside of the left hander with no worse for wear than grass and mud. I didn't see this develop but where you ended up I had the feeling it got loose and then over corrected to end up over there. Most tracks have plenty of area if you let it go when it starts going - there is no guarantee that there will be room if you try to save it because you will end up someplace you shouldn't. So many incidents involve trying to save it - don't know if that was the case here but I suspect it was based on the final location.
It takes years on track to be able to drive consistently at 10/10ths - the senses to drive there consistently take years of experience to develop. Any talk of most anyone at an HPDE driving consistently at any given level is bunk. Most are fluctuated anywhere from 2-3/10ths worth at any given time - so if someone is even trying to drive at 8/10ths it is unlikely that they know for sure they are there and it is easy to end up over if you are trying to push towards 10/10ths. Shoot for 8/10ths or less, become consistent there for a long time then start bringing it up slowly and become consistent at the next level. No point in trying to ever go more than 9/10ths in any noncompetitive situation as at 9/10ths you still will end up with plenty of opportunities to end up over. It is a lot better to let it go because you went 11/10ths than 13/10ths.
I would find it unusual for any insurance company to respond anyway except negatively to track days - the activity is not part of the risk profile considered in the insurable risk of the insured pool. And I have to say I agree with them - I don't think it is appropriate for track day risks to be pooled with the soccer mom driving here mini-van around town and daily commuters. Get track day insurance if you want your car insured during these events. Here you go: [url]http://www.americancollectorsins.com/dequote.php[/url]
Ed.
I can't think of any HPDE style incidents that involved more than one car. W2W is not supposed to be happening. Though I do recall one CA incident last year where someone was "playing" with his friend in an advanced group - but even then only the on car got damaged.
The black flag all was warranted given where EV had to be. And considering there were two offs before the completion of the second lap. It was getting colder and colder as the day progressed and in that last session a couple went out hotter than they should have not giving their tires time to get any heat.
Where the car hit was unusual IMO. Did the car get loose and then you tried to save it? From that location if you accept that you went too far and let it go the car would normally go into the inside of the left hander with no worse for wear than grass and mud. I didn't see this develop but where you ended up I had the feeling it got loose and then over corrected to end up over there. Most tracks have plenty of area if you let it go when it starts going - there is no guarantee that there will be room if you try to save it because you will end up someplace you shouldn't. So many incidents involve trying to save it - don't know if that was the case here but I suspect it was based on the final location.
It takes years on track to be able to drive consistently at 10/10ths - the senses to drive there consistently take years of experience to develop. Any talk of most anyone at an HPDE driving consistently at any given level is bunk. Most are fluctuated anywhere from 2-3/10ths worth at any given time - so if someone is even trying to drive at 8/10ths it is unlikely that they know for sure they are there and it is easy to end up over if you are trying to push towards 10/10ths. Shoot for 8/10ths or less, become consistent there for a long time then start bringing it up slowly and become consistent at the next level. No point in trying to ever go more than 9/10ths in any noncompetitive situation as at 9/10ths you still will end up with plenty of opportunities to end up over. It is a lot better to let it go because you went 11/10ths than 13/10ths.
I would find it unusual for any insurance company to respond anyway except negatively to track days - the activity is not part of the risk profile considered in the insurable risk of the insured pool. And I have to say I agree with them - I don't think it is appropriate for track day risks to be pooled with the soccer mom driving here mini-van around town and daily commuters. Get track day insurance if you want your car insured during these events. Here you go: [url]http://www.americancollectorsins.com/dequote.php[/url]
Ed.
| CirrusWRX | 11-16-2005 10:59 AM |
^I'll be getting a policy with them the second I have 10 years driving experience, which, unfortunately, is not for another year.
| turboICE | 11-16-2005 11:29 AM |
You don't go on track anyway! LOL
| kfoote | 11-16-2005 11:48 AM |
RE: Tracks.
