| Dan_E | 06-07-2001 09:32 AM |
Impreza rollover @ Lime Rock (video)
Poor Subie....This has probably been around before, but for those who missed it
[url="http://web.wtez.net/t/w/tw57472/videos/imprezarollover.mpg"]http://web.wtez.net/t/w/tw57472/videos/imprezarollover.mpg[/url]
[url="http://web.wtez.net/t/w/tw57472/videos/imprezarollover.mpg"]http://web.wtez.net/t/w/tw57472/videos/imprezarollover.mpg[/url]
| KC | 06-07-2001 09:34 AM |
And for those who missed the replies...
It's not an Impreza. It's a Legacy
It's a member on the board.. Patrick Olsen.
He's now got antoher Legacy.
--KC
It's not an Impreza. It's a Legacy
It's a member on the board.. Patrick Olsen.
He's now got antoher Legacy.
--KC
| iceweazel | 06-07-2001 11:16 AM |
Hmm Pat needs some bars... Could have been uglier...
iw
iw
| WeRX | 06-07-2001 02:01 PM |
Wow, that's a bummer! I hope he didn't get hurt.
| MichiganRS | 06-07-2001 04:25 PM |
Now if that car had huge bars would it of prevented the rollover? Or if it was an inch lower,etc?
| adhowe70 | 06-07-2001 05:05 PM |
I think that's one of those fluke things that happens. Once you're off in the dirt, it easy to go over.
And the only type of bar that I'd be looking into after that would be a roll bar. Eek. Look at the roof cave on second impact.
And the only type of bar that I'd be looking into after that would be a roll bar. Eek. Look at the roof cave on second impact.
| iceweazel | 06-07-2001 07:42 PM |
(coughing I'm laughing so damn hard)
no, I meant ROLL BARS.. hehehe
:D
You track it, you pay the price occasionally.
and sometimes it because someone else is a moron.
iw
no, I meant ROLL BARS.. hehehe
:D
You track it, you pay the price occasionally.
and sometimes it because someone else is a moron.
iw
| Sidewinder | 06-07-2001 11:36 PM |
Thanks Dan_E,
That was the most fun I have had in ages!!!! I loved the 'Color' commentary, especially at the end. ;)
I guess that tuning the car to oversteer is not the fast way around, its the fast way to a new Legacy...
Seriously, I hope for the drivers sake the new one has a cage. Looked like a lot of fun, till he tipped over! :eek:
Good luck to all the wanna be road racers out there. :p
That was the most fun I have had in ages!!!! I loved the 'Color' commentary, especially at the end. ;)
I guess that tuning the car to oversteer is not the fast way around, its the fast way to a new Legacy...
Seriously, I hope for the drivers sake the new one has a cage. Looked like a lot of fun, till he tipped over! :eek:
Good luck to all the wanna be road racers out there. :p
| KC | 06-08-2001 04:44 AM |
I'm trying to find the pic of the crash. It wasn't that bad at all. The Legacy did a very good job at protecting the interior from damage.
To describe the roof... it only impacted about 3" down and about 1 foot back from the window line only in the front. Over the driver's head was still almost normal head height.
--kC
To describe the roof... it only impacted about 3" down and about 1 foot back from the window line only in the front. Over the driver's head was still almost normal head height.
--kC
| Patrick Olsen | 06-08-2001 08:50 AM |
No rollbar in the new one, no harnesses, no nuthin'. No need. I made my mistake and learned the hard lesson.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
| DLC | 06-08-2001 09:03 AM |
This is an old subject...
Somone please close this thread.
Somone please close this thread.
| mhj | 06-08-2001 09:06 AM |
what speed were you driving at? What suspension setup did you have?
It looks like the right thing to do there is to let it continue to spin so you don't hit the dirt sideways. Anyone else think so?
That's some scary stuff!
It looks like the right thing to do there is to let it continue to spin so you don't hit the dirt sideways. Anyone else think so?
That's some scary stuff!
| KC | 06-08-2001 10:16 AM |
Oh yeah, I forgot about that, he had a roll bar in the old one. :)
--KC
--KC
| efoo | 06-08-2001 10:31 AM |
KC, the car had no rollbar. I was there that day and helped Pat take his stuff out of the car before it was towed away.
Driving at anything faster than walking speed is inherently dangerous. Heck, I get almost as much of an adrenaline rush from Boston traffic on Storrow Drive as I do at Watkins Glen. :) We all just have to take it in stride, and learn from it.
