| 10th Warrior | 11-21-2006 02:53 PM |
If you don't like BSP's index, blame John Tak, not Rick Ruth :p Just be thankful we didn't end up with a higher index than ASP and SM ;)
| trhoppe | 11-21-2006 02:59 PM |
and John Tak's evo ain't even close to done :lol:
-Tom
-Tom
| Mhyrr | 11-21-2006 03:31 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South;16069960]So what are you trying to say...:lol: :lol:[/QUOTE]
I would "gently" suggest that the top 3 drivers in ASP this past year are better drivers than the top 3 in BSP and they were _still_ even in time.
Evos are easy to drive fast. I've ridden with Jr. in his Z06. That sucker is a serious handful. I consider myself a decent driver, I wouldn't even consider trying to tackle that thing yet.
I would "gently" suggest that the top 3 drivers in ASP this past year are better drivers than the top 3 in BSP and they were _still_ even in time.
Evos are easy to drive fast. I've ridden with Jr. in his Z06. That sucker is a serious handful. I consider myself a decent driver, I wouldn't even consider trying to tackle that thing yet.
| Chiketkd | 11-21-2006 03:49 PM |
[QUOTE=Mhyrr;16070626]I would "gently" suggest that the top 3 drivers in ASP this past year are better drivers than the top 3 in BSP and they were _still_ even in time.
Evos are easy to drive fast. I've ridden with Jr. in his Z06. That sucker is a serious handful. I consider myself a decent driver, I wouldn't even consider trying to tackle that thing yet.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Rod McGeorge finished 4th in ASP this year and he's a serious driver. I went for a ride with him in his C6 Z06 at his last event before packing up for Natl's. You're right - it takes some [i]serious[/i] skill to pilot one of those ASP cars quickly - you literally have to drive those cars on the edge of spinning out!!! :eek:
These are some pics of my ride in McGeorge's car courtesy of TeamWTF:
[img]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d14/Chiketkd/2006%20Subaru%20WRX%20TR/AutoX%20pics/WDCR%209-3-06/RodMcGeorgeASPZ061.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d14/Chiketkd/2006%20Subaru%20WRX%20TR/AutoX%20pics/WDCR%209-3-06/RodMcGeorgeASPZ063.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d14/Chiketkd/2006%20Subaru%20WRX%20TR/AutoX%20pics/WDCR%209-3-06/RodMcGeorgeASPZ064.jpg[/img]
Evos are easy to drive fast. I've ridden with Jr. in his Z06. That sucker is a serious handful. I consider myself a decent driver, I wouldn't even consider trying to tackle that thing yet.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Rod McGeorge finished 4th in ASP this year and he's a serious driver. I went for a ride with him in his C6 Z06 at his last event before packing up for Natl's. You're right - it takes some [i]serious[/i] skill to pilot one of those ASP cars quickly - you literally have to drive those cars on the edge of spinning out!!! :eek:
These are some pics of my ride in McGeorge's car courtesy of TeamWTF:
[img]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d14/Chiketkd/2006%20Subaru%20WRX%20TR/AutoX%20pics/WDCR%209-3-06/RodMcGeorgeASPZ061.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d14/Chiketkd/2006%20Subaru%20WRX%20TR/AutoX%20pics/WDCR%209-3-06/RodMcGeorgeASPZ063.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d14/Chiketkd/2006%20Subaru%20WRX%20TR/AutoX%20pics/WDCR%209-3-06/RodMcGeorgeASPZ064.jpg[/img]
| TheWRX | 11-22-2006 08:56 AM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe;16070136]and John Tak's evo ain't even close to done :lol:[/QUOTE]
It had a For Sale sign last time I saw it. So unless it doesn't sell, they're done with it.
It had a For Sale sign last time I saw it. So unless it doesn't sell, they're done with it.
| motoring | 11-22-2006 11:10 AM |
They get a new car each year... Pretty sweet deal. I guess if it's your dealership you can do stuff like that.
| PhilC | 11-22-2006 12:53 PM |
It certainly helps when you own your own dealership. :)
| crystalhelix | 11-22-2006 01:10 PM |
My dealership has an STi and a Ford Ranger...lol
| RainMaker | 11-22-2006 07:33 PM |
Lovely. Tunnell and Sias do their shop thing and all the rest of us in SM get to learn how to drive to compete. I thought there was a gentleman's agreement that SM was for those of us that can't drive... ;)
| sciolist | 11-22-2006 07:47 PM |
[QUOTE=RainMaker;16086023] I thought there was a gentleman's agreement that SM was for those of us that can't drive... ;)[/QUOTE]
Good Lord, someone needs to get out more.