If you are running a daily driver (or someone else's daily driver, for that matter), I will not push the car 100% unless the consequences of screwing up are minimal. At NHIS, in a high powered car, I'll chicken out a bit going up turn 8 into 9, but have no problem pushing the car 100% in turn 11, or turn 1 using the South Chicaine. The only place at Lime Rock that I will really push the car is in the esses. Everywhere else, even though it looks like there's runoff, there isn't.
RE: car to car contact
With the club I primarily run with, there are 4 car-car incindents that I am aware of in the last 10 years. One was a light tap in a braking zone where the first car braked early, resulting in a spin, one was a very light door-door contact of 2 SCCA ITC guys leaning on each other that knew each other very well, and they were reprimanded for it, One was a brother and sister who took two different lines into a corner, resulting in spins for both, and one was a Honda S2000 trying to brake as late as a Formula Continental, which resulted in a scuff to the front bumper of the S2000. Every major accident I have seen in DE events has been a single car accident.
HPDE's are fun, and there is risk involved, but as long as you are smart about it, the risk is not significantly more than driving to or from the track.
If you are running a daily driver (or someone else's daily driver, for that matter), I will not push the car 100% unless the consequences of screwing up are minimal. At NHIS, in a high powered car, I'll chicken out a bit going up turn 8 into 9, but have no problem pushing the car 100% in turn 11, or turn 1 using the South Chicaine. The only place at Lime Rock that I will really push the car is in the esses. Everywhere else, even though it looks like there's runoff, there isn't.
RE: car to car contact
With the club I primarily run with, there are 4 car-car incindents that I am aware of in the last 10 years. One was a light tap in a braking zone where the first car braked early, resulting in a spin, one was a very light door-door contact of 2 SCCA ITC guys leaning on each other that knew each other very well, and they were reprimanded for it, One was a brother and sister who took two different lines into a corner, resulting in spins for both, and one was a Honda S2000 trying to brake as late as a Formula Continental, which resulted in a scuff to the front bumper of the S2000. Every major accident I have seen in DE events has been a single car accident.
HPDE's are fun, and there is risk involved, but as long as you are smart about it, the risk is not significantly more than driving to or from the track.
| ITWRX4ME | 11-16-2005 12:59 PM |
[QUOTE=nate49509]The same thing can be said for driving on the street. Sooner or later your going to get into an accident.
HPDE are not races. Your not supposed to drive the track at ten tenths.[/QUOTE]
Agree. Agree. Don't agree.
HPDE is a place to learn to drive 10/10ths. You just have be gradual, use your head and respect your instructors.
HPDE are not races. Your not supposed to drive the track at ten tenths.[/QUOTE]
Agree. Agree. Don't agree.
HPDE is a place to learn to drive 10/10ths. You just have be gradual, use your head and respect your instructors.
| leecea | 11-16-2005 01:06 PM |
[QUOTE]HPDE's are fun, and there is risk involved, but as long as you are smart about it, the risk is not significantly more than driving to or from the track.[/QUOTE]
Even if the chance of messing up on track and road are the same, there is still the issue of an insured versus un-insured loss, so IMHO the risk is different. Risk = [I]f[/I](probability, consequence).
Even if the chance of messing up on track and road are the same, there is still the issue of an insured versus un-insured loss, so IMHO the risk is different. Risk = [I]f[/I](probability, consequence).
| GarySheehan | 11-16-2005 01:18 PM |
[QUOTE=kfoote]HPDE's are fun, and there is risk involved, but as long as you are smart about it, the risk is not significantly more than driving to or from the track.[/QUOTE]
No offense to you, kfoote, because a lot of people say that, but I always get a kick out of this line of thought. How is it possible that driving your car at the limit on the track is [U]safer[/U] than driving your car WELL below any limit on the street?
There's definitely more chance of low-speed minor fender benders on the street, but at the speeds in HPDE's, the risks are much higher.