-Edwin
ps: Yes, this topic should be closed. It has been beaten to death many times. I actually have a lot of respect for Pat for his willingness to release that video publically so we can all learn from it. If anything, he should have copyrighted it more plainly and collected fees from all those sites and driving schools that copied it!
[ June 08, 2001: Message edited by: efoo ]
Driving at anything faster than walking speed is inherently dangerous. Heck, I get almost as much of an adrenaline rush from Boston traffic on Storrow Drive as I do at Watkins Glen. :) We all just have to take it in stride, and learn from it.
-Edwin
ps: Yes, this topic should be closed. It has been beaten to death many times. I actually have a lot of respect for Pat for his willingness to release that video publically so we can all learn from it. If anything, he should have copyrighted it more plainly and collected fees from all those sites and driving schools that copied it!
[ June 08, 2001: Message edited by: efoo ]
| Patrick Olsen | 06-08-2001 06:54 PM |
The car had a stock 2.5GT suspension with an 18mm rear bar. I was running Kumho V700s. I think the real killer was the alignment - I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure I was running a typical auto-x alignment (didn't think I needed to change it for the track) with a bit of toe out in the rear. That made the rear more willing to come out, which I'm sure contributed to the wreck.
Pat
Pat
| KC | 08-26-2010 12:55 PM |
Happy 10th Anniversary Pat! :lol:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNsrcxkyBJA"]YouTube- Subaru Legacy Track Day Wreck[/ame]
--kC
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNsrcxkyBJA"]YouTube- Subaru Legacy Track Day Wreck[/ame]
--kC
| sniper1rfa | 08-26-2010 01:23 PM |
Should go back in time and buy a q-rack. Get that oversteer in check much faster. ;)
| Draken | 08-26-2010 01:25 PM |
[quote=KC;31710740]Happy 10th Anniversary Pat! :lol:
--kC[/quote]
Old man river gets a cookie for an excellent thread bump! :lol:
--kC[/quote]
Old man river gets a cookie for an excellent thread bump! :lol:
| Homemade WRX | 08-26-2010 01:36 PM |
hi-five for KC :lol:
much love Pat.
much love Pat.
| kieranlavin | 08-26-2010 09:29 PM |
The oversteer was caused not by car setup but by a clear fixation on the Porsche in front and a "want" by the driver to catch that Porsche. That was a VERY early turn-in for the uphill which obviously resulted in oversteer.
Driving your own line always works.
Glad Pat was able to walk away with minimal injuries. That video is what caused me to install a rollbar and proper safety equipment in my track car. I had an accident from the right seat as an instructor there 2 years ago coming down the downhill. Sucked.
Funny to see the quality of the audio and video from 10 years ago.
Driving your own line always works.
Glad Pat was able to walk away with minimal injuries. That video is what caused me to install a rollbar and proper safety equipment in my track car. I had an accident from the right seat as an instructor there 2 years ago coming down the downhill. Sucked.
Funny to see the quality of the audio and video from 10 years ago.
| KP | 08-26-2010 09:41 PM |
[quote=kieranlavin;31715939]Funny to see the quality of the audio and video from 10 years ago.[/quote]
That's exactly what I was thinking.
That's exactly what I was thinking.
| cessna152 | 08-26-2010 10:22 PM |
[quote=kieranlavin;31715939]The oversteer was caused not by car setup but by a clear fixation on the Porsche in front and a "want" by the driver to catch that Porsche. That was a VERY early turn-in for the uphill which obviously resulted in oversteer.
Driving your own line always works.
Glad Pat was able to walk away with minimal injuries. That video is what caused me to install a rollbar and proper safety equipment in my track car. I had an accident from the right seat as an instructor there 2 years ago coming down the downhill. Sucked.
Funny to see the quality of the audio and video from 10 years ago.[/quote]
+1
No disrespect to Pat. But this video taught me a lot a few years ago. My friend/instructor actually showed me this video when he noticed me "following" cars ahead of me. The lesson definitely sunk in and now I don't fixate on the car ahead of me.
Driving your own line always works.
Glad Pat was able to walk away with minimal injuries. That video is what caused me to install a rollbar and proper safety equipment in my track car. I had an accident from the right seat as an instructor there 2 years ago coming down the downhill. Sucked.