Good Lord, someone needs to get out more.
| qcslvr30 | 11-22-2006 07:57 PM |
Rainmaker and scoilist- Quit whining!:p
You guys can always demod and run STU with us next year.:D
James
You guys can always demod and run STU with us next year.:D
James
| sciolist | 11-22-2006 08:10 PM |
Actually I'm afraid it's too late for that now, judging by the pile of parts in the living room. I'm just going to have to tan your hide the hard way. :D
| qcslvr30 | 11-22-2006 09:58 PM |
Looking forward to it.
| RainMaker | 11-23-2006 11:45 AM |
Buying lots of parts is just the beginning...
Taking lots of expensive parts OFF and replacing them with a second round of expensive parts is when you really start to wonder if its worth it :)
SM Racer != Financial Planner
Taking lots of expensive parts OFF and replacing them with a second round of expensive parts is when you really start to wonder if its worth it :)
SM Racer != Financial Planner
| RainMaker | 11-23-2006 11:46 AM |
[QUOTE=sciolist;16086135]Good Lord, someone needs to get out more.[/QUOTE]
Come race me! :) You are close enough ;)
Come race me! :) You are close enough ;)
| adhowe70 | 11-23-2006 01:10 PM |
[QUOTE=RainMaker;16086023]Lovely. Tunnell and Sias do their shop thing and all the rest of us in SM get to learn how to drive to compete. I thought there was a gentleman's agreement that SM was for those of us that can't drive... ;)[/QUOTE]
Interesting attitude... You know I was thinking I would run in SM instead of PAX in '07. What do you think? ;) SM is a state of mind - not closely related to sanity.
PAX indices are about the fastes [B]car and driver combination[/B] in the country. In SM, you need to have the best engineer and the best driver to win. The engineer becomes more important as you move from Stock > ST > SP > SM > P > M. Those that want to empasize driver skill should stay in stock. Those that want to flex their engineering muscle (and stretch their budget) tend to move up the class scale. I'm not saying that SM is better than SP, just that it takes more to win.
Different skills are important... in Stock, its probably 85% driver, 15% car. In SM, its probably 60% driver, 40% car. As long as you don't run into the guy with the full 40% car, you do OK. :lol: But if you run in a PAX indexed class, you always race the guy with the full 40% car. :(
Andy
Interesting attitude... You know I was thinking I would run in SM instead of PAX in '07. What do you think? ;) SM is a state of mind - not closely related to sanity.
PAX indices are about the fastes [B]car and driver combination[/B] in the country. In SM, you need to have the best engineer and the best driver to win. The engineer becomes more important as you move from Stock > ST > SP > SM > P > M. Those that want to empasize driver skill should stay in stock. Those that want to flex their engineering muscle (and stretch their budget) tend to move up the class scale. I'm not saying that SM is better than SP, just that it takes more to win.
Different skills are important... in Stock, its probably 85% driver, 15% car. In SM, its probably 60% driver, 40% car. As long as you don't run into the guy with the full 40% car, you do OK. :lol: But if you run in a PAX indexed class, you always race the guy with the full 40% car. :(
Andy
| Pacobeagle | 11-23-2006 01:47 PM |
[QUOTE=adhowe70;16090646]Interesting attitude... You know I was thinking I would run in SM instead of PAX in '07. What do you think? ;) SM is a state of mind - not closely related to sanity.
PAX indices are about the fastes [B]car and driver combination[/B] in the country. In SM, you need to have the best engineer and the best driver to win. The engineer becomes more important as you move from Stock > ST > SP > SM > P > M. Those that want to empasize driver skill should stay in stock. Those that want to flex their engineering muscle (and stretch their budget) tend to move up the class scale. I'm not saying that SM is better than SP, just that it takes more to win.
Different skills are important... in Stock, its probably 85% driver, 15% car. In SM, its probably 60% driver, 40% car. As long as you don't run into the guy with the full 40% car, you do OK. :lol: But if you run in a PAX indexed class, you always race the guy with the full 40% car. :(
Andy[/QUOTE]
Nicely put, there's a different light on the subject. I like SM because there are more variables added that make it more exciting!
Jose
-Hopefully, not the only Subaru in SM this year at Nationals!!!-
PAX indices are about the fastes [B]car and driver combination[/B] in the country. In SM, you need to have the best engineer and the best driver to win. The engineer becomes more important as you move from Stock > ST > SP > SM > P > M. Those that want to empasize driver skill should stay in stock. Those that want to flex their engineering muscle (and stretch their budget) tend to move up the class scale. I'm not saying that SM is better than SP, just that it takes more to win.
Different skills are important... in Stock, its probably 85% driver, 15% car. In SM, its probably 60% driver, 40% car. As long as you don't run into the guy with the full 40% car, you do OK. :lol: But if you run in a PAX indexed class, you always race the guy with the full 40% car. :(
Andy[/QUOTE]
Nicely put, there's a different light on the subject. I like SM because there are more variables added that make it more exciting!