How many times have you flown off the street into the grass because of a driving mistake you made that you couldn't recover from?
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
No offense to you, kfoote, because a lot of people say that, but I always get a kick out of this line of thought. How is it possible that driving your car at the limit on the track is [U]safer[/U] than driving your car WELL below any limit on the street?
There's definitely more chance of low-speed minor fender benders on the street, but at the speeds in HPDE's, the risks are much higher.
How many times have you flown off the street into the grass because of a driving mistake you made that you couldn't recover from?
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| kfoote | 11-16-2005 01:33 PM |
First off, yes, the risks are different, and the financial ramifications of an on-track incident are higher than on the street.
The types of incidents on and off track are different as well. Though the chances of a high speed trip through the grass are greater in a HPDE, the chances of a head on collision with a drunk driver that's chatting on a cell phone driving a vehicle that weighs twice what yours does are a lot less.
At an HPDE, because the vast majority of accidents are a result of single car incidents, there is usually only one person who is at fault. Driving on the street, there are a lot more multi car incidents because of one person not paying attention and having someone else have to deal with the ramifications of their actions.
The types of incidents on and off track are different as well. Though the chances of a high speed trip through the grass are greater in a HPDE, the chances of a head on collision with a drunk driver that's chatting on a cell phone driving a vehicle that weighs twice what yours does are a lot less.
At an HPDE, because the vast majority of accidents are a result of single car incidents, there is usually only one person who is at fault. Driving on the street, there are a lot more multi car incidents because of one person not paying attention and having someone else have to deal with the ramifications of their actions.
| GarySheehan | 11-16-2005 01:39 PM |
Kfoote,
Good points.
My point is this: How many times have you been hit head-on by a drunk driver vs. how many times have you gone off track at an HPDE for any reason?
Also, there are a HUGE number of car accidents on the street because the streets are full of drivers and most of them are idiots. How many have you personally been involved in? That's not an accusation, just a question.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
Good points.
My point is this: How many times have you been hit head-on by a drunk driver vs. how many times have you gone off track at an HPDE for any reason?
Also, there are a HUGE number of car accidents on the street because the streets are full of drivers and most of them are idiots. How many have you personally been involved in? That's not an accusation, just a question.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| turboICE | 11-16-2005 01:55 PM |
I agree with Gary the risks on track vs responsible street driving are substantially greater, primarily becuase of the consequences rather than probabilities.
The proper "track days are safer" party line is that it is safer on the track to explore your car's capabilities than on the street (i.e. street racing, back road drives, hill runs, "spirited" driving). On track you are given margins to experience your car closer to the limits because of the controls not present on the street: everyone going the same direction (usually), everyone doing approximately the same thing (usually), everyone paying significantly more attention to their surroundings (usually), and most importantly the communication from corner workers about the environment around you including the condition of your own car.
So it is safer and less risky to driver your car closer to its limits on the track than on the street - but there is not less risk than driving on the street generally.
Ed.
The proper "track days are safer" party line is that it is safer on the track to explore your car's capabilities than on the street (i.e. street racing, back road drives, hill runs, "spirited" driving). On track you are given margins to experience your car closer to the limits because of the controls not present on the street: everyone going the same direction (usually), everyone doing approximately the same thing (usually), everyone paying significantly more attention to their surroundings (usually), and most importantly the communication from corner workers about the environment around you including the condition of your own car.
So it is safer and less risky to driver your car closer to its limits on the track than on the street - but there is not less risk than driving on the street generally.
Ed.
| gills | 11-16-2005 03:58 PM |
[QUOTE=turboICE]
Where the car hit was unusual IMO. Did the car get loose and then you tried to save it? From that location if you accept that you went too far and let it go the car would normally go into the inside of the left hander with no worse for wear than grass and mud. I didn't see this develop but where you ended up I had the feeling it got loose and then over corrected to end up over there. Most tracks have plenty of area if you let it go when it starts going - there is no guarantee that there will be room if you try to save it because you will end up someplace you shouldn't. So many incidents involve trying to save it - don't know if that was the case here but I suspect it was based on the final location.