Funny to see the quality of the audio and video from 10 years ago.[/quote]
+1
No disrespect to Pat. But this video taught me a lot a few years ago. My friend/instructor actually showed me this video when he noticed me "following" cars ahead of me. The lesson definitely sunk in and now I don't fixate on the car ahead of me.
| jdblock | 08-26-2010 10:35 PM |
The problem was correcting the slide with counter steer. It gave the front more bite and pulled the car into the grass. Glad you were ok.
| REX8 | 08-26-2010 10:40 PM |
[quote=kieranlavin;31715939]The oversteer was caused not by car setup but by a clear fixation on the Porsche in front and a "want" by the driver to catch that Porsche. That was a VERY early turn-in for the uphill which obviously resulted in oversteer.
Driving your own line always works.
Glad Pat was able to walk away with minimal injuries. That video is what caused me to install a rollbar and proper safety equipment in my track car. I had an accident from the right seat as an instructor there 2 years ago coming down the downhill. Sucked.
Funny to see the quality of the audio and video from 10 years ago.[/quote]
Early turn-in doesn't "result in oversteer". Early turn-in, plus a heavy lift/steering input, etc. caused the car to set out like that.
There was certainly something in the driver input, combined with the suspension that got it coming around (too much rear bar with no front bar, too much rear toe, etc.).
However, a typical early turn-in in a Subaru will result in you off the OTHER side of the track.
Driving your own line always works.
Glad Pat was able to walk away with minimal injuries. That video is what caused me to install a rollbar and proper safety equipment in my track car. I had an accident from the right seat as an instructor there 2 years ago coming down the downhill. Sucked.
Funny to see the quality of the audio and video from 10 years ago.[/quote]
Early turn-in doesn't "result in oversteer". Early turn-in, plus a heavy lift/steering input, etc. caused the car to set out like that.
There was certainly something in the driver input, combined with the suspension that got it coming around (too much rear bar with no front bar, too much rear toe, etc.).
However, a typical early turn-in in a Subaru will result in you off the OTHER side of the track.
| rjrutzky | 08-26-2010 10:41 PM |
Joe Hindsight ran a 1:20 at Lime Rock last night. It was sweet.
| Robin2 | 08-26-2010 11:01 PM |
[quote=KC;31710740]Happy 10th Anniversary Pat! :lol:
--kC[/quote]
I remember that vid! this is the old School NASIOC.... the days when this site was still under 1000 registered.
--kC[/quote]
I remember that vid! this is the old School NASIOC.... the days when this site was still under 1000 registered.
| kfoote | 08-27-2010 09:31 AM |
I remember commenting on this on the COM board, before I owned a Subaru or stumbled upon this place.
Odd, I also just realized that I didn't run any COM events in 2000 or 2001.
Odd, I also just realized that I didn't run any COM events in 2000 or 2001.
| delongedoug | 08-27-2010 09:41 AM |
[quote=REX8;31716507]However, a typical early turn-in in a Subaru will result in you off the OTHER side of the track.[/quote]
Agreed. Slow catching the impending spin as well. This is a good lesson in how easily things can go wrong. I was quite conservative at the track day after my first spin. Once you're in the grass, it's just chance.
Agreed. Slow catching the impending spin as well. This is a good lesson in how easily things can go wrong. I was quite conservative at the track day after my first spin. Once you're in the grass, it's just chance.
| Snowphun | 08-27-2010 10:09 AM |
[quote=rjrutzky;31716521]Joe Hindsight ran a 1:20 at Lime Rock last night. It was sweet.[/quote]
In what? That's a rather leisurely pace.
In what? That's a rather leisurely pace.
| KC | 08-27-2010 10:13 AM |
Joe [B]hindsight[/B]... should abeen a clue. ;)
IOW, everyone thinks they know what happened, and each have their own revisionist history to the event.
--kC
IOW, everyone thinks they know what happened, and each have their own revisionist history to the event.
--kC
| Snowphun | 08-27-2010 11:27 AM |
That's still going way over my head. I may be slow, but I suspect it's not that clever.
In short, I'm still confused.
In short, I'm still confused.
| rjrutzky | 08-27-2010 12:02 PM |
[quote=Snowphun;31720320]That's still going way over my head. I may be slow, but I suspect it's not that clever.