Jose
-Hopefully, not the only Subaru in SM this year at Nationals!!!-
| adhowe70 | 11-23-2006 02:35 PM |
[QUOTE=Pacobeagle1;16090996]Nicely put, there's a different light on the subject. I like SM because there are more variables added that make it more exciting!
Jose
-Hopefully, not the only Subaru in SM this year at Nationals!!!-[/QUOTE]
Thanks. I know a lot of people just don't get what PAX values are supposed to be. Its sort of like the Best in Show part of a dog show... you are not comparing apples to apples. You are comparing youself to the best in the country in [B]your class[/B]. He or she that comes the closest will win (if Rick Ruth crunched the numbers correctly.)
You won't be the only Subaru in SM at Nats next year. I believe that my car will be there as Paul Eklund (Primitive) has stated that he wants to drive my car at Nationals in '07. I'm hoping to bring a 25% car and have Paul (a 55-60% driver) put it in the trophies. But I'm not betting on it. At least I'm not giving up any weight in '07... full tanks to be legal (at 2625 pounds.)
Jose
-Hopefully, not the only Subaru in SM this year at Nationals!!!-[/QUOTE]
Thanks. I know a lot of people just don't get what PAX values are supposed to be. Its sort of like the Best in Show part of a dog show... you are not comparing apples to apples. You are comparing youself to the best in the country in [B]your class[/B]. He or she that comes the closest will win (if Rick Ruth crunched the numbers correctly.)
You won't be the only Subaru in SM at Nats next year. I believe that my car will be there as Paul Eklund (Primitive) has stated that he wants to drive my car at Nationals in '07. I'm hoping to bring a 25% car and have Paul (a 55-60% driver) put it in the trophies. But I'm not betting on it. At least I'm not giving up any weight in '07... full tanks to be legal (at 2625 pounds.)
| sciolist | 11-23-2006 02:51 PM |
[QUOTE=adhowe70;16090646]Interesting attitude... You know I was thinking I would run in SM instead of PAX in '07. What do you think? ;) SM is a state of mind - not closely related to sanity.
PAX indices are about the fastes [B]car and driver combination[/B] in the country. In SM, you need to have the best engineer and the best driver to win. The engineer becomes more important as you move from Stock > ST > SP > SM > P > M. Those that want to empasize driver skill should stay in stock. Those that want to flex their engineering muscle (and stretch their budget) tend to move up the class scale. I'm not saying that SM is better than SP, just that it takes more to win.
Different skills are important... in Stock, its probably 85% driver, 15% car. In SM, its probably 60% driver, 40% car. As long as you don't run into the guy with the full 40% car, you do OK. :lol: But if you run in a PAX indexed class, you always race the guy with the full 40% car. :(
Andy[/QUOTE]
Another factor to consider, more on the subjective side, is the type of experience one is looking for. Obviously many of the folks in SM at the local level are there because they've made changes to their cars for reasons having little to do with national autoX competition.
Truly competitive SM cars find their way around the lot at a pretty good clip, and they have a way of losing parts in the process.
PAX indices are about the fastes [B]car and driver combination[/B] in the country. In SM, you need to have the best engineer and the best driver to win. The engineer becomes more important as you move from Stock > ST > SP > SM > P > M. Those that want to empasize driver skill should stay in stock. Those that want to flex their engineering muscle (and stretch their budget) tend to move up the class scale. I'm not saying that SM is better than SP, just that it takes more to win.
Different skills are important... in Stock, its probably 85% driver, 15% car. In SM, its probably 60% driver, 40% car. As long as you don't run into the guy with the full 40% car, you do OK. :lol: But if you run in a PAX indexed class, you always race the guy with the full 40% car. :(
Andy[/QUOTE]
Another factor to consider, more on the subjective side, is the type of experience one is looking for. Obviously many of the folks in SM at the local level are there because they've made changes to their cars for reasons having little to do with national autoX competition.
Truly competitive SM cars find their way around the lot at a pretty good clip, and they have a way of losing parts in the process.
| adhowe70 | 11-23-2006 03:07 PM |
The local folks that are out for fun shouldn't care about the PAX index for their class.
Stuff falling off of SM cars? I don't know what you're talking about. ;) Wait, you said comptitive SM cars. I guess that leaves mine out of the discussion. :D
Stuff falling off of SM cars? I don't know what you're talking about. ;) Wait, you said comptitive SM cars. I guess that leaves mine out of the discussion. :D
| RainMaker | 11-23-2006 03:41 PM |
[QUOTE=Pacobeagle1;16090996]Jose
-Hopefully, not the only Subaru in SM this year at Nationals!!!-[/QUOTE]
I know "November goals" are only slightly closer to reality than "October goals", which are about 1% reality... but...
I hope this year to come to Nationals.
(I dont expect to compete well... just try... and have an educational experience).