Ed.[/QUOTE]
Ed are you asking about my bro and his M3ti?
Where the car hit was unusual IMO. Did the car get loose and then you tried to save it? From that location if you accept that you went too far and let it go the car would normally go into the inside of the left hander with no worse for wear than grass and mud. I didn't see this develop but where you ended up I had the feeling it got loose and then over corrected to end up over there. Most tracks have plenty of area if you let it go when it starts going - there is no guarantee that there will be room if you try to save it because you will end up someplace you shouldn't. So many incidents involve trying to save it - don't know if that was the case here but I suspect it was based on the final location.
Ed.[/QUOTE]
Ed are you asking about my bro and his M3ti?
| turboICE | 11-16-2005 05:23 PM |
Yeah my post was not properly directed - just curious as to how everything developed after the apex of big bend, beyond the temperature of the track dropping all day long. Replace all "you" with "your bro"...
Ed.
Ed.
| kfoote | 11-16-2005 06:03 PM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]Kfoote,
Good points.
My point is this: How many times have you been hit head-on by a drunk driver vs. how many times have you gone off track at an HPDE for any reason?
Also, there are a HUGE number of car accidents on the street because the streets are full of drivers and most of them are idiots. How many have you personally been involved in? That's not an accusation, just a question.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
I have been off road at HPDE's more than on the street.
I have been in more accidents involving body damage on the street than in SCCA races (25 or so SCCA Races + 100+ DE/Time Trial days)
Track accident (only 1 so far): Spec Miata, side by side going through the uphill esses at VIR. I was on the right, car on my left went off track on the inside of one of the left hand corners, came back on track and hit me in the driver's door. Cost me a large door ding and about 3/4 sec. His RF suspension broke, and he was out of the race.
Street accident #1: going around corner at 5 MPH under the speed limit while in driver's permit status. Stopped for cat and family of kittens crossing the road. Got rear-ended. 1k worth of damage to car I was driving, 3k to car behind me.
Street accident #2: Rain, car 2 cars ahead of me stopped abruptly to make a left turn with no directionals. braked on my car locked up, and I hit the car in front of me. $30 for a new license plate bracket for me, no damage to other car.
Street accident #3 making a left turn, saw car stopped at stop sign making a left turn. No stop sign for me. 1/2 way through the intersection, they decided the road was clear. hit me 3" behind driver's door, car totaled.
Street accident #4: Rain on track tires driving dad's car home from HPDE event. 60 MPH in a 65 zone. Car made a move on me mid corner, got it straightened out just before I saw the dead deer in my lane. Tried to toss the car into the left lane. Car went left, but not right. Trip through the median strip and through a tree. $6k worth of front end damage to the car. Felt much better when cab driver nearly put the car into the median strip avoiding the same deer carcass.
Street "accident" #5: Parked waiting to pick up rig for race team. Motorhome backed into me while I was parked after they drove by me 30 seconds earlier. $800 for a new rear bumper cover.
Maybe I'm just accident prone or an anomoly, but I don't really think either of those are the case.
Good points.
My point is this: How many times have you been hit head-on by a drunk driver vs. how many times have you gone off track at an HPDE for any reason?
Also, there are a HUGE number of car accidents on the street because the streets are full of drivers and most of them are idiots. How many have you personally been involved in? That's not an accusation, just a question.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
I have been off road at HPDE's more than on the street.
I have been in more accidents involving body damage on the street than in SCCA races (25 or so SCCA Races + 100+ DE/Time Trial days)
Track accident (only 1 so far): Spec Miata, side by side going through the uphill esses at VIR. I was on the right, car on my left went off track on the inside of one of the left hand corners, came back on track and hit me in the driver's door. Cost me a large door ding and about 3/4 sec. His RF suspension broke, and he was out of the race.