In short, I'm still confused.[/quote]
[url]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hindsight[/url]
[url]http://www.yourdictionary.com/monday-morning-quarterback[/url]
[url]http://www.thefreedictionary.com/20-20+hindsight[/url]
In short, I'm still confused.[/quote]
[url]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hindsight[/url]
[url]http://www.yourdictionary.com/monday-morning-quarterback[/url]
[url]http://www.thefreedictionary.com/20-20+hindsight[/url]
| subielife | 08-27-2010 12:41 PM |
[quote=kieranlavin;31715939]The oversteer was caused not by car setup but by a clear fixation on the Porsche in front and a "want" by the driver to catch that Porsche. That was a VERY early turn-in for the uphill which obviously resulted in oversteer.
Driving your own line always works.
Glad Pat was able to walk away with minimal injuries. That video is what caused me to install a rollbar and proper safety equipment in my track car. I had an accident from the right seat as an instructor there 2 years ago coming down the downhill. Sucked.
Funny to see the quality of the audio and video from 10 years ago.[/quote]
wait a minute, your not supposed to follow what the car in front of you is doing. now i need to start all over again. :D
Driving your own line always works.
Glad Pat was able to walk away with minimal injuries. That video is what caused me to install a rollbar and proper safety equipment in my track car. I had an accident from the right seat as an instructor there 2 years ago coming down the downhill. Sucked.
Funny to see the quality of the audio and video from 10 years ago.[/quote]
wait a minute, your not supposed to follow what the car in front of you is doing. now i need to start all over again. :D
| Snowphun | 08-27-2010 12:58 PM |
[quote=rjrutzky;31720682][url]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hindsight[/url]
[url]http://www.yourdictionary.com/monday-morning-quarterback[/url]
[url]http://www.thefreedictionary.com/20-20+hindsight[/url][/quote]
Got it, I was hoping there was more as "Joe Hindsight" isn't terribly clever.
Carry on. :)
[url]http://www.yourdictionary.com/monday-morning-quarterback[/url]
[url]http://www.thefreedictionary.com/20-20+hindsight[/url][/quote]
Got it, I was hoping there was more as "Joe Hindsight" isn't terribly clever.
Carry on. :)
| kieranlavin | 08-27-2010 01:11 PM |
[quote=subielife;31721074]wait a minute, your not supposed to follow what the car in front of you is doing. now i need to start all over again. :D[/quote]
shouldn't you be planning... or something?
Back to my point, to simplify my point, it was more a case of fixation than it was a case of car setup. As always, my opinion (isn't EVERYTHING you read on a forum anyway?) because my hindsight, foresight, and everysight is not-so-good
shouldn't you be planning... or something?
Back to my point, to simplify my point, it was more a case of fixation than it was a case of car setup. As always, my opinion (isn't EVERYTHING you read on a forum anyway?) because my hindsight, foresight, and everysight is not-so-good
| subielife | 08-27-2010 02:17 PM |
all the plans are made, i am just an accesory at this point
| Patrick Olsen | 08-29-2010 08:34 PM |
[quote=KC;31710740]Happy 10th Anniversary Pat! :lol:
--kC[/quote]
You suck, you d-bag.
[quote=kieranlavin;31715939]The oversteer was caused not by car setup but by a clear fixation on the Porsche in front and a "want" by the driver to catch that Porsche. That was a VERY early turn-in for the uphill which obviously resulted in oversteer.[/quote]
This was all beaten to death 10 years ago, but that's not really what the problem was. I was definitely early apexing the corner, but no more so than I had on my previous laps. The problem was it the first real clear lap of the session, and I thought I remembered taking the corner flat the last time I was there. (a) I remembered incorrectly, and (b) I shouldn't have assumed I could do the same thing just because I did it the last time (if, in fact, I had been able to do it the last time). Rookie mistake - I was inexperienced (3rd track event, 2nd at LRP) and stupid. I didn't have an instructor because I had been to the track previously (at which event I had had about 2 or 3 laps of "instruction").
[quote=kieranlavin;31715939]Funny to see the quality of the audio and video from 10 years ago.[/quote]
Really it's more a testament to the crappy video capture software I had at the time, and the bandwidth limitations of the day. Today I post 50+MB videos of multiple laps without even thinking about it; 10 years ago, posting a 5.7MB file was about all a dial-up user could stand. I imagine if I recaptured it today, even just using Windows Movie Maker, it would be quite a bit better. But anyway...
[quote=jdblock;31716452]The problem was correcting the slide with counter steer. It gave the front more bite and pulled the car into the grass. Glad you were ok.[/quote]
:confused: If anything the problem was that I didn't countersteer enough or quickly enough.