Chris
-Hopefully, not the only Subaru in SM this year at Nationals!!!-[/QUOTE]
I know "November goals" are only slightly closer to reality than "October goals", which are about 1% reality... but...
I hope this year to come to Nationals.
(I dont expect to compete well... just try... and have an educational experience).
Chris
| RainMaker | 11-23-2006 03:45 PM |
[QUOTE=sciolist;16091629]Truly competitive SM cars find their way around the lot at a pretty good clip, and they have a way of losing parts in the process.[/QUOTE]
If fender liners are parts, and losing them during the race equates to competitiveness, I'm TEH W1NNaR. :lol:
If fender liners are parts, and losing them during the race equates to competitiveness, I'm TEH W1NNaR. :lol:
| RainMaker | 11-23-2006 03:56 PM |
[QUOTE=adhowe70;16090646]Interesting attitude... You know I was thinking I would run in SM instead of PAX in '07. What do you think? ;) SM is a state of mind - not closely related to sanity.[/QUOTE]
Dan and I think you [B]should[/B] come play with us this next year. It will add some context when we win ;)
Dan and I think you [B]should[/B] come play with us this next year. It will add some context when we win ;)
| ratt_finkel | 11-23-2006 06:12 PM |
[QUOTE=AtomicRacer;16067058]GS
2006 0.794
2007 0.803
bump 0.009
Alright Foley, no more easy PAX wins for you! =P
-Paul[/QUOTE]
I know, I'm totally screwed. Maybe I should change classes. I mean, what idiot runs an RS in GS? :lol:
2006 0.794
2007 0.803
bump 0.009
Alright Foley, no more easy PAX wins for you! =P
-Paul[/QUOTE]
I know, I'm totally screwed. Maybe I should change classes. I mean, what idiot runs an RS in GS? :lol:
| Durmiente | 11-24-2006 02:14 AM |
well correct me if I am wrong but this seems like good news for STX people.
STX got a bump, but not much compared to a lot of (common) classes like HS, GS, STS, and SM.
My friend drives a Mini Cooper in HS and frequently PAXes in the top 10. Seems like the higher PAX there will make it harder for him to do so, and STX's relatively smaller PAX increase (compared to other classes) will only help us place better... Probably not by much but maybe 4-5 spots for a 80 driver event?
Seems exciting to me.... I'm pretty new to autox (12 or so events under my belt) but this next season looking forward to competing in STX locally... seems like that is THE class to be in for WRXes.
STX got a bump, but not much compared to a lot of (common) classes like HS, GS, STS, and SM.
My friend drives a Mini Cooper in HS and frequently PAXes in the top 10. Seems like the higher PAX there will make it harder for him to do so, and STX's relatively smaller PAX increase (compared to other classes) will only help us place better... Probably not by much but maybe 4-5 spots for a 80 driver event?
Seems exciting to me.... I'm pretty new to autox (12 or so events under my belt) but this next season looking forward to competing in STX locally... seems like that is THE class to be in for WRXes.
| 2superblus | 11-24-2006 11:35 AM |
Ok guys I went and re-calculated our Milwaukee Region SCCA event 8 the top 40 on Pax under the new PAX some classes moved up some stayed the same and some dropped like a rock.
Here is what I found on average.
STU moved up 6 places
STX moved up 2 places
STS stayed in the same spot or dropped 1-2 spots
SS stayed the same or up 1 spot
AS stayed the same
CS dropped 1-2 spots
FS stayed the same or dropped 1-2 spots
GS dropped 1-6 spots
HS dropped 1-6 spots
ASP moved up 1-2 spots
BSP dropped 3-6 spots
CSP moved up 1 spot
DSP moved up 1 spot
ESP stayed the same or dropped 1-2 spots
Anyhow it looks good for most of the Street Tire crowd.
Here is what I found on average.
STU moved up 6 places
STX moved up 2 places
STS stayed in the same spot or dropped 1-2 spots
SS stayed the same or up 1 spot
AS stayed the same
CS dropped 1-2 spots
FS stayed the same or dropped 1-2 spots
GS dropped 1-6 spots
HS dropped 1-6 spots
ASP moved up 1-2 spots
BSP dropped 3-6 spots
CSP moved up 1 spot
DSP moved up 1 spot
ESP stayed the same or dropped 1-2 spots
Anyhow it looks good for most of the Street Tire crowd.
| ratt_finkel | 11-25-2006 11:38 PM |
[QUOTE=2superblus;16097460]
GS dropped 1-6 spots
[/QUOTE]
Not good, I think I already dropped that for this year. SO next year I'm double fked.
GS dropped 1-6 spots
[/QUOTE]
Not good, I think I already dropped that for this year. SO next year I'm double fked.
| silver arrow | 11-26-2006 12:51 AM |
STU :banana: :banana: :banana:
| 2superblus | 11-27-2006 03:08 PM |
^exactly my thought
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