Street accident #1: going around corner at 5 MPH under the speed limit while in driver's permit status. Stopped for cat and family of kittens crossing the road. Got rear-ended. 1k worth of damage to car I was driving, 3k to car behind me.
Street accident #2: Rain, car 2 cars ahead of me stopped abruptly to make a left turn with no directionals. braked on my car locked up, and I hit the car in front of me. $30 for a new license plate bracket for me, no damage to other car.
Street accident #3 making a left turn, saw car stopped at stop sign making a left turn. No stop sign for me. 1/2 way through the intersection, they decided the road was clear. hit me 3" behind driver's door, car totaled.
Street accident #4: Rain on track tires driving dad's car home from HPDE event. 60 MPH in a 65 zone. Car made a move on me mid corner, got it straightened out just before I saw the dead deer in my lane. Tried to toss the car into the left lane. Car went left, but not right. Trip through the median strip and through a tree. $6k worth of front end damage to the car. Felt much better when cab driver nearly put the car into the median strip avoiding the same deer carcass.
Street "accident" #5: Parked waiting to pick up rig for race team. Motorhome backed into me while I was parked after they drove by me 30 seconds earlier. $800 for a new rear bumper cover.
Maybe I'm just accident prone or an anomoly, but I don't really think either of those are the case.
| GarySheehan | 11-16-2005 06:30 PM |
Wow, you ARE accident prone. :)
I don't really count dollar amounts. The only one that sounds really serious is when you put the car through a tree. However, probably due to the track tires in the rain, which is your responsibility.
Most of those were relatively low speed impacts, which are for sure safer than the speeds you are traveling on the track. Wait until you take a really good hit on the track, then give us your opinion. ;)
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
I don't really count dollar amounts. The only one that sounds really serious is when you put the car through a tree. However, probably due to the track tires in the rain, which is your responsibility.
Most of those were relatively low speed impacts, which are for sure safer than the speeds you are traveling on the track. Wait until you take a really good hit on the track, then give us your opinion. ;)
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| Silverrex04 | 11-17-2005 07:50 AM |
I am far more comfortable at 100+ mph with other cars just feet away from me on track than I am on the highway at 65 with some giant SUV trying to merge into traffic beside me. I trust the other drivers around me on track to be aware of their surroundings unlike the general public.
Accidents happen at HPDEs. I have seen some very ugly incidents over the years but very few multi car ones. Of the accidents I have seen MOST were only damaged sheetmetal and pride. This is the risk you take putting your car on track. The percentage of cars that get damaged at a school is still relatively small.
HPDEs are one of the best ways to "safely" explore the limits of your car and abilities in a controlled environment. You will learn car controll skills that will help to make you a better and safer driver on the street.
Accidents happen at HPDEs. I have seen some very ugly incidents over the years but very few multi car ones. Of the accidents I have seen MOST were only damaged sheetmetal and pride. This is the risk you take putting your car on track. The percentage of cars that get damaged at a school is still relatively small.
HPDEs are one of the best ways to "safely" explore the limits of your car and abilities in a controlled environment. You will learn car controll skills that will help to make you a better and safer driver on the street.
| turboICE | 11-17-2005 09:47 AM |
[QUOTE=Silverrex04]The percentage of cars that get damaged at a school is still relatively small.[/QUOTE][i]Extraordinarily[/i] small, but each time it is a shame to see. Ideally it wouldn't happen at all, but the only way to make it not possible to happen would eliminate any possibility of making the event at all educational.
First I was glad the driver was in good shape, second I was and still am immensely pleased with the extremely positive attitude and outlook illustrated at the time of the incident and since.
First I was glad the driver was in good shape, second I was and still am immensely pleased with the extremely positive attitude and outlook illustrated at the time of the incident and since.
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