--kC[/quote]
You suck, you d-bag.
[quote=kieranlavin;31715939]The oversteer was caused not by car setup but by a clear fixation on the Porsche in front and a "want" by the driver to catch that Porsche. That was a VERY early turn-in for the uphill which obviously resulted in oversteer.[/quote]
This was all beaten to death 10 years ago, but that's not really what the problem was. I was definitely early apexing the corner, but no more so than I had on my previous laps. The problem was it the first real clear lap of the session, and I thought I remembered taking the corner flat the last time I was there. (a) I remembered incorrectly, and (b) I shouldn't have assumed I could do the same thing just because I did it the last time (if, in fact, I had been able to do it the last time). Rookie mistake - I was inexperienced (3rd track event, 2nd at LRP) and stupid. I didn't have an instructor because I had been to the track previously (at which event I had had about 2 or 3 laps of "instruction").
[quote=kieranlavin;31715939]Funny to see the quality of the audio and video from 10 years ago.[/quote]
Really it's more a testament to the crappy video capture software I had at the time, and the bandwidth limitations of the day. Today I post 50+MB videos of multiple laps without even thinking about it; 10 years ago, posting a 5.7MB file was about all a dial-up user could stand. I imagine if I recaptured it today, even just using Windows Movie Maker, it would be quite a bit better. But anyway...
[quote=jdblock;31716452]The problem was correcting the slide with counter steer. It gave the front more bite and pulled the car into the grass. Glad you were ok.[/quote]
:confused: If anything the problem was that I didn't countersteer enough or quickly enough.
| jdblock | 08-29-2010 09:40 PM |
Ask any instructor on what to do in a spin. Then ask another one too. Then ask them why that (what they say) is done.
[url]http://home.pon.net/hunnicutt/perfdriv.htm[/url]
Look at skid control third paragraph." When you regain traction..."
[url]http://home.pon.net/hunnicutt/perfdriv.htm[/url]
Look at skid control third paragraph." When you regain traction..."
| KC | 08-30-2010 07:10 AM |
[quote=Patrick Olsen;31737696]You suck, you d-bag.[/quote]Hey... the fact that 10 years have gone by and you're still calling me a d-bag... I feel all warm and fuzzy inside! :lol:
:)
--kC
:)
--kC
| Rokkit | 08-30-2010 08:25 AM |
[quote=jdblock;31738204]Ask any instructor on what to do in a spin. Then ask another one too. Then ask them why that (what they say) is done.
[url]http://home.pon.net/hunnicutt/perfdriv.htm[/url]
Look at skid control third paragraph." When you regain traction..."[/quote]
sigh... You make me sad
[url]http://home.pon.net/hunnicutt/perfdriv.htm[/url]
Look at skid control third paragraph." When you regain traction..."[/quote]
sigh... You make me sad
| mav1c | 08-30-2010 09:08 AM |
And today you're tracking a CTS-V that you have to pop start. You've come so far! :lol:
| krauser2 | 08-30-2010 09:19 AM |
I love the end....****!!!!!!
| delongedoug | 08-30-2010 09:38 AM |
[quote=Patrick Olsen;31737696]You suck, you d-bag.
This was all beaten to death 10 years ago, but that's not really what the problem was. I was definitely [B][COLOR="Red"]early apexing [/COLOR][/B]the corner, but no more so than I had on my previous laps. The problem was it the first real clear lap of the session, and I thought I remember taking the corner flat the last time I was there. (a) I remembered incorrectly, and (b) I shouldn't have assumed I could do the same thing just because I did it the last time (if, in fact, I had been able to do it the last time). Rookie mistake - I was inexperienced (3rd track event, 2nd at LRP) and stupid. I didn't have an instructor because I had been to the track previously (at which event I had had about 2 or 3 laps of "instruction").
Really it's more a testament to the crappy video capture software I had at the time, and the bandwidth limitations of the day. Today I post 50+MB videos of multiple laps without even thinking about it; 10 years ago, posting a 5.7MB file was about all a dial-up user could stand. I imagine if I recaptured it today, even just using Windows Movie Maker, it would be quite a bit better. But anyway...
:confused: If anything the problem was that I [B][COLOR="red"]didn't countersteer enough or quickly enough[/COLOR][/B].[/quote]
Old news is old, but these are the take-home facts that caused the incident.
This was all beaten to death 10 years ago, but that's not really what the problem was. I was definitely [B][COLOR="Red"]early apexing [/COLOR][/B]the corner, but no more so than I had on my previous laps. The problem was it the first real clear lap of the session, and I thought I remember taking the corner flat the last time I was there. (a) I remembered incorrectly, and (b) I shouldn't have assumed I could do the same thing just because I did it the last time (if, in fact, I had been able to do it the last time). Rookie mistake - I was inexperienced (3rd track event, 2nd at LRP) and stupid. I didn't have an instructor because I had been to the track previously (at which event I had had about 2 or 3 laps of "instruction").
Really it's more a testament to the crappy video capture software I had at the time, and the bandwidth limitations of the day. Today I post 50+MB videos of multiple laps without even thinking about it; 10 years ago, posting a 5.7MB file was about all a dial-up user could stand. I imagine if I recaptured it today, even just using Windows Movie Maker, it would be quite a bit better. But anyway...
:confused: If anything the problem was that I [B][COLOR="red"]didn't countersteer enough or quickly enough[/COLOR][/B].[/quote]
Old news is old, but these are the take-home facts that caused the incident.
| jdblock | 08-30-2010 10:52 AM |
Apexing early may have gotten you to slide, but not locking your brakes is what made you come back into the infield.
I just had a slide at close to 100 mph last weekend. I kept the steering wheel straight, rolled off the gas (to only stop accelerating, but not enough to transfer all the weight over the front tires), and waited for a spin that never happened. If at any time I started to look out my side windows I would of known I was spinning (I was waiting for the spin) and I would have locked my brakes. The car slowed enough that a little fick of the steering wheel is what made it go back in line.
I've had plenty of seat time drifting cars (before initial d). Counter steering only works if you can predict the slide. And even then it takes seat time to know how much and what throttle input to apply also. My cones were parking lot obsticles (curbs, islands, street lights, painted lines), and a gravel truckyard I used to work at.
Your accident happened very quickly, and instinct took over. Are you to blame? No. You admitted yourself that you were a relatively fresh driver. It was a horrible accident. But after ten years you think that counter steering would of saved you. When in reality it could of just as easily put you off the track on the left side instead.
I'm done trying to dispell this reasoning.
I just had a slide at close to 100 mph last weekend. I kept the steering wheel straight, rolled off the gas (to only stop accelerating, but not enough to transfer all the weight over the front tires), and waited for a spin that never happened. If at any time I started to look out my side windows I would of known I was spinning (I was waiting for the spin) and I would have locked my brakes. The car slowed enough that a little fick of the steering wheel is what made it go back in line.
I've had plenty of seat time drifting cars (before initial d). Counter steering only works if you can predict the slide. And even then it takes seat time to know how much and what throttle input to apply also. My cones were parking lot obsticles (curbs, islands, street lights, painted lines), and a gravel truckyard I used to work at.
Your accident happened very quickly, and instinct took over. Are you to blame? No. You admitted yourself that you were a relatively fresh driver. It was a horrible accident. But after ten years you think that counter steering would of saved you. When in reality it could of just as easily put you off the track on the left side instead.
I'm done trying to dispell this reasoning.
| delongedoug | 08-30-2010 11:17 AM |
You have good points. If he counter steered and the tires suddenly got grip, he would have been whipped back to the left hand guardrail, which is [U]right there[/U] at Lime Rock. No grass on that side. Basically, you're saying to let the spin happen naturally, which is what they teach you but is easier said than done in the split second panic of a track-speed spin.
| Patrick Olsen | 08-30-2010 05:39 PM |
[quote=jdblock;31738204]Ask any instructor on what to do in a spin. Then ask another one too. Then ask them why that (what they say) is done.
[url]http://home.pon.net/hunnicutt/perfdriv.htm[/url]
Look at skid control third paragraph." When you regain traction..."[/quote]
Can you save me the time and just tell me what you think the answer is?
[quote=jdblock;31741806]Apexing early may have gotten you to slide, but not locking your brakes is what made you come back into the infield.[/quote]
Actually, I was both feet in, but nice try.
[quote=delongedoug;31741107]Old news is old, but these are the take-home facts that caused the incident.[/quote]
I agree with you on the second one, but the first one doesn't make sense. I had driven that corner with that same line repeatedly. Trying to slow the car mid-corner is what caused the car to get loose. If I had used the same driver inputs on a later line I would still have gotten loose.
[quote=jdblock;31741806]Counter steering only works if you can predict the slide.[/quote]
Which is why I said I didn't countersteer quickly enough.
[quote=jdblock;31741806]And even then it takes seat time to know how much and what throttle input to apply also.[/quote]
It doesn't take much seat time to know how much throttle to apply in a 165hp AWD car on R-compounds on dry asphalt - all of it. Unfortunately, I didn't apply any of it. If I had gotten on the gas as soon as I felt the rear get loose I'd be willing to bet this video would never have existed.
[quote=jdblock;31741806]Your accident happened very quickly, and instinct took over. Are you to blame? No.[/quote]
When I find that sonuvabitch who [I]is [/I]to blame I'm gonna kill him!!! :mad:
[url]http://home.pon.net/hunnicutt/perfdriv.htm[/url]
Look at skid control third paragraph." When you regain traction..."[/quote]
Can you save me the time and just tell me what you think the answer is?
[quote=jdblock;31741806]Apexing early may have gotten you to slide, but not locking your brakes is what made you come back into the infield.[/quote]
Actually, I was both feet in, but nice try.
[quote=delongedoug;31741107]Old news is old, but these are the take-home facts that caused the incident.[/quote]
I agree with you on the second one, but the first one doesn't make sense. I had driven that corner with that same line repeatedly. Trying to slow the car mid-corner is what caused the car to get loose. If I had used the same driver inputs on a later line I would still have gotten loose.
[quote=jdblock;31741806]Counter steering only works if you can predict the slide.[/quote]
Which is why I said I didn't countersteer quickly enough.
[quote=jdblock;31741806]And even then it takes seat time to know how much and what throttle input to apply also.[/quote]
It doesn't take much seat time to know how much throttle to apply in a 165hp AWD car on R-compounds on dry asphalt - all of it. Unfortunately, I didn't apply any of it. If I had gotten on the gas as soon as I felt the rear get loose I'd be willing to bet this video would never have existed.
[quote=jdblock;31741806]Your accident happened very quickly, and instinct took over. Are you to blame? No.[/quote]
When I find that sonuvabitch who [I]is [/I]to blame I'm gonna kill him!!! :mad:
| KC | 08-30-2010 07:21 PM |
[quote=Patrick Olsen;31746330]When I find that sonuvabitch who [I]is [/I]to blame I'm gonna kill him!!! :mad:[/quote]
:lol: :lol:
--kC
:lol: :lol:
--kC
| Draken | 08-30-2010 07:21 PM |
Criminy. The internetz are great. So many experts.
| Jard | 08-30-2010 07:54 PM |
You should have not wrecked.
| Rokkit | 08-30-2010 08:09 PM |
[quote=Patrick Olsen;31746330]When I find that sonuvabitch who [I]is [/I]to blame I'm gonna kill him!!! :mad:[/quote]
Awesome :)
Awesome :)
| jdblock | 08-30-2010 08:53 PM |
Glad you're ok buddy. Honestly, I must of watched this video 50 times in the past. And even after that many times it is hard to say what happened. Very well could of been dirty air from the wake coming off the Porsche.
And I agree, "ahh kcuf".
And I agree, "ahh kcuf".
| Rokkit | 08-31-2010 08:35 AM |
[quote=jdblock;31748147]Glad you're ok buddy. Honestly, I must of watched this video 50 times in the past. And even after that many times it is hard to say what happened. Very well could of been dirty air from the wake coming off the Porsche.
And I agree, "ahh kcuf".[/quote]
Dirty air coming off the Porsche... come on man. It's a freaking stock leggy not an F1 car.
And I agree, "ahh kcuf".[/quote]
Dirty air coming off the Porsche... come on man. It's a freaking stock leggy not an F1 car.
| delongedoug | 08-31-2010 09:25 AM |
:lol::lol: @ "dirty air"
| jdblock | 08-31-2010 11:59 AM |
[quote=delongedoug;31751914]:lol::lol: @ "dirty air"[/quote]
Glad someone got it was a joke.
Glad someone got it was a joke.
| b4wantab | 08-31-2010 01:04 PM |
So Happy 10th turned into a dissertation. God I love the net.
Anyway, Pat don't know you, but happy 10th. Glad to see you are still here.
Lend me some money and I will buy you a beer to celebrate.
Peace,
Greg
Anyway, Pat don't know you, but happy 10th. Glad to see you are still here.
Lend me some money and I will buy you a beer to celebrate.
Peace,
Greg
| turboICE | 08-31-2010 01:59 PM |
[quote=Patrick Olsen;31746330]Trying to slow the car mid-corner is what caused the car to get loose.[/quote]
QFT.
The early turn-in at increasing speed didn't cause the mishap, it was the response that most everyone who is starting out with performance driving makes - the lifting sent it around. I have to tell students not to lift more times than any other correction.
Now the barrier is close on drivers left there, but assuming that the early turn-in and the speed were in fact too great to complete the turn without incident, it is likely that the car would have side swiped the barrier rather than anything worse.
The last turn on Thunderbolt has eaten a ton of Corvettes and Ferraris from people lifting and hitting the barriers head-on on driver's right rather than maintaining throttle and at worse getting the car a little dusty going off on the left.
Maintaining throttle mid-corner is almost universally the best response no matter how much you think you are going too fast for a turn.
QFT.
The early turn-in at increasing speed didn't cause the mishap, it was the response that most everyone who is starting out with performance driving makes - the lifting sent it around. I have to tell students not to lift more times than any other correction.
Now the barrier is close on drivers left there, but assuming that the early turn-in and the speed were in fact too great to complete the turn without incident, it is likely that the car would have side swiped the barrier rather than anything worse.
The last turn on Thunderbolt has eaten a ton of Corvettes and Ferraris from people lifting and hitting the barriers head-on on driver's right rather than maintaining throttle and at worse getting the car a little dusty going off on the left.
Maintaining throttle mid-corner is almost universally the best response no matter how much you think you are going too fast for a turn.
| turboICE | 08-31-2010 02:02 PM |
[quote=Patrick Olsen;31746330]When I find that sonuvabitch who [I]is [/I]to blame I'm gonna kill him!!! :mad:[/quote]
LOL.
But in all seriousness you should have had an instructor still.
LOL.
But in all seriousness you should have had an instructor still.
| eviltuna7 | 08-31-2010 04:27 PM |
[quote=turboICE;31754517]
The last turn on Thunderbolt has eaten a ton of Corvettes and Ferraris from people lifting and hitting the barriers head-on on driver's right rather than maintaining throttle and at worse getting the car a little dusty going off on the left.
Maintaining throttle mid-corner is almost universally the best response no matter how much you think you are going too fast for a turn.[/quote]
Yea that turn is a clencher :lol: It always feels like you're going in too hot but the extra grip is there from the banking.
The last turn on Thunderbolt has eaten a ton of Corvettes and Ferraris from people lifting and hitting the barriers head-on on driver's right rather than maintaining throttle and at worse getting the car a little dusty going off on the left.
Maintaining throttle mid-corner is almost universally the best response no matter how much you think you are going too fast for a turn.[/quote]
Yea that turn is a clencher :lol: It always feels like you're going in too hot but the extra grip is there from the banking.
| sachilles | 09-01-2010 12:58 PM |
Any before and after pic's of the car available?
| kieranlavin | 09-02-2010 08:56 PM |
[quote=turboICE;31754517]The last turn on Thunderbolt...at worse getting the car a little dusty going off on the left.[/quote]
Was riding shotgun in a fellow instructors car in wet, low 40s there and we spun right off there on the left.
[quote]Maintaining throttle mid-corner is almost universally the best response no matter how much you think you are going too fast for a turn.[/quote]
Something like [I]better to enter a corner slow and exit fast than to enter fast and exit dead[/I]
[quote=eviltuna7;31756498]extra grip is there from the banking.[/quote]
I hate that banking and would rather just simply avoid it. You don't really gain much by using it and it has the potential to upset the car big time
[quote=sachilles;31765209]Any before and after pic's of the car available?[/quote]
I don't think there were cameras way back then
Was riding shotgun in a fellow instructors car in wet, low 40s there and we spun right off there on the left.
[quote]Maintaining throttle mid-corner is almost universally the best response no matter how much you think you are going too fast for a turn.[/quote]
Something like [I]better to enter a corner slow and exit fast than to enter fast and exit dead[/I]
[quote=eviltuna7;31756498]extra grip is there from the banking.[/quote]
I hate that banking and would rather just simply avoid it. You don't really gain much by using it and it has the potential to upset the car big time
[quote=sachilles;31765209]Any before and after pic's of the car available?[/quote]
I don't think there were cameras way back then
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